How WWII soldiers carried & shot their weapons
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- čas přidán 7. 01. 2024
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I dont understand why people dont understand that it isn't just firearms tech that has drastically evolved over the past 100 years. Firearm safety, handling techniques, and how firearms are used in general have really changed over the years.
Pistols are mechanically, basically the same since the 1911, the only real difference is turning into double stack 9mm, and being made of polymer, but shooting styles have changed drastically.
@@alexisborden3191 But back then everyone trained to fire it one handed, and the obsession with keeping your finger off the trigger was not a thing until the 1990s.
Yah. Tech and technique
@@huntclanhunt9697nah. Finger off the trigger has beef around longer than that.
Who is a famous picture from world war one of Val Browning, son of John Moses Browning, posing with his father’s creation, the BAR, with his finger curled around the trigger. He’s not just about to fire.
So, while such gun safety may have existed before the 90s, it wasn’t much before, and it is relatively new.
An M1 Garand is substantially heavier and longer than an M4. Carrying it at the modern low ready all the time would wear a soldier out.
Which means the position will reappear with the M-7.
@@orlock20 lol!! Well see...
Snipers and lmg gunners are a good example of your point in modern day.
I mean its not even that it has to dp with their designs the way your gonna hold a weapon like an m4 with a pistol grip is gonna naturally allow your arm to rest down, compared to a rifle without one that sorta forces it out to be comfortable
@@orlock20 tbh It would entirely surprise me.
True! Taught to shoot by my father, a wwii, Korea vet and Drill Sgt. at a point in his career. “Get that elbow UP!!!”
👍
dude's dreaming with the M1 Garand
What was the reason for this back then?
@@edwardliu111 looking at another reply and doing a bit of research, putting your elbow up in that chicken wing makes a sort of pocket in your shoulder that the stock fits into, adding stability. American soldiers back then were trained to focus more on marksmanship.
@@edwardliu111 Plus: supposedly firms the shoulder where the rifle butt will go. Minus: makes the forearm/elbow a better target.
Fun fact: in Poland "chicken wing" is called "cold elbow".
True
The chicken wing is actually the correct way to shoot traditional rifles. Back then the stocks were made out of wood, and non adjustable, this meant that if you weren’t the exact size for the rifle, you had to use the chicken wing.
("Sgt.J."). " I, Noticed that The 70's. And, 80, 90's Marines seemed to be trained that way. After Seeing the Result of an Ak-47 injury Caused the Amputation of a Guy's Arm. I, Tuck in.
Chicken winging is also to "blade" your body towards downrange to make yourself a narrower target. Today we stand square to the target to have our armor plate over our vital organs. This is what I was told in basic training in 2006.
@@danielescobar7618squaring up to the target makes armor better at protecting and absorbing also, great stuff
@@koimananana absolutely. Back in my day. Not everyone who carried a weapon got armor so preliminary training was both ways for "if you have armor on"
This is true for everybody reading it... The chicken wing is not a bad way to shoot a rifle!! In fact, when studies have been done, it has shown time and time again that it's almost negligible the difference it provides... But... And the changing world rifles have gotten shorter, lighter and more adjustable for every person. So the chicken wing wasn't really phased out... It was just kind of... No longer needed
When I joined the Army in 1980. We were taught old school. Chicken wing and all. We didn’t have vests or the body armor they do today. We did have flack vests which we rarely wore. The chicken wing was for marksmanship. It formed a pocket in the shoulder for the Butt-stock to be placed. I was in a position to raise the rifle up to the face so the head didn’t have to come down to the rifle. We also stood sideways to the target not square on to it. We carried our rifles at a port arms ready position in the field or on a road march. Some of us learned quick kill techniques of snapping the rifle into a shooting position but not using the sights, but looking over them pivoting our bodies to the target and shooting instinctively. This was accurate at short range around 50 meters. Is the way people shoot now better? Yes, no maybe. For the gear used yes, but with an M1 Garand M14 or the M16 with no body armor, perhaps not. When I shoot today I still shoot the way I was trained. And can still hit targets over 300 meters with iron sights. Or shoot fast at short range. If I shot with body armor, I would probably shoot squared off too. But I don’t have any so I don’t feel the need to. As for saying perhaps chicken wing gives your opponent a target to shoot at. Yes, if it’s sticking out from behind cover. But if I’m standing in the open for some stupid reason, my opponent will should be aiming center mass, not at my arm. My body is more likely to be hit than my arm. Unless it was trucked in tight to my body. Squaring off without body armor creates a bigger target. Shooting from the side creates a smaller target and your non firing arm is held under the rifle inline with your body. It’s more likely to take a round than your body. Or at least protecting your heart and lungs.
ye i taght mysellf how to aim down the barrel instead of aiming open sited guns
This is all true except the body armor part, the pasgt helmet was standard issue in the early 1980's, the pasgt vest was put to use in the mid 1980's as well, assuming you had a flak vest you would have had a pasgt helmet issued to you, or if you were something like a airborne soldier you would be issued a m1 helmet.
Bottom line,,, whatever.
As long as you can get rounds on target downrange, hold your weapon any way that suits you. Hitting your target is the most important thing.
I knew it was post Vietnam when we phased out the chicken wing. I know it was when we rejiggered our CQC and urban warfare training “probably in the 90s”.
Thank you for your service friendo.
Gotta love it when tacticool know-it-alls confuse the present with their perception of the past. Bravo sir
also a lot of clay shooters still use the "chicken wing". I'm pretty sure our grandfathers were smart enough to hold their gun whatever way worked best for them, especially those of them who had hunting experience prior to joining.
The Chicken Wing was taught as the correct method of firing in the standing unsupported position as late as 2006 in the Manual of Arms for the M4 and M16A4. Those tacticool folks should chew on that for a bit hah.
They can't read by default
Yup I was going to comment and say, I went though boot in 2012 and we had instructors talking about how they had just recently phased out the chicken wing.
We were also one of the last groups to train on iron sights in bootcamp
When I was in OSUT on Sand Hill at Fort Benning in 2000, they taught us to utilize the chicken wing during BRM. A few weeks later once we really started into combat infantry fighting techniques, one of the most common phrases you heard from our DS's was "tuck in that chicken wing! You wanna get it shot off?!?"
It disappeared all together once we began training in what they called "SWAT tactics" at the time. (Plates forward shooting and moving posture.)
Okay get your elbow shit off I don't care
Gotta love that people can be so passionate about something yet so fundamentally wrong when it comes to do their due diligence of research.
I know that I personally don't know wether this exact piece of information is correct or not. But I am also fairly certain that I can easily make a few quick google searches and find the old training manual that was in use 2006. I'm just too lazy to do that rn lol but my point is that one ought to naturally skeptical and fact check frequently. Because the reason to do so is not a complicated one. The more you fact check and learn how to verify information. The harder it'll be for strangers to spread misinformation.
As a Army vet serving from 2004-2013, we don't always carry a weapon as "trained". Even when deployed. When you're tired, hungry and hot AF. You don't care, as long as you're not getting shot at, it doesn't matter.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Agreed, thank you!
Marine infantry vet (Iraq) here. I can confirm this. Usually comes down to how well we are supplied with rest snd crayons.
Admin or cook?
@@nwj03a neither 31B military police
@@anthonyseal4087 MP= "I wish I was a blue cord!" 🤣🤣
Trigger discipline is also very different now as opposed to 1940’s. I was taught to shoot and maintain small arms by my dad, a WW2 vet, and I am a Vietnam vet. Muzzle control was uppermost, “ Don’t point that thing at anything you don’t want to destroy!” but you’ll often see clips or photos of WW2 and Vietnam vets with their fingers inside the trigger guard.
I see this all the time, people commenting on a historical photo complaining about their "trigger discipline," without realizing it didn't really become common practice until the 80s.
@@CaffeinePanda Glocks and similar guns with no traditional safety were the primary cause for the change in trigger discipline. SWAT type tactics like stacks for room clearing etc had some role in it too, but it was mainly Glocks.
OUTSTANDING POST! Ya nailed it my friend, the Marines taught us to 'KEEP YOUR FUCKING FINGER ON THAT FUCKING TRIGGER!'
@@dzapper7 I disagree. I started the police academy in 1986 and we carried revolvers. We were taught to keep the finger outside the trigger guard until we were ready to fire. It was "mainly Glocks."
Honestly it makes sense. In 1944 the firearms instructors for the troops would have been accustomed to heavy long rifles with small magazines. Totally different ballgame than a plastic M4
I'm an Army vet and I always say that only adult film stars worry about how they look when they shoot...
Good quote. I like it.
OUTSTANDING SOLDIER!
My favorite by far is the fact almost every photo of soldiers back then showed there was no such thing as trigger discipline yet
I was in throughout the '90's and trigger discipline wasn't a thing. Keeping only the pad of the tip of the finger on the trigger was the most important thing. Also I was taught the tea cup hold by a SF weapons SGT when I qualified on the M9 in El Salvador in '92.
@MN-Hillbilly It's true. I was in the Marines 89-93, and the only time I heard anybody tell me to keep my finger off the trigger (when I wasn't actively firing the weapon) was one time when a friend of mine and I took a Taurus 9mm he had bought to a range at the Ft. Ord army base. You could go there in your free time in civilian clothes and shoot personal firearms. The range officer (some old retired guy) came over at some point and said, "Hey, make sure you keep your finger off the trigger," and I was confused, lol. Up to then, I had basically been taught to keep the muzzle pointed downrange, and the only time they cared about trigger discipline was during "cease fire." But if it was okay to fire, and your muzzle discipline was good, then you were good.
The "chicken wing" makes a perfect pocket in the shoulder for the rifle butt. This was before modern light recoil rifles with adjustable sticks.
Shoot an 8mm Mauser, 303 British, 30.06, or especially a 7.63x54 Mosin all day and you will understand why they used the "chicken wing".
If it into the Mosin Nagant without chicken winging, but I’m the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of people will shoot better using the chicken wing with the rifles you described here, or any wood stock rifles for that matter imo
Shot a traditional grip 30-06 at the range and found out very quickly not to lower my arm after the first few shots. I was worried I’d break my clavicle 😢
I was taught the chicken wing in basic... but we also were not using body armor at that time. I still had the H harness during training
I’m glad someone is finally addressing this. People mishandling their rifles has irked me for a long time. And I’m not sure what you meant by “chicken wing”, but we were always taught to raise our elbow when firing the M1 or M14 rifles. This was supposed to ease the recoil a little, since you could use both arms to pull the rifle in tight to your shoulder. The M16 has very little recoil in comparison and the requirement was dropped.
Thanks for all you do.
"chicken winging" is a negative term coined for that method of shooting. It seems that shooting like that encourages your body to face the target side on, which in the time, probably was a good thing. But due to armor being standard issue, this makes armor ineffective
Thanks for that info.
I’ve been shooting long arms for 65 of my 75 years, and I couldn’t imaging firing on a target facing it head on, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
We’re talking about WW2 when firing your rifle with your left shoulder to the target was how it was done; and the assault position was walking forward, firing the rifle with the widest part of the butt clamped firmly under your arm a sort-of hip shooting, but with the rifle against your ribs.
@@macqnj107 yeah! it makes sense. always love details like that shown in media
Thanks to me not properly shouldering an M1 the gun range lost a light that day lol. I owned an AK for awhile & the Garand was definitely a different beast entirely. I was never properly trained or accurate, but I did notice a massive difference.
Even with the M16 having less recoil, the chicken wing was still common long after World War II into the early 80's at the very least, and at least taught for a while longer according to some. You can see a lot of photos from the Vietnam War of guys firing their M16 rifles with their arm sticking out in that chicken wing position.
Chicken winging is still taught for traditional pistol gripped rifles (not such as an AR 15 pistol grip, but the M1 which had the elongated nubbed stock grip). The biomechanics behind how your hand grasps contemporary grips and traditional stocks is different and you place and hold the rifle in the pocket of your shoulder differently. Lowering your elbow on a traditional stock might reduce some of the recoil, but it will HURT with full power charges.
i was also going to mention this, the relaxed shoulder also supports the stock of a rifle like the M4 and prevents it from sliding, compared to the M1 which kicks like a mule and has a lot of overall heft, the chicken wing can help brace for that backwards kick of a .306 being fired.
The phrase you're looking for is 'semi-pistol grip stock'.
@@jic1 no the phrase is still pistol grip. That is traditionally still how the difference between straight and angled stocks are referred in training manuals depicting weapons that came issued with both variants such as the Mosin. Though the technical difference is like complaining about calling a magazine a clip. Everyone understands what you mean.
@@mastoner20 Except if you had used the term 'semi-pistol grip stock', then a quarter of your comment wouldn't have been spent describing exactly which kind of stock you meant.
And now half the replies have been spent arguing semantics
It’s also very natural to carry a rifle that is mostly a straight piece of wood/iron at the waist/hip. Modern weapons are more comfortable to carry due to various grips and handles.
You still do the “chicken wing” to shoot classic rifle designs today
I love how realistic RDR2 was with their animations, as a former mountain lion, i can reassure this is how we kill our prey.
edit: this comment got posted on the wrong video lol
what?
@@ROACH_WATER yes.
@@meta_cross1099egg
Yea
Was not ready for that one lol
Marine trained in the woodland cammie era of the 90’s here…confirm that yes we were taught to keep that elbow up to create a “high pocket” for the buttstock to ride in. It didn’t go away that long ago.
Went though in 2012, and I'm not exactly sure when, but it had been phased out so recently our PMIs were talking about how some of us might have older brothers who were in who told us that was how it was done, but it's now different.
Edit: We were still doing it till at least 2006 apparently
@@Batchall_AcceptedBy 2015 gone, By 2020 practically unheard of, probably.
Does body armor affect that?
Would that eliminate the pocket in your shoulder and negate the benefit of any blading, which would expose the side of the body which isn't covered?
The never did an actual war generation
@@ronaldkonkoma4356Blading makes body armor almost useless. The armor is upfront.
My late grandfather served during the Korean War, where there wasn't terribly much difference in hardware and training between WWII and that time. I went shooting with him, once, and as I was firing the M1 I'd recently picked up from a gun show, he kept nudging my arm up into what was, when he was in the military, the correct shooting position. He explained it after I'd finished shooting, and now that's how I shoot the weapon any time I take it out to the range. I miss that old grouch. Thank you for posting this and reminding me of him!
I thought I was the only one who looked out for stuff like this. It always fascinated me how like trends and tactics how they have adapted over time.
The irony being that "chicken-winging" is actually relevant and a valid shooting stance when firing a larger bore rifle without a pistol grip. It's not a coincidence that shooting stances started changing when rifles that weren't .30 caliber battle rifles that also had pistol grips became the norm.
I always adore these old details, really helps you see the thousands of small ways warfare has changed over the years
As a someone who was a WWII reenactor in the 90s I must say I think you do a great job!!! It is good to see a younger generation taking an interest in WWII reenacting. Don't worry too much what ppl on the Internet say when they're trying to criticize & show their lack of knowledge, WWII tactics & fighting styles were very different from today & one who knows WWII can see that you take your impression seriously which is important to properly honor those veterans. I know there are much fewer of them now, than there were when I was a reenactor, but listening to them sharing their experiences was 1 of my favorite parts of doing the events ( living history & certain reenactments).
I’m pretty sure you can see this in Star Wars too. The first movie came out in 1977, but even the newer content shows people holding blasters with their elbows flared, matching the time the first movie was released in.
Thank you for keeping history alive
The worst thing is always "Never hold it by the mag, it'll jam the gun", no, that will happen with a modern gun, but in the 40s, stuff was built cheap, you gotta keep it shoved in all the time or it won't feed. (Yes, I do know you have a video about it already, but I thought I'd mention it before someone else who doesn't know you have a video on it does.)
What??!! But I thought stuff wasn't made like it used to be!?
I mean technically speaking I've never seen holding a rifle by the mag be a issue with a M4, in fact I am pretty sure there is photos with the old M16a4s taken during Iraq with us troops holding them by their mags so the argument in general seems kinda retarded.
@@jackbuendgen389it mean they arent technically wrong either way
Except with the Thompson. It had a rail that kept the mag in place.
Ur half right its really more on a gun by gun basis, really most modern rifles this shouldnt be an issue but some older weapons didnt habe a particularly tight fire for the mag so holding the mag as a grip or brace cpuld jostle it and increase the risk of a malfunction a decent amount, like a thompson or mp 40, more than likely perfectly fine but a ppsh or ppd no it actually could cause a miss feed tho with anything nothings 100 percent, its not a garrentee so ur gonna see dudes do it anyway for comfort
My grandfather was a world war two vet. that's how he taught me to shoot.
Thank you for paying attention to the details. It makes a lot of difference.
My father was a WWII Vet and served in the North African & European Theaters of Operation. He taught me how to deer hunt. The “Chicken Wing” hold was what he taught me and it has served me well on running deer out to about 200 meters. Always one shot and drop’em kills. As to the low-ready carry…yep it works pretty well when your weapon doesn’t weigh 10 to 20 effing pounds empty and has ergonomic features like pistol grips, adjustable butt stocks and the like. Modern military assault rifles lend themselves to low-ready carry. A3-03 Springfield, Garands, BARs and even Thompsons…not so much. Additionally, even if one was issued an M1-carbine, an M3 SMG or similar, everyone was taught in basic the “proper” ready carrying hold with the Garand or Springfield (think the USMC) and that translated over into lighter, handier weapons.
Everyone forgets that plate carriers changed the way a weapon was used.
Back during WW2 one had no armour, the chicken wing allows a soldier to stand in a more side-on position to reduce their silhouette slightly and assist in locking a stock into a neat pocket between the arm and shoulder. With plates it makes more sense to stand square on since the plates only protect the front and rear. Taking a round in the plate is the better choice for survival nowadays. Dropped elbows assist in bracing the stock against that flatter plate carrier while keeping the body square to the target.
I regularly shoot a bolt action to take small game, my elbow is up and out. It not only assists in keeping the rifle tucked beautifully against my shoulder, it allows for smoother bolt operation plus translates the same drill smoothly from a standing to kneeling to prone. Super important when zinging rabbits and rats at 50-100m, there's not much to aim at so good consistency is really helpful.
When the WWII reenactor doesn't do tactical reloads: 🤯
Chicken wing is usually used for higher recoiling weapons that don’t have a pistol grip
all this modern school of thought doesnt apply to the past (which is why the “heeerh they’re chicken winging!! thats bad!” argument is invalid) like just consider that we were still using round tipped rifle rounds in 1903 before adopting the pointed 30-06
yep the .30-03 was replaced by the .30-06
The comments about gripping the Magazine of an Mp40, STEN or Grease Gun were magnificent examples of modern armchair soldier comments.
Thank you. I'm a Ww2 USN reenactor/museum volunteer and it irks me when ppl assume the modern (or 'tacticool') way to carry is the way it was in the 40's. It also carries over to the way uniforms are worn.
Chicken wing is proper on old school rifles like the M1 Garand but not necessarily on modern pistol grip rifles like the M4
I appreciate your authenticity and how your dedication to the craft.
as a german i rly had to laugh to your shirt xD
ganz lustig, ja? 😂
One of my major gripes is the two handed firing of pistols. Also pistols at the ready with two hands like they're about to stack up and breach a door 😆
Definitely. Most WW II pistols were balanced for one handed shooting. US Army training films explicitly instructed troops the M1911 would be fired one handed by the guys likely to carry them because they were handing mortars, ammo boxes, and radios with their other hand.
Two-handed shooting was already one of techniques taught during WWII, so it's not exactly anachronistic, but yes the primary technique was one-handed shooting
Plus shooting one-handed is objectively cooler
@@czwarty7878they did the tea cup grip!
@@catocall7323 yes, it was also one of allowed techniques
Many Call of Duty "veterans" are quick to criticize when in fact they are so far out of line so as to be in another county. You are spot on.
They actually show era-accurate shooting positions in the game.
1) Chicken wing is the correct way because that’s how miniature toy soldiers shoot offhand.
2) Just use what works best for you.
Kid you are doing great while learning what these Vets truly gave us. USN SBU-022.
"USN SBU-022"
Does that mean you were in the submarines, please?
@@BriselanceGoogle it then you can see and hear for yourself. Special Boat Unit 022. 😎
Also most people don’t realize the chicken wing is how you shoot traditional stock rifles, gives you a nice shelf, ARs give you the option because you’re firing a pretty small cartridge. Don’t need much support.
Expound, because that sounds extremely stupid.
@@nwj03alol, I think he just made it up. Having shot both styles, and shotguns, I've never felt the need to chicken wing any firearm.
We're u get that info cause it's fkn st*pid
“Chicken wing” put a lot of bad guys in the ground.
You can't expect people who never served to understand these things
Well then maybe they shouldn't start talking this and that like they know what they're talking about
Can you talk about the M1 carbine?
No
@@BigSad49702 yes.
@@meta_cross1099maybe
It's like the M1 Garand, but for babies.
@@knightartorias4487 the M1 carbine has a box magazine, and the M1 Garand has clips that go in the top
Watch the tv series Combat. See how the character Caje carries his M1 Garand. He was taught this by Lee Marvin who was a Marine Combat veteran and guest starred in two of the series’ episodes.
Great short. We made sure to not have any modern carrying of weapons in the film we made.
I like how he completely destroyed the know-it-alls without being rude or snarky
Even today the proper way to shoot a weapon that's doesn't have a pistol grip is the chicken wing because of a magical thing called body mechanics.
You’re right…that doesn’t stop some people crying and whining about "poor shooting form" Becauee they just don’t understand it’s the proper way…..
I can tell it was made in 2023 because you still have your beard as opposed to your moustache in the last video. Also, I often hold my Denix M1 Carbine with the elbow sticking out and some of my friends keep telling me not to do it. But for me it's easier with the elbow out.
Keep sticking that elbow out, you
are doing it correctly! As stated in the video that is how the army trained everyone to do it, because with a traditional style stock that is the correct position and it exagerates the hollow in your shoulder for the butt of the rifle to sit in, having your elbow low is the correct position for today's pistol grip stocks. If your friends still tell you your wrong have them watch the training film "Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle."
Sorry, I meant M1A1 Carbine (Paratrooper version)
The garand doesn't have a pistol grip or collapsable stock, chicken wing is literally how you hold traditional stock rifles like that 😂
The chicken wing is the ideal way to shoulder a weapon with a traditional grip/stock
As a Vet, I ask you not to let some Vet bros get under your skin. Love your content man. My grand fathers faught in WWII, and appreciate the work you put in.
100% agree. I never knew the "chicken wing" was a real method. I was big on ww2 a while ago and despite seeing soooo many pictures I never picked up on it. I guess it just registered as something goofy since I've only been around modern rifles
I appreciate this im a fellow re-enacter but im a german lol
I just like work learning random World War II facts and I did not notice until today, so thank you very much
He's even got the thousand yard stare of a real soldier
You can definitely see it in earlier Medal of Honor and Call of Duty games too.
chicken wing is how traditional rifles are shot
The chicken wing was taught for the M4 and M16A2/4 up until 2006.
So this dude randomly pops up on my shorts feed & I’m instantly a fan. He’s done his homework & knows his stuff. I love seeing content like this.
In 1989 in US Army basic training, we were taught to fire the M16A1 with the "chicken wing" posture. If you let your elbow drop below parallel to the ground, you were doing push-ups until the Sergeant got tired.
The chicken wing position is a legitimately-taught position at least up to 1993.
Still learned the "chicken wing" in 2007 on M16A2s with iron sights in Basic, Ft. Knox then did it on M4A1s with red dots in AIT, Ft. Bragg
That "doing pushups till the Sergeant got tired" joke has got some *serious* hair growing on it. As a Sergeant, I actually said the same thing numerous occasions, to my chagrin. A variation was, "beat your face until I get tired." Another thing we liked to do was to count for them, and if they didn't have good form, not iterating the count: "1, 2, 2, 2..." What comes around goes around, as the saying says. If someone came up to me today and yelled, "Front-leaning Rest Position! MOVE!" I would be hard pressed not to have my fat ass face down on the floor.
Mind you, there may have been a few one offs where at least one person carried it in a way that would carry it like a "modern manner". Like Vietnam and the all the way up to the early 2000s where it was carried with the muzzle being pointed up.
The shirt and the last one is just the greatest thing I've ever seen in the past year except for one that Wahlberg had on lately.
The the “chicken wing” was still being taught when I went through basic in ‘73
My father was a US Marine veteran of WW II, he taught me to shoot an '06 using that "chicken wing" hold and had a reason for each element of the hold. The raised right elbow pulled the butt firmly into the shoulder, and kept the barrel from pitching down. The left arm had the sling firmly around the elbow and forearm in tension with the barrel. The elbow was directly below the forestock supporting the barrel. This kept the barrel more in line following a shot. Since he could put an entire magazine - five rounds - in a space that could be covered by a quarter, I am pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. The '06 is a heavy rifle, and you don't manage like an AR some later, light weapon.
Chicken winging was taught well into the ‘80s and ‘90s before modern Kevlar body armor was standard issue. By that point, we were issuing out flak jackets that could protect you from shrapnel but not bullets. From the ‘60s and prior, we were issuing out web gear that offered no protection from anything. So our troops were taught to blade their bodies to present themselves as smaller targets and to protect the vitals in their torso from incoming shrapnel and rounds, and the only way to effectively manage recoil like that is to chicken wing your rifle. You can especially notice this change in pistol handling, where troops were taught to shoot with their bodies completely bladed and one handed.
Nowadays, we have effective body armor so we’re taught to square our bodies off towards our enemy. We’re taught to c-clamp our handguard to effectively push our rifle back into our shoulder to manage recoil and to shoot with our elbow tucked into our side because getting shot in the plate is safer than in the elbow. We remain squared off with pistols and shoot with both hands to better manage recoil, and we have a slight bend in the knees to prevent falling backwards if shot, and slightly lean forward when shooting so bullet ricochet off the plate down into the ground and not up into our heads.
Non pistol gripped weapons should be chicken winged to be fired
With or without a pistol grip. The chicken wing forms a pocket for the rifle butt and raises the stock to the face. It’s how I was taught with the old M16A1 when I joined the army.
I’m 61, retired with 40 years metro police, and our issued sidearm was a 357 mag 686 S&W polished with +P+ 38 ammo & a 12 round leather ammo carrier with a Sam Browne gun belt cuff case PR-24 side handle baton, Boston Leather Slapper with a low ride widow maker gun holster. I noticed big changes from 1983 up to today, thus my father was in WW2 & grandfather WW1, and they were both metro cops, thus I noticed the changes in military equipment & law enforcement equipment throughput the years. We were always trained to count our rounds, shoot 2 then load 2 double action. I genuinely enjoy your videos, and notice the differences, the military fellas during WW1 & WW2 were always cleaning their weapons, this is something we were always trained to do as peace officers, however military truly required cleaning much more than civilian law enforcement.
I appreciate the historical accuracy of how hot he is...
Woww I’m gonna pay attention next time I watch a ww2 movie to see how they carried there guns to see if it’s accurate… thanks for the knowledge
Watch the TV show Combat or to Hell and Back. They’re all WWII/Korean War veterans
@@lemmdus2119thanks, i will watch them
i love re-enactors
Tbh I think they look pretty Awesome doing those movements, compared today 😅
In the early 70's that's exactly how the US Army taught us how to shoot the M16A1 - and we fired the HK G3 the same way when we qualified with NATO weapons in Germany. I guess out of habit, I still shoot my Mini-14 and my shotguns pretty much the same way. Works ok for me.
howdy
No way I was going to say that
Howdy!
Hey world war wisdom. I’m trying to make a ww2 us airborne Thompson gunner. Any tips?
It was also taught to "teacup" pistols. They were allowed to be wrong because they were figuring stuff out and stuff like body armor didn't exist yet. It doesn't really matter if you're shooting at deer but don't present limbs when being shot at.
You don’t “shoot” a weapon, you fire it.
This is one of the many things i noticed in "All Quiet on the Western Front". Apart from it being just a bad movie, the soldiers carry their guns in modern ways. All of the training manuals are readily available and they show exactly how the guns need to be carried. Why don't they put the 15 minutes of effort in to research this goes over my head.
I despise low porting for this exact reason, I’ve seen so many reenactors and movie characters doing it in WW2 and WW1 movies and it just looks so out of place. I hardly even do it when I’m holding modern rifles I hate it so much.
My grandfather would be honored that the way they carried out ground maneuvers is being used by reenactment
we were trained to 'chicken wing' when I served in the 80s.
The “chicken wing” is a natural stance for anyone shooting a rifle with a standard stock. Pistol grip rifles and machine guns are far better suited and easier to keep the elbow down. Watch WW2 footage of men shooting the Thompson or MP5 and it’s obvious.
As a Marine Corps veteran WWII was totally different back then. The weapons,gear,and theater required different methods. As long as they survived and won the day was all that mattered.
I joined the USMC in 1980. I retired from the Army National Guard in 2007. I noticed a plethora of changes in techniques and equipment during those years. It really aggravates me when I hear people criticize and talk bad about the older stuff. It just shows their historical ignorance. Times change. In my early days, at 5'6" & 125 lbs, carrying my M-60 took a bit more effort than it did others. I can appreciate the modern tactics, equipment, etc. But, when I see photos and watch videos of military operations from the past, I always wonder how much more miserable life was back then.
Let me tell you as an Army vet, 86-90, we pretty much carried our M-16s "WWII" style, when they weren't slung over our shoulders...
While way more effective, the "low ready" with the "cool guy sling" wasn't adopted until the GWOT, pretty much
I love this. I’m so tired of people complaining about “inaccuracies” in WWII movies
Love your videos. Just ignore the negative comments and keep doing what you're doing.
This is so bad among German reenactors. I got told I "wasn't on a hunting trip" for carrying my K98 with the stock tucked under my arm by a much more seasoned reenactor. He wasn't happy when later that night I pulled up about 30 photos of Germans carrying their rifles that way.
The “chicken wing” is actually correct when firing a long gun without a pistol grip. It doesn’t necessarily have to be very pronounced, but the elbow should definitely not be tucked in when firing a classic rifle with no pistol grip.
You're very right.
Oh man, this is really helpful to me as an actor too, thanks!
Holding your weapon at the waist is called “patrol ready”. My dad said that’s what they did on maneuvers through the bush in Vietnam.
the concept of modern tactics being employed during ww2 would be some awesome to watch shit.
The other thing to remember is that these were citizen soldiers. Everyday people who were called up or volunteered. Their level of firearms familiarity, training and commitment to that training would vary greatly. US citizens would have some chance of previous firearms training, but many British citizens may never have touched a gun before. So regardless of period specific training or doctrine, there would have been a range of ‘styles’ of firearms handling on display.
Grandpa seeing the funny CZcams guy reenact the worst day of his life
I’d just like to say to Worldwarwisdom that you are a sort of hero to me. I love your videos and what to explain in them and it is one of the things that sparked my large interest in WW2. Because of you I have spent countless hours scouring over textbooks and memoirs and writing essays about certain aspects of the war. Because of you I am hopin to one day become a professor in European history. Keep up the amazing work. I expect great things from you!
Kudos to you, man. I’m glad I’m not the only one that’s often thought about this. I’m by know means an expert, but I always figured things were done differently in those days. I always figured at least some of the old WWII flicks weren’t just making things up when it came to how soldiers carried things.
That's why some movies have technical consultants or historical consultants.👍 I can tell you, as a former Civil War re-enactor, you can learn an awful lot of practical knowledge by being "that soldier" from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon. Things were much different in the black powder era. Just think how much advancement there has been in automobiles and telephones in the last 20 or 30 years.🤔
Chicken wing was how I learned to shoot in the US Army in 1978.