Do Hand GUARDS on Star Wars LIGHTSABERS Make Sense?
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Do hand guards make sense on lightsabers in Star Wars? I argue yes, for a variety of reasons, some obvious, some less so! Sabers from Damiensaber (www.damiensabe...) & Nsabers (nsabers.com/)
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A disk guard seems like a great idea since a lightsaber doesn't need edge alignment.
Disk guards make sense, I have always worried about a Jedi's hand suddenly slipped forward and loses a couple of digits to the blade.....
Or a shell/3-4 bar guard like a lot of early modern sword.
I was just thinking that
@@omegabulldog5001 Keep in mind that in-universe, the Force isn't just magic that you can wield defensively and offensively, it also is an extreme increase in perception, spatial awareness, and coordination. The reason, in universe, why being able to use the force is deemed required for lightsaber use is precisely because the force makes these non-issues. It's maybe a bit handwaivey, but it's totally a thing.
Grievous, on the other hand, solved the same problem by using robotic limbs.
A small idea: A bent hilt, like Count Dooku uses, with a handguard... perhaps even going so far as to have a full basket hilt made of some sort of sabre resistant material, with connected knuckle guard. Imagine the flowery interpretations they could make in that universe, given how fancy some of those rapier style hilts were in our history. Imagine what they could look like in Star Wars canon, given the wide variety of histories and arts across different species....
Tbf even the most basic saber guard would look awesome AND be functional on dooku lightsaber. Like bests design period
Look up the Oppo Rancisis Lightsaber its exactly a curved saber like Dooku's but it has a guard. I want to see a replica of that made for sparring.
Yeah if it can stop a lightsaber then yes it would definitely. Also I love that Matt just went form 2 .
imho form 2 is in fact the superior form in practice, but the trouble is some of the later forms are all but impossible to test IRL with sliding blades an no magical powers :-( Someone skilled in form 4 would be a fun one to try against 2 though :-D Something a hema person might not encounter every day
@@shyzunk the thing is that unfortunately the lightsaber forms don't actually make any sense. Form 1 is just basics and focused on disarming instead of killing (and then changed and also became about fighting multiple opponents, then became basics that if you stick with it evolve into a more free form flexible style that can tempt you to the dark side, seems kinda contradictory to the disarm don't kill thing but who cares about consistency I guess.) Form 2 is literally just fencing bc Christopher Lee, so it makes sense in that it's literally just a real sword style but completely ignores how what style a sword gets used with is hugely influenced by the sword's physical properties, and don't get me started on how star wars does and doesn't think about lightsabers' physical properties. Form 3 is the defense only form. 4 is the acrobatic form which does actually make sense since like you said, magic jump powers, so yay for 4! Form 5 is the "even in universe we eventually realized not attacking is a nonsense style so we added the attacking back in" form, also since these forms were created after the movies were made and retroactively assigned to the characters, and 5 was the one they gave to Luke and Vader/Anakin, it's basically just the longsword kendo mix that was used as the basis for the original lightsaber choreography, so again it makes sense in isolation but both it and form 2 being styles used with the same weapon requires explanation that was never supplied. Form 6 is the a little bit of all the previous forms form. And form 7 is the grrr angy >:( form.
So yeah """""form 2""""" is the best one because it and 5 are the only ones that are actually sword fighting styles instead of gimmicks, and because the props people use are very light in weight so a one handed fencing style makes more sense than a 2 handed longsword like style. But if people sparred with props that were weighted more like a longsword or a katana, then I imagine """""form 5""""" would end up having the advantage over 2.
A thing I've always thought is that Jedi could use a lightsaber as a truncheon or Billy club when it's turned off. A hand guard, be it cross, disk, saber or knuckle bow, would make it an even better blunt object. That is a non lethal option for the more peaceful jedi.
Excactly! Perfect for crowd control and intimidating the civilians.
Even better, the hand guard contains the emitter for a small energy shield. Something like the Han Shield Guard Fencing Jian.
I think one of the things people often don't talk about is the fact that lightsabers were not used against other lightsabers most of the time, at least by the time the movies happened.The main combative use of sabers at the time was blocking blasters and cutting off the limbs of attackers. In that case, convenience is king - why put something on it that hasn't been particularly relevant in a thousand years? You'll be carrying that thing on you all the time, while sitting around and walking around and sleeping. Plus, for many force-users, there would be reasons you would want it concealed.
That being said, you absolutely should be seeing various guards in the old sabers - back when they were in wars all the time. And it would be really cool to see that as a sign of a Makashi specialist. (Also, there's a conversation about how utterly stupid the ways lightsabers are carried are in SW, but this isn't the time)
if you change your mind re the time lol, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on lightsaber carrying
We do actually see various guards in the High Republic Era. They just stopped making them so elaborate when they went to war against an enemy that used blasters and not lightsabers (plus just keeping costs down during wartime and all that, I guess). They just never went back to making fancy sabers after that (granted, the Sith were wiped out, so why plan to fight against another lightsaber user if there's only two at a time in the entire galaxy who were in hiding until Palpatine showed up?) and even started making even *more* utitlitarian sabers during the Clone Wars. Just look at the difference between Qui-gon and Obi-wan's sabers in Episode I and the ones used during the Clone Wars (and during the Original Trilogy). They went from something resembling a handle (albeit a hard, uncomfortable-looking one) to jagged scrappy-looking pipes with massive protrusions, lol 😅.
@@rylie8989 been thinking about this for the past week, but I've been too busy to sit down and check my memory. But it's a delightfully lazy Sunday so here we go.
Lightsabers are carried in one of two main ways, with the exception of smart people, who conceal their saber. You have the clip or the peg.
The Original Trilogy has people using the clip - it's just a D-ring (or similar) that hooks onto a little hook on their belt. Vader's one is more of a clip, with some degree of stabilization keeping it from moving too much. The problems with this method should be obvious the moment you watch them walk. You have this kinda heavy foot or so of metal, with pokey protrusions coming out of it. If a button on it is pressed, about three feet of blazing plasma extends, hot enough to annihilate anything which it touches. You then decide to hang it from a loop on your front left hip, maybe six inches from your crotch, and give it no structure which would stop it from flopping around. you do this because you didn't really like having genitalia anyway, and you'd prefer to have yours repeatedly smashed with a steel bar before getting accidentally vaporized.
The other method, used in the Prequels, is somewhat less pelvis-shatteringly stupid, but not by much. They instead have a peg built into the shaft, about two inches down from the butt. This peg, like any worthwhile peg, fits into a custom slot at their hips. You slip the peg into the slot and it clicks together, keeping your saber strapped to your hips. This is remarkably secure, because they were using the Covertech prop clips at the time of filming, and they're very well designed. For the purpose of making sure whatever your tool is stays on your belt. They still don't stop it from rotating, and because again, they keep their sabers front and to the left instead of actually on the side of their hip, it still can rotate and hit you in a sensitive area. It's not as dangerous as the Dick Smasher 3000 (qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d8e5b80763b216a2b71729b585a2ce71.webp) that Luke used, as it can't build up as much momentum, but it will pretty consistently be in a bad spot for you.
This combines with the fact that you have to squeeze on the clip with one hand while the other draws it means that drawing a saber is always a two-handed motion. A relatively smooth and consistent one, as it's a well-designed clip, but still.
What can be done instead? Well, Sidious's forearm holster is a goddamn delight, using the fact that you don't need much matter to still have a saber to make it easily concealed and easily carried. His right arm is a bit heavy, sure, but that's the best in-universe way of keeping a saber that I've seen. What would be better is a holster, probably a thigh one. This (i.etsystatic.com/12221297/r/il/b3d6a7/2118680480/il_570xN.2118680480_5l85.jpg) is holding an IRL sparring saber by the blade, but the same principal can be applied, if we still want to go low-profile. You just need two point of contact on the saber, and that thing will stay right where you want it. Still, it feels a little awkward, and not like we're the cowboy space wizard samurai that Lucas promised. Well, then there's a basic holster pouch, as designed and sold by this guy (www.etsy.com/listing/585958213/light-saber-y-drop-holder-pouch). That should hold quite nicely, and the loop should unclip easily and one-handed. It works, but it's still not... awesome yet. Then let's have a thigh holster that feels like a gunslinger Wild-West strap, but made for a lightsaber. czcams.com/video/hxyQid8Ndhw/video.htmlsi=qOEA7Gj9A9vEEIHp&t=998.
You could probably also fit it into a bandolier, or have a similar holster slung so it sit under your arm, like a Burmese Dha. I personally would want to try and find a way to strap it to the small of my back, so it would sit like a belt knife, easily concealed and easily drawn.
@@ellentheeducator Oh the d rings and clips and stuff lol, yes I totally agree haha! I always thought the prequel clip was so close but just off the mark of being a much better way, like you say the need to use two hands seems like a silly way to do it, I think the basic concept would be much better if it instead worked more similarly to modern holsters that just provides enough resistance through friction I guess, so that it won't come out on it's own but can be removed with one hand. Which I'm sure would also stop it from rotating too wildly. Concealed lightsabers and the cowboy inspired holsters are also very cool, I love swords so I'll always be drawn to ways that mimic drawing actual swords from their scabbards, but I still very much also enjoy explorations of where how lightsabers differ from swords can lead to. Thank you for sharing that, it was very fun to read through and think about!
I think the main reason is that most lightsaber users didn't really expect to fight other people with lightsabers and given how rare these clashes are, there was not enough of a pressure to upgrade the hilts to suit this. Another thing is, that unlike a steel sword, lightsaber is carried only as a hilt, which would mean that adding anything would significantly increase the weight and decrease ease of deployement and conceability, which are of much greater importance in 99.9% of cases.
Wonderful topic!💜 Hand guards make the most sense when fighting melee weapons that are Not lightsabers. Vibroblades, beskar swords, various melee weapons, all would slide down your lightsaber blade instead of locking together, because there isn't a 2nd kyber crystal that's mystically drawn to your own like a magnet.
We do see a knuckle bow on Porter Engle's lightsaber in the High Republic, who notably wields it with a Shoto (ala Rapier and Dagger).
This makes a lot of sense because the Jedi of the High Republic aren't fighting Sith, they're fighting pirates and marauders mostly bereft of the Force and using more conventional melee weapons. The particularly beautiful Crossguard design of Stellan Gios' lightsaber is also from this time period, as are many designs with hand protection.
Great video!
I do admit I always wondered why no Sith or Jedi decided to use Cortosis, a star wars material that was resistant to lightsaber blades, made Handguards on their sabers.
Because its exspense, jedi wanted to limit themselves (they probably used it at least once) and sith wanted to show off and be seen as powerful non cowerds so to speak
These are the esayest exsplanation
Is Cortosis still canon?
Frankly Disney seems to toss out anything on the fly as legends and then bring it back in just as easily lol.
@@shkotayd9749 ok then let's use Beskar as an example instead
@@JoyZofSoRRoW that also works by the Mandolorians might take exception to that xD
Cortosis works for me, but Disney keeps mucking up the waters on whats canon or not. What a mess.
Or beskar
As others have pointed out and Matt alluded to, lightsaber blades when they come in contact with each other do stick. It's called saberlocking. In the old Legends novels they talked about it a lot. Plus, with the amount of moving and jumping and flipping around in combat that force users do, I imagine hand openings are significantly less common than with longsword fencing where you're generally gonna be right in front of your opponent the whole time, but it would be cool to see handguards on them more. Dooku's saber specifically looks tailormade for a knuckle guard
Oppo Rancisis’ lightsaber for the Clone Wars would’ve been like Dooku’s but with a knuckle guard. The concept are is online. If the guard was actually made of a resistant material is unknown, but would provide protection from other things.
It was also made canon in the new Star Wars. Kanan Jarrus in Rebels points it out while training one of his companions that Lightsabers like to lock together due to the magnetic fields that are used to contain the plasma blades.
To add credibility to your point, early on Dooku supposedly took a particular interest in training saber vs saber combat, which was considered somewhat peculiar in a timeperiod lacking sith.
He more than any would have a design protecting from sabers. (With suitable material)
I was playing a FFG ttrpg game. I was playing a mandalorian that was joining up with the new jedi order. She used a vibro rapier before hand, so when she got her lightsaber she used the defensive build available. For aesthetics i did it as a beskar rapier hilt.
I remember Skallagrim's general opinion is that the lightsaber is guardless because it's supposed to be more of a utility item, like a pocket knife, and the combat forms only showed up centuries later. The utilitarian, easily stowed shape is kept, because the Jedi keep pretending that they're not a military order. A fun piece of worldbuilding in design.
What about the sith? Why wouldn't they have handguards?
@@shamshirbaaz Good question. I don't know Sith lore very well, but the ones in the main series seem to be big on secrecy, infiltrating the Jedi/Republic from within, so from that perspective, might make sense to use a low-profile weapon. Anakin/Vader would probably use the same style of saber because it's what he was used to. And of course, Kylo Ren is the one who finally introduces handguards.
@@acethesupervillain348 makes sense.
@@shamshirbaaz one simple reason might be tradition. A lot of assumptions are made based on the peaceful time during which you prepare and people change styles or technology only if they are absolutely forced to. If traditionally, a stealth weapon didn't have handguards and you train with such a weapon for situations of which 1% end up in a lightsaber duel, and you happen to do just fine with the traditional design, there may not be enough of a reason to innovate. Simple as. The lore emphasis on the sith being absolutely commited to their craft somewhat contradicts this but not completely.
I’d like to give some in-universe reasons for not having a guard while admitting it does actually make more sense to have one:
1) The blades DO stick to each other quite strongly, alluded-to by Matt.
2) What is not obvious in film but seen in Ahsoka and in books: the wielder is constantly using the force itself for parrying and protection so while this is not reflected in choreography, I would argue that it is as if this sword were being used with a briefly manifested shield at crucial moments, closing off certain lines (such as protecting the hand)
3) A force user is using a type of very short-term prescience ie mega-reflexes. Sniping the hand is not very viable. Perhaps this also gives a reason why complex flourishes done from muscle-memory are needed, to be less predictable.
4) Tradition: both Jedi and Sith are steeped in it and a lightsaber is as much a symbol as a weapon. Lightsabers are this way now because they were this way before.
5) The films etc show us the most exciting and violent bits of history, where people are fighting each other with lightsabers loads. But through the ages this would be rare and the vast majority of the time a lightsaber user is fighting non-force-users. So it’s more like a falchion in that respect, going though plebs like butter. It’s not designed for fighting other lightsabers and a better option for fighting force users is the force itself, directly. This was Darth Sidious’ opinion.
Plus (context ;) ):
1. A guard less saber might be slightly more faster/easier to deploy if one gets ambushed. Less chance of entangling in loose Jedi robes, no wrong way of gripping it
2. As Jedi should not be fighters, but peacekeepers, the sabers should basically always be dangling from the belt and not be used. And a cylindrical shape is even more low profile to wear.
Never heard if the Jedi Civil War or the Old Republic Era have you? There were a LOT of Sith v Jedi brawls.
@@Glimmlampe1982What about hilts with the same design principles as a rondel dagger, then? Still low profile, but more protected, AND now it’s easier to scoop up into your hand and keep it there!
@@farkasmactavish I'd answer with completely cantradicting points :D
for one, protectionwise rondel daggers offer not much, except in combination with gauntlets. plus sabers are often used two handed too, so disks on top and bottom would kind of interfere with that, wouldnt they?
and second, we kind of see stuff like that. there are sabers with disks (like Obi Wans and lukes), hand stopping protrutions (like the metal nubbin at Anakins hilt) and also pommels (lukes saber has a mace like pommel)
Glad you wrote this comment! Love the in lore reason for these things work! That’s why I believe lightsabers mostly didn’t have hand guard.
Matt, if you haven't seen it, take a look at Engle Porter's lightsaber. He's one of the new High Republic characters, and his lightsaber has a round, saber style knuckle guard that I think looks pretty spiffy. The long sword style cross guards are also more common in the High Republic lightsabers, which are more ornate in general, and they are much better implemented than Kylo Ren's wrist-slasher 3000 cross guards. Stellan Gios's lightsaber, another main High Republic character, is a great example.
Fun fact (though I don't know if it has been retconned): Cho Mai is the lightsaber maneuver specifically for attacking the opponent's hand 🤓
if we are going for the prequels time periods, it does makes some sense that they aren't the most effective in combat because they were more ornamental or symbol of their status. Jedi culture also discouraged more combat oriented ideals as they were supposed to be peaceful peacekeepers not warriors, especially in peace time. And the sith were thought to be gone, so training oneself for saber combat/dueling would seem strange, like "why would you do that we are at peace, and there is no sith, are you thinking of betraying us?"
Hokey hand guards and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, Matt.
Why not both, Han?
Great points. I also remember in the Knights of the Old Republic games there were vibraswords that were resistant to getting damaged by lightsabers. that material would make a great guard.
I wish some light effects could be added into that saber knuckle guard. That way you can kind of give off the impression like it was a force field generator. Since we know those one aquatic race of jar jars have energy shield tech. Quite literally shields mostly made up of energy.
There's also technology that can repel lightsabers; Grievous' Magnaguards from RotS and TR-8R (FN-2199 in The Force Awakens) both have weapons that can block lightsaber blades. Perhaps a crossguard could be made from the "conductor plates," as seen on TR-8R's baton. I've read that the electrostaves that the Magnaguards use are made of phrik, but they only seem to block with the ends that crackle with electricity, so I imagine the technology has something to do with it as well.
The technobabble term "magnetically sealed" was used for the trash compactor door, and in my headcanon that's how you make solid things resistant to lightsabers.
The D guard seems like the best one. One of the cool things about the lightsaber is that you can turn the blade off, this is super convident to wear. A d guard is essentially the max for hand protection while being convenient to wear. The guard could also have multifunctional for higher end ones like a shock knuckles dusters, smoke spreaders, blasters or short burst flamethrowers.
There is a trade off to being able to draw quicker with more hand protection. A traditional lightsaber can just be summoned to your hand without worrying about aligning it. With a hand guard, you are going to be worried about alignment on a weapon that doesn’t have alignment issues.
Yeah, but the draw thing isn't that hard with something that is open on the sides like a D guard is, not having to think about edge alignment is a plus, but also not having to have about your fingers being burned off is either, along with having a weapon even without lightsaber being turned on. Also, imagine the comendy of a Jedi master finding his apprentice using a gun as uncivilized, embracing a clumsy weapon, just for the apprentice to horrorify by using his lightsaber like a set of brassknuckles. @@martytu20
Doesn't need to be just about hand protection. Ive noticed with Star Wars lightsabres, the blades do bind and combatants seem to spend a lot of time close to each other pushing their sabre blades together. Might be nice to have the option of using a knuckle bow as a knuckle duster to the face in that situation. If you can't bring the blade into action, perhaps you can the hilt.
Phrik is a canon, light saber resistant, metal from Star Wars universe, also known for being used to make weapons. So you don't even need to be a Mandalorian.
How about force shields, and I don't mean the Midi-chlorian "force" that flows through all things, but like the buckler style seen on The Mandalorian (ships have shields too)? A bulbous force shield appearing as a character grabs his/her/its lightsaber would be sick.
Yeah, there's quite a lot of lightsaber resistant materials in far away galaxy, maybe some of them just not completely proof as beskar or cortosis
like, in theory you can even be the most badass out there and use Zilo's scales lol
I don't think lightsabers are real. I guess I am a denier😬
Give it time.
Are lightsabers flat or round?
@@scholagladiatoria They are spherical.
They are round (tubular) but it seems that their tip is shaped more like an American baseball bat in 4-6, and is more pointy in the other productions.
Kylo Ren’s lightsaber had somewhat of a hand guard like a long sword. That was a really cool design.
That wasn't a guard. Those were just vents for excess plasma. Their function was to stop his weapon from blowing up. They didn't have the containment field and so wouldn't actually block anything.
@@Wright805 just wondering how many lightsabers have you built?
@@cripplers8 None.
Just wondering how much of the lore have you read?
@@Wright805 none but since there’s none functionally in real life everything is just theory at this point so you won’t know till you actually build one 😉
I'd expect that the material used for lightsabers would be resistant enough that you could not only use the lightsaber for extended periods of time without destroying itself, it could also be used to make a hand guard of some kind.
I believe lightsabers would be great with a beskar or even plasma projected disk guard over a metal guard to prevent the user to cut itself, and a projection of "light"over it to block another lightsaber. Still if Jedi used to wear cortosis or beskar armor bracelets or gauntlets it would prevent many accidents.
I think one of the main reasons (in universe) is that it might get caught on the Jedi robes. This problem was seen when a kenjutsu expert tried out a longsword. Maybe a small tsuba, like on a katana, would work better than a larger guard. The main reason, though, might be that the lightsaber isn't designed to look like a real historical sword, but to be something from another galexy.
The only guards that make sense without specifically designing the grip as a non-cylinder are cup hilts (more like epee), full baskets, disks, or dishes.
As for material, most instantly think lightsaber vs lightsaber and thus go straight to the likes of beskar. More likely lightsaber wielders are likely dealing with blasters, so something like clone trooper armor (Rex said it's better than stormtrooper armor) at minimum. Your points on glancing reminds me conceptually of real swords with flimsy guards like brass or the fancy ones.
Beskar ain't got shit on cortosis
So glad to find I'm not the only one to have nerded out about this in a serious way. Before anything, I think these principles need to be understood:
* Somehow, the blades do in fact have mass. Lightsabers DO NOT handle like flashlights. The blades clearly have inertia.
* On contact, sabers DO NOT effortlessly glide through any medium. Depending on the medium, frictive resistance is felt.
* Lightsabers can and probably do "bind" to some degree.
had to stop to comment before finishing the video, which I never do, because I'm so happy you made the point about lightsabers not instantly cutting through stuff. It might be THE most widespread and persistent myth in all of Star Wars. Lightsabers can definitely cut through things swords can't, but the movies have literally never shown them to cut through everything like wet paper like 99.99999999% of fans seem to believe, and in fact have shown the exact opposite, since the beginning!
The best material for the handguard would be beskar alloy, the same stuff Mandalorian armour is made of. Good subject matter lol, thank you 👍
I love the new lightsabers in the ahsoka show. Those lightsabers have some sort of hand protection. Same with the inquisitor lightsabers. Although if I had my choice I'd probably take kylo ren's because he's just got a straight up preventative cross guard
It should be noted that a LOT of lightsaber emitters can practically function as hand stops. All of Obi-Wan's lightsabers, for example, have what looks like a teeny-tiny disk guard on the end, which would do nothing to even slow-down another lightsaber, but would definitely stop your hand.
Yeah that's true, a lot of them while not having anything recognisable as guards do have "make sure hand doesn't slip unto the blade" stuff.
I've also always wanted to see energy shield guards on lightsabers. People often admit that lightsaber resistant material technically would work, but then counter that practically speaking those materials are extremely rare/difficult to forge/wouldn't work for some other reason, so you would still almost never see guards. But even if you accept that argument as true* there's still no reason that, when you flick the on switch on your lightsaber, it couldn't also turn on an energy shield projected into a guard shape.
There's tons of things like this throughout the history of Star Wars, like the ones some mandalorians use, and energy shields have been shown blocking lightsabers plenty of times, like the shield doors in the Naboo power plant, or Durge's shields for an example of a small personal shield that's shown to also be capable of doing so. (The mando ones might already be an example of small shields that can block lightsabers, I just don't remember if they've been shown to off the top of my head so Durge's work as a definite example.)
And you could also combine the two if you wanted, have a physical guard that's just regular material, but has an energy shield projected around it when activated.
*(Which it definitely isn't always! Like sure it's fair when people say only the mandalorians, who historically generally oppose the jedi, have access to lots of beskar and knowledge of how to properly forge it. But people also say cortosis wouldn't work because it doesn't just block lightsabers, it also temporarily shorts them out on contact. That doesn't stop it from working as a lightsaber guard it makes it work even better! Cortosis guard, regular metal for parts near the blade, now you've got a lightsaber that won't short itself out, and has a guard that will block and short out the lightsaber of your opponent!)
As a former sabre fencer, wrist and arm cuts were the low hanging fruit
I do agree a lot tho, that was also the reason why Ezra’s first lightsaber was my favorite for longest time when I was into Star Wars back in the day. Like, just imagine if count Dooku’s lightsaber had a more hand protection like a knuckle bow, that would be soo cool. :)
The lightsabers used in the High Republic Era of Star Wars actually did have guards on their sabers (as well as a lot of other fancy decorative bits all over their person), but when they went to war against the enemy of the era, they enacted a protocol that required them to end all the fancy decorations and focus on the war. So they stopped using fancy materials in their sabers and started constructing sabers that were focused more on deflecting blaster bolts than being effective in a duel with another lightsaber wielder. And apparently they just never ended that protocol and continued to live humbly (much like Buddhist monks) through the Prequel Era and the Clone Wars. In fact, they had a similar protocol enacted at the start of the Clone Wars to focus their efforts on the war even more so.
That all being said, I know that having a guard would still be beneficial when deflecting blaster bolts, but if you have the Force and are focusing on moving your hands out of the way of the bolts and moving the blade into their path, it's not really that big of an issue. And it actually makes sense that they would make more simple utilitarian sabers for the war effort, as opposed their more fancy dueling-focused sabers of the past 😉.
Actually, another point about the hand slipping onto the blade; if you look at the designs from the movies, I don't believe a single one of them is as smooth as the sabers you have. They are pretty much all very rough and jagged. Your hand isn't slipping around anywhere on those things (especially in the time of the Original Trilogy 😅). They look downright painful to hold, lol 😆. I'd be much more worried about the skin being ripped off of my hands than I would about my hands slipping onto the blade, lol 😅. And pretty much all the designs, whether jagged or more ergonomic, tend to have at least a bit of a lip around the emitter. So you'd at least feel where the end of the hilt is even if your hand somehow slipped that far, lol 😉.
That was very entertaining. I would love to hear more on how you change the style of wielding for a lightsaber vs other swords.
With Sabine Wren having become an actual Jedi Padowan, it might very well be that we are going to see some form of Beskar hand protection incorporated into a lightsaber. She will have to construct her own lightsaber at some point to complete her training - keeping the one she got from Ezra won't count for this purpose. Given her personality, and having seen what Ezra did with his own first lightsaber, I could see her making something like that.
In fact, we might already have seen a beskar guard. The darksaber has a small guard, similar to a disk guard - only rectangular. Since that sword was made by a Mandalorian, it could have been made from with beskar alloy.
Asswokea should be utterly ignored, especially since the orange non-actress is not even a Jedi let alone a master so that overhyped lump of plot armor has no authority to take a padawan in the first place.
Sabine NEVER showed any Force sensitivity, but the cowboy hat wearing hack had to make his waifu a "jedi" so screw canon, logic, and all that because "The Farce is Female"
@@demomanchaosOh shut up, there's no such thing as being totally insensitive to the Force, it resides in all living things. It just takes a lot of training and dedication to make up for that lack of innate talent.
@@JainaSoloB312 Only a select few are Force Sensitive, and the lastest waifu mary-sue's 5 minutes of ripping off A New Hope absolutely isnt going to cut it even with someone actually force sensitive. That is unless you are mary sue waifu and/or mary sue self-insert OC Strong Womyn of Girl Power(tm) then you can magically just be Teh Bestest EVARRR out of nowhere without reason.
When Nabu demonstrated these type of plasma shields... I kind of wondered why a plasma shield ball or even a cup hilt was never considered for a lightsaber design. A ball might require a wrist attachment making a kind of bubble around the hand. A cup hilt could be done kind of like the plasma shields you see people of nabu use against blasters. Both would have been sufficient. If it's an energy issue for the lightsaber as a device, you could make an argument that the blade is shorter in compensation or something.
or you include earlier, more civilized technology of the analogue lightsabre connected to a battery pack lol
I included this in my fanfic. It takes place long after Luke founded the new Jedi Order (Legends). So, it would make sense for lightsaber hilt design to advance.
I believe it was probably just too expensive--especially during the Clone Wars. The Jedi had already been living simply, like Buddhist monks, and then when the war started they had to focus their efforts and make their sabers as simple and cheap as possible.
@@SpiderboyN2Jesus they had an incredibly disproportionate amount of political power within the republic and they all fly spaceships and im sure the military industrial complex is booming in the starwars universe how are those shields an extra expense when you already have the most civilized weapon in the universe
Thanks for the great and informative video, really love it!!❤
Plasma is charged so I tend to think that lightsabers are not only "sticky" but also attract each others like magnets would. This would explain why hand protection isn't a big deal as sliding on contact and deliberate attacks to fingers would be hard (you'd have to overcome forces pulling your "blade" towards opponent's lightsaber). Attracting property would also make mechanics of parrying and binding very different from HEMA analogues as you'd have to use force every time you want to break the bind. Different types of motions would also lend themselves better (or worse) towards separating blades that got stuck (just like separating magnets is easier with sliding than through tangential pulling potion).
Awesome to see a kanan and ezra shoutout in one of these videos what a cool crossover
Finally someone is answering the questions that keep me up at night
we do have an example of a cross guard with kylo Rens blade regardless of how you feel about those movies
it's not a guard tbh. but exhaust, it makes it easy to make lightsaber malfunction though which is kind of dumb design.
A properly designed hilt with a full basket guard would be a good start.
Damn, I wasn't expecting Matt to be such a fan of Star Wars. If I ever see him mention Revan my mind is going to implode.
One point I'd like to make is that the lightsabers tend to have loads of texture and protrusions on the handle that tend to prevent the sliding of the hands
One of the eternal issues of a guard on a lightsaber is "how do you stop another lightsaber from shearing straight through it?" as pretty much any material you care to name would be dead weight on a weapon, weight that may even unbalance it. Sure Cortosis is an option but sticking a lightsaber disrupting material on a lightsaber is a terrible idea while good luck getting the mandos to share the secret to any version of mandalorian iron let alone one that resists lightsabers. About the only way I see it working is splitting the beam a la Darth ninnys sabre from the sequel trilogy or the high rebuplic era crossguards. To be fair though protecting your own fingers from your own blade does seem like something easily done with a simble disc guard.
Another weapon that doesn't have much hand protection is the swagger from tod's workshop
About your third point, the accidental sliding where your hand ends up on your own blade. ALL of the canon lightsabers have a stop to prevent that. They are ALL at least a little wider at the emitter. It's only the cheapest Chinese lightsabers that don't have that. Just google for images of the sabers of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luke, Vader, Dooku, etc. You'll see they are all wider at the emitter. And that will also help a little against the blade sliding down after a parry.
But indeed, a full knucklebow would have looked great on a lightsaber for Dooku. I would have loved to see him fence with one hand all the time and with his right foot always forward. That would have given him an even more majestic look. Nevertheless, the Sabre Dooku ended up with is my favorite one.
I'm a stage fencer and a replica movie prop collector. I have a replica of the Dooku lightsaber, of Guy Williams' Zorro, of Tyron Power's duel vs Rathbone, of Antonio Banderas' Zorro, of Pertwee's Doctor Who duel vs The Master, of Brosnan's 007 and an umbrella with a sword, like John Steed has.
Lightsabers without hand guards are in ways more like sticks in fighting than swords. As with a stick to protect hands one must parry further away from hands than with many swords & hold binds far shorter than you can if you have a guard. It won't fully eliminate hand hits but it definitely will help.
But a guard (disk or cross) on a lightsaber dies protect better & allows for certain techniques not practical with a no guard lightsaber or stick.
A gungan energy shield or a brake buckler would be interesting too.
I just had an odd thought. What keeps the emitter on a lightsaber from being melted by the energy it's sending out to make a blade? Some kind of containment field. That containment field is probably what makes the beam "blades" stick together in a clash. Now, magnetic fields expand outwards -- the electromagnetic field of a power line extends outside the physical cable. Is something about the lightsaber's field effectively pushing up the blade, away from the emitter, along the exterior of the field? That would act as a deflecting guard, not just against lightsabers but against blaster bolts as well. You'd have to actually turn an opponent's blade at least 90 degrees away from your line of attack to even get a shot at their hand -- just like Vader did to Luke on Cloud City.
None of which does anything about the problem of sliding your hand up into a plasma beam. So it's a theory that changes nothing -- a handguard to stop your own hand's sliding up is still pretty important.
I would want one designed to look elegant...disk guard is nice, but I like graceful and elegant.
saber blades don't slide easily in the bind, though, the fields that shape the blade cause them to bind really tightly when the edges make contact, i would love to see sparring at the HEMA club with those durable practice swords with something like a clear spray adhesive on the blades
I would like a basket hilt made of Beskar like what you have in the back or a Beskar glove would work fine.
I personally didn't believe that a handguard on a lightsaber made any sense until after the prequels and "extended universe" introduced materials like kortosis which can't be cut by a lightsaber.
It makes no sense to have a handguard or quillons which a lightsaber would just cut straight though, almost like it wasn't even there, because then it's really just decorative.
Would deffinitely love to see an Eston School of Lightsaber Fencing video of whatever you come up with!
I propose that bucklers and other small pieces of mundane material armor might have some utilty.
We see that lightsabers seem to not instantaneously cut through materials if they are sufficiently thick or durable. A small buckler, cap, gorget, jack chain might absorb a lightsaber's energy during the second in which a lightsaber remains in contact with a body part during a strike.
Maybe a type of very scaled down, wearable ERA could briefly snuff out a lightsaber that strikes it or nulify the energy.
Active protection could work as well. What about a flashbang shield or suit? It triggers the moment a detector senses a lightsaber being drawn or swung.
Be creative. Create active protection for jedi mind tricks. Maybe wear vital sign or brain wave monitors or as many sensors as you can afford. If these detect activity that doesn't match the wearer's baseline in for the given situation have it trigger a sound, sight, taste, smell or feeling that will wake the wearer up to the fact that they are being mind tricked. The sensor could be as simple as one that detects if the wearer is repeating the words of the person they are talking to verbatim.
You could get herd immunity to mind tricks if everyone makes a habit of not parroting others in conversation. Jedi would have to assume everyone has the mind trick detection widget and has it set to always on. Or they'd have to surveil targets for long periods to see if they ever repeat words back in conversation.
Mind trick immunity notwithstanding, I think the jedi's psychic powers in general make them poor choices for infantry. I'd want my jedi to be my S2s. They can communicate securely with telepathy. They can get great human intelligence simply by sensing feelings, depending on how accurately, they could even do target identification:
These feel like terrified civilians.
That feels like a riot brewing
Those plain clothed men don't feel like civilians. They feel abnormally ready to die.
And those indescernable vehicles down there are giving off a strong vibe of, "Oh God I hope those A-TIEs circling overhead realize we're clones and not droids!"
Jedi could be good at that and many other intelligence tasks besides.
A buckler style energy shield would be sweet.
I have been doing härkamp for some years now. I must admit the short weapon of my choice is the axe, not sword, but I can't remember my hands being hit once for years.
It’s no coincidence Tar Vizla’s Dark Saber which is beskar, has a small guard.
There are some problems with using either cortosis or beskar. Cortosis: (wookiepedia)cortosis was very fragile until refined, making it normally useless as armor, and had difficulties with prolonged energy attacks, such as those of lightning guns, which would overload the material, there can also be an argument made that using unrefined cortosis for handguards could be preferable because unrefined cortosis shorts oput lightsabers(atleast if you are figting other lightsaber users frequently and can replace the handguards). Beskar: rare, pricey, mandos have basially monopoly on it and would put you on mandalorian's radar if they knew it because it has religious meaning for mandos.
I think some durasteel alloys and weaves could be a good enough option for handguards, because as shown in episode V Vaders armor could shrug off glancing blows, so it is atleast lightasaber resistant. ( Edit: Sry for any mistakes in my rerasoning I am not up to date with Disney cnaon)
In Star Wars, most metal has about as much resistance to a lightsaber blade than warm butter to a butter knife. Qui Gon shoves his blade instantly into the door, and uses the heat to melt down a big portion of the metal.
I always think about: lightsabers build using Mandalorian Iron, Neutronium, Phrik Alloy or something else
10:10 is prime meme territory
Kylo had the best lightsaber guard. You couldn't get around the little blades.
personally id go for a lightsabre without a guard/with a flair at the end as a hand stop. i think the benefit for it comes from the fact itd be more concealable, you could slip it in your sleeve or even make yourself appear to be particularly well endowed. i think the more important thing to consider is how the gungan shield technology and manufacturing really took a nose dive after the clone wars. id personally would want that as a basket hilt to deploy on my lightsabre and another to fit in my pocket to deploy as a shield the size i need it for (idk if gungan shields are adjustable, if not theres a great place to innovate)
vibroblades are also lightsabre resistant and i wonder if that technology could be applied to the guards or to any clothing or even if beskar or some of the other metals could be made into a weave mixed in with clothing or even chainmail despite possibly being over stimulating as a vibrating shirt lol
pure Mandolorian Besgar armor would make excellent hand guards.
Beskar or Cortosis would fit the bill for a guard although the dark saber does have a minimal guard.
I'd be using the gold handle with a disk like an epee, light epee poking holes into Vader for better ventilation.
Matt is it possible your chosen style reminds me of late Count Dooku? :)
Happy to see that!
Only if they're made of lightsaber-proof material.
Since most lightsaber hilts themselves don't seem to be Cortosis or Beskar, the answer is 'probably not'
Unless we're talking about handguards made of laser, like Kylo's.
There's really just two problems.
i. Very few materials provide any real resistance to a light saber blade, so a handguard is useless unless made from a dense resistant material, or ray shielded.
ii. Using plasma blades for the guard as Disney Wars does is taking the risk of cutting yourself on your own blade and ramping it up to 1000.
In Universe iirc the blades do stick and not slide, and one uses the force to avoid getting hit.
That said, some sort of stop for your hand is a ruddy good idea.
Matt is a Form II guy! Nice
It is a kind of a mixed opinion. What lead you to drive the point home is experience in real life lightsabers which absolutely do benefit from handguards. But I am missing a bit of an analysis - admittedly very hard to make - how the non-sliding property of lihtsabers would affect the need for handguards. Strikes directly targeting the hand, yes, that still applies... somewhat.
But my hypothesis about lightsaber combat assumes the weightless blade with air resistance and no edge alignment does make for a different combat than might seem from hema tests. You have to still drag the blade through air and material you are cutting which makes it into more of a sword and less of a flashlight, but the blade still has no weight and therefore not the same type of momentum. It will want to continue to move in a straight line line, a bit like cutting underwater where the effort to move the blade in the first place results in continuous force in that direction, but the only weight actually pushing into a bind is the weight of your hands and the base of the saber all the way down. This combined with the nonslipping property means the slightest flick is enough to bind the blade and close a line, unless the attacker then decides to continue actively pushing through. But a lot less is needed to block regular strikes and you need to change direction much more to avoid the opponent easily holding that line locked. The blade being faster than your footwork also means it should be incredibly difficult to actually get past someone's defence. But it also means that it is a LOT easier to protect your hand, as long as your bladework ensures the blade makes contact before any other strike lands. If the blades dont slide and provide little to no impact force, making contact is pretty much all you need. I read this as a major advantage of defensive form 3. If you are not attacking as much, you are not commited to pushing the blade in a direction, defending becomes so easy its almost insulting to the opponent.
Essentially circling sweeping motions with the blade preceding the hand should make you quite safe actually. It still probably wouldn't look like the double handed spinning fights from movies and more like one handed count Dooku style, but if for some reason one of the most powerful and politically connected organizations in the galaxy cant afford cortosis and is denied beskar, they could probably do without just fine in my estimation. Maybe a little ridge to prevent hand slipping but thats about all you need.
Star Wars is part of our history
Keep it up with the Star Wars content
I would love to hear your thoughts on multi bladed lightsabers like darth maul’s lightsaber staff or that umbrella one from. Star Wars Visions
I would recommend you try out Count Dooku's lightsaber. His lightsaber has a curved hilt.
I can't be the only one who thinks a big reason lightsaber hilts are as simple as necessary is because they need to be nimble and easy to swing and flourish in complex ways that only Force users can pull off. You can't do fancy twirls and spins and throw and catch the thing as easily if you have a guard in the way.
Look into Lightfoils
There is a cannon reference to lightsabers with handguards
More like this!
Using a buckler instead or gauntlet might make more sense bc it might get in way less of using light saber in all sorts of angles grips etc
It makes sense for lightsabers in the movies to not have guards. Jedi at this point in time do not expect to fight other lightsaber users, but they expect incoming blaster fire. The guard would only make the weapon heavier and less reactive against the latter. During the Old Republic era? Yes, handguards, definitely.
I think that the omni directional disc guard makes the most sense.
One huge difference between light sabers and swords that people don't talk about much is that edge alignment doesn't matter. At well. That plus the much lighter blade weight and the extreme cutting ability of the blade makes certain movements that would never be done with a sword not just practical but advantageous with a lightsaber. These movements would be much more difficult to do with a saber style handguard.
Edge alignment wouldn’t matter, but you wouldn’t be twisting the hilt in your hand.
Disc makes a lot of sense also given the original inspiration from katanas
Need a Gymnasium Sabre or Basket hilt Lightsabre. More protection is more.
The original light saber to me was Aztecs obsidian swords. Macuahuitl.
Surprised you didn't mention Kylo Ren's handguard. It does help stop his hand from sliding upward, but could be better, if the laser parts protected the top of the handguard instead of jutting out to the sides
That wasn't a guard. Those were just vents for excess plasma. Their function was to stop his weapon from blowing up. They didn't have the containment field and so wouldn't actually block anything.
@@Wright805 I didn't know that, but I mean they wouldn't block anything anyway because the metal part is where the blades would actually make contact. It still works as a guard to prevent his hand from sliding though
Matt has made multiple videos on Kylo's crossguard. He likes it, a lot.
@@combogalis I see, beg your pardon.
My Star Wars nerd argument against guards is that lightsabers are meant to be used with the force. There have been a few statements (guess it's still canon?) that a lightsaber is a ridiculously dangerous weapon to wield for non-force users. A jedi is constantly using the force to track the position, monitor their grip and assist the movement of the lightsaber. It seems like most jedi have made the decision that the maximum flexibility of smooth lightsaber hilt is better than the slight encumbrance of a guard.
You could also have the lightsaber energy running thru the handguard or other protection unseen outside that guard which would block any of the opponent's lightsaber attacks. The hand guard might suffer some damage, but better the guard over your hand. It may not be canon, but it would solve the issue logically for some weapons.
Noteworthy: Some of the visuals & sounds made when the sabers do slide, there appears to be some "skipping" involved as the sounds made seem to suggest when this happens. I've no idea if this is what really happens, but it does appear evident.
That said lightsaber shooting rail guns for the win
Cortosis ore switches others blades off, and Beskar / Mandalorian Ore, Neuranium, Phrik, Ultrachrome were all resistant and were all known to people with access to decent libraries and histories like all the Jedi and Emperors.
Makes NO sense some didn't have resistant basket guards with cortosis inserts if they specialised in fencing.
Looking forward to those future videos! Currently writing some fanfic and would love some weird, unconventional shit for my weird unconventional character to do. :3
when you have the force you don't need hand guards. as was demostrated in New Hope when Luke blocked the training bots blasters while wearing a gelmet with blast shields on.
jesus christ, xawesomecorex
Every single movie has limbs being lopped off
The original lightsabers didn't have completely smooth handles. They had boxes and protrusions built into the handle, so your body would naturally know where to grab it at and so that you wouldn't slide your hand into the blade portion.
Well sometimes the sword hits something hard and the force stops the sword and ur hand slides forward, that applies to steel swords, but as a lightsaber it penetrates anything easily so I guess that’s why they have no guards😂 and ease of carry as well
The answer is obviously yes, but only if they are of a convex shape with a mirror finish.
Am I remembering correctly? Didn't Mace Windu have a knuckle bow on his lightsaber in Attack of the Clones?
Matt did you ever look into the physics, laser technology of light sabers and are not theoretical physical possible? if you want, i can refer you to theoretical physicist taking about it and why it is not possible.
that is also why in star trek they only use laser guns
In-universe explanations aside, whatever they may be, it would make sense for hand protection to be absent on many lightsabers for the same or similar reasons why they are sometimes lacking on historical swords - lighter hilts, different feel in the blade, ease of wear, unlikelihood of the wielded ever having to use one against someone else with a lightsaber, etc. The last point would make sense even with complex hilts still around in the High Republic - think of the later models of Russian/Soviet shashka, the shinguntō, the Polish sabre from the 1930s, or indeed the crossguard option available to Highland officers.