CURVED or STRAIGHT GUARDS on Medieval Swords
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2024
- Curved and straight hand guards on medieval swords offer different advantages. Here we look at which is better for different things.
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Ah, finally the answer between curved vs straight…oh wait; guards? This should be interesting.
😂
Straight with knobs vs. hooked and narrowing.
@@texasbeast239 dogs vs cats?
See those warriors from Hammerfell?
Their swords have curved guards! Curved! Guards!
I use a curved guard for longsword HEMA, and I like it for primarily two reasons, one of which wasn't really touched on here. One is like you said - it makes it harder for a blade to slide off the guard and onto my hand. The other is that a straight guard prevents me from taking certain angles because it pokes into my arm. Some of those positions are really useful.
Absolutely. The second reason is even more of a consideration if you're wearing plate gauntlets that can sometimes hamper wrist movements. You don't want your sword's guard to make that any worse. Besides, your hand will be in far less danger thanks to the protection offered by the gauntlet, so it really doesn't matter much if you lose some of the guard's protection mentioned by Matt.
I was thinking about the exact same thing. Straight cross guard would jab into your wrist if you are not careful. It is not that hard to avoid getting jabbed in my experience but it does force your to be more restrained with your hand movements.
But you lose reverse half swording techniques
In a heavily armored duel straight cross guard
When armor started to turn into breast plates for stopping firearms a curve cross guard is better
Yeah, I also can't help but think that proper buckler and shield use cuts off lines to the hands anyway, so matt kinda is overstating the hand thing on one handed sword guards. Then again, there are messers which we known were used by themselves. Or maybe on calvary swords, though getting into fencing matches kinda goes against the point using a horse. A horse at a standstill is a massive most of the fleshy target.
A classic Mat Easton video, where Mat just picks up a couple weapons he happens to have around the house and talks about them for 10 minutes!
For the algorithm!
Why did he like this comment?
@@beesmongeese2978probably has a sense of humor, recognized a kernel of truth, and it’s not actually negative. Didn’t say he didn’t like the video or anything.
@@UnsolicitedContext Sounds about right. The comment sounded more cynical in my head.
@@beesmongeese2978 My favorite Mat Easton era was when he realized he needed to upload a video, so he just picked up a random sword and rambled about it for 10 minutes. 10 minutes because 10 minute videos got mid-rolls. The man knows so much and I want to know all of it.
He probably upvoted it for the last line actually: comments count as engagement so if you say anything right when a video gets uploaded it gets shown to more people. This is a business, he is a businessman, and as a satisfied customer I want him to make/sell more product.
For the algorithm!!
Also a point of note for handling: for a lot of techniques where the cross goes past your wrist in moulinettes and the like, some people just seem unable to adapt to a straight cross and continue to bruise themselves, so they get a curved crossguard. Ie. like Henry Cavill did for his witcher prop sword.
I am mainly curious about this aspect. Even quite a small curvature makes moulinettes much easier to do. Fingering the guards (so a typical sidesword grip) removes this problem. But also, from a hammer grip, bringing/rotating the sword back towards the arm to flick it forward is facilitated by a curved guard. Conversely, am I learning a bad technique by using a curved cross guard? I don't want to become Henry Cavill in the witcher and use a reverse grip... not unless I also get his other perks. 😏
I was going to comment about Cavill's Witcher sword, too. IIRC, it was originally a straight crossguard and then was changed to an angled hilt at his request for greater maneuverability.
It is nice to see somebody addressing the wearability of swords. As a practical matter, swords would have been worn more often than they were used in practice and in combat combined. Wearability would thus have been a significant issue.
I am a retired cop in the U.S. I wore a thirty pound gun belt for many years. In my experience, there are four major issues with the wearability of weapons.
First, a weapon has to be worn in such a way that it remains constantly at hand. A weapon is useless if you can’t access it when needed.
Second, a weapon has to be worn in such a way that it remains secure. A weapon doesn’t do much good if somebody can easily grab it and disarm the bearer of the weapon. Modern holsters have a variety of security features but the simple ability to rest a hand or arm on the grip of a weapon can go a long way to making a weapon more secure.
Third, a weapon needs to remain relatively close to the body so that it does not involuntarily interact with the environment. A weapon can frankly become a hazard if it is constantly bumping into things, knocking objects from shelves, tearing curtains or the clothing of others, etc. It can also present a problem if the weapon gets caught on objects in the environment and pulled from your person.
Fourth, a weapon has to be worn in such a way that the weight is at least bearable over the long term. Outright comfort is often impossible to achieve. As I aged and acquired chronic injuries, I noticed that it became painful to wear a gun belt and body armor. I would be astounded if this is solely a modern problem.
Yep. Contractors always modified equipment assigned to us. I could never wear a gun directly at waist line. It would have to hang low on my hip or it was always in the damn way.
Well stated. Career soldier here with identical feelings about my LBE. Negotiating what is necessary with weight and bulk was always an issue.
I just got out of a fencing lesson about 15 minutes ago and this just popped up on my phone. The universe has aligned for me
What school, please?
Something that never seems to be mentioned is the physics of cross guards. A cross guard adds mass to the sword at a distance from the central axis. This mass creates inertia that requires more energy to rotate the blade along its long axis. The result is a blade that keeps its edge alignment slightly better when it strikes another object. It would be interesting to do some tests on this, maybe in collaboration with Todd.
Royal armories you say? I sure hope we get an appearance from Jonathan Ferguson The Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armories in the UK which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history!
I think, for the sake of brevity, we may have to petition for an official title that’s a little more succinct. Something like ’Lord of the bang sticks’ or ‘Duke of Dakka’ for example.
@@Oldtanktapper "Sir Boomstick"
schologladatoria, tods workshop, modern history TV, lindybeige, the history squad, time team.. all of you are always on rotation in the house. cannot stop! And of course the great tobias capwell when he is featured.
I appreciate that Matt is able to consistently provide information on a variety of specific topics. It makes his channel a very effective reference document.
I always prefer the slightly upswept cross guard, it gives me more room to maneuver the sword in the hand and wrist. This is especially true considering our HEMA heavy gloves we all wear.
More space for rotation in the wrist helps with some techniques.
There are also backwards curved crossguards, stereotypically asssociated with china but they did appear in byzantium and other parts of eastern europe.
The primary advantage is in hand protection. The primary disadvantage is that they lock your hand in a handshake grip. Fittigly, they are always spotted with thrusting blades (with maybe two exceptions). Also, backwards-curved quillons can be found on rapiers and other later swords.
I've a leaf-shaped shortsword with horseshoe-shaped pommel and guard.
I find it useful to 'catch' and block sliding blades ... and hooking it onto my belt. 😁
I guess your blade is blunt? Sharp blades do not tend to slide, but to bind.
@@PalleRasmussenI hook the cross guard on the belt, not the blade.
@@alantheinquirer7658 that is not what I meant, but nevermind, I am falling asleep.
Goodnight.
One point I've not seen mention is while a straight guard is safer when fighting without gloves or possibly leather gloves. When fighting in armour using gauntlets and a visored helm, would a curved guard not be easier to grab and draw when fighting in an armoured or battlefield situation. You primary weapon breaks or is discarded for some other reason. You will then need to quickly draw your sidearm. Your visor obstructs you view of your scabbarded sword at your waist and you need to get your gauntleted hand on your hilt quickly and easily. I would imagine that a curved guard would make this easier.
11:45 I always assumed this asymmetrical designs appeared first on falchions because they are already asymmetrical, meaning they have a clear "front" and "back", while with double edged swords you want to be able to hold them in any direction
Very interesting......and with soooo many medieval garments made of wool, you just know that guards tangled in cloaks was a real problem!
It seems to be fairly evenly matched for pros and cons so I think your assertion that it may just be personal choice and fasion
Suddenly I understood the reason of the portuguese “crab” hilt. You combine the advantatges of both guards
Curved, I go with curved. 👌
I've a Type XV from Lancaster Armouries. Admittedly I only bought it two weeks ago at ARM so am still mastering it's quirks, but I love the upturned crossguard, and I've not had any issues with it being caught on my combat duvet just yet.
Curved guards you can hang the sword on a peg or nail
The Sword of Santa Casilda also appears to have a guard that is a compromise between the straight and curved types.
The pseudo-knuclebow (d-guard) shape seems like a very good shape for a cavalry sword as it is more likely to have the oponent's weapon slide off. I think that is very important as getting your sword caught while your horse is moving is very dangerous
This is super helpful, thank you.
For the Algorithm!
And quicker than the bots! Respect.
The straight guard is just cooler in my eyes. I bet a lot of people in the period would have had the same discussion and on many occasions they would choose by visual preference and compensate in other ways
The CPU is watching 😂
@@ZaeyrusOr maybe religion also mattered? I know, of course, that the cross guard had a practical reason. But maybe they thought it was cool to have a cross symbol on the weapon. I have the same observation about some early sabers, which even have a strange-looking cross guard. This doesn't seem like the best solution to me, but I wonder about the religious factor.
For the algorithm.
Thanks Matt highly informative!
I don’t know about arming swords, but in my longsword training I noticed that a long straight guard would sometimes hit my wrists during certain movements. Though it could be atributed to my lack of experience as it tends to happen less with more training, A slight upwards curve would be apreciated.
great video very interesting love the examples
Thank you for the information. I've always liked the straight guards in medieval swords ⚔️
'W' in german is pronounced like an English 'V', so it would sound like "vinden". It pretty litterally translates to winding, as in winding something around a blade to hold it or winding around an attack to counter.
If you can ever get your hands on a North African Nimcha I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
It has very strongly curved guards swept towards the point which seem well-suited to catching (and the rear pair of guards could be interesting if it's functional rather than aesthetic), but also a nice protective knucklebow and a hooked end to the grip which would seem very quick and secure to draw and hold.
Specialized longswords for armored dueling have crosses that end in spikes, or a hammer-beak configuration as Joachim Meyer described & illustrated. That's the one context where you do want a spikey cross.
The sword in the thumbnail is the cawood sword. I own a replica! Very cool sword that combines "viking age" and crusades era styles
Oh to see the mediaeval facebook discussion on this subject.
My first reaction when I saw the topic is whether or not the width of the blade, and thus the need to catch & control thrusts, was going to be a factor.
Interesting that there were other factors that Matt brought up.
I knew about the S-curve as I have a replica Medici falchion :)
I was a novelist and I wrote a couple of fantasy romance novels set in the period from the Georgian to the Regency. I watched your videos and studied a lot, and it was very helpful for me. My problem is, I'm not writing any more novels because I've been watching your CZcams videos.😊
My Ren Faire outfit includes a shirt with lace sleeves.
I have never managed to go a full day without my sleeves getting caught on my sword/dagger of it has any quillons of any kind. Shape doesn't matter, it gets caught. :-)
Reach (straight) vs strength ( curve) in the parry. Similar contrast is found in boxing weight classes
My preferred/favorite sword to use has quillion that are mostly straight with the capstand ends curving upwards ever so slightly. Like you said, kind of a best of both worlds.
I’ve found that one of the challenges in sword & buckler can be the interaction of the cross with the buckler. Such as when you’re protecting the sword hard with the buckler and winding with the sword. I wonder if this would be less of an issue with a curved cross.
Curved guards, if you catch the angle right, help you catching and maneuvering around the enemy's weapon
A curved crossguard might also help orient the hand correctly when grabbing the sword while wearing guantlets, especially with a wheel pommel - just get your hand somewhere around where it needs to be and the curves coming from both sides settles your hand on the grip snuggly
Cheers!
Thanks for the thoughts on this. Particularly the wearablity.
Hi Mat, is there a foreseen release date for the Royal Armory Batch 2? Basically, should people keep ahold of their spare change for now, or go ahead and buy something else since the Batch 2 release is still far away?
You are far from being the only one who wants to know that.
I know Matt is much more focused on bladed/melee weapons but since he's frequently at the Royal Armories, I wonder if he's ever met Jonathan Ferguson The Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK, Home to Thousands of Iconic Weapons Throughout History
I'll take the s guard like on the katsbalger. So elegant looking and protective
When I got started in HEMA (and was probably not doing things right), I jabbed myself in the forearm with a straight guard. I thought at the time that forward angling the rear guard made sense to prevent this, and that if you had a symmetric blade, you might as well forward angle both.
one small thing i think you missed is that with curved (towards the blade) guards the point of balance is also brought farther forward which in some cases can be desirable.
its a small detail, but sometimes these can help with the context. :P
9:20 as an example of why you want to avoid finger hits, watch Troy: Fall Of A City, episode Battle on the Beach. There's a scene that illustrates perfectly why.
Got me thinking about which swords in my collection I find more comfortable to wear riding in replica medieval saddles. Crossguard design is definitely a big factor.
i'd like to see a spada schiavonesca type sword reproduction with their (in my opinion) beautiful S-guards
My beginning in HEMA started with a wooden sword that was replicated by the El Cid looking d3sign and now I just have a preference for the forwards curve to catch and bind other people's swords. It usually ends up being more of a wrestling match than a sword duel by the looks of it, but it does catch people off-guard if they weren't expecting it.
My favourite isn't stright or curved but angled.
I Personally like a 'Bow Tie' as a V shape cross guard on a double sided blades but Schiavonesca are nice as well in terms of very simple guards though that is curved on a portion of the differing plain mind.
Single sided blade then a simple knuckle bow with a lip is
The addition of finger, loop & side guards is always welcomed.
2 projection can be done in a multitude of ways!
2:02 there is also manufacturing ease, but I suppose it's a mute point in this case
It gets even more interesting with greatswords, most of what was said in the video only partly applies to them, they are neither worn nor used in close quaters with shields or sidearms and yet they have both curved and straight guards. The extreme length of these guards however and the flattened profile of the ones that do curve suggests that hand protection against an angled strike may have been the most important factor.
There is much more in armored combat.
“Those warriors from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords. Curved. Swords."
(I know, not quite right, but still)
Do you find any noticeable different between straight guards and horizontally s-curved guards, like the stereotypical “Irish” style?
these c shaped cross guards were also found on early modern Indo Persian hilts eg Afghan pulwar
So maybe I’m just adding things up that shouldn’t be at it up, but….
Gun Jesus recently released some videos from the Royal armory, and you are just now releasing a video about going to the Royal armory. Can we expect some crossover collaboration soon?!
That would be amazing.
I've often wondered about those dramatically curled guards on Spanish swords from the 15th-ish century.
Considering that they seem to have finger rings built in, I wonder if they suggest a more point-forward fighting style which would both be less impacted by cuts to the hand and also would develop into the distinctive way of gripping a Spanish cup hilt rapier.
Thanks for the video!
For the early type of curved guards, may it have happened by accident?
With some type of good replica, by striking or falling on the ground, they have this tendancie to bend upward.
I like 'em both, as long as they're symmetrical.
Hi Matt @scholagladiatoria I have a feder on the way with a curved cross guard, how common were curved cross guards on a long sword?
Then what about s-curved crossguard. Not those that curve up and down, like you shown on that rapier but from left to right?
I like curved guards for staying out of the way. But, straight guards are useful as extensions of the weapon in their own right, whether that's through punching with the guard or in use in a mordhau.
Good evening Sir Mat Easton,
Can there be a relationship with the form of the guards with the type of armor that was used/available on the battlefields such as you said: Gauntlets, Full plated armor or even brigantines? Furthermore the use of shields could influence the guards too or not? Maybe a straight guard has more benefits with a roundshield then with a later kite shield etc.?
These are just thoughts of a non-HEMA/-swordfighting person. I would like to hear or read your view with your years of experience about that. Thank you again for a great, interesting video.
Yours sincerely
How about a follow up to this video where you discuss S-Curve or Figure-8 guards
I've read that curved guards (and "curved down" pommels) were used on late Viking Age swords in the lands of Rus' to make those swords more convenient for use on horseback. If I understand correctly, in Western Europe the same problem was solved by using wheel pommels and making grips a bit longer, so curved guards weren't that useful for cavalry swords.
The Ablion Lancaster.
Not to be confused with the Avro Lancaster.
A very different prospect all together.
I want a sword with giant fish hook barbed quillons. You also remind me why wooden sheilds are so good, as the opponent's weapon gets stuck in it.
My first thought is that a sword with a curved guard would be less likely to get snagged in the wearer’s clothing when it was drawn from its scabbard.
I prefer the curved cross guard because it’s less likely to get caught on my arm or rub against my arm while fighting. When doing solo drills with my nylon longsword i end up rubbing against my forearm with the straight cross guard, for me that’s a form issue that can be worked around but the curved one is more forgiving in that regard which is why i prefer it.
I would love to see you or one of your colleagues do a speculative evolution of various arms. Based on the hypothetical that firearm development was delayed indefinitely. No gunpowder, basically. I would love to see things ranging from, "What would a Halberd turn into?" all the way to "Would we even be alive to wear new armor in this hypothetical?"
would the limit be just no gunpowder or would you expand that to no ranged weapons? Guns replaced spears more than swords, swords remained the sidearm long into the use of gunpowder weapons. Armor is what stunted the use of swords more than anything, gunpowder if anything began to reduce the benefit of armor thus restoring the potential of swords for a long time with a focus on much less armored opponents than the past, that's where we get the age of sabers and rapiers and such that wouldn't do diddly to an armored opponent but the armor wouldn't do diddly against a gun. What you really want here is lightsabers, swords that nullify armor and guns.
This actually happened in Japan. There, firearms were quickly banned for most people, even the elite. And they continued to use swords in the old style. But maybe it's a matter of attachment to tradition?
@@henryjones2111 I really just want to speculate on how weapons would have evolved if we didn't have gunpowder. I am okay with ranged weapons. I want to hear people's thoughts on what they think would have become the top arms as well as what they think would have happened in history if guns had not been created. I am not focusing on swords or anything in particular.
@@henryjones2111Yes, I also think that in the absence of gunpowder weapons, wearing armor would still make sense.
@@Zbigniew_Nowakmore likely an attachment to power, When you say no one can have guns, those in power are free to create exceptions for those that support their rule "no one can have guns, guns are evil, except my bodyguards, that's different, they can have whatever guns that they want". Banning something doesn't get rid of it, it just puts usage solely in the hands of criminals and those with the power to selectively unban it (often also criminals). Tale as old as time, and why things Like the US second amendment are so radical and valuable. The idea that government can't take away your right to arm yourself and the acknowledgement that government doesn't give you the right, their only role is to protect that right... game changing idea, shame it's been corrupted and eroded over time.
Sir Easton, would you consider breaking down weaponry from Avatar (Na'vi, not Airbender)? There are some cool tomahawk in one hand and dagger in the other style combat employed in the way of water among other things. I'd be furthermore interested in your opinion on the Na'vi bows and spears etcetera. My personal favorite is when Neteyum (might be wrong on the name) sneaks up on a bad guy and deliberately switches to the pick side of his tomahawk before wrecking said bad guy.
I believed that crossguard with small inward hooks is a fantasy design popularized by Conan the Barbarian cover artwork, lmaa, that's the only place I've seen them. Awesome that they existed, I would've never guess it have intended purpose, next I'll hope to lern that spiked armour was real.
Nice.
Usually, form follows function.
But sometimes styles, fads, and culture gets in the way.
Byzantine swords' guards are often curved down, that's where the Western ones should have came from, by the intermediary of Viking swords perhaps. It seems to be an oriental feature that you can also find on Hungarian and other East European sabres from the 10th century.
Curved cross guards give you more wrist movement, while also being able to catch and twist and opponent's blade...
aaaaaa show me the windlass round 2 swords already matt!!
Could a secondary use or benefit of the curved guard be for in a case of binding or wrestling for your life (which would not occur in just sparring ) be to jam into your opponent's face to distract them ?
Half round is perfect 🍀✌️😜✌️🔥🔥🔥
Sai are another excellent example of sword catchers/breakers.
I don't fence so I'm just speculating but I could imagine that a curved guard allows you to use some cutting angles that a straight guard would prevent because it's more likely to jam into your forearm
Are there enough extant examples of a type/style/maker/era of sword where it would have been possible to "tune" the balance and feel by bending the quillons in or out?
Is there enough mass there to affect balance?
Probably the reddest of herrings (not simply through embarrassment), but might be fun to experiment with on a modern replica.
What about hitting with the cross guard? They used to do it, right? (holding the grip or the blade)
I, personally, prefer straight cross guards that flare out, so they kind of curve both ways. 🥰
What about double curved guards that are curved both up and down like a x? Do they exist?
Before anyone else asks, what about the diagonal guards on the Scottish claymore? Did they have some specific purpose in being like that or was it purely decorative?
What about the offensive capabilities of curved vs straight guards? Would the straight one be more effective for striking with the guard, whether punching with it or murder stroke?
I used to wonder why the early "batorówka" saber had such a wide, sword-style cross guard. It seemed to me that designers should have immediately recognized a downward-bend rod as better hand protection. But after your video, I have slightly different thoughts. Perhaps during this transitional period between the use of the sword and the saber, there were still some tricks used to control the opponent's weapon, which required a sword-style cross guard? What do you think about it?
The "Murder-Blow" was done with the cross guards; the straight ones better at denting armor.
Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a double-curved guard (i.e. curves up near the blade for binding and then back down for hand protection)? What would be your opinion on such a guard?
Perhaps a Y guard on each side would have been the best of both designs.
Even with armor, the thinness and small bones in the fingers is going to be highly vulnerable, certainly in a combat. A blow that puts a knuckle-sized dent in your breastplate might hardly be noticed... that same force applied to your gauntlet or leather glove is going to shatter fingers.
That said, I also don't like curved crossguards because I like to do a lot of pommel and crossguard strikes, and I don't think curving in the tips, particularly thin and small, is as good. And in general I simply dislike trapping weapons that acute with my crossguard; maybe preferred form, my size, I can't say; I'm more prone to panic and readjustment if my opponent's weapon is hooked fast there. (This issue of mine does not apply to polearms.)
How about a video on curved edges on straight swords?
What about hilts that curve backwards towards the user?
What about guards on Bowie knives. Does this still apply?
I used a sword with a rather long straight guard and I found it hit my wrist a lot when bending it back. Seemingly you can get away with longer curved guards than straight ones.