"Velma" Is Wrong About Animation
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Alright, the HBO Max "Velma" show is… how do I say this nicely- bad. It’s bad. The first season isn’t over yet, as of recording this there’s only the first four episodes out, but from what we’ve seen so far the only thing that’s carrying this show is the art style and the animation department. But then, despite this, the show disrespects its own animation, and animation as an art form.
And then you compare that to Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, a movie that was targeted at children and yet still has all of these complex themes and ideas and respects the viewer, to *Velma*, an adult series that’s essentially making fun of the viewer for watching it, is kind of telling of the industry and the state of how people view animation as a whole. So many people view animation as "just for kids" and I think that's ridiculous. Animation is for everyone. So let's talk about it.
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:19 - Thoughts on Velma
2:25 - Puss in Boots: The Last Wish
3:55 - Squarespace
4:47 - The Disrespect of Animation
6:40 - "Animation is Just For Kids"
8:09 - What Animation Can Do
10:14 - Conclusion
Music Used:
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#Velma #PussInBoots #Animation
This video is a review/critique protected under fair use. All clips used are transformative as they accompany my commentary and are therefore within my legal rights to use.
This video is NOT INTENDED FOR CHILDREN. Though it is possible that the topics and characters I discuss may appeal to some children, the language and visuals that I use are, at times, not appropriate for young children. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Actually I take it back the biggest problem with Velma is that it doesn’t have Melvin Doo
The 420 joke means only adults who like cartoon use 420 in jokes, usernames etc.
At least that’s how I interpreted it.
Couldn't agree more
Poor melvin doo
I think that the 420 joke points to the OG Shaggy Rogers because fun fact: He is actually a stoner. Yes, Shaggy Rogers is a stoner.
It doesn't have Scooby!
Writers when you tell them that making a character unlikeable and annoying 24/7 with no growth isn't character progression: 😱
What are you talking about no Growth? do you actually watch the show?
@@delycan4912 she literally gets over an anxiety attack by making fun of her friend, idk whats there to like about her
@@delycan4912 yeah, she grows into a bigger asshole
@@delycan4912 forcibly.
And @echotheworld8686 comment still stands.
@@CharmedReally7 not what happened.
She got over it because she assumed Norville was joking.
Who is Velma even for? It’s not for adults that are fans of animation since the show actively makes fun of adults who watch animated content. It’s also not for fans of Scooby Doo since it has no Scooby Doo and warps these characters into rude, mean spirited, insecure, racist, and misogynistic narcissists who just walk around pointing out other peoples flaws while completely ignoring their own. Also on a side note, that jacket is fresh
It's to gain more viewers out of hate especially since wb has been losing some money, I feel hbo max gaining more subscribers will be a big number boost to them
It’s like Family Guy with a wannabe Scooby-Doo theme.
For assholes that hatewatch it
@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 That’s one way to describe it. And the same goes for Family Guy.
It's for Tasteless Fools, that's who!
the disrespect towards animation is so infuriating, and having known a guy who has been constantly saying that animation is fundamentally for kids makes it worse
my dad is liked that, calls everything a cartoon
i also like how velma wants to be potrayed as an adult animated cartoon while being immature, it just amuses me.
Yeah I hate it when people trash animation.
@@jonelrobinson5189 they should trash either sports, news or anything cuz use animation for they own agenda way boring.
@@Nika44 also to jump off that last sentence, I feel like most people today underestimate what children can handle
Puss in Boots 2 and Arcane are great examples of what Animation as a medium is truly capable of...
...meanwhile stuff like Velma and Big Mouth disrespects this incredible medium in a very nasty way.
Iv been saying it for years but animation remains to have the most creative content in both movies and tv as of recent theyve been actually getting popular which makes me SO happy
You know Rotten Tomatoes is corrupt if they consistently gave Big Mouth 100% on every season. Now, whenever I hear a movie got 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, I think"Big Mouth got 100%" and meet it with skepticism.
I kinda disagree the animation in Velma is pretty much the only good thing about it but I agree I don't really like big mouths art style and animation
I mean, I wished Arcane was an original adult animation IP. Where I would treat this show, as same as everyone else. Instead, felt in my opinion is that people are overpraising it, just because it’s one of the first adult animation that is predominately dramatic, with small comedic bits.
A pretty also, if it wasn’t from a mediocre video game franchise from two decades ago.
Along it’s some controversies came with it, both the game itself and it’s company who made it.
Even, this show is meant to be alternative prequel, they could treated as a normal prequel in their main moba game update as canon. As, they only change was the background details, that’s it.
Thank you for agreeing with everyone that isn't parents and Netflix that Big Mouth is terrible.
The reason why I still consume animated content aimed at a younger audience more than anything despite myself no longer being a kid is because, most of the time, it's made with love, passion, and taken seriously. Adult western animation fears itself, and wants to justify its mature rating by overstuffing it with needless edge (barring some exceptions).
I've once heard it described as often the only difference between an animated show made for little kids and an animated adult show is that one can curse and I think that's pretty accurate.
Bojack Horseman is a good exception.
There r good adult shows, like Inside job. Too bad that one of the 1st/best examples of an actual story and character focused animated show for adults was cancelled.
It’s clearly a war on animated shows that have story focus.
@@carlrogge94 Primal is also a good exception.
Adult shows like invincible and Helluva boss are made with care, but apart from those shows and few decent other shows, Adult animation is a joke compared to Kid animation if we’re talking about effort and storytelling. I love Helluva boss but I think The Owl House, Amphibia, and Infnity Train are much entertaining to watch as they have creative ideas and stories because they have kid show restrictions and find creative ways around it. I would love to tell you about mature concepts and stories from these shows but it’s better to watch it for yourself
Want to shout out Guillermo del toro who basically thanked animation for existing, saying it's a medium and is for everyone. He truly deserved that award, and I hope his words don't go unignored
Guillermo del Toro literally stopped HBO Max from cancelling a super popular mexican animated show. I really apreciate him for that
@TheGlassesPro there's a mexican show called Los Sustos Ocultos de Frankelda (Frankelda's hidden scares I think?) And it's a dark fantasy stop motion show for children about a ghost writter that tells stories :D and HBO Max almost canceled the second season but Guillermo del Toro told them that it was super cool that they were supporting animation and that they had made an amazing choice with that show and basicly praised the show so much publicly that HBO decided not to cancel it. The studio is so proud of Guillermo del Toro liking them that they have pictures with him and his quotes on their website lol
Brad bird, the creator of incredibles, ratatouille and iron giant said it first, a Guillermo followed
He made a best Pinocchio adaptation
@@rebecca_rh even better, double the support
The show unironically feels like the writers never once spoke to the animators and basically just dumped the script on their laps telling them to adapt it namely because the visual gags, easter eggs, and nightmare animation sequences feel WAY too high effort passion filled to come from people like Mindy Kaling and whoever the hell is in charge of the joke writing. The 420 joke not only feels like a slap in the face to the people watching but also a back handed insult to the animators.
Based on watching clips, I think the voice acting is good too.
@@as3957 Just doing what they can with the material they're given. Tho Velma's might actually believe what is said out.
@@FezFindie that's because she's the main reason why this show's writing is so awful
Definitely. Speaking ad a 2D animation student in her internship (idk abt anywhere else but in my country, internship is just a mandatory think u do for ever diploma n degree uni course where u p much become an unpaid or underpaid employee, and for me, I am an actual animator in my studio altho our work is way lower brow) and the writers defo just dump their scripts on us n give very basic descriptions. So animators tend to add our own spice
The 420 just seemed like a "she doesn't know about weed she's so silly" joke
That being said I didn't watch the show and couldn't care less about whatever insult it's throwing at me for liking cartoons
I think the thing that made The Last Wish such a hit was because it's less of a kid's movie and more of a movie kids can watch. There's a _lot_ of swearing and death, but never in a way that makes parents want to cover their kid's ears and eyes when it happens. It also helps that Puss and company are all total badasses that make every fight scene incredible.
Ghibli films are more mature than that. Ghibli is basically if Asian arthouse was blended with Renaissance-era animation.
They are basically mature arthouse films that kids can still watch.
Makoto Shinkai and Mamoru Hosoda are also similar to Ghibli.
Other similar family-friendly Asian arthouse films (that are live action) include Chungking Express, In the Mood for Love, Hero, Miracle in Cell No. 7, 52Hz I Love You, I’m a Cyborg and That’s OK, and Barking Dogs Never Bite.
I like how they censored so many of the words but it was still clear what they were saying.
Also Puss outright saying “Hell” surprised me. I never considered it a bad word, but am surprised to see it used still.
The last wish heavily reminds me of The Iron Giant with it’s themes of death.
@@HydraSpectre1138 Ghibli is awesome, but is it really necessary to immediately compare stuff? Can‘t we just appreciate both films for what they are and stop at that?
I dont even think its necessarily that its "something kids could watch" but more that they dont have the expectation that everything needs to be dumbed down for kids. They understood that kids arent dumb and can understand concepts like death and actually gain something from it. Yes adults can watch it and its great but I think more people need to come to terms that not everything for kids needs to be extra sugar coated. It can have some sugar...but no one, not even kids want an entire piece of cake coated in nothing but ground sugar.
Velma is a cynical show that writes its characters against the core of who they're actually supposed to be and instead how the writers think they are. Despite what some may claim, the race swapping isn't a problem, the way the characters act is. Fred is meant to be a pleasant guy who cares about his friends and not some incompetent rich snob. Daphne is meant to be the rich girl who spends time with her friends because she feels most at home with them, not some mean girl stereotype. And Velma is meant to be a girl who is smart but not rude to those around her, shy but not inept or unlikable. Shaggy is meant to be a chill guy who loves food and contributes to the group despite being scared of most things, not someone who is constantly pining after someone who treats him wrongly.
Edit: And of course, they took out the lovable dog mascot of the Brand, Scooby Dooby Doo.
I don't even mind changing the character's core personalities IF you do so in service of a solid core story/message/theme/what have you. But Velma's clearly just doing it because some guy in a suit thinks we're still in 2010
To be more accurate, Fred is the friendly leader who doesn't exploit the others, Velma is booksmart, but doesn't treat the others as inferior like a lot of "smart" characters would, Shaggy is the loveable coward who loves food, but is willing to face his fears to help the team, Scooby is the loveable mascot who's essentially the dog version of Shaggy, and Daphne is whatever the heck the specific iteration's creators need her to be, whether it be "rich", frequent damsel in distress, love interest, etc.
Yeah the races never spoke anything or where integral to their characters, you can make them whatever race you damn well please- but the heart of their characters has always been what actually matters. That goes for ANY IP given that race isnt important to the characters personal background.
And Scoob is supposed to be there
it really goes back to, why did you have to use an old series? Why dont you just make something original instead? Because I mean that's essentially what they did. Velma isnt Velma its Mindy Kailing, Shaggy isnt Shaggy, they literally call him Norvell, Daphne's character is messed up, and her little race swap isnt even that noticeable, and Fred is just the token "white guy punching bag"
If they are going to change so much, why even use the names of the old show?
I think we need a streaming service specifically for animation. One that is ran by animators, and doesn't cancel potentially outstanding projects.
There are multiple streaming service specifically for animation like Crunchyroll and Funanimation
@@JLacay They're more like distributors instead of actual platforms for animators and animation fans to enjoy, so those are out of the list.
Fr tho, what animation needs is an official government support so they wouldn't be exploited by greedy higher-ups
@TheGlassesPro Like every other streaming service like Netflix and HBO Max. What's your point?
@@seisosimp
Even though they distribute animated shows, they can still produce some well-crafted animation series that all animation fans can enjoy like Mob Psycho 100, One Piece, Komi Can't Communicate, Bocce, and Dress Up Darling.
Also, why would the government support animators? They have more important things to support than animation.
There's vrv
Fun fact: when i went to see Puss In Boots The Last Wish in cinema, the entire screening room was filled with adults besides like 1 kid. Animaton IS for adults and kids and any other age group, the only thing that gives the age rating is the story. Not the funny moving images.
It’s a medium not a genre
@@mysticalkeyblade759 when did i ever mention that it was a genre
I had mostly kids and I felt weird for going into the movie (21) even tho I love animation. I felt judged the whole time but then watching the movie and loving it so much I went back a second time the very next day and now it’s totally my favorite animated movie. Even above spiderverse. Every joke just lands and every fight scene is beautiful! Every theme is really well done and just the movie is beautiful!
@@thesnipingspider3852 based! yk what they say "cringe culture" is dead. there's no shame to enjoy an animated movie because it's animated you go dude :D
Same here
Velma is what the internet thought she hulk was
She hulk Velma made me realize on how I loved watching daredevil and Mystery inc instead
@@WSendam mystery inc is a masterpiece
@@owyemen9367 yup 👍 ❤️
It ain’t much better tbh
Not like it's much better though.
They should rename the show "Mindy" because she made the show for herself. And nobody else.
Thats probably what that was, then someone said the show would fail and someone else had the bright idea to dredge the Scooby-Doo franchise into it and everyone told her no one would buy mindy self inserting as Daphne so she went with Velma and called it a day.
Right????? All I have taken away from the few episodes that are released is that Mindy is just a terrible person and is too stupid to see how unlikeable she is. IDK if thats true, obviously, but thats how shes portrayed herself as
This show proves why hate-watching doesn’t improve anything.
fact.
A thing for me with The Last Wish is that it doesn’t feel oriented in any particular way. Like, so I love The Bad Guys, I think it’s a fantastic film. It’s a family oriented movie, with themes and ideas that fit that. There’s a lesson for kids to take away here. Last Wish on the other hand, feels more like a movie oriented for adults on the theme and ideas level that is then made to appeal to kids too. It’s a movie for everybody in a very real sense, and it succeeds in that because it respects anyone who might be watching. Velma has no respect for anybody, not even it’s supposed target audience.
Yesss exactly exactly. I loved The Bad Guys but that message was of course simplified to be for children’s media. It still rocks but Last Wish has themes that are more mature than most “adult” media
@@troyoboyo17 oh the irony of that last statement
It's kinda like Megamind and Soul, kids can enjoy those films, but I think adults can appreciate them more.
Just wait until you watch cartoon saloon’s movies like The Bread Winner, Song of the sea and Wolf Walkers, or STudio ghibli movies like Mononoke, Spirited Away, Nausicaa, or the wind rises.
You’ll thank me later.
"...But the Chart Says"
- Sun Tzu, The Art of Shit Filmmaking
Its good to know Dreamworks still has that "let me show you how its REALLY done" energy, and no less than the franchise that started it all
With how much Shrek is memed on, I always forget how good the actual movies are. I didn't even want shrek 5 until Puss in Boots, but if they keep that energy going, it's going to be great!
Sinbad and Eldorado are the greats
@@hareecionelson5875 Let's not forget The Prince of Egypt!
HTTYD
@@viktormonthe prince of Egypt is a masterpiece of a film and as a religious person, I'm glad it gave a serious depection but without it feeling like propaganda
The animation industry deserves more!
It really does ❤
@@WSendam if the US took notes from China we would have so much more
look at BiliBili youtube channel the trailers for upcoming shows are series that often only happen because their is faith that viewers will support them to get more seasons
Really good video. The whole "animation is only for kids" is such a terrible take
Yeah like who came up with that, cartoons weren’t even meant to market towards kids, originally it was meant for everyone 😂❤ I love animation it can be anything you want why do big studios keep thinking it’s for kids anyone can enjoy animations adults love animation
even example is there are porn animate in porn hub a.k.a the adults show which had respect it material than "modern generics".
I didn't even know there were people as stupid as that prior to watching this vidro
@@OwO377 Realistic true fact.
8:05 "Even the animated properties that are aimed at kids, that's not necessarily a bad thing" That sums up pretty much everything about Pixar movies, they treat all movies like a movie for all ages
Well actuallit is MORE than just "not a bad thing".
well... maybe not trolls? although those movies didn't seem "bad" either.
@@BobbinRobbin777 Trolls is a Dreamworks movie, not Pixar
@@Lyokoheros-KLPXTV Exactly!!!
@@Pedro_Marangon oh, i thought we were still talking about The Last Wish.
based take though.
I thought I was the only one who always felt like the Mystery Gang was college age.
that a good idea cuz use high school is main for kid also very overuse to the point be boring. people even myself totally fine with other place that had adults theme than generic high school trope cuz it will became bore.
They were in high school in the original series, although it was usually only briefly alluded to. There were some brief references to Shaggy being on the high school track and gymnastics team and stuff like that. They were young adults in some media though, like the DTV films and live action films. Mystery Incorporated goes against the grain and actually shows them attending class in high school, although it isn't a major focus of that show either.
It's my understanding the Scooby Doo was inspired heavily by the series The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis, which was a high-school sitcom. Shaggy being Bob Denvers Maynard Krebs is pretty on point.
Remember when Scoob was the most hated interpretation of the Scooby Doo franchise?
Good times.
In comparison to Velma, Scoob was good, and I mean really good, and my favorite part of that movie was the movie's main song, Lennon Stella's "Summer Feeling" featuring Charlie Puth, which is a bop and great. I barely watched that thing itself besides the second half of it
Wasn't that be cool scooby doo? Btw I liked Scoob
They're making fun of adults watching cartoons confuses me so much, like Mindy you know you're making a cartoon for adults right?? Why would she make it a blatant self insert but then also make velma unbareable and irratating. I am perplexed beyond all comprehension on the goal Mindy is trying to achieve with this show.
Proving lack of self-awareness if this show pretty much ends up with "Now feel sorry for me!
mEtAcOmEdY & sUbVeRtInG eXpEcTaTiOnS
Hypocrisy!
I can only imagine that being either a) a self-depriciating joke that's gone horribly wrong, or b) a cynical move to get animation-fans into hate-watching.
@@fermintenava5911 Or an attempt for some kind of a "Springtime for Hitler" scheme?
How come when adults grow up they forget what its like to be a kid
they mind is way stagnate compare other people even myself had difficulty life in early year only make them way mature than before.
I think the problem of Velma is the writers don’t care about the viewers or the art of making a show. Watching this show is like listening to a bitter person ranting about their hatred of the world while simultaneously thinking of themselves as being superior.
You pretty much described nearly every Redditor in existence.
@@rommix0 Not all of them
@@smileyhappyface5864 keyword here is NEARLY
@@rommix0 Yep.
@@rommix0 and a lot of people in general
It disgusts me that people throw animation for 'just kids' when animation can be used for so many purposes.
Puss in Boots was a perfect example of how to stay in the line of being a kids movie with mature takes and people should take notes. There's also anime which is animation but half of that shit is dark.
You say people shouldn't call animation a kids' medium and then you refer to Puss in boots, a family movie as a kids' movie. No offense, but it bothers me so much.
Like seriously it's just millions of drawings that give off the illusion of movement,how is this inherently for children lmao
@@redpanda6497 For kids but has mature content regardless, meaning it's can be for both. Puss in boats is what my point suggest, it isn't SOULY for kids.
@@Electrical010 I mean it's literally a family movie.
It's like when the she-hulk finale made a joke about Jen transforming off scene cause it was costing them money,the entirely of phase 4 was getting bash for having weak CGI. So for a show to acknowledge a fault as a joke is weird
It kinda felt like Rick and morty humor honestly just acknowledging something and thinking that’s funny when it isn’t being self aware isn’t funny only Deadpool can do it right which is funny cause Jen did the whole 4th wall break thing in the comics before Dp but it feels so unfunny in she hulk the weird thing is wade as a character you can feel for him the cracking jokes parts are a way for him to cope and hide how he’s really feeling and I love that about him but Jen in the show comes off as spiteful and cruel a little bit
"It's not a glitch, it's an intended feature!!!"
For those wondering, the Disney CEO (Bob Chapek) who said animation is "just for kids" is no longer the CEO. He has been replaced around November 2022 by the CEO who resigned before him (this CEO being the guy who greenlit shows like The Owl House in the first place)
Let's go
I take it that's a good thing?
@@bioluminescence1321 yes
@@princkleminckle1159 I see.
Bob Iger isn't much better, he basically was behind the wave of Disney (crappy) live-action remakes, which goes on the same line as people wanting Maul in the Kenobi series: people disregarding animation as not being "genuine"
It's interesting to notice that Velma animation is actually quite good despite the show's attitude towards animation.
It really isn't that good. The fluidity in normal scenes that aren't spooky and jarring is fair at most. Fan artists make much better animation. They add more frames, the mouth and eye movements feel like a bit of a soul got attributed into the project, not insulting AI with how bad the frameworks is.
@@anglepsycho I don't think comparing the works of fan animators to a studio production of an animated show is fair though, fan animators don't have deadlines and therefore have more time and freedom to polish their animation which usually are under 10 minutes while in studio productions there often is very tight deadlines and they have to work in a very fast pace to get a lot of 10- 20 minutes episodes done
I also hate Velma btw but I just wanted to point that out
@@Watersiteplay exactly lol, poor argument.
It has to be it's liberal and the point of liberalism is to keep everything new. That's why there was nudity in it. Erotic art doesn't have any message in it. It's mindless, that's why liberals use it. It's to keep us stable. Their aim is social stability. This entire movie is a liberal psyop.
@@Watersiteplay true, but I would say it’s fair as a comparison of passion, rather than a comparison of results and the specific situation. Clearly there’s more passion coming from fan projects, than from Velma
It's amazing Kaling would mock "cartoons are only for kids" when she's voiced in a couple of them before yet those were also enjoyed by adults.
I love how much variety of content this video carried and how it wasn’t just a dunk on Velma (even though it deserves it) but also praised so much good animated media
Mindy is one of those people who thinks she is entitled because she is a minority and did some good writing on the Office. Then just gave up and made what she wanted.
no, no, no. you don't understand. she's stuck in a cycle of referencing her high school experience for the media she creates. she thinks being self aware is enough
That's not true she simply aligned with the new liberal agenda. The liberal agenda constantly changes. She's showcasing the newest social conditioning, and the updated racial stereotypes.
I hate to say it but the writing only works because of the already established comedians in the show. In fact, as soon as Mindy was brought on to the show cast wise, she bogged it all down by just being a horrible person and too shit of an actress to hide it.
@@aestheticbeatz5700 no shes not she actively wrote all women as shallow creatures except for her. No way in hell is she progressive
@@aestheticbeatz5700 Mindy's a reactionary, definitely not on the left
Animation is just as much an art form as Live Action. It's just a different style of doing it and I stand by that.
if anything i think animation is objectively better than live action cause there so many more stuff you can do with animation compared to live action
animation is literally an art form. animation is more art then live action can ever be.
It’s funny cuz current “live action” is mostly computer graphics and animation now. Ppl who hate on animation are still consuming animation, whilst thinking they’re mature for watching live action
All mediums are valid mediums.
an 3D animation is just as valuable an interesting as 2D yet some weebs hate this idea so much while China is thriving by their 3D an 2D side by side
We seriously need to give animation and art in general more respect like please the disrespect Gives me migraines
look at China
BiliBili youtube channel is an example of what the US could be if it loved animation of all forms
Honestly, I cannot bring myself to hate Velma as much as others because I straight up don’t care anymore. It’s probably gonna be one of those shows that everyone hates and then immediately forgets about in like 2 months like She Hulk and I don’t have any interest in seeing any more of the show past the first episode because it is sooooo boring and uninteresting for me.
Yup you just kinda get burnt out on stuff your not interested in but others keep making a fuss over it when in reality it’s just a piece of entertainment that really doesn’t deserve your attention at all
I liked She-Hulk.
As someone who wants to get into the animation industry (and wants to create an animated series) this video says a lot of my issues with and thoughts on how animation is treated
Also you were probably joking but in case you weren’t, 420 means weed
But like… what ABOUT weed like how does that mean “adults who watch cartoons” what is that joke supposed to be saying is she just saying random words to sound quirky
@@troyoboyo17 it's implying that weed smokers are failures, so they would watch animation, which the writers see as a lesser art form.
This show sucks for a lot of reasons, but a main one is that it's wrote and produced by people that don't even respect the medium that they're telling their story through.
@@troyoboyo17 I think it suppose to show how out of touch Velma is with the rest of the world and society to the point only her bitterness allows her to understand what “420” mean
@@troyoboyo17 I think it was supposed to be quirky or subverting the viewer’s expectations
@@exileforever2508 Yeah, but you understand that in doing so the joke is specifically designed to take a cheap shot at what is assumed to be their target audience. That's just so, UGGH! 😡😡
"Adult" animation when it comes to America just translates to: Theres sex and swearing and gore, you guys! "Adult topics" And thats basically it. But you generally find the more serious, truly heavy "adult" themes in so called kids movies or shows. Because they have something to say, and it's usually a commentary on the world or how to grow as a person, or both. It's extremely frustrating.
Over Xmas break when visiting with my relatives (who are generally very cool and not the type to look down on anything), I mentioned Arcane in a discussion about really good shows to watch, and when others spoke up about being curious, the remark given was "it wasn't made for us". And I was just like.. what, good storytelling with strong characters, great world building, and tackling complex issues like mental health isn't for you? Because it looks a certain way and mostly features kids, it's not "for them". That is a huge loss.
This is nowhere more blatant than Disney and their steamroller of "live action" remakes (which are almost all CG.. which is animation). Now those movies are "more mature" and "more realistic" because they look real and are no longer drawn. Yet not a single one of them comes anywhere near capturing the greatness of the ones they copy from. They all miss the point of the original movie, disrespect it, lose the artistry, and end up being disappointing for both the people who watched the originals.. AND the new fans. But it's better because it's "more adult now". Meanwhile, actually crafting something with animation is significantly more work than "live action", and also allows for much more creative storytelling, because you can do literally anything.
I don't expect this perception to change in my lifetime, but I am always grateful for movies like Puss in Boots: the Last Wish, Soul, Spiderverse, Shows like Arcane, The Owl House, Gravity Falls and many others- to keep pushing western animation. And I'm glad to see terrible ones like Velma (no disrespect to the animators, I've worked on lots of terrible stuff myself) get called out and bomb for being bad. All we can really do is vote with our wallets and our voices. Support good work, call out the bad.
BTW: Anyone wanting a GOOD "adult" Scooby Doo Show, look up Mystery Inc.
Thanks for the video.
To be honest, I never thought of Arcane as a "kid's cartoon." It always looked super mature and felt like a solid character drama.
Aside from the professor and his dog, it never looked like it was for kids, let alone exclusively.
This is probably the best example that animated films don't always have to be for kids. I can't imagine a live action take on the story either.
god arcane was so fkn good
Feature films like Into the Spider-Verse, The Bad Guys and Puss in Boots: The Last Wish as well as short films like "Fuelled" and (for a brief while) animated shows like Bluey and Helluva Boss pretty much reignited my interests in animation and gave me aspirations to be an artist as well.
Haikyuu's (the volleyball anime) theme songs was played in the Tokyo Olympics whenever Japan was on the court. this show has boosted Japan's competitive volleyball in high school, to the point that population data shows a marked increase in high school teams forming across Japan. Japan had an abysmal VB prowess for decades so they invested time and money to become competitive. and competitive VB in high school in Japan is world class right now. Nishida, Ishikawa and Takahashi would not have existed if it were not for this anime. all of Japan's national team, and most professional VB players have their favourite Haikyuu characters, and using Haikyuu archetypes to evaluate and assess irl VB players is an actual thing. when you have Olympic athletes, professional athletes, competitive coaches and veteran players CRY over how accurately and thoughtfully VB and its lifestyle has been depicted... well... business people are dumb. they are dumb in every industry. the amount of damage they do to the actual work and/or products produced is insane, especially when there is regulatory data to assess poor production conditions and materials. I have worked for three F100 in science R&D and the number of times that all three ruined our research is too many to count; seems like an exaggeration is cz all three are F100, one German, and two German-American legacy corporations, dominating 1/3 of their market, while one dominating a separate market almost singlehandedly. these are the "successful" companies that governm their sectors. it's bone chilling when you're in the middle of it and realize how utterly unstable and wasteful the foundation is. the only thing cushioning it then, is money, not money+talent/resources/excellence etc.
Don’t forget that Miltiadis Tentoglou, a greek athlete, did gear second pose from One Piece at the Tokyo Olympics and Attack on Titan s1 op played as well.
Don't forget that "A Cruel Angle's Thesis" is regularly played by various military branches of Japan.
@@JLacay thank you for this. my favourite thing is to scroll through Haikyuu comments cz it's so rich and complex, then there are the irl aspects of it. it truly is beautiful. so it makes me happy to be introduced to other impactful anime, since I'm not an anime fan, per se. I don't dislike it by any means, but I don't seek it out.
@@gazelle_diamond9768 thank you for the info. I like these types of informative comments to expand my knowledge, even if I don't watch anime regularly. I like to learn even if I don't consume it cz it affects the anthropology of our contemporary time. people who refuse to admit the worth of something are wilfully ignorant at best, or cowards at worst.
This reminds me of the upcoming Donghua Left hand Lay-up which is made by people who love Basketball an want more people to enjoy the sport
"A show for adults that treats you like a child and a movie for children that treats you like an adult"
Damn
my best guess for the 420 joke is that they're joking that only weed-smoking adults still watch cartoons (thus taking the piss out of their audience a bit). like i'm guessing there's some sort of stereotype about stoners loving cartoons because of their colourful visual style or whatever
edit: didnt watch far enough along clearly LOL, you more or less came to the same conclusion i did. i did find a few articles with titles like 'why do stoners love cartoons?' which tells me there's at least a little bit of a stereotype
I’ve also heard some people speculate that it’s suppose to be a reference to weird adult cartoons that are described as “were they high when they made this or something”?
I thought it was meant to be an immaturity thing because "420 funny number haha"
Yo, i'm 25 years old that loves animation as a medium, and i barely smoke weed. I actually find more fascinating the downfall of velma than the show itself.
I can't hate something i'm not seeing.
I’ve never seen a show have such contempt for its audience.
And they seriously wonder why the show is being received so poorly by just about everyone on the internet.
@@HerrDeutschBlood Do they actually wonder though? Or wasn't that just exactly the writer's intention?
Don’t forget, during the promotion of lion king 2019, the creators were saying it wasn’t animation bc it looks to real, simultaneously insulting the animators who worked tirelessly on the movie and cementing the idea that animation is lesser in the eyes of Hollywood
I'd argue lion king 2019 is overhated.
I just like Donald Glover and Beyonce 😅
Velma is dogwater though
The animation and art style carries this show, even then its mid lmao
It's far from mid. It's terrible 💀
Like, they’re all in separate art styles, look at Norville’s face compared to everyone else💀☠️💀
I find it hilarious that they're saying animation sucks when they're doing awful animation.
It's like making an awful Superhero movie then claiming Superhero movies are all bad.
@@echotheworld8686 Eh, the art style is good.
Dudes be like: “Anime is weird”
My brother in christ: Velma had that shower scene and all of the characters are in high school
Anime has the exact same stuff but sometimes even more egregious. So while Velma absolutely sucks for that, Anime is guilty of the same thing. Hence why I don't consider it "the superior medium" because its just as guilty of some of the bad stuff we see in western animation too.
@@bananarama1425 yeah, anime is much worse at these kinds of "things", and it's been having some "consequences" for japanese women
@@bananarama1425 Legit I'd easily argue that the Redo of Healer is 10 times more harmful and uncreative and disgusting to animation as a whole than Velma
@@itspienoon7883 And yet people try to defend that sick piece of shit. I will never praise Anime as the "superior medium" like sinophile weeb maggots like to believe it is because it is just as capable of being as fucked as western media if not worse.
When a "kids movie" is more mature than the "show for adults"
Man animation has an advantage over cinema that anything you can imagine can be done in animation. Animation is just another medium that has as much potential as any other medium.
Unsurprisingly, another amazing video from you. TOH’s cancellation killed me and I hate what these big companies are doing to animation. Inside Job was a really bad loss too
if i had a nickel for everytime i see a video about velma taking about how western society is collapsing because of it, i would probably be able to be the new owner of twitter
This why CEO removals exist for a reason!
Thank God Bob Chapek was fired from Disney, he insulted animation and Walt Disney's legacy.
Animation gave us so much through out the years and no one should listen to pencil pushing corrupt corpos in suits that don't see the beauty of animation!
Netflix and Warnerbros and Nickelodeon and other company's need to get their crap together. I hope indie animation will grow more and grow stronger and restore respect for animation and corrupt CEO's won't be trusted anymore.
I hope that I gets fired too
Imagine having to animate a scene where the character/actor insults your work
Probably being jaded or thinking "Paycheck, paycheck, paychek...
2:55 the wolf isn't a villain, he is an antagonist, big difference
Velma feels like it doesn't want to exist. Like a spite filled teenager spitting in the face of their parents but instead of spitting on the parents it's spitting on us, the audience. It's as thought the writers took one glance at Daria and said: "Hey people think that's funny, we should do that" without properly sitting down to watch the show to UNDERSTAND why people love Daria in the first place.
Even a train wreck of a show like RWBY (I love this show to death but it's true) is still bursting at the seams with fervor and determination and honest to good love. There has been so many cuts of so many good shows, great shows, yet this one still stands stealing resources from so many more deserving projects, spitting in the faces of those who would support it.
Who in their right mind would think this was even remotely close to a decent idea?
I honestly think Maul can have a great story we haven’t seen before since we were given a glimpse of his exploits in crime in Solo and the tail end of his journey in Rebels. And a story of Maul having his own crime syndicate or gang in the Empire era would be very captivating and interesting if done right
You haven't seen the Maul arcs in The Clone Wars animated series?
@@rdkirk3834 I mean seeing his exploits during the Empire’s rule, since we didn’t see much of him aside from the cameo in Solo and the end of his story in Rebels
What's funny about Velma isn't the comedy itself but the fact that it's offending everyone. It actively offends both left and right wings by race swapping every main character(except for Fred) and also actively makes heavily racial jokes(especially about Fred). It's also marketed for adults but actively tries to mock adults who still watch cartoons. Not to tell that it's also the biggest middle finger to fans of the Scooby Doo franchise.
Well, in original show Scooby gang are in they 15-18 age range as well many other adaptations and there are versions of those characters that go to school (live action movies or Mystery Incorporated show), but Velma didn't had to make them high schoolers, especially if they were gonna have "mature" contant with them.
Also, this show was originally made for CW, which after that PPG drama, explains a lot about why it is the way it is.
I feel like when animation was first created, specifically mostly childrens shows, it was meant to inspire a future generation with animation. Animation doesn’t limit the mind with special effects, you can just create it.
Animation in general wasnt even invented for children! The first animated movies were generally made with an adult audience in mind, and even Walt Disney was a big advocate for pushing animation as an art form, and not just a product. The western industry somehow took a turn over time towards shows for children, probably because they are more receptive, and (more likely) its cheaper to produce. Granted there were great hyper cartoony animators in the 1900s that were probably a big influence in that turn, and thats cool, but yea, the western audience just kind of assumes its only for children now : (
Money is the only language these corrupt executives speak. You can't convince them that your standard animated film is more "successful" than your standard live-action film unless it turns a bigger profit. That's where any and all arguments about animation as an art form fall apart.
"This show is amazing and beautiful and deserves all your respect!"
"Okay, but how much money did it make?"
"Well........"
That's not really a big reason for this though. The animation industry is actually quite cheap when it comes to production and has been shown to provide exceptional margins on release. One of the biggest weaknesses in the US, Europe, and even Asia is that animation is still viewed as a lower maturity medium in a world where fewer children are being born and (good) movies only get made at PG-13 +.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The _audiences_ don't respect animation, and don't watch animation, because most people have completely pathetic media literacy. And most executives are completely spineless toadies who worship the box office return and don't have the balls or the vision to _make_ people respect animation. And then audiences see companies treat animation like shit so their disrespect of animation gets justified.
You know who was told animation doesn't make money, and said 'fuck that' and _made_ animation make money? _Walt Disney._
I know some people who refuse to watch animated movies just because they're animated, and it makes me so sad because they're missing out on so many good stories like The Last Wish.
Over the garden wall doesn’t feel like a children’s show to me it felt like art to me and my dad loved watching it the Show can be enjoyed as a passion project that treated the audience like adults it feels like a great classic fairytale story dark but for everyone
I absolutely love animation and it's my all time favorite art form. Its so sad and frustrating how America overall sees animation as a "kid genre" and does not take it serious. And then gets surprised when something animated does get does serious and "adult."
It really sucks when you are trying to recommend an animated movie or show to someone and they're just like, "oh, so its a cartoon." ✋️💀 like? It doesn't make it any less??? Ugh, so frustrating. I really hope this perspective changes cuz its not it 🙄😒
i wish western companies had as much respect for animation as japan does, its no wonder japanese anime is becoming more and more mainstream these days when western companies refuse to give animation a chance
Japan doesn't really respect the medium that much more from a cultural perspective. It just happens to be even more dirt cheap to produce combined with the ability to avoid competing with most of Hollywood which is very hard to do.
Japanese companies respect the medium, but they don't respect the people who make it. It's a huge issue within the anime industry that animators are horrifically underpaid and overworked (you know what it takes for a Japanese worker to decide they're working too much?) and the quality of animation is directly suffering as a result.
Yup
@@code066funkinbird3Japan literally has haroukishi whichs means work till death which happens to animators
There's a reason anime is so popular.
American animarion is either stuff aimed at kids or unfunny adult stuff.
But anime can be aimed at any age and anyone can enjoy it. Because they tackle any genre and any age group.
There is hope though, yuri lowenthal is the current VOICE for spiderman I hope he continues to switch from games to shows
Cartoons were first made exclusively for adults I really think a lot of people need to remember that. From Looney tunes to Mickey mouse to more adult cartoons
I'm a 14 year old, and I still think that shows like Owl House and Amphibia are some of the best examples of shows in general. They're allowed to be much more vibrant, creative, and unique with the way that they depict the world. I don't understand why people mock animation like it's ridiculous and solely for the young.
all of this really resonates with me. I have always loved animation and found it much more visually pleasing than most live action tv shows and movies. it hurts to know how little people respect animation when its such a beautiful thing that takes so much time and work from so many people. animation deserves to be treated better.
It's also funny how both "The Last Wish" and "Velma" have scenes in which the main character gets into severe panic attacks after they witness demons that represent their fears and regrets...but "Last Wish" handles it SO MUCH BETTER whereas in "Velma" it turns into a joke. Yes, an animated movie about a talking cat based on Zorro in the Shrek universe knows how to handle mental health better than "Velma"...
I can't even say anything nice about the show it just hurts
I think the real stigma behind animation being for kids is because people often point to shows that are dumbed down to a degree that you get stuff like Sharkboy and Lava Girl 2 or Teen Titans Go. Since they can just use the whole “it’s aimed to kids, therefore it’s actual quality would be poor”.
While there’s nothing inherently wrong with the movies and shows mentioned, they are the reason why animation isn’t often taken seriously as it should be.
First off puss in boots is great
Also we can agree that animation is a medium and for all ages btw specking of this I’m in art school as of now and I’m in second semester and working on my first web comic
My guess for the Velma joke is that it's supposed to be self-deprecating humor, since the show itself an animated show for adults. It's still a crappy, nonsensical joke.
Also you're right about Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, that movie slaps. Incredibly tightly and strongly written, and looks great.
I think I'm just done with self aware comedy. I mean sure, if I remember correctly, there was like, 1 "self aware" joke in Puss in Boots, and that movie was still funny to me, a 14 year old. On the topic of age, kudos to DreamWorks, they made a movie that appealed to my 9 year old sister (no surprise there), my 14 year old self, and my 40 year old Mom (love you mom).
say what you want about rey, but at least she's likeable
Out of all the words in the English dictionary you chose spittin facts 👍 ❤
Eh, maybe I wouldn't go that far, but at least she's not specifically hateable for any reason.
let’s be honest all the good things in the show “animation, character designs, etc” is good because it’s made by artists who actually care for the medium
As an artist trying to be an animator, this made me actually cry. It really did.
As a writer it gave me a headache then migraine
I just rewatched Mask of the Phantasm the other day and I was like wow this movie is Not For Kids. The malaise that movie leaves me with should not be experienced by a minor.
A little too late for me. I saw it in theaters when I was a kid.
"animation is only for kids"
These execs must be never watched a single anime before in their lives.
if I got to do an adult scooby doo show I would make a prequel with a younger Vincent Van Ghoul battling the forces of evil with him finding the Chest of Demons either in Series 2 or 3.
On the “animation is for kids” we can’t forget that video games such as Resident Evil or Silent Hill or any video game for that matter is technically animation- albeit a lot more complicated due to all the code and whatnot, but at the very foundation of it, it’s still animation. Resident Evil is a horror game franchise and isn’t aimed towards kids- most horror games aren’t. Games at their very core are for people to enjoy, maybe to get horrified or whatever the creator wants the player to feel- it’s the same way for a show or a movie.
There’s also Camp Camp as a good example of animation that isn’t for kids. It’s made by Rooster Teeth, and it’s supposed to be funny for adults while also looking like one of those “kids-only” cartoons
as an indian american born in kansas who has watch soocby doo as a kid im offended by new series
I haven’t seen this show but I’ll still gladly listen to you rant about it lol
Imagine the face of the poor soul that had to animate that bit of dialogue 😭 I hope all the artists are getting the money they deserve for having to work on _that_
It's funny because when you mention that people want the animated star wars shows done in love action and yet I want the opposite. I'd love to see the prequels redone with the clone wars cast and style, hopefully even rewritten a little bit. I'd choose animation over love action any day, the artistic options are endless with animation where live action is locked to reality no matter how creative it is.
If we're not careful, Velma could very well become the adult cartoon equivalent of Teen Titans Go.
It already is
Scratch that, it’s worse
ahem, big mouth.
Teen titans go the movie was good tho 😮
The Owl House in particular is definitely not "just for kids." You definitely feel the influence of more mature anime, as well as influence from Avatar, even though The Owl House is not even trying to be an anime. It kind of feels like the first conversation you'd have with your kid about something like WWII - you're not going to go into every detail, but you're gonna give enough surface detail to get the point across. That's how I feel they handled Belos - the show becomes way darker if you know the context and history around "witch-hunter" and know that he was probably a fascist puritan
It was surprising that you didnt mention about anime even once, except the cyberpunk part
Not enough people are talking about how fresh his jacket is tho.
Great video! I always love to hear your thoughts on industry stuff like this.
I'm so glad you shared in the same confusion I did over that line. It has not stopped bugging me
Weird how Disney has disdain for animation as a medium. Like I don't remember your company getting popular because of a real mouse?
I've seen a lot of animators, storyboarders,colorists, just basically the creative department of the show constantly needing to reminded the fans that they do not support the message of the show. With that in mind, it's honestly such a goated move on their part to produce it with passion still.
Animated projects are best when they’re made more for passion than profit
What’s funny is I checked out Mystery Incorporated and that did apparently take place in high school and involved several mysteries involving the character’s families and also romantic interests.
Velma wants to be an animation but ridicules the medium, wants to be Scooby Doo but insults the source material and want to be funny and important but is painful to watch. I honestly cant think of a single person this show was made for?
Some animation has moved me more than live action films. I still can't watch the Fox and The Hound. I'll always go back to Ace's scene with Batman for what that did to me as a kid
I feel like Puss in Boots came out right as Velma premiered as a means of giving it an absolute middle finger
this is a great video, and i agree with everything you said, but troy i need to know something
are you ever going to release that background track you use in your videos it is *so* good
I assumed the joke was that Velma assumed she knew what 420 meant, when she didn't.
Pretty sure most sentences that start with "Velma is wrong about..." are true.