Tactical Pistol Reloads, which technique works best?
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- čas přidán 10. 12. 2023
- Putting to the test the classic tactical reload vs other methods, which is the fastest, and which method will mostly likely work best in the stress of a real confrontation.
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Keeping your cool and not becoming that ten-thumbed caveman is fairly important. This is the "want to" reload, as opposed to the "have to" reload.
“You don’t become a window-licking caveman at the first sign of danger.”
I Love This Guy.
I'm with you on this. Real world shooting vs. range competition, there's a big difference.
Jeff, certainly appreciate your videos. The "Classic Method", as we have always taught it, (I instructed with Colonel Cooper and received my Master Instructor certification from him at Gunsite in 2000) involved placing the partially depleted magazine in the pocket or dump pouch and not the mag pouch which we always reserved for fully loaded magazines. This also speeds up the process as you're not having to attempt to locate the mag pouch for insertion under pressure. We did not teach the "Mag Out" (I like that identifier) as we wanted to minimize the time when the gun only held one round. Having said that, I believe it is almost 6 of 1 and a Half-dozen of another. Sorry to be long winded.
Thank you for your input,!!!
Immediately thought about just dumping your partially depleted mag in your pocket and putting in the fresh one to stay in the fight. Can always re-index and organize your mags later.
I taught for the Air Force and we taught the Tac Reload the same way and for the reasons you state here. Minimizes the time with only one round in the gun and "Pouches are for Full magazines, Pockets are for Partial magazines."
Learned quite a bit. Thank you for sharing
Love these types of videos you do, straightforward, to the point, and helpful. They give you some insight to consider when practicing.
I noticed one thing about classic reload Jeff, and please correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to retain the mag and re-engage as fast as you can, technically aren't you able to shoot as soon as you insert the mag before you do the extra hand motion of putting the mag back in the pouch? I mean sure, without a support hand firing isn't going to be as accurate, but I'd argue when you're using pistols the target you're engaging is probably close enough to be hit even only with one hand no?
For instance, 2:01 during the side by side comparison you can see the classic method had the fresh mag went into the gun a bit sooner than the mag out first method.
Yes that is the point of the classic, I bring it up but didn't use that footage or video.
Good stuff Jeff... Thanks
Another great video again! Thank you so much!
Awesome shooting and production Jeff. I like how you highlighted the mechanics of when and when not to tac reload, and broke down the geographic method down nice and simple. A saying goes; there are two things you never see in combat footage: Tactical reloads, and the proper use of optics!
Thanks!
Hello sir, I’d just like to say I appreciate you’re videos and really learn a lot from them. Considerations to think about when I go to the range. Thanks again
What I prefer about the ''Classic'' method is that the ''window'' of time in which there is no magazine inside the gun is much smaller than the ''Mag out first'' technique. Just my two-cents. I prefer being able to shoot with a mag in the gun and another still in my hand than being stuck with a single-shot gun.
I agree 100%. This was my point. Retention is secondary to having a gun up and ready.
Very interesting topic of discussion. I’ve seen a lot of shooters fumble reloads doing the traditional method in classes and competition. I’ve always done the hybrid method but I’m going to try that mag out and see how I like it.
That's my intent, create discussion see if there are better ways to do things
Great information as usual Jeff
I am going to check out those Nano tools
Really good video man
Very informative. Thanks.
When your tac reload is terrain based, i.a. before going into the next unknown, the pure speed achievable doesn't matter right? Up to a second longer seems to be negligible, if it were you would not TAC-reload.
And talking about time, your gun is way faster reloaded with the classic version. With the mag-out version you only have your one round left, with the classic you immediately ready for action.
And the old mag is where you could immediately use it again for a slide-lock reload if necessary.
Very neat stuff, thanks sir 😎. Hope for video about the ammo types u used when u were in the US military 🪖. 👀
love you content, eveything is very well explained. Thanks!
Thank you
I've always taught and performed Tac-Reloads as TomRussellatAFA describes it and for the same reasons. However, I really like your description of when to reload and your reminder to use cover/concealment when ever possible. In addition to teaching, I often take classes from other instructors and I'm surprised at how many don't mention use of Cover or Concealment in their classes, or if they do at all, it's when they give a reason for the "Range Dance" of taking a side step when reloading or clearing a jam to simulate moving to cover.
Thanks for the great content. Always happy to see your new videos.
What are your thoughts on the AR Mag pod? I get it for concrete, but putting them on all mags in plates, chest rigs, and belts might get bulky. Also, curious on how they work on less “prime terrain” dirt, mud, rocks, un level grass.
Thanks in advance!
I don't think you need then on every mag but 1 or 2 is good. They are great for competition shooting when you know you will have to shoot prone.
The students needs to understand why they are conducting the tactical reload in the first place. It is to avoid going empty. Remember, the pistol or rifle went empty while you were attempting to shoot your opponent, who is trying to kill you. The best tac reload training, is when during a course of fire, a simulated suspect down is called, this "prompt" will be an opportunity for students to chose to conduct the reload and they chose which style works best for them. Also, the student should be competent in one hand shooting, followed up with the emergency reload since the gun will not go to slide lock. A 3rd and fastest tac reload, is when you index the mag from your pouch, and "stage" it up next to the pistol as you are still able to maintain a two handed grip (people with small hand will have difficulty using this technique). Eject the old mag onto the ground, and insert the new mag which is inches away, run a shot timer and you can easily do it under 2 seconds.
I was taught long ago to use the pocket stow method for tac reloading a pistol. The rationale for the technique was based on watching many officer involved shootings where LEO's were taught the "Cigar" method but under stress defaulted to a simpler method. The trickiest part of this method for me when running drills was the magazine catching on the seem of my pants which would add our beloved "Fumble Factor". Thus placing the magazine in the rear pocket I think is preferable to the side pocket. My two cents on the topic 👍
Great video here
I took my 1st ever handgun class last year. Only training I've had before that was in the Army. Running my M4 I always did mag out first. So I did the same with my pistol during this class. The instructor was some Marine reservist POG. Kept telling me I was wrong for doing mag out and said I needed to do the classic method. I've been shooting handguns for a while but never had a class until then. Instructor ended up getting mad at me for not doing it his way.
Thanks for the video. Let's me know I wasn't doing anything wrong.
Last thing. I was in Logar 08-09
Fellow Logar vet! I bet it was just as shitty in 08 as it was in 2015! That instructor chances are, he never was put under pressure trying to use some of the techniques he is so adamant about. That is usually the case.. those who learned something one way and never put to real world use for some reason, seem to be the most resistant to other methods.
Of course before your support hand returns your already dangerous & can send lead downrange,& remember your only admin reloading if training,or in combat the scenario dictates that, remember sustained long gun fights aren't happening with pistols, it's emergency,self defense, EDC, thanks for insight Jeff your legendary
“Before I cross into the next unknown…” is a really good way to describe that decision making process that I have not heard before, and I’m an 18 year active duty SERE Specialist. I think I’ll bust it out for my class on Friday. I may taylor it to my students by adding, “…or as soon as the work you can see is done.” because they are aviators, and a pilot with a pistol in his hand has only two objectives, to return alive, and not commit any UCMJ violations.
Great video, but what about the fact that mag out first leaves you more time with an empty gun? What if someone pushes you or comes around a corner while you’re taking that mag out and putting it up? Mag out last leaves you less time and lets you still shoot while putting up your half full mag.
Another option that will make you faster. During a tac reload, instead of pocketing the partially loaded mag, simply drop it down the front of your shirt. The cops that I use to train, all had zippered uniform shirts and carried 3 mags on their gun belts. I would show multiple techniques and challenged the students to try them all to identify all the pros and cons of each. If an instructor ever says, "this is the only way" to do something, I pack my bags and leave, as training techniques are constantly evolving.
problem with shirt, if you do need its now down your shirt
Yep, one of the cons, but its faster than trying to put it in a pocket or pouch. I was never a re-pouch fan, as I want any mag coming out of a pouch to be at full capacity. I like your style when explaining the video subject matter. @@ModernTacticalShooting
Regarding the mag out first method, that is what I was taught many years ago and practiced for 26 years, 17 on a Federal Tactical Team. As a result, it is so ingrained that I probably couldn't change if I wanted to, and for what advantage? Also, I don't like the idea of handling 2 mags in one hand at the same time under stress.
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Mate, your awesome. Common sense is not that common these days. Well done
Thank you
Will you be doing a video on rifle tac reloads as well? Or is it same exact rules that apply?
Basically the same but I will be doing a video sometime!
A age long debate between a classic tac reload vs. reload w/ retention. People prefer classic tac reload because it minimize weapon down time(time where there's only one round in the chamber), but I always wonder if they can actually shoot and hit on demand with another mag in hand. After all it matters not if a round is in the chamber, nor a round in the magazine, but a round on target.
True
If you practice one handed operation like they did back in ww1 and ww2 as well as two handed there should not be any problem. If can hit something one handed with nothing in your hand then. 8t should not matter if you have a mag in your hand.
The tac load requires three things. A need to keep the magazine in the gun, a safe place to execute the load and the time to make the load. Missing any one of those means a speed load. The speed of a tac load it pretty much irrelevant, 3-5 seconds is fine. The object is to keep your eyes down range and have the pistol functioning as long as possible. So, the "mag out first" or reload with retention is not very good at keeping the gun running. Bringing the fresh mag to the gun first has a couple of advantages. First, you find out if you actually HAVE that fresh magazine, it has not fallen out of the pouch. The gun is back in action quicker, the time spent unloaded is much shorter. Place the partial magazine in a pocket, not a pouch, unless it's the only magazine you have left. That should be done by feel, not looking for the pouch/pocket, you should be looking downrange.
I submit that a pistol fight mostly calls for speed loads, I cannot point to a single incident where a tac load was involved in a pistol fight. I do know one occasion where a couple officers had a gunfight, were debriefed at the scene and sent back to the station, only to get in another fights, where they found they had not reloaded and their guns were empty. Fortunately, they were not the only ones on that scene.
Great input
Window Licking Caveman…. 🤣😂👏 awesome video sir.
Go to watch out for those window lickers
I can only speak from the airsoft stand point, but I will only tac reload when i have cover from a teammate. It’s a conscious decision, so only do it when it is safe to do so 🤷🏼♂️
What do you think about running the charging handle after each reload and ejecting whatever round has already been chambered ?
No need. Waste of time and perhaps needed ammo.
They way I see it, the key point of tactical reload is to keep the down time of the pistol to a minimum. Magazine out first method has the longest down time. Once the full magazine is inserted, I would consider whether if the partial magazine is reained or not and how long it took for all the motion to be completed would be a secondary consideration.
Exactly. Jeff is correct regarding the tactical reload on the flat range regarding time to return and have two hands on pistol and re-engage. However a tactical reload in a real world emergency is something you should probably be conducting from the safety of cover or in a brief moment of no current targets to engage. Therefore the classic version does keep the gun loaded much faster than the mag out method. In that case if another target presents itself I’ll fire one handed or just drop the other mag. But honestly doing this either way is probably not the thing that will get ya killed. I think both methods are absolutely valid and you can obviously get very fast doing magic out to the extent that the argument for either could simply be personal preference.
A quick question, I hope this does not come off as ignorant: Isn't the point of a tactical reload to top off when you have time? Therefore what is the point in doing a tactical reload that is 1 or so seconds faster than the classic version when time is not as important? The reason I ask is that you can have your gun loaded, on target and swap mag instantly and have far less time where the gun is without ammunition in it, vs your preferred method where you could be caught with nothing in the gun? The whole process is longer but the time in which the gun is without a magazine is much less. The classic method I could be still aiming my gun with ammunition in it one handed, do a really quick swap and mess around putting it in a pocket still holding the gun one handed with ammunition in it on target and the rest is done in my own time. You could then fire during any of that time that your 2nd hand is off the gun, where as you can't with your method. Or if a situation arrises just drop that partial mag instead of re-pocketing it and re-grip the gun. How is the one or two second time benefit better when it is actually longer that the gun does not have ammunition in it? I would even say doing a normal reload and dropping the mag and then after a few seconds just picking it back up off the floor (depending on your cover and situation) would also be better? Thanks for the videos.
The key to time: tac reload before going into the next threat or threats not wait on lull which has you waiting on the threat. Doing so will keep you out of the bad situation where threat could come up on you in the middle of a reload.
Why even do a tactical reload when speed is an issue? I would prefer to do them when I'm in cover or far enough away to not be taking shots. The only time I would think of needing to shave off that second from a tactical reload is if I was counting my rounds and knew I was on my last 1 or 2 rounds.
Seems easier with some sort of basepad?
I believe the classic method emphasizes less time spent with no mag in the gun as opposed to the retention. Meaning in the classic method the reload is a more important step as opposed to the retention part. While yes the entire action may take more time to complete, if it comes down to it you can just throw the mag you are reloading on the ground faster that it would take to finish the "mag out" method.
I guess it comes down to philosophy of use. Yes if you are looking for strict split times, the mag to pocket method is undoubtedly much faster, but if you wish to prioritize time spent out of combat readiness with only one effective round available for the combatant then the classic method is faster. Which one is better I would rally love to find out using an objective data study over hundreds of scenarios using thousands of reloads to study them more objectively, but I believe both of them do one thing better than the other, and the philosophy of use regarding which aspect of the reload takes priority is still a matter pretty much up in the air due to lack of objective data and it will inevtibly comes down to pure opinion.
Agree, I can only offer that when deployed I used mag out 1st exclusively, ....especially with rifle
I prefer the modified blackbeard New York reload. Carry lots of loaded pistols. Exchange them as needed as they run dry. When you finally run out of loaded guns scream like a banshee and draw your cutlass.
Convincing arguments, but are we considering the right metric? Time to complete the reload seems suboptimal vs time to rounds on tap. What i mean is that the classic or hybrid method spends less time with the mag out even if retention takes longer. You can always drop the mag or engage one handed if you are caught off guard with the mag still in. With the mag already out you are in a much worse position.
Yea my metric I chose was time only, but I think sure other metrics could be considered.
Why not pull the mag and the gun at the same time and hold the spare mag against the grip?
Reloading pistols has always been my bane. Gonna stop doing the classic method
One problem that I saw, and I imagine that you caught, is that when you are doing the 3 step method you look away from whoever the threat may be to find your pouch and secure the magazine that you removed from your weapon.
Yes I mention it in video
@@ModernTacticalShooting Sorry, I missed it. BTW, I’ve been using your videos and magazine articles to build a SOPMOD Block 1 and a Block 2 clone. I didn’t get to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan so this is as close as I’ll get. I didn’t use an Elcan though on the Block 2, my Block 2 clone is wearing an Aimpoint Comp M4 SF version. I like Aimpoints and I think that it’s correct, it was at least in the inventory prior to Block 2 so it can’t be too far off. Nothing against the Elcan, but those puppies are pricey! The Block 1 has an ACOG. JD was a friend and I used pictures of him and 574 to put that one together. We weren’t close friends, but we went through Robin Sage and language school together, then to 5th Group.
I always double-tap R (drop the magazine) when I reload. It's faster. ;) :P Escape from Tarkov. T_T Keyboard Warrior, that I am. :D
The part about the caveman completely blew me away
@ModernTacticalShooting hey Jeff, I'm a long time subscriber and old infantryman. I made a live action movie simulating a break contact drill, I'd love to get your opinion on it!
Another great video by you, btw!
Sure be happy to
@@ModernTacticalShooting thanks brother its my most recent vid. Feedback very welcome!
@@ModernTacticalShooting my response got censored. It's called CONTACT: FRONT!
I saw it, its really good.
@@CColumbus thank you.
However you firearm has no magazine in the pistol for a longer time. That said, I will give a try. I can see the + -
Non-stop laughter!
Bump
The classic method is better because a full magazine is in the gun faster.
It's not a race doing a tac reload, time and opportunity and seek cover or move. There are so many ways of doing it....
Comments
Practice practice practice is the word
It is.
Chubby is the war veteran, how is that excess going to hamper your tactical efforts?
Key is war veteran, I made it.
Tac reload = reload when gun is empty. Admin reload = reload when convenient.
In the military...Slide lock reload is when gun is empty. Tac reload as is in video, is topping of gun.
Some people are seriously and living in a world of anxiety.
Unless you are military/law enforcement why in the name of jaysus would you care about "tac reloading"
Plenty of examples of criminals often attacking in groups.
@@ModernTacticalShooting So you'd take a group of people on, thinking that you're johnny Rambo?
It also has applications in competition shooting, as Jeff mentioned in the video.
Why would you be trying to rush a “tactical reload” ever? I mean, these are only ever implemented basically once the threat has been neutralized and you are unsure of other threats, or if there is a substantial enough lull in the gunfight to give you time to reload.
Regular speed reloads are what happens in gunfights, when you are dumping, running dry and reloading a full mag on a empty one. Those are the fastest the best.
But a Tac Load? It’s to retain spent unfinished mags during a break of action
You are assuming alot, there is only one threat, it's neutralized. You mention lull, why wait on a lull as stated in the video, you are waiting on the threat actions. I say keep gun topped off as much as possible and do it fast.