Ethereum 2.0: Proof of Stake vs Proof of Work | Vitalik Buterin and Lex Fridman
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Vitalik Buterin: Ether...
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Vitalik Buterin is the co-founder of Ethereum.
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It's so refreshing to hear about the true technical details of crypto when most people dumb down the principles into popscience that becomes meaningless
Tell that to the complainers on the other clips of the 3 hour podcast that those same people complaining, won't be watching the full 3. Or listening. Or even have a job to buy or invest $ with. Lol.
I think if crypto is to evolve society, it needs to be widely understood first. This is challenging since the space is filled with technicalities but Lex has done a superb contribution by having these guests explain these concepts to the best of their abilities
@@alanraymundo A counter example would be the Internet. Majority of people on the planet don't know the technical details of the internet or truly even understand what it is(I know this also causes lots and lots and lots of problems on the Internet). And yet they are using it and have been radically transformed by it. And it's not like the technical details aren't open to the public. People just don't have the time and energy to put in to understand every aspect of their lives. For some things, they just want to trust some credible sources and move on with their lives.
The worst part about it is how confident non-technical people get and go about advocating something they don't understand well enough.
Most are simply happy with a very basic explanation or blind faith in a random youtuber
@@alanraymundo as the old past away, crypto: via vertue, will be accepted exponentially. Or you pass on society 😎
It's relieving to hear Vitalik explain how Proof of Stake is extremely secure and that Epstein didn't kill himself.
Except that's not what he said as to the later. If it was, I'd find that very concerning.
@@miketabacco5436 yeah that was a joke my friend.
@@miketabacco5436 It's sarcasm, dude.
proof of ponzi
@@miketabacco5436 He was making a joke about Vitalik selling out his creation to jp morgan
This interview is really, really interesting, as is Vitalik Buterin. This is the kind of person i'd love to have a chat with as he is kind hearted and very intelligent (like Gavin Wood seems to also be), and these personality traits are becoming too rare when you are "powerful" in the actual times.
Concerning ETH staking, sadly, i'm missing a few ETH to be able to participate without going through a centralized entity, but i can't wait for ETH 2.0 to be deployed.
After Satoshi lit the spark, Vitalik really revolutionized the world (with the help of Gavin Wood), let's see where we are going from here.
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
Wow...this guy carries bigger brain than his body can carry. Just amazing.
Inaccurate about the cost of attack. It’s much easier to come up with $15 billion and attack ETH, than come up with $13 billion and setup the infrastructure to attack Bitcoin. He forgot to mention that.
He conveniently glosses over practicalities for his overlords and clearly fails to understand physical infrastructure and the work that is actually applied to it that brings intrinsic value to PoW. The dude has never lifted a hammer in his life.
lex always asks the right questions
This explanation makes me more bullish on Bitcoin’s Proof of Work
Proof of Work is the most effective way to validate the financial transactions. You could be the most powerful person on planet but if you don’t play by rules, the system will kick you out in matter of minutes. Whether you are richest person or a blue collar worker, whether you are a privileged person in a developed country or you are living in poorest nation on planet, system doesn’t discriminate you, you get equal amount of right to validate all the transactions, the system keeps it fair for everyone...
Where as proof of stake represents the oppressor and the oppressed culture of our society where few powerful individuals decide the rules for rest of us, whoever has the highest stake in the system gets the right to make, change or bend the rules as per their needs...
Yes they may argue PoS uses less energy and less transaction fees but at what cost? At the cost of your individual sovereignty? The very reason why Bitcoin came into existence is to give you that freedom back but for some momentary gains, you want to give up on that?
What are your ideas then on whales who hold lots of bitcoin? Institutions and whales are entering bitcoin and will scoop them up before the masses adopt it (people like Michael Saylor). These early people will be the ones who benefit the most. I agree with your PoS vs PoW views, but does bitcoin really solve this oppression? The only thing i think it solves is decentralization from the government.
@@maccap4598 Valid criticisms. Whales have been in control since inception- weak hands hand over their coins to whales time and time again. As the market cap of Bitcoin grows with new fish (and whales) coming into the space, it will be harder to manipulate the markets. A few years ago, trading with leverage was only possible on (if I recall correctly) two exchanges. Today almost every exchange lets you do that which is another tool that whales can use to their advantage. So even though market cap has grown, we are kind of back to square one.
However, Bitcoin will become more important as a store of value over time looking at the macro economic conditions / great reset and less as a trading vehicle. So, whilst back at square one, the long term outlook is that whales ability to manipulate will reduce.
That's what I think.
@@maccap4598 even if they hold lots of coins, they can’t change a single thing, not even Satoshi himself without consensus. I don’t care if Michael saylor makes 100% on his money, because you know what I will make same return. I don’t think ether or any other coins have any restrictions on how much one address can buy.
All I care is that no single person or few whales should be able to change anything and which is not likely. We just saw with taproot that any upgrade won’t work without consensus and you won’t get consensus unless you are being fair.
Did you listen to Vitalik's explanation? In either system those who bring in the most economic resources decide upon the fate of the chain. With PoS it's obvious, with PoW it also becomes obvious when you think about how you would start mining and look at the numbers.
I recommend Vitalik's block. There he wrote the only system that doesn't favor richer individuals over poorer ones would have to rely on Proof of Personhood/Humanity. There actually are at least 2 chains taking this path.
Proof of work is the true decentralized cryptocurrency, if all this crypto coins will be Proof of stake, government already win. i really hate proof of stake.
9:40 Lex is awesome.
Beavis is a lot smarter than they portrayed him on MTV
i did not search for this video or search in these comments to laugh. But i did.
This is too smart for me, yet I'm somehow able to follow on a lower lvl, sorta.
That's a sign of great intelligence by the explainer. Especially when an abstract concept such as crypto is the topic of explanation.
But is it decantralized?
Ive been loading up on ETH! If you get 5 of them and they go to 50,000 or 100,000 by 2030 2035 youll be in good shape! Getting as much as possible!
Thank you
STAY TECHNICAL LEX
Vitalik decide it or community ! .....
Future ll tell, what is right direction
LOVE U LEX
pow= trust in maths
pos= trust in people
Keep an eye on that watch brah.. Next Rolex
I am convinced proof of stacke is going to be centralized!
Maybe it already is and nobody knows
How about trying to use logical reasoning to back your point?
Please don't redirect me to a 3 hr video that doesn't get to the crux of the conversation..
@@kevinteo8149 Relax dude smh
@@newempire158 Its frustrating when random non-professionals pretend to be scientists
@@kevinteo8149 czcams.com/video/e5ZlZ6Xfrqc/video.html
At 9:00 what does he mean with "burn their coins"?
you lose your coins
Proof of stake is a the rich get richer scenario
@Milton Arbogast Watch the Trader University YT channel (Sunday) video on ETH 2.0. It explains what everyone needs to hear but some don't want to hear.
@Milton Arbogast No, you are wrong. Watch Trader University ETH 2.0 Exposed video for the real truth
this is the definition of "preperation and planning accounts for 90% of success" now $ADA seems like way advance compare to $ETH
Xym look into it .
I’m not buying that a validator mode on ethereum 2.0 network is supposedly easier to run than a full node on the bitcoin network
It's a little bit more challenging because you need to make sure the node runs 24/7 without downtime, else you lose out on some block rewards. It's A LOT more easier and convenient than being a Bitcoin miner though. Securing the Ethereum network will be accessible to people, thus making it highly secure and decentralized.
@@cyrusadamrevilla3851I won’t bet on the security but it definitely won’t be as decentralized as the bitcoin network
@@putyograsseson It will be. Right now, it is extremely hard and tedious to be a Bitcoin miner, not everyone has access to mining Bitcoin. 70% of the Bitcoin network is centralized to China.
Proof of Stake fixes this by allowing all Ethereum holders to pool their Ether, no matter the amount, to a staking pool. That way, everyone can help secure the network.
@@cyrusadamrevilla3851 it’s not about mining but about the full nodes (which miners also run) that determine the network consensus, back in 2017 the miners who signaled for segwit2x didn’t get their proposed protocol changes even tho they had the majority of the hashrate
@@putyograsseson Full nodes can be run by literally anyone. I'm a computer noob and even I can run an Eth full node.
hoping I get to buy a graphics card once ethereum 2.0 is launched...
SAME
in the end vitalik decides where ETH is going not the community.
is that necessarily bad though? some level of centralization may even be necessary, especially in the short term.
@@dqw4w9wgxcq66 is that bad?! That’s a ridiculous question. It’s completely horrrible
2:38
With POW, whales have to actually spend capital on hardware to control the network. With POS they only have to buy ETH (for example). Eventually all the power, just like POW mining pools, will be centralised to a few powerful exchanges where the rest of us stake our ETH in. If both result in centralisation (anything to do with money will tend to centralise), then the one that consumes the least resource is the winner. I guess this is where POS comes in.
HBAR
Incorrect assumption, because hash rate doesn't give you veto power on the network's protocol. Stake, on the other hand, does.
Exactly. The barrier to having more power is far lower with POS
wish i could shart out some ether real fast
I wonder how he remains so cheerful. So many of the humans in Ethereum have been so disappointing in their behaviour and use of Ethereum.
they destroyed BCC but all the features from that coins was so ahead from its time....
If they were ahead of their time surely it would stand the test of time?
First person i slow down .75x....def makes a difference but when Lex talks sounds like Dj screw lol
If Pinocchio became human
This is a great advertisement for Proof of Work.
and for Proof of Stake. It's a cycle and now it seems PoS is the way to go currently, but eventually PoW will come into play again to decentralize the currencies
Does anyone notice his watch??? Its a pokemon watch lol
Very concerning the ETH foundation has the ability to “slash” coins.
Or print them at will
vishwanath butternun
His guest is a true freakin genius
So right now eth 2.0 is at risk because some entities have equal or majority stake in the network
XRP
if eth goes to pos i will swith to harmony one it's better, faster and APY is higher.
Also at 1 cent per coin
BTC and ETH are solving totally different problems at this point.
Btc is not solving any problems
@@salovamrani2084 That is simply not true. Users are transfering millions of dollars of value to each other with no trusted third party within minutes. There is no other solution for that use case.
@@mikestaub no other solution? Are you kidding? There are a bunch of different solutions for this purpose that a lot faster, lower fees etc. Btc is a "dino shit" with 7 tps and big fee.
@@salovamrani2084 There is no other crypto that is as decentralized as BTC, even ETH forked after the DAO hack. Don't get me wrong, I love things like Nano etc.
@@mikestaubWhen you are saying "btc is the MOST decentralised" what are you referring to? What makes you think like that?
I'm not defending eth here. 70% of its current supply are premined coins. And many other questions could be asked. In the fight btc vs eth in terms of decentralisation i think btc would win. But it has its own problems like bitcoin core control over the protocol, more than 50% of the hashing power is in the hands of several pools. I think there are better decentralised projects than bitcoin, but if you start digging every blockchain is far from perfect. But bitcoin is surly not THE MOST decentralised network
Is that a toy watch ?
Does POS make the whole thing less fair? When a small group of people has the most Etherium they get more and have more voting power and whatnot?
@Omega Zerothings like proof of history and things i still know nothing about. The only real difference with 'alts' and btc is than that btc has no captain that can press the red abort button?
@Omega Zero isn't btc the only true decentralized crypto?
@@bakfietsimam bitcoin is the only true decentralised system to date
@@bakfietsimam Yes, you can hear ALL the arguments on PoS and the conclusion is that PoW Bitcoin is a system which has more descentralization and fairness by far.
ETC is truly decentralized ..but with smart contracts
proof of stake is essentially central banking. Most of the shitcoins will just continue to centralize until defi on bitcoin layers makes them all irrelevant.
if it’s proof of stake it’s not decentralized at all that’s why i hate PoS.
Cardano started it... Ethereum soon follow to upgrade
Vitalik loves to shart
Proof of Stake would instantly make Ethereum a security. People with a stake would influence a network the same way people who own shares in a corporation would influence the corporation. There are many tests that show a coin using Proof of Stake is a security because the coin would have security like properties. It is a mistake to switch to Proof of Stake. Ethereum should keep Proof of Work.
That's why we still have Ethereum Classic...the original POW block chain of Ethereum 👀
32 ETH FOR STAKING? the president of my country doesn't have this amount of money...
PROOF OF STAKE= HUMAN.....PROOF OF WORK=MACHINE
PROOF OF STAKE = THE RICH GET RICHER, PROOF OF WORK = AVERAGE PEOPLE HAVE A CHANCE
People like to complain about the environmental effects of PoW, but nobody bats an eye on Google's massive servers running 24/7.
@@ZenTauren yea i agree with part of it but flip side stakin could be comparable storing data on those same servers
Shame for Vit someone is already beating him to the punch and also doing it with the largest airdrop in history, you took too long dude.
Who?
@@babylon.don88 PulseChain
looooooool
@@Koush88 wtf is a pulse chain sounds like another 💩 coin
@@erik-tea-bag isnt everything a poo coin if it isnt a btc. So Ye its a poo coin.
More podcast on aliens please
He’s wrong. A computer is not just an economic resource and this is not something to be diminished
A man with 150iq sat next to a 1500iq😂
Vitalik touches upon a very important aspect while discussing PoW vs PoS, and a deeper interpretation of what he says is that, if you look at the earth and how it is separated from the rest of the universe by vast space; and add in the factor that earth constantly receives energy from the sun totalling to several orders of magnitude of what we'll require over the next century, we start realising that it isn't actually energy that humankind will be in dearth of; it is *materials*. There are limited quantities of the metals on earth that are required to manufacture the hardware and once they have been utilised to manufacture something, the probability of reclaiming them would decrease (more cost & effort compared to mining them from an ore).
The real crisis that we will face, will be one of materials (at least until we start mining for those materials from passing asteroids that contain them, at least). Examples include bakelite and iron rusting over time. These materials are difficult to reclaim, given humankind's current capabilities.
Don’t worry E. Musk’s great, great, grandson/daughter will have that issue covered
vitalik makes a good point, but you miss the fact that energy isn't magically there for us (as some sort of sun-given miracle)... it is produced, it's part of an industrial process that emits waste and impacts the environment, just like material extraction and hardware manufacturing.
the crisis is not some future possibility, people living in extraction sites (for ex, mineral extraction for computer chips) are already living the ecological and economic crisis, and human explotation.
Steel will be replaced with something one day. Even 3D printing is going to be able to take something weaker then steel structurally for but reinforce it in a specific printing pattern designed for strength at a microscopic level.
ahhh.. that is why silvio micali of algorand solved this dillema. i go on algorand now. 😎
Eth is a grandiose science experiment and cannot be compared to Bitcoin. PoS is a move towards further centralisation and equates to nothing more than a digital fiat system with Vitalik as an overlord and single point of failure.
And what do proof of work systems do when the state shuts down the mining?
@@scottgreen132 they keep going
@@snuggleseal They did not keep going in china when the government switched them off. Proof of work has a physical footprint and hardware that can be seized by authorities. Proof of stake has nothing that cannot be migrated to another locality.
@@scottgreen132 oh really? So which coins network went down because of China? None.
@@snuggleseal is going "down" the only negative outcome? What happened to the price? Was a 51% attack more possible once the hash rate dropped?
Are you saying that requiring physical hardware for proof of stake is of no disadvantage? Does proof of stake offer any advantages over proof of work?
Sanshu Inu....to the moon
ADA 📈🚀🤑
Just bought more eth after listening to this
Lol
Cardano is going to heat Eth 2.0 to market. It’s what happens when you have an asshole Steve Jobs type in Charles Hoskinson running a project vs a guy who should be in the lab. Vitalik is the Wozniak to Charles’ Jobs.
@@New2Me170B Your bags must be heavy lol, Cardano is dogshit
100% Polkadot and Ethereum for me.
@@scottherron nice, you should look at getting some Solana. Yooo @H.G.3rd take notes, you’d be way better off without ADA and only ETH, DOT, and SOL.
This dude acts exactly how people think 'tech elites' act.
The more he speaks ( and super respect to Vitalik) the more Confidence I have in my XRP and it’s protocol
Ethereum 2.0
🧠 Brain food 🍲
POW >>
Fucking hell, I’m so dumb.... like.... really dumb.... like, dumber than Joe Rogan. That’s how dumb I am.
Vitalik looks like he just got released from a North Korean jail.
"You need some kind of authority". You all heard it right? It's NOT decentralised and it's NOT uncensorable. Lots of money to be made holding eth, but anyone who is smart will convert to bitcoin at some point.
You've got to be kidding me
Ooof. Vitalik is talking about how Ethereum 2.0 will STILL fork. Thats terrible! Algorand solves all of this.
honestly.
11:34 this seems like kind of a reckless way to design. By any standard really.
so gpu mining its gone be over ha :d nice
Nah, it wont be over. GPU mining will mine other alt-coins. The only difference is that GPU mining will not be anywhere near as profitable.
On a serious note though, Lex didn't ask the hot button issue here...
We want reserve banks around the world gone for obvious reasons of course, and Ethereum is creating one using blockchain technology,
What is Vitalik saying about that?
It's kinda like the Chinese war against Japan, Mao busy fighting intruders whilst Chiang Kai-shek fought the local army....
POW>POS
How about trying to use logical reasoning to back your point?
Please don't redirect me to a 3 hr video that doesn't get to the crux of the conversation..
If you understood it normally you would have one
@@kevinteo8149 POW I make money. POS I dont make money.
@@bmmmchichibmmm Thanks for letting us know. I rather listen to a scientist/researcher than some investor with vested interest/ heavy bias
Doesn't seem like that's the case for everyone else
Vitalik sings the praises of POS but ignores Cardano as a top coin !
Cardano is not POS it's dPOS. It has like 2000 validators. And when did he say anything bad about Cardano here? Do you think Cardano somehow pioneered POS? Plenty of blockchains have dPOS
For ethereum, they have to have a network as decentralized if not more than their current one. That's why they went with Casper FFG which required years of research and is live on beaconcha.in now with more than a hundred thousand validators, with unique addresses in 5 digits
Actually he complemented cardano and spoke highly of Charles. Big V said they've grown. Super team let's go!
Ugh... This is so far out of my realm. So buy it? Lol
@@trollimusprime8521 🤣🤣🤣 LOL!!
don’t involve yourself with things you don’t understand
Nerd stuff. 🤓 choose to listen 🎶 😆..
Oh you made a joke😃
Listen to him only could make you educated & intelligent more than 5 years in college..
TLDR; He's switching to proof of stake because it costs him less than proof of work, the rest is just a cool sounding distraction.
costs 'him' .lmao what
@@abeidiot Yes he's the creator of Ethereum
Look, the bitcoin anarchists have come out of the basement!
So no one uses these shitcoins? As usual people buy them hoping to get rich.
ETH IS THE FUTURE ❤️❤️❤️ THE KID IS A GENIUS IM FULLY INVESTED
@@trollimusprime8521 is everyone just pushing cardano in the hopes that it blows up cause they have a few thousand? Or can u explain why cardano is so promising.
Let's talk about why crypto channels are plauged with scripts and bots
Mrs Jane is legit and her method works like magic I keep on earning every single week with her new strategy
Wow I' m just shock someone mentioned expert Mrs Jane I thought I' m the only one trading with her
She helped me recover what I lost trying to trade my self
Yes I' m also a living testimony of expert Mrs Jane
Mrs Jane has changed my financial status for the best.all thanks to my aunty who introduced her to me
I think I'm blessed because if not I wouldn't have met someone who is as spectacular as expert Mrs Jane
Avalanche blockchain is proof of stake. Check it out. I’m working on an app that uses it. We switched from ETH.
Vitalik proving he doesn't get bitcoin at all while going out of his way to use big words 🤣
Ignorance and blind faith is strong in this one.
Cardano is going to win this battle in the longrun...
Proof of bullshit
Charles Hoskinson would be a much better guest
Algorand is the only real Pure proof of stake blockchain.
2 russian guys talking about capitalism
As Tech Lead would say. Genius boy wonder Vitalik. Cardano is so far beyond Eth now it’s over son.
what is CARBONO? clothing brand?
Cardano doesn't even have smart contracts running yet. Ethereum is light years ahead of Cardano
imagine quoting Tech Lead lol
Ethereum doesnt have POS. And smart contracts will be implemented in cardano far before eth 2.0 is out.
It's too bad you can't eat Eth 2.0. Maybe he'd gain some weight while adding some tangible use to crypto currency.
ZIL and XRP. ZIL already does what ETH is trying to do at a fraction of the price. Just like XRP does what Bitcoin does but better. When you can transfer 50 million for .40 cents. I would have to say XRP shits on Bitcoin and ETH. People buy hype, crypto is proof.
POW= IOS
POS= ANDROID
4:49 It's called capitalism.
SHIBA INU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can someone please give him some food please, his arms look like someone has been starving .
Hookers and Cocain will tend to do that.
Or vegan?
Sadly Aids , drug addiction and vegans kinda look the same so it's hard for me to tell.