Proof of Work vs Proof of Stake: Pros and Cons | Charles Hoskinson and Lex Fridman
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2021
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Charles Hoskinson: Car...
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GUEST BIO:
Charles Hoskinson is the founder of Cardano, co-founder of Ethereum, a mathematician, and a farmer.
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proof of stake is fiat 2.0 in disguise
sorry I meant to say fiat on testosterone in disguise
What great timing with this video. Exactly what I was reading, and learning about just yesterday.
Can you post the link ?
Charles Hoskins will never give you a true straight honest answer on POW vs POS.
He's got a lot of stake.
Someone explain to me how PoS does not inevitably lead to a 97-100% outcome of centralization? He brings up the Gates analogy. But he's leaving out the fact that Gates basically became the richest man in the world from holding 64% of the shares, thus giving him the utmost amount of power in decision making, before this "spreading out" of ownership. Every shareholder did not have 64% of MSFT to begin with.
I will start a coin and I will take 65% of it when it becomes the global dominant currency I promise to sell it for trillions of dollars worth of other assets, entire nations states at my bidding, the largest homes, boats ect. This is the best way forward because when I sell all but 5% of my coin ( leaving me still an absurd amount of equity 5% of BTC is like 20BLN) it will be further distributed
it does. pos is like fiat.
To maintain ownership, the group/person would have to keep on buying because more people will join the network. If no one joins the network the staking rewards are proportionately distributed to current stakers but if more people keep on joining the rewards get distributed which dilutes their ownership.
PoS is centralised 😭😭😭😭
ETH goes to zero in 2035
Basicly in pos more money has more chance to make money again just like banks pooling money together . Big money wins , so no new invention there at all .
I prefer proof of steak...way more tasty.
If you have steak bro you better show me proof
You really can't prefer stake over work. There is a tradeoff.
My mom prefers proof of twerk.
@@Ctworld15 Nope, your mom prefers proof of abortion.
@@TheFsWorx lol
Clear explanation.
Bill gates had to sell stock to grow the company. Why would vitalik have to sell ethereum?
If you design the parameters correctly ASIC-resistant coins like Monero and Wownero that are pure POW are the ideal distribution mechanism because there are no patented ASICs, everyone can mine, it furthers decentralization more than a synthetic POW for the simple reason that founders and early adopters don't have an outsized share or free pre-sale premine coins that enable them to retain their stake indefinitely. Synthetic POW or POS does not interact with physical models of the universe I cant use synthetic energy in one system to derive real energy and work ( value) from another. More importantly POS is not thermodynamically sound, cryptos value comes in part from the relationship between the cost of production and relative difficulty, it is the energy that makes the basis for the cryptos value if one can get coins freely for simply owning other coins then the distribution represents free energy and defies the laws of physics. The distribution in POS gets locked in with founders always able to retain the same % until they choose to sell because they can use what they have to get more. This analogy that founders controlling a coin from the start leads to further decentralization in the same way Bill Gates used to own 65% of Microsoft now he owns 5% forgets to address the fact he traded those shares for one of the largest shares of wealth on earth and I'm sure that wealth would be much more distributed today if early on Microsoft was a coop or something run on POW. If Satoshi retained 65% of the Bitcoin it wouldn't make the system better or more decentralized.
Make it short 😭
Solid but you could just say people can't control the supply of money for no work.
POW and POS Can Work Together like Life Insurrance and Universal Healthcare!
Exactly thats why i dont like pow as much or at all really
BTC price down all POS, POA, POSpace price down to , so?
So it's good time to buy PoS Alt Coins with great future as they will pump 2x - 3x higher than BTC.
@@tonyvu2011 FOOL
BTC will eat up all altcoins
BTC now supports smart contacts
And it'll hit $1M by 2030
@@summerbreeze5115 energy prices have gone up more than 80% everywhere and BTC mining has been banned in China, by this time next year energy price will go up by more than 200%, there will be a massive global recession bigger than the Great Depression and crypto won't recover until 2031 at the most optomistic estimate. I sold out of crypto at the peak in 2021 to buy gold and silver ;)
@@summerbreeze5115 BTW anytime there is sudden rise in crypto prices, that's when the short traders take profits, giving false hopes to the fools just to make more profitable short trades shortly after :))
@@tonyvu2011 The energy problem is a myth.
mmmm Steak.
Its funny how people say the rich get richer in pos since its proportional to your stake but forget PoWs mechanics. PoW block production is proportional to your hash / asic hardware in bitcoin. Its basically the same thing just instead of making people buy asics from bitmain you cut them out and use the stake directly. Futther in PoS EVERYONE makes the same amount of money. The smallest holders and the largest always get a constant 5.5% on ADA. If a whale owns 2% of the PoS network after 500 years of staking they STILL will only have 2%. With asic PoW mining the largest pools get larger and larger since they can keep buying more and more asics / datacenters and conglomerate while smaller pools die off. PoW is no way near fair. A system where anyone can be a stakepool for minimal hardware and where everyone delegating earns the same % is much more level playing field.
I would rather put value directly into PoS rather than having to deal with acquiring a GPU/ASIC, all the PC parts, internet bill, power bill, a place to provide stable mining production. You spend considerably more in a PoW system than a PoS system. Furthermore, Cardano has game theory mechanics and incentives to ensure better participation and tokenomics than a bare bones PoS system.
@@dawnphantom2439 the only winner of current btc mining seems to be bitmain. They have the patents and produce half the worlds asics (also run one of the largest pools for btc and Eth.) Anyone who can say btc is still decentralized either has an agenda or doesnt understand the state of the market. With cpu and gpu mining it is a bit more fair but definitrly not asic / bitcoin. Its a game only for rich mining firms and / or a small group of wealthy early investors. Plus when you look at the pools for btc right now they are slowly centraliizing due to rising energy demands and lower btc rewards with each halving. Its not ideal for long term.
Ur totally wrong, at least with pow u have to make an investment outside of the network. Sure neither one is perfect but my bet is that PoS will fail when they get under attack
@@kevinzhu6465 there are definitely tradeoffs, but why would it matter how much BTC you have if the hashrate is what actually matters for control, and that rate is determined by how many ASICS you can have up and running at the same time. Ultiamtely, only large private institutions and government institutions have the wealth and power to create such energy output consistently for long periods of time. The ability for regular people to participate collectively in a PoS system is much easier and sustainable, if every DCA's for example, they don't have to worry about massive facilities. Also, nodes are easier to maintain and run, even on a Raspberry Pi, so people in developing countries could also easily participate.
Beautiful explanation! 👌
DO NOT DESTROy DAISy CHAINS!!!
lol
What about Proof of Authority?
ALGORAND
algorand what?
DOGE COIN
@@Knarft bruhh
To the moon ofcourse 🔥😊
he talking about what is job of relatives of he's husband
Not all these coins are expensive. Some of the coins I stake are: VersionCoin, HoboNickels, HODLCoin, Stronghands, Mintcoin, Elite (was 1337), Noblecoin, InflationCoin, and Proof of Stake coin. You want to find a coin that will get you stakes within your budget. Some coins are only on one exchange and Coinmarketcap doesn't always list much information. Look for more information on BitcoinTalk, the forum Satoshi himself started and his posts are still present there.
POS coins have 0 value because they are not based on energy and fundamentally come down to an attempt to use tokenization to create free economic energy without any work and it benefits the rich more than anyone else because if you give everyone 5 % more for every token they hold they hold the exact same % of the total they started with, its inflation masquerading as dividends and a horrible no good money system.
Best explanation I’ve heard
he's business
At 4:03 he definitely shoots himself in the foot. Lex replies immediately and shoots him on the other foot. Then the poor man starts enumerating the difficulties that proof of stake encounters.
@@gilian2554 He does, since he highlights precisely THE power of PoW, which of course PoS will never get: big hardware investments with big energy consumption in a specific geographic location. Hard to buy, hard to set up, hard to keep running, hard to move. Nobody can fake it, nobody can do the same work with a "clic" like in PoS. Lex pointed this out to him, yet Charles didn't reply at all and tried immediately to show that PoS is "anyway" robust, instead. From 4:03 all of this is SO apparent.
@@danc1873 He's on marijuana
"Engineers lead when scientists should have lead" scary statement.
so wrong. sell your PoS coins until it's late
This interview really helped me understand cryptocurrencies better. BULLISH on Cardano!
All the proof of work miners in denial in the comments haha
It appears that all these cryptocurrencies are not equally benefitting everyone in the network. The large node developers get most of the profit by marketing the benefit of cryptocurrency. Most people who use crypto entity are not able to have their own nodes. Rather they are there to use the network while paying to the few developers who can have large node. This goes to both proof of work or proof of stake. Why can everyone who uses the network gets the same benefit? The large node owners use the users who are brainwashed to believe in that the network keeps the store of value while paying the fees to the large node holders. Those who cannot have a large node just believe that someone else will enter into the network later to increase the value of the coins they hold. There is definitely an element of pyramid scheme. The person who developed WWW did something more admirable, not interested in profit taking.
In contrast to the WWW, you do understand we are talking about a monetary system here, correct? Every monetary system is based on capital one way or the other, and human nature drives us to said capital. Your proposition is kind of like a utopia where no one is interested in gaining money.
Counter to your point, if you look at Bitcoin for example, many of the devs are contributing out of their own volition with no big financial gain. They may hold coins, but they are not getting some unproportioned reward for their work, and they definitely do not run mining rigs. Your comment is kind of clueless to be honest.
@@Firstname_Surname what is WWW btw?😀
Bitcoin PoW was a lot better in 2009-2010 but not until the 51% attack
There was not much competition so there was no need for that gigantic consumption of hardware and electricity, just to beat each other at solving maths like now, such a waste of resources!
u have no idea how useless a 51% atk is, doesnt give you control of the network, you can just halt it wich is insanely expensive.....
A 51% attack is highly unlikely… like
51% attack
Reminds me of uncle Elon (Musk)
Do you know what actually happens at a 51%. A fork. The OG bitcoin stays the exact same and you have the exact same amount in it. A new "bitcoin" is also created that you also have the exact same amount in but has different rules. So after all the effort of a 51% you still get to vote what you want with your money.
I don’t know i do not believe a word he is saying
A Hybrid of POW and POS is key #Zilliqa $zil