Installing a DRO on a PM-940 Milling Machine - 4-Axis EL400
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2021
- Today I'm installing an Electronica EL400 4-Axis DRO on my new Precision Matthews PM-940M milling machine. This install is going to require a bunch of custom work, so today we'll go over the design and start making the parts we need for the install.
Tools used in this video:
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2" Kant Twist Universal Clamp (Amazon*): amzn.to/2UG76wv
YG-1 3/8" Alu-Power end mill (eBay*): ebay.to/2ssO9iv
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nice work! that PM looks like a nice size mill.
I guess you saw I totally stole your fix-it-in-post gag. Thanks for the inspiration. :)
@@Clough42 perfect application & flawless execution!
New Tool envy detected !
you two cant be chit - chatting! your video's are my excuse for not finishing the projects i start!
Well Tony, we can't ALL have Maho's... or wait maybe I could post a Maho into MY shop!
I once spent around 8 hours making, remaking, remaking....etc etc an item I could have purchased for less than $20. Someone ran their mouth about “why didn’t you just buy it?”
Because I now have the skills to bore tapers on my lathe, quickly and accurately, that’s why. Learning skills and doing good work is never a waste of time. 😉
I think a majority of the time I spend in the shop is learning how to do things, as opposed to actually doing them. When I do something unfamiliar for the first time, it takes longer. Once I get it figured out so it runs smoothly, it gets boring and it's time to learn something new or add on a few more layers of complexity.
@@Clough42 what I find amazing is how something that takes hours to do the first time, takes minutes the next.
@@chrisj4570g Well said !
@@scottyshaffer6103 I agree completely, I estimate I have spent about 16 hours fabricating the parts and redisinging the parts that came with the power drive for my mill table but I wanted it to look and function like it was built for it.
19:36 Ah yes, the ol' "Flip it in post" trick. 😂
I'd just turn it inside out, just sayin'...
I've only noticed the Notliw vise. Is that a russian brand?
@@torstenb5248 No, it is a Factory Second from Wilton, and it's problem is the vise can only be loosened...
I agree, attention to detail even when just making a bracket, why not 👍
I appreciate you both showing errors and explaining how you caused them. That is a good thing to show.
Those who criticize your skills probably don't have enough of their own. Just sayen
I Love that you take the time to make every piece you make to the best of your ability even when precision doesn’t matter.
I love that you explai the WHY and not just the HOW. Thats very appreciated. Thanks and keep up the good work !
Don't you ever STOP doing your mill work with the accuracy you use, I do it the same way just to keep my brain active and use to using the thousands scale and ten thousands scale and using it often helps and those who dont know will learn just from watching you.
It's called target _practise_ for a reason. I'm with you, take pride in your work and always strive to hit your targets.
You stated that you want to "crank the handles", then immediately turn on the power feed and stand back and watch it run. Cranking the handles if fun, until it isn't. Thanks for the time and effort of making these very good videos.
He isn't lazy. He just knows when it's time to stand back and let a pro do the work /s
I'm glad you took the time to explain your view about doing the most accurate you can do. I salute you for working to your best.
On day one in Union Elevator school in our print reading course we were repeatedly taught do Not Ever scale directly off of plans and I've never forgotten that.
Your comment about not needing to hit critical sizes was spot on. I also have a hobby shop with mill and lathe and am always challenging myself to hit target dimensions. One day I’ll need them.
You've inspired me to get this exact mill instead of the PM-728VT. After watching the first setup video and the info you provided about it's rigidity I'm now convinced that this is the one i wanted. Thank you man for educating newbie like me.
The classic page scaling on the drawing problem...been there a couple of times. Your philosophy re accuracy is spot on, choosing appropriate degree of tolerance to optimize production speed is only an issue in a production environment, if you have the luxury of time then spend it. The satisfaction of creating a thing well made is priceless.
James, I agree about doing to best job possible, when it is your project. I've made a few parts for street rods and laugh at myself when I spend most of a Saturday making parts that, once installed, a person has no way to see them unless they are taking the car apart! LOL We know what they look like! I enjoy your videos and even though much of your work, especially in the electronics and controls areas are above my head, I still enjoy watching and hopefully I will learn a little from each one! Thanks again.
Aiming for the target is good practice. But yes in some cases close enough is good enough. But even the numbers you're shooting for are only as accurate as the first ones taken when you drew up the model. I think you do a great job showing the skills and techniques needed to do these projects. Keep sharing James, thank you.
Happy New Year James!
Pride in your Craftsmanship is so important, keep it up!
We see this when we inspect the the unseen areas of piece and find the accuracy and finish just as good as the areas that are in plain sight.... those of us that get much enjoyment from what we make and do, practice and strive to achieve our best level of craftsmanship and attention to detail on a daily basis.
Best regards
Ralph
Mate, loved your comment about the precision thing, spot on.
I have always said, aim for perfection, and if you are a little bit out, you are ONLY a little bit out, aim for near enough and: Well you can guess the rest. Keep up the good work buddy.
I wrote something similar, then, reading through the comments and came across yours. I've left mine in but just want to recognise you were 1st.
Nice video James. Your going to like that DRO. I just bought a used mill with my first DRO. An older plain style with out any
fancy bolt hole circle calculations or anything. I love it. Much more convenient then going off the dials.
Good video James.
As far as it goes, you're an engineer and you make the parts to the best of your ability.
Which is the actual name of the game.
You obviously take pride in your work, and it shows.
Keep up the good work and ignore the negative comments. 🇬🇧🇬🇧😷🤔
I fitted a 3 axis DRO to my Bridgeport. what a world of difference. it made the machine more user friendly 100% The quill and knee compensator is a god send. Your Mill looks a nice sturdy looking outfit.
All the best 👍🏻
LOL, I'm glad I didn't know this when I started my career as a Machinist. Never even saw a DRO for 5 years while working. (yes I get it's a joke)
Randy's dovetail cutters are excellent and you won't be disappointed.
I absolutely love your outlook on why to be fussy and actually hit the tolerances even if it does not matter. I am a Cnc programmer and even if my drawling says I have .02 I still work to nominal. In the end it pretty much takes the same time so why not challenge your own skills every time!!!!
My old mill dials for the X-Y is 0.125 per rev, the quill (Z) is 0.9 per rev. I installed a DRO and saved my sanity!!!! Enjoy your new mill and DRO.
I installed a Mitutoyo,3 axis,KC DRO on my Jet JTM-2 mill ,over thirty years ago. I love the accuracy and,versatility.
I started as a Machinist with NO DRO...it was a Great learning experience you learn about Backlash and Counting your turns
Great video! Really appreciate you taking the time to explain what you are doing, and why. Just getting an old Logan lathe setup to start learning. Keep up the great work.
Do what you want sir!You're learning a new machine by starting out with a project...What better way to add to your knowledge to excel in your hobby!
It's your hobby, you spent the money if your happy that's all that matters. Happy new year from the UK .
Forget about the haters ....Really like you your presentation style along with the light humour ,fast becoming a fan 👏👏 .I'm jealous of your shop .
At 34:00 on completely agree. Excellence can (should) exist everywhere. Looking forward to see the dro working.
HAHA Love the TOT reference! He's a genius for error correction in post!
Nice videos James! You certainly put a lot of effort into what you do. I always feel like I’m pushed for time and make most of my parts on the fly with minimal sketches. I should probably take the time to model my projects once I know they’re working the way I intended them to.
Looking forward to part 2.
Hi folks, this, along with Stefan's masterclass on edge finding, is what finally persuaded me to get a DRO kit for my mill. Not yet fitted (March 2021). I went with a magnetic scale system as it is more compact than most. So I had hoped to fit the X scale axis on the front but with the chip shield it's not possible due to the table power travel limit switches. I've got a way cover behind the table so James' bridge idea looks very enticing. I bought the bench vice (ok, vise) folders from the US as well to make some of the brackets. Very good bit of kit. BobUK.
@ 30:50 I couldn't agree with you100% more, some people not happy unless they have their little gripe, Its good to see you go the extra mile or is it kilometers to make a good job out of it, well done James, keep up your excellent work, it really nice to see, cool work!
Nice machine. Great narrative and video.
Thanks for sharing.
Wonderful watching you work. You instruct and inspire. Thanks.
I had installed a DRO on my G0704 and many of the same things you show I had to do also. The covers had to be cut down and I did the same, clamp to the table and run the slitting saw, I was able to utilize the brackets that came with the kit by cutting out what I needed from them, they where nice thick angles but the holes and slots where in the wrong place. I watched a lot of videos before tackling the job and each one tackled the Y axis differently, some had slab sides others had a slant, I see your has a slant with a protrusion at the rear so I can see why you went with the mouthing system you did.
I like your new mill, nice!
Great work as always, it's your hobby, take your time, hit your marks and enjoy it, am glad you share it with us.
‘Why worry about accuracy and precision?’ - because. How you do anything is how you do everything.
Keep up the great work! I’m putting a 3-axis DRO on my old Millrite Turret and I like your TIG Y axis mount. I’m taking notes. Aloha 🤙🏼
Nice! Liking that new mill. Thanks for sharing!
Happy New Year to you and your family.
Always do the best job you possibly can. I love how thorough you are. Keep doing it. Ignore the haters.
Enjoyed your video on producing DRO mounting hardware as I am doing the same for my 1960’s Clausing table mill. Having to make all my hardware to get it to fit. I do agree with trying to hold parts as close to target size as possible as it gives you confidence of what your machine can do. Like you I am a hobby type retired guy recovering my skills as a tool maker from 40 years ago. One suggestion I can make , Please remove your wedding ring and wrist watch as they can present a personal safety hazard to you when you least it expect it to happen. Love the look of your shop, wow lots of space for machines and very clean. Thank You for your efforts. BB
Really agree with your comment in regard to working precisely at all times. Folks who do machine work for a living and have the skill set that goes along with doing machine work as a full time occupation can afford to be a little more relaxed as to tolerances on non critical parts. But for those of us who are hobbyists, if we don't attempt to work as precisely as possible and attempt to hit every dimension exactly, when it really counts we won't have developed the skills necessary to machine the part within the required tolerance and may not be able to produce an acceptable part. Keep on doing what you are doing!
Nice work James. I'm like you, even if it is not needed, I try to meet demanding tolerances in order to improve my skill set. Greetings and happy new year from Geneva Switzerland 🥂
Nicely done, James!!! Happy New Year to you and the family!
Good for you on setting up and learning how to hit your targets. There are a lot of hack machinists who dont care about it and do it for a living, not as a hobby.
I have had scales mounted on the front and the back of the table, and both can have issues. I know it's a LOT of work, but check out how Robin Renzetti mounted his inside the machine. X under the table, and Y inside the base casting. Total protection, best accuracy, and not in the way. I like to think that I will do it that way if I ever have to do that again.
New mill is nice! I've been wanting a dro on my little enco so this will be of great value. I have some of the chinese deburring wheels and dont know how I've worked without them.Think I first saw them on 357 Magdad. Totally agree on being accurate, I'm a hobbyist too, and anytime I have time in my shop I try to better myself on any project no matter how mundane.
Nice work. Really nice mill. Thank you for sharing.
Another great video James..I don't have a mill but still find these videos interesting.
Happy new year. Great work. Makes me some what envious.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the watch!
You are absolutely right about trying t hit the target dimension every cut. Otherwise, you get complacent and when it counts, it usually trsults as a unnecessary remake. Take pride in doing exacting work, a sheet metal worker can get by with the 1/8" tolerances.
I agree with you. If you have the time to go to tight tolerances it is good practice.
I like your explanation why you try to hit close tolerances when it's not important. I work in the same way in my homeshop. Just to find out how accurate i can be with my really old machines (they all are +50 years old. exept for the newest one, a NC vertical machining center from 1975 🙂.
Keep up the the good work!
I really liked the electronic leadscrew project. I have to get one of those for my old turret-lathe.
Adam Booth said in a video many years ago: "It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's okay if it is."
"A mill isn't a mill until it has a DRO?" Whomever said that just isn't a machinist, maybe. I've been running my mill with the dials since the mid 1980s, and fulfilled milspec and aeronautics contracts just fine with no DRO, thank you.
Learn the trade. (I don't mean you, Clough. You are doing a good job of things.) I just mean before there was such a thing as DROs, battleships got built. Fighter aircraft got built. M1 Garands got built. Tanks got built, as well as automobiles, refrigerators, 120 story elevators and escalators got built. People just learned how to use the machine tools they had available, including how to actually read dials and compensate for backlash, and it was no big deal. It was part of the trade, as I was/am.
I agree with your prsision. I work on graphic equipment and I get yelled at at work because I am to practice some time. And I tell them if do I right now it's going to save me time later when you have trouble setting up and I have to recalibrate it properly. But you should clean the mill after the cuts
Very nice, accurate work, this is the way.
Nice work. I totally relate to your sentiment about why doing things to higher standard than required is a good mindset. I had occasion to reply to similar criticism on a forum. This is my orientation: We each have our own orientation in pursuing a craft such as this. For me, this is a journey of continuous learning, problem-solving, and perfecting skills. Taking the KISS approach often does little to enhance those aspects.
I am often equally baffled why someone pursuing a hobby or craft would consistently take the cheap and expedient path. In so doing, they miss an opportunity to experiment, grow, learn, and be rewarded with the immense gratification of tackling and succeeding at something previously beyond their grasp. In my avocational pursuits, faced with something easy and something challenging, I will consistently pick the latter. To do otherwise is a shortcut with hollow reward and bypasses the chance to do something exceptional.
Perhaps, as the acronym KISS suggests, that renders me “stupid” in the minds of others. So be it. I do as much as I can to live up to excel. This path is not always easy or expedient, but despite the hardships, frustrations, and occasional disparaging remarks, I’m better for it. Paraphrasing one individual with greater determination than my own, “We do it not because it is easy, but because it is hard.” This, I believe, is the source of enhanced achievement
Missing those safety glasses when using the mill. lol but you figured it out.
I saw that too! Made me nervous watching that part of the video.
Blah Blah Blah
Simply outstanding!👍👍👍👍👍
A DRO isn‘t a DRO until it has a Mill!
What if its a lathe ?
A Bro isn't a Bro until you've made chips together.
That is very powerful editing software that can reverse a mirror image part to the correct orientation. 😂😂 Thanks again James!
I had to go on disability after 25 years mostly on the Bridgeport and I wish I had bought a mill back when money was good. I spent it all on toys which are long gone now. I guess watching is better than nothing.
Nice work! Next up will be mastering TOT's time travel techniques. Massive thumbs up for hitting the numbers on inconsequential dimensions. If you want to really piss me off, do a sloppy job and then tell me you "can't see it from my living room." Quite aside from the skill building aspect, getting into the habit of doing it right every time is a goal in itself. The thing I tell my apprentices is that EVERY detail of EVERY job should be done to a level of craftsmanship they would be proud to display in the boss's living room. If you get into the habit of getting every detail right every time, you won't even notice the one time it really mattered. I also expect to see three stages of development, and in exactly this order: Stage 1, Get it down (learn the basics). Stage 2, Get it right (hit the numbers every time). Then and only then are you qualified to move to Stage 3, get fast.
Sorry, I just went through this with a carpenter. End of rant.
I totally get and agree with your comment about precision. If you never practice and use the should necessary to do precision work correctly how will you ever do in it when it is critical? Thanks again James I really enjoy your content!
Great video. I have a PM 940V so this is some good info.
I agree with aiming small. For me, just learning from yourself, Blondie, Abom, Max, Tony and the ocasional others, I've been able to make some parts very close on worn out stuff. Also learned how to fix stuff I messed up. I'm 70 and just starting in the last year & 1/2. Built a milling machine out of junk that holds my lathe up so I can use the power feed from the lathe for the table bolted to the cross feed. Not rigid enough. Soon, they will have an ELS.
Excellent attitude.
Enjoyed! Always look forward to your videos. I don't know why the is a thumbs down choice at all. if you don't like the video, don't watch it. Keep them coming
What you said makes perfect sense......if you need to make it to a size them make it to a size and you'll always be able to.....practice makes perfect.
When you finally get around to raising your mill, I hope you consoder raising it with a spacer between the mill and base as well as at the floor. Mime is raised a total of 4" at the floor. I'm thinking about how to raise it with spacers between the mill and base and still keep swarf out of the cabinet. It would be nice to have the extra room when locking the y-axis.
Love your videos...I want you whole setup!
That's a really nice mill!
Great videos! Very inspiring
Darn it... now I think I'm leaning towards the PM-940 as well, only because any mods and upgrades you make for yours, I can easily follow along.
Well said take the time to make things right ,you could have bought it but were is the fun there and you got the machine there
Nice job done. Waiting for your videos.
Nice work. Heres a suggestion, lay a rag on top of your finished part when prying it off. It will keep it from flying off when the super glue gives way.
Nothing is a waste of time if you are setting yourself up for success. I’m the same way with 3D printing and am thinking of moving from IT to making chips for a living. I just wish I could meet some of you guys I watch to find out if it’s right for me.
James, that mill is a merical machine. It will probably make parts without anyone being around? Just kidding. It is a beautiful piece of machinery and I will bet you make some accurate parts on it after you get the DROs all on it and working. You had one really nice Christmas, hope you have a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Very nice and informative video!
Hey thanks for such an amazing video. I just recently purchased a 932M and cannot wait for it to get here. I was curious if you'd consider a quick tips and tricks video for creating such an accurate model in fusion. Id love to create a working model for my 932 when it gets in, but not really sure where to start. Again thank you so much for the awesome content!
Also... thanks for explaining the advantage to a climb cut in this particular scenario. I think that's something that hints at coming across intuitively... but its nice to hear in words why.
James, another great video, you look a little hunched over operating the new mill, maybe raise the machine a couple of inches to relieve your neck/lower-back muscles. You can still utilise the isolating feet into a heavy duty frame underneath.
I had one of those a few years back....It was a good mill, all it needs is a one shot oiler. It’s a good mill for a place with a low ceiling.
Yeah...I was surprised it didn't have one. I have a spill master cup full of way oil and it's reasonably quick to oil it before use. The Z screw is the most annoying.
@@Clough42 Down the page, Keith Fenner was mentioned. Consider following his lead again and build a custom 1 shot oiling setup. Mr. Fenner did that on his Rutland lathe.
Good on you mate...do what you want not what others think.
Well, my conclusion from this video is that when I finally shop for a mill, I'll be looking for one with a DRO (or at least the slides) already installed.... Cool project.
Just make sure, that the mill isn't in the shot with the mirrored part, because if it flips too, you will again have two wrong parts.
Pro tip.
16:45 I think you are the first youtube channel I've seen using a tapping block when hand tapping. 🙂
Spot 30:50 to 31:57 is an example of the craftsmanship spirit. The competition is with one's self.
I like that. That's a good way to put it. The competition is with one's self. That's how I feel about the gym as well.
Thanks for the video, I'm currently setting up the same mill albeit the variable speed model. I was surprised how big it is. I have had to do some changes in my small garage to accommodate it but it looks really good and cant wait to get it up and running. I agree with your points about accuracy. I think it is a bit sloppy otherwise and like you said, you are in no rush.
regards Gareth
I knew how big it was on paper, but being in the same room with it is another thing entirely.
@@Clough42 same thing here! I couldnt get to see it in the showroom so had no idea how big it was. I wanted a machine that I could grow into and not out of, I guess I got that bit right!
Nice job !!
Hi James, I was looking forward to this. I thought you might do it fairly soon! That bridge idea is really helpful and it may be a good way to go on my mill. I'm left wondering why there are not CNC systems that use the scales for closed loop control. Thanks, and I wish you a good New Year. BobUK.
👍👍😎👍👍. Happy New Year. 2021 is going to be awesome.
Nice mill, you look a little tall for it to crank it comfortably. You may consider blocking it up a couple of inches after using it for a while. See how your back holds up first! On your comment about getting your accuracy, you are completely correct. You need the set skills and experience to be able to hit the numbers when you NEED to, you can't do that if you go the " that'll do, it's good enough" route. When you strive to hit the numbers every time and eventually manage it, you WILL hit them when you need to. There is no substitute for experience, and experience on a particular machine that you own. That way you know what the machine and you are capable of.
Either I'm too tall, or the mill is too short. One is easier to fix. :)