Behringer Model D Demo/Comparison (by Synthpro)
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Hello Everyone,
This is a demo of the Behringer model D. I am a beta tester for this unit and I go over some of my first impressions as far as build quality, features, tone quality, and even a direct comparison to a real vintage minimoog model D from 1972, (The Real Test). Note: this vintage minimoog has the rev 2 oscillators, (not the oscillator using the thermally regulated voltage to exponential current converter UA726) and all other boards are original as well.
This Behringer Model D has left a great first impression with myself but I leave you guys to be the judge.
There will be another video covering the noise source as well as the EG controlling the pitch, forgot to cover that in this video.
Also, for the people that are annoyed by my talking and questioning the audio, here is a link to a edit of my video where the focus is on the sound. • Focused Comparison of ...
Special shout out to Ronnie for taking the time to edit this video!
I want to send a very special thank you to Uli Behringer for the opportunity to test and demo this unit.
P.S
For the Moog Fans:
I have to be completely honest, this was one of the toughest videos I have made because of the fact Im a huge moog enthusiast, (as you can see from so many of my other videos) but I also have say that the new moog music has made a critical mistake in business, they brought back something without owning all the rights. I hate it for moog but at the same time I wish all the best to them and hope this experience kick starts them back into engineering shape, ( I would love to see something new from moog). I have never heard of a company moving forward by going backwards and I leave it at that.
Thanks for watching!
Sincerely,
Jareth
Great useful video. I don't agree with peoples views about Behringer not respecting rights though - its 45 years old.
I appreciate the craftmanship in a hand built moog - but
Imagine if the guys who invented Transistors said "You can't use our transistors - they're just for space ships".
Bob Moog - a great man - but he passed away 12 years ago.
Because of Behringer - i can afford to buy and play with Bobs Design.
Plenty of people are still going to buy Moogs' more expensive, more modern better developed synths.
This Behringer Model D makes synths more accessible and drives competition - its no bad thing.
Yep. I have a reissue (it's terrific!) and owned a '74 original for many years. I think it's great that this one is right up there with the Moogs. Might just get three of 'em and put 'em together with my mini to create a 4 voice style poly.
Clearly you don't get the sound, build or quality.
The price you pay is having to bear the shame of the Behringer name.
They're a joke in pro audio circles. "A good one" is what the folks at Moog say. They could sue their pants off if they really wanted but prefer to take the high road. And truthfully ask yourself, if money were no object which one would you really prefer?
Yeah, clearly :massive rolleyes:
I own an original '76 and I think this sounds brilliant. Doubly so considering the price.
Still, haters gonna hate.
"They're a joke in pro audio circles" speak for yourself, what a dumb remark! Joke's on you, clown.
Hey, it's a free country. If you want to throw your money away on that crap go ahead. Everyone's got the right to disgrace themselves as you have disgraced yours.
Comparison starts around 14:00.
Simply one of the most professional and almost scientific comparison videos... I thought "OMG 50 minutes, it's going to be boring"... And here I am, watching it again! Thanks for this time of yours and congratulations for the great job!
Thank you very much Vince Wizz for your comment, greatly appreciate it!
All the best,
Jareth
Also watching again.
With all the comments about how the Behringer doesn't sound like the original, I'd *love* to hear a comparison between an original Model D and another original Model D and see which one sounds like a real Moog!
Absolutly.
Even if a Moog purist can hear the difference, the audience that listens to music made with it probably never will. This is the best comparison video I've seen. I wish I would have found this video years ago.
Also, how pronounced will the differences be if you're recording to tape?
no 2 minimoogs sound the same either so
Thank you for doing this synthpro! I'm very impressed not only by the sound of the D but your 1972 Mini Moog. The comparison is outstanding coming from your experience with vintage Moogs. Extremely knowledgeable and perfect way to compare the D.
Joseph Lepkowski Your welcome!
What an extraordinary achievement by Behringer. This is a great demo, and the minor differences pressented are so insignificant that, like you said, could be equally applied to an a/b comparison of two actual Minimoogs. And the high-pass filter at 36:50 is pretty stunning.
Very good video, that shows that the old analogue tech is back in our days. Unimaginable in the 90ies and early 2000s where they claimed they could imitate everything with VA synths. Which as we all know didn't happen. It was an eternal promise that was never fulfilled - neither by Access Virus (had 2 of them) nor Clavia not the countless VSTs...
So happy to see great analogue and polyphonic synths come back from Korg, Behringer and others.
Crazy close in all aspects as best I can tell here. I bought a new Model D in 1978 for a little less than $2K. Loved it and have been trying to duplicate it (not just the sound but the way the components functioned as well) since I sold it in 1983-'84. It was worn out and no one that I could find could properly repair it at the time. I had problems with oscillator stability early on and used a heating pad to keep the temp constant. That worked well for several years, just had to get to the gig a bit early to turn it and the Mini on.
The mod wheel pot went out after a year or so and and replacing it with one of the same value didn't work out at all for some reason and no one could figure that out. It went from no modulation (vibrato is what I used the 3rd osc primarily for) to too much at the slightest touch. This was a pain but still usable. Then the keybed started having issues. Dirty contacts I suspect. If I'd have known then that I'd NEVER be able to replace it and could have it properly repaired sometime in the future I'd have never sold it.
I've had a number of Moogs since including a Memory Moog and a Voyager. None of which I've been overjoyed with, just didn't sound like my Model D. I'm currently on my third (yup, number 3) Sub 37 Tribute as the first two were problematic and were replaced. I know someone else on their #3 (we can be found at the S37TE forum on Facebook) and many with problematic S37TE's including MANY that's keys are turning yellow. I'm thinkin' that Moog needs new management at the very least.
My #3 isn't quite right (needs calibration I'm sure and I'll get around to it perhaps when my health issues ease up a bit) but I DO love the sound and operation for the most part. It's still not my old Model D though....
My experience with Behringer hasn't been good in the past save their compressors. MANY of the rooms I worked in Vegas had Behringer comps. This was over 15 years ago so, since they're still around, I presume they've improved and I'll certainly, and very happily, shell out 300 bucks for one of these Model D clones.
Moog is a legendary brand on the electronic music community which took a great part in the electronic music history and gave a lot of pleasure and creativity possibilities to plenty of musicians all around the word for a years. They make fantastic synthesisers with great sounds and incredible quality. It is more than just a label. By other hand, Behringer give the opportunity to many people who can’t buy a 3000$ synthesiser access to electronics instruments, to develop their creativity and produce music too. This build the history of electronic music too, but with instruments more accessible. In my opinion this last 5 years Behringer get a new strategy, proposing every time better products, every time more elaborated and nevertheless always accessible for straight budgets. It is very respectable too and if they produce a synthesiser like the model D which reproduce so well the sound of a legendary one for ten times cheaper it is fantastic for the community of producers. I think we should be grateful more than critical for this wonderful opportunity they offer to everybody. Almost, they are not the first, and neither the last one, copying other product. Every brand use technology or ideas of other to create a new offer on the market. I think the love of the music of both synthesiser brand buyers is the same at the end, only differ their financial resources. This point shouldn’t limit the access to the creativity and thanks to Behringer it doesn’t.
As an owner of the vintage Mini i have to say with some sadness this is actually rather impressive! ;)
Don't be sad. Sell your Minimoog for 5.000 €, and get a Boog für 260 € instead. 😜
I kind of regret not grabbing a Moog Mini reissue a little over a year ago when you get them for close to 3k. I have the Behringer Model D, but would still consider getting a Minimoog at 3k for nostalgia. I can’t ever see paying the current prices of 6 to 8k though.
@@Music73777 I bought one at 5k, immaculate. Already in profit. I'd buy another, they're only going up in value.
@@juniorvicepresidentofzimba4946 The market is built on woo, speculation and scarcity. The scarcity, woo and speculation is decimated now there are accurate and cheap clones.
The only people who want them now are people that care about securing their investments or care more about the brand than the sound.
As most musicians just want to use them in the studio I wouldnt be surprised if the bottom drops out of the used vintage synth market pretty quickly.
I certainly would never consider buying any of those vintage synths with these clones around and I have the money to buy either.
@@sacredgeometry I agree with you completely. It’s just scarcity is absolute and it creates woo and speculation. New Aston Martins outperform the DB5, but the DB5 is never going to be made again. My CZcams name is literally an inflation joke, I understand scarcity pretty well. Enough musicians with enough money want that Model D and the reissue was the finest iteration. There are better sounding violins than a Stradivarius, worth much less. Is it fair? No. Am I buying a Stradivarius? No. Same principle though.
So, essentially what you're saying is that I'm buying the Behringer Model D for myself as a birthday present this year??? Gotcha.
I'm blown away with this comparison! If Behringer is this good with the Model d..I can't wait to hear their take on the Oberheim OBX!!
Behringer has totally reinvented themselves with their synths, after I bought the Pro 1 I was a believer and went crazy lol now I have the Model D, TD3, Crave, RD8, Deepmind 12 and I just bought the Neutron (can't wait to get it).
The Hank Hill of synthesizers!
Sold, by the way. This is by far the best side by side synthesizer comparison on youtube.
Unbelievable.
I dont think anybody could have captured that character any better.
this truly is the GOLDEN AGE. About time somebody called the elephant in the room and made a respectable version of this classic that is affordable. Finally some extreme value for our money, not a bend over and get an extra mortgage for a collection of parts that are cheaper than ever to buy and can be put together by machines via surface mount.
I can not imagine a synth head on the planet not buying one. Behringer you rock man ........ and Synth Pro ....
How refreshing it is to have an audio electronics guy do an awesome demo who makes things musical. Cheers dude this demo is the dogs bollocks
Thanks for taking the time. This should have been the FIRST video Behringer released...finally someone just doing an A/ B
Trig242 your welcome and thank you for your comment.
All the best,
Jareth
Finally one the better "reviews" out there.
Also - Screw what others say, it's better to take out this decent clone to shows and leave the vintage in the studio. Nice work Behringer, I have to admit. The differences are slight anyway.
That minimoog sounds flipping absolutely gorgeous. I mean really amazing...
This is a truly brilliant and well prepared demo, Jareth. I thank you! The Berhinger Model D surely gives our family owned Minimoog a run for a tenth of its money. And good work from Uli and his colleagues!!
I just bought a Moog Sub 37. It costs five times as much as the Model D, but it's also a quite different instrument. Memories, sequencer, arpeggiator, tons of routing and a lot of forward thinking. So it still feels very good to own that one!
But I'll probably buy the Behringer Model D when it hits the shops. :-)
Again Jareth, THANKS!!!
I'm playing with synthesizers since about 40 years and we had MiniMoog, fat oberheim 4voice, Elka Synthex, PPG Modular and much others.... I dont need a Minimoog when I can use that Behringer..... I want the sound and the haptic, not a label
Well said, Sir! Well said.
Why do people get so angry about behringer D hardware copy when you can get software copies of the moog. nobody complained about that
Because they own an original and hate to see faithful and solid sounding clones. It was always the case with vintage stuff.
Because now they can't brag about it, it's all about elitism. Funny as if people on the dancefloor will even notice it "Hey thats not a real Moog sound, lets leave the club!"
@@padmad3k63 I laughed hard at this comment, well put!
@@658magnus LOL. I've just spent nearly 4k on gear and the next month I'll be getting more gear worth nearly 2k. So you're wrong I can afford a "real" moog. Take your bullshit elitism somewhere else.
@@658magnus you dont have one either lol. elitest bastard!
Is anyone hearing a $2900 difference in sound? Because I'm not.
Nope. I absolutely love the Model D's looks but in sound the difference isn't there indeed.
Actually, the original Model D's go for much more than that, so...
And $2900 less risk on stage.
anyone in 2030 still here ? Now it's $10.000
@@danwentz Why wouldn't it? I don't think any gear of theirs I've bought has ever gone bad, and I've still got a headphone amp of theirs that's now half that age, it still works just fine.
I'm sure because it is also so simple it will still work just the same in 40 years. It doesn't feel flimsy at all in my hands, and does not feel like a toy. It is smaller. That's all. The connectors, the knobs and switches, and the performance of the unit are actually really solid in every way that is important.
I noticed that the Moog has a smooth attack, and the Behringer attack offers a glassy spike or even a squeak up to pitch. This was audible throughout the video. At 27:00 you lengthen the attack on the Moog from a click. It sounds lovely throughout its range. In the same exercise, the Behringer seems starts with a sharp spike and skips to longer attack, missing some steps in between. The Behringer seems like a wonderful teaching tool at this price and with some super useful sounds. I'll have to check one out in person somewhere.
Come on! It sounds HUGE! I'm glad Behringer decided to do such thing, even if it isn't sound 100% like Moog, it's still close enough, especially for that price. In my opinion this is must have for everyone, who wants Minimoog, but knows that will never be able to afford one.
Bro the Model D is nearly "identical" to a Moog and no 2 Moogs sound the same anyway, so yea Behringer F***** did it, they cracked the code and remade the Moog at a far lower price at that
This is so cool! Really good to hear your opinion. Loads of respect for your knowledge of the build quality and materials in the original. Looking forward to the release.
Thank you very much George!
Quick question that I haven't seen covered- can you get to the CV tune and tracking adjustment pots? This would be useful for using with modular and older CV synths.
You can't access the Scale and Range pots but there is a trick that you do to scale the vintage moogs together, it may work in this case as well....connect a 10k pot between the CV line, this works as your range control while the master volume works as the scale. Sometimes a buffer circuit has to be added but other than that, it should work.
Daniel Fisher at Sweetwater found the scale and range adjustments. They are only accessible from the rear- his example was if using in Eurorack. It doesn't look easy to access from the table top case due to the angle the face is at. And they did screen the labels on the board- so re-tuning won't be needlessly difficult.
Man that's a lot of views! This is amazing. Can definitely hear subtle differences in the waveforms, but for my needs and budget it'd be a no-brainer.
Thank you so much for the informative comparison. I do hear a slight "glide" effect on the Behringer when you first play the higher notes, you might have had a pitch modulation going on - be that as it may, the Behringer unit is amazing for anyone who wants to have the functionality and sound of a MiniMoog without the bulk and expense of carrying the real thing to gigs! I am impressed.
Thanks for the great demo. This is the first 'real' demo Ive heard and I'm impressed.
ifly65 Your welcome, happy you enjoyed it.
All the best,
Jareth
Listening over a good quality sound system, I can hear that the original sounds slightly richer and more complex - but it really is quite close, and for the money, I am definitely going to get one!
Such a great comparison. Great work. A 5 year old video that holds up because it was done right. Thank you so much.
Very good and pro comparison , danke dafür ! :)
MONO Thank you very much!
Thanks very much for a very informative demo and comparison. For the price I just cannot see how you can overlook this clone, the sound differences are pretty miniscule and for what I want (sound textures, hands-on control, modern features) it’s just what I need.
Now if someone can clone me set of Rick Wakeman and Keith Emersons hands I’ll be ready for my next global tour!
Excellent comparison! I've been dying to hear the model d and I'm happy to see such a comprehensive comparison. I find it interesting when people complain about the behringer vs the moog reissue, as they seem to be directed at completely different market segments . Of course I'd rather buy the made in the USA deluxe Moog version, but most casual users just don't have that kind of cash. I see these reissue synths as similar to how almost all electric guitars were based off either the Les Paul or Strat.
Your very much welcome Ross Kelly, happy you enjoyed the video.
I completely agree with your comment, well said.
All the best,
Jareth
synthpro thanks again and keep up the great work!!!
Brutal test, pitting it against a vintage model - have to say, it sounds very impressive. Great video, great test.
You've helped me make a decision! Thanks for a great detailed review!
This is great! Fingers crossed for the OBX clone being this good!
Thanks for the comparison video, J.F. Sebastian from Blade Runner!
Marc-Julien Objois I get that a lot, I do live fairly close to Memphis TN which is where J.F is from. So, with your comment said, I will say, "these are my friends, I restored them".
All the best,
Jareth
It really is him!! Who knew...
Marc-Julien Objois omg yeas!
Fantastic review! I e gone through it like yourself with my ‘72 mini, and it’s so incredibly close. I like to mix the lfo and Osc 3 in lfo rate to get some cool rhythms that the original can’t do. Also don’t even get me started about doing patching with CV into itself and to control my Minilogue XD. Unbelievable possibilities using the filter and loudness gates for even more rhythms. It’s an incredible box with better tuning than my vintage MiniMoog! Anyway, great review, subscribed! I got it for a little over $200! 👍😀
This is actually so impressive. Thanks for the video.
I think Behringer make good quality equipment at a good price and I have many Behringer devices both for live and studio work. I will buy one of these synth when the time comes. I've wanted a real Moog since they first appeared but they have always been priced way out of my reach - I've used software substitutions , but a working model to play live ?? yes please!
+1
Can't wait to drive it through some effect pedals.
You can buy a VINTAGE MOOG Micromoog for $700-800 Probably will need a little work...I had to put about $170 into the 2 I own..YES You CAN afford a REAL "MOOG".
Micromoog, seriously? It's limited, it's twice the price and it's probably almost dead and requires servicing. No one needs a "real" Moog if their intent is to make and play music, not wank off to labels.
Antigamente falavam mal da CASIO, hoje falam mal da Behringer.
Eu prefiro ter esse módulo Físico da Behringer do que o VST: "MINI V3" da Arturia.
Wow... It is close. Very close. Not *quite* exactly the same sound, but wow is it close. I wonder how the difference in sound could be chalked up to vintage vs modern components and how well a comparison between the Behringer D and the Moog reissue would stack up.
Behringer's DeepMind didn't blow me away in the slightest, but this one... I spent much of the side by side sound comparison not looking at which one he was playing, just listening. I'm impressed. It also looks like it could sit and connect nicely with a Eurorack rig.
I'm curious how close the Minimoog D might sound to *another* Minimoog D. Different VCOs, etc. in the original have slight differences in timbre, rate, etc. too. And these 'features' change over the life of the synth. Also, Moog had to deal with different part vendors over the life of production, which could account for minor differences. So Behringer might have used a particular 'D as a reference -- which might perform a little different from this one. (I've seen similar observations/discussions about two different Hammond B-3s or Vox AC30s.) All in all, a *very* impressive copy!
No 2 Moogs sound alike so I think Behringer nailed this!
In the 40 something years I've been involved with synths I've personally owned three MiniMoog Model Ds, and probably played over 30. When I heard the Sweetwater demo of this thing, I was amazed at how true the unprocessed oscillators sounded, but I wasn't too sure how accurately Behringer modeled the ladder filter. After hearing this video, I am totally blown away. I sold my last Mini on CZcams in 2003 for $3100 (I paid about $1200 in 1978). This little synth changes it all in respect to bang for the buck in analog synthesizers. I've per-ordered mine, and once I find out how expandable they are, I will probably order a few more (Think Oberheim x-voice, except with real Moogs). Yes the audio here may be a bit compromised by CZcams compression, but the real Mini was compromised as much as the Behringer. Anybody who really knows what a reql Mini sounds like will be definitely impressed by this comparison video. Thanks to the OP for doing this!
Thanks for sharing mosspa1!!
All the best,
Jareth
nice clear video with wonderful technical info build and use .well done Jareth.sounds so close to the original and demonstrated with genius understanding of the original and the Behringer .you are a top synth player and repair engineer god in my eyes .PS the high pass is a great extra touch
Minis and Radias. Pretty interesting combination I must say! :)
Thanks for the comparison. It's ridiculous how Behr close is! I also like the SE-02, but not to get the vintage Moog tone, rather its flexibility, additional features, and patch memory. Hard choices these days :)
Not if you have Sausage Fingers ^^
Mario Krušelj The Radias compliments the moog very well. I use some of the Wurlitzer preset and custom programs a lot out of the Radias.
Your welcome, happy to share this video with you.
@atommachine Thankfully I don't. :P
What's wrong with Radias? I've owned mine since 2007 and it's still a keeper. Lovely synth.
Sounds great, and I don't have to sell my liver to afford it!
Expecting this baby in a couple days. Can hardly wait. My old Moog Prodigy has seen better days so I'm looking forward to getting that filter sound back in my stable. Excellent and thorough review man!
Dennis Ristow Awesome! If you would ever like to get your prodigy serviced, I can do that.
I will certainly keep that in mind. The Prodigy did have a SYNC function that was so wonderfully aggressive sounding.
Thank you, a clear and honest side by side. To my ears the Moog has it, although the Behringer certainly comes close. Both of them are great synths.
Oh, if only I was in my 15, with only a bunch of money and dreaming to produce electronic music.... with this kind of instrument. Thanks to Uli, I bet a lot of teenagers are now happier.
My understanding is that the Behringer D is the same circuit as the Moog D. Then the only difference would be small variances in the values of resistors, capacitors ect. There are different levels of quality when it comes to discrete components, where you pay a higher price for tighter specs. Since Moog no longer owns the patent for the D model circuit, this is a real win for the consumer. And with modern production techniques, I wouldn't be worried about the electronics. I would worry more about an old Moog actually! I've learned from my experience repairing old electronics that values of discrete parts can change drastically with age.
Very impressive! So glad you made this video!
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Super helpful.
Your very much welcome!
Wow !
This is identical.
Well done !
actually it's not, vintage is more precise and smoother where ulimoog is little bit harsher and generally sounds less classy. difference is not huge but it is there.
I wouldn't call the vintage "more precise" what with its tuning going all over the place, haha.
ha, true, true!
no it's not emulating, technically replicas are not emulations unlike ACB or VST
original is more precise compared to behringer version which pitch tracking goes slightly off in this comparison, listen carefully you can hear it
When using behringer d in song it will be hard to hear that it is a minimoog clone.
Detecting a slight portamento from the Korg-Behringer Duo. "As You Can Hear." Excellent Video!
I just noticed too, at 14:22. I'd hope it's only because he doesn't have the knob turned all the way down.
Thanks for the demo, would have been happy if it was 90% close for the money asked but it's left me speechless for what I ever expected for my eurorack.
"For the Moog Fans:
I have to be completely honest, this was one of
the toughest videos I have made because of the fact Im a huge moog
enthusiast, (as you can see from so many of my other videos) but I also
have say that the new moog music has made a critical mistake in
business, they brought back something without owning all the rights. I
hate it for moog but at the same time I wish all the best to them and
hope this experience kick starts them back into engineering shape, ( I
would love to see something new from moog). I have never heard of a
company moving forward by going backwards and I leave it at that." Thanks for the kind words!
Isidoro Zettici Your welcome, I didn't quite know how to word this or how it would come across to others but certainly have respect for moog music, I don't want to see them fail but the only way to overcome failure is to move forward in innovations.
• synthpro What's the amount of innovation on The Behringer Model D? The patch points? I think Moog could have easily made a Behringer kind of model D. It probably would cost more while they want tot give their employees a decent wage. Something which isn't a big issue in Behringer's business model.
I think the innovation is likely in the DFM (Design for manufacture) - there's a ton of skill and expertise required to take something on the level of complexity of the minimoog and apply a modern BOM and manufacturing techniques to get the price down.
Moog is too busy running stupid music festivals and being social justice warriors too actually produce innovative music instruments these days. CXO level needs to be cleaned out big time...
gishengarms made in China helps alot.
All trolls should post their music for open critique!
love it! great review!
"as you can hear"
This is (for me, can't speak for other people) the best-ever comparing video, (shoot-out) period, well done. By the way, I agree with almost all of your opinions. The Behringer Model D seems to be a great value, which can obviously substitute the MiniMoog Model D. substantially.
One thing I'm really interested to see is how the Behringer (and other recent analog synths) sound 40 years from now. I have a feeling that a lot of the magic in vintage synths is simply the age of the components... the subtle imperfections that develop in old components adds character to the sound I think. I'd guess if you time traveled back to the 70's and brought back a brand new Minimoog, it would sound closer to the Behringer D.
Moogs especially with time fall out of tune, copper contacts get dirty and keys stop responding as they should, so Moogs definitely need maintenance
I swear I'm hearing a tiny amount of slew in the pitch of the Behringer when you do octave+ intervals. Not sure if there's a tiny glide amount left, or if it's an artifact of the filter envelopes controlling pitch and having a tiny lag.
It's not a lot, but I'm curious if anyone else hears it. Otherwise...damn, a little more precise (as you'd expect from something months as opposed to decades old), but so close.
You are hearing right. There is a tiny amount of glide many times.
I sometimes have that issue when I haven't fully shut off glide on my Dominion 1, so hopefully it's just an untwisted knob and not a build issue.
Sandy Smith Thanks for pointing that out, I will verify this.
A bunch of synths do this. My Neptune 2 and ATC-X both do it.
I heard it also, it's of course specially apparent when large intervals are played.
Love the video, such a good replica for the price! Gotta say, the Minimoog just has that real clean Moog sub that you can't get anywhere else. Are you using the same pre-amps for both?
Keep making great videos!
My live setup is this this Behringer model D, some modular on top of Arturia Minibrute 2 - using the 3 space Brute Rack . And a Matriarch, I got a week ago for para-phonic playing. Played it last night live and the comment of the musicians and audience was that the Model-D really cuts through and it does based on what my wife recorded on her phone. To be fair, I am still learning the Matriarch. I have a Sub phatty and the mother 32 Moog as well but hardly use them. I prefer the behringer model D sound for many things. or maybe if I had a real Minimmog, I would play that instead of the Subphatty. I am selling the Mother 32.. The Mini-moog design, one of those things done right. I returned the Crave , K-2 and Wasp clones and only keeping the Modlel-D and the Neutron.
Starsky Carr also made a comparison and the Model-D is really close. I would say to the Minimoog owners to buy a couple of this and use that for playing out. Of course if given an opportunity, I would rather have the real thing. The new synths like the sub phatty and Mother 32 just have something in them that other analog synths do not have. Moog is building newer synths and this clone does not eat into their earning at all. In fact it may make people buy more Moogs even though they may have to sell an organ to get one.
Mr. Behringer in one of the interviews said he has a personal mission of providing affordable equipment to musicians. globally where people cannot afford stuff. He has paid his dues as a session player a repairman etc. The headquarters are in the Philippines and the manufacturing in China hence they lower costs. IF you are xenophobic bear in mind that the design team for many of their clones and original synths is based in the UK and Europe.
In pro audio, the X32 mixer is now a standard. Many venues will ask you if your band has a X32 mix setup file.
Moog's design is definitely magic but not reachable by many people. Having this affordable but faithful clone will enable us to hear more music created by other people around the world - Africa for example.
I can't lie, it's a damn good likeness. But, seeing as I was just able to buy a Moog Reissue on 0%interest over three years, well I wasn't going to pass up the opportunity to buy a genuine article of a synth I've wanted for years!
If anything, the emergence of the Behringer D drove me to buy one even more.
BTW, isn't there a sort of emulation by Studio Electronics, not the SE-02 but one of the Boomstar range? That's pretty cheap considering, so the Behringer isn't the only option, I dare say there's a few reasonably priced synths that come close to the sound of the Model D. Or maybe not, I'm just assuming something that's been around as long as the model D must have had plenty of imitation attempts over the years.
There won't be another model D, but Behringer have done a stellar job here. Your made a safe investment I think
to be honest, ulimoog lacks some silky smooth 'magic' of vintage.. but it's 95% there price of 1/10, so it's absolutely no brainer
Superb demo, Jareth. A very detailed and informative look at the synth. You have convinced me to buy one of these :)
Great comparison. Well done and congratulations to Behringer.
Honestly I liked the Beringer sound a little better. Seemed slightly brighter all around.
bs
And to think the actual released product is almost IDENTICAL.
Excellent review! Folks should still keep in mind youtube is 128 kbps, not best place to conclude things. Even my digital synth demos get degraded heavily on YT.
Don Solaris its actually 192kbps AAC at 720p, still not too much of a difference i guess.
Thank you very much Don.
All the best,
Jareth
Remember that up until recently alot of MP3s sold were only 192, so a lot of consumers were buying music at 192 and I'd disagree with Don Solaris that AAC 192 is 'heavily degraded' especially on synths, I doubt a lot of people would hear the difference, which is much more obvious on complex sounds in the high end. Not saying there isnt a difference but CZcams has better sound quality then Netflix and Stranger Things sounded fine to most people.
Wouldn't that affect both synths the same, or does youtube have a bias? Has youtube just bought a re-issue? :D
Your digital synth demos are trash anyways
Moog patent rights expired on the minimoog D. Millions of musicians want one but can’t afford a Minimoog D. Software moog d doesn’t fit the void. Other than the behringer d oscillators needing to be tuned out of the box, ive not heard of any issues. I own a moog grandmother, wich i love, and plan on getting the behringer d. Look forward to comparing those two. Great video and explanation and your devotion to restoration of great analog synths, may they live forever. God bless
You have a wealth of knowledge and a great presentation style. I have subscribed ... keep them coming.- Scotty
Thank you very much Scott, happy you enjoy my videos!
All the best,
Jareth
Moog bottom end is better. And I notice behringers highs are much more poppier. There is a difference but I don't care I cant afford a moog right now so behringer should move there buts and get this developed
I agree. The moog has a deeper bottom end for sure. To me it kind of glows. The boog has the same mids and highs though. Maybe a 2% difference at most. Not noticeable to most ears. I may hold off on buying it till Behringer gets it right. But at the price point everyone can afford to buy one while we wait on that. In a mix this difference probably won’t matter.
Due, no doubt, to the genuine tone wood body.
It starts at 13:36
LPelvisPL o
LMFAO!! 13 mins in? Well shit!
Good lord this guy can't stop talking..... He says the same thing like 3 to 5 times over and over.
Thank you for this video. Very well done, clean and you give a very good idea of that the Behringer can do. Impressive all the way.
Your welcome Jeffrey and thank you!
All the best,
Jareth
Great video! Bravo! Thanks to Synthpro, thanks to Uli Behringer!
There's an annoying, very slight "glide" or portamento on the Behringer when playing wide apart notes. Is it because there's no glide on/off switch on it and the minimum pot level isn't completely off ?
Aside from that, it is really impressive. Although the maximum envelopes times are shorter on it.
Hi AlainHubert your right, I brought this up to Uli and they are working this issue out, this is a prototype which is the great thing, it gives time to get feedback like yours.
Thanks,
Jareth
I also own a 1975 Minimoog D. But who knows, I might get eight Behringer Ds and try to design some sort of polyphonic Minimoog 8 Voice synth, à la Oberheim 8 Voice with them ?
What about the low end? Will it be fixed or will we have to just EQ it on the go?
I'm guessing there is no way this has any programability at this price. (no sysex either for real time controller changes too).
if you look at the beginning of the video his glide is on 10 at least what i see
Im gonna get one... Only thing I don't like is the midi io, I'd much prefer it on the back.
Designed for eurorack.
Those who want the Behringer D NOT to sound like a minimoog must hate this video:- )
Seems like a very good job by their clone.
Moog sounds slightly fuller but Behringer wins! A true revolution! Thank you for this awesome video!
Feels like Behringer lacks a bit in the low bass / sub response, Minimoog sounds a little bit fatter in that aspect, but other than that wow, very similar...
Doesn't feel like it, was listening with studio headphones the levels are quite precisely matched, but the Minimoog at moments had a little bit stronger sub response when he played lower notes with the LP filter more closed. (for example around 23:35) It's not a huge difference, nothing a tiny bit of EQ can't fix :)
But nevertheless, what Behringer did here is crazy good, you get a f*kn 99% Moog sound for 300$ !?!?!? If they continue doing this, big portion of the industry will be forced to lower the prices on, a lot of times, overpriced analog gear, which means, us, end-consumers will profit from it greatly...
Also, the Deepmind is quite cool as well, it was a great thing for them to move from shitty, hissy and faulty rackmount gear, pedal and mixer copies to synths... Well done Behringer!
Agreed. You can hear it in the sweeps at 16:55 and again at 17:28. The deep bass just isn't there on the Behringer. Still pretty good overall, especially at the price.
@Egoless Music, you are fully right. Everybody could see that with a spectrum meter. I don't know why and i don't like to say "moog sounds better, blabla, because blabla". But in this case.. I am so sorry, but the Behringer thing is missing the bass base. It is around 30-60Hz ca. 10dB missing. That is fucking a lot!!! You can hear/see that on min. 22:03 MiniMoog and min. 22:27 Behringer.
Yeah, i agree, the Model D seems a bit more beefy in the lower registers. The character is quite there though. Model D also seems a bit more unstable, like synthpro also mentioned.
Egoless Music Was thinking the same thing. Listening on my Beyerdynamic studio headphones, that low end definition makes a difference to fatness. The minimoog presents that range better than the Behringer. But they've done a very good job on this though in fairness. It's really really close!
Moog is much more full. Filter sounds better too.
@Murada LOL. I'm sure you have some superior hearing the rest of us don't.
@Murada and FYI, the reason I'm laughing openly at y'all, I saw a different video where the guy did a comparison with a visible oscillosope trace so we could see the waveforms being absolutely identical.
But, hey. The same snobbery has folks thinking they can tell a Stradivarius from a brand new $100 violin and the truth is without the irrelevant visual cues, they usually do no better than chance. Same with 'fine' wines vs. $5 box wine. Take away the crucial context and there is no difference a mere mortal can discern.
great video... but yet more teasing...... MISTER BEHRINGER WHEN WILL WE BE ABLE TO BUY ONE IN THE SHOPS!!??!!
Still this explains how Mr Firechild also has one beta testers..............I am green with envy
While listening carefully, I feel the Moog's filter brings more depth and roundness to the sound ( 22:00 ). I'm pretty sure a spectral analysis would show this. And maybe shifts like these start to make a big difference when putting a track together.
Cool. Behringer king of clones it seems. Behringer has a very slight shine on the sound. But come on. Every model d slightly sounds different. Behringer sounds good. I have a re issue of moogs model d and not regrets. I think its cool that they have a cheaper different form factor on the market
For 299 I am sold
For real, why are people complaining at $299? it could sound half as good as a real Moog and it would still probably be a good buy.
I thought it was 400+, shit at 299 I'm definitely in.
it will change the world! (yes, i am joking...a bit)
Thank you for the very great review. I'm absolutely impressed too 😊👍
Thank you Bego and your very much welcome!
definitely interested after watching your review. thanks for the upload mate
I tested once an original model D. I made measurements and was listening to the machine. I've to say that it was something hard to think what define the specific sound of the machine by playing on the keyboard. It's no saturation or overdrive at the filter inputs and not so much after so the saga about the thick sound and saturation is just a saga but it was something in some settings I cannot explain the technical reason for the sound. It's like a singing and lovely tone. I'm not a musician as some know and I don't believe in the magic of vintage components and stuff like that. Nothing can replicate the original model D (with build in misstakes made by the good man Robert Moog).
the distortion happens in the filter itself, there are some resistors that set the gain stage between the transistor ladder and this was changed early on ( mid1974 roughly). Depending on what year the minimoog was you were measuring, you may have not seen all of this this. Also at one point moog changed the VCA design and that was another effect in the sound. compoents do have a MAJOR play in the sound, the manufactring process of transistors have changed greatly since the 70s and things have became more precise so you do get a more effecient current drop across transistors these days. in the early minimoogs, there were even transistor changes between years and in some, its noticable, around serial # 5000 roughly moog used motorola transistors which had too much current drop between the collector and Emitter which effected tuning, this is just one example.
I will not lie though, the vintage minimoogs are classics and will always be classics, I put them in that category of the original les paul guitar......there still being made but the originals hold their own place.
The problem is that the only "original" Model D's are the ones Bob Moog made himself and even those have different components. The board also had many revisions over the years. So you can't even compare Model D against Model D, because their circuitry might be completely different.
wowa cwejman Nothing?
AJH's Minimod series. They paid very close attention to detail, and based the modules on the older units, while adding improvements. They even replicated the unusual retriggering behavior of the envelopes, for example, and also added a switch so you can choose whether you want it. And of course, the sharktooth wave is present on the VCOs.
Behringer may have done some of this, too, but I don't know. And Crimsun brought up a very good point, as there were many different iterations of the original Mini.
No hate, I can understand the sentiment, just wanted to put that out there.
Also, I think Behringer's clone looks fantastic for the price! The most I've spent on a synth was $500 (Bass Station II), and don't own any VCO synths besides my Monotribe atm (I have a couple analog synths, but they use DCOs), so this may be right up my alley.
I didn't make any comparison with other instruments. you're right about the AJH modules and I didn't test any of the AJH modules. I shared my impressions from an early test from 2002 when I started my business. I know the AJH made some very good modules and Behringer is probably 99 per cent close to the original sound and for this price...OMG. I think i'll just order one for test. Thank you for your comments anyways. :)
close enough
Seriously I think I want one of these to keep my other synths comany. I think if the price point stays around $300-400, this is going to be a very popular little machine with 'That sound'. Bang for buck chapeen!
Excellent work. Thank you for the time you took to deliver this video.
Thank you very much, happy this video was helpful!
Jareth
Drinking game - take a shot every time he says "guys".
I tried but I ended up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning before the second half of the video.
2 shots for "as you can hear". Great video though. It's a pain in the ass too hang yourself out there for random heckling from internet doofuses. Well done and thank you.
The Drümünkey No worries, it gives me a laugh when people pick up on certain words I use a little over the top, I sometimes set back after making some of my videos and laugh myself at that because usually when I recording, I don't notice that I do that. I make videos but I am camera shy and do get a bit nervous especially when I was working on a video like this that I knew was going to be a hot topic. Its all fun GUYS, gives me a laugh to read comment chains like this.
All the best and thanks for watching,
Jareth
It's "gahs".
...and "con-TOUR".
Oh dear, just bought a reissue. Big mistake on my part.
Put it up for sale. There's a sucker born every minute (and they're all on Ebay).
deroden yeah, I was one of them.
auldg not a mistake. The minimoog will skyrocket in value. The behringer will not. Probably will not work in 7 years.
deroden minimoog will last a lifetime.
Agreed. Moogs do not devalue. I'm willing to bet those who feel the Behringer D is the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread have never actually owned a Moog.
Watching this while listening to your drawl makes me think of the old-time South... old men sitting on their porch steps, singing their hearts out while playing away at their Minimoogs...
Great video. One thing that I heard in places here (though it isn't really an issue with the Behringer itself ... ) is something I've noticed in other similar cases: The old Pratt-Read keyboards interact with the analog circuitry and contribute to the character of old analogs in a way that MIDI keyboards/controllers don't. If you MIDI control a Mini it will sound a bit different than one played directly on the keyboard. I'm not saying this was better or worse but it did lend them a uniquely characteristic sound depending on how they're played. And the action on the Pratt-Reads--how they feel to the player--I think, is superior to any MIDI keyboard I've ever played.
Thank you very much!
I know exactly what your talking about, its a natural variance in the keyboard voltage which creates this character, its great when contacts are clean but when they are dirty, all its overkill in that action.
I agree, pratt read keyboards are no comparison for key beds of today but I will say model keyboards are more reliable, I have had to do some major cutting, drilling, and riveting on some of these old pratt read keyboards. Polymoog still has probably one of the best feels yet. Pratt Read with weighted action, it just feels solid, (well it is solid, haha).
All the best,
Jareth
Yeah when the contacts get dirty Pratt-Reads get ... let's call it "problematic"! Squealing and screaming and warbling all over the place. I've spent my time cleaning and re-bending bent j-wires and replacing bushings on them (two Arp Axxes and an old Mini). But I do love 'em ... really need to get all of them refurbished again, though, recapped and sliders opened up and serviced properly ... poor babies!
Bahahahaahahaha, finally the model d costs what it should cost in 2017.
yes!!! overpriced piece of crap hahahaha it can be a cool piece of crap, but still a piece of crap nonetheless
Im amazed to be honest , better than Korgs version of Odyssey
Chris-Cook no
Sorry, but yes... Korg's Oddy has a serious problem with LFO re-trigger of the envelopes, which they just won't acknowledge.
Synth Builder exactly , so is the problem on the full size version they did too ?
I think it's been fixed for the FS, but not too sure about the desktop module :(
Synth Builder I personally wouldnt buy a copy ,, I own the real deals , as much as they are heavy maintainence , its more owning something with mysterious history ,, whos owned it ? , what famous fingers played it , etc etc because these machines couldnt usually be owned by mr average for bedroom tinkering , either recording studios , producers and Artists could afford these machines , alot of my Arps over the years have been owned or used by famous people , especially being in England , theres not alot of Arps left , ive bought Arps personally off , Guy Berryman , old member of Tubeway Army , had a Quadra that belonged to Pete Townsend , another by New Order
Very cool comparison video! I will be picking up one of these for sure! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't convinced when I first heard one, now I'm pretty blown away. It sounds amazing! I could never afford 3.5k for a minimoog. Behringer will get my money. I just wish it wasn't so small. I hate these little boutique synths, but that sound!!! Wow!