The Problem With DC Action Scenes
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2018
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The Nerdwriter is a series of video essays about art, culture, politics, philosophy and more. - Zábava
Marvel's top villain = Thanos
DC's top villain = Rotten tomatoes.
Raj actually it's Snyder,joss Whedon and WB
I mean TLJ got a 90-something so I'm inclined to agree lmao
Rob Bacon hahaha what? the DCEU is nothing but skin deep right now. They’re not giving the critics much to work with.
Thanos was shit.
NostalgiNorden
No way! I hate everything that's popular too! Go us!
Aquaman: "yeah"
"O Right"
It's not "O right" anyway, it's "Alright!". Weird subtitling...
Forget all that.
“My man!”
@@woodside4life LoL. Weirdly I don't mind that they made Aquaman some weird sort of surfer dude. (I also really like that they cast him as an islander - I can totally see the original creators of the character doing that if they had it all to do over).
I'm not hating their version of The Flash either.
You pretty much just have to assume this is set on some alternate Earth and roll with it. xD
@@irrevenant3 Yeah, that's what I do with the MCU.
Havent seen the aquaman movie yet but in JL he is the most paper thin basic character ive ever seen
4:32 editing to the next scene is great. Awesome action cut
Yeah
Yeah
V BA do you happen to know what movie is shown at 0:24?
I was just about to leave this comment.. that cut was money..
NS R mad max fury road
I was waiting when that punching would end at the end 😂
that's actually a good moment in BvS
@@EvilDogFilmsOfficial Agree. It's pretty cool
I laughed when the credits stared showing!
🤣🤣🤣
He kept it on loop.
1. Physics Matter
2. Use Powers Creatively
3. Use The Pauses
Thanks. I needed to know this for my own story writing. I'm definitely going to have plenty of action sequences.
@lilmil That's actually what I disliked about Civil War, apart from the stupid reasons to go to the war. They disregarded physics too much, the main battle scene was so fake, specially ant-man and how they talked about density, molecules, blabla but when he gets big, he can destroy a plane, while stil weighing 170 pounds...
In my opinion the reason the action scene happens has to be strong u get me?? Like the stakes
czcams.com/video/ocrWorS5mgY/video.html
Are you snyder's fake🙄
@@LtdJorge bruh you sound stupid
Nerdwriter1 Dating advise:
1. Physics Matter
2. Use Powers Creatively
3. Use The Pauses
🔥🔥🔥
Things DC movies do very well. Trash tier video.
Just change first one at that moment chemistry matters more
@@RevJ7 hahahaha found the salty fanboy
Legend has it, that batman is still punching superman
It's the Tethercat Principle.
Press X to Punch
Dc need to learn from Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films.
They are better than all DC movies combined.
@@lickenhuntsman5338 MoS, BvS and Wonder Woman had great action scenes. "all DC movies combined"? Sure....
Even MCU do this, like Carol. Why is you punching Thanos when u literally just blew up a whole spaceship by urself
I always knew I hated lines like, "Don't make me do this," because they're corny and don't add anything but never realized how well Marvel used those pauses.
@double endemnity except for the dark knight, if you consider that a super hero movie
@double endemnity Agreed
People are missing the point about the pauses. It's not about being funny or serious, but having the characters say or do something that's specific to their personalities. There's nothing funny about Captain America telling Spider-Man that he's a New Yorker as well. It's just a moment that's specific between the two of them. The video's point is that the pauses in the DCEU tend to be generic. Anyone who grew up watching the DCAU can attest to this.
Livewire (after being doused w/ water): "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!"
Harley Quinn: "..........Yeah?"
jp3813 yeah!! the point is that if that circumstance played between any other set of characters, the dialogue would be different. Anyone and everyone can and will say “you’ll pay for this” but personal moments like Spider-Man saying where he’s from is an element of his character.
With Marvel its all the same quips tho...It's not specific at all, its all the same feel...The DCEU pauses are basic but serious and specific
John Wonder You might as well claim that Donald Trump is black. Everything you just said is the exact opposite of the facts at hand, and there's absolutely no point of denying it. The video shows it, the comments acknowledge it, both DC and Marvel fans recognize it, and only those living in their own dreamworld would even try to state otherwise.
Crow Father and here we see a Snyder bot in its natural habitat
Crow Father
Oh yes, because bringing up one scene means they do it all the time. And no other DC superhero can tell Waller to shut down her program or his friends will do it for her. CLASSIC BATMAN LINE!!! The fact that even DCAU fans are critical of the DCEU proves that you can't hide behind your Marvel hate. If they're trying to make Batman into a jokey character then BLAME THEM for getting it wrong because Black Panther isn't known as one. As the OP already covered, it's not about being funny or serious at all. Wake up, you desperate homophobe!
4:31 - 4:33 that smooth cut ❤️️❤️️
Wow really it was.
Thank you for pointing this out, can't stop watching it now
The anime cut
Do you know what war movie is at 0:35?
Dunkirk
6:36 to 7:01
"Consecutive normal punches."
You're not getting the credit you deserve.
@@skewedlogic1847 Oh, I never do :P
We need a 10 hour version of that
SAITAMAAAAAA
"Okay, so we've got Batman fighting Superman, how should this iconic battle between two opposites play out?"
"Well, we could play on Batman's unique talents, specifically, his reputation as a detective and master tactician, coming up with comparatively clever and surprising ways of dealing with Superman's abilities. Like turning Superman's strengths into weaknesses, preying on Superman's overconfidence, you know, the wit and guile approach."
"You're fired."
"But I-"
"Get out."
*New guy comes in*
"Alright, what do you think?"
"Umm... He could just shoot him with kryptonite gas and punch him a lot of times."
"Perfect! Take all this money and have it to me by Friday."
''So infinity War, we have a character that has reality bending powers that can alter the whole universe, how should the fight scenes go?''
''We can have half of the movie being a repeat of Avengers 1 and 2 by having characters fighting an army of faceless drones and then Thanos can punch characters while throwing heavy stuff at them.''
''Brilliant! The Transformers Michael Bay tecnique!''
F1NGER lol dafuq what...? The first paragraph you listed is exactly what Batman did in BvS. He used sonic speakers to discord Superman’s super hearing. He used lead in the form of gas so Superman couldn’t see him. He weakened Superman by using kryptonite so he could get on a leveled playing field with him. What do you want him to do play a game of clue with Superman to fight their differences.
Jabber1ngPandA None of that is part of the actual fight. It's just to get Superman to a point where he can punch him (or hit him with a sink). A fight between these characters, who are supposed to be so different, ends up staging and choreographing them interchangeably. One big dude is punching another. Super exciting, guys.
Meanwhile, in the DC Animated Universe, Batman would use tricks and slight of hand to get the upper-hand on Superman, and all this would be actually part of the fight. Basically letting Superman THINK he's won, only to turn it around on him.
czcams.com/video/4l5RK4MSL-o/video.html
F1NGER yeah I agree, the DC animated movies are much more thought through, especially the ones with batman. The killing joke and under the red hood are easily twice as good as jl and still much better than BvS. Even the Superman ones touch more on the mental aspects of the story for example with Superman vs the elite.
F1NGER The video you linked is a moment compared to a full fight. Even in the animated version based on the graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns (the true first BvS) is an example of brute force v brute force. Batman can’t forever use tricks in a fight to someone beyond his power, he eventually has to knock him down a notch (most usually) using kryptonite. Most of the clever tricks you speak of beyond what’s been done in the BvS film defy physics (which our presenter here clarifies as being a bad decision because DCEU). And to the point of that not being part of the actual fight...what? The fight doesn’t start and end based on your opinion. The first blow (the sonic speakers) was an immediate act of war and gave right for Superman to defend himself. Look up any clipped version of the scene and it won’t just start with Superman and Batman punching each other.
czcams.com/video/y0ukzHm-Py4/video.html
Took me a while to figure out that last shot was on loop. As always, great video!
NMDGRPHR-Too i was waiting for the moment that superman regains his strength lol
Honestly BvS in a nutshell
NMDGRPHR-Too IF WE BELIEVE THERES EVEN ONCE PERCENT CHANGE THAT LAST SHOW WASN'T ON LOOP WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY
Kenneth Donnelly hahaha
A lot of great points in the video. Another point: for actions scenes to be good, we need to care about the characters in the story first. If we care about the characters we will usually care about the story. In other words, bland characters make for bland action.
I've always thought the CGI has been strange in DC. Sometimes, it's awesome. Other times, it looks like I made it in photoshop.
BizelZuze Exhibit A: Superman’s CGI upper lip.
Honestly they could’ve just CGI’d a beard and it would’ve worked.
I would say the CGI in Man of Steel and BvS was great.
But Justice League SOMEHOW took a nose dive and everything looked garbage.
Kumbi Superman’s upper lip was likely a rush job and that’s why it looked bad..... but at the Same time look at marvel studios and they usually have their Actors just Shave whenever they do stuff involving younger scenes, because even marvel knows you can CGI Skin over facial hair the Skin just wouldn’t blend
Yearlonggiant it’s not even just the mustache. That was the least of my concerns. In most of the actions scenes the green screen was VERY obvious. Especially when the Justice League fought Superman. Everything blended well in Man of Steel and BvS, but in JL there was such a stark constraint between the actors and the background.
Kumbi well that’s mostly because with Zack Snyder he had a specific Style to his backgrounds almost always having a grey Blueish background, Then with Justice League there was a Certain Style Switch which in turn made Justice Leagues Style inconsistent 🤷♂️
Marvel's Greatest Villan is Thanos the Mad Titan.
DC's Greatest Vilan is
Rotten Tomatoes.
polar bro more like WB
polar bro
And you’re greatest villain is spelling.
@@gonk4509 *your
Oooo, that irony though.....
Michael Cappelli hahaha that irony
That ending is hilarious, awesome job Evan! 😊
Heyo man!!!
Literally about to say. Can't agree more. I would add though you want to see Batman vs Superman you need to watch 'Dark knight returns'.
+
Dan Purcell
"awesome job"
Or awesome *jab*? LOL
rediz Superman getting repeatedly punched in the face to demonstrate durability is in no way creative.
Spiderman struggling underneath the weight of a freight container, just barely able to respond to Cap is a far better example. Also visually demonstrates the amount of heart Cap was refering to
If you have to copy+paste the same clip over and over, to make the point, "too many punches", then perhaps your complaint is invalid.
O-RIGHT!
Abbreviated Reviews Yeah!
MY MAN.
Haha that was a beautiful overlay of what the script must have been like :'D
Oh no, the Justice League are trapped in a Zigerion simulation operating at 5%!
The single worst line... in the history of movies. The room didn't have any lines as bad as this.
"Nothing is graceful or tactical. It's all just BRUTE.FORCE." I think you've summed up the wrong part of DC actions perfectly.
I think that applies for DCEU movies as a whole as well. No good, smart plot. Just brute force action scenes
@@luciusnguyen2449 but far better than trash mcu
That's bullshit at finest, Warehouse scene in BVS shows how this whole video is wrong. You can see Batman being as tactical as he can be. And is the best Batman fight sequence ever.
I agree with everything. In addition, DCEU made their heroes too invincible. Every hit inflicted on them doesn’t seem to hurt them. The only character that should be with is Superman unless kryptonite is involved.
Batman is oddly amped for sure, but Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Cyborg are legitimately that durable though.
Wonder woman and aquaman dude
Even Superman shouldn't be invulnerable.
That actually shouldn't be a problem, really. I mean, even Superman isn't invincible at some level. Yeah, probably in a hand to hand combat he is invincible (like WW or Aquaman) but there are other types of action set pieces that can give him a challange while still made an engaging action sequence.
The most cliché example I have is a meteor aproximating the earth. He can't just punch it (well, technically he can but still isn't a good idea) so he has to come up with a more clever solution and use his powers in a creative way.
@ Or maybe he could used something clever like punching lasers in the Fleischer Bros cartoon.
Awesome synopsis. Ending was perfect.
Overuse the same scene over and over again in order to be seen as tedious. How is that perfect?
It is *the point*
What's sad is he used that scene but cut it right before the moment of levity during the fight, which he says is missing... This entire video is cherry-picked to fit his narrative.
ItsTheJester yeah. He has a good point overall but that part of that fight was the best part of that whole movie.
Every marvel movie is as repetitive as that end
That ending loop was 👌👌👌
Nater for real lol
Nater it was hard to tell it was a loop at first because that's almost exactly how I remembered that part
But what if it wasn't actually a loop?
The ending is such proof of the obvious Bias that the CZcamsr has for MCU. It takes the credibility away from having an unbiased, educated view of the DCEU and it's issues.
GeminiWest not really, you’re just reaching
For those of you who defend the DCEU, think about the time in Justice League: Unlimited where the league fights a nanotech machine in Dark Heart. When the Batplane is damaged and Batman ejects, his ejection seat is damaged and he plummets to earth. While falling, he says, "Batman to all points, I could really use some help here, since I can't fly...at all. Now would be good". That was comedy gold, hearing Batman acknowledge his lack of powers in a deadpan manner. Not just here, the majority of the DCAU movies and TV shows combine action and comedy to make it enjoyable. So why can't DCEU do it right? Simple, beat the MCU by any means necessary. It's their motto from day one. They clearly didn't pay attention to the source material. DC is dark, complex and more interesting, but the subtle humor in between the darkness is what balances it, which sadly isn't in the DCEU. Marvel knows it's weak points, and by getting the cast, writers and action right, they're ruling the roost at the box office.
the thing is dc movie fans are mostly edgy teens that they themselves don't get dc heroes, winter soldier is just or more serious than BvS without trying to be gray and profound.
And I've always loved both universes but it makes me sad how the movies try so hard to avoid the source material it's like they took only the serious/realistic storylines but butchering them and that's it marvel takes everything good and bad, serious and campy as fuck and makes it work togueter.
you can't be super serious with spiderman but the vulture balances it out, you CAN go gritty dark with batman like the nolan trilogy, but if you half ass your batman action/fight senes it feels just empty.
serious stuff can be done but it needs a lot of good writing and directing, and that's what the WB movies lack
But Marvel does this every single time action is going on. It's not earned at all. We just expect it now. And in BvS you have many small moments that make you smirk but doesn't take you fully out of the movie like Marvel. When Batman is hitting Superman and the kryptonite start wearing off and Batman gets that oh shit look on his face. When Batman crashes in Gotham harbor and he is confronted by Doomsday and says, "oh shit". When Superman enters the fight and asks Bats if he found the spear and Bats says, "been a little busy". Or when Superman asks Batman if Wonder Women is with him. All those moments are earned and make sense in the context of the fight. Most of Marvel's is just witty banter that makes almost no sense within the context of the fight itself.
@@jsaiz187505 Yes and no. And I'll explain. When Batman says, "Since I can't fly, at all" he meant it seriously. Yet his deadpan delivery made it comedy gold. Likewise, many of the DCAU moments, though scripted/unscripted, were funny in the sense, that each of the characters were having opposing personalities. For example, when Superman comes back from the future, everyone says that Batman missed him too, to which Batman says, "I never thought you were dead". He has done a fantastic job of controlling his emotions when needed. And that's part of Batman's character, why he always has control over his emotions and his mind. Because of that, the league fear him for what he is. And in Justice League, we see a Batman that is so happy to see Superman, has difficulty speaking to him and gives off an air of awkwardness. Also, he's a lot quippy/wisecracking Batman, which turned off people. You can't compare this Batman as the greatest, simply because he had a few badass fight scenes ( which I think is awesome). The greatest asset of Batman is not his skills, it's his mind. That's something his enemies are wary of most. And that, sadly was absent in Justice League.
@@jsaiz187505 Marvel makes movies for the sole purpose of being goofy and funny. They intend to be funny when doing fights, interactions or anywhere else. That's their endgame. Which is why it works. You get the idea that the Avengers are just everyday people, doing their jobs while joking and laughing about it, and that makes them relatable to us. They think of their skills/powers/abilities as a curse or a necessity in order to do the right thing. DC characters are more brooding, always about responsibilities and whatnot. You can't imagine the Justice League living ordinary lives, without visualising them for one moment as their alter egos. We can't relate to their real lives because, they make sure people don't. Whereas with Marvel, it's mostly the opposite. And that's where people are hooked. It's human nature. Or rather, the movie goers' nature.
@@talkshow69 You couldn't be more wrong. The jokes and laughing during a serious situation is not at all relatable. I'm in law enforcement and when we have a scuffle with a bad guy, there is no fun and games and ha ha ha during it. Those come before or after. They are earned. Marvel characters are a bunch of good looking, super powred, comedians. There is nothing relatable about that. They are open about who they are and what they do because they all are egotistical self centered people. They all think they are doing the right thing, yet having fights amongst themselves that end up meaning nothing the farther we go into the MCU. There is literally no consequence to anything that happens in this world because the next bad guy has to be taken down. Name me one consequence that happened because of civil war that is brought up in any other movie after it? This world is not relatable because no one even changes. It all becomes plot fuel. DC actually explored what happened in MoS. It made the characters think, feel, and in the end change. People were too busy trying to find the one liners and a spoon-fed explanation to what's going on they forgot to watch the movie. They were too busy trying to find simple character driven moments they forgot to watch the characters grow. There is one thing DC movies never really get dinged on very often and that is the action. It's usually that it might have been too CGI heavy at points or it was too long. But that's only because they have been brain washed to think that super hero movies, especially the action scenes must be meta, witty, and self aware. Because superhero movies should not be taken seriously. Just my take on it.
You need a flashlight to watch DC movies
Just buy one. Suppose to be cheap
@Akok Longkumer dude it's a common joke, it's not stealing
and you need to lose a brain to enjoy a mcu film.
@@tacoman1617
Your username is a pretty bad superhero name that's for sure.
Ike Okereke It's not meant to be a superhero name but hey you have a LBP Kratos pic, respect. fun series. same cant be said about god of war though but little big planet was fun
I remember this one screenwriter talking about how a scene should be doing more than one thing at once, and that if it doesn't, you should stop and think about how you could incorporate more into it; Especially when it comes to fight scenes, and a lot of movies remind of how true that is.
So....Pirates of the Caribbean, Accidentally Genius?
There's a great video here on CZcams by Super Eyepatch Wolf about how the fight choreography itself can and should tell a story in itself. Well worth a watch.
The sad thing is that DC had it all laid down in front of them regarding plot, action, set pieces, humor, style, etc. It was their animated universe: The Batman, Superman and Justice League series. What a waste.
I guess the difference is that they hired competent writers and especially competent directors for the animated movies. And it shows, the animated movies are so much better indeed.
Kévin Le Gall For those products they at least hires people who understands the original material. Say what you want about Kevin Feige but, he is a huge comic books fan. He doesn't really want to deviate from the source material, he's more interested in following it than making it his own.
Sir Grampton Hampterfuppinshire of Cummington Someone seems upset.
Off course there will be a deviation from the comics. There were a lot of changes in the DC animated universe but at their chore, the characters and theirs motives remained intact.
Can't say the same about Snyder's «vision».
Sir Grampton Hampterfuppinshire of Cummington Snyder didn't understand anything besides visual iconography. That's about it. It explains why his depiction of Superman or Batman are purely superficial and wrong.
He even said it himself, he doesn't like the non serious comics. He only cares for The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen. Because they're «mature», «grim» and «dark». Stating that you intend to make a film in which Batman would get raped in prison just shows a displaced sense of focus. It's only about the aspect, the images, the figures, nothing more. It's boring and empty.
Sir Grampton Hampterfuppinshire of Cummington Deviating from the source material is fine as long as it's good. The DCAU was TOTALLY different from the comics in many key ways and yet it made things work within the context of its own universe.
The DCEU is shit.
Imagine owning the two most popular superhero characters of all time yet ruining your movies anyway.
3 or 4... Include wonder woman and green lantern.
They don't own Spider-Man...
@@theavatar9191 was talking about Batman and Superman.
@@Pantano63 Spider-Man and Batman are the 2 most popular superheroes
@@theavatar9191 Yea, you're probably right but still, DC fucked up so badly. They wasted their chance.
2:58 did not age well
Avoid plot armor is rule #1 for good storytelling ... if you do something to your hero that would kill them, the story is over.
Still has me crying and laughing.We’re talking about endgame right.
I feel like Wonder Woman and it's genuinely good set pieces got left out of this discussion. WW's action scenes did not have witty one-liners but they did require her to use her skill set creatively as well as interact with her environment and her team in a way that I found utterly gripping. The final fight scene not so much obviously, but the fight on Themsecyra, the fist fight in London, the crossing of no man's land and the liberation of Veld? Those were fantastic!
@YEONWOO MA that's why Ben Affleck left DC, he didnt feel like DC weren't putting him to his full potential
Personally I find Wonder Woman to be the best DC movie to date. I think it was left out because it's such an outlier in the DCEU.
I think it would be cool if DC would do something different with their movies, instead of just other superhero movies. Like a batman detective movie. But then a genuine detective story. Or a green lantern buddy cop movie. Green lanterns are just space cops. or maybe a disaster movie about trying to get baby Kal-El to his escape pod.
floppiethethirth i think that was the plan when Snyder first started to build the DCEU, but WB keeps shifting things around. I think its still somewhat in the realm of possibility though! Hopefully :D
floppiethethirth I think they said that the batman movie will be more focused on the detective side. The director wants to make it like a neo-noir film, which sounds amazing.
The not so amazing thing is he's been writing for 16 months and they're still deciding on who the villain is going to be.
Turbo Nerdo i doubt that, he's probably figured it all out and has a script near ready. Rumors are the bane of the industry, dont rely on em too much.
Turbo Nerdo tbh they should take their time to write a good story first as that is something the DCEU is lacking in.
Batman’s warehouse fight scene was kinetic fluid and pretty badass -just should be mentioned
Yeah those things they seem to forget
Personally, I think the warehouse scene and Batman fighting Superman in BvS were really good. Which is probably the reason why I didn’t hate the movie to the core.
1:05 lmao I had to rewind the video because I missed a few points laughing too much. That was unexpected (but welcome!) from a Nerdwriter video.
Me, too
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌👌🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💯💯💯💯
That was brilliant timing!
A surprise for sure. But a welcome one.
You're so right! That was surprising but so welcome!
One of my biggest gripes, which I actually did an essay on, is that DC movies no one looks hurt at all. Even in the better action the of Wonder Woman it is just plain impossible to be worried about the stakes of the scene when she doesn’t have a scratch on her.
Harrison Cordle's Persona
It's a demigod versus guys with bolt action rifles. In that light, it doesn't seem as heroic.
Yeah, but she can be hurt, thats why she wears the bracelets and uses them to stop bullets instead of using her hands. She also fought a god and I dont remember her being hurt in that battle (but I may be wrong about that)
totally agree
actually no she hasn't been hurt by bullets in a while, she mostly uses them in comics to block attacks from people stronger than herself because A she can blitz them, and B considering her and superman in comics are now planetary in strength and durability they aren't hurt by bullets.
well, maybe they just have bad actors. Ben Affleck shouldnt sign those bloody contract in the first place
That ending is so good.
The ending part is hurt to see🤣😂
WOW!!! I had a strange feeling about DCEU action scenes, but I just didn't know what it was til you mentioned it. Their lack of physics and character truly was a missing ingredient. Watching Man of Steel I just remember everything feeling too watery despite of all the weight it was trying to convey with things breaking. It just happened too rubbery.
Marvel has had its fair share of bad films such as Thor 2 and Age of Ultron, but I would still rather watch those movies on loop than watch BvS or Justice League because the MCU is committed to making movies people can have fun with, even at their worst. I get that DC is supposed to be darker, and I respect that, but darker should mean more grounded characters and real stakes. The DCEU seems to think "dark" just means grey skies, minimal dialogue, and forgettable action.
Vinck Nade I have never seen more grounded characters in a Comic Book Movie than in DC Films. Superman is a man who just wants to help people, something that he chose to do since he was a little boy, but his status as an immigrant makes it harder for him to do so.
Batman witnessed an attack, the likes of which have never been seen in his life and lost sight of who he is and what he stands for, in his quest for revenge against the one he holds responsible.
Wonder Woman is taking her first steps in a world she's unfamiliar with, believing every person is naturally good and that they're corrupted by "the Devil".
If you have never met someone who has experienced this kind of thing, or have never met someone who has experienced this kind of thing, you must not get out much.
Also, in terms of stakes, the stakes have never been higher than in a DC Film. The only exception probably being "Infinity War". I can't day for certain because "Civil War" disappointed me so much I haven't seen their follow up yet.
Clark must reveal his identity to the world, risking the safety of everyone in Smallville, and all the people he's saved since he left Smallville, or Earth will be destroyed.
Batman's soul, Wonder Woman's faith in humanity being restored, and the fate of the world depend on Superman finding hope again.
DC Films (at least the ones that haven't been hacked to pieces in post production) have grounded characters and they have stakes. The darkness of them is to make the light shine that much brighter when the heroes overcome it. The only problem is that it's almost all in what is shown, and sometimes if someone isn't told what they are shown, they can come to the wrong conclusions on it.
Age of Ultron wasn't bad wtf
Age of Ultron definitely has some story problems but it gave us some of the best action sequences in the MCU. That Hulkbuster scene was amazing, plus I’m pretty sure Cap throws a freakin motorcycle at someone at some point. Also, who can argue with the Avengers sitting around drinking and trying to lift Thor’s hammer? That scene will forever be a classic.
Winter Naomi Vera
But amidst all that grounded characterization you feel from DCEU characters, do you really feel a connection with them or be empathetic over situations, especially personal, they are facing?
A popular argument is people say Marvel already has more than 15 movies and DCEU only has 5 that's why MCU characters are more fleshed out and already have character. But Superman and Yondu both played part in two movies before they were "killed" off, why are people of the mass general are more gutted and emotional towards Yondu's death?
I believe that is what the DCEU screenplay and writing department still can't figure out.
Age of ultron is not that bad
I am a huge fan of the mcu but the dark night trilogy is amazing
thought so too until I saw them last week again, and Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Returns genuinely bored me.. maybe Christian Bale wasn't such a great bat after all
Fight scenes in BatNolan suck.
@alice he wasn’t a good Batman. And if it wasn’t for The Joker 🃏 in Dark Knight that movie wouldn’t be good at all
Lamar Shakur that maybe is true I just like the voice but Ben afflack is a lot better and the Heath ledger was really giid
Alice Lidell are u high the dark knight is the best trilogy ever and it doesn’t even have a movie called the dark knight returns
The warehouse scene from bvs is one of the best superhero action sequence I have ever seen
[people talking alone]
The root problem with the entire DCEU is rushed production. Whatever problems it has on its films are only the branches.
Yeah, and they rush the writing.
Peter Frank rushed production?
Jesus Christ you are both so stupid
IRON MAN 2008 - Avengers 2012 , 4 years
MAN OF STEEL 2013 - JUSTICE LEAGUE 2017 , 4 years..
Rush my friend ? I dont see it .
BTW i am hardcore DC fan .
Not really. Only Suicide Squad was rushed.
MoS, BvS and WW were not rushed at all. For JL, it's hard to say given it changed directors.
The Nolan trilogy stands out as having incredible writing and pretty grounded set-pieces. It's a real shame the films/writers that came afterwards don't value story as much as visuals. Marvel have been incredible in recent years but there are still a few boring Marvel films, maybe I just ignore them because there are so many good Marvel films lol
You mean the directors. Writers have nothing to do with visuals
Nerdwriter1: criticizes the DCEU
Also Nerdwriter1: Shows a Joss Whedon movie
"O right."
When I first heard that in the cinema I was like. "Oh no."
As of late, mad max and John wick have had me most engaged in their action scenes. So fresh and unique. Dc is like watching a dark, muddy rain puddle
Right cos the warehouse scene in BvS was just a "muddy rain puddle"... and the Knightmare scene also in BvS is just "dark" for you? If you ask me those fight scenes are 10x better than cheap fast cut actions scenes that so many movies including Marvel have used.
oh man
nerdwriter video essays are like watching actual movies, but with better plots and cooler dialogues
yeah! Stop complimenting the youtuber you like and who's hard work you recognize and enjoy! God damn jabroni
Kabir Fardin some actual movies are good, you just need to look for them
Xhyher Cypher you know, the CZcams comment section is actually not made for haters only...
Edit: one thing i hate about super hero movies, is that super heroes exchange cheesy lines after showing off super powers... i know its how you stamp scenes, and make audience laugh ... Nolan's Batman series was able to make audience think, and feel violence, without super powers and cheesy lines ..thus, the whole movie gets stamped in my head,
Mythical Slytherin i never said actual movies are bad...
What makes the fights in the MCU so good is the focus on the characters. The characters aren’t tossed into a fight; a fight is built around the characters and their abilities. Say what you want about Marvel’s shortcomings in others areas, but their respect towards their characters is unparalleled.
I enjoyed the slow-mo when Aquaman's brother (Ocean Master?) landed on the submarine when they were fighting.
DC should hire you to fix their movies. Period.
sure this guy went to film school and all but come on, warner bros wouldn''t hire some youtuber to fix anything lmao
why? where does the "DC MAKERS" come from?
Jules Vox never say never. They must clearly see that their movies are lacking and get bad ratings. If only one decision maker in the DC universe that loves Evans analysis, chances might be they would invite him for some consulting. It’s a very very small chance, but still. A chance.
reverse engineers, That'd be horrible. No one wants a CZcams-quality movie.
PSYCHOBEVO Who's talking about a CZcams-quality movie?
MoS has the best fight scenes out of all of these superhero movies imo. Blew me away when I first saw it. Felt like I was actually watching Superman from the comics zip around and do his thing. The fights were just intense and really portrayed what it would be like to see characters that strong and fast fighting each other. That score too, I mean, Jesus, Hans Zimmer fucking nailed the music behind the Zod fight.
4:32 that transition thooo
Superman is one of my favorites and it frustrates me the only use his super strength and flight.
Hardly ever heat vision and you can forget super breath.
This is why I really enjoyed the moment when Flash zoomed around Superman and Superman looked at him.
Captain America vs SHIELD/HYDRA Strike Team. The Elevator Fight Scene is one of the best for me.
Great cinematics or camera movement is also a great thing in these movies. A great example is 0:31. I love that shot
Are you just trolling us?
*Mr. Regret playlist*
Yea I always feel like a dumb dumb watching the fast and furious movies on dvd, but the action can be so good at times it's worth the build up.
Furious 7
"great cinematics" that's so vague dude. And that camera roll, imo, doesn't add much to the scene. Would have been more brutal to just show the rock smash the transporter on the glass table with a steady cam.
The airport fight in civil war, the first time i watched it, made me feel like a kid again, the 8 year old me playing with hes toys staging big fights. Another thing i mark out its when marvel heroes combine their powers or fight back to back and coreograph their moves, Thor hiting Captain Americas shield, Cap passing the shiled to Bucky and Bucky passing it back, they happen in the middle of fights, theirs no slow down or zoom in, but every time i watched them they popped to me.
MCU Cap is the best representation of the peak human in comics and combat skills, he's acting exactly like in the comics, I'd love to see the same treatment for Batman one day, but DC haven't Marvel Studios...
Yea i expected batman to be flipping around too. The fight scene where he rescues Martha was great tho
Cap isn't just peak human in the MCU...no peak human can do what Cap does. Learn the difference between the comics universe and the Movie universe.
@@mikehogan5824 Most of his feats can be replicated by 616 Cap, and he's a peak human
@@mikehogan5824 He's peak human potential. Basically an evolved human.
INT. Hellscape - Hell
Apparently Hell’s in Russia for some reason.
Punching hard and taking a hard punch seems to be the only powers a lot of superheroes in film have these days. That's why I prefer the X-Men movies. Those heroes can't get thrown all over the place and stand up without a scratch. They'd die just like I would. I can relate to that. I can't relate to two near-indestructible people slugging and throwing one another through buildings and suffering no ill effects. Not unless you put a damage meter on the screen so I know when someone is in actual danger.
racewiththefalcons1 yh I can also relate getting sliced by 3 claws
You make a seriously valid point but that’s another thing marvel seems to have balanced out more than dc. Thor, hulk, iron man and even cap to a lesser degree can handle way bigger impacts and damage than black widow or Hawkeye. Yet they still leave room for those characters to be useful.
A problem with Batman on screen with superman and wonder woman is that he’s the main guy for the most part. So when he’s involved in their conflicts they need so much more bs to make it work that it... doesn’t.
Daredevil was so good because you could see the battle wear on him more and more and he even used his genuine fatigue as a feint
Ron
Like how they handled him in BvS? Where there was no BS at all when it came to Doomsday?
The thing is with NerdWriter's perspective is that he conventiently left out the "just started out" part of the super heroes. Where MCU made their heroes know just what to do when it came to fighting almost instantaneously, whereas the DCEU obviously made theirs newbies, with the exception of wonder woman and batman.
Quite frankly, I seem to lean towards the realism in the DCEU's brutal punches and choreography more. Since they captured the "Super poweredness" of their heroes, whereas the MCU seems so weak and quite frankly so clearly choreographed with almost always bad performance by the artists and stunt men.
Agree a lot with this comment. Felt like this especially on wonder woman that every one was loving... if the villain or super hero has unlimited or at least unclear powers you're forced to accept anything and you dont fear for the hero at all... that's boring and skippable
I feel like Shazam really improved on most of these points. Hopefully the dceu continues to do this into the future.
Shazam kinda did, but you still don't see many creative uses of power, as you do in the MCU.
@@dauntless64 bitch mcu is trash its all the same shit in every marvel movie i dont know when u morons understand this shit .dont agree with me just watch those movies in arow ull get how boring and cheap marvel movies are
stfu DC fanboiz
@@herloss448 Stop being so butt hurt,we get it DC movies can’t compare to “garbage”.If the MCU is cheap,than there putting money in good places.WB seems to be throwing money in the shredder after every Snyder entry.
Don’t get me started with how boring some movies in the MCU,but I could at least follow it.I swear Suicide squad actually made me tired of watching movies and BvS had me almost fall asleep in some parts.
@@dauntless64 I mean Shazam is a new character,his basic abilities are punching,flying and lightning.You can’t really be more creative in an origin movie with those powers.Tony was still using basic stuff in his first movies and Thor didn’t really do much with his hammer 🔨 in his first flick.Hopefully the sequel would expand things.
1:55 I love how Captain America receives a punch from Iron-man in the face and he just counterpunches back.
5:27 I like how this one didn't even need a pause for the quips. Marvel nailed Spidey on the big screen like none other.
5:44 Great character interactions are priceless among comic book fans, and it's one of the things we hope to see on the big screen especially in crossovers.
Harvey Dent: "Get outta my face, clown!"
Joker: "Which one?"
Storm: "Power of lightning, strike again!"
Spider-Man: "Um... power of web shooters, get real sticky!"
@dragon stare24 Right, the argument scene in Avengers 1 is a great example of serious interactions. As well as the interrogation scene in The Dark Knight.
More Like
Storm: You know what happens when lightning strikes a toad?
@@apemayor3046 Toad didn't interact much with that line. XD
The same thing that happens to everything else.
@@apemayor3046 Her other nickname is Captain Obvious.
I got so into the Marvel fights that you showed. Then, when you flipped back to the DC ones, I'm like 'oh no, I was really getting into it, dammit'. Funny, how you just forget the DC fights, coz they are just not memorable.
Or he cherry picked the fights he wanted? Why did he leave out the Batman Warehouse Scene or No Man's Land?
+Trafalgus Apple Because focusing on one exception would be weird when you're justifying your stance.
Trafalgus Apple That is one of the more interesting DC fights to say the least. But, first time I saw it, I did have problems with it. There are a couple of shots where the thugs are in the shot with a huge amount of dead space around them. What happens next; Batman comes breaking out of a wall, in that dead space. To me, what should have been an unexpected Batman entrance was ruined by poor camera angles choices that kinda hinted something was gonna happen in that 'space'.
+MADK 27 Then how did people remember them enough to spawn the biggest franchise of all time? If people didn't remember these movies, Infinity War wouldn't be about to hit $2B.
Yeah, this made me want to rewatch Civil War and Winter Soldier.
The show "Miraculous Ladybug" has had a few episodes that were really good examples of using powers creatively. It becomes really fun to see how the heroes counter each villain's new set of rules.
I did not expect to see a MLB comment here hahaha
The absolute best example I've ever encountered of creative power usage is a webseries called Worm. In it, a character whose only power is that she can control bugs ends up becoming one of the most feared people on the *planet,* specifically because she's freaking brilliant strategically and uses her power better than almost anyone else. She constantly thinks about how she would use other people's abilities better than they do, and the general sentiment is that if she were to get a stronger power she'd be basically unstoppable. And this is in a world with several Golden Age type heroes, including one who's basically Wonder Woman (plus super-intelligence), one who can switch powers as needed, one who can basically create an invulnerable, unstoppable psionic avatar, and many, many more. The powers are also all super well developed and have drawbacks and limits that are all very logical and make perfect sense in-universe, with the author even adding (or leaving out) secondary powers that are usually taken for granted in other superhero stories, like someone who has superhuman strength ALSO needs a certain level of superhuman durability in order to not literally destroy their own body.
@@DarthRayj Ah, a fellow Worm enjoyer! I'm always glad to run into another one of my people in the wild. There aren't enough of us out there - but Wildbow deserves all the credit we can give him. Superpowers have never been the same to me since I read Worm.
@@DarthRayj A key part of how Wildbow writes distinctive superheroes in Worm is that he will take a generic powerset and then add or remove limitations/secondary powers to make it more interesting.
Like, let's look at some of the speedsters in Worm. On the one hand, there's Velocity, who can slow down his perspective on time and move at hyper-speed like the Flash. However, his time field only surrounds his body (e.g., he can't really carry anything like a weapon with him), and the faster he goes, the weaker he gets. So he can move really fast and cover you with light punches, or he can run up and punch you normally, but he can't zoom out of nowhere and clock you at Mach 2. That particular permutation of super-speed makes Velocity a good scout and recon operative, but he's not that powerful in a straight fight.
On the other hand, we have Chuckles: a speedster with super strength in his upper body and super speed in his lower body. This allows him to deliver Mach-speed punches and totally dumpster his enemies with brutal efficiency. However, he got some kind of brain damage from his power that made him mostly mute - all he can do is make this weird, distorted laughing sound (hence the name). More importantly, his power slowed down his perception of time so he could use his super speed effectively - but his experience of time is slowed down permanently, so he can barely interact with the normal world anymore. It all looks like slow motion to him now - and it drove him insane. Now he's an insane, superpowered terrorist who traveled the world with a group of truly horrifying villains to wreak havoc wherever they went.
You see how this works? There's one idea here - speedster powers - but by changing the limits, secondary powers, and side effects, Wildbow made two completely different characters! One is a weak, scouting superhero, and one is an insane nightmare monster. God, what a great series. If you haven't read Worm, I HIGHLY recommend it. Fair warning though: it has some fucked up shit in it.
@@Drekromancer Excellent points.
And yeah, there's some REAL bad shit in it. To the point of being intensely uncomfortable to read, and potentially impossible to watch if it were adapted to screen (I still really want to adapt it though).
Im just gonna say,
Christian bale is amazing
Best films ever!
Yeah, I grew up a DC fan. Mainly Batman. Never really cared for Marvel. Mainly because Captain America always sounded Cheesy to me, same with Captain Marvel. Never thought I'd be into the Marvel films. And DC's been heart breaking. I keep rooting for them, but they keep messing with my emotions. :P At least there will always be Batman: The Animated Series. That and a few good movies. Something that can't ever be taken away. Well, any time soon anyway. Well... who knows I guess.
I was watching the Marvel CU from early on but i avoided captain america because i was terrified it was going to be a patriotic nightmare. Being british, I really don't want to waste 2 hours of my life hearing how great america is.
i am so happy it isn't that at all.
I've never been much of a superman fan, but even the earlier films understood that the real problems facing supes isn't the physical threats but the emotional ones. now he just punches guys all the time.
the dark knight trilogy movies are good, although it's hard to say if it's DC "universe" if there's only only batman.
Captain America has always been great! Go back and read Ed Brubaker’s run especially- that’s where the Winter Soldier and the espionage aspect came from.
Yea captain America has a cheesy name but hes one of my favorite super heroes
Yeah, I grew up up a Marvel fan. Never really cared for DC until I wasn't a bit older. Iron Man is my favorite superhero of all time. And I could not care LESS for the MCU. They ruined too much great stories that I love to make me love them. I'm excited for that Venom movie, though, because it's not MCU. Doesn't look like kiddie crap that MCU pops out.
Superhero fatigue
Mcu earned 4b this year, yeah superhero fatigue
Just cuz you're tired doesn't mean you can't keep running
You're also talking about the year Marvel released the movie that the past ten years have been building up to.
On top of that, add Deadpool 2's gross and how much Venom's gonna gross. Marvel's total gross this year will be about $5.5B.
Most probably even higher next year.
i personally contributed with 200 dollars
@@NonJohns yes but your pace will decrease and you'll be "tired" that's the point of being tired that you slow down, but superhero movies aren't slowing down, box office directly indicates the interest of audience, look at transform series box office it's decreasing that means audience is getting tired of that series but cbm movies are earning more and more
Batman's hallway scene and the nightmare fights are both incredible
so superman has never kicked anyone
‘Love that cut to a Mad Max Fury Road clip when you mentioned spectacular action scene :))
Great video, and so true.
In Iron Man, Tony Stark used the fact that the early version of the Iron Suit would freeze in high altitude, against Obediah Stane.
In Man of Steel, I thought that Zod and the other Kryptonians would be overwhelmed by their sudden superhearing power （hearing all different sounds and voices like young Clark）and that Superman would use that to his advantage. But the movie barely touched upon this and it was just punching and punching. There is no intelligence and finesse in their fight scenes.
Ming Fai Ho Superman killing people cringe AF. Supes supposed save them and what did he do punch Zod in the buildings. FFS that is just wrong on so many levels. I don't like for what he stands, and that is bad writing. He is "good" but for me arrogant confused asshole. That MOFO Zack Snyder ruined DCEU.
Man of Steel, BvS... the Snyder approach is always centered on being pompous and self-important.
The MCU approach is based self-awareness: Marvel KNOWS that they are making dumb movies about flying aliens, magicians and shrinking people, but they know how to do this in a smart way.
Snyder thinks he is making deep, pseudo-philosophical movies, but in the end they are just piss-poor dumb movies of men in tights punching each other that takes itself way too seriously.
You want him to slow someone's cancer by specifically burning those cells with his laser eyes or maybe go to the center of the sun to keep it working.
@@mfh6385 The thing is that the MCU has managed to be philosophically and emotionally deep several times. Because the characters are real people, not just representatives of a certain world view.
@Scott Summers Who are you talking to?
In any case, they probably meant that the subject matter is often a great excuse to just have fun. And it makes sense for the characters to have fun too.
Batman's warehouse fight in BvS is still one of best that I've seen
DC : gods fighting each other
Marvel : destruction across 3 cites and around 300 casualties
Apparently in the city of New York, one of the most populated cities in the world, an alien invasion has claimed very few victims, almost none in Avengers. But then in MoS, "eh, too many victims"!!! Seriously?
@@allends7372 Dude... 74 people died in avengers 1, and 177 people died in aaou. A lot more people died than you think.
I don't see how any discussion of contemporary superhero action scenes can be complete without a mention of Captain America: The Winter Soldier. TWS has the best hand to hand combat of any of the marvel movies, especially the scene when Cap meets Bucky for the first time. The visceral nature of the scene brought to life by two evenly matched super-people along with the scintillating background score and quick editing lend an urgency and sense of vulnerability to the characters. Also, unlike other Marvel movies the action is not interspersed with random quips and chit chat.
But then again Cap is the kind of character that does not necessitate the use of CGI in his action sequences. But even when we talk about the likes of Hulk and Thor, MCU employs "clean" CGI and don't over saturate their frames to the point that the surroundings are nearly unrecognizable. BvS and JL are so heavily stylized in their effort to replicate comic book panels exactly that they lose a vital sense of realism to them. Man of Steel's final sequence has Superman and Zod continually hurling each other at buildings with little regard to ordinary humans caught in the fray. The disappointment isn't so much in that Superman does not attempt to curtail the damage, but in that the movie itself does not pay more attention to the civilians at risk. Contrast this with the action scene in Avengers where we see Cap actively instructing the police forces and working towards the evacuation of people from the area. MoS's CGI destruction prompted complaints and this was dealt with in BvS by having the final fight scene away from civilian populations, but again, that didn't do it any favours. With even less innocent bystanders in sight and even more CGI, the situation is further ostracized.
One other aspect that is detrimental to DCEU action scenes is the use of slow motion with zero restraint. Even WW which has better action scenes is let down because every time WW would launch herself at a soldier, the kinetics are lost as exaggerated slow motion is employed.
There are some who complain that the Civil War airport scene is poor because the visuals are highly neutered and it looks like a dreary Wednesday afternoon at the airport. But it is because of the lack of stylization that we can more easily buy into the prospect of superheroes landing blows against each other. And more importantly, the manner in which the superheroes combine with each other and play off each other's strength and weaknesses is fantastic. And while it definitely lacked a sense of danger(;they were holding back because frens), the final scene in Russia between Cap, Iron Man and Bucky fills in, with a strong emotional core and yet again, hand to hand combat heightens the stakes.
Finally I believe the best action scenes are not just the ones that have good "fighting" but instead those that teach us something about the character to boot. That is why the No Man's Land sequence is WW is soo good, because for once the slow motion is justified by the theme behind it; it is earned. This is why the Cap-Stark-Bucky scene in the aforementioned Civil War is so good. Superman sacrificing himself in BvS would've worked if they'd built the character enough, or atleast have made him fall to a worthy opponent.
To conclude, if DC were to better elucidate the precise nature of the powers of their characters and employ cleaner CGI with tad less stylization and slow motion, they really could make some great actions. As it is, their climactic battles are little more than loud CGI fests.
This is spot on. Best comment on here.
The video does mention Winter Soldier
CA:WS action is wayyy overrated... Choppy and too many cuts. Spiderman usually owns this fluid. And no cuts on hits.
Personal preference I guess, but I'm of the opinion that an action scene is not bad exclusively because of quick cuts; there is a clear difference between a Taken 3-esque fight scene and a CA:TWS one. The former has the camera shaking to make up for dismal choreography and action, while the latter uses quick cuts to accentuate the kinetics of the scene. When it comes to this type of action, I feel TWS does it best.
If you mean the Sam Raimi Spiderman movies, I 100% agree with you. Those beautiful long shots of Spidey swinging from building to building are fantastic. It's far less taxing and way more inviting than TWS action but I think both have their strengths and have different appeals. One invokes a sense of adventure in the more traditional superhero sense, and the other is unnerving and claustrophobic.
Ritesh U Shreenidhi
Agree that its prefernce.
Which is why I'd take a chinese production jackie movie for my action fill.. over any marvel movie.
As much as camera is for pacing, and feel.. editing also ends up as tool to hide poor skill of actors in the action dept.
movies like bourne started the trend for such action and have lowered our expectations for clean action in Hollywood films.
I dont hate it. Its certainly passable, but I just feel like somewhere my brain doesn't get fooled. (esp. on 2nd time watches)
I usually struggle to recap memorable fights in MCU.
But thor vs hulk and iron man hulk. Both don't need to resort to cuts as much and definitely benefit from CG.
Even though its a trade off for a level of realism.
Remember DC; Making Action Realistic Thrills Home Audiences. I'm sure there's an acronym in there somewhere..
They probably had Batman working on the choreography and special effects. So there's no way he would have figured out M.A.R.T.H.A without someone telling him. I mean, this is a guy who figured out Superman was Clark Kent, but somehow didn't also figure out that Clark Kent has a mother named Martha Kent. World's Greatest Detective my ass.
WHY DID YOU SPELL THAT NAME?!?! LOL
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?
Well played, good human.
Charley Newman umm batman never figured out superman was clark, Clark figured out batman was bruce. Luthor figured out both of their identities.
Batmans fight scene in BVS has beautiful physicality
Yeah, but you wont see that on this video... wonder why...
@@cristhiangaitan3392 cause it's like, that rare occasion, along with WW's second act fight.
@@cristhiangaitan3392DCEU's best action scene was 5 films ago, you don't see how that looks bad?
@@cristhiangaitan3392 He's a Marvel boy...
@@cristhiangaitan3392 hes an avengay fan
damn it feels disgusting seeing Josh's justice league compared to zack's justice league
Literally the same action scenes. czcams.com/video/cEfEJiRGCys/video.html
This is one of the reasons why I prefer the MCU over the DCEU.
And Batman is actually one of my favorite superhero.
Same here, and I Superman is my favorite hero so it also bothers me.
Yep, Superman is my favorite too, and that character has so much more depth than the DCEU gave him. I mean, Superman isn't just eternally stoic, sad or confused about what he is. Also the weird physics in the DCEU is something I noticed as well. Two memorable moments are when Doomsday enters by jumping off the roof and then lands in a cloud of dust, then somehow just slides in front of Batman. That just looked off to me. How do you jump off something and land vertically and then just slide forward. Even if you argue that, fine ,Doomsday just propelled himself after landing with his super strength in one slide or ran or whatever, it should have been visible on screen. And then they did the same with Aquaman surfing on that parademon, going vertically through a building and then just sliding straight forward quite some distance to walk away in style. Just.. how?? lol I always wondered who in charge saw that and thought, "yeah, that's seems about right... that's how gravity works."
Roger Kincaid "This" is one of the reasons? He gave multiple reasons so which one do you mean? I feel like you just commented before watching.
babbisp1 - The video details exclusively on the action sequences in the films.
lol sorry but the MCU's fight scenes really aren't that good
Seeing a lot of people commenting about DC not needing to be funny/Marvel is too funny and that's what makes DCEU better. To that I say, you missed the point. At no point did he says DC should be funny. What he said was, Aquaman yelling "yeah" does not add a moment of audience engagement in that lull. In fact, it kills it because it adds nothing to the scene or the character and further deflates a moment of lull in the action following its peak. It's supposed to be sort of funny/kind of cool. Most DCEU pause dialogue is supposed to be for "that's cool" bait so the audience is engaged, but it rarely if ever manages it because the writing is comparatively poor for what it's trying to do. Marvel movies are funny, which means Marvel can easily and cheaply fill those moments with humour. DCEU movies should be filled with heart and humanity, those moments should be filled with characters deeply connecting, sharing a moment or at least giving themselves some structure for the fight between action peaks. That's a lot harder but a lot less cheap emotionally and requires quality writing to deliver in a way the audience actually connects to them. Instead they waste those moments on lines that make you lose your connection to those characters because instead of being humans with feelings, they are bland badasses with superpowers which, while partly true, shouldn't be the way DC handles them when the complexity of emotion and character of it's heroes is arguably DCs strongest card!
DCEU shouldn't be Marvel, it should just learn from it's own mistakes better. A lot of that comes from the writing, which should be coming from a different person than the director imo. That way there is a person trying to be cool and shooting the scene for that goal and another person trying to build the characters and writing the scene for that goal, instead of one person juggling both and inevitably giving up on one of them to the detriment of the film as a whole. Action scenes don't just sit on their own structure/camera/music, they sit on the writing that gets them there, through them and past them. A terrible action scene that has characters you connect to during it and a goals that you are invested in can become great on that merit alone (the boring end fight of Guardians 1 is heavily improved by the fact we care about groot/rocket/quill et al that we even forgive the boring villain) and yet a pretty good action scene can suck because we care for no one in it or it's goals (any given action scene in Thor 2 comes to mind).
Ok rant over.
fornaxian you are right
fornaxian Bravo
Well said (written😜).
I thought this was well-written. If I was as good as you at articulating my thoughts, I'd explain why I'm impressed 😅.
Mango Body Butter well thanks, I'm flattered :)
I love DC comics and Marvel comics both!! It kills me that DC is having a slow start, but they're getting there!!
Legend has it that Batman is still punching Superman in the face.
Great video but ironically I think you contradicted yourself in the last clip. That scene is pretty devoid of sensible and effective character moments, except for that one instant when Bruce realizes Superman isn't taking the punches anymore, and they have that quick stare-down. It was pretty funny, and it actually said something about how Superman handles a situation like that--calmly, and with a little bit of humor
yeah that pretty much directly contradicted his entire point.
is it just me, or are you talking(rapping) on the beat at the outro 7:02 ???
LOL now it sounds exactly like a rap, thanks for that! :/
Nah, that beat is just on point. XD
Brilliant. Love your work Nerdwriter1! Everything is well thought out, your narration is calm and calculated, and ultimately your points come across very clearly.
That point about character moments is super important. I always use the example of Men in Black vs R.I.P.D with Ryan Reynolds and Jeff Bridges. They are pretty much EXACTLY the same movie, and yet one is a universally adored classic while the other has mostly disappeared into obscurity. Why? MIB is heavily peppered with witty, hilarious one liners and banter that both keep us entertained and allow us to bond more personally with the characters themselves. We invest emotionally, all whilst laughing our soda out our noses.
Marvel has mastered this. DC hasn't figured it out yet.
This, btw, is also the difference between the first Mummy movie with Brendan Fraser and the third one, and the difference between the first three Die Hard movies (exciting AND kind of hilarious) and that pathetic fourth one (He screamed "I'm on vacation!" like four different times. It wasn't even that funny the first time, and it was nearly the funniest part.)
Point being, if you're trying to put together an action flick, invest some $ into a few comedy writers! Comedians have a high EQ. They don't just make us laugh, they make us feel, make us connect.
So you think every action movies should have some comedy in it? Wow...
Go watch Mad Max: Fury Road, or The Raid, or the first Terminator movie. Those are some great action movie without some needless humour in it
@@denisherlock3023 Is that really what you got out of this comment.
@@lumpz7043 _Point being, if you're trying to put together an action flick, invest some $ into a few comedy writers!_
yep, that's pretty much the point of that long useless comment
@@denisherlock3023 No the point is how humor can make seemingly dry and impersonal movies charismatic and enjoyable. Because "Comedians ... don't just make us laugh, they make us feel, make us connect." That last sentence that you probably ignored was the entire point of the "long useless comment"
And your comment "So you think every action movies should have some comedy in it? Wow..." is just an attempt at dumbing down and misinterpreting what was clearly stated.
@@lumpz7043 dude you clearly lost the plot here. this video clearly talking about how to make a better action scene. and this guy suddenly talking about comedy
do you really think all action movies really need to have some humour in it?
The mashup of pause-lines in the DCU was cringeworthy 😬 great video! really broke down the problems quickly and clearly.
I know right.I especially love it when Nerdwriter take things out of context,cherry picked and heavily edited scenes to strengthen his arguments and pass himself as an intellectual.AMAZING ;)
He cherry picked all those clips and took them out of context.
Procrastinator Some of them weren't even during fights.
Procrastinator I don't know what's wrong with those lines + in every fight sequences of Superman he showed, Supes used his powers (speed, laser beams, super strentgh not only to punch) !!! But of course he only showed the part when Superman is having a hand-to-hand fight, what a great analyst 😔
I was actually really surprised to see him making this kind of video. The only comment I can make is exactly the same as you. Although I've never felt like this for his previous videos as I generally really enjoy them, I can't help myself thinking ''how can this guy make a sloppy video like this?''.
The key mistake being done here is generalizing DCEU action scenes or MCU action scenes. You have to look this kind of subject individually, movie by movie. I hated Justice League, so I'm not even going there. It's true that there're wonderful action scenes in ''some'' of marvel movies a specially Infinity War, but there are also great action scenes in DCEU, you can't feel same about both because if DCEU is like an kid, MCU is an adult right now. Even with this fact it's wrong to compare. That being said the fight between Supe and Batman that he's mocking was actually great.
IMO this can also be seen in the fight on Titan in Infinity War. It's the first time seeing Thanos as the big antagonist and we're on a new alien planet, yet all the weight is felt by Thanos, not not his actions on the surroundings, like in Justice League but but on the characters themselves. Stark is basically stripped of being Iron Man, Strange is battered around, and Spidey and the Guardians are just trying to not get squashed. We see the pain and physical strength of Thanos in the charters by the toll it takes on them. JL was just like bashing action figures together with zero repercussions in the characters themselves at the end.
Here is a video essay on Understanding Comics - czcams.com/video/CeivXMHa3J0/video.html
Would love to know your thought on the differences between 2017 Justice League and 2021 Zack Snyder's Justice League
Bloted shitshow that destroys the universe. Its funny actually, synderoids are asking fpr the sequel to snyder cut, when in reality joss being an og writer, fixed that stupid movie as much as he can. Both are shit, but you can only do sequel to joss cut, not the snyder cut.
the main problem with superhero movies action scenes in general is that the fighting itself has no significance and the barometer with which one hero or villain to the next has no comparison. so when thor for example hits another person with his hammer in the face that would surely break that other perons jaw if not kill that person outright. but in a fight sequence it has the impact as if he gave someone a slight shove. they fall down for a few seconds, shake it off, then stand right back up. so the actual fighting holds no weight and only ends when something such as a definitive weapon or power move (i.e. a "magic sword" is introduced) that once and for all would go through the other persons heart or head, etc. etc.
And yet not even a mention of the warehouse fight in BvS. I get it. It would ruin the whole video.
That ending was hilarious had me dying didn't see that coming 🤣🤣😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 then when the credits came up I started dying more😃
Dc action is awesome. Example : warehouse fight
As much as I agree with the overall argument of this video, I'm disappointed he didn't bring up any of the good DC fights like when Batman beats up a room full of thugs in BvsS or the Manta fight in Aquaman. Only pointing out bad fights in the DC universe and not making any reference to the good ones really make him seem biased. Especially when Marvel only uses Karate and DC uses a bunch of different martial arts, even made up ones. DC does have a way to go, I agree with that, but a lot of the fight scenes are better than the majority of fight scenes in Marvel and no mention of them was made. A robust argument incorporates valid counter-arguments and crushes them. This video ignored them altogether.
Well, the title was the problem with DC action scenes. If someone is trying to make a point, a counter-argument would be counter intuitive. There's no need to go off topic. The point here wasn't a comprehensive analysis of all DC action scenes. The point was the ones that fail and why.
Plus, it's not just about fight scenes. It's about action scenes as a whole. DC does not do action better than Marvel. And that's coming from a 20+ year fan of Superman and DC. The DCAU is the pinnacle of comic book cartoons. But the DCEU can't even hold a candle to it.
@@preachcaleb I personally disagree. Although I can agree you're right about the general idea of this video. I personally think DC has better action than Marvel. Just don't include Batman v. Superman or Josstice league and DC pretty much beats Marvel.
Bad action examples in Marvel are:
Black Panther:
it felt rather boring and repetitive. (Except the scene with the car chase and the spear being thrown.)
Captain Marvel:
For character who has been considered op constantly before she even came out, she felt underwhelming.
Reasoning:
#1
Marvel uses the same hand'to-hand combat techniques (which gets boring) while DC incorporates more unique and appealing styles of combat.
2#
DC uses more unique camera shots to make a scene more appealing/dramatic. For ex. Wonder Woman (her fight with the soliders) and Aqua man (mainly the entire movie but specifically the fight during Greece)
3#
DC's music feels better for the scene (this is more subjective but my own personal reason)
I would add more but I would need to rewatch some of the other movies to point out and explain more. I also don't want to flood the replies with just one comment lmao. Feel free to reply if you do see this. Just don't be rude about it.
As a huge fan of DC Comics I can't agree more.
then you are just as wrong as he is
Your welcome to think that, but as someone who has been reading DC comics for years and has grown up with these characters, I hate to see their potential wasted on these movies, actors and directors who show blatant disregard for the source material and just don't understand what the DC universe is about. I believe with the right team behind them the DC cinematic universe could become something amazing and unique from what marvel has going on, they just gotta start fresh and get someone who understands the material and can adapt it to helm the ship like Kevin Feige does for marvel.
4:32 and we know thats nerd writer level editing
love your channel
I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THAT
Bravo 👏🏻
Yes! THANK YOU! -Superman has a laundry list of powers! I'm always screaming at the screen like an old person for him to use his stupid ice breath and stop his opponent but noooooo. He's boiled down to a flying sunflower in blue spandex.
Well it finally happened
''All right''
Aquaman, 2017.
"O-Right" - Aquaman, 2017.
I love your videos man! great editing as always! Here's a few of my thoughts. You mentioned that Marvel slips character moments into the cracks of the set pieces. I agree, and it makes for some very charming moments. However, this almost always takes away from the drama of the situation. I think The Avengers was a perfect balance, but lately it feels as though Marvel sacrifices drama and tension for the sake of a laugh or character moment. For example, when Thor meets Hella in Ragnarok after she has killed many, including the Warriors three, all he can say is... "You're just, the worst." That immediately took away any tension there was in the scene. Same for "Depends on how hard you hit me." Why should I give a crap about the scene if its clear the characters have no intention of hurting each other? DC for all its faults, knows that humor, in the wrong place at the wrong time will kill any drama in a action set piece. As to the physics, its would be great to see Superman use his power set more for sure! In Man of Steel, its understandable because he is still learning about his powers. By the time Justice League rolls around, he's using super speed, super hearing, super breath, and laser vision. To me it feels like your argument is less about the action than it is about the characters. Like you, I grew up reading DC comics, and still do. And I think that DCEU embodies my childhood heroes quite well.
amazingmagicman1 I think the “depends on how hard you hit me” line was the point for Nat and Clint. They’re not strictly “super” like the rest of the team. They’re two spies mixed in with a bunch of colorful over-the-top-characters. The Sokovia accords don’t affect them the same way as it would for Captain America, the living flag, or Ironman, a billionaire in gilded armor. As spies, being where laws say they shouldn’t be is part of the job description. There is no reason for them to fight as hard as everyone else. In some ways, they know they shouldn’t even be there, but they have to show up because their respect team leader picked them. And remember, Scarlet Witch kinda scolds Clint for holding back after zapping Widow.
I think the “you are the worst” line was kind of a big moment for Thor. In the movies, he’s known for flying off the handle over just about anything. He’s a hot headed fighting genius, so gifted that he’s rarely met his actual match (according to himself) and rarely needs to actually think things through. So in this moment with Hela, where his home is on fire, his friends are dead and he just escaped a life of enslavement. If this was the old Thor, the one that would need a hammer to do anything, he would scream and shout and swear vengeance. But at this point, he’s not that same Thor from before, having been humbled and humiliated by people he should have been able to beat easily. So instead of flying into a rage and lunging at Hela, he articulates his feelings, i.e. “You are, the worst” and keeps his calm head.
That’s my interpretation though. Sorry for the short novel.
As a DC fan, I agree. I remember watching an animated movie featuring Deadpool - his lines during the fight scene when he was shooting was literally, " Die, Die! Die, Die, Die, Die! Die!"
I just wanna mention the BvS scene where batman breaks into that wearhouse to save Martha Kent, it was frickin awesome