Do Celebrities Hate Their Fans? (Doja Cat, Frank Ocean)
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Get an exclusive @Surfshark deal! Enter code RORAMDIN for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deaks/roramdin.
Let's talk Doja Cat, Frank Ocean, Big Thief, standom, and celebrity culture. Plus five to ten minutes of unrelated jokes that commenters will complain about lolllllllz! Let me put buzzwords in here for the algorithm. Celebrity, drama, cornball, drama, Squid game.
Support Alexis!
Venmo- lexkay
Cashapp- $akaymy
paypal.me/akm4338
ko-fi.com/alexismyles
/ alexiskmyles
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BM3XTTQX
Support me on Patreon!
patreon.com/roramdin
All social medias are @roramdin :-) - Zábava
Get an exclusive deal! Enter code RORAMDIN for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deaks/roramdin.
Great video, well said and something really cute about the FOR! at the end lol
what mainly bothers me about Doja is her audacity to block all alleged victims of her current boyfriend. I think that's what bothers me and a lot of other people. Like yeah, all the shit she said is weird and she can say what she wants... But it's kinda messed up that people chock up the whole situation to "Her fans are so entitled and you guys need to get over this parasocial relationship."
Yes! Thank you! That’s how this whole thing started too. Doja was upset about her fans calling her out, then it spiraled into what we’re seeing now.
Don’t know anything about Doja but I wonder if she’s in an abusive relationship. Not to excuse her, but if she’s in a relationship with a man who has abused girls in the past, he could also abuse her.
thanks for saying this, i thought it was just about the "i don't love my fans" thing, which i thought was an admirable thing of her to say and was confused why she's being hated for it
That's so fuckt up. The action itself says so much. Gurl doesn't even wanna see a tweet or whatever??? Pettyyyyyyyyy selfishhhhhhhh
@@aperson2140if that's the case it's even worse she would ignore other victims in her current place and think she's different lol
i once threw up on the floor of a spirit halloween in 2016, immediately left, and never told anyone. this added nothing of substance to this conversation i just really needed to get it off of my chest. great video as always!!! 👍
This is a safe space so i pinned this
My dad's ex wife pissed herself in a "the bay" all over the floor. In my shock I attempted to get a staff member so I could find a mop, but she grabbed my arm stating "this is their job" and dragged me outta there. I'm glad she's not with my dad anymore. Thank you for creating the space for me to share that lol.
me too dawg, me too (not really)
i used to eat the cicada shells when i was a kid. not like the actual bugs but like the shedded shells. just om. nom nom. right? i ate it to scare the other playground kids
Woah
Sometimes dinner is a 1 minute old Ro video
Erm... the girl dinner trend just evolved ☝️
real
Autistic meaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllautisticmeal
bon appetit
@@nailinthefashionthank you for this, i just sang this and i may turn it into an actual short song
pay attention fully to the well-crafted video ro has created: ❌
stare at blurry clarinet:
✅
1) i'm learning clarinet 2) i also keep staring at it why does it look so cool in this video
Phallic music instruments making me wanna blow stuff: hey boy... you know that I really want you right.. this could so easy.... but I'm really hard.. to learn......
it looks like some kinda fucked up weapon back there
I thought it was an oboe lmao
@@roramdin omg how is it??? I've been wanting to learn for awhile but just can't afford to get one, clarinets sound so friggin mellow and beautiful 🥲🤘🏻
I think the most important question is Does Ro Ramdin hate her fans? - the answer is yes, we’re like the spirits of dead children all killed in gruesome accidents who follow her around and whisper “do it fart?” in her ear.
Do it clap, is it wet, does it produce a thick scentless fog,
Is this you Ro
I am not a bit fan of any musicians but I find it super manipulative how Doja asked for fans to name themselves and played the whole music mama role and is now maligning people. I agree people shouldn’t have parasocial relationships with celebrities, but celebrities got where they are thru being exploited and exploiting others
I find it funny, because she asked what do they want to be called, they answered. i’m a specific way she didn’t name them. she asked a question and they named themselves lol. i think doha is going thru stuff, i’m not a fan just collecting info online about this.. so i guess maybe i don’t get it fully. Her saying she can’t love who she doesn’t know is also in a literal sense true.. i think from this comment section the boyfriend stuff is getting to her for a reason. I also think as an artist that said she just wants to create and cried when she got recognition in a literal sense while it’s due to fans, i get why she says she doesn’t want parasocial stuff and criticizes her music it’s about creation and less about shaming fans lol. Ofc when it comes to telling people to get a job that’s a whole can of worms in itself.. but again separate from the not untrue statement that she didn’t name them, she made a poll where they voted.. It wasn’t her naming.. it’s hairsplitting but eh, i guess i’m just intrigued to hairsplit levels when it comes to drama that i don’t have much emotional parasocial involvement in .. :D
@@Freddy3Jersem Yes but she has several tweets engaging with the fandom name, specially when a song drops, thats manipulation, also her name is doja CAT and she is mad at the Kittens thing? The same person that went on a red carpet dressed as a Cat and only made cat noises on the interviews? seems a lil bit hypocritical too
@@carolitoffanaif she’s tired of the fame/her fans I imagine anything they do would annoy her, even if it makes logical sense. When you hate people literally everything they do is annoying.
really really really refreshing perspective on this from what I've seen others saying online. Calling the relationship fans expect from artists as "transactional" so perfectly reflects what unnerved me about this situation and how recent pop culture makes it seem like the audience gets to decide how an artist acts or what they create (ie with ongoing tv shows or book series that change plot lines based on what the popular opinion is)
Absolutely agree. So many musical artists in the past only had Rolling Stone interviews for people to feed off of. Not the social media over-sharing we all do every day now. Bottom line, they are messy humans like the rest of us.
A fanbase can't control the artist, but the artist can't control the fanbase either. You're not entitled to positive reception when you put yourself out there and Doja is going out of her way to engage with her critics instead of logging off and just doing what she's gonna do.
@@SuperRat420they do not all do it right
i was actively dying from a plethora of diseases and just as they were about to pronounce me dead ro ramdin uploaded and i rose from my coffin like the second coming of jesus christ
adding this to the precision medicine databases
I really enjoy how this topic was covered, but I do feel like an important contributing factor to Doja cat losing it on social media w her fans was also the controversy around her boyfriend when his identity leaked (allegations of sexual manipulation against both adults and minors), because when fans asked her to make a statement she started to go off on people and then I feel like that opened a whole can of worms. She doubled down on her relationship and came out swinging in the comment sections w her fans. I think that the points in this video were made extremely well, but that is an important bit of context to her circumstances. I’m not quite sure where I fall on it, but a lot of people right now believe that she’s sticking her neck out for an abuser which is generating a lot of resentment towards her on top of her history of being “rude” with fans.
That's still fan entitlement tho...
She doesn't have to answer if she doesn't Wanna..
@@miss1of2she also doesn't have to go out of her way to engage with the discourse either. You know what's entitled? Making millions of your fanbase and expecting them to ONLY give you positive sentiments even when you're doing objectively controversial things.
She's free to log off and live her life and just release music and promote like a regular artist and I'd honestly encourage her to do so. But she wants to constantly engage in this weird parasocial thing because she needs the attention (she literally made a song about it), but gets upset when they hold her the slightest bit accountable for making bad choices. (and yes, dating a racist predator when you're a public figure is as close to being objectively bad decision making as possible)
You put yourself out there, you open yourself to public chatter. Either take it in stride or step back. Because you don't get to enrich yourself on selling the cake and eat it too
@@miss1of2But she makes a choice to be antagonistic and then complains when said antagonism is “reported” on (for lack of a better phrase). it is ironic that she’s chastising people for being “on their phones” when she doesn’t seem to have the greatest boundaries with her own. she also opens up a lot on the internet to millions of strangers and is surprised that parasocial bonds have been made. it sounds like she just isn’t made to be famous tbh.
@@ruminationstation4200she's definitely a narcissistic person
@@ruminationstation4200 I still think it really entitled to think you can "hold someone accountable" on the internet because you like their music.
Stop buying her shit if you disagree with her so bad! But to comment on her personal life and think you are owed an explanation when you don't agree is entitled as fuck.
I was really fortunate to attend the latest Florence+The Machine concert in my city. For this tour (Dance Fever) she started singing Never Let Me Go again, after about a decade of refusing to perform it on tour. She had this whole speech about how the song was written during one of the darkest times in her life, but how her relationship to touring and the song has changed over the last few years and she's in a place where she's ready to perform it again. Even after what was a very gracious and emotionally vulnerable explanation of how the song used to remind her of a time when she was clearly suicidal, I could hear "fans" complaining about her not performing it in so long after the show finished, saying "once you put a song out there it doesn't belong to you anymore". I found it kind of heartbreaking how entitled people can be: supposedly we were all there paying hundreds of dollars to see her live because her art had moved us so deeply; yet there's this sense of ownership to this person who created the art, that you can demand to not only listen to the dozens and dozens of recordings of her performing this song in the past, but feel justified expecting the person to relive their most self-destructive moments creativity over and over again on stage for your entertainment. It's like there's this devastating break somewhere in the emotional connection between the audience and artists where you can want the art that can only be made by a complex, multifaceted human being who can have a difficult relationship with their own work, but you can't allow the creator to remain a complex, multifaceted human being with a complex relationship to the work once you've got it. Obviously, any individual fan with this empathy failure towards the artist can't really embody any kind of control over that artist, but once so many people en masse decide to agree on making demands of a stranger it becomes an oddly abusive dynamic imo.
i remember the singer from mewithoutYou responding to crowd members asking for "Bullet to Binary" from their earliest album. if you dont know anything about mwY, their music changed A LOT, from a sort of post-hardcore to straight indie. And the songs are all deeply personal. That particular song was very clearly a post relationship song full of anger. He responded to the crowd's request by saying that a song like that takes so much out of you, and as time goes by you realize how misguided those feelings were, that hate dissapates and self reflection takes hold. And suddenly you can no longer sing those words because they arent simply false, but actively harmful. I always felt that was a really powerful stance and I think most fans at the time were proud that he was able to grow into a happier person
this honestly might be my favorite lighting in one of your videos yet, looks totally gorgeous
Ty!!
looking a little like when i dissociate but in a good way
What really upsets me is that I was long time fan on Doja. I enjoyed most of the music she put out. It made me feel so empowered and helped me through a lot of tough times. Now for her to come out and say that Hot Pink and Planet Her were cash grabs and that we "fell for it" is hurtful. When I saw that tweet, it made me feel stupid for even liking the music in the first place. If she felt it wasn't up to her standards, I felt she could have simply said that instead of going straight to lashing out. I never referred to myself as a "kitten", but there was a tweet (which is now deleted) where she posted a poll asking her fans what they wanted to be called. There were two options "Kittens" or "Cubs". Kittens won the poll, and thus fans started referring to themselves as "Kittens". That's why a lot of her fans were upset with her when she tweeted what she did. She just suddenly went back on the decision and started lashing out out of nowhere. That being said, I don't think Doja is completely in the wrong here, but there are better ways to go about expressing those feelings.
It wasn't out of nowhere. The person she was responding to was harassing her about her dating life. Regardless of how people feel about him, they should not have been harassing her. Withdraw support in silence. Going on harassment campaigns and DEMANDING an artist gives explanations about private stuff is a bit controlling. Some fans need to learn when to take a back seat. That is why she brought up the "Kitten" word because one of the harassers implied the kittens wanted an explanation and don't like who she is dating. So her response was that her real fans don't call themselves kittens. I agree she could have done it more tactfully, though.
@@sorafanchickthe person she’s dating is a pedophile. she is actively silencing his victims and deflecting.
Ro once again asking the bold question “what if CZcams had empathy?”, you’ve almost convinced me people are complicated and flawed above malicious and evil. Nice try!
Wait i've changed my mind i think people might be supervillains :///
If you're looking for more nuance and empathy in your video essays, I deeply recommend Kadija Mbowe!
for me its not just that doja said her pop was mediocre, like thats her opinion honestly, it doesnt change how i feel abt her music. what botheres me is how she straight up insulted her fans. in that same tweet where she said her pop was mediocre she said "ill be on a yacht - out touching grass, while yall weep for mediocre pop" something like that. which is just so passive agressive for no reason. and she went on to reply to her fans and fight them basically, saying they need to get off the internet and rethink their whole life because they were using a fandom name THAT DOJA SUGGESTED HERSELF. shes so insulting to her fans. again, i can respect her not vibing with her older music, i really do understand that, but she shouldnt have dragged her fans for liking it. she really shot herself in the foot imo.
also this isnt even to mention her bf atm, its disgusting that shes supporting him and its the last straw for me. i genuinely cant enjoy her music anymore because all i can think abt is how shitty of a person she is
Exactly I just don’t think how Dojas has been treating fans, completely insulting them, compares to Frank ocean doing a lacklustre performance.
Nobody seems to talk abt how she literally suggested the fandom name her self via poll. And just straight up insults them for it as if it wasn’t her idea.
I wonder if this will actually hurt her finances. Considering she's a high school drop out that must hurt
And you sitting here with hurt feelings is gonna make her suddenly start to give a fuck? Or you could just stop supporting someone you clearly have an issue with and move on with life. Like do anything else.
I think this reaction came after people were demanding she make a public statement about her boyfriend. People were literally harassing her. Why didn't people just decide not to support her and move on? Not to say, she was right to disrespect her fans like that, but her fans didn't go about it the right way, either.
The current state of online interactions that we celebrities have to put up with is why i simply time travel to the 1950s and perform with my very famous beach party band instead of tweeting and streaming
You can log off, and do that anyway without being dead. Fun!
i love how she writes like 5 intros the the same video and decides to do them all
Will wood is another instance of this, I think. His song I/Me/Myself blew up on TikTok a couple years back, and somewhat recently on a podcast he does with his friend he said that going viral was never something he wanted to happen. During that discussion he said something to the effect of "I think it's every artist's dream to get just successful enough to have enough money to live comfortably, and beyond that it sucks" that I think of often when discussions of artist/fan base relations arise. I think that online fandom culture online may ve honestly one of the worst things to happen to the music, and the arts in general
I'm honestly very surprised and excited that you talked about that Big Thief situation! it felt like a small blip in the music community that wouldn't get that much attention overall, but I think it bothered me extra because that whole thing happened the day after I saw them perform for the first time. it was so fucking disheartening to see the entitlement that their own fans expressed. like I don't use Spotify but I hear that you can upload your own local files, so just do that with the live version if you want??? I can't imagine thinking that an artist actually owes it to me to make music the exact way that I want lmao.
it's always a lose-lose situation when fans get attached to an acoustic/live demo because in all likelihood, the artist imagined the song with completely different production. fans who listened to the demo and memorized every single little vocal inflection and background noise are always disappointed when the released version doesn't match up with the version they became attached to. anyway, I'm really happy that you included that!!
Some of us geriatric millennials remember Fiona Apple's honest and thoughtful rant while accepting an award. She was turned into a one-note punchline of "look at this dumb, this celebrity being ungrateful for her fame by telling us not to care so much about celebrities." Here's manifesting progress for the current crop of music fans (including industry gatekeepers and other olds) will do better with today's musicians.
great comparison
While I agree with your overarching point, the main issue with Doja is definitely the fact that she's dating a white supremacist and is choosing to bitch at her fans instead of addressing that
The increasing amount of entitlement that fans feel about music/artists they listen to has gotten really out of hand… I think this is also related to the terrible concert etiquette vids that have been circulating this year
Apparently humanity can't handle unregulated internet use but hey, I'm not a dictator, so I can't save the country from itself! Ain't it fun 🕺🏾🎶
I agree. People are very on edge and anxious and taking it out on celebrities. Social media made this so much worse bc people genuinely feel entitled to celebs bc of it
I am extremely ill today and I think the good old Ro Ramdin rapid-paced scathing humor is exactly what I need as a lifeline to keep me hanging on to reality through the intense physical discomfort, thank Hastur
Ugh, twinsies. Don’t forget to drink your fluids🤧
@@matchagreeen Thank you, I need the reminder ToT
Keep up the good work being alive, we shall persevere, and we shall recover!
Smh why can’t Doja Cat snap on her fans in peace?! God FORBID women have hobbies🙄🙄
Literally!
But to insult her fans with a name she chose, even if she was a male artist it would've been distasful
Ah yes, why can't she date her alleged racist predator bf in peace as well 😔😔❤
Look I’m just saying, I work with people all day, and I actively dislike probably at least half of the people I interact with on a daily basis. HOWEVER, my job depends on those people thinking that our interaction is the highlight of my day- Doja’s kind of in a similar situation, but she doesn’t even need to pretend to love her fans. She just needs to not be so obvious about the utter contempt she feels for them.
Also mental illness is a bitch and I hope everyone struggling or everyone who has struggled knows that there are people that care about them. You don’t need to go through it alone.
On the Doja Cat thing, I feel that section could have been handled better. I’m not a Doja Cat fan but on the “who cares”, I think it’s a bit of a cynical take to ask people why they care about art and artists. Doja Cat will say she loves her fans in a tweet and then belittle them for saying they love her. She’ll hold a poll on a fandom name and then go on a tangent about how that’s cringe. From what I’ve seen, people are upset because she’s inconsistent. She’s says one thing and then does something else for whatever reason that I don’t really care to know about. She has a very hot and cold approach to interactions with her art and the fans who consume it and I’m not even a fan or an anti and I’m sick of hearing about some celebrity goading fans and then getting on a high horse when they “fall for it”.
omg yayyyy a surf shark ad! time to do a literary analysis on how it adds to the subtext of the video and what youtubers ads say about th-
Wait why is the shark surfing is there a lore reason
LMAO ive been waiting for years to hear someone make the glowpt2 release date joke...the microphones fans rise up
i'm not going to say i belive doja deserves to be harassed by her fans into loving them or admitting some type of relationship to them other than business - because that's what it is: a BUSINESS relationship. i just also feel like she had gone to extraordinary lengths to appear genuine and intertwine her relationship to online meme culture and i can see how someone less developed wouls start to grow a parasocial tie to someone who is "just like them, but with money and a job". this doesn't INVITE harassment, it's just explainable.
she's also just been straight up weird with her past and current actions relating to racism and inappropriate topics, and as someone else said i 100% believe fans are allowed to openly question the morals of the people they are choosing to support with their very limited time and money, which are the only currency we can give to people we're fans of.
An artist I really like, Will Wood, has talked about this exact things in a lot of interviews and how it effected his already present mental health issues. He was pretty obscure when I found him but gained a pretty big surge in popularity after his third album and had really complicated feelings about it, and has since gone on an indefinite hiatus. I don't feel I can speak on his behalf and go into detail but if you find this interesting I would recommend checking out some interviews he's done
i was waiting for the will wood comment
i dont know much about behind the scenes things, but this was the point of "in case i make it" right?
I’d like to add that if you’re interested, listen to his song “sex, drugs, rock ‘n’ roll”. it lays his feelings about it out very well.
on the contrary, will wood has also highlighted that even with the worst of his fans he doesnt like the whole "parasocial relationships are bad" sentiment and that its not bad to feel connection to a creator and that he wants his fans to connect
i love will wood bro his music slaps ass. well wishes to him and his future endeavors
i'm using the first minute of this video as my tight five at the local open mic
this came out the second i needed my entertainment for my meal thanks lol
Wow we’re getting a lot of Ro! Loving this
Just a little fun little thinkpiece as a treat
The two wolves inside of me are there are only 5 minutes for me to get ready before I'm supposed to meet my date for dinner and Ro just posted a 20 minute long video 😢
i dont know... personally i kinda hate it when people build a career that leads to fame and then hate being famous. if your dream is to perform on stage and have your face plastered on billboards, im sorry to say but that simply comes with a bunch of drawbacks as well. im not excusing bad things fans do to their idols like stalking but like, if you cant handle ppl being a bit delusional and overfamiliar with you i dont think you shouldve tried to become famous in the first place. nobody forced you to become rich and famous (unless somebody did in which case i understand the resentment very well and this isnt about them) so like, suck it up or fade from the public zeitgeist if you find it so unbearable.
idk it always seems like famous ppl only ever want the positives of being famous and never consider what itll cost them. things have consequences.
i...don't think "being harassed by hordes of people and living in fear" is an ok outcome for anyone whose day job isn't murder
idk man I'm trying to get into animation and I've heard so much about very introverted artists just doing their job, having their contact info tracked down and deluged with unwanted messages from fans who see them only as an extension of the art they're rabid over
Even with the surrounding justifications, this sentiment of "they shouldn't have put themselves out there if they didn't want to be abused" kinda smacks of a shitty underlying mindset
some people just want to work. Imagine that you became a librarian because you love books, but for some reason librarians were idolized. So in order to do the work you love, you have to tour 9-10 months out of the year and give interviews and hire bodyguards to protect you when you go out, and all this stuff ends up being a bigger part of the job than the books ever could be. That would be frustrating! I think it's okay to want to make music or art or video games or films and NOT be stalked by obsessive people.
I like your points and I do think they come with a lot of thought and nuance, but i feel like this leaves out a lot of context on doja's situation specifically. its not just her lashing out, its her questionable behavior in regards to her boyfriend and allegations against him, as well as doja's inability to step away from the internet despite telling her fans to delete their accounts. like, i get where youre coming from when it comes to letting celebrities be people, which is why i dont think its unfair to criticize doja's actions and question why she feels the need to say these things online instead of stepping away from the internet & public view for a little bit.
I personally think that Doja's situation is completely different to Frank's, he just always seemed very unprofessional, the way Blonded came out with him basically scamming his former record label, than the Coachella, it all sounds like a talented but immature person, and I'm pretty sure if a female artist did what he had done she would be shunned from the industry. Frank never had an online presence, he has always been a "mysterious" person, is even a joke among the fans that he drops an album and disappears for 7 years, and it's true, Frank is one of the very few artist that can say his art speaks for himself, I don't think he hates his fans, but I do think he hates being famous. He never tours, he never do tv appearances, he barely makes any concerts, so I think it's not the same as Doja who is a chronically online person that has build her career online, even before she was famous for her songs, she was famous for being a troll on the internet, she has a very questionable past on live chats and now she's blocking victims of an abuser. You don't need to love your fans but you need to respect them, also let's be real, most of these people are kids, she's beefing with kids/teens online and telling them to touch grass? really? If SHE went out and touched grass none of this would be happening.
Dog fuck the label frank scamming them is the best thing he's ever done
@@ch6rpiefacts. Apparently he is awful to work with though, a close family friend of mine in the book printing industry was originally going to do the blonde coffee table books and he refused to pay them
Doja ain’t wrong on principle but the why is the issue . She said doesn’t love her fans and is probably jaded on fame because currently she can’t date crappy men in peace , not because parsociality is objectionable to her.
I think Doja lashing out at fans would be admirable if it wasn’t coupled with the resurfacing of the fact she obviously loves being in community with neo Nazis and partaking in general anti blackness . She’s not just a garden variety racist either because to be fair she’s only exhibited anti black behavior and as others have just picked up on coincidental quirky pattern of her keeping racists proximal to her previously.
People being shocked Doja Cat is sheisty and dating a known rapist and groomer as if those tiny chat videos , her working with dr Luke, her anti blackness in behavior , lyrics and dating history weren’t proof enough she is a weirdo at minimum.
I also think the other instances are vastly different and more poignant examples of negative impacts of parasocial relationships and warrant the analysis put forward.
Man imagine if Madonna and Charlize Theron had social media in their heyday. We'd have warned them about Sean Penn on time.
@@falconeshield absolutely! I always think of what it would’ve been like during certain celebrity eras , scandals and historical events . Another one I think of often is how black Twitter may have processed James Brown’s bizarre behavior (specifically that 1988 scenario in its totality)
The Big Thief stuff was wild. I just wonder if these same fans would shit over a concert performance that sounded different. Every performance is unique
alanis morrisette with her song "you oughta know" basically said the same thing, she hated her old music, audience, and management and she was trying to separate herself from it
i wonder what the difference between these two people are 🤔
Did you mix up songs? "You Oughta Know" is a break up song about not being able to move on while your ex-lover can, not about fans and management.
Your writing blows me away every time I watch one of your videos. I'm equally envious of your talent and grateful youve chosen to share it with us.
Thank you and have a beautiful summer❤
currently in the hospital after having seizures but i never miss a ro upload 😤💪
Idk Ro, i dont think Doja really belongs in this convo, or at least needs significantly more context. I know you addressed missing how this is in reaction to her boyfriend, but i think you may be uninformed about how verbally abusive she gets sometimes, how she seeks out this confrontational dynamics (see also, the neonazi tiny chats stuff), how enmeshed SHE is with her own fanbase, how reactive she is to anything other than praise but how consistently she seeks out fan interactions online (she literally JUST released a song about craving attention even when its not positive)..and most not but least --- she knows how young her fanbase skews. Instead of tempering her reactions accordingly, she makes fun of them for being broke and how rhey need to go help their parents with the house. So she straight up knows she's a grown woman swearing at teenagers online.
She legitimately needs mental help and to log off. People arent experiencing some bizarre parasocial reaction to realize they dont like her as much now that they can see she isnt who they thought she was,
She was alwaya that tiny chat edgelord she claimed shed grown from when she still needed their money and support. And she straight up directly laughed at how she got rich fooling the fans about who she was
I didn't look at the Doja cat name and keep reading your comment and I thought you were about Ariana Grande and I thought that's valid until I saw the last para
The fact that you play clarinet is fitting. No shame, just solidarity
I misread the title and thought it said Billy Ocean and I was thinking that's a bit of a throw back for this channel and now I'm bopping to Love Really Hurts Without You.
ANOTHER VIDEO!!!! we have been so well fed recently. dont spoil us now!! thanks 4 ur hard work and riveting commentary.
great analysis, thanks ro!
a ro ramdin video right after running out of ro content? yippee!!
I already know I could never be a celebrity bc when my number 1 fan (my mom) asks me to sing at parties, I bodyslam her through the kitchen wall like the kool-aid man and start hissing at anyone who dares to perceive me.
Ro still does the best roasts on the internet 🙌
Someone give Ro a comedy special we need to see Ro get the bag 💰
I feel like the recap on frank is very valid especially considering how long it has been since he has performed, though to be fair he has still be releasing rather expensive merchandise over the last six years, which can definitely be seen as offensive to fans who aren’t within the economic situation to be interested in only buying clothing with his name on it. In a similar vein, I feel as though the Doja cat situation is considerably more complicated than just her tweets alone. Her interest in distancing herself from fans and music that she made that isn’t particularly genuine to herself is fully valid from my perspective and she can go about that as she pleases. I do however think that (as many other people have brought up) the way she is handling peoples concerns and comments about her current boyfriend are not very responsible on her part, especially with how within the public eye she is at the moment. I am more concerned not for the feelings of her fans based on what she says to them, as much as I am about the repercussions on people who idolize or deify her.
This video dropped at good time because now i can roll around in field under a red moon while listening to ro
This conversation has been also swirling around in other fandom for a good while, like... I have strong feelings about the way access to creators has completely ruined fandom's ability to behave themselves, their inability to engage with the art rather than engaging with the object of the celebrity creator. A lot of writers I follow express frustration at how their personas become an object in the conversation about their books, how people will come talking to them about their headcanons and demand explanations and elaborations on canon despite the artist not wanting to provide them or wanting to avoid being the old JKR who was just kind of a professional explainer of her own work rather than an abhorrent bigot. Likewise, these super online superfans will also further mess with other people's ability to *engage* in fandom by treating, say, a tweet from a voice actor (a thing that is firmly on the side of "word of god" and creator intent) as canon and yell at anyone who doesn't treat it likewise.
And you know, I'm sure there have always been people in panels who ask weirdly detailed and pushy questions, but that behaviour used to just be called "having poor boundaries" -- whereas social media accessibility is kind of this whole massive money-driven exercise in eroding boundaries and behaviour like that is seen as increasingly normal rather than kind of fucked up at best and actively disruptive of conversations about media at worst. And while I *definitely* have some creators where I wish they'd shut the fuck up, where I wish I'd never have to see them tweet about the comic that ended a whole four years ago, I also understand that there's a monetary incentive to keep attention on you, and the majority of writers, actors and artists *aren't* wealthy enough to just keep surviving on residuals, even before we get to the literal strikes happening about this right now.
I know the golden age where creators were always consistently left alone doesn't exist, and I know there's always been creators with unhealthy relationships to their fanbases -- Eminem didn't invent the stan, he just coined the name that stuck -- but in the age of social media there are too many incentives for creators as... a class? (That doesn't seem right) to further feed the fire because even if they don't personally enjoy attention, they can still benefit from it materially. And me shaking my fist and telling them to hide their power level while interacting with fandom is never gonna work out, either, *because* creators can have such strong emotional ties to their own work.
Likewise, while fandom has always been to some degree a commercial, consumerist identity, it has always been a deeply personal one, too. An artist is not putting any of the feelings I'm feeling at their art into my head, I am generating them on my own and I can do with them what I want. If an artist tells me that the art I strongly engaged with that they made sucks and I'm an idiot, actually -- well, I'm gonna treat that exactly the same way as if a fellow fan of a thing did the same. Sure, fine. But you're not the boss of my feelings, and you're not entitled to telling me what I should do with those feelings. The only thing you're entitled to is having your peace, which I am also entitled to. You don't have to read the fanfic I write or watch the FMVs I make or listen to the playlists I curate. I do that for me.
Celebrity as a concept is hostile to the idea that being a celebrity is a job, and that people who are famous for something creative have to functionally work two jobs. Having a cult of personality is bit like having a farm of fans you gotta tend to. And that relationship is, I think, exploitative on both sides, emotionally for creators and financially (and worse, if the creator has no fucking conscience) for fans. And I don't like the idea that my strong feelings can be turned into capital profit by someone, but that is the reality of being an artist under capitalism. The best I can do, I guess, is refuse to allow celebrities into the spaces where I discuss their art with other fans, and be militant in my application of the death of the author. I still want these people to get paid, I have solidarity with them as a worker under capitalism, but that's it.
we are getting so much ro recently !!! yay !!! new ro video !!!!!!
Thankyou Myles
Thank you Myles
I'm watching this at my pregnant wife's first OBGYN visit. She was involved in a car accident an hour ago, I had to pick her up. I only gave 1 earbud in though.
fremont farmer's market reference WAS appreciated
thank you for trying to broaden peoples views. i feel terrible that big thief had to release a statement especially because i was someone who got pissed when it was released. youre always keeping me in check ro
once again a view of parasocial relationships that ignores just how common, inevitable and human they are and that there are different levels to them. most of them are actually fulfilling and some of them even life-changing (for both parties involved). they're complex just like all relationships. they're transactional just like most relationships. that doesn't mean they're not worth it or that being a stan should be mocked simply for being passionate about something or someone (and for the love of god, everyone knows the meaning of the word "stan" as evolved past the eminem song and the "obsessive" meaning attached that everyone always seems to equate to being a stan). most fans (yes, most) respect their faves and see them as human beings. most respect their boundaries. people just base their opinions on what they see on twitter, where the worst of the worst are brought to the forefront, especially with accounts like popbase and such. if you aren't a part of a specific fandom, you will never get what it is to be a fan of that specific person. you just won't.
i can't help but feel like most influencers talking about this just like to be condescending by reminding everyone that "celebrities don't know you" as if most fans don't know that. it feels mean, it feels like how the media always talks about, specifically, young girls who are part of majority-female fandoms ("obsessive die-hard fans", etc.). all the humanity and beauty of it is ignored or looked over to focus on the negatives (which do exist, but which are already well-known and constantly talked about). all i want is a more nuanced discussion of these things. it doesn't need to be all positive, i don't need people to say these relationships are 100% healthy and perfect, but my god would it hurt to acknowledge that they can be awesome, fulfilling, life-changing, comforting, a way to learn about real-life relationships, about ourselves, about the world around us, about love, heartbreak, trust, i could go on.
also, everyone participates in parasociality. especially on the internet, but not only. it's been a thing for literal decades. and everyone has had both good and bad experiences with parasociality. so why do most people talk about it like they're above it is beyond me :')
anyways, just my opinion. this started as a tiny comment about a specific part of the video and evolved into something that isn't even specific (almost at all) to this video but i wrote so much now that i don't wanna just delete it :') i hope it doesn't come across too mean! i'm sure i'll click more with other videos in the future
I wish I could remember what CZcamsr it was, but they discussed how parasocial connections as a creator are 2 sided. No we don't know each other in real life, but they put themselves out there to be visible hoping we connect with it, and they thrive on the feedback and love how it's enabled them to do what they love. Just because it's not in real life doesn't mean it is not to some degree "real", and they felt that we're too quick to belittle those connection as being pathetic instead of human. (I REALLY wish I could remember who it was so I could go back & rewatch it)
nono ur right
nowadays parasocial has become an internet buzzword for anything creator/fan related and it bothers me a lot. like everyone mentions some kind of "yea its ok but DONT develop parasocial relationships bc they can be very unhealthy!!!" and they gloss over the good parts of it, or see it as an inherent negative. like yeah i guess but i feel like most fans know they aren't really any celebrities' friends and honestly? moderate parasocial relationships are natural, kind of the natural conclusion of liking someone's creations so much you feel like you connect to them. idk why we keep demonizing them when its worst cases generally don't represent most of a fanbase's views. It's fine to acknowledge that even if we rely on each other as fan and artist we don't really know each other and all we're asking is mutual respect.
also is it really that weird to feel a little attached to someone on the internet for example? in the sense of i know i don't know you but i watch you everyday, you bring me comfort and if something bad happened to you i'd feel sad lmao
as long as you know where u stand in the relationship and respect the person's limits
also on the doja topic she's been v petty and kinda rude to her fans on more than one ocassion 🤷♀️ she doesn't know them personally no but it does feel manipulative when she snaps at them for calling her out on sus shit (bf thing etc) and plays the parasocial card
thanks for sharing your thoughts! Ro makes some really good points, but i appreciate that you acknowledge the humanity behind parasocial relationships and that they can be potentially fulfilling, i hadn't really considered that perspective before.
I share your views on this 100%, you explain it perfectly. Sometimes videos about fandoms and these types of dynamics feel hurtful. People (artists) portray themselves and engage with fans and also take big benefits out of fame and success. Obviously there are lines that should not be crossed and artists should be respected and treated with kindness and awareness. However, if an artist I was a big fan of suddenly said I was stupid for liking them, for falling for “cash grabs” and started making fun of their fans after they’ve established themselves and gotten rich and benefitted from the money, fame and status those fans gave them, it would all feel like betrayal, I’m sure of it.
@@mariah6395 exactly! you built your money and fame off your fans, and the least bit you can do is not deceive them or call them stupid 🤷♀️
i love how your jokes hit like 19 consecutive anvils on my soft skull
Tbh it makes me a bit angry that everyone comments about how Doja was frustrated about her boyfriends blacklash and cussed out her fans and yet no one talks about the Paraguay fiasco. I've never seen a community that is so complacent to xenophobia and and no one even admitted that she was in the wrong, or atleast called her out (except south american voices, of course)
i love the lighting in this video. also the content was good too
fremont farmers market mention absolutely killed me. thank you for everything ro
you posted this moments after i sliced my thumb open by dropping a bowl of cereal on the stairs. god bless
needed stitches btw, i'm ok now
Ro, your takes are so good ❤
I ducking love the pink eye makeup! It looks so good
The algorithm brought me here! You are so naturally funny! But I found myself going back because your jokes are so rapid fire. “Show me Dianetics Taylor’s Version” made me crack up for five minutes!
aini recently put out a great video about parasocial fan culture in east Asia. Looking into deep and intense parasocial relationships is really valuable perspective.
giggling and kicking my feet for new ro
Thank you Miles🙏
"Show me Dianetics- Taylor's Vesion" Killed me hahahah. Thank you as always, Ro Ramdin!!
this is a really great video. i have no idea what you said (i put this on in the background while i did cards), but boy did i enjoy hearing you say it. amazing job as always!
Thank you Miles
I genuinely do not believe Doja Cat would be getting any backlash if she 1. Stayed the fuck away from incels and 2. STOPPED ATTACKING VICTIMS ToT if she hadn't done those things I think her fans would have been fine with her saying theyre stupid for calling themselves kittens and saying she doesn't love them. Until now pretty much everything she's done gets chocked up to her being a troll, but you can't troll your way out of dating an abuser and engaging in raceplay AGAIN.
Two Ro videos in one week!
I love that this channel doesn't get too deep into dissecting the hot drama of the moment, and instead just uses it as a jumping off point. It means that a. the videos don't become wildly irrelevant a week or two after they come out and b. there's still a lot of interesting things being said even for those of us who are out-of-touch and/or old and rarely know who the people mentioned in these videos even are.
You understand things so well and put things so well it's scary
Another banger, Rose
I’ve noticed resentment within the very lyrics of a lot of pop artist’s songs. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if the lyrics are about the fans or their record labels/ producers. You can hear it from Lady Gaga with her song “Replay” with lyrics about how she’s confined to the role she plays to the public and wanting to break free but, “you monsters torture me”. Charli XCX with basically all of her deluxe tracks from Crash dissing her more zealous fans.
I agree with most of the points in this video but the Doja cat thing goes deeper than just, "oh fans are just mad she didn't say I love you." She has a boyfriend who has SA allegations with a lot of people including some of Doja Cat's fans. When some of these fans came out with their stories and tried to tell Doja Cat herself they were blocked and Doja would make extremely rude remarks about it, and this boyfriend did admit to it even though his apology was one of the most vague things ever written. Plus with the fan interactions she was getting mad at fans about stuff that she suggested like the kittens thing for her fanbase was one of her ideas in a poll she made on twitter. And the love you remarks she made after shit hit the fan made her look like a hypocrite cause she was saying I love you after it effected her ticket sales. Obviously I'm not saying Doja should say I love you to her fans or like fans should feel like she owes them anything but when you have been constantly starting drama with other people, skinny shaming content creators, getting mad at a teenager for spreading your weird crush on a celebrity, staying in a group chat with bigoted racist pieces of shit, and then date a predator, AND THEN bash your fans.... ngl I think people not liking her anymore is valid.
You're very very good at explaining and verbalizing you thought process, the video its lovely, and you are too!! Hope you have a great day.
Been loving the bangs
I hate social media it made us waaaaaay to open and entitled. if you had a problem with something you'd take it to the forum or group chat to complain like god intended.
omg how did ro Ramdin know I _am_ currently in Canada?? (every moment I don't move she gets closer)
Thanks Miles
I don't think any of these people hate their fans. In cases like Doja or Big Thief or Ayesha Erotica (who wanted to revoke her fame and discography completely) there's the overwhelming pressure/protection of a fanbase that's as ravenous for your music as they are fickle. It's an impossible line to walk when your fans have THIS MUCH access to you.
Doja can't seem to please anyone and has gone from "hyper online rap pop princess" to...something else. Something she feels more comfortable with. However, the very same internet that embraced her personality, her oddities, and her online presence en masse now seem to hate her for personal decisions (her hair, the new branding, the boyfriend, etc) and even more for seemingly "professional" concerns (her dislike of her old discography, her tweets about her fans). What a difficult tightrope.
I'm so grateful, even though it was unexpected, to see you mentioning Alexis Myles here!
They also make fantastic music on all the regular platforms, if you're not able to immediately move moolah 💸 around
the red eyeliner really brings out your eyes!!
More like Ro Random!!! Anyways this video is great and I personally appreciate how precise and complex your commentary is
my GAWD you are quick!!
i yelled when i saw you uploaded
Hi Ro! Excited to watch the video, I don't normally comment but I caught the notification early so I decided why not! Thanks for what you do!
love the eyeshadow and was unwillingly staring at it the whole video
You’re literally too quick for me to actually laugh at a joke before I’m already appreciating and wanting to laugh at the *next* joke, so I just kind of wheeze throughout the video, building to a near-panic hyperventilation until I can finally catch my breath at the closing insightful monologue…worth it though, the added element of danger just adds to the overall experience tbh
New Ro Ramdin vid? Total epic W 😎
The glow part 2 mention 💗💗💗
Amazing intro to this video! yet another banger.
awesome insightful video as always!!! i'm sure there's already lots of comments about this, but doja cat specifically is embroiled in another controversy surrounding her boyfriend. however, i dont think this derails your point at all - it is still invasive to critique a stranger's love life, but i think the nuances of that are really interesting. there are those critiquing her for being 'entitled', and there are those critiquing her for what they (and personally, i) consider a genuine moral failing, and the way they clash and intertwine INSIDE fan culture + whether that invasion of privacy is more justifiable if it's in attempt to correct another injustice are also both really interesting topics. still, i love how you always take everyone into account as kindly as possible when you discuss social phenomena, and this is a really refreshing, nuanced take on it all!
Whoa! two in one week. A true blessing.