My teacher was also a student of Gruber. I learned the same system. When you’re trying to play with ease, finesse and without pain, this system is very effective!
Excellent! who is your teacher perhaps I know him? Yes it is A very effective technique and so versatile it could be used in so many applications i and settings!
Watching this, the thought comes up »I love drummers«😇 How many similar looking rooms may there be around the world, where drummers invest hours and hours, love and dedication to understand the nature of movement, rhythm and swing - knowing that even after years of practice and experimentation, they are ultimately only ever getting closer to the real secret, without the slightest chance of ever fully fathoming it. It touches me to feel this never-ending, honest and still childlike enthusiasm for such a great thing as drumming. Thank you Sir!
I only studied with Freddie for about 6 months way back in 1968-69. I recall sitting in Freddie's entry way doing some this same warm- up with a yonger kid named John Hernandez (aka Johnny Vatos) while Freddie was giving a lesson to the late, great Jihn Guerin.
I remember being around Freddie in his house, taking lessons during those days with John Hernandez, and Mike Baird, and others. Hunt sales were studying with Freddie at the same time, and he was always around at the house with us. Freddy’s house that is!
Hi, Austrian 30+ years drummer here! Right now i’m suffering on something called Dupuytren's contracture in my left hand (can’t open the 4. Finger fully since ~5 months) , and i’ll have a surgery around mid of may, which will knock my hand out completely for a few weeks. Yes, pity me. ;) I stumbled right now about this very well explained Freddie Gruber approach, and it motivates me very much - i will start as soon as possible to practice exactly this after the surgery, to me it seems to be a very appropriate rehabilitation practice, beside the improvement of hand technique. Thank you!
HrSamstag ; Dear HrSamstag, Neal Sausen here, First I should like to say I am so sorry about your hand problems and I hope you can recover from your surgery as soon as possible! I also hope will regain/ recover full and healthy use of your ( L. H.) quickly! Yes! By all means please use this "SYSTEM" Ex. and the sugesstions contained in this video to help you in your " rehabilitation". However GO SLOW at first, take it easy and don't force the issue! "Listen" to your hands (hand), " listen" to what your body is telling you and go only as far and as long as you can " WITHOUT ANY PAIN"! Take it easy, go slow (with this) and you WILL improve your drumming technique and improve it in a healthy manner! Good luck in your "quest" for drumming life! N. S.
Thank you Neal. It was "The System" by Freddie Gruber that grabbed my attention to watch your video. It was your explanation and demonstration that had me subscribe. I look forward to learning more form you Neal. :)
Excellent breakdown!!!!b.t.w this technique was taught to me 45 yrs ago by Kenwood Denard! He claimed fame for his Wood Stroke...Taken I feel from late great drummer, author of the rocking motion, Roberto pattacia
Neal, I’m 49 and started playing drums @ 17 in 1988 with lessons via Robert “Bob” Danielson and ONE ($100/hour 😬) lesson with Tony Williams. Don Sfarzo’s “Drum World” in San Francisco had many great pros visit (e.g. Chester Thompson, Randy Castillo). This ONE lesson reveals the “great mystery” surrounding vast improvements made by Freddie Gruber’s students (e.g. Dave Weckl, Adam Nussbaum, Neil Peart) made! Thanks! *Subscribed* 👋🏻😜👍🏻🇺🇸
Flexapr ;Flexapr first off let me Thank you for your kind remarks! I am honored and humbled by them! Those were some pretty heavy hitters you studied with and I am honored that you found my video helpful to you. Please take the information to heart and good luck in your own drumming career! Where are you located? I am in Akron Ohio for now. Are you on the West Coast? Keep me informed from time to time and let me know how you’re coming along with this technique! Thank you againFor your kind words and encouragement sincerely Neal SAUSEN.
I wish this stuff was making the rounds in my area back in the late 70s. We would have been kicked out of orchestra or marching band for using these techniques. It's not surprising, thinking back on it, that no one knew how to swing back then. I was selected for the jazz ensemble in college, as a freshman, based solely on my snare drum skills and chart reading, but I couldn't swing for sh!t. It's about time this stuff has made it mainstream. Thanks for your contributions.
Of all the excellent "Gruberians" out there, you are still absolutely #1 !!! My form on these & many other exercises I believe, or rather feel, is correct, but I still don't /can't get any speed. Grrr....
Hello George 'ol boy!!! how are ya?! Hope all is good for you in Japan! Keep it real, as Freddie would say! Really don't you worry about the "speed" thing, that aspect of it will take care of itself in due time. Just work on the "Relaxed-Control" concept.....Speed will come, believe me....."IT'S HUGE"! Listen; give me a call some time you know the number or you can get (it) from "Dick" or e-mail if you care to....we'll talk "BTW" love your posted you tube videos of the "Cerone Book" I can really hear & see the "Gruber influence on your playing (execution). Keep Swing'in "Professor"
Hi Neal. I have been playing drums full time for about 20 years. I have been playing around with this technique for about a month and i was doing ok with it that is until i found your site. First off your an amazing teacher. Your presentation and explanation of this technique is fantastic. I have been watching this and practicing for about an hour a day 2x a day and i am already seeing major results. I have a good amount of speed when applying this and its getting better everyday. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to put this and all the lessons up. If you were local to me i would positively be studying with you. Again thank you and keep up the great work!
Anthony....WOW!....Thank you so much for you Positive response to my video(s)!!! Really you don't know how much it means to me that you are finding this helpful to your playing/technique! I sincerely hope you can take this knowledge and go on to do great things with it. I hope you and others will take this (technique) and go on to even greater levels of accomplishment with it than I have! This is really and truly how the "ART" of drumming progresses and evolves! Do use a metronome sometimes when you practice these excersies, it will give you an accurate indication as to "gage" your progress. and Anthony, please feel free to get back to me from time to time and let me know how your doing with it! my e-mail is: neal_sausen@hotmail.com love to hear from ya! KEEP SWING'IN! N.S.
Hi Neal. Your very welcome and i will keep you posted on my progress. I have studied with a few teachers over the years and i have been using a metronome since day one. I use it when i do any reading exercises etc. I also play without it as well but like you mentioned its a great way to "gage" my progress. If possible i will take a video of me using the technique and send it to your email address. Just an quick note i play with an 11 piece horn band and we pay tribute to Motown, 70's & 80's dance, R & B etc and we present it in a high energy "show band" format. The band is called the Soul Cruisers. I have been playing with the band for a year and they have been around for 27 years. We have a full schedule and i need to keep my hands and technique in good shape. You can find me on facebook @ anthony wolf liberto. Neal once again thank you for what your doing and i will chat with you real soon. Have a great evening! My site is: www.anthonyliberto.rocks Band site www.soulcruisers.com
Your welcome, no we don’t know each other directly! I just come from the old school teachers like you! I enjoy Freddie, spivack, morello schools of teaching!
fess04 ; fess04: thank you, thank you so much for the kind words! I wish you all success in learning and applying this technique in your drumming endeavors! N. S.
Hey Neal, excellent system explanation. I've been studying jazz for almost a year, and it's easy to notice how much you grow as a drummer applying this concepts. As soon as i get home today, I'll try to do this exercises. I'm willing to see more of your videos. Regards.
Excellent - thanks for posting. I've been working on the matched version of the mechanical aspects of this (ala Gordy Knudtsen) but never thought to use such a logical and simple (not easy - big difference) exercise. I'll be slowing my metronome down a bit for this, but this is definitely going into my workout routine.
Zach Barnhart : Very good Zach I’m sure it’ll work for you! Just make sure you motivate the 4 fingers ( open & close) from the “knuckle” joints at base of each finger (3rd. joint) with slight flexing of “middle” joints (2nd. joints). Good luck with it!
Neal, scientifically the left hand wrist movement of rocking up and down is Ulnar & Radial Deviation (bending the wrist up and down in the handshake position). The right hand movement is Supination & Pronation palm down (or up) wrist movement. The human wrist can only move roughly 50 degrees from up to down using Ulnar & Radial Deviation. Using Supination & Pronation as we do in the right hand the wrist can move 90 degrees. In traditional grip it would seem to offer greater flexibility turning the wrist in/outward versus the rocking up/down. Am I missing something on Fred's technique?
No you’re not missing anything you seem to have a good handle on it anatomically speaking! The rocking up and down motion which is where the wrist is concave/convex does not seem to conflict with the supination/ pronation movement it’s just another movement the wrist is capable of making! Because of the opening and closing motion of the fingers the supination/pronation movement is not necessary however of course we use that motion in just about 100% of left hand traditional grip. When fingers are involved usually and I must dress usually the wrist motion is minimized And the wrist is used for support while the fingers are in motion this is explained in the finger control book by Roy Burns and Louis Malin! But no you seem to have a handle on it! the left wrist as well as the right wrist are very capable machines! If used diligently and with proper judgment! Sincerely NEAL SAUSEN Shumark
Hi Neal! Thank you for sharing this. I'm almost 50 and decided to start my drumming over from scratch about 2 months ago because I really missed playing. The reason is I've only played a few times in the 4 years since my father passed away and I never learned the essential rudiments on the snare. I've played since I could walk, but always played by ear and never pursued playing correctly. Your hand technique is the best one I've found for me, as the other videos regarding the Moeller Method/ finger/hand control weren't as easy to follow and learn from. My main goal is to play more smoothly and improve my meter. I've been practicing singles, doubles, paradiddles and the 5 and 6 stroke roll for now, as a few other drummers have mentioned these are essential to apply to the kit. While I'm far from mastering these rudiments, I can tell I'm getting a little better and my control is vastly improved. Take care and peace and love to you from Arkansas!
Mat Thompson This helps a lot!! Especially for my left hand,,, I’ve been working with my thumb and fingers like crazy but the little up and down movement with the arm makes all the difference in the world, Duh!! Thanks!!!
@@ambroulard I’m glad this is helping you it makes making these videos worthwhile if you guys can get some benefit from them they’ll be more in the future
Thank you Trey and welcome! If you have any questions feel free to comment and I’ll try to answer to the best of my ability good luck with your drumming Endeavors
Holy crap! I wish I would have met you 30 years ago...damn! I've already gotten pretty good at this thanks to your brilliant demonstration! Thank you!!!!
sharkzf6 : dear sharkzf6 God Bless you AND your drumming endeavors! Am glad this is helping you in some small way to make your goals a reality! Yes Neal S. (more to come)!
sharkzf6 ; Very good! Practice the book 2 ways: “FULCRUM WRIST BOUNCE “ and then with “ FINGERS!”! See my video elsewhere on UTUBE; “A Partial Overview of Freddie Gruber Wrist and Hand Tech.”. for FWB! Good luck! with this!
Amen and God bless!! The apostle Neil has spoken!! This is one of those things that I never really mastered but I did know it and understand it from many years ago. I am going to revisit the system by Freddie Gruber as you have shown us. I'm really going to work at it and see if maybe this time I can Master it!! Thank you so very much Neil. I promise I'll let you know in a few weeks how it's working out. Until then, everybody keep your chops up!! 🥁🙃
@@nealsausen4651 thank you my friend. I happen to be in Florida and we're still not out of this storm. A lot of damage and flooding. Looks like a war zone. But the good news is we're all safe. Including the drummies!! Stay safe stay healthy and stay blessed. Hopefully we'll stay in touch 🙏🥁
Neal I really enjoyed your presentation...I'm about your age and have wanted to play the drums my entire life...am going start the learning process...do you have any advice on how to approach it....teacher, online lessons....etc?
The thing I'm forever unsure about with my traditional grip is how, when and where I should be engaging my thumb to help drive the stick from the fulcrum. Also the position of the thumb as regards it's angle across the stick - if the thumb is relaxed it lies, for me at about 45' over the stick to touch the first finger at the first joint. However, this creates a fulcrum that has a wide point of contact across the stick and so it seems to create more resistance against the stick's movement on the rebound... If, instead, I pull the thumb 'back' up the stick so it's lying at 90' across the stick (as naturally happens when opening the hand and taking the fingers out of play) I get a narrower, 'lighter' fulcrum contact that allows more freedom for the stick on the bounce... Which seems advantageous. ...I'm pretty much at ease with most other aspects of my hand technique but these thumb issues remain unresolved, I'm often left unsure of which way to go when I start focusing on my left hand technique. Interested for any thoughts in this area... Neal, or anyone else. Thanks in advance.
I think that's why use match grip. I find that I have more power and more fingers to help out than traditional. And knowing how traditional was formed, modern drum sets don't have that angular problem.
Hi!I I was shinoda . one of your students apollon music shop in Niigata(I am piano player)I found your you tube.It is nice to see you on video.I play some gigs with georg edwards. good educational video.I enjoyed a lot.
Shinoda San how are you I seem to remember you that was a long time ago how have you been doing are you still playing drums how is George Edwards doing please comment back and let me know how you are I am very happy to hear from you I am very happy to hear your comment GANBATTE NE Please say hello to KASAHARA SAN for me ja‘Ne!
@@nealsausen4651 Hi!Neal George married to japanese .lately he has got mild stroke but getting better.Me still practise drum rudimennts for fun . covid 19 is terrible in japan,especially tokyo.niigata is still safe but not covid 19 free.
@@michiroushinoda7591 : hello shinoda San! Yes I know about George, his Japanese wife and his stroke. I hope he will be OK please say hello to GEORGE for me I’m glad you are still practicing do you have another job? Do you still live Niigata? Please say hello to everyone an appollon For me talk to you soon Neal
I'm not a musician, but the traditional hand grip seems to work by inverting the left hand's fingers & thumb into the same relative spacial orientation as the right hand. The same applies to a guitarist's left hand grip, with the left hand displaying more bounce and dexterity compared to a pianist's left hand, even tho the guitar player is right-handed. With the left hand inverted, the same finger orientation is modeled by the brain, allowing the same (typically left) hemisphere to control both hands simultaneously with similar dexterity, imparting a bit more ambiguity than with traditional grips or flat keyboards. I suspect instruments like keyboards or matched drumming grips, where the hands are mirror images, appeal more to the right hand's dexterity, while inverting the left hand's grip allows similar dexterity and speed from the left hands of guitarists or sax players or drummers not seen or heard typically with a keyboard player's left hand, for example.
xxxYYZxxx : xxxYYZxxx, YES! Freddie (Gruber) always said the "TRAD./ CONVENTIONAL" and the MATCH GRIP were one and the same! Two sides of the same coin as it were! In fact you can see him (Fred) demonstrate this phenomenon(?!) on another video elsewhere on You Tube!
I use both. It is not either or. My view is traditional grip is "traditional" because near all drum sets were the same for decades -- the drum "kit" was a bass drum, snare, 1 or 2 floor toms, 1 or 2 cymbals,.... The floor toms are traditionally, other than the snare, the workpads of the kit. So you don't see many jazz drummers using matched grip.... the nature of what I need to do determines which grip I use. To use famous drummers as an example. If I want to play like Buddy Rich or Carl Palmer, I have no choice but traditional grip. If I want to play like Nick Mason (Pink Floyd drummer) it is very doubtful I will utilize traditional grip, but rather matched through the entire set.
peter bongiovanni dear Peter, that Pad is not mine. It's a borrowed pad. As I Now live in Akron Ohio and I did this video in Los Angeles. You might check e - bay for this model pad....or....you might consider just making one! It's very simple to do. Just 4 pieces of wood and a piece of rubber. However e-bay might be the way to go.
Hi Neal, Thanks for your great videos! Question...For a default positon, did Freddie say where the fulcrum was? I see your mention the first joint on the right hand here, but I've also seen you mention the long bone of the middle finger too. Thanks.
yes BRIAN thank you for your lovely complement left hand traditional grip I feel the balance point or fulcrum at the actual grip between the base of the thumb and the base of the index finger for the right hand (and left hand traditional grip) I feel the balance point across the middle finger between the first and second joints! The grip in the right hand would be like a secondary fulcrum but I just think of it as the grip the actual Fulcrum is over the second finger the long bone between the top joint and the middle joint hope that helps!
For me it seems to take a lot longer to open the whole hand and close it again. Is there an option to keep the last two fingers bent but not really holding onto the stick? It works for me.
Lorenzo1950 :Thank you Lorenzo for your recent comment. YES....there is a "streamlining" to the "System" ex. It is this: one simply keeps the "3rd. and 4th." fingers CLOSED (and relaxed) in the left hand, the "pads" of these fingers are in contact with palm of hand at all times. The top two fingers continue as before! Also, as you increase speed, the motion of the top two fingers are "MINIMALIZED" in proportion to tempo! The top two fingers do NOT extend out as far as before of course and they stay on top of the stick in a kind of "fanning motion" (out- in- out- in). You just "hone" the movement down. As I have not yet done a video explaining this modification to this technique, l do apologize! Hope this comment helps! Sincerely.....Neal Sausen.
Thanks Neal for teaching Freddie Gruber techniques. Can I ask on the matched grip, are you incorporating fingers and wrist on the 16th notes?. Also will you do a video incorporating the kit, i feel there isn't alot out there showing going around the toms & correct mounting positioning. Keep up the awesome work.
Max Mery : Hello Max: thank you for your comment/ ques. Yes, Insofar as the “Match Grip” System (16 th’s) is concerned I do EXCATLY the same with match grip “L. H.” fingers as I do with “R. H.” fingers. I OPEN on 8th. notes and CLOSE on all “in- between notes” ( e’s and a’s). The wrist motion(s)! which is what you’re asking about moves only a little! When fingers OPEN, hand lowers (slightly), when fingers CLOSE, hand raises (slightly).... from wrist joint of course! Also, the faster the tempo the smaller the (wrist) motion. Hope this helps. I don’t know when I’ll be doing a drum set video but one is in the works. In meantime I recommend “RHYTHMIC PATTERNS for the DRUM SET” by Joe Cusatis! I studied out of this book with Freddie, and it helped me immensely! N S
are you the same Gary Hall that studied with FRED GRUBER back in the early 70s?! And did you used to play with the band: “MAMA LION”?! If you are, I’d love to talk to you I remember you. We had lessons on the same day at the music stop in Canoga Park, California.
fnord23 Thank you so much for your positive imput! Unfortunetly I no longer live in So. Cal area I now reside in Akron Oh. However I do come to L.A. from time to time for short visits. I will be in L.A. from Nov. 29 to about the 2nd. week in Dec. this year. If you would like to get in touch with me, you can reach me @: neal_sausen@hotmail.com we can set something up perhaps?!
HI Neal, thank you for the excellent presentation, but still one question remains: why do you work your forearm so hard (at around 12:00 mark), whereas other instructors emphasize working the wrist movement only?
Alex Besperstov : Alex, thank you for positive comments and an excellent question! I have thought about your question, (I) sat down and did the exercise in question and found that it seems that the "rebound" or "bouncing action" of the stick off of the (in this case) the pad, makes my forearm " rise" like that. In other words it seems to appear that my forearm is (frantically?!) working but in reality, when I concentrate on it I'm not feeling so much "tension". It's the " recoil action" of stick "throwing" my (fore) arm up and off the pad that makes it look that way ! (interesting phenomenon I never really though about)! It's true though, what you state; the wrist SHOULD come more into play, as arm motion minimizes! I should point out that I myself am STILL working to minimize this arm motion! Those instructors are RIGHT! More wrist, less arm at faster tempos! In fact I would take it a step further and propose that the wrist movement be honed down to a minimum, all the emphasis being concentrated on finger action and rebound only! Again I still feel the need to "perfect" (?!) this "approach"! It''s a never ending story, is'nt it Alex, this drumming thing of ours! Good luck to you in YOUR drumming endeavors! Neal Sausen
Neal Sausen Thank you for the thoughtful reply, I only begin to learn the technique, that’s why I am trying to discern all the details. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the whole idea of push&pull techniques is to get two strokes out of just one wrist motion cycle, so finger control alone is a completely different story.
Alex Besperstov Dear Alex; Yes that is true.... One (1) wrist motion but whithin that one wrist motion are TWO (2) finger motions (one - open & one -close). That's why (in my opinion anyway) this makes an excellent Finger"warm up" excerise, N. S. PS: please refer to my u-tube video on finger control (" An Overview of finger control, elsewhere on U- Tube. Fingers are a seperate and distinct "study".
Billy Barton Yes Bill, you are correct! Movements are same, only counting is reversed. You can count the ex. either way but it is still one open motion alternating with one closing motion. Hope this helps. Neal Sausen.
mr. jinks : Sorry to hear about your grip problem you might try practicing an exercise called “PICK UP’S”! They’re done very slowly and their quarter notes! basically you start with both hands In the up position play for Strokes with the right hand and then four quarter notes with Your left hand over and over slowly four strokes per hand with hands starting in the up position! come Straight down to pad and immediately as you strike gently squeeze the thumb and index finger against the stick as you quickly pick the stick back up do not snap to stick it is not a sudden jerky tensioning of the muscles it’s just a rebound but try to pull the stick back up from the wrist joint and the grip and immediately upon striking the drum and pulling the stick back up quickly relax the muscles after the stick returns to its original starting height give yourself plenty of time between each quarter note come down quickly just touch the pad and pull the stick back up quickly from the grip with the four fingers curled loosely around the drumstick and the normal natural position don’t squeeze a stick with the fingers just pluck the stick back up from the grip and the wrist hinge give yourself a few seconds between each quarter note to relax night wrist muscles and arm muscles do this four times with the right hand four times for the left hand! Variation of this exercise is to take the second finger away from the stick slightly quarter of an inch or so and descriptive stick with the family next finger and the third and fourth fingers held gently against the stick remember the second finger is slightly off the stick it doesn’t touch the stick you can put apply a little pressure against the stick with the pinky but most of the quick plucking or pick up action is done with a grip and wrist hinge keep your forearm relaxed and as loose as possible try this for a couple of weeks don’t overdo it disclaimer if you feel any tension or discomfort stop the exercise immediately and let your hands relax then resume the exerciseWith practice you’ll be able to do the exercise for longer periods of time and this will increase the strength of your grip without you becoming stiff but remember through these pick ups this quick plucking of a stick up off the Drum in as relaxed manner as possible relax immediately after returning to stick to the starting height relax the muscles in the hand and wrist and forearm before making the next stroke see if this helps bye-bye!
mr. jinks :Good! Just remember to squeeze the stick slightly with the farm at first joint of the index finger on the actual strike and immediately in a relaxed condition pool stick up back off the drum head to the upright position and you should have it do that for about five minutes take a break to another couple minutes don’t overdo this exercise because I can make you Steph if you snap or straight to hard there’sNo snap involved it’s just a quick brushing of the head and turning the ham back up the instant you strike!
The sticks I’m using this video or a Vic Firth Scott Johnson models they have the rubber ball on the tip nice and wavy normally I use either a 5-A or a 5-B Of various Makes, Usually Vic Firth or ZILDJIAN sticks are use the two above mentioned types for Drum said playing and the rubber tip stick for practice pad work by the way the Scott Johnson model is a drum Corps model stick! Hope this answers your question and good luck!
To "clear" up any mis-understanding as to the "name"(?!) given to this technique...."they're ALL good"! "System," "Push-Pull," "Open-Close (tech.)," "Pump" You can call it a "pineapple" if you want to! All I'm saying is that the term "SYSTEM" is the "name" Freddie used all those years ago when he first taught it to me! Just Say'in! love to all.........N. S. Refer to Marc Bolger video; " The Freddie Gruber Method Stick....".n s
Christian Wagenseil :Christian you are not screwed at all! You found this video and that’s a big step just take your time relax with it give yourself time with it and you’ll be developing stuff before you even know it! Good luck and remember the old adage” “BETTER LATE THAN NEVER”!
@@nealsausen4651 noo! The camera adds a few pounds, but I would say you're pleasantly ...petite :-) It was the drumming that reminded me of Meatloaf.. you and him have the same drumming technique :...and side profile! Good lesson by the way! I'm nearing Steve Gadd territory and this was the last bit I needed to get "over the hump " haha
@@farshimelt Makes no sense. Yet he is viewed as some kind of "guru"? You can find videos on just about any drummer playing. All the ones I see is him just talking philosophy and how to drop the stick. I've never even seen him play on a practice pad....
I do not know if John or Jim play this way or not. All I know is that they are BOTH "Monsters" at what they do! Love and respect to all........ N. S. (10-19-17).
Great Thanks ,, I live in Vancouver BC and get to see these guys play at times also Reid Maxwell ,Scott Robertson and others i always enjoy.It is great that you know some of the Pipe band Drummers .,
squamishfish : yeah I love the 3 "great styles" : Scotch, Swiss, and American styles of rudimental Snare Drumming! BTW I loveVancouver B. C.! I've been there many times, I'd love to settle there someday! N. S.
Sam Robinson : Dunno.... what can I tell ya? There are a few “ boot legs” out there, “ The Band That Never Was” on Spot Light Records, ( an English Indie label) with Freddie on it. Also some Charlie Parker indie cd’s I’ve seen at Freddie’s house some years ago with Freddie on Drums. He (Freddie) sounded damn good too as I recall.
Drummer J.L.H. : Sorry to hear of your negative experience with Fred. You are not the only one to experience “bad vibes” with him ! Nor the 1st.! I’ve heard such stories like yours at various times over the years. He was NOT the teacher for everyone! ( but then, who is?!) You had to have a “certain mind set” to get along with him. I can’t help but wonder what kind of a result you would have gotten if you would have gone ahead and given it 6 mos. or a year or so! I know Don (Ellis) loved Freddie. I had the lesson right after Don and Fred would always have me “demonstrate” drum technique for him and Don was very into it with Fred. I was a “witness” to this, what can I say?! Don always thought very highly of Fred. Fred DID play with Buddy De Franco! We know this because Fred is featured in the 1951 issue of the “LEEDY/LUDWIG” Drum Catalouge.... a B n W photo of a young Fred Gruber sitting behind a set of Leedy’s with Buddy standing behind him with his hand on Fred’s shoulder, I have the catalogue. And....there is a photo of Fred on stage with Buddy at the “Blue Note” in N. Y. late 40’s! So yes Fred did play with various “ heavy weights”! Bud Powell was another artist Fred did gigs around N. Y. with. And he did know Bellson, I knew Louie too and I had several discussions with him (about Freddie) and Louie always spoke very highly about Fred both in regards to his teaching AND his playing. I am well aware that Fred did not always “click” with everyone! There were times I got bugged/ frustrated with him as well! But I stuck it out with him for all those years and Ill tell you what,.... I am so glad I did! What can I tell ya!
He is the drummer equivalent of Anthony Bourdain. I've never seen freddy play the drums, only talk about them; and I've never seen Bourdain cook a meal.
@@nealsausen4651 Around 1961, Freddie had a Sunday morning breakfast session at a club in East L.A. Dolo Coker was the pianist. Freddy would play the first tune, introduce the trio (I don't remember the bassist) then, invite drummers to sit in. He always played the tune with brushes, nothing fancy or special, just smooth motion and great time and feel. On Gene Stone's recommendation, I took a couple of lessons from Freddie before I left for Europe. At the first lesson, he had me play singles, went to the bathroom and didn't re-appear for 30 mins. I kept playing singles. About a week after the 2nd lesson, I called and told him I was going to Europe in a week. He asked me what I was going to do about my brush playing? I told him, play them the same way I played with sticks. He said, "NO!!!" and hung up. When I returned, 8 yrs. later, I could no longer afford to study with him.
Neal, I know this video is 3 plus years old but, I'm trying to learn the traditional grip left hand playing. The only person that I've seen do and teach what I'm looking for is Ted Mackenzie, " The Buddy Rich Rudiment Style Book" but he lives in NY. Now he lives in Dallas Georgia, which is 700 miles away from me in Florida. I live in the Tampa bay area. I want to learn correctly like you are showing on this video. What state do you live in because I want lessons in person, so in case I have any questions I can ask them right there and I can be watched so I know if I'm continuing to do everything correct. Please email me asap because I'm not getting any younger. I've played classic rock music since 1975 but, I want out of that restricted shit playing and style of playing. If I would have learned yours or Freddie Gruber's style of playing, I would have been one of the best drummers around. I'm not being cocky, just honest. When I am taught something, I put 120% into it. Please contact me asap. Thank You Very Much Joseph. P.S. Your playing and video is fantastic...
Thank you so much joseph for your beautiful comment I happen to live in Akron Ohio now I’m a bit north and east of you are eventually I will be offering online lessons but right now I am not set up for this unfortunately! I have taken your comment into account and filed it and when I am ready to start some kind of online teaching I will contact you and we’ll see where things stand in the meantime try to find the best teacher you can in Florida Les De Merle is down there and he’s excellent he’s in Fernandez I believe He is a monster and a monster teacher and I studied with him back in Los Angeles in the 70s he was my teacher for a while just tell him you know me and I highly recommended him to you you could probably find his website online I don’t have that information with me right now sorry about that go online look up les he does teach and he can help you a lot good luck with this Neal
Marty White : yeah I used to see Freddy play all the time! What’s the big deal! Anyway he made his mark as a teacher not so much as a player! Anything wrong or odd about that?! There are a lot of great teachers out there who are not known as players, That’s just the way it is,, you’ve got teachers and you’ve got players, and then you’ve got both! I don’t get it these remarks from people who just because they never saw someone play they somehow think that person is invalid as a teacher and vice versa! Go figure!
Neal Sausen That's kind of BS. I've seen plenty of videos where he sits behind a kit, but never touches it. I know he played with Parker. It's just odd. Very odd
Marty White Bullshit my ass what the hell are you talking about?! You obviously never saw the Freddy GRUBER I saw and I studied with him every week for over a quarter of a century so I think I have a little more insight then your clinic videos reveal and that’s a no BS and that’s no BS! I think when it comes to FRED GRUBER you defer to me I don’t defer to you!
Neal Sausen Don't get bunched. For all his invented greatness, one would assume there'd be a clip of him touching a drum. But no. Did your study with him include walking around the city at all hours of the night while he pontificated about why square framed glasses from the 1970s were super stylish?🖕
My teacher was also a student of Gruber. I learned the same system. When you’re trying to play with ease, finesse and without pain, this system is very effective!
Excellent! who is your teacher perhaps I know him?
Yes it is A very effective technique and so versatile it could be used in so many applications i and settings!
Watching this, the thought comes up »I love drummers«😇 How many similar looking rooms may there be around the world, where drummers invest hours and hours, love and dedication to understand the nature of movement, rhythm and swing - knowing that even after years of practice and experimentation, they are ultimately only ever getting closer to the real secret, without the slightest chance of ever fully fathoming it. It touches me to feel this never-ending, honest and still childlike enthusiasm for such a great thing as drumming. Thank you Sir!
I only studied with Freddie for about 6 months way back in 1968-69. I recall sitting in Freddie's entry way doing some this same warm- up with a yonger kid named John Hernandez (aka Johnny Vatos) while Freddie was giving a lesson to the late, great Jihn Guerin.
I remember being around Freddie in his house, taking lessons during those days with John Hernandez, and Mike Baird, and others. Hunt sales were studying with Freddie at the same time, and he was always around at the house with us. Freddy’s house that is!
You have a lot of wisdom, please keep sharing. Enjoy your teachings.
The best explanation of this technique on CZcams. Thank you. I love your approach.
Thanks Neal for posting this. It's exactly what I've been looking for. Looking forward to future videos.
One of the most useful technique videos on CZcams. Thank you!
Thank you Patrick!
Hi, Austrian 30+ years drummer here! Right now i’m suffering on something called Dupuytren's contracture in my left hand (can’t open the 4. Finger fully since ~5 months) , and i’ll have a surgery around mid of may, which will knock my hand out completely for a few weeks. Yes, pity me. ;) I stumbled right now about this very well explained Freddie Gruber approach, and it motivates me very much - i will start as soon as possible to practice exactly this after the surgery, to me it seems to be a very appropriate rehabilitation practice, beside the improvement of hand technique. Thank you!
HrSamstag ; Dear HrSamstag,
Neal Sausen here, First I should like to say I am so sorry about your hand problems and I hope you can recover from your surgery as soon as possible!
I also hope will regain/ recover full and healthy use of your ( L. H.) quickly!
Yes! By all means please use this "SYSTEM" Ex. and the sugesstions contained in this video to help you in your " rehabilitation". However GO SLOW at first, take it easy and don't force the issue! "Listen" to your hands (hand), " listen" to what your body is telling you and go only as far and as long as you can " WITHOUT ANY PAIN"!
Take it easy, go slow (with this) and you WILL improve your drumming technique and improve it in a healthy manner! Good luck in your "quest" for drumming life! N. S.
Excellent explanation and demonstration of this technique, much appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you so much for such a careful, complete description. Much appreciated!
David Myers ; thank you Dave please use and enjoy! And thanx for subscribing!
Excellent Neal. This is exceptionally well explained. Thank you - inspirational.
Great video; excellent instruction, explanation, and demonstration.
Thank you Neal. It was "The System" by Freddie Gruber that grabbed my attention to watch your video. It was your explanation and demonstration that had me subscribe. I look forward to learning more form you Neal. :)
Great video. Beautifully explained and demonstrated. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Great explanation and demonstration of this technique!
Thank you, that is a good explanation of Freddie's "system".
Excellent breakdown!!!!b.t.w this technique was taught to me 45 yrs ago by Kenwood Denard! He claimed fame for his Wood Stroke...Taken I feel from late great drummer, author of the rocking motion, Roberto pattacia
Muito obrigado! Pessoas como o senhor ajudam-nos a sermos melhores. Thank you very much! People like you help us being better.
Whew, I was right back in the practice room with my teacher! Thank you.
Thank you Larry! Much appreciated!!!
Great stuff! Thank you.
Neal! That’s fantastic!!!! Thanks!
Thank you so much Andrew, please enjoy! More to come!
Stay tuned. N. S.
American One Productions loves this video! Great stuff!
Great stuff Neal! Love to hear about Gruber's Approach :) Please do share more, Thx.
WorldDrummerStef :Thanx, "W.D.S." You bet!
Wonderful, so relaxed….and enjoyable to watch and practice!
: Thank you Vincent I appreciate the Encouraging words!
Thank you, Neal. I really enjoyed your explanation. Very informative!
Scott
You bet Scott, hope it helps!!! N. S.
Neal, I’m 49 and started playing drums @ 17 in 1988 with lessons via Robert “Bob” Danielson and ONE ($100/hour 😬) lesson with Tony Williams. Don Sfarzo’s “Drum World” in San Francisco had many great pros visit (e.g. Chester Thompson, Randy Castillo). This ONE lesson reveals the “great mystery” surrounding vast improvements made by Freddie Gruber’s students (e.g. Dave Weckl, Adam Nussbaum, Neil Peart) made! Thanks! *Subscribed* 👋🏻😜👍🏻🇺🇸
Flexapr ;Flexapr first off let me Thank you for your kind remarks! I am honored and humbled by them! Those were some pretty heavy hitters you studied with and I am honored that you found my video helpful to you. Please take the information to heart and good luck in your own drumming career! Where are you located? I am in Akron Ohio for now. Are you on the West Coast? Keep me informed from time to time and let me know how you’re coming along with this technique! Thank you againFor your kind words and encouragement sincerely Neal SAUSEN.
love it
I wish this stuff was making the rounds in my area back in the late 70s. We would have been kicked out of orchestra or marching band for using these techniques. It's not surprising, thinking back on it, that no one knew how to swing back then. I was selected for the jazz ensemble in college, as a freshman, based solely on my snare drum skills and chart reading, but I couldn't swing for sh!t. It's about time this stuff has made it mainstream. Thanks for your contributions.
Ahhhh, finally....clarity. Thank you for the details largely left out of other similar hand technique videos.
welcome guy I’m glad you found this of interest! Hope this helps!
I remember Carl Tassi (another student of Freddie's) teaching me this. Thank you, Neal, for your clear and thorough demonstration.
I love Carl, he is good friend of mine say hello to him for me Willia, when you see him him
Of all the excellent "Gruberians" out there, you are still absolutely #1 !!! My form on these & many other exercises I believe, or rather feel, is correct, but I still don't
/can't get any speed. Grrr....
Hello George 'ol boy!!! how are ya?! Hope all is good for you in Japan! Keep it real, as Freddie would say! Really don't you worry about the "speed" thing, that aspect of it will take care of itself in due time. Just work on the "Relaxed-Control" concept.....Speed will come, believe me....."IT'S HUGE"! Listen; give me a call some time you know the number or you can get (it) from "Dick" or e-mail if you care to....we'll talk "BTW" love your posted you tube videos of the "Cerone Book" I can really hear & see the "Gruber influence on your playing (execution). Keep Swing'in "Professor"
Hi Neal. I have been playing drums full time for about 20 years. I have been playing around with this technique for about a month and i was doing ok with it that is until i found your site.
First off your an amazing teacher. Your presentation and explanation of this technique is fantastic. I have been watching this and practicing for about an hour a day 2x a day and i am already seeing major results. I have a good amount of speed when applying this and its getting better everyday. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to put this and all the lessons up. If you were local to me i would positively be studying with you. Again thank you and keep up the great work!
Anthony....WOW!....Thank you so much for you Positive response to my video(s)!!! Really you don't know how much it means to me that you are finding this helpful to your playing/technique! I sincerely hope you can take this knowledge and go on to do great things with it. I hope you and others will take this (technique) and go on to even greater levels of accomplishment with it than I have! This is really and truly how the "ART" of drumming progresses and evolves! Do use a metronome sometimes when you practice these excersies, it will give you an accurate indication as to "gage" your progress. and Anthony, please feel free to get back to me from time to time and let me know how your doing with it! my e-mail is: neal_sausen@hotmail.com love to hear from ya! KEEP SWING'IN! N.S.
Hi Neal. Your very welcome and i will keep you posted on my progress. I have studied with a few teachers over the years and i have been using a metronome since day one. I use it when i do any reading exercises etc. I also play without it as well but like you mentioned its a great way to "gage" my progress. If possible i will take a video of me using the technique and send it to your email address. Just an quick note i play with an 11 piece horn band and we pay tribute to Motown, 70's & 80's dance, R & B etc and we present it in a high energy "show band" format. The band is called the Soul Cruisers. I have been playing with the band for a year and they have been around for 27 years. We have a full schedule and i need to keep my hands and technique in good shape. You can find me on facebook @ anthony wolf liberto. Neal once again thank you for what your doing and i will chat with you real soon. Have a great evening! My site is: www.anthonyliberto.rocks Band site www.soulcruisers.com
great!! thank you for this lesson , really help me in great deal
Thank you Neal for the tutorial.
The best explanation on YT by far! Many thanks!
Thank you!
Nice, Freddie was awesome! Quite a character! Loved his stories! Rip the master!
drumteacher43 : Thank you so much for your kind words! YES he was quite a unique guy! Please keep in touch!
BTW do we know each other?!
Your welcome, no we don’t know each other directly! I just come from the old school teachers like you! I enjoy Freddie, spivack, morello schools of teaching!
Brilliant. Your a legend. 🎶🎵
Thank you John for the kind words I hope the video helps you! Or at least gives you another viewpoint.
gorgeous....absolutely gorgeous
fess04 ; fess04: thank you, thank you so much for the kind words!
I wish you all success in learning and applying this technique in your drumming endeavors!
N. S.
Hey Neal, excellent system explanation. I've been studying jazz for almost a year, and it's easy to notice how much you grow as a drummer applying this concepts. As soon as i get home today, I'll try to do this exercises. I'm willing to see more of your videos. Regards.
Alejandro Luna : Thank you, Alejandro! Good Luck with this! More (videos) to come!
That clears up a lot actually. I'll be working on that left hand balance point. Thanks!
Buzz C ; That’s good to hear I’m glad this helps you good luck with your playing, keep me posted!
Excellent - thanks for posting. I've been working on the matched version of the mechanical aspects of this (ala Gordy Knudtsen) but never thought to use such a logical and simple (not easy - big difference) exercise. I'll be slowing my metronome down a bit for this, but this is definitely going into my workout routine.
Zach Barnhart : Very good Zach I’m sure it’ll work for you! Just make sure
you motivate the 4 fingers ( open & close) from the “knuckle” joints at base of each finger (3rd. joint) with slight flexing of “middle” joints (2nd. joints).
Good luck with it!
Thanks Dude this is a great Explanation........
Neal, scientifically the left hand wrist movement of rocking up and down is Ulnar & Radial Deviation (bending the wrist up and down in the handshake position). The right hand movement is Supination & Pronation palm down (or up) wrist movement. The human wrist can only move roughly 50 degrees from up to down using Ulnar & Radial Deviation. Using Supination & Pronation as we do in the right hand the wrist can move 90 degrees. In traditional grip it would seem to offer greater flexibility turning the wrist in/outward versus the rocking up/down. Am I missing something on Fred's technique?
No you’re not missing anything you seem to have a good handle on it anatomically speaking! The rocking up and down motion which is where the wrist is concave/convex does not seem to conflict with the supination/ pronation movement it’s just another movement the wrist is capable of making! Because of the opening and closing motion of the fingers the supination/pronation movement is not necessary however of course we use that motion in just about 100% of left hand traditional grip. When fingers are involved usually and I must dress usually the wrist motion is minimized And the wrist is used for support while the fingers are in motion this is explained in the finger control book by Roy Burns and Louis Malin! But no you seem to have a handle on it! the left wrist as well as the right wrist are very capable machines! If used diligently and with proper judgment! Sincerely NEAL SAUSEN Shumark
buoyancy is a very descriptive word when you understand the "floating" of the sticks and the motions!
Great man !
Great instruction and great hands !!!!
Joseph Dendas ; Thank you Joseph for kind words! Enjoy!
Hi Neal! Thank you for sharing this. I'm almost 50 and decided to start my drumming over from scratch about 2 months ago because I really missed playing. The reason is I've only played a few times in the 4 years since my father passed away and I never learned the essential rudiments on the snare. I've played since I could walk, but always played by ear and never pursued playing correctly. Your hand technique is the best one I've found for me, as the other videos regarding the Moeller Method/ finger/hand control weren't as easy to follow and learn from. My main goal is to play more smoothly and improve my meter. I've been practicing singles, doubles, paradiddles and the 5 and 6 stroke roll for now, as a few other drummers have mentioned these are essential to apply to the kit. While I'm far from mastering these rudiments, I can tell I'm getting a little better and my control is vastly improved. Take care and peace and love to you from Arkansas!
Mat Thompson This helps a lot!! Especially for my left hand,,, I’ve been working with my thumb and fingers like crazy but the little up and down movement with the arm makes all the difference in the world, Duh!! Thanks!!!
Thank you Mat I love your comment good luck to you and I’m glad it’s working for you
@@ambroulard I’m glad this is helping you it makes making these videos worthwhile if you guys can get some benefit from them they’ll be more in the future
Good info, thanks!🙏🏼
CJWolfeDrums : You’re most certainly welcome C J! Good luck with this!
Neal S.
Nice to have a clear explanation of the motion on Traditional technique. Thanks very much and God bless you😇
And God bless you too Enrico. Good luck with your drumming I hope this helps!😊
WOW YEAH . 4 SURE
Thank you for your insight,still working on it,matched grip.i have the same old school pad you have.60 year old retired drummer
Thank you. I’m new to your channel. Love the info!!
Thank you Trey and welcome! If you have any questions feel free to comment and I’ll try to answer to the best of my ability good luck with your drumming Endeavors
It's lovely to find and see You!!! Reminds Me of our times at the "MAESTRO"'s house . Give Me a post so We can connect.
;great visual helping finger push pull. Thanks…..
Thanks Neal for the post.
awesome mate that really shows it .thx
Simon Stuart : Thank you so much
Simon got the kind words, Make this “work” for you too!
Holy crap! I wish I would have met you 30 years ago...damn! I've already gotten pretty good at this thanks to your brilliant demonstration! Thank you!!!!
sharkzf6 : dear sharkzf6 God Bless you AND your drumming endeavors! Am glad this is helping you in some small way to make your goals a reality! Yes
Neal S. (more to come)!
Neal Sausen thank you! I would love to see more, and I did order the book (Burnes and Malin)
sharkzf6 ; Very good!
Practice the book 2 ways: “FULCRUM WRIST BOUNCE “ and then with “ FINGERS!”! See my video elsewhere on UTUBE; “A Partial Overview of Freddie Gruber Wrist and Hand Tech.”. for FWB!
Good luck! with this!
Thank you Neal!
You’re most welcome STEVE. Hope it works for You.
Thank you, sir.
You’re most certainly welcome Alain!
Hope it works for you!
Amen and God bless!! The apostle Neil has spoken!! This is one of those things that I never really mastered but I did know it and understand it from many years ago. I am going to revisit the system by Freddie Gruber as you have shown us. I'm really going to work at it and see if maybe this time I can Master it!! Thank you so very much Neil. I promise I'll let you know in a few weeks how it's working out. Until then, everybody keep your chops up!! 🥁🙃
Thank you John good luck to you I love your positive outlook success in all you do!
@@nealsausen4651 thank you my friend. I happen to be in Florida and we're still not out of this storm. A lot of damage and flooding. Looks like a war zone. But the good news is we're all safe. Including the drummies!! Stay safe stay healthy and stay blessed. Hopefully we'll stay in touch 🙏🥁
@@johnmercurio8529 : Will do John and you as well stay good down there and keep swinging!🥁
Great Hands!!! Wow
Joseph Dendas ; Thank you Joseph.
Please enjoy’
Very nice!!
Hey, we have the same last name and this is not a common last name! What is the history of your family?
Good master .....big master
antonia orellana : yeah well I am “BIG”.... just look at mo! Don’t know how good I am though! LOL!
But I do thank you for your response!
What a great explanation
Wekl brought me here 👍
Thank you Garry I really do appreciate your comment glad this helps you
Great exercise!
David Wilcox : Thanx David I hope this “works” for you! Please take it to even “greater heights” than I have done.
Neal I really enjoyed your presentation...I'm about your age and have wanted to play the drums my entire life...am going start the learning process...do you have any advice on how to approach it....teacher, online lessons....etc?
The thing I'm forever unsure about with my traditional grip is how, when and where I should be engaging my thumb to help drive the stick from the fulcrum.
Also the position of the thumb as regards it's angle across the stick - if the thumb is relaxed it lies, for me at about 45' over the stick to touch the first finger at the first joint. However, this creates a fulcrum that has a wide point of contact across the stick and so it seems to create more resistance against the stick's movement on the rebound... If, instead, I pull the thumb 'back' up the stick so it's lying at 90' across the stick (as naturally happens when opening the hand and taking the fingers out of play) I get a narrower, 'lighter' fulcrum contact that allows more freedom for the stick on the bounce... Which seems advantageous.
...I'm pretty much at ease with most other aspects of my hand technique but these thumb issues remain unresolved, I'm often left unsure of which way to go when I start focusing on my left hand technique.
Interested for any thoughts in this area... Neal, or anyone else. Thanks in advance.
I think that's why use match grip. I find that I have more power and more fingers to help out than traditional. And knowing how traditional was formed, modern drum sets don't have that angular problem.
Oh yes very nice excellent
bret dorton : Thank you Bret, please enjoy! Hope it helps all you guys!
Hi!I I was shinoda . one of your students apollon music shop in Niigata(I am piano player)I found your you tube.It is nice to see you on video.I play some gigs with georg edwards. good educational video.I enjoyed a lot.
Shinoda San how are you I seem to remember you that was a long time ago how have you been doing are you still playing drums how is George Edwards doing please comment back and let me know how you are I am very happy to hear from you I am very happy to hear your comment GANBATTE NE Please say hello to KASAHARA SAN for me ja‘Ne!
@@nealsausen4651 Hi!Neal George married to japanese .lately he has got mild stroke but getting better.Me still practise drum rudimennts for fun . covid 19 is terrible in japan,especially tokyo.niigata is still safe but not covid 19 free.
@@michiroushinoda7591 : hello shinoda San!
Yes I know about George, his Japanese wife and his stroke. I hope he will be OK please say hello to GEORGE for me I’m glad you are still practicing do you have another job? Do you still live Niigata? Please say hello to everyone an appollon For me talk to you soon Neal
I'm not a musician, but the traditional hand grip seems to work by inverting the left hand's fingers & thumb into the same relative spacial orientation as the right hand. The same applies to a guitarist's left hand grip, with the left hand displaying more bounce and dexterity compared to a pianist's left hand, even tho the guitar player is right-handed. With the left hand inverted, the same finger orientation is modeled by the brain, allowing the same (typically left) hemisphere to control both hands simultaneously with similar dexterity, imparting a bit more ambiguity than with traditional grips or flat keyboards. I suspect instruments like keyboards or matched drumming grips, where the hands are mirror images, appeal more to the right hand's dexterity, while inverting the left hand's grip allows similar dexterity and speed from the left hands of guitarists or sax players or drummers not seen or heard typically with a keyboard player's left hand, for example.
xxxYYZxxx : xxxYYZxxx, YES! Freddie (Gruber) always said the "TRAD./ CONVENTIONAL" and the MATCH GRIP were one and the same! Two sides of the same coin as it were! In fact you can see him (Fred) demonstrate this phenomenon(?!) on another video elsewhere on You Tube!
I use both. It is not either or. My view is traditional grip is "traditional" because near all drum sets were the same for decades -- the drum "kit" was a bass drum, snare, 1 or 2 floor toms, 1 or 2 cymbals,....
The floor toms are traditionally, other than the snare, the workpads of the kit. So you don't see many jazz drummers using matched grip.... the nature of what I need to do determines which grip I use.
To use famous drummers as an example. If I want to play like Buddy Rich or Carl Palmer, I have no choice but traditional grip. If I want to play like Nick Mason (Pink Floyd drummer) it is very doubtful I will utilize traditional grip, but rather matched through the entire set.
I love your technique! I do only match grip only because I just can't get along with traditional.
Cool ... thx 😀
Christoph Meirich : you are most certainly welcome, Chris.... enjoy!
Nice one
love the sound of that pad do you have any extra you're willing to sell?
peter bongiovanni dear Peter, that Pad is not mine. It's a borrowed pad. As I Now live in Akron Ohio and I did this video in Los Angeles. You might check e - bay for this model pad....or....you might consider just making one! It's very simple to do. Just 4 pieces of wood and a piece of rubber.
However e-bay might be the way to go.
Not just any rubber, but "gum rubber", whatever that really is. Some rubbers feel great, others not so great (I'm talking about for drumming here!)
To George: "UH - HUH!!! Love, Neal
Hi Neal, Thanks for your great videos! Question...For a default positon, did Freddie say where the fulcrum was? I see your mention the first joint on the right hand here, but I've also seen you mention the long bone of the middle finger too. Thanks.
yes BRIAN thank you for your lovely complement left hand traditional grip I feel the balance point or fulcrum at the actual grip between the base of the thumb and the base of the index finger for the right hand (and left hand traditional grip) I feel the balance point across the middle finger between the first and second joints! The grip in the right hand would be like a secondary fulcrum but I just think of it as the grip the actual Fulcrum is over the second finger the long bone between the top joint and the middle joint hope that helps!
For me it seems to take a lot longer to open the whole hand and close it again. Is there an option to keep the last two fingers bent but not really holding onto the stick? It works for me.
Lorenzo1950 :Thank you Lorenzo for your recent comment. YES....there is a "streamlining" to the "System" ex.
It is this: one simply keeps the "3rd. and 4th." fingers CLOSED (and relaxed) in the left hand, the "pads" of these fingers are in contact with palm of hand at all times. The top two fingers continue as before! Also, as you increase speed, the motion of the top two fingers are
"MINIMALIZED" in proportion to tempo!
The top two fingers do NOT extend out as far as before of course and they stay on top of the stick in a kind of "fanning motion" (out- in- out- in).
You just "hone" the movement down.
As I have not yet done a video explaining this modification to this technique, l do apologize!
Hope this comment helps!
Sincerely.....Neal Sausen.
Thanks Neal for teaching Freddie Gruber techniques. Can I ask on the matched grip, are you incorporating fingers and wrist on the 16th notes?.
Also will you do a video incorporating the kit, i feel there isn't alot out there showing going around the toms & correct mounting positioning.
Keep up the awesome work.
Max Mery : Hello Max: thank you for your comment/ ques.
Yes, Insofar as the “Match Grip” System (16 th’s) is concerned I do EXCATLY the same with match grip “L. H.” fingers as I do with “R. H.” fingers. I OPEN on 8th. notes and CLOSE on all “in- between notes” ( e’s and a’s).
The wrist motion(s)! which is what you’re asking about moves only a little!
When fingers OPEN, hand lowers (slightly), when fingers CLOSE, hand raises (slightly).... from wrist joint of course!
Also, the faster the tempo the smaller the (wrist) motion. Hope this helps.
I don’t know when I’ll be doing a drum set video but one is in the works. In meantime I recommend “RHYTHMIC PATTERNS for the DRUM SET” by Joe Cusatis! I studied out of this book with Freddie, and it helped me immensely! N S
@@nealsausen4651 Thanks for taking time Neal to answer my email. Keep up the great work.
Max
👌👍
are you the same Gary Hall that studied with FRED GRUBER back in the early 70s?! And did you used to play with the band:
“MAMA LION”?!
If you are, I’d love to talk to you I remember you. We had lessons on the same day at the music stop in Canoga Park, California.
Thanks Neal for the insight, are you still teaching in svf area? im in the 818 and would so be stoked to sit and learn from you
fnord23 Thank you so much for your positive imput! Unfortunetly I no longer live in So. Cal area I now reside in Akron Oh. However I do come to L.A. from time to time for short visits. I will be in L.A. from Nov. 29 to about the 2nd. week in Dec. this year. If you would like to get in touch with me, you can reach me @: neal_sausen@hotmail.com we can set something up perhaps?!
HI Neal, thank you for the excellent presentation, but still one question remains: why do you work your forearm so hard (at around 12:00 mark), whereas other instructors emphasize working the wrist movement only?
Alex Besperstov : Alex, thank you for positive comments and an excellent question! I have thought about your question, (I) sat down and did the exercise in question and found that it seems that the "rebound" or "bouncing action" of the stick off of the (in this case) the pad, makes my forearm " rise" like that. In other words it seems to appear that my forearm is (frantically?!) working but in reality, when I concentrate on it I'm not feeling so much "tension". It's the " recoil action" of stick "throwing" my (fore) arm up and off the pad that makes it look that way ! (interesting phenomenon I never really though about)! It's true though, what you state; the wrist SHOULD come more into play, as arm motion minimizes! I should point out that I myself am STILL working to minimize this arm motion! Those instructors are RIGHT! More wrist, less arm at faster tempos! In fact I would take it a step further and propose that the wrist movement be honed down to a minimum, all the emphasis being concentrated on finger action and rebound only! Again I still feel the need to "perfect" (?!) this "approach"!
It''s a never ending story, is'nt it Alex, this drumming thing of ours! Good luck to you in YOUR drumming endeavors!
Neal Sausen
Neal Sausen Thank you for the thoughtful reply, I only begin to learn the technique, that’s why I am trying to discern all the details. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the whole idea of push&pull techniques is to get two strokes out of just one wrist motion cycle, so finger control alone is a completely different story.
Alex Besperstov Dear Alex; Yes that is true.... One (1) wrist motion but whithin that one wrist motion are TWO (2) finger motions (one - open & one -close). That's why (in my opinion anyway) this makes an excellent Finger"warm up" excerise,
N. S.
PS: please refer to my u-tube video on finger control (" An Overview of finger control, elsewhere on U- Tube. Fingers are a seperate and distinct "study".
Open on one & closed on the & but no difference if closed on the one & open on the & correct? The motion is still the same
Billy Barton Yes Bill, you are correct!
Movements are same, only counting is reversed. You can count the ex. either way but it is still one open motion alternating with one closing motion. Hope this helps.
Neal Sausen.
Can I find a video where Freddy is playing.
My hands keep slipping up on the sticks. What to do? Firmer grip between thumb and index finger?
mr. jinks : Sorry to hear about your grip problem you might try practicing an exercise called “PICK UP’S”!
They’re done very slowly and their quarter notes! basically you start with both hands
In the up position play for Strokes with the right hand and then four quarter notes with Your left hand over and over slowly four strokes per hand with hands starting in the up position! come Straight down to pad and immediately as you strike gently squeeze the thumb and index finger against the stick as you quickly pick the stick back up do not snap to stick it is not a sudden jerky tensioning of the muscles it’s just a rebound but try to pull the stick back up from the wrist joint and the grip and immediately upon striking the drum and pulling the stick back up quickly relax the muscles after the stick returns to its original starting height give yourself plenty of time between each quarter note come down quickly just touch the pad and pull the stick back up quickly from the grip with the four fingers curled loosely around the drumstick and the normal natural position don’t squeeze a stick with the fingers just pluck the stick back up from the grip and the wrist hinge give yourself a few seconds between each quarter note to relax night wrist muscles and arm muscles do this four times with the right hand four times for the left hand! Variation of this exercise is to take the second finger away from the stick slightly quarter of an inch or so and descriptive stick with the family next finger and the third and fourth fingers held gently against the stick remember the second finger is slightly off the stick it doesn’t touch the stick you can put apply a little pressure against the stick with the pinky but most of the quick plucking or pick up action is done with a grip and wrist hinge keep your forearm relaxed and as loose as possible try this for a couple of weeks don’t overdo it disclaimer if you feel any tension or discomfort stop the exercise immediately and let your hands relax then resume the exerciseWith practice you’ll be able to do the exercise for longer periods of time and this will increase the strength of your grip without you becoming stiff but remember through these pick ups this quick plucking of a stick up off the Drum in as relaxed manner as possible relax immediately after returning to stick to the starting height relax the muscles in the hand and wrist and forearm before making the next stroke see if this helps bye-bye!
@@nealsausen4651 Thanks so much! I will try the exercise.
mr. jinks :Good! Just remember to squeeze the stick slightly with the farm at first joint of the index finger on the actual strike and immediately in a relaxed condition pool stick up back off the drum head to the upright position and you should have it do that for about five minutes take a break to another couple minutes don’t overdo this exercise because I can make you Steph if you snap or straight to hard there’sNo snap involved it’s just a quick brushing of the head and turning the ham back up the instant you strike!
Hello, can you tell me the model of drumsticks you are using? Thanks and very interesting video
The sticks I’m using this video or a Vic Firth Scott Johnson models they have the rubber ball on the tip nice and wavy normally I use either a 5-A or a 5-B Of various Makes, Usually Vic Firth or ZILDJIAN sticks are use the two above mentioned types for Drum said playing and the rubber tip stick for practice pad work by the way the Scott Johnson model is a drum Corps model stick! Hope this answers your question and good luck!
@@nealsausen4651 Thnx👊🏿
@@drummah_black_hands No problem thank you! Enjoy
To "clear" up any mis-understanding as to the "name"(?!) given to this technique...."they're ALL good"! "System," "Push-Pull," "Open-Close (tech.)," "Pump" You can call it a "pineapple" if you want to! All I'm saying is that the term "SYSTEM" is the "name" Freddie used all those years ago when he first taught it to me! Just Say'in! love to all.........N. S.
Refer to Marc Bolger video; " The Freddie Gruber Method Stick....".n s
OMG, this guy definitely really looks like Buddy Rich, what an absolute coincidence,
man I wish I got into this when I started 30 years ago. I'm screwed
Christian Wagenseil :Christian you are not screwed at all! You found this video and that’s a big step just take your time relax with it give yourself time with it and you’ll be developing stuff before you even know it! Good luck and remember the old adage”
“BETTER LATE THAN NEVER”!
Neal Sausen Thank you so much Neal
Christian Wagenseil :No problem! Stay with it it’ll work for you!
Thanks, Meatloaf ! :-)
Tim C. : Meatloaf! Are you trying to tell me I’m fat or something LOL
@@nealsausen4651 noo! The camera adds a few pounds, but I would say you're pleasantly ...petite :-)
It was the drumming that reminded me of Meatloaf.. you and him have the same drumming technique :...and side profile!
Good lesson by the way! I'm nearing Steve Gadd territory and this was the last bit I needed to get "over the hump " haha
Tim C. : Tim, OK gotcha! Anyway I hope this stuff works for you! Good luck with it take care and keep Swingin! NEAL
There's a bass drum part in The Grudge from Tool with a similar pattern.
I'm baffled that there are absolutely no videos of Mr. Gruber actually playing.
Freddy stopped playing publicly around 1962. There is at least one video of him on a practice pad.
@@farshimelt Makes no sense. Yet he is viewed as some kind of "guru"? You can find videos on just about any drummer playing. All the ones I see is him just talking philosophy and how to drop the stick. I've never even seen him play on a practice pad....
I don’t wanna beat a dead horse but has ANYONE ever seen Freddy demonstrate his hands?
yeah! I have! And so did all of his other students! Hope that answers your question!
How were his Chops?
Is This pipe band drumming Tech .,, Like John Fisher and Jim Kilpatrick
I do not know if John or Jim play this way or not. All I know is that they are BOTH "Monsters" at what they do! Love and respect to all........ N. S. (10-19-17).
Great Thanks ,, I live in Vancouver BC and get to see these guys play at times also Reid Maxwell ,Scott Robertson and others i always enjoy.It is great that you know some of the Pipe band Drummers .,
squamishfish : yeah I love the 3 "great styles" : Scotch, Swiss, and American styles of rudimental Snare Drumming!
BTW I loveVancouver B. C.!
I've been there many times, I'd love to settle there someday!
N. S.
If you want to know where Fred Gruber was coming from, look no further than Neal. He studied with him for decades. That's a fact, Jack.
Why is it so difficult to find video (or hell, I'd settle for just audio) of Freddie Gruber actually playing the kit?
Sam Robinson : Dunno.... what can I tell ya? There are a few “ boot legs” out there, “ The Band That Never Was”
on Spot Light Records, ( an English Indie label) with Freddie on it. Also some Charlie Parker indie cd’s I’ve seen at Freddie’s house some years ago with Freddie on Drums. He (Freddie) sounded damn good too as I recall.
Drummer J.L.H. : Sorry to hear of your negative experience with Fred. You are not the only one to experience “bad vibes”
with him ! Nor the 1st.! I’ve heard such stories like yours at various times over the years. He was NOT the teacher for everyone! ( but then, who is?!) You had to have a “certain mind set” to get along with him.
I can’t help but wonder what kind of a result you would have gotten if you would have gone ahead and given it 6 mos. or a year or so! I know Don (Ellis) loved Freddie. I had the lesson right after Don
and Fred would always have me “demonstrate” drum technique for him and Don was very into it with Fred.
I was a “witness” to this, what can I say?! Don always thought very highly of Fred. Fred DID play with Buddy De Franco! We know this because Fred is featured in the 1951 issue of the “LEEDY/LUDWIG” Drum Catalouge.... a B n W photo of a young Fred Gruber sitting behind a set of Leedy’s with Buddy standing behind him with his hand on Fred’s shoulder, I have the catalogue. And....there is a photo of Fred on stage with Buddy at the “Blue Note” in N. Y. late 40’s!
So yes Fred did play with various “ heavy weights”! Bud Powell was another artist Fred did gigs around N. Y. with. And he did know Bellson, I knew Louie too and I had several discussions with him (about Freddie) and Louie always spoke very highly about Fred both in regards to his teaching AND his playing. I am well aware that Fred did not always “click” with everyone! There were times I got bugged/ frustrated with him as well! But I stuck it out with him for all those years and Ill tell you what,.... I am so glad I did!
What can I tell ya!
He is the drummer equivalent of Anthony Bourdain. I've never seen freddy play the drums, only talk about them; and I've never seen Bourdain cook a meal.
EconMan : excellent analogy.... and so TRUE!
@@nealsausen4651 Around 1961, Freddie had a Sunday morning breakfast session at a club in East L.A. Dolo Coker was the pianist. Freddy would play the first tune, introduce the trio (I don't remember the bassist) then, invite drummers to sit in. He always played the tune with brushes, nothing fancy or special, just smooth motion and great time and feel. On Gene Stone's recommendation, I took a couple of lessons from Freddie before I left for Europe. At the first lesson, he had me play singles, went to the bathroom and didn't re-appear for 30 mins. I kept playing singles. About a week after the 2nd lesson, I called and told him I was going to Europe in a week. He asked me what I was going to do about my brush playing? I told him, play them the same way I played with sticks. He said, "NO!!!" and hung up. When I returned, 8 yrs. later, I could no longer afford to study with him.
Neal, I know this video is 3 plus years old but, I'm trying to learn the traditional grip left hand playing. The only person that I've seen do and teach
what I'm looking for is Ted Mackenzie, " The Buddy Rich Rudiment Style Book" but he lives in NY. Now he lives in Dallas Georgia, which is 700 miles
away from me in Florida. I live in the Tampa bay area. I want to learn correctly like you are showing on this video. What state do you live in because I
want lessons in person, so in case I have any questions I can ask them right there and I can be watched so I know if I'm continuing to do everything
correct. Please email me asap because I'm not getting any younger. I've played classic rock music since 1975 but, I want out of that restricted shit
playing and style of playing. If I would have learned yours or Freddie Gruber's style of playing, I would have been one of the best drummers around.
I'm not being cocky, just honest. When I am taught something, I put 120% into it. Please contact me asap.
Thank You Very Much Joseph.
P.S. Your playing and video is fantastic...
Thank you so much joseph for your beautiful comment I happen to live in Akron Ohio now I’m a bit north and east of you are eventually I will be offering online lessons but right now I am not set up for this unfortunately! I have taken your comment into account and filed it and when I am ready to start some kind of online teaching I will contact you and we’ll see where things stand in the meantime try to find the best teacher you can in Florida Les De Merle is down there and he’s excellent he’s in Fernandez I believe He is a monster and a monster teacher and I studied with him back in Los Angeles in the 70s he was my teacher for a while just tell him you know me and I highly recommended him to you you could probably find his website online I don’t have that information with me right now sorry about that go online look up les he does teach and he can help you a lot good luck with this Neal
not an expert, but what a cute guy!
???!!!
???!!!
Stick control back of book.
George Meade : T
YES! S C B excellent for finger control tech!
You can see how and why Neil Peart called it quits after 45+ years of drumming, such a demand on the body for pounding the skins daily!
Roy Haynes is 95, playing like he's 35. You can do that if you play and not "pound" the skins daily.
Ever see Gruber play? Me either. Odd.
Marty White : yeah I used to see Freddy play all the time! What’s the big deal! Anyway he made his mark as a teacher not so much as a player! Anything wrong or odd about that?! There are a lot of great teachers out there who are not known as players, That’s just the way it is,, you’ve got teachers and you’ve got players, and then you’ve got both! I don’t get it these remarks from people who just because they never saw someone play they somehow think that person is invalid as a teacher and vice versa! Go figure!
Neal Sausen That's kind of BS. I've seen plenty of videos where he sits behind a kit, but never touches it. I know he played with Parker. It's just odd. Very odd
Marty White Bullshit my ass what the hell are you talking about?! You obviously never saw the Freddy GRUBER I saw and I studied with him every week for over a quarter of a century so I think I have a little more insight then your clinic videos reveal and that’s a no BS and that’s no BS! I think when it comes to FRED GRUBER you defer to me I don’t defer to you!
Chairman Meow No. Have you seen him play? You have not. So fuck off with the troll shit. Moron.
Neal Sausen Don't get bunched. For all his invented greatness, one would assume there'd be a clip of him touching a drum. But no. Did your study with him include walking around the city at all hours of the night while he pontificated about why square framed glasses from the 1970s were super stylish?🖕