How Good Is Elphelt, Really?
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- #fightinggames #guiltygear #guiltygearstrive
Elphelt Valentine is the latest DLC in Guilty Gear Strive. Since she has been out for a while, let us look at how good she REALLY is in Guilty Gear Strive.
0:00 - Intro
0:45 - Offense
18:22 - Defense
23:36 - Neutral
33:13 - Knockdown
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Willingly edited a 40 min vid about Elphelt 💀
pls subscribe (or else)
Very impressed with impartial scientist LK at suppressing Elphelt hate here tbh
Cool video, but you didn't talk about elphelt's main weaknesses at all IMO, which is shocking to me. You barely talked about her actual neutral pokes, hitboxes, and frame data. For example, her f.s is 11f which is about average, and it has good range, but it has almost no disjoint and a huge extended hurtbox, making it very easy to get ch by something like ky f.s which is 10f and has massive disjoint. It's also pretty weak on whiff and block, and only 3f active. The most comparable f.s to elphelt's is sin's f.s, but sin's f.s is more disjointed and has slightly more range than el's, while other f.s's like ky or anji's are all faster startup, faster on whiff, and have better hitboxes as well for just slightly less range.
There's also her 2s, which isn't a low, is 13f startup, has a very small disjoint, tragic range, and is pretty easy to punish on whiff. This move is garbage but it's also extremely important to her kit because it's one of her only neutral tools that beat 6p or low pro's, and its her most active move. You can compare this to Sin 2s, which is also not a low but it's faster, longer, and has a better disjoint. Or to sol's 2s which also isn't a low and is on the shorter side, but is 10f and has crazy good frame data and disjoint.
Then there's her 5h, which has pretty long range, longer than her f.s, and a sizable disjoint. but its range is still pretty normal for an h button, nothing absurd like ramlethal 5h or bridget 5h, but still pretty solid. But it becomes much weaker once you know about it's gigantic extended hurtbox and a very below par disjoint that makes it really weak to 6p at all ranges, and also weak to faster moves like ky f.s or ram f.s that will ch you at a distance. Additionally, her 5h has a whopping 43f total duration, making it possible to whiff punish this move while comatose.
Her k buttons are a bit below par as well, with her 2k and 5k being shorter, more minus on block, worse on hit/ch, and not being able to bait yrc compared to similar 5ks/2ks like johnny 5k/2k, ram 5k/2k, sin 5k/2k etc.
Additionally a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE weakness with elphelt in my opinion is that her conversion ability is extremely poor when you whiff punish. For example, roundstart against ky f.s beats every single option elphelt has roundstart except for 6p. There is one option you could do to beat f.s though, which is to walkback f.s and whiff punish it. But, if you whiff punish someone with f.s, do you know what your reward is? Literally nothing. You aren't in range to 5h, you can't combo into bridal, you cant combo into fireball even, you actually just get nothing. Instead you have to walkback and whiff punish with 5h, which is way harder because it's way slower and if your opponent decides to walkback instead 5h is death on whiff.
So this is where elphelt gets into "dysfunctional" territory in my opinion, because all of her buttons have generally worse frame data and hitboxes on average than every other character's neutral pokes. The best thing about her pokes are the range, but if you try to use that range for whiff punishing, it just either flat out doesn't give you anything on hit or carry a massive amount of risk if you whiff. This makes it so that any spacing that you try to play at as elphelt in neutral you're just inherently in disadvantage, her neutral becomes very awkward midscreen. Even characters like ram who are known for having awkward midscreen conversions at least have dauro and orange wild assault, elphelt's just kinda got nothing in that respect.
Elphelt's offence would have to be really really really really good to make up for these fundamental flaws in her neutral, but it just isn't. Her rekka and bridal have pretty poor oki midscreen and in many matchups it's really hard to run her offence through the opponent's defensive tools. Her rekka is strong ofc especially with meter, but not strong enough to make up with having such a weak neutral.
@@RemiliaFGCbeen playing her since release and god are her weaknesses so much more glaring to her strengths
This might be an unpopular option but I honestly think I’m her current state she’s a bottom 5 character (bottom 3 personally)
LK, may I ask what song is playing in the background on the offense section. Also amazing vid, I love watching your videos.
or elsephelt
I like how this also functions as an Elphelt guide
all his videos are guides lol
pretty much yeah i never thought about using hs after hit confirm. gonna put it into my tool kit
testament mentioned
EATING GOOD TODAY BOYS
People are slowly waking up to Testament i believe
YIPPEE
Oh he FLIIEEEESSES
As a johnny player thank you for making an entire category dedicated to how fucked our character is ❤
when does he mention johnny??
@@Longsword. section in the latter half of the video talking about characters' abilities to dashblock
johnny is the only character who cant
Love this kinda deep analysis about a character. This is great for some of the DLC because they are so new a lot of people don't know this info. Would love this for the other new DLC like Johnny, Bedman?, and maybe like Testament considering there is more discussion about them as well.
I did this for Johnny. I think I started doing this with Bridget, so I've generally been doing this a couple months after character drops, while doing other vids for older characters (there is a testament video)
@@LordKnightfgc LETS GOOOO! Did you do one for Bedman as well? I feel like dropped with little to no discussion.
😢@@LordKnightfgc
What Makes Characters Good in Guilty Gear Strive, Elphelt Edition
Offense
0:45 Does the character have plus moves?
2:05 Does the character have a fast/instant overhead?
3:47 Does the character have a safe 5D and/or can they combo off of it without meter?
4:19 Does the character have a 50/50?
4:40 How fast does the character gain meter (On offense)?
6:53 What does the character get off their throw situation?
7:29 How safe is the character against YRC?
8:06 Does the character have to hit the opponent to win, or can they win from making the opponent block?
12:09 On average, how much damage does the character do?
13:08 What type of Wild Assault does the character have, and how do they use it? (Replaces "How safe is the character against Burst?")
15:17 How good is the character against Deflect Shield? (New)
16:32 How good is the character's Positive Bonus situation? (Soft-Replaces "How good is the character's Wall Break situation?")
Defense
18:22 How fast is the character's fastest button?
18:48 Does the character have a meterless reversal?
19:46 How fast is the character's reversal? (New)
20:46 Does the character's super travel horizontally or vertically?
21:21 How fast is the character's backdash?
22:13 How fast is the character's 6P?
22:57 How fast is the character's jump?
23:13 How fast does the character gain meter (On defense)?
Neutral
23:36 Can the character attack from safe ranges?
25:55 How fast is the character's airdash?
26:11 Does the character have a slow j.H?
28:06 Can the character stall in the air/change their air momentum/trajectory?
28:58 Can the character 50/50 the opponent from neutral?
30:10 Does the character have a burst RC option (aka a neutral skip)?
30:53 How fast is the character's 6P?
31:08 Does the character have ways to prevent the opponent from using their standard neutral tools?
31:53 A) Can the character convert all their hits into combos? B) Can they convert hits into Wall Break without using too many resources?
32:45 Can the character dash and block? (New)
Knockdown
33:22 Can the character win from throw?
34:06 Can the character protect themselves from reversals and mix at the same time?
36:24 Can their good knockdown be looped?
Bless you my guy 🙏
This character took over my previous main, Bedman? I like this character and hope to play her more in the future
I also switched from Bedman to Elphelt. It's been fun, honestly.
Oh snap, you too?
Gotta say, I love having speed again lol
Same! it felt like a really natural switch
Lmao I ALSO switched from bed to elphelt. I was so tired of having to work so hard every single match
16:00 bookmark :)
I've been hoping for Dizzy, but looking at Elphelt (and several other characters) I wonder what they would do to her to simplify her. Looking at Asuka, they might could still make her complicated. But also looking at Asuka, I'm not sure how good she'll turn out.
I think Zoey from Grandblue VS is what I envision Strive Dizzy.
I think the bubble will be lost but she should keep the pillar and the fish summons.
They are going to gut her like literally ever returning character,it's been 3 seasons and you'll are still hoping for a miracle 😂.
@HellecticMojo Then they might as well not bring back Dizzy,lol.
Plus knowing Strive, we are probably only going to get one version of fish,ice spike,fire pillar,and if we are lucky ice and fire spear. The worst part about simplifying Dizzy moevlist,is that from xrd she has alot of special moves.
Ice and fire spear,ice and fire wheel,fire and water bubble,2 ice fish,2 fire fish,1 D fish,ice spike,and fire pillar. How the hell are you going to cut any of this without making the character look like a bastardization of her former self 😂.
The only way is to change Dizzy playstyle all together like they did Testament,Ramlethal, Elphelt,Baiken, Sin and e.t.c.
At that point why don't they just make a new character
I hope they simplify that damn character design
I legit can’t deal with players that spams all her moves, especially grenade. I block, and i get mix into oblivion. I know the timing for her rekkas, but that grenade is the death of me.
Grenade can be beat by jump grab if you read it. And rekka by 5p or 6p if they loop or didn't start with a S/HS normal.
But yes I totally agree, regardless of me knowing how to beat it, it's difficult to react to and I don't understand why elphelt is considered bad lol
If you hit her the nade goes away and she can never go into nade on block
The thing a lot of these kinds of videos don’t cover is how certain character traits and situation strengths are vastly different at different skill levels of the game.
It’s one thing for the consensus to be that Elphelt in Strive is mid, or that there’s gaps, or that her neutral is average, but this is incredibly relative for the vast majority of players where it might as well be theory and speculation. Tekken 8’s new system mechanics and general "mathy" feeling put this into stark light for me and I decided, someone who has dipped into Celestial in Strive of all games with Bedman of all characters, to drop certain games when I notice that overcoming cheap (in execution) 1 dimensional knowledge checks with narrow answers is the difference between upper and mid-high levels of play.
I thought Strive was going to avoid this, there’s a lot of this mathematically balanced stuff out there at the moment that just feels really nasty and unnatural to me but Elphelt fits this category imo which makes me a little sad. She’s overtuned in a pretty weird way because yes there’s obvious counter play, but when you can visualise the decision tree or a dev white board after a single fight I feel there’s a major issue in design - particularly when that counter play isn’t a solution that makes a fight feel more dynamic or opens up other tactics. She feels like a character the devs filled in mathematical gaps not yet occupied by other characters instead of any kind of natural feeling archetype or character theme - kind of highlighted by LK in this video not settling on where she sits gameplay wise. Feels weird to me.
This is all 100% ok btw and Strives wildly varied cast is why It’s such a fun game to watch and play (and how she interacts at the highest level is super interesting if a bit cringe), but the above I don’t see talked about much with this character or in general.
babe wakeup new LK video just dropped
Elphelt is probably the most "I know how to do mixups and block strings because I can do half quarter circle" character, seriously tho she gave me more options in pressuring opponents than anji ever can
You've clearly never fought a good anji. Anji is really, really good at Yomi because anything you can do against one option he might take, a different option bests it. and if you ever make the mistake of poking in neutral you are going to lose 60% of your health if the anji actually knows his combos.
Elphelt loops pressure while anji cashes out with less mixups but way higher dmg
Wtf is going on with the audio at 35:00 I thought I was having a stoke
Thank god someone else mentioned it
Random sfx montage?
32:55 "There's only one character who can't dash block." *Potemkin exists*
Pretty good character. Now the real problem is the players... The gooning, glazing and downplaying is unreal.
"the gooning" what were you expecting?
@@deathbringer9893 tf you mean "what was I expecting" Im not daisuke I aint make this shit
@@hunterkinsella5303 a hot female anime character is added and did not expect the gooning?
@@deathbringer9893 just because a degenerate act is common does not mean its not degenerate lol
I call it as I see it
@@deathbringer9893nah to be fair we’re way, way worse than most other female character mains.
i've been hard maining her since her release, and what i can say is that she feels decent. strong tools, incredible knockdown and oki, and perhaps the highest robbery factor in the game.
that said, decent isn't enough in this current patch of the game. the problems in her kit are extremely exploitable and completely change how you have to play against any particular _player,_ not just character.
she's not as bad as people say she is, but i don't think she's that good and could stand to see some mild qol changes, similar to sin (though she's better than sin was when he launched)
....call me crazy, but I think you *should* have to play differently against different players? In fact, I'd argue that if you can play a character exactly the same against every player without variation, that character is overtuned and needs a nerf.
@benterhune8563 you're right for the most part, but I mean in the sense that her offense is so matchup dependant that even subtle differences in how somebody plays and defends completely changes how you have to play.
not a horrible thing on its own, but it adds many overlapping layers of inconsistency to the character.
@@benterhune8563 >>that character is overtuned and needs a nerf.
bro, please snap to reality
@@Skalkerifywhat they said makes complete sense though? if a character can just flowchart their way through every matchup they probably need to be changed
Pot will always be the King of Robberies(& Glue)
Thanks, LK.
whats that frame data display and how do i get it?
I know this is an elphelt video, but does anyone have any like general tips for guilty gear? I started playing like 2 weeks ago and ive picked up ramlethal as my main.
I know shes one of the best characters in the game but i feel like im missing something important cuz im always getting my ass beat when playing with friends. Majority of the time i feel like im blocking most of the match
There are vids on this channel from launch/S2/Xbox release if that's what you're looking for
Death by blocking is probably my favorite win condition in fighting games. Love that oppressive style.
Shes is BROKEN!!!!
she's so cheap
So what ive gathered here is that she's suuuuper matchup dependent. Leo and Ky are harder than normal but you have options, it's hard to do anything against Chip, and Sol is a complete nightmare. BUT against everyone else, she's a very strong rushdown character.
Whats the song that plays around the 19:00 mark?
Conquest - Fire Emblem Awakening
Honestly I really wanted to come back to Strive but now I can't because she's in the game 😭😭😭💀
Shes entirely different from Xrd, you actually get to play the game, her pressure isn't infinite, there is actual counterplay to her oki and her blockstrings are all full of gaps. Also no unblockables which is one of the things strive was 100% right about getting rid of. Only time my ability to block should be gone is when I'm in hitstun.
Lets goooo
“Big” gap on the s hit💀
I think the problem with meterless reversals is specifically characters who can use it to punish you for taking your turn, its almost like a WWA when Sol, Ky, or Sin reversal you when they’re minus lmao
It's a big part of the design ethos of making a game built around minus frames. It's a huge risk and usually not necessarily huge reward without spending resources. Yomi is part of the fun of fighting games too imo
calling dp WWA is kinda wild ngl lol
@@LordKnightfgc what can i say, im wild on the assault😎
@@LordKnightfgci am biased as fuck but resources taken into account, i consider dp’s to be just as dishonest if not more dishonest than current wwa
12:41 "She won't exceed doing a lot of damage"
40% HP gone, half screen corner carry + wall break from a 6P
Strive rewired brain
Jokes aside, I think her damage is in the "average" side (for a game like Strive) due to how accessible nearly all her tools are and how easy and frequently you can open up opponents.
Ironically, I hate her as much as I do in Xrd. While she is certainly "more fair" to fight against, the super easy accessibility on a lot of her strengths (even more braindead than in Xrd) makes me roll my eyes a lot.
Yeah she feels pretty cringe to fight. I also eye roll a lot in my matches with her.
She is pretty good, but not good enough to beat Baiken and thats currently my dilemma.
Like trying to pull from niche cast members for examples on this one. Try and educate about more than just Elphelt, very clever teaching method
now, i knew close slash -> close slash for the most part is nowhere near air tight
but i cannot believe i have been letting Axl and Faust hit the fakest pressure in the game on me since Strive's release... For the duration of Strive's lifespan as of this comment i have been letting those two crank up my risc with several close slashes in a row, goodness.
Half health on unoptimized combos isn’t good damage to you?? :/
Would've been better if he showed an optimal combo, but generally I've been seeing her do damage that's about average, nothing nutty like Nago Sol and Goldlewis
@@QuantemDeconstructor Yeah it shouldn't be on the same level as Goldlewis and Sol. Goldlewis doesn't have the range, fast normals, or reka mixup potentials. But she can take off half your health with a combo, that's big to me.
far from half health lol
@@Xirbtt true, I'm not sure how strong she actually is since I'm poopy at the game, but definitely not a weak character
@@JohnDoe-nf6yk 12:51 Are you sure about that? 12:59 "Without proper routing" and still almost got to 50%.
RAAAAAAAAAAAHHH
32:53 um actually 🤓 LK nago and potemkin can't dash block either.
When I saw the Elphelt gameplay trailer I said she was going to be a solid, upper half of mid-tier character but would feel totally oppressive at low levels of play where people don't know how to handle mix. Seems like I was right.
Her rekka mix is unreactable though.
@@kalecraft8906 Good offense is supposed to be unreactable, in one way or another. That's what makes prediction, conditioning, and RPS so important.
She doesn't go in as well as other rushdowns, and her mix can be punished if she guesses wrong. She's not that great.
@@hagoryopi2101how can she be punished if she guesses wrong? if she guesses wrong she can simply end her rekka with H, and if she guesses wrong with her grenade, its still her turn. so idk what you're talking about, her offense is entirely safe unless she decides to go into rekka from like 5k or something which literally nobody does nor have ant reason to do
@adamakii the only gapless string she has is c.s>5h>bridal/gunshot, reversal through it or 6p
Yea she's probably around the middle of the top tiers and mid tiers. I mean the things she can do so far is already surpassed a lot of characters especially how safe her mix while there are still other characters like bedmen still struggle to keep up a safe pressure unless they got meters
I think the problem elphelt has is similar to the problem axl has
It's not that she's bad, it's just that other characters that are better than her does what she does which leads to a lot of people saying she's bad by default
I guess that gets at what the definition of “bad” is. Is a character bad when another character does what they do better, or is a character bad when they don’t work properly and/or are low tier, a la season 2 Sin? I think it’s subjective which definition you want to use, which is why you’ll often hear very different opinions on a character like Elphelt. Competitively speaking, she’s “bad” because other characters who are similar to her and better make her mostly irrelevant in tournament play. However, when it comes to character strength and what she can do, she is at least playable and has strong strengths that can overcome her weaknesses, so she’s decent if kinda weak. It’s interesting to think about what “bad” means, and imo there’s not really a wrong definition. One just needs to clarify which definition they are using before stating it.
@@Resener1 It's the difference between "bad" and "obsolete". If the character that made another character obsolete ceased to exist, the obsolete character would have a spot in the meta.
This happened to a LOT of characters in the end of Street Fighter 5's life cycle: Luke came out and was just objectively the best Shoto/Shoto-Adjacent character, the only Shoto that Luke didn't make obsolete was Ken, but if Luke didn't exist then all the characters he pushed out of the meta would have been just fine mid-to-high tier characters.
so in other words... she's bad. lmfao.
El's problem is that I-NO is basically her but better
I honestly believe that Elphelts strength is locked behind how good the player is at mixing up. If you can’t mic for shit you’re going to get robbed every time. But if you’re a mix machine El becomes a nightmare even for opponents with a dp.
I think she's really good she just struggles with neutral. Some of her oki isn't great. You aren't blocking every mix though. You gettin hurt.
25:50 isn't she super threatening with bridal express at that range?
not without meter
For me Elphelt is as good as the person playing them. She tends to do worse in the hands of very repetitive players that don't use all their options, instead favoring the same auto-pilot route over and over.
I'm personally a bedman? Player and i wanted to know why is bedman? Considered low tier?
The name really makes your comment confusing lol
Bad defense, slow buttons, and pressure is very intractable in most situations. Once the bed gets going on offense and has the error loops in play it seems almost impossible to get out of. Getting to that situation is quite difficult though
i play him. loses neutral pretty bad, pokes occupy good space but have bad frame data, you get hit out of your far range pokes on whiff pretty often, or sometimes the opponents pokes just get to you before yours even comes out lol. you have to rely more on wild assault than other characters which is not a good place to be in.
offense and oki that you'd think is great, is actually more gimmicky and gets blown up by intelligent use of faultless defense, negating a lot of your mixup attempts that didn't always have amazing reward anyway. if the opponent doesn't use faultless, this character may as well be top tier, but unfortunately that's not realistic of anybody who plays well, so you basically just become wack button man.
all that said, i still have fun with him, and if you feel the same, don't let tiers stop you, enjoy the character. he's a lot better than on release, he went from bottom 1 to bottom something or other. used to have no reward for landing down jab, now has easy confirm into beyblade, which is great. j.D is faster, 2.HS is better on block, 6P anti airs way better, install super carries over on wall break letting you keep your actual advantage state, since install makes a lot of your advantage actually valid even against faultless. various attacks had their properties improved, basically! still sux, but atleast actually plays the game now.
Weak(ish) defensive options, (mostly) honest neutral in a game with a lot of wild shit in it, and basically requires the corner before you can start pulling out crazy shit. Personally, I think Bedman? is the most slept on character in the game, and has gotten some really important incrememental buffs. It's a character that really demands you outplay your opponent in every stage, and most characters have something uniquely powerful they can blindly leverage for advantage, so compared to some grade-A nonsense like what HC or Ram can pull, Bedman? is overlooked
Only weebs put in that annoying question mark
early gang!
I don't really play gg strive much anymore as a casual . But I will say , shootout to Lord knight cuz alot of what u said about determining what makes a character gd or not was dope . Offense, defense , how gd in the neutral are they and what mechanics they may have over others . I need to apply that to any fgc games I do play.
I don't need to watch this video to know that even if she's declared good, bad or mediocre I'm still going to be equally as annoyed every time I play against her. It's something about Strive that no other Guilty Gear has that simply makes me hate every matchup
Last part completely gave you away. No guilty gear play would say it
@@user-cc3ef7qh1x I don't care if GGST "doesn't have matchups" and I frankly don't care about its depth. It's completely unenjoyable to me and I much prefer Xrd and Blazblue, even if I have a shit ton of hours in Strive
@@noima13 ok
@@noima13Same here brother.
At least you're honest lmao
So, nerf Testament. Got it, thanks LK!
How good is Elphelt ?
She’s a bout a 7 good
Me watching this With no knowledge of Guilty gear whatsoever
I love pink musician girls that people complain about
For the logically sound? Shes ok.
For the rest of the community? It's literally unbeatable.
Infinite pressure.
Nothing you can possibly do.
There’s nothing we can do
I fucking hate Elphelt. Easily my weakest personal matchup
Ay ay ay why u blink so much my guy
Not my elphelt
Not very
How good is Elphelt? As a character, 7 out of 10, as waifu material 1000 out of 10.