Colorado paid pilots, mechanics $2.3 million last year to fly a firefighting helicopter that hasn't
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2024
- For more than a year now, Colorado taxpayers have paid for a pilot and mechanic to come to the state and fly a helicopter that isn’t actually allowed to fly yet.
The Firehawk helicopter is a converted Black Hawk helicopter that's supposed to be a powerful new tool to fight fires in Colorado. In 2021, Democratic Gov. Jared Polis signed a bill authorizing the state to spend $24 million to buy one.
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Reporters forgot the story was the 2 million paid to pilots who never flew. Delays in construction of the helos is normal.
Did they actually pay the pilots or just bill for their salary??
@@SegoManthey paid for a contract for Coulson to pay them. Basically the state owns the helicopter while Coulson pays the pilots and mechanics.
They had to have a contract which only does 1 year at a time but do to the manufacture having issues the helicopter was delayed
but they probably kept saying next week it will be done like any company nowadays
Looking for scandal where there is now is not news. We will need these helicopters when the fires start. These reporters should find something else to gripe about. These useless reporter is the one overpaid!
Anything in aviation costs 100x of what an equivalent would be in cars. So it's like 20000 for 2 cars
You're trying to excuse the fact that they have pissed away $44 million and the taxpayers have gotten exactly ZERO from it!
You see the video of the zip-lock bag half full of aviation bushings that are being sold for 2 million? Insane!
@@Humboldtfarms oh yeah that's probably a deal.
@@HumboldtfarmsYou’ve got your numbers WAY off…
and anything that involves democrats / liberals always end is fraud, waste and abuse
Some things are beyond your control. If they hadn't put the pilots and maintenance workers under contract when they did, to ensure their availability, and the helicopter had been delivered on time, this story would have been written about a $25-million helicopter sitting unused.
$50 million for two helicopters plus maintenance.
And neither one has been used.
Why are they talking about just one of them?
Actual bargain for two straight up Black Hawks, with fire kit a steal. Firehawks are a new version of Blackhawk, will take time and go over budget before reaching IOC.
Because the second one hasn’t been paid for or delivered it’s a deposit and a queue in the factory they committed too
So sue the vendors , assuming that is ,the maintenance and pilot contract was written up and dated based on a promised aircraft delivery date , force majeur excepting . If that was not the case , and the provider only gave a provisional delivery date then what dumbass signed the maintenance contract for an aircraft that didn't currently exist ?
When you go to a mechanic... Did they sign contract on when it will be fixed? Lmao
The flipside of that is a hit piece on why the helicopter was finally delivered two years late and the state still doesn't have people to fly or maintain it.
It's just tax dollars, not like they have to answer to a CEO or board of directors.../s
Don't let the facts get in the way of a news story!
@mineown1861 in normal aviation yea but experienced fire crews are in short supply they probably didn’t have a choice but to book years out I’d bet they signed that contract not long after they bought the fire hawk allocation they should’ve sublet the pilots out to another state or outfit to recoup there cost and train there own in the down year instead of paying a Canadian fire crew to mill around the hanger do the recall maintenance and mandatory training
The Firehawks for LACoFD and CalFire are spectacular. Even more so with trained pilots and NVG ops allowing for night drops.
Ask any pilot, rushing to get a build done is not ideal. Just like firefighting the priority in aviation is safety. This news clip is slightly misleading…
I don't think it's misleading at all. We learned that CO has spent nearly $50M on an expensive press conference backdrop that took some company 3 years to manufacture.
No helicopter should take 3 years to manufacture and expecting a quicker turnaround is not "rushing to get a build done"... it's holding a company and our government accountable...
@@brendangalios1961 The news makes it sound like they are ready to fly and just aren’t. And the gov never does anything fast or in the correct order. Putting a pilot in contract well before completion was obviously a stupid move.
@@brendangalios1961 Ummm... part of those three years were absolutely impacted by supply chain. And it does take years to complete helicopters.
@@Look_What_You_Did Does it? A ship, sure. But this is a rebuild that should not take more than a year even with supply chain issues. This is now taken 3 plus years, AND even after the first flight it may have major issues before lifting off for a second flight? How long is it taking for other orders to be finished?
@@brendangalios1961 It's kinda worse, they bought 1, hired a company to hire the crew, then, even though it wasn't delivered on time, they got so excited that they decided to buy another one. "It took so long to deliver my car that I decided to order another one from the same dealer! Man it's gonna be great if they ever deliver it!"
The people were hired because the helicopter was supposed to start working. The delays are caused by the manufacturer therefore the manufacturer should pay lost productivity. This is barely news
It’s not real money, it’s Government money.
You mean taxes...
Who's family member runs coulson aviation?
Actually they’re mega republicans
@@mvelilla12 They're based out of British Columbia, go see your shrink and let them know your TDS is flaring up.
Say want you want about them, but the firefighting aviation service has done a lot of work fighting forest fires in Canada and part of the US.
There a Canadian outfit lol no one in Colorado they couldn’t get out of the contract because fire crews have to be booked in advance because there high in demand
@Doubie. They're, not there.
The irony is that for the money you’ve paid and the time you’ve waited you could have bought 2 Canadair Cl-415’s. A machine designed from the ground up to fight fires.
But "Firehawk" sounds so much more awesome. I'm sure they have a reason.
not with how Canada is being run currently they are being so self destructively that they just may sell the state a defective product and call its "free euthanasia"
Wrong . The cost of of purchasing and maintaining a CL415 is much greater the your estimate .
Yeah, but the problem is that there is no one on the procurement committee whose wife's cousins friends ex's sister in law 's second husband's first wife's kids boyfriend will benefit.....
Obviously you're cluless
two dudes that never owned an aircraft
Sounds like local news trying to get Regional Emmy, aa opposed to factual reporting. This isn't a controversy, it's often how contracts work with new aircraft, civilian and military.
So piss away our tax dollars cause that's the Norm? Are you okay? Don't you want change?
@tdub3366 It's how new programs of this size and complexity work. You haven't a clue what your talking about. Get educated on how procurement and development work. Bye.
@@sandbridgekid4121 it’s people like you that allow the government to get away with wasteful spending and corruption! Bye-bye
@@sandbridgekid4121 so let's not innovate and be efficient? That's why Japan can build a high speed rail across the country in less than 3 years and you guys can't deliver a helicopter in the same time. Go kick rocks lol.
@@sandbridgekid4121if the company signed a one year contract it shouldn’t take 3 years to complete. But it’s a government contract so they know that there are no repercussions, they will just continue to drag their feet and still get paid.
In the meantime, Coloradans didn't have to experience huge wildfires. Kyle, are you suggsting we go out and start a couple of huge wildfires?
Colorado had a town wiped off the map just 2 or 3 years ago.....look it up
It's called the Boulder fire!
Maybe if we actually implemented proper range management techniques (logging , prescribed burns and beetle mitigation) we would not have these mega fires..
Keep electing fools to decide what needs to be done with your money Colorado. SMH
Stupid media! Just does not grasp that there is a lot to converting these helicopters and starting up a program like this!
Speaking of stupid. Why would you hire a pilot and a mechanic while the helicopter is still undergoing conversion?
@@foghornleghorn8536 training for the pilots on how to fight fires and the mechanics needed to put the helicopters together.. lol
@@foghornleghorn8536its part of the contract that once its signed theres no backing out. Unlike cars where in California you have a 2 day cool off period to return the car if you pay for that contract.. in contracts like this there is no such thing. Once your committed your committed
@@1234crevis You don't need a pilot or a mechanic for a helicopter that hasn't even been delivered. The aircraft is being converted to fire fighting duty by a company called United Rotorcraft. The mechanic being hired has nothing to do with the aircraft until it's part of the CAL FIRE fleet.
@@foghornleghorn8536 the mechanics are converting the helicopter into a firefighting helicopter yes I understand you need Mechanics for maintenance but it said they were making the helicopter into a fire helicopter because right now it is not ready for firefighting so the mechanics payment is that and not paying mechanics that are sitting around in an empty hanger the payment for mechanic is going to California to build the helicopter. Also if you have a new helicopter you're going to have a new pilot that would need training that would take maybe a year maybe two especially when you're talking about firefighting...but one will be in the air this week...
Pilots get paid for doing nothing?
Contact pilots can. So can pilots that are “on call” but don’t get called.
Just like a tow truck driver or on call nurse.
Even when nobody calls for a tow truck or needs a nurse, they still get paid just for being available because of their contract.
It costs money to tell any licensed professional to go home but stay ready and available because as soon as the phone rings you need to run for the door and come to work.
So while you say the pilot did nothing, the pilot would probably say he was ready and willing 24/7 but the phone never rang.
Was the family vacation, other possible work experience and relatives funeral in another state he had to miss in order to keep himself available for the year worth nothing?
Not like he could work another job while and be on call under contract for them.
Would you expect trained helicopter pilots with up to date credentials to be sitting around homeless?
Many would be if they didn’t get paid for “doing nothing”sitting around on call. 👊
@@jaxturner7288 Right, but they didn’t need to be hired at all three years before the aircraft was ready. You could wait until six months before you take delivery and then start the hiring process.
There's not even a pilot! The contractor responsible for hiring crew for a helo that wasn't ready made 2.5M just to exist for a year while the manufacturer pissed around with airframe certification and engine recalls.
If I was a Coloradan I'd be mad, and I'd also wonder if these helos are going to be reliable once they're certified.
@@jaxturner7288 Yeah, the difference is the tow truck wasn't serviceable, so the driver didn't do a damn thing.
@@TheGrobe
They bought the helicopter 3 years ago. They hired the operating company and team last year -2023, because the expectations were that the equipment would be delivered and ready to use in 2023.
N613PL is not registered.
Sounds like the state should bill the manufacturer the cost for the crew and overruns due to delays caused by them.
I'm not sure the biggest controversy should be purchasing the aircraft. The controversy should be the contract to Coulson that didn't allow backing out of it.
I’m pretty certain that if you were my tenant and you signed a contract with me and then six months into the lease, you said something about backing out of it we’d have to talk about it in court
So the people who own that business should be left on the hook. The companies who are behind should be held accountable.
yea if i had to spend that type of money building something i wouldnt let you back out of it either and leave me on the hook for millions. clearly you have never run or owned a company before
Tell us you know nothing about contracts and aviation without telling us 😂😂😂😂
This sounds like one situations where a politician hooks a buddy up on tax payer money and everyone acts like they can't do anything about it
Time to blacklist the company creating the delays.
Over 50 million dollars sitting in a hanger! Stupidity at its highest level! What's wrong with fitting some national guards helicopter with water tanks! I don't understand!😢
We should next time buy a helicopter that's already built
This something that is easy to get mad about but hard to fix. We have all had things like this happen in our own lives on smaller scale. For example: I hired movers and rented a truck. Movers showed up , but the truck was canceled by the rental place. I got a full refund for the truck rental, but was still out the cost of movers.
The oddest thing was ordering a second one, before fixing the issues with the first.
From an engineering standpoint. The timeline of delivering the second one makes more sense. Since all of the engineering, design, and certification process has been done for the aircraft (which is what takes the most time), all they have to do to make the second one is build it.
From the customers standpoint, ordering another won't be a mistake, the company has a reputation for making these fire hawks as an extremely high quality product. And their past customers have loved them so much that they kept ordering more. Calfire has ordered 10+ of these over many years.
Politicians are like a 16 year old girl with daddy’s credit card.
Follow the Money Trail who took a bite small or big.
The first year of operating costs is always a wash in any new endeavor...
This is what it looks like when people talk about something they know nothing about. It is common to get things in place before delivery of an aircraft. Who do you think is managing that delivery and build? It’s often the pilots and maintenance team who spec it out and work with the manufacturer. The other thing that is not mentioned is that there is often something in the contract that has a date the aircraft must be delivered by. If the date is not made, the manufacture has to provide a credit to the buyer. This can go into the millions. So they likely got that money back. So probably no real story here.
Why do we see fire fighting helicopters all over the world in action and our state is reinventing the wheel with this thing?
Government logic, no lawsuits for manufacturers to pay losses? No consequences for reimbursement of taxpayers losses? No fiscal responsibility!
Oh you mean Democrat politics. We have watched this happen to Colorado over the past 20yrs with our Dem government.
@@scoutdogfsr dnccp
Make sure you pay your taxes!
A contract with no pause button, who wrote it, totally useless idea, they could have pump all kinds of fire fighting trucks....
What a shoddy hit piece. Did you not ask why a pilot and mechanic were contracted for 2023 in the first place or was the answer just not sensational?
They purchased to highly customized aircraft and the reporter thinks the just get handed off the shelf. The issue of pay for the pilot was explained. They entered into a contract. They were OBLIGATED to pay it or likely be sued for breach or default. If they had waited until the helicopter was ready, then they wouldn’t have had a qualified pilot and the story then would have been how tax payer money spent for helicopter with no pilots.
Putting fires out stops Big Wood from being able to jack the prices of lumber back up again
Kind of like owning a boat but worse😂
Americans need to wake up about taxes and why you give 50% of your check for wasted BS
The State should then sue the provider of the helicopter for the loss and failures of the provider.
Buying one off equipment takes a lot of time , and states have to pay first before get any equipment. This is bad reporting.
And nothing will be done. Next story please.
Whenever a gov't guy says "it's complicated", you should deep drill audit the whole deal.
The only problem here is the pilots being paid. Those machines have to be converted to civilian government use, they were previously military property. It takes time to get them up to new standards and the only problem I see is the 2.3m contract for pilots and mechanics that aren’t needed. Who gave the okay to get pilots before the choppers were ever even getting worked on?
Meanwhile, California spent over $3.7 billion on wildfire suppression in 23-23! The majority of that cash was all aviation.
Right now it's not an asset
There are many other things that $44 Million dollars could do for direct fire prevention.
So, who's the clown that wrote the contract????? Has he/she been brought to task?
It's so complicated that they can't figure out, maybe you shouldn't hire anybody to fly something that isn't even built yet?
Could have leased a sky crane for a whole lot less for many years for that price.
its not an asset, its a liability, it never was and never will be an asset
Yeah and my Colorado Tax return is now 20 days late. What are we doing here?
Create contracts that have payments based on milestones. Things like an engine recall may be out of scope, but any Coulson-controlled delays would be covered.
There are plenty of firmer or even retired military pilots in Colorado that flew a version of the UH 60 Black Hawk.
Yes but that means a veteran would be given an opportunity. Can't have that. Polis needs to train and employ an illegal immigrant before any American, let alone a vet.
Jus sayin. This country doesn't support the vets, why else would vets be ignored while illegals get the red carpet treatment.
I guess I should have stated that I agree with you though.
They bought a CALFIRE unit that should tell you everything you need to know
They need to immediately bring in consultants from the California High Speed Rail Authority to get teach them how to timeline a project and bring it to completion.
If the delays were caused by the manufactor out of contract then they need to seek damages from the manufacturer.
Gov spending sucks but this is kind of how aviation goes. 2.3 million to lock in pilots and maintainers who are ready when the bird is, a relative drop in the bucket for what this will save if it prevents a single fire.
Harry Stamper: what’s this a plastic ice cream scooper?? (Throws out the rotor brake).
There is nothing wrong with CO buying those choppers and putting a crew vendor under contract. But there should have been a performance clause in the contract, so when delivery is delayed - for whatever the reason - the manufacturer should have felt the pain, so to speak.
As suggested, if the crew is under contract, CO should have tried to get the cost reduced to a 'stand-by' basis, or hired them out to other jurisdictions, even it that means fighting bush fires in 'Strayia.
A collective shrug of the shoulders on part of CO's governmental officials is not what the taxpayers of the state have a right to expect.
$50 MILLION of Tax Payer money that will never fly. Sounds about right for Government Spending....
Bureaucracy at its finest
These people have no clue what it means to build something custom.
Never mind that toilet paper wasn’t always on the shelf throughout some of these times.
Wonder why the (crappy) contract requires the state to pay when the vendor/seller fails to perform and meet their end?
I'm sure there is no steak dinners. Vegas vacations or kickbacks that are involved...........
The bigger question is did the pilots get paid or was just their wages collected and pocketed by the co???????
How and WHY would you sign a contract for a pilot and mechanic 'BEFORE" the helicopter is even allowed to fly?? I know, to line someone's pocket!!!!
The "contract" to buy the helicopter should of held the builder responsible if not delivered on time as agreed! There is logistics involved that need to be put in play before the aircraft is delivered, like crews, parts, training, people moved, administration paper work? So if it is not delivered as promised, then the builder should pay those cost until the aircraft is operational!
You can thank policker for nothing,he's out of control with taxpayers dime!
Leave the firefighters alone. Muckrake some where else.
Should not have the contract signed until you had the aircraft
Contract is a contract don't like it well don't set the terms and have someone agree to it if you are okay with holding up your side of it
They should've just hired pilots and mechanics.
Honestly i dont understand why they didnt make sure the helicopter was ready first before getting the pilot and mechanic
I’m in California and our Cal Fire Blackhawks are awesome. The markings on the helicopter in question are interesting. It appears to be a Cal Fire helo formerly based at Moffett Field, in the Silicon Valley. So that would suggest that this was a completely up-and-running machine that California sold to Colorado. If that’s true then why hasn’t it flown since it arrived?
Helicopters are amazing tools But do they have what it takes to fight fires
Lol, meanwhile LAPD, uses thier bird for anything.
Don't blame the mechanic or the pilot they are doing what they do . Anything aviation is expensive. Just 2 days ago a senator held up a bag of 6 bushings for a fighter jet 90000$ . The reason is because they are good quality.
Required to fulfill my ass, somebody dropped the ball. This might be obsolete before it ever fights a fire. Not to mention they did it again. You might want to see what kind of home improvements/ vacation homes, etc those in charge have availed themselves thusly. Smells fishy.
Sounds like a BREECH of
CONTRACT to me, and DESERVES a ReFund🤣🤣
😡😡😡glad I do not live
in CO
About 4 years ago I off loaded two helicopter by crane from Poland in Decatur Texas to be assembled tested before sending them to California for cali-fire to fight fires
Since the helicopter isn't ready, then the contract is void.
Thats not how contracts work. You’d actually have to read the contract to determine that.
Perfect example of govt doing what govt does. Waste our money.
Then fire hawk should give a rebate to cover that cost of their issues. If the helicopter was not airworthy that’s on fire hawk unless Cal fire hired people without any airworthiness guarantee from fire hawk. The idea and equipment are not the problem and I’m sure an agreement could have been reached on postponing the contract because no services would have been rendered because you did not have any of the equipment. I honestly think the AG should investigate this because someone caused the public to lose a stupid amount for nothing.
ohhhh If y'all only knew the rest of the story! a UH-60 on the civilian market thats been outfitted for firefighting is around $5-7 Million. Colorado tax payers watching their tax dollars be spent paying a company in another state to screw them over. Also the whole concept that Colorado needs its own helicopters when there are plenty of civilian contractors can fill that roll. This is also why Colorado is paying contractors to fly and maintain the Firehawks. Hire pro's to do the job. Why not let them use their own equipment while they do it and It saves the state a lot of money.
That's known as careful planning and forethought. Or, the extreme lack thereof.
You expect less from KommieRado??
Maybe if we actually implemented proper range management techniques (logging , prescribed burns and beetle mitigation) we would not have these mega fires..
$50,000,000 for nothing.
If they're getting paid, make them come in and the pilot can fly a desk and the maintenance can maintain a clean floor.
Believe it or not, this is actually pretty cheap, for what seems like heavy modifications and alterations
Lol.. in the UK raf we had several chinook fitted for special operations missions... yet in the war on terror we couldn't use them to help Americans because the manufacturer wouldn't give us access to the codes we needed ..
There will always be wildfires. Infact there will only be more as temps warm. So it'll get used for its purpose eventually
Like Washington paid a lot of money for super tanker to stop fires and they never use it
$50 million US for x2 helicopters, including role equipment I assume…? Too much! 8 maybe…something not adding up. Pilot here, who has flown fires…🤔
Reminds me f when my dad won a helicopter in a card game. It was fun, and everything, but we didn't have anywhere to park it. So dad just tied it to a tree out front, and left it idling.
Why in the earth would you purchase 2 firehawks then pay a contractor to fly them just sign a multi year contract with the contractor to provide 2 firehawks & crew. 😊
better off buying the Airtractor , They could have had 8 AT Fireboss quicker and less cost
$200 Billion has been to the ukriane to waste. Thats 100,000 fire hawks
Fixed wing SEAT would cost less and be more productive
WE PAY LESS FOR A SUPER YACHT PARKED IN SAN FRAN BAY. Sorry for the ALL CAPS. This also isn't Fallout so yeah no caps excepted.
It sounds like a helicopter building school 😂
What do people think it’s just going to to fix/build itself? I don’t see any problem with hiring a pilot and a mechanic to work on a helicopter or two. I’m willing to bet the pilot is wrenching in on the chopper as well under the supervision on the A and P mechanic. There is a lot of real corruption and theft going on in government, congratulations you managed to find what appears to be a honest and cost effective program. Trust me it is a lot more expensive to take an aircraft to a shop and these days if might take months or even years before they can even start such a project.
Did nobody ask if the helicopter was ready to enter service when they created the contract? Politics is what caused this, not the helicopter, not the delays, not the recalls. Politicians trying to look good did stuff without thinking and now the taxpayers are paying more than taxes for it.
they wanted highly experienced crews to fly and maintain these AC, not knowing when the AC would be ready to fly, kind of the price of doing this business,