The Dragon Lady Trope - Reclaiming Her Power
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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East Asian women onscreen have long been haunted by the figure of the Dragon Lady: a violent seductress who will do anything to achieve her goals. At the same time, the dragon lady is unapologetically driven, ultra-assertive, and has agency -- disproving the widespread assumption that Asian people must be “meek”.
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Could you do a video about the dominatrix trope or how BDSM is portrayed in fiction/media
Hi, I love what you guys are doing. Could you please do a video on this topic?
Impregnation in horror movies, such as:
Women getting impregnated by aliens.
Women turning into bloated hives for alien reproduction.
Women giving birth to a demonic child.
Men getting impregnated by an otherworldly seductress.
Misogynist, sexist, rape culture or just pushing a fear of aliens and demons?
Is it possible to make a story arc where the woman that was impregnated, is recovering from this mental scarring?
Hey, can you do the mystery girl trope pls
Raid is nothing but exploitative pay-to-win trash preying on people with addictive personalities. You shill for Raid, I unsub. Do better.
Great video like always ! But can you put the names of the movies your showcase scenes - in the video-disciptions! That would be great because I didnt know all the names of all the movies your show . That way I could watch them maybe be myself.
Mistress Ching from Pirates of the Caribbean is based on a real person; Ching Shih, one of the most successful and powerful pirates in history! Her story is actually amazing, I highly recommend looking into it! :)
My favorite podcast, "The History Chicks", covered her in an episode.
The Puppet History series on Watcher covered her story as well :)
Thanks
@@supr33 I loved the Puppet History episode about her! To be fair though, I just love Puppet History in general haha
Oral History podcast also covers her story!
Angry women in general are always seen as a negative stereotype which needs to change. For white women it's the 'femme fatal', for black women it's the 'sapphire', for asian women the 'dragon lady' and for latin women, the 'spicy latina'... Across years of film and TV, women have been steriotyped just for being angry or wanting revenge where male characters are seen as 'badass' and don't really have a stereotype for the same behavior. 🙄
Thx for this
This is the first time I've heard of a sapphire
@@egg_bun_ It's a term not used as much today as it used to be. It's basically the "angry Black woman" stereotype. Sometimes, it has a bit of sexual exoticism and/or hypersexuality added to the mix.
This!
Cry about it
“This country is the land of liberty for men of all nations…except the Chinese.”
That line really cuts through.
For being a national of immigrants, the USA is pretty bad at welcoming immigrants.
We're gonna build a new settlement. We'll have a happy new life, and we'll have equal rights for all. Except Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Jews, gays, women, Muslims...Um ...everybody who's not a white man. And I mean "white" white, so no Italians, no Polish. Just people from Ireland, England, and Scotland. But from only certain parts of Scotland and Ireland. Just full blooded whites. No, y'know what? Not even whites. Nobody gets any rights. Ahhhh...America.
What I thought when I heard this
@@morehero1 perfect response lol
Even worse is the fact that, when you think about it, "this country" has been the land of liberty for no one except white men.
It has never been the land of liberty for Native and Americans so its a lie!
The fact that Lucy Liu makes up half of these clips just goes to show how few Asian American actresses are cast in prominent roles in Hollywood, but sure case Scarlett Johansson... 🙄
I agree with this but can we not put other women down to make a point?
@@working184 absolutely not, she took an opportunity from an Asian American actress, disregards the role she plays in upholding the white hierarchy in Hollywood and arguably did yellowface. Not a fan of her words and actions on this topic, in my opinion worthy of criticism
Scarlett Johnson pisses me off. Hate her. It’s sad that she’s Scarlet Witch. Scarlet is supposed to be a darkskin Romanian women too.
@@working184 Always saying “stop putting down other women” when it’s time to hold racist white women accountable . No we’ll gladly put them down. Cry.
@@seraqh Yes, STAND IN YOUR OPINION!
I’m surprised Emperor Wu Zetian wasn’t mentioned. She ruled China just as ruthless as any male emperor and history disgraced her for it even accused her of witchcraft. She also did a lot for the common people, which is now being remembered. She also opened the Silk Road for trading.
Her and the Dragon Lady have a lot in common. Humble origins with a pretty face. She was able to gain power through sex appeal. She also kept power through brutality. She made statues of herself, and was not written well by historians because she was a woman in power. She could be where the Dragon Lady stems from.
@@sheilawidjaja7331 in the film Empress Wu Tse-Tien a Chinese film from 1939 she is portrayed as using black magic to kill her daughter. She most likely did nether of those things.
Recent shows in China have portrayed her differently without the whole witchcraft thing. She is still unfairly demonised however.
@@pillbugm8914 I’m a white American, and when had been fascinated with her story, do you know any such shows. I read about her in this book i had about powerful women when I was a child.
This isn't a documentary on Chinese women
@@Chris-rg6nm how she has been viewed does hold a connection to the stereotype. Comes from a culture where submission was expected, used sex to gain power, ruthless in keeping power. These are traits of the dragon lady stereotype as well.
Cristina Yang was one of my tv heroes in my teenage years: unapologetically badass surgeon, who knew what she wanted, knew her talents and strengths and did not let no man or woman to stand in her way. Overall awesome character.
I'm surprised Princess Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender wasn't mentioned or had a clip. She is without a doubt one of the most memorable dragon ladies to come out in recent decades. And she is an example of one who is not only power hungry, domineering and good at marital arts but can also literally breathe fire.
Azula is not a plot device though, she has a detailed back story compared to the traditional dragon lady trope.
Maybe because of her age? They talk a lot about sex as a weapon, which Azula doesn’t do, and including a minor from a kid’s show would be inappropriate.
@@WaitingxInxSilence I would point you to the oddly seductive way she talks to Zuko when sowing the seeds of paranoia in him as well as what Grey delisle said on a panel about what would happen if Zuko and Azula went on a journey together.
@@lordgeneralmilitantdeezy7550.. Oddly seductive? We might have watched different shows. I understand the use of seductive as a synonym for trickery but using the word seductive for a teenage girl is not the best choice.
Don’t you diss on Azula’s character writing like that, bruh
As with Viola Davis, Lucy Liu should have been more well regarded in cinema if not for the rigidness of Hollywood casting.
Lucy Liu has done very well on first embracing and then subverting this image. She’s still playing the sexy badass where most actresses her age are being relegated to the mom or even Grandma.
In pirates of the Caribbean, Mistress Ching is based on Zheng Yi Sao, who did run a brothel and was terrifyingly brutal. I thought the movie portrayed her pretty well. But I can see how, without historical context, she could be seen as a dragon lady.
But would anyone have known she was based on Zheng Yi Sao without the creators telling you she was based on Zheng Yi Sao? And do you think the actual Zheng Yi Sao would have allowed some rich white girl to control the pirate coalition? Zheng Yi Sao was so much so “that bitch” during her time that the British navy FEARED her. So to think she would cower from the British navy, let alone let some inexperienced white girl give her orders is fucking nonsense. Her whole character just reeked of token POC to help exoticize the pirates frackers
Lucy Liu is just Asian American Brilliance. I just wish we saw her in more movies.
i really enjoyed her take on Watson in the US Sherlock show
@@natashafigueroa9198Seconded, she's a brilliant actress who is usually the highlight of everything she's in, along with Michelle Yeoh or Sandra Oh.
@@natashafigueroa9198 Oh yes, she was brilliant!
@@trinaq The Holy Trifecta of Asian American Brilliance .
Lucy Liu’s character in Why Women Kill is an excellent example of a deconstruction of the trope.
Spoilers!
At first she seems to be a complete dragon lady: she’s ruthless, money hungry, and seems to have seduced her husband for social standing. You also assume that she is going to be a ruthless murderer, based on the title and framing of the show. But when she finds out her husband is dying from AIDs, even though she knows he never loved her romantically (since he was gay), she realized they truly did love each other in a beautiful friendship way and helps him die on his own terms, even though it’s exceptionally hard for her. Her heart was never truly cold, she could pause her ruthlessness for sympathy, and she was not a cold hard killer
Why don't people understand that tropes are just boilerplate characters? Writers learn the tropes to have a starting point for their characters and every character can't get a full rounded story line so they seem shallow on the outside.
Ziyi Zhang: another knockout, as is Ji Hyun Jun, Lucy Liu, Min Ah Shin...oh I can name so many!
I’m just hope screenwriters create characters for Asian actors that have more range and deph.
Hollywood: "Or, we give you more Akwafina?"
@@tyrant-den884 The Farewell really hit me on many levels
We can just hire more Asian screenwriters, actors, POC in Hollywood in general, but noooo, that's too simple of an idea. Hollywood would never go for it
Christina Yang is trope breaking, in my humble opinion, because she is ambitious and sexual in spite of Asian stereotypes (not that she does so in spite of her ethnicity) she is ambitious and ruthless and sexual.
Her mother isn’t a “tiger mom” but an interior decorator who just wants a daughter more like herself.
It’s not said enough how ground breaking she a character and Sandra Oh herself as her actor are against these stereotypes.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk, I’ll come off my soap box. Loved this and all your videos!
Christina Yang was so compelling in Grey’s Anatomy. When I think of that show, I think of her performance during the hospital shooting and her ptsd after the plane crash. Wow, those performances are so memorable.
@@fiestadancers even her more nuanced scenes. Where she emotes without words the conflicts within, her last season and the struggles in her friendship with Meredith and the realization of her dreams in Switzerland. Ugh. Iconic.
@@Mndz113 you’re right. Those are the scenes that built up her character. Without them, I would have been less impacted by the intense scenes. And there were many quiet moments that were effecting as well. Sandra Oh breathed fire into that role.
YES! I don't know how many years it's been, but I knew she was the strongest actress on that show when she sat in a conference room after the plane crash with bridal magazines open in front of her and said in this dazed voice "I'd like to talk about the flowers I'm thinking of." So subtle and unbelievably powerful. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
For me, the question that I always ask is: why can't we just have well-written characters?
While i like these discussions it,s always the trope was usually they one dimensional that was based of sexist tropes how ever if you give these tropes more dept it,s no longer sexist
They are not wrong but yeah.....
Racism or "social politics" or both
Please cover the "English Rose", the stereotype of a classic, beautiful English lady, who conforms to traditional feminine stereotypes. Evie from "The Mummy" could be an example.
There's nothing wrong with being those things.
@@yeebler they represent the privilege of being “appropriately” femme while also being wealthy/educated in a way only the upper class can be.
Misogyny poisons everything about being a woman/femininity, including when they let “the right ones” exist in men’s spaces (but only so long as they behave, like Evie who suffers from the judgement of the men around her in Act 1 because she refuses to sit down and be quiet like a good aristocratic lady)
@@vysharra i think i sort off agree with what you said, its not bad being traditionally femenine but they just paint it as a wealthy beutifull white woman, i do not think they should stop making femenine characthers but that they should stop making them all the same
@@yeebler There's plenty wrong with it. Coming from the England, I was put in a restrictive box of who I could and couldn't be. Only upper-middle and upper class England exists as per American's. It made living in the US a fucking nightmare and I was happy to get the fuck out and go home.
I’d love this!!
Exactly. Personified as either a *flower or a sword* ... nothing in-between (like an actual human being who is "well-rounded")
Really, the Dragon Lady is a lot easier to reclaim and make healthier than the Lotus Blossom, I think. Because, by definition, the Dragon Lady plays on fears of a woman having agency and power over her own sexuality. If this is treated as more aspirational and sympathetic, well, you've done a lot to de-other the character. And at least the DL...does things, by definition.
I'm so glad Melinda May is mentioned, she's a great example of deconstructing this trope.
btw agents of shield is full of well written and developed female characters.
I couldn't agree more 🙌
I highly disagree with the second part of your comment. I really dislike the Jiaying character and the way they wrote stories around her.
Xu Xialing in Shang Chi was originally supposed to have a Cool Asian Girl Hair Highlight, but her actress (Zhang Meng’er) personally nixed it, which I adore. She chose not to perpetuate that overdone trope and it made her character that much stronger.
She still was meh for the reminder of the movie in favor of the marvel formula
I'll admit I haven't watched those Charlie's Angels movies in over a decade and I am not Asian, but I would think Lucy Liu has an point with her statement. Alex Monday wasn't supposed to represent every Asian person in the world, but she was an Asian woman in two major (female lead) Hollywood movies, which is still representation - even if the movies aren't exactly masterpieces.
Justice for the First Mrs. Mark Darcy.
I loved Lucy Liu in "Set It Up" and "Why Women Kill"
Likewise, Lucy Liu is such an underrated actress, and she's usually always the highlight of any project she's apart of! 💜
"If my dad wont let me into his empire I'm going to build my own." Words to live by.
Can you make a video on representation of Russians in Hollywood? I think there’s a lot to say. From using Russians as go to villains, to not casting Russian speaking actors, resulting in some awful Russian accents that even Russian speakers don’t understand…
😂I’m not even of Russian descent and I full heartedly agree! The accents are painful, and I mean painful to listen to. I do not understand why they’d rather cast an American actress from the south such as Jennifer Lawrence than a Russian speaking actress for red sparrow that’s one of the more recent examples, there’s plenty more. Also, there seems to be a disconnect in the understanding of their cultural and behavioral norms because they are apparently stiff people who don’t smile because there’s a Russian proverb that translates, roughly, to “laughing for no reason is a sign of stupidity.” I do not think they are cold people, but upfront and honest. It is in their actions, they will not put on fake, plastic smiles. They can speak like a punch to the mouth in terms of being direct, but they are a sincere people from what I’ve noticed.
You're EVIL
You Squirrel is evil and behave yourself as some loser school boy who have no other option to up yours self-respect then to humiliate others. You are racist.
Yes!
@@user-vm6lx5yx1k Russians are white people 🙂
Don't make us come into your country
Can you guys go into detail about the Jezebel trope for black women?
It's wide spread in hip hop
Or about Voodoo/Hoodoo they're different but are thought to be the same and are always demonized and misunderstood
I didn't even know Hoodoo was a thing, but after googling it because of your comment, it seems like Hoodoo often gets portrayed as Voodoo in hollywood movies? Because it's often just about an individual that offers their powers and knowledge? Am I correct in that observation or am I still misinterpreting it? You really blew my mind there, thanks for giving me an opportunity to learn something new!
I like this suggestion
This speaks as why part of the hate towards The Last Jedi's Rose Tico probably came from her not fitting into any of these two stereotypical extremes general audiences (and whiny star wars fans) are comfortable with.
Star Wars being the absolute worse? Color me shocked.
Honestly, I didn't get the hate. I thought she was... fine? Like, she wasn't a fantastic character, but she wasn't awful, either. She was just sort of okay. I felt sorry for the actress though; she didn't deserve any of the hate.
Wait no it doesn't. Plus she is Vietnamese not Chinese you racist.
@@Chris-rg6nm ok
@@Chris-rg6nm So Vietnamese aren't asian now?
I hope that someday I'll see a video on the topic of xenophobia towards Russians/Eastern Europeans in Hollywood. Anti-Slavic sentiment's almost always overlooked, although it has a history as long as racism
??
I have been binge watching Friends recently. In one episode an ethnic Russian character was very angry towards Joey, saying that he finds some American movies disrespectful to his people cuz Russians are always portrayed to be terrorists and villains.
Here I am also watching Hawkeye… bad guys are Russian crime syndicates in sports suits
@@nehcooahnait7827 Now that you’re saying something, I’m noticing this too.
OMG I cannot count how many American films I've watched where Eastern Europeans, Russians in particular but sometimes Serbs or Albanians, are villains.
I’m noticing a thing where people who put the Dragon Lady label on Asian characters that they make it out to be a BAD thing that they wear their cultures clothing
Yeah whether or not it’s a stereotype really depends on whether the media frames the clothing as “exotic” or just as an authentic part of their character
"Why do Chinese girls taste different from other girls?"
Me:🤦🏾♀️😖
and this mr bond is why your female bed partners usually want to kill you.
Same. I visibly cringed, i couldn't believe.
I was taken aback by that line 💀
I love these sm! You guys should do the "Indian Princess" trope! 💖
My favourite role of Lucy Lu was that of Watson in Elementary. That was a complex and yet believable character.
In Kill Bill, she had a decent role, but not too remarkable. She didn't stand out neither positively nor negatively.
My favourite aspect of it was how her tragic backstory connected to that little girl whose mom was an Assassin and died fighting the protagonist.
Michelle Yeoh was the best Bond girl ever. Yeah, I said it.
She's Malaysian and had studied ballet before featuring in Hong Kong films in mid 1980s, she has also worked with the best Hong Kong martial arts choreographers she also has proved she can do more than just action roles as well and is a versatile actress.
As a asian male,I would love to see the evolution of asian males in Hollywood.
Uh for anyone who has an ounce of historical knowledge, the "Misstress Qing" character is based off of a real pirate warlord who was a Chinese Woman. And a complete badass.
Yeah, I was a little taken aback by her inclusion. I mean, I get that she fit the trope, but she was an actual person who was known for being an extremely successful pirate, allegedly dyed flags red with the blood of sailors who broke her code of conduct, and opened a brothel/casino after retiring. Honestly, I was kinda pleased they didn't hypersexualize her since she was originally a prostitute before becoming a pirate...
Well if you had an ounce of historical knowledge, you would know that Zheng Yi Sao was very much “that bitch” during her life time, She was so powerful that the British navy, arguably the most powerful naval force of the time period, FEARED her. So to see her character reduced to some random pirate leader taking orders from some young, inexperienced, rich white girl is laughable. So yeah the creators “say” she was based on Zheng Yi Sao but her character portrayal was such a far cry from the actual Zheng Yi Sao that I would say that it’s not actually Zheng Yi Sao but just a lazy exotic POC insert to an already very white franchise
@@kirag9509 Even though I hate pirates, I think the British Empire was worse, so I don't really feel bad that the British feared her.
So, now you could cover the "brutal tough Russian lady" trope, often east-european women are represented as well as relentless and heartless. Having seen this take, it seems similar, but different. Thanks for your work anyway!
Lucy Lui is so pretty and such a well rounded actress 😍
There's no excuse for the massacre in Atlanta early this year. Because not all Asian women are what Hollywood still sees them.
Paused this video to read the wikipedia page for Anna May Wong, and wow, she got snubbed a lot. There were multiple times where she was declined Chinese roles in favour of white actresses, at one point because she was said to be "too Chinese to play a Chinese [character]." At least she got some progressive roles during her career, and when she did, it's almost sad how happy she was to receive them, because she didn't get them a lot. On her role in the film "Daughter of Shanghai," where she played a sympathetic role- "I like my part in this picture better than any I've had before ... because this picture gives Chinese a break-we have sympathetic parts for a change! To me, that means a great deal."
Edit: A commemorative coin with a picture of Anna May Wong is being released this year in a collection of coins featuring American women involved in arts, activism, and sciences.
Simply not writing her as a one dimensional character fixes so much of this trope. It's sad that when an Asian woman has power, ambition and owns her sexuality she has to be a villain. 😞
Well murdering 1000s of people is villainous lol. Common sense
Like other comments have mentioned, I am genuinely surprised that Azula (The Last Airbender), Mother (Memoirs of a Geisha), and Empress Wu Zetian (Empress Wu) were not mentioned. I also feel like the dragon lady trope manifests in many K-dramas through a matriarch, single mother, stepmother, or mother-in-law. I wish the Take could do a series where they unpack all the racial tropes for each race in one vide: one video for Black American tropes (mammy, jezebel, and sapphire) and one video for East Asian tropes (dragon lady, lotus blossom, and tiger mother). It could be interesting to see how all three/four interact together on-screen and throughout history.
I suppose this stereotype can go hand-in-hand with the Asian tiger mom. I grew up around a number of Asians and trust me the whole tiger mom thing is a stereotype.
What's the Tiger Mom stereotype?
@@lee210294 look up the book BATTLE HYMM OF THE TIGER MOTHER
@@lee210294 It's a stereotype where Asian moms push their kids to exceed better in academics, jobs, and even hobbies. Even though it's a stereotype, it's still sorta true in real life. Tiger moms, like the Dragon Lady, are very strict and ruthless. And because of the pressure they put on their kids, it could lead to kids having mental health problems because of too much pressure and expectations put onto them.
I don't have parents like that, but I'm sure many Asians do. Some are probably ok with their parents doing 'tiger parenting' because they grew to understand that their parents are just worried about their future and don't want them to fail and only want what's best for them. But there are probably some kids out there whose tiger parents' parenting skills pushed them too hard and affected them negatively. For the latter, there was this case of a person who killed her tiger parents because of their way of parenting (for the record, I do not know too much about the case, I only brought it up because of this topic).
@@ninarances9074 Oh I see, kinda like the mom from that Disney movie Turning Red.
And I hadn't heard of that case, but it sounds horrific 💀
Thanks for explaining!
@@lee210294 Yeah Ming is a good example of a tiger mom. Right now, another character that reminds me of a tiger mom is Nicole from "Gumball". But I don't think she is that strict when it comes to her kids' studies and exceeding expectations. Yeah she gets mad when they get into trouble, but I don't think she pushes her kids to excell in school????? I don't remember any episode where she does that. But I guess her backstory kinda shows she was raised by tiger parents?
And yeah, the case seems pretty horrific when I read a bit about it.
You're welcome!
Honestly Lucy Liu in any role would be top tier excellent.
I do like the point Liu made about some characters being seen as a dragon lady solely because of her ethnicity- it sometimes feels like the pursuit of good rep can lead to people making overly narrow definitions of what good rep is.
Anna May Wong was a brilliant performer but robbed of good opportunities. A tragedy indeed.
Do you think you could do the wallflower/shrinking violet trope.
Yes, please, it's one of my favourite tropes, probably because I used to embody it in my younger years.
It's the shrinking violet trope where a girl is really nice, kind, and shy?
And why we should all take a petal out of her book and let her bloom in her own space
Video starts at 3:50
Agent Melinda May is amazing! Also of note is Daisy Johnson, a half-Chinese character played by half-Chinese actress Chloe Bennett, in that show who is very kick ass but also the very definition of a hero.
Mistress Ching was based on Zheng Yi Sao, who became SO POWERFUL and led such an unspeakably enormous naval force, that the emperor at the time literally paid her to retire. She then opened a fancy brothel and lived the rest of her days in quiet managerial luxury. Tbh, I don’t see that as “dragon lady stereotype” so much as “Tuesday,” if you’re as badass as she was.
OMG, you did include the only one Melinda May! A truly underrated Marvel character and a gem who should be appreciated more ✨🌈
Finally, the classic old dragon lady villainess trope has become a shadow of its recent descendant, the contemporary badass dragon lady heroine.
Thank you for mentioning Shohreh Aghdashloo. She's not nearly mentioned or appreciated enough as she should be
The sexy spicy submissive demure dichotomy happens in to every race in America.
Black Maid vs Sassy Queen
Latina Maid vs Spicy Latina
Lotus Flower Girl vs Dragon Lady
Mysterious Hijabi vs Spicy Arabian Woman
I think it would be interesting to watch about Russian women on screen
Agreed
Yas! More POC content please and thank you. :)
I love Dragon Lady, and I love Lucy Liu and I love her in Quentin Tarentino's Kill Bill. I had no female asian role models growing up. But powerful asian women in Hollywood has always been able to provide me with them. Especially with Wachowski films.
The worse trope I hate is anything that has to do with women 'using' their sexuality as a weapon. It's so gross and reinforces the incel mindset that 'wome are controlling' or something.
Thank you for calling it all out. Keep this up and dismantle all these harmful shit in the media.
I agree with everything but O-Ren from Kill Bill did have a back story
12:35 They mentioned she has a back story so a character was something more.
Mistress Chang of Pirates was based on a real life person. Other facts not withstanding.
One of my favorite channels 💗
If you want to see real Chinese actresses watch Hong Kong films. Hollywood will always stereotype ethnicities. Maggie Cheung Man Yuk is one of Hong Kong's most well known and versatile actresses I'd put here up but then again I am biased towards classic Hong Kong films.
THIS! I love watching wong kar wai’s and hou hsiao hsien’s films bc everything was very artistically captured
@@tintedcherry yeah Wong Kar Wai’s best films are the Cantonese versions of As Tears Go By (1988) and The Days of being Wild (1990) both with Maggie Cheung 👍🏻
I haven’t seen any of Hou Hsiao Hsien’s films only Raise The Red Lantern (1991) which he produced.
@@jeanette8606 you should try millennium mambo, the soundtracks are top tier and it has the best opening, ever known to man kind in cinematography of all time. I rewatched it just to see shu qi narrates her life as Vicky in the zhongshan land bridge in a slow motion. I haven’t been checking out a lot of wkw’s films so I’d definitely try to catch up on it
Ohh the amount of work lucy liu had done is amazing! She's awesome!!!
Is it stupid of me that I never thought of the dragon lady as Asian? I always thought if she had the typical traits, she would be a dragon lady, never thought if that ethnicity..😓
YES. I've been waiting for this one. Please do one on the lotus flower/china doll trope!!
I’m sure you’ve found this out by now, but they already have a video on the topic.
I don't know if you have done this before, but what about sexual abuse/rape as a backstory trope?
Amazing video, as always.
Lucy Liu is a great adaptation of the character John Watson.
Why not reference "Memoirs of a Geisha"? An American produced film and Gong Li was EVERYTHING! Wait...can't be a "Dragon Lady" depicting East Asian women in their own culture. Or is it because, westerns we're not involved...WAIT...The Hot Springs scene...🤔
I mean……they never said that Hatsumomo WASNT a dragon lady so I don’t understand this argument? And your statement, “depicting East Asian women in their their own culture,” perpetuates the Asian monolith stereotype. Almost all the female actresses in the Memoirs of a Geisha were played by Chinese actresses. So to say that Chinese women playing Japanese characters = them playing “their own culture” is super weird because they are not “in their own culture”
Could've mention xiao long nu ( little dragon maiden), the total opposite of the dragon lady troupe
Lucy Liu is an icon❤️
Never been this early!!✌🏼
Ikr
the character in lovecraft country is not a dragon lady - she is a Kumiho
So far, Raya and Namaari are the best forms of dragon lady representation in the media.
How so?
"Asian women are super submissive"- tell me you don't know any Asian women without actually telling me (usually confusing "quiet" with "submissive").
Basically dragon lady is an asian femme fatale
I don't know, when I was a kid, it felt empowering to see acknowledgement that women can be strong, powerful, strong leaders. I knew that power how you use this power depends on you. But the recognition that a woman can have that power was amazing and inspiring. Also, perhaps I don't understand it fully, since I am not Asian.
By the way, I don't think I personally being a child ever linked evil qualities to Asian people because of this trope, possibly since they were often opposed by positive Asian characters (like the ones played by Jackie Chan)
The issue is not those traits themselves, but the fact that there are soooo many “dragon lady” type characters that specifically treat East Asian women characters as non-human in a sense, and that show their (sometimes positive) traits of seductiveness, cunning, and power to be explicitly **racialized** instead of just being part of their character, and framed as “exotic,” “foreign,” and “threatening” which creates that mental link between race and villainy in real life too.
If you’re interested, there’s the related, more general idea of Yellow Peril, which the Dragon Lady trope can be traced back too.
Would love to see you talking more about indigenous / native american/global south indigenous representation !! Especially women. Ignored and still stereotyped more than any other group imo.
I just want peace between the east and the west as a mixed girl
There is a reason Fry from Futurama falls in love with a Lucy Lui clone - she's fkn awesome.
I love seeing the Dragon Lady portrayed in a positive way considering where it came from and all the racism and Yellow Peril that surrounds the stereotype. It’s kind of like how black people reclaimed the n-word as a word of friendship and camaraderie.
I didnt realise, there were so many BIPOC actors and actresses in Black & White movies. This is something, I'd love to study more.
NOOOOO THE TAKE. DONT FALL FOR THE DARK SIDE. DONT LET RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS TAKE YOU
0:03 I'm a drunk dude watching this lol
These tropes always go from one extreme to another. It's sad that women can never just Be, we always have to have some type of cliche attached to us AND I'm OVER IT!!!
I thought dragon lady just meant non-combative yet commandingly tough as nails, not sexual dominant nor necessarily Asian. One of my co-workers (who was a white accountant) at my old job was dubbed the dragon lady because she was tough on uncooperative customers when it came time for them to pay the bills.
The term “dragon lady” definitely derives from (East) Asian stereotypes. Similar to how the term “tiger mom” also derived from (East) Asian stereotypes. But unlike to term “tiger mom,” the term “dragon lady” has lived in the American cultural lexicon for so long that people forget it originated from (East) Asian stereotypes. In fact, the first mention of “Dragon Lady” was arguably in “Terry and the Pirates” and it specially referred to a Chinese woman. And combined with the Yellow Peril (also going on at the same time) the term “dragon lady” caught on and was almost exclusively used to refer to East (and sometimes South East) Asians. But I agree with you that I have never really thought of dragons ladies as sexually dominant or sexual in general. But then again, because Hollywood often portrays Asians as inherently sexual, I can see why the sexual part is also inherently attached to the term “dragon lady”
My mom is a quarter asian and my dad is half and a lot of my ex bfs are also half Asian with their mom being full Asian. One of the first things these guys ask me when we start dating is if my mom is a “dragon lady” like their mom. I would meet their mom and she was never a dragon lady type. My exes (men) were feeding into the stereotype that all full Asian women were dragon lady types. This myth was created by and is still perpetuated by men. Men are the problem with all stereotypes.
This is kinda similar to the spicy Latina trope
The thing is I've never thought of any of these characters as dragon ladies, so maybe that's on the person watching and how they interpret what they are watching.
I like that many actors & actresses want to give their characters more depth or not make tropes , less ethnic.
I love how half these characters are Lucy Liu
Finally. Was tired of how they write Asian women. It’s like they’re unable to write Asian women as just people.
“I choose violence” - Cersei Lannister
one of the most famous pirates was a lady like the one in "Pirates of the Caribbean" Zheng Yi Sao
Please do on bollywood men
"...and Liu's perspective raises the complicated question on whether flawed representation is still a lot better than no representation. "-
Yes, something is better than nothing because there's no such thing as "perfect" representation. If I've learned nothing from the Take, it is that EVERYTHING is flawed. For a real world analogy, the controversy around "In the Heights" showed us over the summer, there will ALWAYS be a reason to complain.
That's why instead of lumping it all together, I prefer to look at characters on a case by case basis. Calling Alex from Charlie's Angels a "dragon lady" seems dubious to me for a number of reasons, but it's interesting how easily that trap can appear when a race is changed specifically to Asian. Elektra, from Daredevil, is ethnically Greek, but was played by Elodie Yung in the show, and it made the character feel that much more like a traditional 'dragon lady' stereotype. But what do I know? I thought she was awesome
Please make a video on how South Asians often get excluded when describing "Asians" in general
I know it wasn't delved into the video, but I'd argue that Nagini has more characteristics of a Lotus Blossom than a Dragon Lady, as her character's mostly there to be an innocent, potential love interest to Credence (visually she does have Dragon Lady elements). However, she is still underdeveloped, doesn't have much else to do in the film, and the fact that her character will eventually become both a villain and Voldemort's pet essentially in the Harry Potter franchise, no matter if they decide to eventually develop her, is still very problematic.
Shepherd's Chapel Network !!!!!!! Do you have the Gift / Spiritual Discernment ???????
1:00 What the hell was that? She jump near her? Was that supposed to be a kick? lol.
Fun fact Mistress Ching was based on the real life pirate Ching Shih. Who actually had a fleet of ships. And of course there going to do all those horrible things, there bloody pirates. You're just looking for something to complain about.
Other than that, great video.