The Ice Queen Trope, Explained - Why She Always Defrosts
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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All hail the Ice Queen. This cold and cunning leader reigns with her icy fist and piercing power. But beneath that icy surface, the Ice Queen typically struggles with more intense feelings than most of us, which is why she works so hard to keep everything under control. One of the most misunderstood characters of all time, the Ice Queen is someone who has been cast as a villain - often for failing to live up to heteronormative ideals of womanhood. And it’s telling that the phrase “Ice Queen” most often pops up as an insult a guy uses for a woman who doesn’t welcome his advances. So what is it about the Ice Queen that makes her worth rooting for? Here’s our Take on why her iciness might not mean what you think.
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I'm so happy you actually gave screentime to Greta Garbo.
ICE QUEEN, DRAMA QUEEN... both misogynistic expressions aren’t as awful as the “ QUEEN SIZE BED “... why ? Because universally the standards put the queen size behind the king size, AND EVEN THE BIGGEST ONE OF ALL KNOWN AS: (SUPER KING SIZE)/(CALIFORNIA KING) 👿🔥 not even a *GENDER* - *NEUTRAL* name ! ..... like God or Pizza or any other neutral name 😝😂🚺
The Sexy alien trope. The Haunted House Trope. The sexy nerd trope. The urban fantasy trope. The dysfunctional family trope. The political shark trope. The sexy doctor and/or lawyer trope(s). Sky's the limit.
I like ice queens because they’re typically really hardworking, driven, and ambitious. Also, they’re often independent and extremely selective with whom they associate, which is relatable. I think they’re most likable when they exhibit some vulnerability with at least one or two important people in their lives. But when they’re unnecessarily cruel and excessively callous to others who don’t deserve it, they become so repulsive and almost irredeemable as characters.
I agree, Ice Queens work best when they're portrayed as strong, confident characters, yet let their guards down to people they trust. 💜
1k
Right on point
So true. Super bad outcome though if they fall for you, you fall in love when they're feeling smothered. Bad for all involved. But yeah, a completely different experience. I don't think it can be created as a conscious decision (for image or whatever reason) in personal life. Something like trauma or extreme cynicism, higher neuroticism, higher anxiety/etc (increasingly likely in our environment) is likely the reason for it while growing up. Those are my observations anyway, cheers.
That there is an excellent explanation of both ends of this trope; the villain and the heroic one.
My family members have always called me Ice Queen for as long as I can remember and were shocked to find out that I was getting married. "Wow looks like someone melted your heart!" Hated that comment
You know what you should do, right? Don't invite them to the wedding, Queen.
@@EvaHedy 🎤dropped
I've heard similar comments my entire life.
@Nymeria, I've been labeled as "the quiet one", "the stoic" and "Ice Queen my entire life too, I also hate the "Wow, looks like someone melted your heart!" comment too. Behave like the true queen you are @Nymeria, and don't invite people who made that comment to your wedding, you don't need them on that happy day, anyway.
the most cold thing an ice queen would do is not invite them to the weading. make then right by make it real.
I didn’t realize I was waiting for this until it came out. As a Latina I can’t tell you how many people expect me to be fun and flirty and when men approach me they expect me to see it as a compliment and get their egos bruised when I don’t, then call me “bitch” or “c*nt”. As I get older I find myself sparing feelings less and less. People are responsible for their own feelings and how they react, it’s not on me. Why should I try and fit their expectations or their preconceived notions about me? Thank you for calling this out!
I’m sorry that’s been your experience
Same as a black girl, we are expected to lower our expectations because well you can guess and its honestly tiring.
I’m white, however, even I’ve had to deal with this double standard as a woman with morals and ambition who isn’t flirty, @Vashtibucket. I’m not lowering my standards just because society is corrupt.
Same, sis. Latina girl here and I remember watching Frozen and crying a lot when I view myself in her. And my family just realized that I am not just cold and that's it. This came from trauma....
Now I am better, I went to therapy and I reconected with my femenine and soft side. By myself. No man came to "melt my heart"...
In fact I have never been in a relationship or has a boyfriend and now that I am better mentally, I am preparing myslef to be a homemaker because I want to...
I am glad you choose your friends wisely, that has to be done👌👌👌
@@Chris-rg6nm watch the video The Spicy Latina here form The Take.
"it's just my people are nordic" still takes me out to this day 😂, Betty has amazing comebacks
Iconic
What people? She is an American
@@greyLeicester During the dinner party ( the one where she wore the polka-dot dress, she said her grandmother was German)
@@davriecaro3036
Ampy is just being silly.
That said Betty’s character was well educated.
@@owenmccord5078 Oh okay, sorry for the misunderstanding (that is the thing with online you cannot hear the person's face to tone to see if they are telling a joke)
15:55 "If a woman is strong she is considered unfeminine..."
That is so true, especially for black women
Facts
@@Chris-rg6nm Not me. Strength has nothing to do with femininity so any woman of ANY race can be both.
@@Chris-rg6nm We don't, only because people use it to justify any abuse towards us. Sometimes it's helpful, but it's mostly hurtful.
@@Chris-rg6nm You know it's more complex then that Chris. I say this cos I've seen you go for low hanging fruit on Take threads when you are bored and every now and again actually be insightful so lets get into it. Strong is vague. We are tired of endlessly stoic which absolutely a cultural and historical problem. Stoicism should be a choice not an expectation. Like other vague traits it virtue signals us into corner no one asked for. Personal accountabilty, social responsibility and community support is everyone's work. Often it's fallen on women of many cultures to fill in the gaps. From Mammys (black) to Mammies (Celtic). From servant here to slave there. Turn over the page for the second part of this essay.
@@Firegen1 he is definitely a big troll. I have seen his foolish comments as well.
Please do the older child (usually an older sister) raising her younger siblings trope.
There are so many, Nani from Lilo and Stitch, Fiona from Shameless, Seita in Grave of the Fireflies, Daya from Orange is the New Black, Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Lizzie from Instant Family, Alec Lightwood from Shadow Hunters, Laura Kinney from X-Men, Lynette from Desperate Housewives, Viserys from Game of Thrones, Violet from Mom, Peter and Susan from The Chronicles of Narnia, Ree from Winter's Bone, Sue from the Fantastic Four, etc.
I can relate to this I have a younger brother and he's in the rebellion phase
THIS.
Yesss. I was watching Blue Crush for the first time in years the other day and the main character fits this trope too, since she's forced to raise her younger rebellious sister while her mom's out of the picture.
Katara from Avatar
This and show the good and bad. I raised my siblings and I realize as my sister gets older I did take out a lot of my anger and stress on her. I try to make up for it everyday even if she doesn’t see it as badly as I do. I know what I did might have hurt her but she’s too young to understand. That’s why in her teenage years I want to be the best and most supportive big sister.
"Must you flirt"
"But I find it natural."
"Suppress it."
I laughed out loud at that part 🤣 such a good line.
😂😂
What's that from?
Elsa was originally intended to be evil but they scrapped that idea
They made the smart choice
Seconded, I love that they made Elsa more sympathetic, and we grew to understand her motives more once we saw her internal conflicts. ❄️
Idk, i love Elsa’s character but that sounds interesting
The movie would have been better if she were evil
I think a critical moment for Elsa was being captured by Hans and his men. If she'd managed to fight them off then she probably would have become the traditional evil snow queen: She would lock herself away in her ice palace with no-one brave enough to challenge her or mount another attack, and Anna would have died of her frozen heart. As a result Elsa's guilt, heartbreak and isolation would have driven her to madness.
Ever heard of a morally gray villain?
I love this take so so much. The double standards for working women are real. The same qualities for which men are called geniuses, creative thinkers and ambitious are changed into "ice queen, masculine, cunning, bossy, shrewd" When a woman possesses them. It's patriarchy in it's finest form hurting women who refuse to bow down and change their personality or decisions to conform to societal norms.
“Patriarchy” what? It just reflects what we already know, in general men and women dont value the same exact qualities from each other, usually women find high earning men with financial stability a more suiting and attractive partner meanwhile most men dont really care about that stuff, we appreciate it but dont see it as attractive, men are mostly guided by physical attractiveness more than anything, thats why men’s peak attractiveness usually comes in their late 30s where theyre economically stable, meanwhile women’s peak attractiveness are usually in their 20s. We value different things and thats okay, you have the right to embrace a career driven life as a woman but men also have the right to not find that specific trait attractive, nothing to do with double standards.
@@christianalexander6364 TLDR: Men be shallow
@@mittenista Shallow? Wanting your partner to have economic stability could also be considered shallow with that logic, its just different preferences presented by genders, what a lazy response.
@@christianalexander6364
"I want a partner who doesn't care how I look or how much money I make. I want her to love me for me, and who I am on the inside. No fatties or uggos though."
@@christianalexander6364 You clearly have a psychology degree and can back all of this up. Finally, this man has discovered the secret to real human connection that will last a lifetime! I'm 6'1, how far down would that put me, rating wise, in your arbitrary rating system for female attractiveness?
I loved this take. My mother was an ice queen. She wasn´t a career woman, she was a house mom (I find it hard to say "house wife". In Spanish we call the same role, "house master", or "House owner"... (ama de casa). The woman who stays at home). She was regarded by most people as a cold woman, bitter even. But she was the best mom. A protector, and very nurturing.
I think you mean "Housewife". My mother is the breadwinner of our family, but ironically (for some people), she is actually very optimistic and sweet. My brother-in-law calls her "Señora Chocolate" (Mrs. Chocolate). She doesn't deny reality either and encourages me and my sister to do what we want to do at our fullest effort.
@@alexandraguardian9840 "Señora Chocolate" ... I love the nickname. And yeah, I meant housewife. I just wanted to make the distinction that the literal meaning of "ama de casa" sounds more like she is the one calling the shots, while "housewife" sounds a bit like she's subjected to the actual boss. Dunno if that makes any sense.
@@DLibera It's okay. If someone called my mother subjugated as an underling to my father, I would get mad or uncomfortable too.
Elsa is a wonderful deconstruction of the Ice Queen trope.
She’s tries to be cold and heartless in order to protect those closest to her, but she has overwhelming compassion and warmness that she wants to embrace.
Actually, she should've been the villain as she was originally intended to be instead. But she wasn't going to be just another typical antagonist. She was going to be a morally gray one.
@@1992disney glad she didn't end up being either of those 2 last things you've mentioned
@@monabohamad2242/videos Shut up, feminist.
I was surprised at not finding any Nicole Kidman's performances here
Especially her role in *To Die For* which was scary as heck. She was the quintessential Ice Queen in that movie! Also, they didn't include anyone of color (as always). Olivia Pope is a poster model for Ice Queens.
Anyone else familiar with the trope in a lot of rom-coms with the bubbly, “silly” girl and her friend (sometimes sister) who’s career-oriented and intelligent, and when they both get love interests, the career-oriented girl always ends up with a laid-back man who “teaches” her to be less driven? I always thought this trope was odd, and pretty annoying.
"Princess and the Frog"?
@@DawnSkyStudios Actually, I think that's a subvertion because, while it seems like you said, at the end, Tiana does get emotional (and manual) support from Naveen when it comes to her business dreams. It was refreshing when I saw it.
There is a mistake in caption: The Snow Queen cartoon used in the video was made in 1957, not in 1976, it is soviet animation classic
I would say that Miranda from Devil Wears Prada is an exception because Miranda never really melts. Or dies. At the end Andy leaves because Miranda continues to be the cold queen she always has been, even after she experiences heartbreak, and Andy can’t reconcile with it. But then again at the end she writes Andy a recommendation letter that shows her much warmer inner impression of Andy.
“the ice queen” has always been my favorite villainess, she’s hurt, misunderstood, and scared of getting hurt again. If you know an ice queen, help them and focus on rehabilitating her. I love movies where there are ice queens as characters, literal or not. Any suggestions?
I'm writing about a few as protagonists in books I'm writing, @Al Channel.
If you’re into opera, “Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District” (or “Katerina Izmailova,” if you want the film version) is a fascinating take on this trope. Based on the Nikolai Leskov novel of the same name, which presents its main character as a villainous, scheming woman who murders her husband and father-in-law after being sexually assaulted (and falling in love with the rapist), the opera by Shostakovich is an interesting update and revision, where Katerina is portrayed as a sympathetic character forced into her situation, as are the other female characters in this adaptation. While Katerina’s scheming character can be considered an “Ice Queen,” this is because she has nowhere else to go. The opera exposes the tragedy of her situation, shames the men who take advantage of her, and portrays her as a complex heroine whom the audience is intended to sympathize with.
Regina (the Evil Queen of Snow White) has a redemption arc in Once Upon A Time. I loved every second of character development. Not to mention she's still fierce & protective by the end of it.
@@Joy6168 thats so cool. Keep working on your novels. I am writing one too although it doesn’t have any ice queens in maybe i should incorporate that.
@@sophiatalksmusic3588 that sounds interesting. I’ll have a look thanks
I think Medusa is one of the oldest misunderstood ice queens. She's got a cold exterior and hurts everyone that gets close to her but not because she's evil. It's because that's the only way she knows how to protect herself and its what kept her alive for so long.
Thank you for bringing attention to the blatant misogyny behind Ice Queen trope. Ice Queens are ambitious, assertive and driven and I love them for that.
Also if they don't thaw a bit from time to time they might come off as very unfriendly to other people in general, which will inevitably result in them portraying Ice Queens as evil or at least ill willed.
As someone who's been told they have an "icy" personality, I hated that women with my similar personality were portrayed as the villains
Try having a posh English accent in Hollywood.
"Some people are worth melting for." Olaf, Frozen❄️❣️
Ugh, Olaf will always have my heart 💗
I have an Olaf plushie that I got from build a bear😭 I named him Ollie though🙂
Why do some people hate Olaf though?
“I choose violence”
Ah yes. Queen Cersei.
I feel like Elsa really is a particular case where the "iciness" of her personality is barely condemned in the movie (only once by Anna, I think), but instead it's wildly criticized and misunderstood by people in the actual real world. The amount of criticizing her character gets, solely because she is calm and demure in comparison to all other loud and extremely active princesses, including her sister, is astounding. You have grown people, almost unequivocally men, truly questioning children who might look up to her, finding it odd that they'd find comfort in a character they deem personality-less or boring and dismissing the qualities she possesses by claiming all she has is a song, as if that was not the point of a musical to begin with.
I'm assuming you've seen those awful takes about how Elsa is just the song Let it go and nothing else. its like people don't realize that Let it go is at the end of act 1 of the movie and that the story didn't end with let it go.
To be fair the Take isn't doing that much better of a job. Let It Go is about Elsa learning to accept herself but the more important lesson Elsa needs to learn is that running away from her problems and isolating herself from people isn't going to fix her problems. Elsa spends the rest of the movie learning this.
Right?? Like she grew up being told by others to conceal it and don’t feel it from a young child to a young adult. Of COURSE she’s gonna seem dismissive and soft in personality, sometimes she nudges and ice formed around her so that fear constructed into her through adulthood. She can be outgoing and abrasive when the situation calls for it but again depends solely on what’s going on.
People expect women to always be warm and inviting, while accommodating everyone’s feelings. They say women are emotional as a bad thing, but also always want women to be showing emotion - mainly the positive ones
There's not winnig here.
A lot of ice queens become gay icons too, and I wonder if that speaks to growing up bullied, like the idea of being able to not care and eviscerate people with just your words; the idea of being powerful AND effeminate
My social shyness but also firm self-advocacy often got mistaken for being aloof, when I was younger, & I more than once got called an ice queen for it. Apart from the fact of being misunderstood, I never actually minded the title itself; there's no affection, but a certain grudging respect, in it. A concession of dominance, even. It's like the positive side of bitch.
As far as epithets go, being named an ice queen is arguably one of the more flattering.
Resentful or not, they're still calling you a queen.
I always looked up to ice queens and wanted to be one. They’re gorgeous and so strong. But I wear my heart on my sleeve and I’m too much of a screw up to reach their level of efficiency.
Hah, same. It's hard enough to keep my composure when someone is shitty to me. Was hard to realize that I'm not made for power plays and office politics. But everything has its upsides. We can score points with honesty and competence.
Same here
Same. A lot of my favorite characters/women in general are ice queens.
My favourite "Ice Queen" is probably Olivier Armstrong from Fullmetal Alchemist
She's highly respected by her subordinates, she's not a villain, nor suppressing her "warmer gentlier side"
She's a professional who proudly wears her "Ice Crown"
I like how she's not "hurt and formed" by her surroundings (her family is kinda weird but still loving) to become cold
Instead she's just purely badass and I love her
I was waiting for this comment thanks. My favorite character.
The best
9:05 No, do not defend the character that literally killed an entire planet out of Spite.
Edit: She's also not from Narnia, she literally came there to take it over.
exactly the comment I was going to make
I agree. But maybe they are just looking at her in an objective way. I read the books. And nothing much besides her wishes to conquer are stated, yes, it's true that she is not narnian and she is only after power and absolute control, but so all queens, witches and basically any woman in a position in power has been portrayed...idk just saying
They really took the feedback serious, they got for their ridicoulous Harry Potter video ... not.
@@Privykos i mean... nothing changes the fact she's pretty evil 🤷♂️. We can add a gender layer if we want but doesn't mean it's always adequate to apply.
@@Privykos So the problem with this argument is that in their defense in 9:05 they are saying that she's bad partially because "her" world expects her to be. When she A. is not from this world but an invader, and B. already irredeemably evil.
And as for your argument, all witches/women in power in fantasy are depicted as nothing but power-hungry. It's not a gendered thing. Male pure evil dictators in fantasy have been around forever. Even Avatar:TLAB, one of the most critically acclaimed fantasy stories ever, has a male main villain whose only characterization is being power-hungry and evil.
Episode suggestion: a take on inspiring disabled people. I would love to see you talk about inspiration p0rn, about how disabled lives are seen as less valuable, how people treat disabled people like children and so on
YES
Yes, great idea! So much to explore. The difference when a disabled character is played by a disabled person, disabled characters as supporting cast etc.
They can even mention Walter White Jr from Breaking Bad
In the Ice Queen Trope, I see someone strangling to feel or understand empathy. Maybe she was raised that way, maybe society drags her down too many times, maybe this is just the way she is...the result is the same. Thawing the Ice Queen is finally allowing her to feel and accept that she does.
While she is an ICE queen
She’s not an ice queen
Elsa has a kind and compassionate and selfless heart
That's true, Elsa hid that side of herself, terrified that she'd accidentally hurt someone else. She later becomes a whole lot warmer and more confident in herself. ❄️
Ikr. It's her defense mechanism, not really a part of her personality.
@@zitronentee true
@@trinaq she was always warm she just needed to stop being scared
I think others around her perceived her as an ice queen. But you're still right, deep down she is kind and loving.
I love how this channel humanizes female tropes we’ve been groomed to hate 🥰
You're not groomed to hate them. Your born hating them.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 only sexist men lol
@@namkia205 so it's sexist to not be fond of toxic female characteristics? Because let's be straight, the Ice Queen architype is toxic. Hence why she defrosts in the end.
LOL, a majority of Cersei's pain is her own doing. Her children died because of her idiocy and her pride. Quite frankly, she set up her children for failure the moment she conceived them with her brother. She is one Ice Queen that I don't feel sorry for. She may have been a victim at one point.. but then she went above and beyond and did 100x worse to everyone else around her.
I only got to read the first three books, but they've made me think about Cersei a lot. We get stories about her from Jamie's and Tyrion's perspective and know that she was mean since she was a little girl (I think that largely due to the treatment she got as a spoiled child). But then growing up the only thing she wanted was to be close to Jaime and they took that away from her. Of course, it's weird that she's in love with her twin brother, but they married her to an older man who she didn't know and who never bothered to pay attention to her cause he couldn't get over the loss of Lyanna. So she was away from the person she cared the most about and forced to have sex and be married to someone she hated. I'd be resentful as well.
Yes, but at the same time, even if she was already a villain-to-be, her actions are very influenced by the Witch's prophecy. Not defending her actions, just saying that she never really had a chance of redeeming herself neither. Would she had become a good woman in the future? Chances are not, but there's a certain freedom of improving that she looses that night. She IS an ice queen because to her, being good meant letting her guard down, which would lead to seeing her children dead, a new queen take her place and her brother killing her. The funny thing here is that, as you said, she forces her own destiny with her choice of making enemies left and right, especially her own brother. She was so scared of the prophecy becoming true that she made it true with her actions. That is what makes her so interesting and complex.
Trying to put the White Witch in the sympathetic villain category doesn't work, not only for the religious connotations, but also because she chose her position, as explained in the book, The Magician's Nephew. She's also not from Narnia, but Charn, which she destroyed simply because her sister wouldn't give up the throne. She's a villain, plain and simple.
Elsa doesn't really count.She is only emotionless by a couple of seconds.I like the ice queen characters but her defrosting by "love" or children is getting old
@ImAProudIndian So then is Anna is an ice queen because she fits that’s description.
I think she okay. Since as a child she was taught to "conceal, dont' feel". And that's rather toxic in that she was not "allowed" to feel such a primary part of herself and express it, and that continued into her adulthood as well. It was further reinforced by trauma because she accidentally hurt her little sister, and her parents, while it was later revealed that they were voyaging for a way to try and help her, continued to have her suppress her powers so she never really developed proper control of it until afterward. Her "ice" was because of conditioning and trauma. And she slowly learnt how to address that, which is a rather complex theme for a kid's series of films, if you ask me.
I think most 'ice queens' are just misunderstood INTJ/ENTJ females.
ESTJ/ISTJ as well. Both have low Fe and Fi and lead with pragmatism Te.
INFJ can be too, only shows some warmth to people she loves and trust. It's almost like "Off and On" thing.
@@nourhajj4999 most infjs in media become mystical characters tho
Umm... I'm an INFJ and I acted cold because I "Door Slammed" someone because of pain.
@@nourhajj4999 I'm INFJ and some people think I'm a heartless bitch and others think I'm the best thing ever. It depends which side you get on😁.
The Snow queen is neither defeated nor actually that evil in her story she just is in the re-telling. The story is far more about the demon mirror and calling out a lot of the ex-machina powers pure maidens have in fairy tales by overtly stating the heroine has them. the queen is just kinda there in the story.
Thank you! I could feel thry crib noted a few of the film adaptations and went with that version. It's not a major deal but they have a perfectly good example from Narnia if they thought about it
...
I was waiting for this trope SO MUCH. I love you!!!
Me too, I adore this Trope, and how a seemingly cold character warms and defrosts over the course of the story! ❄️💙
I think there is a difference between being tough and being mean. You don't need to be mean all the time to be tough. And those that are mean are not liked, no matter what gender they are.
18 seconds that's a new record. Truly enjoy the take and always glad to see a new video from them.
If you can make a video about how older women are represented in movies and series. The movie that came to my mind is sunest Boulevard In which the actress is terrified that the time will come and her fame as an actress will be behind her.
I am doing a seminar on the subject so I would love if anyone could write me ideas in the comments. Or also about the beauty model related to the same subject. Thank you :)
I could really recommend you film Antonia's Line by Marleen Gorris, it has quite optimistic representation of many generations of women of different age and tells it's story through a femenist lens. Also I adore Netflix's series Gypsy by Lisa Rubin, the protagonist is in her 40s and her character is really developed and deep. In both film and series the age isn't an important part of the plot, Gypsy is more about identity and psychotherapy and Antonia's Line is more about being who you are in a society of obscurantism and violence.
They did a video on sunset boulevard
@@altycoggydeer Thank you👍🏻
@@yundorphin Thanks
I believe it's because women are judged by their youth and beauty, therefore older women are seen as "ruined". It probably ties into fertility and how women are pressured into having children more, or more often, than men.
I've had the term "ice queen" hurled at me as an insult a few times when I was younger. My response, when I bothered to give on, was "Vulcan, actually." I'm glad to have had Mr Spock as my example of outward emotional coolness long before I realized the Disney villains were the traditional representation of someone like me.
I get tired of arguments lionizing Miranda Priestly. She doesn’t acknowledge her workers’ hard work and how it contributes to her success. She has unreasonable expectations. If someone disagrees with her or she doesn’t get her way, she implicitly insults and degrades their value. She shows no loyalty. That’s not principled and strong. Also, as much as I love and appreciate the power and joy of fashion, I have never understood the celebrated “cerulean” speech. The fashion industry has the power to influence trends in such a way as to put cerulean sweaters in stores, but ordinary people apparently deserve contempt for buying and wearing them. Andy lacks passion and preparation for her job and deserves to be critiqued. But her problem isn’t that she consumes the kind of workwear ordinary people can afford, and the value of fashion is not (at least in my opinion) the extent of its control over what people can like or buy. If Miranda thinks fashion is important mainly bc of dominance and contempt, that *should* be a testament against her character, not a celebrated industry maxim.
Jepp. I'm with you on that one. I enjoyed the heck out of TDWP and especially Meryl Streep's performance, but I wouldn't exactly call her 'character goals'.
Tough/ambitious and mean/condescending are not the same thing. And no, you don't actually have to be a ruthless bitch, to be successful in the business world. That's a total myth.
Yes! You're so right! I always hate how people held her up on a pedestal, just because she is successful/ the top of her field? Then again, I generally hate this whole thing in society we have where if someone is good at something (specifically, if they're intelligent) it doesn't matter how they treat people, we're supposed to root for them/ their bad qualities are excused. I see this a lot with a lot of intelligent middle-aged white male characters, like House, Sherlock Holmes, Rick from Rick and Morty, as well as autistic coded characters, like Sheldon Cooper (or once again, Sherlock Holmes). Just because you're intelligent/ good at something, specifically something specialized (like the fashion industry, detective work, etc.) it doesn't mean you are excused from being a dick to everyone OR that the audience should side with you. Especially for intelligent and/ or autistic coded characters, I wish this would be more nuanced - just because you're intelligent, it doesn't make you better than everyone else (in fact a lot of intelligent people I know realize how much they don't know and are always trying to learn new things and also don't think they're better than others). Likewise, just because a character is autistic, doesn't mean they're going to be super intelligent/ more intelligent than most, or really good at a specific thing but average/ worst at most, or that they're going to be 'difficult', 'brutally honest', 'uncaring of others emotions'. Autistic people in real life aren't like the ones that are autistic coded or are autistic on screen and the same goes for intelligent characters.
The cerulean sweater speech is about dressing down the main character because she is unaware of the place of power she has stepped into and how her appearance makes her look foolish among those who pride themselves upon being so in the cut that they are beyond the cut. An out of fashion sweater doesn't cut it among those who defines the cut.
I’ve noticed that when women get “icy” it’s usually because their vulnerabilities have been used against them at some point.
Ok, so this might be a little bit random but it occurred to me that you could view Emma Swan from once a upon a time as an ice Queen archetype. Like she's described as prickly and cold and she a lot of times keeps her feelings hidden and locked up and she doesn't like people seeing her as vulnerable at the beginning of show and through the friendship with Snow and Regina and her relationship with her father and Henry and yeah, even her romance with hook she is able to show her more vulnerable less icy side of herself. She's still the same person she was in the beginning of the show but there are people in her life that she feels comfortable enough to be vulnerable around. I guess the same could also be set for Regina even though she's a bit more fiery she also kind of puts on a cold front. There's just a lot of ice queens in that show. lol
Can you do a video on the "Other Girl" trope, the love rival to the female lead, sometimes her love interest's original girlfriend or mistress, often portrayed as some kind of b**ch or s**t, and how the trope promotes competition between women
and then people wonder why many women/girls dislike each other.
I get sad asf everytime I see Jan from The Office. The writing team destroyed her potential 😭😭😭😭
Did you see the essay on Jan? Take tissues with you 😭
Right...she was literally my fav character
This was a great video! As someone who's been called an ice queen at various levels of joking to not-joking, it was also very satisfying to watch and is really one of my favorite tropes.
I am kind of surprised, though, that there were no examples of Black women or other WOC included, since this is a trope applied to Black/WOC women in media so frequently, usually under the story arc of "defrosting" them either by the "good colorblind" white friends/colleagues, or the love interest (which then gets tangled into "taming" them).
The "Snow Queen" animated movie you cite as BBC 1976 was actually created in 1957 by the Sojusmultfilm studio in the USSR!!!
There are The Take videos about bad moms, ice queens, evil stepmoms, and moms who don't grow up, but what about a video discussing the loving, "perfect" mom and how she can't possibly maintain the level of selflessness and giving that she is expected to? I'm talking about the Molly Weasley-type characters, or the struggle that Sarah Jessica Parker tried to portray in "I don't know how she does it." Even these moms who are loving, giving, and try to provide selfless care can get twisted (Cersei Lannister) or simply burned out by fear for their children/family and efforts to keep the family shipshape even in the face of being resented, under-appreciated, and taken advantage of.
Debra and Susanna are almost obsessed with "Devil Wears Prada". 😂❤️
And mean girls and legally blonde
@kshamwhizzle haha true that!
@@lh9591 oh yeah, I completely forgot about that
I've always loved to watch Ice Queens, I just naturally gravitate towards them and kind of understand them or want to be like them. By watching this video, I've started to realize how much that is because I myself display a lot of characteristics of the Ice Queen. LOL.
I swear every new video of yours becomes my favorite. Each one is so thorough, and beautifully put together, I adore this channel. The inherent misogyny in female tropes is so obvious and the more I learn about it the more I'm noticing it. Fantastic video, as always!
its not that she thinks shes above everyone , but she learn from early that everyone thinks their above her
It's really telling that women typically casted as the more vulnerable and emotional gender who refuse to be distant and are less emotional are demonized as icequeens as if it's negative to put down boundaries, where men are celebrated and "YAAAAAAS KINGGGGGG"ed for doing the same.
Meanwhile I find the icequeen characters to often be the most enjoyable ones, especially when they remain true to themselves and dont "thaw".
You guys should check out "The Remarried Empress" on Webtoons. The story takes "the Ice Queen" trope in another direction with Navier, who definitely resembles most items you've listed but she's such an amazing badass. What's interestingly enough is that it's her husband, Sovieshu, who always refers to her as cold or unfeeling. If the story wasn't in her perspective or if she wasn't the protagonist, then she would definitely be framed as the villainess. I think Navier also reclaims the "Ice Queen" trope due to details like she has support from her friends and followers; She may appear intimidating to approach but she's actually dignified, professional, intelligent, and patient. I love your videos and I hope you'll add webtoons to your content someday.
So far, im loving the story! Im currently reading it now =)
I started reading that recently and it's AWESOME! and not only that, you'll hate the young beauty that's pitted against her (not just because Navier is the protagonist and we automatically root for her but because there are things to legit hate about Rashta)
A woman could commit atrocities and abuses incomprehensible to an average person and y'all would say, "No, no, officer, it's okay, she's just being a girlboss," completely ignoring those she's hurt.
I should be writing my book instead of watching this... But these videos are just too good to ignore the notification.
I love an intimidating woman. I love it when their actions demand respect.
Speaking of Elsa : ''(...) as she's internalized society's expectations of how an ''ice'' little girl should act (...)'', and ''(...) but as a young adult, Elsa's period of ''ice''olation allows her to discover how liberating it can be to discover her ice powers(...)'', were not lost on me.
The pure disbelief of “And she wants to kill puppies!” Gives me life
When I was a kid my mom would call me a "Drama queen" Or "Attention seeking" whenever I cried. Regardless if I was really sad or not they would say that with a scoff. So eventually, I thought being strong and mature means to never be sad and showing any sign of weakness specially crying is immature and weak. Leading to me growing up as an "Ice queen"
Years later, one of our close relative dies and me, being raised that way, never shed a tear. Even though I was shattering inside, because I wasn't even able to say goodbye. I remember my mom confronting me after the memorial screaming and crying at my face saying that I'm psychopatic and heartless. I remember looking her dead in the eye and said "Stop being such a drama queen." And scoffed. She just looked at me wide-eyed, frozen in place. I guess I was just so angry at that moment that she was allowed to cry and I wasn't. Luckily, I grew up since then. Learned that letting yourself be sad and just cry works better than shoving your feelings onside and try to suppress and ignore it. Parents don't disregard your child's feelings. Therapy costs a lot of money.
Damn, that genuinely sucks, has it gotten any easier to open up about your emotions yet? Hope it has and unfortunately therapy does cost quite the pretty penny, hence why no one should do something that will cause someone to need therapy. All the best random internet stranger!
Thanks.
No, Lady Macbeth's crime is plotting to murder someone and Miranda Priestley would be a foul bully whatever her sex. Sometimes people are just scumbags and no amount of 'society made me that way' excuses their behaviour. That principle even applies to women sometimes.
And Cruella isn't a tragic figure, she never got the full tragedy she deserved which was being torn apart by the dogs she tried to kill (or some fiercer ones if the puppies aren't up to it). I'm extremely suspicious of the number of times this woke pair and their minions try to excuse or minimise the crimes of Cruella. Nobody decent and who genuinely cares about animals would ever do that.
One “ice queen” example that came to mind during this take was Adele DeWitt from Dollhouse. What I loved about her “ice queen” characterization was that over time, the ice facade revealed a woman with an inner strength, intelligence and wisdom to face her past mistakes. Rather than being an ice queen villain, she became a leader with an iron will that faces a monster corporation she once protected. I wonder if another take of the ice queen is a woman with inner strength and ironclad resolve, especially when she’s given the chance in her story to grow from her mistakes and face the consequences of her actions with the grace and dignity that so defines the ice queen trope.
I have always wondered what the relationship between Cruella and Anita was really like since they stayed in touch since their school days together. There must be something that kept talking for all that time...??
A kid in middle school once accidentally called me ice Queen to my face when he meant to say my name. The terror in his eyes when he realized.
Ironically I’d consider myself the opposite, I’m very open and smiley. Him and his friends only called me that because I didn’t think they were funny 🤷♀️
Oh girls. Could we please stop apologizing for Cruella de Vil? Her villain status does not come from being a boss bitch or rebellious, misunderstood woman, it's because she wants to murder puppies. I am so not looking forward to the live action movie. She's a great and terrifying villain. I don't want her to become an antihero or victim.
Otherwise: great trope analysis. Thank you for the entertaining and thoughtful video.
Well a lot of humans murder animals to wear their skin. She is not the ultimate villian because of that.
Louder ✨
Yes, it makes me extremely suspicious when they're so willing to excuse animal abusers.
The Capricorn energy
As delighted as I was to see Fiona Goode at the end, I'm shocked by the absence of Michelle Pfeiffer as Ingrid in White Oleander! You can't include everybody, but that character was so complex with elements of villain and good. And I love the way in which she was melted or evaporated. To me how much she is probably the best example of an ice queen, even telling her daughter not to cry because they're the Vikings. Anybody agree?
Good call! And I agree, Pfeiffer's character in White Oleander was one of the best examples of this trope.
4:00 I‘ve got to add there that the original snow queen in the fairy tale was actually a pretty neutral character that one of the protagonists just happened to get pulled by her sledge + she is also kind of describe as someone who is more of a force of nature than an antagonist + she kinda also does her duties and her job in there (the reason why she left the one protagonist all by himself solving the riddle in the first place) + she didn’t even fight against the other protag or try to stop her, at most it were just the guards that were like „yeah, it’s actually our duty to protect our queen, but since your intentions are pure and you just want you friend back, we‘ll let you through.“
OLIVIER ARMSTRONG FROM FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST IS AN ICE QUEEN WHO’S NEVER TOLD SHE NEEDS TO DEFROST AND I LOVE HER FOR IT
I love her so much.
"fear will be her worst enemy"
Okay, let's make her fear her power!
Could you guys do a video on "The WASP/Karen conservative mom" and the opposite trope the "rebel" unadapted young-aged mom (like Lorelai from Gilmore Girls or Georgia from Ginny and Georgia)
They have done the Karen and The Bad Mom but would be nice if they done a video on disapproving parents
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 bruh i didn't know 😂😂😂, anyways thank you
@@rebecatorres999 They have alsp covered "the rebel" indepth with Ladybird. Mind you hitting the delinquent trope would be a good shout. Then you get to cover James Dean, Mods, Rockers, Punks and a wide range of alternative culture.
@@Firegen1 yeah lol i meant not exacly rebel, i used that term to describe the bad mom trope to kinda explain myself better but anyway 😂😂😂
they did a video on gilmore girls lorelai
"She's beautiful, alright. But she has a personality like the inside of a refrigerator."
- Bob Davis, You Were Never Lovelier
I agree, she's cool as a cucumber, but has a warm heart which she only shows to her most trusted friends. 💖
I feel like Elsa is a unique case
Concurred! Elsa, as shown as a child, was always compassionate and warm. She only became icy after accidentally hurting Anna, and being scared about potentially harming anyone else. 😢💔
@@trinaq More precisely, she became icy after her parents told her to "conceal, don't feel". Honestly her parents' terrible advice was the main driver for her iciness.
She was meant to be the 'bad guy' but once Let it go was written, they changed the plot.
So happy to see you include Rebecca! Such a wonderful character and her friendship with Keeley is goals.
That's interesting because "Frozen" in German is called "Die Eiskönigin" which means "the ice queen".
That is the title of the fairy tale, in English it is usually the snow queen
Cersei was the most complex and interesting character in GoT, no doubt. Would love to see a video analysis of her alone.
BEGGING for an "Enemies to Lovers" trope!!!! My idea of love is permanently skewed because of this trope!!!!
Mary, Queen of Scots isn't exactly an ice queen, not in real life nor in the 2018 film. In many ways Elizabeth embodies the Ice Queen trope, while also turning it on its head. Real people rarely stick to one trope.
But it's like to see someone else saw that movie besides me.
What an amazing presentation of what I previously thought to be a stereotype character.
I see a pattern in many female tropes here when looking at its history: they either need to redempt or die, while in modern times they are accepted and even teaches us about their own qualities.
It's the same with the Femme Fatale and the Weird Girl alike, and probably many more.
Good thing there are female storytellers nowadays.
Can we get a You Know it’s a Guillermo Del Toro Film If “
It’d be interesting to see your take on his work
It's so silly for the society to pit the ice queen against a younger woman, because she's so much better than that... Deep down, I personally think that the ice queen is indifferent about almost everyone around her, including younger women. She's given the title and association because men can't understand her
It is amazing that you know USSR “Snow queen” cartoon😍😍😍
I’m from Russia. And this film is a part of my childhood
I was wondering since you’ve talked about blondes and brunettes, have you guys ever thought about the fiery redhead trope or other tropes about redheads and gingers?
Wild the empathy given to the White Witch murderous fascist from Narnia compared to Harry Potter - the boy who sacrificed his own life to stop Wizard Hitler.
I love every character that jessica lange or sarah paulson plays, esp ice queen characters, which i don't consider it an insult to b called an ice queen
None of us have forgotten the Harry Potter video. And you went out of your way to defend the White Witch and Cruella de vil one of which is a dog killer...
Pretty sure my wife’s an Ice Queen but I’m her humble servant.
Wow this almost made me forget about the Harry video. Almost.
Well, they changed the title of that video, but it's their most controversial video to date, and has more dislikes than likes!
All good, just wait for the next vid about a white straight man and we'll get more hate
Yeah they blamed a boy who went true tons of trauma that he's not perfect
Cannot forget about that. So much victim blaming from a Channel, that preaches consciousness in Media, it was ridicoulous
I was almost forgetting... and then they tried to paint the witch from Narnia as someone "adhering to the category she was put into by society". Apparently, an abused teenager has to be the perfect hero no matter what but let's symphatize with an adult who froze an entire world out of spite.
I wonder if there is a difference between being an ice queen or being stoic, or would they be considered the same? And also when you did that video on the tough girl trope (or was it the femme fatale) a lot of them tend to not show emotion or are described as pretty icy, would those categories ever cross? I love when you come out with character studies, and give depth to the character or trope. In my experience, those 'ice queens' are often the ones that are the most sensitive and easily hurt, though they make it look easy by not showing it, they've either been hurt before and want to shut any pain out, the irony being is when they shut out the bad they shut out the good along with it.
Being stoic is not giving into despair or complaining in the face of hardship. Being an ice queen is burying all warm emotions. They are quite different.
You didn’t mention Regina from once upon a time or mal and Audrey from descendants
Ice queen from
Once upon a time
@@Missmagazinebura that was elsa
Can you do a video on voodoo/hoodoo and witch doctors!?
Because a lot of times in movies and shows they are mostly the bad guy, in opposition of european magic, or push into the background
It's quite revealing that the idea behind this trope is that women need to be always saved by a man that shows them that refusing love from men is wrong...
The Devil wears Prada is a magnificent movie!
Meryl Streep was unbelievable. 👍👏
My favorite Ice Queens are the ones who inspire everyone else to step up their game; purely by virtue of existing. Hellsing's Integra Hellsing is a shining blade forged from Elizabeth 1's "I may be a woman, but I have the heart of a king' speech. Even the most worthless of men would be dragged to battle by her charisma alone. Monster Prom, a dating simulator's, Vera Oberlin is a perfect reconstruction of the villainous Ice Queen. Wooing her requires the most work of any romance option. And if you win her at the end; it's as Consigliere to her Mafia Godmother.
Sorry guys, you have wrong credits here - 0:42 The Snow Queen (1957), created by SoyuzMultfilm in Soviet Union - not by Osiris Entertainment
it will be great if we see horror themes in the channel.... i'm a follower a long time, and this channel never disappoints... keep up the excellent work
I may be biased, but Elsa the warmest and compassionate person, who put other needs before her own and pushes people out of love away because of her ice powers