How to Troubleshoot a QD Control Box
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Franklin Electric AIM Manual: www.rcworst.com/Shared/conten...
In today's video, we are going to cover troubleshooting a franklin electric QD submersible well pump control box. We are going to share with you some money saving tips to test your own equipment and determine what is wrong before calling a professional.
Before we begin I want to remind everyone that working with electricity can be very dangerous especially if you are inexperienced so be sure to always use caution working with electricity and turn off power supply breakers when testing components within the electrical system. If during testing you are not 100% confident you can perform any of these tests safely call a professional.
Inside the QD control box, there are going to only be 2 or 3 main components depending on the model. The standard QD’s have 2 components, the Start Capacitor and the QD Relay. There is also a QD CRC model which also has a run capacitor. The way that the standard QD box works is the power comes in here, L1, L2, and the pump wires land here, R, Y, B and red is the start winding, yellow is the common line, black is the run winding. When the box receives power the relay sends power through the black wire (main winding) and down to the pump additionally the yellow being a for line voltage is always energized, after a fraction of a second the power running through black wire (main winding) energizes the triac within the relay which allows current to flow through the red wire (start capacitor/winding) as the motor approaches running speed, the phase angle between the start current and line current becomes nearly in phase. At this point, the triac turns off which removes voltage from the red wire and start capacitor. On the CRC boxes, everything is almost identical other than when the relay switches from the start capacitor to the run capacitor.
So let’s start by checking the capacitor or capacitors depending on your model.
Using your ohmmeter, set your meter to R x 1,000.
Place your meter leads one on either of the contactors terminals
If good, the pointer should swing toward zero, then back to infinity.
One important thing to note is that when testing the capacitors it is possible for the capacitor to test okay but may have lost some capacitance and may no longer function so be wary of these situations.
Next, we will test the QD Relay
First, we will perform what is known as the triac test:
Using your ohmmeter, set your meter to R x 1,000
Connect meter leads to Cap and B terminals
Correct meter reading: Infinity for all models
The second test we will perform is the coil test
Using your ohmmeter, set your meter to R x 1
Connect meter leads to L1 and B
Correct meter reading: Zero ohms for all models
Now that all components have been tested assuming the problem persists we will begin performing the voltage and amperage tests.
Warning: The power must be on for these tests. Do not touch any live parts.
If you are not comfortable or are inexperienced working with hot wires contact a professional.
First, ensure the motor is off.
Measure voltage at L1 and L2 of pressure switch or line contactor.
Voltage reading: Should be +/- 10% motor rating.
The second test the requires the motor be running
Measure voltage at the load side of pressure switch or line contactor with the pump running.
Voltage reading: should remain the same except for slight dip on starting. Excessive voltage drop can be caused by loose connections, bad contacts, ground faults, or inadequate power supply.
Relay chatter is caused by low voltage or ground faults
And that’s it! We have successfully tested each component within the control box. If you did not find anything wrong, it's time to test the pump and motor assuming you have already gone through the troubleshooting overview video prior to this one. If not, go back and check that video out and we can meet back up during part 4 of this series Troubleshooting the Submersible Well pump & Wire.
If you need more information or assistance with products, call 855.329.4519 or email Customer.Service@RCWorst.com to speak with an industry expert. Thanks for watching!
Visit Our Website: RCWorst.com
By far the best information on the internet and on CZcams. Regarding this subject, I wish you were doing close ups of the procedures for those of us New to this. Please do another video of this with close ups, thanks.
Just tested my QD controller start capacitor and it is absolutely dead. Explains the problems I have been having. Thank you for this helpful video.
Glad it helped!
What was your problem?
Thanks! just what we needed to know, and a few what if's as well.
This was very helpful, I was getting an ohm reading of about 20 across the relay and couldn't find a replacement on a Saturday. Just replaced the whole box that's been there for at least 20 years
Thank you for these excellent videos.
Your videos on this subject are GREAT! You explain things VERY well! Thanks!
Glad you like them!
Thanks! This helped me diagnose a bad capacitor.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks, I wasn't sure what was wrong with my well, it wasn't working at all but it turns out the capacitor was bad, no Ohms reading at all, changed the control box and it's working. the capacitor on the new control box has three wires to it but it works, my old one was the exact same as the one you used as an example.
Happy to hear you were able to get it goin!
What brand of tester did you use
Thanks for all the videos you guys have made, they've proved very useful. I have one question after running through the steps in this video. When checking the "cap" and "B" terminals on the triac, my meter started out showing infinity ("0L"), but after about two seconds, the resistance started decreasing, and went down to about 12 megohms. Is this a problem? (And if it is, is there any way to buy just that relay? I got the part no. off of it and searched, but can't find it listed anywhere!)
Thanks! Big help. Looks like our capacitor is the problem.
Why does my capaserder keep burning out
Excellent video. It would've nice to see a close-up of the meter display, but your descriptions were sufficient. The only thing I would have really liked to see is what readings should we see if the pressure switch was at cut-out (high level achieved/rest).
Thanks your a life saver had a bad relay in my control box!!
Glad I could help
Very detailed and clear instructions for sure. I'm old and would ask for close ups off the test points. Keep then coming!
Thanks very much,
Chad
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@Devin Reese instablaster ;)
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@Briggs Jaxon it worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
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@Devin Reese glad I could help xD
Nice man your saving lives
Thanks for a really nice set of videos.
I got my pump running this morning just by taking the cover off the pressure switch, after shutting off the breaker. I looked at it and didn't see anything wrong, so I put cover back on, closed the breaker, and voila! It started running!
What is the make and model of your inexpensive meter?
Thanks!
Ok i would like to know your qd box is good but if you got a wire going to the deep well pump that has a short can you bypass some wires to make the pump work.
Excellent video. I will scroll through your other videos. Trouble shooting why if I turn on a faucet I'll have pressure sometimes and other times a trickle. I just replaced pressure tank, all the plumbing and pressure control switch. I have the same control box that is in your video. I have a 30/50 pressure switch, I set my tank (32 gallon) to 28 pounds, yet I am still getting a random water pressure from the faucet sometimes steady flow other times a trickle. Any ideas what I should check next? Thanks
What is happening on your pressure gauge when the water stops? If it is acting erratic then it could be that the pressure switch is clogged and needs to be replaced.
What do you turn the voltage meter to when you check each park
Thanks for the video. My question is my control box has a Mallory 59mfd Capacitor which I think is bad. The capacitor has three wires coming out of it, a main (B), one going to L2 and one going to number 1 on the relay. Most of the capacitors I see as replacements have 2 wires. Is this normal? The numbers on mine are 275461-108 220VAC. Any help would be appreciated.
Just an update, My Franklin Box number is 2301050101 1/2hp, it might be 280 in the front, the tag is really hard to read. Thanks.
Have you ever done videos on grundfus pumps?
My well pump quit working yesterday, I'm going out of town I 2 weeks and I have 2,000 gallons stored until I solved problem. I have voltage to the definite purpose connector but no power to the control panel which then goes to the pump. When I manually depress the contact in the dpc. It just hums and their is power to the control panel but tested with the cover off. Suggestions? Thank you for the videos ,they are helpful.
What does it mean if the resistance reading on the capacitors does not show any numbers, just infinite resistance?
Thanks so I just did those because my well stopped pumping without warning during the present 11 days of non-stop sun and 30 degrees while I'm repairing patio/deck every day with no house water suddenly, after pumping fine through the previous 6 weeks of unusual cloud and masses of rain I could have caught in barrels if I could foretell the future. Please note everybody per 4:07 that C A P stands for "CAP" in case you thought it stood for "CAT" (sorry about that). Is the capacitor a timer ? Is it that there's a transition from longer to shorter windings after start-up timeout ? (Can't be Y-Delta transition because it's 1-phase) ? Or maybe it's capacitive (heat-less) resistance pushing back against the 240V potential, I suppose it's the latter.
I want to know if i can add an additional relay to this QD control box which can be activated by an irrigation controller? Thanks.
You sure can. Make sure the relay is rated for the amperage of your pump if you don't intend on using a separate contactor.
The video is good but how do you check when you have a low pressure cut off pressure switch?
Another problem that can occur is that the contacts on the lid, where the capacitor and relay are attached, may not come into firm contact with the contacts on the box where the wires are connected. Vibration over a period of time could cause enough corrosion on a non-firm contact to stop power from going to the capacitor. I found this out by light banging on the box, and the pump started.
Good Tip!
Thank you for your wonderful and informative videos, R.C. Would it be possible to make a video of how to bypass the control box, just to verify that the problem is with the box?
The control box houses the needed starting components, so there is no way to bypass the box and turn the pump on without it.
I am having an issue where my pump stops after 15 seconds. I have a 1hp qd control box with a pump saver. I removed the pump saver and still have the same results. If I cycle power it turns on and delivers water for 10 to 15 seconds again. I don’t think my well is dry because it continues to deliver water when I cycle. I have tested my pump leads and all seem within spec. I got some weird results originally with my cap, so I ended up just replacing the whole box, still having the same issue. Couple my pump just be old and hitting thermal overload or something?
What does it mean if the voltage doesn't spike back up?
Would love to see you do this test with a analog meter.... Please
We'll add it to the list! :)
I did this test exactly as described and the readings came back showing the capacitor and the relay were in good order, however, the control box was NOT good when placed in service???? Hmmm???
Do voltage check on line 1 to y and b and r and so same to line2
What if you test L1 by itself would it read 120 and L2 by itself would it read 120
If you measure the voltage of the yellow, black, and red wires connected to ground coming out of the box what should the values be? Mine is L1 to L2 coming into the box is 243 volts. Coming out of the box with the pump disconnected is Black to ground 114 volts, yellow to ground 108 volts, and Red to ground is about 2.5 volts.
All of those numbers look good. The red wire is only energized for a split second to start the pump, then it runs off the yellow and black.
Thank you 🌹
You’re welcome 😊
So if it does nothing at all it’s bad? Right?
My relay is saying 175 ohms between CAP and “B”, what does that mean?
My capacitor has a spec range of 86-103uF, but only measures 20 to 50 variably, and was leaking oil. Problem was the line circuit breaker trips after about 10 sec. Does it sound like the problem is the capacitor in my QD control box?
Leaking oil is a dead giveaway the cap is bad and needs replaced.
How do you know what terminal to wire when replacing a capacitor?
Late reply, but a capacitor isn't directional. One two terminal capacitors, you just connect them. When you get to specialty capacitors, which a/c units with more terminals, then you have to pay attention. Generally those are 2 capacitors in one package, and will have markings on them.
Heard an extremely loud POP during dinner. The Capacitor in the control box was the popping noise. The capacitor blew apart and is in several pieces in the control box. Why did it blow apart like that? Switched off well pump at the electric box. $125 to replace the capacitor. Hope that is the only thing that needs to be replaced.
My well breaker in the main breaker box keeps kicking, sometimes a couple times a day, sometimes only once, I ordered a new control box but it’s not here yet, could it be as simple as changing the box out or is there another possibility? The water works fine, same pressure and all, it just kicks the breaker, thanks 🙏 for any advice.
There are a number of things it could be such as sediment buildup in the pump, a knick in the wire, old motor, etc. If the new control box does not solve the issue give us a call: 855.329.4519
R.C. Worst & Co., Inc., thanks so very much sir.
Better discharge that start cap first! Only way to get the right readings and not to get a bad shock. Always short the terminals between tests because you are loading the capacitor to 9 volts or whatever voltage dc your meter employs.
Right you are!
I dont have water when I turn the well on at the breaker the control box starts to smoke
My capacitor stop reading at 38.1. Does that mean it needs replaced we’re getting constant water but barely coming out.
If the pump is starting then the capacitor is likely fine. Check out our other troubleshooting videos or give us a call: 855.329.4519
Mine shows .5 from B to LI. That means its bad?
If the white dot is bulging, us that indicative of failure or normal?
Any bulging or leakage indicates a failed capacitor.
Do all well pump systems have a control box?
2-wire pumps do not, learn more here: czcams.com/video/86oOOCKJgWg/video.html
How do you trouble shoot if you are not getting any voltage to the QD control box?
Hi there how you doing I have the same issue I don't have any voltage coming to control box. What do you do. Did you found de issue?
Well I don't have a clamp on amp meter but I do have a standard meter and so I skinned the wires coming out of the control box and noticed while I had power into the box that I had none coming out. I really hope it's a $80 box and I don't have to pull this pump 400' out of the ground again. 😅
When I test the compassitor my meter goes from OL TO 00.0 AND STAYS THERE METER IS SET ON 200K OHM IS THAT the right reading. I should have? The problem I'm having is no water psi really. My pump keeps turning on an off on and off?
Please give us a call for help troubleshooting: 855.329.4519
Now what if I have checked my microferrads and its higher than what the capacitor states. What does that mean?
What reading did you get and what's the rating on the capacitor?
@@RCworstwater the rating was 83-158 I believe and I was getting around 230 microferrads.
So if my little button type thing on my capacitor turns yellow, it's bad ??
More than likely, yes.
We replaced the fuse in the box, but now its sparking. Why?
he pvc about 5 inch from the ground is leaking how do i stop the water from coming out of the well so I can glue new pip
Turn the power off to it
power is off its like a artesian well is 3 inch going in ground with 1 inch inside of it
@@JC-so4ey You'll need to call an excavator or someone to come out and plug the pipe and install a valve so you can shut the water off and repair the pipe.
can not plug my well would not have any water and no valve have to have 1 inch pipe going in to well would a rubber no hub couplingor any glue for running waterthank u
My well pump was running unreliably, and I finally discovered that the L2 contacts between the rear and front cover was misaligned. It was not a secure connection and was shorting and heating up even though the pump still got power.
What were the symptoms of your pump when this was occurring?
im still trying to figure out why some systems have just a pressure switch... and other systems have both a pressure switch and a control box..
2-Wire (+ground) pumps have all of the starting components located within the motor. 3-wire (+ ground) pumps DO NOT have the starting components in them, instead they are housed in the control box for easier maintenance should they fail.
With 2-wire pumps, if any of the starting components fail you have to pull the pump. They are also limited to 1.5 HP, anything large would be 3-wire and require a control box.
A control box in your home is easier to get to than a pump motor 350 feet underground.
Number of Capacitor?
Should of waited for the capacitor holding a charge comment before starting lol ouch
Very well done. I can't believe that you don't have more views. For me you have without a doubt BEST systematic step by step progression how to diagnose issues and I am grateful for your videos....it's making my life so much easier right now :-). By the way to the comment about the wires where you hung the clamp meter. I don't feel you have to explain it because (at least) on my QD franklin box it actually says what wires you need to check for amps. I still haven't resolved my issue but if I do get about 9 amps going to the well then it must be frozen line because everything else checked out well. By the way thank you for explaining in another video how to diagnose the relay and capacitor......you're the only one who did that on youtube as far as I can tell.
Your site and this video have been very helpful. Thanks much.
3 wire pumps require a start cap hence the 3rd wire. 2 wire pumps do not need a need a cap or relay.
You could improve your instructional videos by filling the viewfinder with the control device with out the inclusion of the guy. And the camera is not even focused
Thanks for the suggestions. We will be working on better camera shots in our future videos.
@@RCworstwater I look forward to more close ups of the subject at hand
Not done very well give it a70
Thanks for the feedback!
R.C. Worst & Co., Inc. ya man everything was done well except you didnt take the time to explain were you were touching your probes or what wires you hung the meter on for amps. Dont you think people need to know those things?