It's too bad starter / alternator etc. rebuilds are no longer the norm... "Just buy a new one". Thank you for the informative and well shot video and for the glimpse to the past.
Evening Steve. This is like being in school with a fantastic teacher lol 😂 I always enjoy your videos no matter what your up to in your workshop or home 🤣 Keep safe and take care as always cheers Stevie 😎🇬🇧
Brilliant explanation of the starter motor. I used to work on the starter of my -73 Mini, it always needed som care every spring after being soaked in salty snow, water and mud through the winter months.
Thanks for the video. I have an old outboard starter that I tried to rebuild, but didn't know which contacts to check for continuity. Loving the rebuild of Old Rusty! And the brushes are a pain!
To install brushes, use the spring to hold the brush in it's holder by pulling it right back, then kink the brush over slightly so it's leaning slightly. the spring is then allowed to sit against the side of the brush, locking it in it's holder when the end plate is fitted with Armature in place. ,the brush is just pushed into place and the spring will automatically pop onto the top of the brush holding it down against the commutator.. I have a hook used for pulling the springs up ,made about 50 years ago from a broken hacksaw blade. PS, regarding location of oil holes, they are Always positioned opposite the load surface ( in your case the load is on the top) as a small vacuum is present in that area whilst in operation. this is found on all oiled machines regardless of type.
This starter motor has no solonoid as you said,but the engagement of the Bendix to movement forward is clear, engine starts and runs and the Bendix returns_____ but why this when it is going against the power that activated forward in the first place? I am a great fan of yours and learn a lot from the detailed ,patient, explanation of everything. Are you a lecturer as well as a skilled technician? Your teaching skills tell us that you are. Go on, tell us Greeting from |reland Leo.
i know Im randomly asking but does any of you know of a method to log back into an instagram account? I was dumb lost my login password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
@Caspian Emerson Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
As a kid my dad taught me how motors work by building a motor from scratch. We used bent nails to wrap our wire on! It was a project I'll never forget! ...Newk from Kentucky USA
@@D3Sshooter Sir, I respect your humility and knowledge. I commented because I once owned a 1996 Singer Vogue and occasionally had to do similar repairs to the starter, Lucas D40 generator and the water pump. Luckily parts were available. Nowadays young DIYers would not be familiar with such type of repairs so your video may appeal to some curious ones.
Thank you for this video. I’m refurbishing an old Caterpillar 6 volt starter motor, which is very similar, but not quite identical to yours. Watching you pull your starter apart let me figure out what I was missing in the disassembly process of mine. I have also noticed that my starter appears to be missing the bendix gear return spring which is a fairly major issue…
Thank you for providing this quality content! My 1950 Desoto has a very similar starter motor which is very weak. I hope to do the same procedure and repair it.
Smashing video :-D, You made it very clear and the correct names for the armature/commutators, some people keep wrongly saying 'rotor and stator', that is for alternators. Make sure the bendix and shaft has a light coat of oil. I used to work in an auto factory.
Great video! Would have loved to had more explanation on the continuity of the commutator and a comparison to one that is wired differently. Thanks for the detail you did go into.
Thank you , very good info for sure, I am working on a starter (6v) that was rebuilt a year ago, I was unsure how to test the magnets in the housing, Hope now I can check them out.
Hello again from Finland. Nice training vid everyone who donot understand car starter motors. I have ferguson TEA20 year 54 in my carage. I have almost my life been with tractors, trucks, cars, and busses. Tea 20 starter works similiair. I have Mf35 61 Perkins 3.152 motor and Valmet 500 70 too. Valmet 500 was made in Finland. Look tractordata. All the best for You. Wishes I , Pimudog and Mickeycat. In Finland Mickey is simlpy Mikki.. Mickey is now ten years old.. or Young..
Very interesting videos, looking forward to hear Old Rusty start Love your English with the Flemish accent, I've lived in Antwerp for 10 years (Berchem)
Fairly good go-over of the starter. My only comment would be that the commutator contacts need to insulate from each other. Little bits of the brushes wear off and get in between them and short them one to another. Those little bits do not carry the high current of the armature, but they are not good, either. My uncle had an electric motor rewind shop and I used to visit in my youth and watch the techs work on various motors, including occasionally ones like this. They would take a kind of hack saw blade and work it between the commutator contacts, then blow the slot out. This would make little ridges at the edges, which got fixed by turning down or like you did with the sandpaper, although you have to once again check and blow out. They should not short to adjacent contacts.
Denis , you stated "the commutator contacts need to insulate from each other". That is indeed a common standard and typical combined with a 180 degree test. But this winding is different, and between adjacent segments its ok to have continuity.
@@D3Sshooter If adjacent segments have continuity, all segments are shorted to each other, which CANNOT be right. The only saving grace is that the connections are not high current, as I mentioned above. It is better to clean between them so that segments do not short to each other.
For starter solenoids - when I was working on cars a lot many years ago, it was common for the starter solenoid to be mounted on the inner fender or the firewall.
Oh my, what a great teacher. I am a senior with a couple of older vehicles that I need to work on. Kids have busy lives and I like to get dirty anyway so I can do some, right?
@@dobleclanger Well you are right, as a Muslim and Arab man - Egyptian for specific, we respect old people very much and we consider them the source of wisdom and knowledge, we never insult any body whatever is his age, insulting is forbeddin in Islam, so by calling some one "an old man" or "an old" for general, you just elevate him and upgrade his level respect to you. We respect and help old people generally, whether they where parts of your family or even strangers. That was my point of view and how I phrased the words up
Amazing video! Starters have always been a mystery to me, but this explained it perfectly! I'm going to be cleaning a 60 year old starter I have now. Do you think it would be safe to soak in carb cleaner? And that insulation tape you used. Do I HAVE to use that, or could I use a liquid gasket in it's place?
Its a good idea to soak the bushes in motor oil for 24 hrs rather than just putting copper-grease on as it tends to dry out. You can pull the springs back and move them to one side and the brushes will go out and in easily. Don't use oil on the bendix, clean it and rub the sliding surfaces with a soft pencil.
A 6 volt starter will work on a 12 volt system, at least the Chevrolet 6 volt starters did. They would put out a lot more power than their 12 volt replacements, some people put them on in the early day of the small block V8 when they put a lot of compression into the engine and the 12 volt starters would not work as well. The windings of the 6 volt used a larger wire and the insulation would withstand the voltage, of course the batteries didn't like you to hold the starter engaged for a long period of time and sometimes the increased current draw would melt the internal connection to the battery post but they had a lot of torque.
Thanks for the comments Roy, Indeed the main thing here is the current as that doubles at 12V. So, that could indeed be an issue for the 12Volts battery drain... Something I should try out. Good tip, thank you..
You can use a 12 volt battery on a 6 volt starter by introducing a resistor. In this case by connecting the positive to a length of water pipe or rod as a resistor. You will need to use the multimeter along the length to find a point that will get you closer to 6 volts - like a rheostat. All components will need to be mounted - wood and cardboard are good insulators - to prevent shorting and safety glasses worn. This is for a quick test, as the pipe or rod will heat up if a test component is run for long time.
I like your "Dee Double You 40". I'm copying it already! Hoped you showed how you figured out if it was a 6 or a 12 Volt. Maybe I have to show some patience. Great job, anyway.
I have a eldorado starter problems in a 2001North Star free spinning not engaging will not stop without discovering battery is sister bad or is a different problem
Can I ask you, what do you call the adhesive paper you wrapped around the brush opening? I have the same problem on my starter where the metal strap has rusted through
He called it insulation tape, but not sure why it looks textured. *Auto shop should have it. Looks different to electricians tape though - that's just rubbery plastic colored tape. The one he uses looks thick and imbedded with something solid or granular.
thanks for this - is there a link to a parts house for motor parts? different armatures, brushes etc... my spring on brush holder rusted off....so that ring needs replacing but i lack the vocabulary...thanks in advance
Hi shooter Iv got a Fiat 128 Rally 1974 Do you know why starter keep cranking and not start, i had to take of battery cable to stop it. After days strangle i find out the points it self touchinng earth. Plastic of the points melded and so touch earth. Well after fix the points iv got spark and starter stop keep cranking. And problem solves now. On my coil i got 3 wires. 1. Ignition wire on + 2. Wire go to points - 3. Wire on - also. This wire i got no idee where it go. How can points that not work good like this. Make the starter keep on cranking. This confuse me totale 😁
I was watching you video and noticed that the bendix did not spring out when the motor turned. I am wondering if this starter is a positive ground and was turning the motor the wrong direction?
I have a starter that just draws current once power is applied to that power terminal on case after I bypass the solenoid but the starter doesn't spin but sit there and the battery terminal sizzels.
When you measured the case you said nice continuity, what resistance roughly should it read between the power terminal on case to each brush? A few ohms??
@@D3Sshooter I would have thought even with coils in rotary having a short to another coil that the motor would still turn but poorly and not completey short out the supply from the battery lead.
OLD SCHOOL , txs but it is negative ground. The bendix did move a little . Since i do not have the needed amperage to have a quick zero to rotation time the bendix did not move enough. Remember that the bendix moves forewards due its inertion. Soon we will it when de flywheel is and i have a 6 V battery
@@D3Sshooter OK- maybe just the illusion due to camera strobing, it looked like it was turning backwards and that would not allow the bendix to engage.
Been a long time since I thought about rebuilding electrical components. I used to have a Ford Thames van with Lucas electrics. I got to rebuild the starter motor and generator annually. Nice to have designs that allow rebuilding, not so nice that they were such poor quality.
Your explanation of how the commutator and brushes work is very muddled. For a motor to spin it only needs 2 segments on the commutator. The extra segments are not to make it spin but to make it spin smoother. Your motor requires 4 segments due to the 2 additional brushes for the field coils.
no need for a solenoid when you have a foot switch to connect the starter its old school Turning and undercutting of electric motor commutators are performed for various reasons, but most notably for preventative maintenance. For example: these services promote the uniform wear of motor or generator carbon brushes, which will extend the brush life.
It's too bad starter / alternator etc. rebuilds are no longer the norm... "Just buy a new one".
Thank you for the informative and well shot video and for the glimpse to the past.
TXS for the comments
TXS for the comments
Absolutely the best video ever on starters, thank you
Very thorough explanation. Thank you for taking the time to share your process
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video. You explained everything and kept it simple.
Thanks for sharing.
Evening Steve. This is like being in school with a fantastic teacher lol 😂 I always enjoy your videos no matter what your up to in your workshop or home 🤣 Keep safe and take care as always cheers Stevie 😎🇬🇧
Wow, thank you
You are an awesome teacher. I am surprised there are not more views it should be a million. Thank you for that thorough explanation.
Brilliant explanation of the starter motor. I used to work on the starter of my -73 Mini, it always needed som care every spring after being soaked in salty snow, water and mud through the winter months.
Glad it helped
Thank you for the detailed explanation. You are a teacher without a classroom. Cheers.
Wow, thanks!
Great explanation - i enjoy all your videos and your knowledge of "everything". Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for the knowledge brother. Greatly appreciated!
Any time!
Thanks for the video. I have an old outboard starter that I tried to rebuild, but didn't know which contacts to check for continuity. Loving the rebuild of Old Rusty! And the brushes are a pain!
You're welcome!
Great explanation.......keep up the good work!
Thanks, will do!
Great video! Love your red/blue motor armature demo!
Thank you! Cheers!
To install brushes, use the spring to hold the brush in it's holder by pulling it right back, then kink the brush over slightly so it's leaning slightly. the spring is then allowed to sit against the side of the brush, locking it in it's holder when the end plate is fitted with Armature in place. ,the brush is just pushed into place and the spring will automatically pop onto the top of the brush holding it down against the commutator.. I have a hook used for pulling the springs up ,made about 50 years ago from a broken hacksaw blade.
PS, regarding location of oil holes, they are Always positioned opposite the load surface ( in your case the load is on the top) as a small vacuum is present in that area whilst in operation. this is found on all oiled machines regardless of type.
TXS for the comments, I learned something here -
This starter motor has no solonoid as you said,but the engagement of the Bendix to movement forward is clear,
engine starts and runs and the Bendix returns_____ but why this when it is going against the power that activated forward in
the first place?
I am a great fan of yours and learn a lot from the detailed ,patient, explanation of everything.
Are you a lecturer as well as a skilled technician? Your teaching skills tell us that you are. Go on, tell us
Greeting from |reland Leo.
Excellent lesson. Cheers Steve 👍 💯
Thanks 👍
i know Im randomly asking but does any of you know of a method to log back into an instagram account?
I was dumb lost my login password. I appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
@Fletcher Dominic Instablaster ;)
@Caspian Emerson Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out now.
I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Caspian Emerson It worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my account :D
As a kid my dad taught me how motors work by building a motor from scratch. We used bent nails to wrap our wire on! It was a project I'll never forget! ...Newk from Kentucky USA
TXS for the comments
Sir,. Your video appeared to be more a tutorial about the parts of a starter and the functions of those parts. Beginners would love your video.
Yes, you are right
@@D3Sshooter Sir, I respect your humility and knowledge. I commented because I once owned a 1996 Singer Vogue and occasionally had to do similar repairs to the starter, Lucas D40 generator and the water pump. Luckily parts were available.
Nowadays young DIYers would not be familiar with such type of repairs so your video may appeal to some curious ones.
Thank you for this video. I’m refurbishing an old Caterpillar 6 volt starter motor, which is very similar, but not quite identical to yours. Watching you pull your starter apart let me figure out what I was missing in the disassembly process of mine. I have also noticed that my starter appears to be missing the bendix gear return spring which is a fairly major issue…
Thank you for providing this quality content! My 1950 Desoto has a very similar starter motor which is very weak. I hope to do the same procedure and repair it.
Now that is a high quality rotor. You just don't see this in the newer ones. Just look at the commutators, damn.
TXS for the comments,
Smashing video :-D, You made it very clear and the correct names for the armature/commutators, some people keep wrongly saying 'rotor and stator', that is for alternators.
Make sure the bendix and shaft has a light coat of oil.
I used to work in an auto factory.
Glad it was helpful! and Thanks for the comments
This is great info, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Good working Sir 😊😊😊
Great video! Would have loved to had more explanation on the continuity of the commutator and a comparison to one that is wired differently. Thanks for the detail you did go into.
Great suggestion!
Thank you , very good info for sure, I am working on a starter (6v) that was rebuilt a year ago, I was unsure how to test the magnets in the housing, Hope now I can check them out.
Glad it helped
Great job! Excelent !!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Great explaination and informative... hopefullly u good dude...
Hello again from Finland. Nice training vid everyone who donot understand car starter motors. I have ferguson TEA20 year 54 in my carage. I have almost my life been with tractors, trucks, cars, and busses. Tea 20 starter works similiair. I have Mf35 61 Perkins 3.152 motor and Valmet 500 70 too. Valmet 500 was made in Finland. Look tractordata. All the best for You. Wishes I , Pimudog and Mickeycat. In Finland Mickey is simlpy Mikki.. Mickey is now ten years old.. or Young..
Thanks for sharing
Very interesting videos, looking forward to hear Old Rusty start
Love your English with the Flemish accent, I've lived in Antwerp for 10 years (Berchem)
Thanks for watching!
Excelent video 👍
great job
TXS for the comments
its a very good tutor to me that your work sir,thank you, i know that s now to me.
You are welcome
Fairly good go-over of the starter. My only comment would be that the commutator contacts need to insulate from each other. Little bits of the brushes wear off and get in between them and short them one to another. Those little bits do not carry the high current of the armature, but they are not good, either. My uncle had an electric motor rewind shop and I used to visit in my youth and watch the techs work on various motors, including occasionally ones like this. They would take a kind of hack saw blade and work it between the commutator contacts, then blow the slot out. This would make little ridges at the edges, which got fixed by turning down or like you did with the sandpaper, although you have to once again check and blow out. They should not short to adjacent contacts.
Denis , you stated "the commutator contacts need to insulate from each other". That is indeed a common standard and typical combined with a 180 degree test. But this winding is different, and between adjacent segments its ok to have continuity.
@@D3Sshooter If adjacent segments have continuity, all segments are shorted to each other, which CANNOT be right. The only saving grace is that the connections are not high current, as I mentioned above. It is better to clean between them so that segments do not short to each other.
For starter solenoids - when I was working on cars a lot many years ago, it was common for the starter solenoid to be mounted on the inner fender or the firewall.
TXS for the comments,
That would actually be a starter relay.
@@ercost60 Quite correct, but they were commonly called solenoids.
great video
Thanks for the visit
good job
Oh my, what a great teacher. I am a senior with a couple of older vehicles that I need to work on. Kids have busy lives and I like to get dirty anyway so I can do some, right?
You upload good videos great
Very clear sound good spoken englis
Very nice work from an old man 👍🏻, you need a clever mane like me to help you up 😄😄, keep up the good work, bless you ✌🏻
To call someone old is sometimes troubling or insulting, but I guess it's different in some parts of the world where it's an honor.
@@dobleclanger Well you are right, as a Muslim and Arab man - Egyptian for specific, we respect old people very much and we consider them the source of wisdom and knowledge, we never insult any body whatever is his age, insulting is forbeddin in Islam, so by calling some one "an old man" or "an old" for general, you just elevate him and upgrade his level respect to you. We respect and help old people generally, whether they where parts of your family or even strangers. That was my point of view and how I phrased the words up
Amazing video! Starters have always been a mystery to me, but this explained it perfectly!
I'm going to be cleaning a 60 year old starter I have now. Do you think it would be safe to soak in carb cleaner? And that insulation tape you used. Do I HAVE to use that, or could I use a liquid gasket in it's place?
good explaination point many point note down good
Its a good idea to soak the bushes in motor oil for 24 hrs rather than just putting copper-grease on as it tends to dry out. You can pull the springs back and move them to one side and the brushes will go out and in easily. Don't use oil on the bendix, clean it and rub the sliding surfaces with a soft pencil.
TXS for the comments, good tips
Do you know what would make it spin slow. thanks allot
A 6 volt starter will work on a 12 volt system, at least the Chevrolet 6 volt starters did. They would put out a lot more power than their 12 volt replacements, some people put them on in the early day of the small block V8 when they put a lot of compression into the engine and the 12 volt starters would not work as well. The windings of the 6 volt used a larger wire and the insulation would withstand the voltage, of course the batteries didn't like you to hold the starter engaged for a long period of time and sometimes the increased current draw would melt the internal connection to the battery post but they had a lot of torque.
Thanks for the comments Roy, Indeed the main thing here is the current as that doubles at 12V. So, that could indeed be an issue for the 12Volts battery drain... Something I should try out. Good tip, thank you..
Getting those bushes back in was a nightmare I had an 49 model prefect, it drove me mad.
TXS for the comments, tell me about it
You can use a 12 volt battery on a 6 volt starter by introducing a resistor. In this case by connecting the positive to a length of water pipe or rod as a resistor. You will need to use the multimeter along the length to find a point that will get you closer to 6 volts - like a rheostat. All components will need to be mounted - wood and cardboard are good insulators - to prevent shorting and safety glasses worn. This is for a quick test, as the pipe or rod will heat up if a test component is run for long time.
TXS for the comments, I see , Its all about U=I.R
شكرا احسنت عملا
I like your "Dee Double You 40". I'm copying it already! Hoped you showed how you figured out if it was a 6 or a 12 Volt. Maybe I have to show some patience. Great job, anyway.
Great suggestion! 6V was engraved in the housing
I have a eldorado starter problems in a 2001North Star free spinning not engaging will not stop without discovering battery is sister bad or is a different problem
Can I ask you, what do you call the adhesive paper you wrapped around the brush opening?
I have the same problem on my starter where the metal strap has rusted through
He called it insulation tape, but not sure why it looks textured. *Auto shop should have it. Looks different to electricians tape though - that's just rubbery plastic colored tape. The one he uses looks thick and imbedded with something solid or granular.
thanks for this - is there a link to a parts house for motor parts? different armatures, brushes etc... my spring on brush holder rusted off....so that ring needs replacing but i lack the vocabulary...thanks in advance
I get mine from Franssens
Hi shooter
Iv got a Fiat 128 Rally 1974
Do you know why starter keep cranking and not start, i had to take of battery cable to stop it.
After days strangle i find out the points it self touchinng earth. Plastic of the points melded and so touch earth.
Well after fix the points iv got spark and starter stop keep cranking.
And problem solves now.
On my coil i got 3 wires.
1. Ignition wire on +
2. Wire go to points -
3. Wire on - also. This wire i got no idee where it go.
How can points that not work good like this. Make the starter keep on cranking. This confuse me totale 😁
I was watching you video and noticed that the bendix did not spring out when the motor turned. I am wondering if this starter is a positive ground and was turning the motor the wrong direction?
Indeed, it moved a little bit, the reason is that the start current is not strong enough
You stated the use of copper grease. Would it not make sense to use a dielectric grease instead?
I have a starter that just draws current once power is applied to that power terminal on case after I bypass the solenoid but the starter doesn't spin but sit there and the battery terminal sizzels.
Thanks for the comments
When you measured the case you said nice continuity, what resistance roughly should it read between the power terminal on case to each brush? A few ohms??
yes indeed less then 2 Ohms
@@D3Sshooter I would have thought even with coils in rotary having a short to another coil that the motor would still turn but poorly and not completey short out the supply from the battery lead.
what does that springy part between the bendix and the armature do?
A shock absorber. Mechanism I think
Indeed a shock absorber when the small teeth wheel grips in the flywheel
hello, nice video ! what kind of a machine do you use at 2:47 to take of the two rusty nuts ? Can you give brand + type please ? Thanks
Pneumatic Impact wrench
Just pneumatic impact wrench, Chicago pneumatics
I don't think they work without an air compressor.
Should the bush in the center be isolated?
Not really
How long have you been working on this truck
several months, but I do other cars inbetween
How do you only have 27K subscribers?
TXS for the comments, I have no idea... I hope to get more... but maybe the channel is not good enough
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best :)
Thanks for the comments
The brushes look very worn , did you check against a new one , they are cheap and probably easily available even for this vehicle
TXS for the comments, I did check the dimensions and they are almost the same . 1-2 mm difference, so I kept the old
Invest in a bench vise. Your starter is a positive ground- during the test it was not rotating the right direction and the bendix was not working.
OLD SCHOOL , txs but it is negative ground. The bendix did move a little . Since i do not have the needed amperage to have a quick zero to rotation time the bendix did not move enough. Remember that the bendix moves forewards due its inertion. Soon we will it when de flywheel is and i have a 6 V battery
@@D3Sshooter OK- maybe just the illusion due to camera strobing, it looked like it was turning backwards and that would not allow the bendix to engage.
Is that 12v or 6v
that is a 6V, but you can start with 12V ( not prolonged of course and it could crack the bendix head)
El mil usos (The multitasking).
TXS for the comments
You need to invest in a bench vise.
Thanks for the comments and tips, I have a few mobile bench vise's
I think a few millenial kids brains locked up seeing this...
TXS for the comments, hahaha
Its not an electro magnet it is a permanent magnet.
Sorry David, these are electro magnets.
That old thing is so old it was using a mechanic selenoid its been repair many times we can see all the tin weld
Thanks for the comments
Been a long time since I thought about rebuilding electrical components. I used to have a Ford Thames van with Lucas electrics. I got to rebuild the starter motor and generator annually. Nice to have designs that allow rebuilding, not so nice that they were such poor quality.
Joseph Lucas = The Prince of Darkness
TXS for comments
Maggot Morrelli
Your explanation of how the commutator and brushes work is very muddled. For a motor to spin it only needs 2 segments on the commutator. The extra segments are not to make it spin but to make it spin smoother. Your motor requires 4 segments due to the 2 additional brushes for the field coils.
indeed , as that is what I tried to state...
I forgot
Hardly used starter like new
You know what are you doing ?
I hope so
no need for a solenoid when you have a foot switch to connect the starter its old school
Turning and undercutting of electric motor commutators are performed for various reasons, but most notably for preventative maintenance. For example: these services promote the uniform wear of motor or generator carbon brushes, which will extend the brush life.
Thanks for the comments
Okay, I'm GONE, THIS GUY HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S DOING!!!!!😡😡😡😡
No thanks , I am currently watching paint dry.....O.M.F.G
Sorry!
How can you make a video and NOT KNOW HOW TO TAKE IT APART 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡