I was laid off & can't find work (as a software engineer) (Longer Rant)
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- I already made a brief video detailing this situation (that you all loved!) so I’m once again opening up about my being laid off as a software engineer but with way more detail. I take you through my ups and downs, the challenges I've faced in finding new opportunities, but also in general as I debate continuing in this field. I also detail my (ideal) vision for a future in software engineering... but nothing is set in stone
Here’s what I’ll be discussing:
The Layoff: Details on how and why I was laid off, and my initial reactions.
Job Search Struggles: The difficulties I've encountered in the current job market, the hurdles of finding work and interviewing.
My Technical Strengths: Highlighting some of my skills, expertise, and the projects I’ve successfully completed.
Past Work: A deep dive into some of the work I've done so far, including key projects and accomplishments.
Future Goals: The kind of work I’m passionate about and aspire to do moving forward.
Industry Gripes: Honest insights into what I don’t like about the tech industry and how it could improve.
This video is not just about the challenges but also about perseverance, hope, and the pursuit of meaningful work. I hope my story resonates with you and maybe even helps those in similar situations.
🔔 Don’t forget to subscribe for more personal stories, career advice, and tech insights: / @jaulpanos
👍 Like this video if you find my journey relatable or insightful!
💬 Join the conversation: Share your experiences or advice in the comments below. How have you navigated career challenges?
📸 Follow me on Instagram for updates and behind-the-scenes content: exotics_engineer
Thank you for watching and supporting my channel. Your encouragement keeps me going!
#SoftwareEngineer #LaidOff #JobSearch #TechIndustry #CareerJourney #PersonalGrowth
Once again thank you all for the comments and thoughts. I'll try to go through as many of them as I can. Some of you have already said some really nice and or practical things and I appreciate it! Idk if I'm glad to be connecting with so many people over this unfortunate situation, but I am glad to be connecting with you all
EDIT: I'll be making a follow-up video to respond to some of the comments!
Any interesting in pivoting to AI and ML?
Ah, I just watched the last part of your video.
For ML and other AI topics. Spend more time working on projects and learning basics. It is just a basic tool like state machines, trees, dynamic programming. Spend some time using langchain or llamaindex with RAPTOR based RAG. Something simple and get your hands dirty. This will give you energy and excitement. Algoexpert does have a basic machine learning component if you get a discount on the package.
You got this! I mean you already got hired once, you will do it again. It might not be today, unfortunately, but you can do this
@@askholia thanks for the kind words!
I enjoy writing code, but I can't stand the industry.
I do feel the same I am Just a begginer though but I started foi rmyself to build something for me, I cant Take the idea of Being in from of a computer in a Office while the timing is slipping past out there.
It's ironic when coal minners went extinct coders where all shitty saying #learntocode . Now coders are facing the same shit. #learnplumbing
@@deliveryproductstore7548 lol you are so stupido man
@@TheThetruthmaster1 It's what happens to a career when everyone got a degree in it and everyone grinding leetcode. Then the degree and the leetcode no longer can help distinguish the quality and becomes less valuable. :/ IMO all SE need a specialization because simple coding task can easily be replaced by automation through AI. Gotta have a specialization also to distinguish yourself from the 50k other codes looking for jobs.
Look into the singularity group volunteer group. They work on projects with the intention of doing good in the world. plant based food and accommodation is covered.
nobody asks an experience accountant to do an hours worth of tax-planning on the spot with eyes watching, nobody asks a heart surgeon to crack open a chest during a live Interview ... why do software engineers put up with this nonsense ?!
PREACH 🙌
There’s a huge culture of elitism and superiority around the ability to solve these specific types of problems, since that’s all it takes to get into FAANG. Meanwhile, any good engineer is too busy building and maintaining the success of their company to play with toy problems. Companies, often afraid of bad hires, turn to FAANG’s interview techniques out of fear because “it must be a good way to evaluate candidates or FAANG wouldn’t do it”.
Well probably because they don't have books called become a heart surgeon in 21 hours that you can just read and claim you know how to do the job. To be heart surgeon you've gone through tons of schooling, residency and whatnot to back up your claims.
For software engineering you don't need any of that and to be honest, probably not for accounting either.
To be honest, I feel a lot of people that are "software engineers" probably don't fully live up to that title. Part of this is due to a number of factors, stack exchange/github where you can just copy and paste code, easy mode languages where you don't really have to any deep understanding of computer architectures, memory allocation, data structures and algorithms, etc...
Now, to add fuel to the fire, you have LLM's that will write the code for you. Granted it's terrible code for the most part, barely complies and for the use cases I've thrown at it gets it completely wrong. But people are relying on it and other things like copilots and what not.
So yeah given all that, I can see the need for coding interviews to see if you can actually solve problems.
Because there are a lot of frauds/imposters. But I still agree with your point
Right ... every interview do this Question and make this type of function lamb lamab so on..
Its not possible to write the code exact the same that's you want everycode need time for implementation. This want human become ai so its work as cheap price so one buy expensive ai tools
They need to get rid of:
-Cover letters
-Unpaid take home assignments
-Nonsense theoretical questions
I'm lucky that I've never had the second one before. But I've given up on cover letters. Definitely need to do away with the third one!
I prefer a short take home assignements to being asked a ton of leetcode. It all depends.
@@opa-age why’s that?
@@Thepippinator2 because it takes hundreds of hours to get ready for difficult leetcode. Take home projects are usually not a problem if you are a good engineer and are a good fit for the role.
I agree , a 2-4 hour take home is not bad and can quickly show your skills, but the live coding I hate because after the fact I always remember something I could of done better. With a take home I can take my time and do a much as I like
I was going through a divorce and lost my job in the early 2000's. It was the first time I didn't get a job right away, it almost took me 6 months and I was months away from living in my car. Scary time for me. I managed to get a job at a startup in LA and it went for almost a year and then I got back in a normal full time job. I had one interview in San Jose and the head hunters stopped calling after I failed one interview. I was lucky the economy came back but it could have been a depression that lasted longer. All I can say is this is the best thing in one way, you will save money after you get back one your feet. I remember a guy that worked at HP and was asked in a interview what the cost was for a electronic component and he failed the question and didn't get the gig. He was living in a barn on a friends farm for almost a year. He got back on his feet too. hang in there.
It's the American Dream.
@smallbluemachine You got to be asleep to believe it.
This is quite the story. But when things like this happen, it just makes you appreciate the little things that much more. So glad you got back on your feet! I will too (eventually lol)!
Perhaps its just my personality style but looking back over my career (I'm 54 now) going broke and climb back on my feet was the only times i truly felt alive!!! Whenever I was making good money for too many years in a row I may as well have been dead ..something in me was temporarily lost. Its probably this: Stressing about getting job/money/staying alive is like a video game providing you have no wife/kids. You are one man in a world of characters, its a war, and you need to fight.
@@stoneneils I have to say it's the same for me. I have to say it was a challenge to get back on my feet. I've noticed when my job got too predictable I would move on. I'm close to retirement and my job right now is a great place to work so I've stayed. I can promise I wouldn't have been on a corner with a help me sign. I would have done something to get by.
It's a goddamn insult! I ran C++ libraries at a Microsoft, then later a Principal in MSR. Been CEO of multiple startups. Then went to do some contract at Tom Tom and they start giving me questions on the Pythagoras theorem. I'm completely done with this industry. I don't need it. I have been doing advanced crap since the 70s and kept on top of the field. Everything from distributed database design to advanced graphics engines and AI. Get out of here with this low level interview crap. Whatever. Now I make music and have fun. Screw those people. I'm with you brother. Take it easy. It's their loss not yours. ❤❤❤
100% agree. The title "software engineer" portends status but is meaningless as you get older. I saw an experienced software developer treated like crap at my last company because of his age. He complained that his wife made more as a triage nurse. There is nothing more shameful than getting into this field. Now I just make silly videos and apps that feed users bad human attributes. I don't care anymore about ethics in my app or anything at all.
@dollarette Hehehe your alright mate 👌 🤣 👍 Love it ❤️ It just takes a while to come to terms with but we get there. I still get moments when I accidentally pay attention and want to shout "wtf are you doing!" to the whole industry, but not my problem anymore. I'm also happy making my silly music videos and text games of Hammurabi with GPT agents as the citizens 😂 they really start to cooperate when you unleash a natural disaster!! lol. You take it easy man. We're alright ❤️❤️💫
@@jumpstar9000 darn it took me a decade to figure this out. The IT industry has failed because unlike law, mechanical engineering, architecture, medicine, accounting.. well let's say ANY field requiring an education... there is no governing body for software workers. The field devolved into a nightmare of exploitation with only a few in the USA working for the largest companies, treated reasonably well with stock options. I don't even know how well they are treated. Glad you also discovered this truth. My child will definitely have nothing to do with the industry.
The fact that you have significantly more experience than me but still had to go through the same bull crap, scares the hell out of me. Maybe I need to pivot 😂 glad you are now enjoying being out of it!
@jaulpanos Hah, well, I had a good run. It wasn't all bad for a long time. It started sucking around 2012 and progressively went downhil from there. Meetings to talk about meetings. I got so sick of it that I stopped showing up for work at some point as a test, and nobody even noticed. That confirmed things were bad. 😅 It isn't all bad, of course, I'm sure there are pockets of fun everywhere. I think the best thing to do is pivot to not taking things so seriously and wasting the best years of your life chasing a Fugazi. At least if you know things are broken, at least you can entertain things with a bit of a wry smile. :-)
They will destroy you in the interview. You could be the most brilliant programmer, but when they put you in front of that whiteboard...they will say things like, "Technically, your answer is correct. But it wasn't the answer we were looking for." The interview is a way for the current employees to blow off steam by roasting a potential candidate.
Worse, a legal way to discriminate openly.
Yeah Apple laid off our team two years ago and I still can't find work. Now live in my parents basement at age 34, lost everything, wife left me, and can't provide for my kid. Car repo'd last week. Zero money in my bank account and can't transport anywhere. Life kinda sucks. I will own a mistake I made with a margin call too. Lost about 200K in savings thinking I could cover the call with my salary. And for those who say this is bs.. wake up. Layoffs have been soaring since 2022. First big tech now the rest. Banks are failing and you are the problem if you think that things are roses right now.
Dude.. you couldn’t be a server or something meanwhile? A CS teacher at a school?
@@briani466 From my experience (similar position to dj), I was laid off from companies closing 4x in the last 3 years. I had to make my own company, and skill up in 3 different domains, just to even have a (pitiful) paystream.
@@briani466 right? have been applying non-stop. Hopefully you don't find yourself in this situation because it's not easy out there.
I’m so sorry to hear that. There have been a lot of casualties like this in tech, with no way out
@@monkeyshinserman you are a good human. good karma headed your way
I’m in the UK and have been out of work for 11 months. I’ve never seen the market this bad for developers. Good luck to you.
Are they doing massive layoff in the UK too?
I wanted to persuie masters in CSE in UK as it's much cheaper than American but is it actually worth it? Or should I change my field to management and join MIM program in UK? I can't do MBA because I have 0 work experience and about to graduate next year in bachelor's degree so I can do MIM
@@Jaffy. TBH I don't know. I've not seen any reporting about it. I think it's mainly a hiring slowdown, and/or the industry is shifting money to AI engineering (which is not that easy to break into if you are say, a web developer like me). There's definitely jobs out there, but 100s apply for each position. In my own case at my last job, I was let go individually, but so were all the other recent hires at that job, and they backfilled with contractors.
@@calvinripley9093 I don't know that I can give reliable advice. I personally think software engineering as a career has maybe 5 years left tops. I hope I'm wrong, but I know of at least 5 software engineering AI startups. I think software design and QA might remain viable but the codemonkey aspect will likely be taken over by AI. Also, if you have your own startup ideas you might be okay (and probably empowered by AI). But in general I'd advise to do something that you find fulfilling (and hopefully it pays the rent).
Everyone looking to for jobs … why not help others with the talent ? Why not make your own software ? Why rely on others to create jobs and not help make jobs ? Why not create videos that teach? Why identify and put your self in a of by identifying as software engineer / coder / dev ? There is much more to it and logic does it come so on from knowing maths as there is real world scenarios where I have seen the smartest people become victims of their own mindsets
I feel 'ya. Back in 2012 I was laid off after 22 years as a Senior Software Engineer. I was laid off on a Friday and by Monday, my job appeared on the company job listings at half the salary I was getting. I spent a year applying for jobs with no luck. Finally, I just decided that it was time to call myself retired.
If you're old it's a double-whammy.
You have magnificent beard!
In short, they paid you too much😂
Right there with ya brother. I got outsourced after 25 yrs as a Telecom (VoIP) engineer. Here we all are laid off with years of experience that bring value to the industry and yet can't get work but some girl can be interviewed on the street and talk about spitting on a guys junk and she's making millions... What a country we have right?
@@quademasters249agreed. This decade taught youngsters to hate "boomers" and blame them for everything. These kids end up as hiring managers and look at you with contempt when you show up at the interview.
I would never, ever, suggest people study computer science. The more experience you gain, the worse you're treated as the technology outpaces you and employers consider software engineers as too old. Always choose a field that values experience, where knowledge elevates your status. The only way out of this shameful situation is to start a software company and hide behind a computer interface charging for every service. Be ruthless: over charge and underdeliver, string your customers along (especially those without technical knowledge), then close up your business or get another customer. Invest all your savings.
Software engineers face age discrimination?
@@boratsagdiyev522of course they. I am 50+ , and I see that. My sister is 50+ but she is doctor and the older she gets the more money she makes. My brother is lawyer, 60; and he charges now more than when he was 30. If I am 18 now, I would never go for IT / sw engineer
Hell yes! Older people are (should be) wiser, and so they kick us out before we catch onto their next scheme. There is truth to the expression "young and dumb". It doesn't mean stupid or poorly educated, but not yet street-wise to the sh*t people do.
@@boratsagdiyev522 Yup. A lot of startups are very gimmick focussed and are derisive about "dinosaurs" and their "old" technology i.e. established practices and frameworks/languages.
Yeah coding interviews absolutely suck for anyone other than recent graduates. They always ask you some question that someone would realistically spend a day coming up with a solution that will work forever, but they want you solve the problem in 15 minutes while being watched.
I saw an AI constant have requiring 12 years of AWS cloud experience. Most of AWS didn't exist 12 years ago...
Where do you have money for travel after paying for housing in US tech hubs?
I have been in this field for over 20 years. I can’t even recall one time where we used any of these algorithms. When we interview, we don’t give tests. We just go through a candidates experience, why they like doing what they’re doing, etc. these software interview questions today are a load of shit.
The sad reality is that since 2021 the number of laid off went from 151,000 to a total of 500,000 over 4 years. Structural unemployment is the great transformation coming to the tech field. The new book, The Bubble That Broke the Bank argues that hi-tech is one of the first victims of real estate crashes.
Software engineering is an extremely scary, unstable industry… I’ve had +30 jobs over the past 20 years, with dozens of “vacations” in between to recover between “jobs”. Been reinventing myself every 2-3 years to stay on top of the new techs. Extremely exhausting as you get older. Only escape route is to set up some sort of passive income/investment and move to become a “manager” ASAP and then just try to survive. Why so many no longer even dare to start a family. No stability anymore, no matter your skill level
Makes me think I should have learned plumbing or construction instead. Now every single SWE job requires 5-10 skills exclusive to that job (e.g. Azure, React, BigQuery, Kubernetes) and you must have perfect memory of all aspects of them, else you will fail the interview. You know React, but not Angular? T-SQL, but not BigQuery? Never worked specifically in Insuretech/Health/Industrial Automation. Off you go.
Thanks for the insight. This is very frightening to me... I've been thinking about trying something else for the long term, maybe I'll pivot
Yeah, you have to keep learning things that will be outdated very soon, only to repeat again.
@@cadcad-jm3pf That's my plan too. If programming ever become untenable, I think I might try welding. It's something I dabble with on the side.
@@cadcad-jm3pf I moved to software engineering from the trades (painting/plastering a bit of carpentry. It's a big thing right now - learn a skilled trade! Always have a job! EXCEPT it's not easy to become a plumber or a carpenter. And it's very hard on your body. People I know still in the trades 50+ are finding it harder and harder.
I cannot help much so sharing this link of a controversial figure, Jon Blow (a dev who made a successful indie game) about his thoughts on how people can limit themselves: czcams.com/video/6gakofGPZ6Q/video.html
i agree with most of jBlows arguments but his products are pretty mediocre. braid != cave story or stardew valley.
I e been working at a job for over a year and I’m moving to a new team. They just gave me an assignment Thursday, they want done by Monday. Expecting me to work over the weekend to build a fully functional web store with login and register, shopping cart, use web sockets, make it scalable, write tests, allow for product search and more. I’m not getting a raise or a new title. This is a placement test for a company I’ve worked at for a year plus. When asked, they basically want me to do something while they set up my accounts for this new team. Not review code, documentation, or shadow a team member. They want me to do a dam evaluation test….
Best part though, all this crap is on the internet so I’m literally going to copy someone else’s work and modify it to have less features so I get placed at a lower position so I have less responsibility. Because why look like a genius when I get the same pay as a fool.
Tech is a cesspit from top to bottom and across different branches. Get out while you stil can. You're still young enough to make a total switch.
ah shit I make a mistake choosing computer science route 💀
Honestly at this point if you’re smart enough to get a cs degree and have a software engineering job before. It’s best you learn some trade as a backup like being an electrician or hvac technician. It’s about to get pretty rough boys
How much can one person possibly do just to earn a stable income? Bro is an engineer, that alone requires full time attention
Quit my job over a year ago in one of those, "quit and get a nice severance or possibly get laid off later" situations. 12 year long career, been everything from a frontend web developer to a platform engineer. After a few months of looking for jobs, and 2 incredibly insulting interviews where the interviews arrived late and insisted I was a junior despite my experience (being a woman in tech is very fun), I started doing freelancing. Work is slow, and truthfully, I'm living mostly off my savings. I am debating swapping out of tech entirely. I taught myself how to code 20 years ago when I was 13. Tech has been my life's passion. The market right now is just insanely demoralizing.
Wow, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. I can empathize with your struggles but glad you're at least able to freelance. Maybe you could take this opportunity to try something outside of tech! That's where I'm at rn
I don't think being a woman is the issue. The industry is plagued by ah with huge egos who barely know about tech but are good at manipulating people, unfortunately
@@jaulpanos Thanks man. Yea, I'm considering that. A lot. I hope you're able to find success in whatever you choose next. Things are wild out there.
@@Jaime-eg4eb I'm not trying to pin the entirety of my negative experiences on me being a woman. If someone is going to be an asshole in the first place, yea, I am going to get caught up as much as anyone else. I fully agree that the industry has propelled too many egotistical people into positions of power.
@@Jaime-eg4eb This! It's hunger games there now 😅
The problem with software vs other jobs is that there's infinite ways to do things and the rate of change is fast.
If you are a doctor, knowledge changes but the human body is still the same.
If you are a physicist, chemist, traditional engineer, the laws of the physical world doesn't change.
If you are a lawyer, most of the legal system stays the same, some laws changes but not at a breakneck speed and the language stays the same.
If you are a software engineer...Hardware change, cloud tech changes, new tech everyday, new programming languages and tooling all the time, stuff done differently in every company. Sure some basics like how computers work and general control flow stays the same but everything else keeps changing
I've been at it for a long time in hands-on software development and even though things are always changing, there are general concepts about architecture, design, and problem solving that carry over time. Regarding medical doctors, the human body stays the same, but the work and schedules are typically very demanding and largely unforgiving in that they have to get it right with minimal mistakes because they're dealing with living patients, whereas in software we can often try different things with impunity, depending on the type of environment we work in. And software development does not require a massive investment in education and training to be qualified for the profession, as with doctors and less so with lawyers. It's a matter of what fits for the person.
Its like that Boards of Canada song, the constants are changing.
The constant change is what I liked about programming. Although it's a desk job, what you work on day to day can change dramatically. Also, you learn how to learn quickly. It helps to be thrown into new tech, get confused, then get a formal class. All the questions get answered. So I guess that was on the job apprenticeships. It was great. The cream always rose to the top.
Now the interview process doesn't allow on the job learning. They're asking new hires to know everything before walking in the door.
@@mettamorph4523 It has been like that since the 1990s, really. Companies don't want to sink money into a trainee who could then take a better offer several months later. I had worked as a programmer in some unusual proprietary languages from 1988 to 1995. I discovered that even though I thought "code is just code" that employers demanded specific training. I re-applied to a local college in 1996 (even though I already had a Comp Sci degree) just so that I could compete against other interns - and get some cash going again, and learn some marketable entry-level skills. Thankfully I learned enough VBscript and SQL on my own to surf into a few more jobs later.
I feel you bro. Layoffs are the worst. I got laid off in March, and the tech industry is in a plight right now.
I was a software tester in the 2010s. Took a job in 2013 at a company which demanded even QA people do technical support, and anything else they could throw at you. Was let go because I couldn't cut the mustard after 18 months. My career started tanking, and never recovered. Left it in 2017 and never went back.
I've noticed that the job searching experience of my fellow software engineers is very different and much more difficult than my own. I was part of the layoffs, like everyone else, but I'm a senior platform engineer, a subset of DevOps with about 15 years experience. Most of my technical interviews were very hands-on, emulating my real-life work experiences, which was a pleasant surprise; I was expecting the usual LeetCode stuff. Not to brag, but it was easy to get interviews, and I stupidly even forgot that I had one in all the mess and missed it. As a result, it didn't take long to find my next role.
Not saying you should change, but the experience has hinted to me that there is a skill shortage disparity between traditional software engineers and more operations-based roles.
That's interesting to hear. What kind of skills make up these "operations" type roles?
I have also noticed this. I’ve been able to 5x my regular programming output with AI tooling, but when I try the same with cloud solution architecture and devops I 0.25x my output with all the wasted time.
To name a few, my experiences involved using Linux, Kubernetes, AWS, GitHub Actions, etc. I am involved in managing production environments, building pipelines, and development environments for the software engineers.
Glad to hear that you found a new job so quickly! It definitely has to do with your years of experience, and I agree that pivoting into the operations-based roles was a good move. I'm not opposed to something similar, but I guess we will see how things play out for me
Sorry for what you are going through mate. Many company have unrealistic scenarios when it comes to interviews. They google some hard question and bring some concepts that nobody uses or cares about in real life.
This is just all too common now. I appreciate your story and insights. Wish everyone the best.
Hope all goes well and keep your head up! You got this. 💯
I’ve been a software engineer for over 20 years. I was laid off last month. I have always struggled with interviews even though I’ve developed many things. I refuse to do any leet code or other type of riddles during the interview process. I rather become a plumber. I will continue trying to get a job but will also try to start my own software business. If that doesn’t work I will leave the industry which regardless, only has 5-10 years left before most code and systems are designed by some sort of AI, controlled by some AI handler. One AI handler could replace 50-100 software engineers.
refuse to do leet code but you claim you know programing, youre a sham. do the code or go shovel shit 😂
I support this....I would like to join you in this new venture... creating a start up company.
Your understanding of software engineering and AI perhaps explains why you were let go.
@@theveryhungryghost4077 essentially yes, because for every one of ‘him’ I can find you 10 others who actually understand software engineering and AI who have companies (including yours truly) still contacting them regularly in a supposedly tough job market. If you are a good software engineer, you are eating well and are not fearing for your job, the LEAST from AI.
spot on... I feel the same.. I'm a Java developer with college, certifications and all stuff you can imagine.. I just hate this idea of job interview.. I now have a stable job but I keep planning to change careers to truck driving honestly
My previous employer was moving, taking the grant money with him, and laying off the entire office(well, he offered some of us to move but wouldn't pay for our move so I declined).
So, I applied to literally 1,000+ jobs over 2 months. I ended up getting 3 offers... It's rough out there. But I'm glad to have found a new job that pays 50% more than the last, started 3 weeks ago.
I have learned a lot from my many interviews, a lot of it actually comes down to just being able to socialize well, memorizing interview questions, and being honest with your shortcomings and how you'll overcome them. I didn't have issues with algorithm questions.
Like you said, you NEED to study. Some need to study more than others, I'd try to understand the logic behind anything you learn so that you can make assumptions/theories when similar things appear. I have used my vast knowledge A LOT in interviews, but I preface my answers with "I don't know x exactly, but I assume it's y because of z." If your answer is correct, then they know that you are logically smart regardless of being book smart. Being logically smart lets you catch onto many things quickly.
PLEASE APPLY TO JOBS FOR MULTIPLE HOURS A DAY! Do not be lazy. Keep applying, write cover letters, and adjust your resume. It's just a numbers game. They hire social fit over skill fit. They'd rather hire someone they enjoy that can grow than someone who only knows how to do their current role.
For the first week, I applied to every job posted in the last 2 weeks. Then, every morning I applied to every new job that I was a good fit for and that gave good benefits/pay. I just set it to the past 24 hours, adjusted responses/resumes/cover letters, then applied.
I'll sub to see how you do!
@@KevinEF
Underrated comment, but this is what it pretty much boils down to. It's literally just a numbers game.
@@russeldioneo5187if the numbers game ain't working, try something else
I feel you so much on this topic. Hope things can eventually work out for you soon; I worry about being in the situation you're in quite often, realizing that the endgame of this and related careers' standard interview processes rejects actual work experience in favor of brain teasers to try and select either the smartest (best generic problem solver) or most-leetcode-trained individual of the applicant pool. Wish you all the best.
I've been a software developer for 20+ years and still have to jump through the data structures and algorithm hoops to get an in person interview. I dislike it intensely too but that's how things are , resent it or not , that's the way to get a job these days. The alternative is to go freelance , find your own customers and skip the tests, which is easier said than done.
Good luck!
My opinion is the easier said than done about freelancing is equally as difficult as the current job market, but with much preferable end result.
They do the same tests withs freelancers too.
@@detlef3000 It really depends how you market yourself and to whom. If I go perm or contract yes I will get tested, but I've never been tested going freelance because the clients are usually not competent in my area enough to put together a test and test me. More done on trust and portfolio.
Thanks for honestly sharing your experience!
Hey man, I really feel your frustration and I personally went through similar situation. Thank you for sharing and keep making more videos.!
It took me 15 years of hard slog and low pay as a software engineer in order to become "established in the industry". After this I worked contracts that were obtained mostly by word of mouth. The interview process shifted from me explaining why I am the best person for the job to, well, them selling me the Job as if I were sitting there wondering, why should I work for you? I think the best approach is to take a job, any job, any pay. It is easier to find a better job when you are working than it is to find any job when you are not.
I've been a developer for 7 years. In full stack web apps, we only use JSON/dictionaries and lists of JSON objects.
THAT'S IT!!!!
even in my personal projects, its just queues/lists filled with object IDs or dictionary objects.
I've never heard of anyone i know IRL that has used a link list, binary tree search, etc (including other Senior software engineers)
That's wild but can relate, in my first job I exclusively used dictionaries in Python to organize a lot of the data and objects I was working with
I'm a newgrad and I implemented a BST in my open source project since I needed the data to be sorted while having no duplicates. Pretty cool datastructure.
In my 12 years of experience used a bst twice and DFS once
A mates partner spent 2 years going through various contacts and interviews with Google. After getting the job he did work that was the embedded software equivalent of turning a html button from blue to red. After a year or so of that he got retrenched in the great cull of ‘23. Having worked for Google will look good on his resume but that’s about all he got out of it.
Thank you for posting this helpful video. Best wishes to you.
Rookie mistake. You never turn down a job offer, because your current company is simply not going to give you a proper raise.
Well over one year following redundancy here without a single offer of work. Over ten hard fought years of experience across web stack, plus some embedded systems experience and an honours degree. Had to make the crushing decision last month to leave the space. The market is broken. Employers and hiring managers in this space have proven themselves by and large to be reckless, callous, short sighted and greedy. As the saying goes, it is often the scum that rises to the top.
Wow that's crazy. I'm 8 months into my first front-end dev job. If you're not worried about getting a huge salary you should come to Japan. They are hiring people with 1 year of self study and people who went to 2 month boot camps.
Japan has very long work hours, I worked for a Japanese companies and regretted working there, no work life
hey can you tell more on this? im working as a front end same as you (8 months) is there a language barrier there?
Doesn't sound legit. I have 8 years of experience and a degree in CS. Applied for jobs in Japan many times and did not receive any feedback whatsoever.
Doesn't sound real, from what I know it's not that easy for us to get a job there
@@cadcad-jm3pf Having at least some conversational Japanese language skills is a plus. And already being in Japan helps. But Japan-dev and tokyodev (websites) have jobs listed that will hire from overseas.
The Interview Process for Tech Jobs is just ridiculous, and has nothing to do with what we actually do on the Job as Software Engineers. I have never had to write a binary search tree algorithm to loop through all the nodes in a perfectly balanced binary tree and log everything on the console. It's just so ridiculous that we focus on only Algorithms and Data Structures instead of core knowledge like what's an API, can you find and read Docs, how do you go about solving BUGS, how do you break down big Jira tickets into smaller subtasks, how would you implement a more distributed and scalable cloud solution for large applications, etc.
But, all we focus on is silly Leetcode questions that have no basis in Reality.
Honestly, I love pages like this because this feels like real stuff people should know.
Yes, totally agree. These dummies sitting in that interview chair hardly know stuff. They google questions and ask us to code it 🙄
The interview process, particularly for a front end dev definitely doesn’t match the everyday reality of the job. Having to know algorithms for the interview when the realistic everyday work is “hey, can you move that image up 10 pixels?” Is maddening.
@@jeyzur That's wild to think about
not sure why interviews don't plunk you into a legacy codebase and ask you to track down the bug .. then the way to fix it is not to figure out the best dsa: it's to figure out the most seamless way to integrate the fix with the existing code so it's understandable while meeting requirement. the score should be based on how easy it is for someone else to figure out wtf you did. seems more relevant to work i have had as a dev
I'm sorry you have to go through this. I'm glad you're making the best of out a bad situation.
I have a PhD in pure math, I am working as a full time lecturer at a well known university in Manhattan and make 70K a year. I work on yearly contracts. If my contract is not renewed, I will have to teach part time for the rest of my life (yes, once you lose a full time position, no way to get another full time again Academia sucks much worse that what I hear about software engineers. I am trying to learn Python and learn data science. I am over 40. It seems I will never retire. I just wanted to let you know that there are people doing much worse than laid off software engineers. I mean well, good luck..
thanks for validating my decision to drop the PhD after finishing the masters. got a kind of semi-professional job, really glamorous and pays lots of money.... just kind of tiring, some nights, but...love it!
I also have a Ph.D. in math, and I have a tenure position at a state university. Academia has its perks, a more flexible schedule, long breaks, travel to conferences, working with students, but the pay is definitely better in industry. I always thought that software engineers make 500K plus stock options, they work crazy hours, but they can retire early as multimillionaires. But apparently that's not always the case. I also learned Python and a bit of data science recently, cause it's very popular these days. Phyton is not bad if u can already code in another programming language. And for data science it helps if u have strong background in stats. Good luck with it!
20+ year veteran here: if you truly don't enjoy coding to the point where you can't bring yourself to get into a side project learning something new, if that doesn't sound fun to you to the point that you seem offended at the idea, then long term this probably isn't the industry for you because you're going to have to go through at least a few rounds of reinventing your skill set before you retire.
No one enjoys half the mess we do. It’s not just coders. You just also proved a point and outcome of what all this is for, to drive people to learning. Going to learn is probably back at a school then online learning. They purpose of all these moves is to keep learning in college on its last leg for the next 10-20. Government already is informing nationally going to “college” isn’t a requirement this year slowly to the masses….college owners want to get paid….
I'm mostly a freelancer (with a small web/mobile dev agency) who has been living the turmoil that is having variable income for 13 years (not easy), I was considering some full-time position for more stability, but to be honest, If I don't have many clients at some point, I will very likely be coding some side project, I enjoy coding and learning the new tools/apis/sdks/whatnot, it's tiring being so much time in front of a computer, but like, if I have no work, i'll surely be creating work for myself, talk to friends, look around, being a dev means you can solve real world problems, and there are Many, if that's what you want, better say, if that's what you enjoy doing.
So I absolutely agree here. If you don't enjoy spending free time around new languages/software/sdks/devTookits, be it using/experimenting/contributing, this industry is probably not for you in the long run.
Follow your passion.
if you don't enjoy doing this I would imagine it is painful to force yourself to learning. I find it all fascinating and my youtube is full of tech videos that I am listening to and watching. I am a college dorp out. Self taught. Not that smart but I find it all interesting and love to keep learning the new things and that helps me at job interviews.
I'd like to see marketing people or accountants doing "side-projects" in their FREE time. Software developer is just another boring office job, like any other. It's difficult to get, is paid badly (outside of Silicon Valley) and definitely does not warrant you whole life energy being invested into it.
@@cadcad-jm3pf being boring is something of a personal choice for yourself not for all
Thanks for sharing, man. It's a sad perspective, but people like you making videos like these help others see that there is something going on with the industry - I don't want to say it's weird or wrong because I don't know if it's just companies saving money and thinking that we, software developers, are asking for too much in general, or if there's some other reason. I've spoken to enough suits and non-developers to believe that the decision-makers have fallen to the AI craze and now think they can cut costs with it, so they're chopping heads to save up on salaries. Either way, seeing laid off devs talk about their struggles with landing a job feels like a good bit of clarity in otherwise uncertain times.
I have 3 years of direct, working experience and have been looking since mid-late March, all to the same effect. Ignored a lot, rejections feel automatic and almost repeat one another verbatim (it's as if I'm talking to the same company over and over again), some weird questions and challenged that have either very little or nothing to do with the actual job description, etc. I feel you. It kind of helps knowing that it isn't just me struggling because years of me working during the day and then learning in the evenings somehow don't mean anything.
I don't think I managed to properly take advantage of my "unplanned time off" for more than a few days since I've been told the news. I really hope you manage to pursue other passions of yours and enjoy your time doing things that you love. Unwind properly, relax, give yourself some room to breathe, some room for your brain to process the past experiences; maybe spend less time doing something stimulating or active - get more walks, preferably without music or podcasts, journal, draw, whatever. Do things that make you feel you good and recharge, for a considerable amount of time - then get to honing bits of your skills you think need honing.
Most importantly, good luck. I hope you have the means to last through the time. And sure hope you find another place you're proud to be working at. :)
Sorry to hear about your layoff. Have you thought about getting into Security Engineering or DevSecOps? Your SE background would give you a pretty big leg up on roles in Information Security and Cybersecurity that are aligned with SDLC and software defect focus. I wish you the best in your future. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I'm weighing my options in general, I'd like to get into embedded systems but alternatively some kind of verification/validation role would be cool. DevOps could also be a good fit...like I said weighing my options 😂 but thanks for your comment and support!
"DevSecOps" is half the f*ing problem with this industry. All buzzwords and acronyms, and in the end people are producing rubbish.
I think you are delusional. But no worries so am I :D
At least we are self aware 🤣
Dude. I have 25+ years of experience and I still have to play the game and go through those types of interviews. I've worked with over seven startups and NEVER NEVER NEVER are any of those coding tests a reflection of what the job is actually like ANYWHERE. But that's the game and you just have to suck it up and prepare and do your best. It's sad but true. The other thing that is true is that these types of interviews very much screen out anyone with untreated, possibly undiagnosed, ADHD (specifically impacted working memory and drifting focus). And that's just the way it is.
The key indicator that there's something wrong is the fact that a whole cottage industry has popped up to serve the crowd that needs to prepare for these coding, design, architecture interviews. That book that you mentioned (Cracking the Coding Interview -- by Gayle Laakmann McDowell) just fits into that puzzle. In most cases, you will not be prepared if all you do is read that book.
Honestly, you’re still in a good position to even get interviews. Not a lot of people do. I’ve been through layoffs a few times and just prepare for layoffs.
Even with your years of experience, I would still brush up to get ready for interviews.
It’s a different job hunt now than it was a few years ago.
Imagine an employer after 5 interviews: 1 guy/gal knows his shit, 4 have a master and experience but fail. Whom do you choose? Coding Interviews don’t go away so better get good at them. Sitting at home solving puzzles for lots of cash is an attractive job.
Coding interviews are different than DSA interviews. Most companies need someone who can come in and work in angular, react, c#...not someone who can invert a binary tree. However, tons of companies want to interview like google and end up missing out on a lot of candidates or making bad hires. For example, I read about an guy who was ex google and ex apple. He was hired by a fortune 500 company as a senior software engineer and in 4 months produced nothing because he struggle to learn their practices and stack. He was also over engineering the parts he was assigned to the point it never made it to production
Enjoy then your employee that had to waste weeks learning tests instead of real work.
This mindset hurts us all
I graduate college next year with a degree centered around AI, not software, but I’m so nervous about finding my first job. Your story is not the first I’ve heard and they all also had over five years of experience. I’m in my late twenties, so I haven’t been able to afford to get an internship. It’s a stressful time for tech workers right now.
Bummer dude. AI is really just a design pattern and what they say it can do will never happen.
Brother, I feel this. I went through something similar. Got laid off in January, actually started my new job today! I basically went on "vacation" for 3 months, then started interviewing. The amount of applications that went nowhere, including the ones i sent directly to HR people, is too high to count. I got lucky in that some recruiters reached out and 1 of 100? jobs responded to my resume.
It's hard out there but you're not alone. Programming and software are great skills that should not be abandoned, especially in a digital age. Leetcode style interviews suck, but it won't stop because there's a segment of the population that will do them.
My advice, study leetcode passively, or find creative ways to use your software engineering skills. One person mentioned Sales Engineering. You can also do Indie Hacking, or freelance and build websites/apps. Don't give up.
I appreciate the thoughtful words and encouragement!
I've actually been thinking about trying sales, because I've turned into more of a people person than I thought I'd be when I was younger. But even still, I will persevere!
Did they require you to code in C++, do you have a background in C++?
I definitely feel you on this. I still have my current software engineering position, but want to leave for something better, but unfortunately the job market is so bad right now. I'm thinking about switching into contracting types of roles since it might give better flexibility and will also typically tend to hire on a lot quicker, but I'm not sure as of yet what exactly I'm going to do.
Currently in my first dev job but it’s a really stagnant position, team isn’t great etc ( I appreciate I have a job). No idea how I’d make the time to brush up for interviews, build a new portfolio etc whilst working a full time job. Evenings and weekends but could see my health nose diving if I have to do 6 months, 24/7 at my desk… it’s mad
Hello, me again. I agree with you, but it's similar to school. You have to learn what you don't want to learn in order to move onto what you do want to learn. Maybe give that book a read while you work on your photography?
I did assignment and got an offer, literally the next day I got another offer from another company I did not need to do assignment for. I took the second offer ofc.. the mistrust is not that cute. One must ask self if the manager will clock your performance also once you have accepted.
Hell yeah man!
I hear you on the technical interviews these companies want leet coder even though the job itself doesn't require ever using those skills only interviewing. The job market for SWE is so flooded with many qualified candidates there just isn't enough jobs to be had right now. People are staying put in jobs too because the market is bad. I've watched a lot of blogs of other SWE laid off finding their next role too. I took a gamble on a startup that ran out of funding so they cut their costs. Hopefully things will improve, I'm considering short term contract work just to bridge employment for now.
My first 15 years in tek my interviews were often white boarding a complex problem I had solved. After that it became the type of test a 1st semester comp sci student would take. Meanwhile there are virtually no entry level positions for young grads. Best thing I did was shift over to GIS, it opened a whole new career path for me and I prefer working in science not business. Be nimble and not afraid to explore entirely new directions.
I have almost 20 years experience and i still get asked these questions.
What i do now is i give the coding project 4 to 8 hours and turn in what i have. If they care about it being done then they should pay me. If it takes longer than 4 to 8 hours then it isn't worth doing.
8 hours unpaid work for an interview that you may lose? That is way too much. If they expect 8 hours of unpaid work even before knowing if they hire you, imagine the amount of unpaid work they demand after hiring. So I avoid these from start.
So don't want to be harsh but if your company is not doing well your #1 priority should be looking for a new job not planning vacations.
I would disagree. He likes travelling and photography. He was preparing for a new period in his life without realizing it. I went out of my programing job because of burning out. Payment was relatively high but I just got mad at ever having to discover how the system works and what is the plan. For ten years I had been working on a project of my own. I devoted all my time to it after I left the last employer. I brought my idea to a conference. I applied for a grant. I founded a one person company. I know now that time is required to make changes in your own life. When you work 9 to 5 your brain is just consumed by your boss. The brain has a limited capacity to grow new axons. If you give some of the capacity away for your employer, less is left for starting your own business. I don't live in the USA though, so my situation is different from yours.
@@odiiibo Nobody is talking about you and nobody cares about your particular problems.
If your company isn't doing good and you need the money, is not vacation time, Period
@@FellTheSky you are 2 extremes of the same coin... One too conservative to save money and not focus at all on vacations, which is good advice but like odiiibo said if he likes travelling then working just enough to afford travelling is the ticket to happiness.
The other extreme is pointing out the importance of independent thought and financial independence, but that is when you're properly invested in yourself for a long time, not something you do overnight when you're about to hear you're being laid off.
I spent 20+ years in the field and likely done with it. It's completely saturated and there are too many people who are willing to do this type of work for peanuts overseas. Your only hope is to get a job with the government that requires a security clearance. The rest of the jobs will be offshored
I don't understand why companies are so bad at interviewing. Nobody can figure out a good way of screening applicants when there are so many. As someone who's been on the hiring end, I've seen teams get starstruck by charismatic candidates, and dismiss others who had a great background for the job. Ultimately they end up with subpar choices and people who would really be good at the job get filtered out by the lousy process.
IT hiring is like dating apps for the average male.
Women are the employers. You are the candidate out of many who might get lucky.
sorry to hear this. Hope you bounce back soon.
My former employer told us "we can get five people in India for what we pay each of you". Always keep money available for emergencies, and save as much ad possible for retirement. You will need it.
I have over 13 years of professional experience and it took me more than a year to get a Job, Yes you are delusional to think "I have 5 years of experience", it doesn't matter how much professional experience you have, algorithms require extensive practice that you can't get at a job. I have denied any request by recruiters that use codility or test gorilla for assessment
one year ? I don't even know what any algorithm, data structures or O notation is and got 2 contracts in under 3 months as a startup. Either you guys are not as good as you think you are or are just bad. I just made programs in C/C++/Python that solves real problems and are robust. All these guys doing leetcode and learning useless stuff and not actually spending time writing good software is the main issue.
This. As if I'm not wasting enough time with all the recruiter crap without take-home assignments or some similar bullshit.
@@raptorate2872this makes no sense. You use algorithms and data structures even as a beginner coder.
@@raptorate2872I doubt you are writing high quality Software if you dont know the fundamentals. If you own a startup, and you convienced people you can do the job then thats awesome. As your project grows, you are going to need to learn all those algorithms or you code going to become extremely slow the more your data grows. Customers will want to speed up an query or sort massive email list once those companies grow. You need to know how fast your code is running and how to speed up the processing. Building projects are a must without them you wont evem get an interview. Passing the coding test is another skill. Based on what you written, you would not pass these tesr because you would not know where to start.
In the end, I believe the better path is working for yourself for job Security.
@@raptorate2872I've been thinking about this lately. As in should I focus more on exercises etc or on projects
Cracking the coding interview is outdated, the best thing for you to do is pick a plan like the Blind 75 or the Neetcode 150. I recommend the Neetcode 150, there are video explanations for every problem, and it is very comprehensive.
It doesn't matter how much experience you have, this is just how it is. None of us can control it. Just play the game, and try to get something out of it, try to see the Leetcode style problems as a challenge and as a way to develop general problem solving skills.
If you can get past that, your experience will shine through and get you higher TC or a higher position.
Yeah the fact that he was using C++ for a Leetcode problem and then saying he wasn't that comfortable with C++ was a big warning flag.
@@opa-age He said it himself his experience is basically working on tooling and traveling. Issue is that people in tech are suppose to work and learn on their free time or just be super intelligent.
This is probably not the profession for him.
Also if you dont brush up on a language before a test you will fuck up.
I am an expert with my language of choice but tests are sometimes done with older version or new versions. Just brushing up on those differences can take a while. Especially for major changes, ie changing how data structures and string manipulation works.
Yeah thankfully i am seeing some changes outside of FANG. FANG is still all leetcode but i had a interview at a smaller company who asked me to write a game of Tetris. It was a fun challenge.
Few years ago i get pass to final stage of interviews, now that i tried to grow my income switching job i found it really difficult first getting a higher compensation and second getting a second round of interviews, from my perspective the industry is trying to deflate SWE salaries by doing this for Senior roles and also now that there have been lots of layoffs developers are now overqualified so there is more demand for a role than before.
que tecnologias manejas bro? yo todavia no experimente eso, quiza se deba a tu stack en mayoria.
I think with the "Covid-19" the tech jobs went on the rise due to people going full online, and since it was a very fast and extreme change the industry was imbalanced (more offers than demands) and we can see that with the videos about people being laid off, those videos are very common nowadays. So my take in all this is maybe (a big leap of faith with this maybe lol) since a lot of people are being laid off, the industry will balance itself at some point and it will be easier to find jobs.
And yeah, you shouldn't be taking coding interviews if you have even +3 years of experience(let alone 5), that's just plain wrong. I was a watching a hispanic youtuber sharing a story about a girl who had 10 years of working experience and CS Degree and every company was requesting an interview. I think HR Departments need to know that you can even code without knowing how to code, coding is not sitting down and doing a software from the get go like they watch in movies.
Remote work has erased all boundaries of the hiring process. Now it feels like winning a lottery 😮
Not when you are planning to retire in first world country. The pressure to save is almost immediate.
recently laid off too. I agree, those types of interview questions are ridiculous past a certain number of years experience. As is daily standups because "Oh, that's Agile, Jeff". That's not agile.
Hope you find a new job or something that meets your needs like starting a business. I feel your pain on how much the process of searching just sucks even for web developers like myself. I've done well in interviews and did well on their test assignments and live tests, and many times the result was 'thank you but we are not moving forward with you at this time'. I honestly think they're just putting up job listings and not actually hiring to give the illusion of growth. It's hard to not feel like it's a skill issue sometimes with so much to learn and catch up on but there's something out there for all of us, it just takes an annoyingly long time.
As a hardware person, I can tell you might have a bit trouble to transfer your skillset to embedded, because embedded systems is so much more than just programming on C. It also includes knowledge of hardware - such as how to built circuit to interface with sensors/motors/other subsystems. If you have EE degree, that's more possible.
And yeah, most interviews right now for software is related to LeetCode, for hardware/embedded - it's both actually. =) At least software guys have something to prepare! It's much easier already if you know they will ask you in interview, so you can take some time to prepare.
For hardware engineer - it could be anything - circuit design, embedded programming, LeetCode, motor control, signal processing, robotics, etc. I got once both interviews - hardware interview and software interview. 😂 Sometimes it's a whole day of craziness of different topics in interview.
I pivoted to the company who decided to do a test paid project with me instead of traditional interview. However, this approach is not scalable cause you can't do projects for 10 companies!
The industry is highly competive now, more so than it has been in the past ten years, the short of it is developers cost more now than they have done, so companies need to be very confident that they are going to deliver value quick (within 3 months), your resume/application needs to look like it will - if you're response to that is "its does" then get someone to take a look at it, and let them give honest feedback.
You're right that the interviews are mostly catered towards academic type of problems, to me there are two problems that I can see, (1) thats a major red flag for that company, the team either doens't understand the product well or they don't really know what problems they are solving that you will be working on. (2) You're not being specific enough in your job search (it sounds to me like you're applying to every company under the sun), be lazer focused in your application for a company - of course this takes time, and if you're response is "i don't want to spend that time" then I don't know what to say, you're putting yourself at risk at not finding a secure job.
These are all components in your control, how they conduct the interview is not.
Hope this helps, good look!
I wish you good luck man. I hope you find a job soon.
The problem was finding all the neighboring cells of the inner rectangle? sounds easy enough?
“I shouldn’t have to do that since I have 20 years experience” - I’m still being asked to do the same BS tests with 25 years prof experience and 40 years programming experience and still failing 50% 😅
That's how software industry is, we never know if we actually finish the complex tax
Leet code problems are NOT what you will be doing at your job lol. Maybe you can ask that to a junior/trainee position to filter out the whole crowd tryng to land a place but doing that to a embedded systems developer? LOL no way he is ever using that sh*t
C++ is one of the hardest languages for code interview, but your language of choice also depends on the position you are applying for it. If you can choose a language go for Python. In my case I use Kotlin.
Its rough out there all around man, been learning on my own and joined a mentorship program 2 years ago, i have one full stack project in production, and its hard even hearing back from applying to Junior positions that i know i could easily do, with no salary request at all, no clue how to approach this issue really. So i just keep coding because atleast i enjoy that.
Aside from the job hunting situation, it's awesome that you are traveling the world. Where in Colombia are you or have you been to?
yes they fire people in one day no notice and they expect you to give them 30 days or 2 weeks notice before you leave
I'm right there with you, man! I've been in the industry for over 20 years, doing everything from machine programming in the semiconductor, to business software, to interfaces for EMR systems. I was with my last company for 9 years and now coming back into the job search finding that I have to jump over LeetCode hurdles just to be considered for interviews. it's retarded and incredibly frustrating. I've filled my time learning web development while I continue searching for full-time work. thanks for the video, great to know that I'm not alone dealing with this frustration.
I was a software engineer for 26 yrs and I'm out of the industry and I now work for myself as a real estate developer (construction). My advice, for the short term - concentrate on getting contract jobs, the interviews are much less painful. Head hunters are always looking for a contractor to warm a seat probably at much less pay but it's something for the short term.
I can put dirt into my coffee machine. The dirt will act as a filter. Doesn't mean that dirt is a good filter. Same thing with LeetCode. LeetCode is just an extremely low effort way of coming up with a sandbox problem for candidates to solve. These DSA problems were relevant when you were in university, learning DSA and preparing for the exam. But outside of school, the smallest percentage of engineers will have to dabble with these structures and algorithms. Most of us will use prewritten library code that has optimizations for these structures built into it. That has optimized these algorithms. You won't spend your time analyzing these structures.
I completely agree. The interviews don’t make any sense.
My background isn't software engineering but physics (somewhat tangential).
Have you considered government or national lab opportunities?
There's a track record in that sector for stability (national labs are technically DOE contractors, but stability-wise are identical). Definitely a cool, fun environment. Benefits are great, pay is good, work-life experience so far for me is nice. It might be something worth considering.
Quite a few software engineers and mathematicians work at my lab, likely there are openings across the board at other sites that you would qualify for. I would definitely sample personal experiences of those from your field in that industry, to get more useful perspectives than mine if you're considering it.
Wish you the best on your job search!
I quit a staff engineer job in late 2022 and took a few months off. When I started seriously looking for stuff again in 2023 the job market had completely tanked, to the point where about 50% of job applications result in being ghosted. The salaries on offer now don't match what the demands they're making anymore. Earlier this year I was ghosted by a blockchain tech company after like 5-6 hours of interviews and (successful) code challenges, and basically just gave up at that point.
With over 15 years of professional experience, finding jobs has never been as hard as it is now. Instead of grinding down that path (or accepting a poorly paid job I hate), I'm working on my own startup ideas. Even if I make less money I'd rather work for myself than deal with this market.
Sorry to hear about your situation, glad you were able to take a break but the timing is definitely unfortunate. Best of luck with your own startup!
I remember years ago companies requiring "8 years experience" with x ..... When "x" was only in the market 4 years.
Just a bunch of human resources turds cutting and pasting buzzwords.
The code to solve this problem in C or C++ looks exactly the same. You don't need any C++ or the STL unique features to solve this.
Exactly this is my problem. Thanks for speaking out. I thought I had some problem not being able to perform even after having these years of experience.
I'm sorry that you can relate but I wish you the best getting back into the work force as well!
I am starting to loose confidence. Hope will get a break through.
Totally support You, man:)
do BOTH ... do your passion of Photography WHILE simultaneously building software tools that solve the niche issues you run into (should be no problem if you have that experience in C)
Feel this, going through the same thing at the moment. 3 year software dev, the interviews make me feel like such a dumbass. Keep trucking on, you'll land something eventually.
Same as you here. Don't fall into the self-doubt rut. The entire process is broken.
Yea, I agree with your assessment of hiring in the software industry - it sucks. I'm in a pretty similar boat - I have 10 years of experience in a good range of technologies but can barely even manage to get an interview. The whole testing on algorithms and data structures is super annoying too - they're literally not something you ever run into in normal day to day work. I know how frustrating it can be, and I'd also say you're smart for not grinding on leet code - no one cares if you're good at solving random puzzles; you'd just be wasting your time.
Honestly though, this isn't just a problem in the software world, its a problem everywhere. Hiring practices are broken; they have been for a long time. "Its not what you know, but who you know", that little phrase exists for a reason; if you know someone working at a company and get them to put a good word in for you, your chances of getting hired jump up drastically. But it's a sad state of affairs, it goes to show that businesses don't really know how to assess if a candidate has the right skills for a job or not, so they take the easy route and go off recommendations instead. There are innumerable stories like yours of people with real skills who can't get hired, as well as people with no skills getting hired and then let go later when people realize they don't know what they're doing.
The state of the economy obviously makes things difficult as well, but unless we can modernize hiring practices, I doubt things will change for a long time. Good luck to you though! I've joined up with a friend and am working on a start up - this is probably the best you can do if you have savings to keep you afloat for a while
I feel like content like this is important. It's not all sunshine and rainbows and people should know this.
I agree! thanks for your comment!
The process is completely broken. It’s too exhausting to even talk about. I have over 10 years of experience and haven’t been able to find a job for over a year.
Thank you! And good content! Around 6:53 you mention a linked list problem. Under the same umbrella, say 'Coding Practices', is say, data structures, algorithms, and design patterns. In my industry experience, there is a significant code base that does not follow any of this, and becomes a maintenance nightmare. So its an interesting paradox. Asking candidates to do design type challenges during the interview, but none of the legacy code follows this!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the best, I was laid off in the technology industry video that, I have ever seen on You Tube ... period. Why? Because, you tell us your education B.S. and M.S. in Computer Engineering/Science, you give us your job title "software engineer", you tell us both the software programs you used to write as well as the ones you do not know as well, you also shared with us what, you really want to do on your next job (in very good detail) which, is truly priceless. If your degrees happen to be in engineering and, not in computer science, you might want to change your engineering field, just like I have had to do throughout my career. In 1990, during a major recession in the Aerospace field, as an Electrical Engineering changed and, I went into the field of Traffic Engineering (smile ... smile).
feeling this so hard