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Brexit and the island of Ireland: The all-Ireland economy and the border question
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2018
- Speakers
-John Bruton, Taoiseach 1994-1997
-Katy Hayward, Queen’s University Belfast
-Martina Lawless, Economic and Social Research Institute
-Graham Gudgin, Policy Exchange
-Tony Connelly, RTÉ (chair)
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Grown up, sensible stuff.
I don't think I can cope with this, far more used to nutter blogs.
Well. Now. UK in trouble. Bad bad troubles
The lady hit the nail on the head at 14 mins, the Irish can't negotiate there own free trade deal with the UK because of the EU. The EU has took the sovereignty and independence away, from every single EU member.
@ ThatctherforBrexit
The EU did not take 'sovereignty and independence away', the Irish pooled it with other members. Ireland benefits from EU trade deals it could never have made on its own.
Future historians will find it hard to believe the ignorance that fuelled Brexit.
Every member country joined the EU voluntarily and every member country retained its sovereignty. The UK’s attitude has always been one of thinking it is better than any other member and deserves special treatment. As much as I realize ordinary folks will be hurt, at least Brexit will teach the brexiteers (hopefully) a lesson.
@@francoisehembert3243 actually no countries joined the EU with a majority decision of it's electorate based on a referendum. The 2 countries that did hold full referendums Norway and Switzerland -both declined . And I am old enough to remember the Irish political leadership telling people that if the UK joined then Ireland had to join or face economic disaster. The UK electorate were never consulted and if you read the Government papers now in the public domain Heath considered a referendum but was advised he would lose .And chose then to go ahead without one Now we have been given a choice we have chosen to leave -it's called democracy -government off the people by the people We the people have the power -we lend it to politicians every 5 years on the basis that they will enact our wishes and if they fail to do so then we can kick them out .We are not free within the EU to make our own laws and decide who can live and work in the UK and a foreign court can interfere with our wishes. We were told when we joined it was a free trade organization-a larger version of EFTA-we were never told that there would be interference in our internal affairs , immigration etc and that appointed unelected bureaucrats could interfere and we cannot sack them..We are perfectly happy tariff free trade but outside the Single Market and the ECJ. We want no interference from outside and we don't want to be involved in the internal affairs if Europe .You should never ever allow yourself to be ruled by people you can't sack otherwise you you cease to be a democracy -you become an autocracy , a dictatorship .
Big difference between trains on one set track and a truck on over 200 potential back roads and byways. Also tech can't check inside trucks etc.
Tuathal the True exactly!! I was listening to this video until I had to check the screen to see who this guy was claiming technology would solve the border issue. Goods will still need to be checked at some point along the border & lengthy delays will ensue.
@@SuperJaypatterson You honestly think that every cargo ship that enters Rotterdam is checked? The world economy would grind to a halt in days if that was the case. 95 percent of containers are never checked. Customs are done at the point of departure, it's all electronic. So much twaddle is spoken in the Brexit debate, the whole customs checks at borders is right up there.
Hilarious listening to the Brexiteer five years later. 😂 Their idiocy is so entertaining.
The problem was, is and will always be that the political establishment have no right to surrender the sovereignty of the nation (Britain) to a foreign body without the specific consent of the people. End of.
Lofty words. Are they backed up by your constitution?
Every international treaty gives up some degree of sovereignty. Should we have had referenda on the creation of NATO, joining the WTO, the United Nations, the International Maritime Organisation, ESA or the ICC, or signing the Warsaw Convention or the Euratom Treaty? How long do you think it would take before the majority of people stopped voting? How many people would take the trouble to learn about and vote on the Dominican Republic-UK Maritime Boundary Agreement, for example?
Whenever you see anyone who make a sweeping statement emphasised with remarks like 'end of', you can be pretty sure that person doesn't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.
@@RichWoods23 there is a difference between nations coming to an agreement on how to operate in relation to each other and a body that has the power to make laws for your nation without democratic legitimacy (sort of).
Looking forward to "The United Kingdom of England and Wales".
Miguel Angelo,
It may come to that!
I can see N.I. either joining with Scotland
(if Scotland has another referendum and
decides to leave the UK) or joining with
the Republic of Ireland.
Miguel Angelo your kingdom has never been united.
Me too. No more English subsidies to Scotland and Northern Ireland.
@@dantory1 good thing you didn't elect Corbyn or he might have destroyed the United Kingdom.
@@here_we_go_again2571 Nonsense.
A soft border is the best solutions but until someone actually spells out the details of how it will be implemented it's just pie in the sky. As the country leaving and creating the problem, it's up to the UK to spell out the details, just saying that it can be done isn't enough.
don't count on it...uk gov sleeping through brexit
the lead poster said, it was up to uk to spell out the details of its departure. and i said, don't count on it...uk gov sleeping through brexit(and now you have what you have with pm may's proposal)
@Charles Nelson There was a minimal border because of the Common Travel Area and later the Single Market. You can still see where the border posts were; some were knocked down, but some have been turned into shops and housing. If the UK leaves the Single Market the border becomes a UK-EU one, not a UK-Irish Republic border, just like Dover-Calais. The world has changed since 1992. Read your history.
The onley. Solution is a united ireland
Carmel Roach r
The solution stay in the EU. And modernize.
@@akbarallardfreichmann2938 Or the Irish Republic can take a vote and rejoin the Uk and fix the problem they created when they divided Ireland. After all you will have a bigger say inside the UK than you do in the EU.
@@ernestrogen4639 - you know nothing of Irish history - Ulster Unionists were allowed by the Brits to creata armed militias in NI
@@ernestrogen4639
*Not likely to happen!*
(Irish Republic rejoin UK)
8:30 America is in the same basket in relation to the UK except Americans don't know it
Interesting to hear John Bruton. Ireland was a much better place when he ran the shop.
Rainbow coalition do seem like halcyon days - but post-recession Ireland is not too bad but we need to sort out Housing and Health
@@rossgeography
Post recession Ireland needs
to sort out its immigration
issues. Ireland will not be the
"Ireland" of the native Irish
people; if the immigration
continues.
Merkel and Macron are
determined to force other
EU members to take in
massive numbers of
immigrants. The Visegrad
countries are refusing to be
the pawns for the EU globalists.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂What rubbish
Guess what, food and agricultural products are often perishable. So it's logical that with your closest neighbour, they are a disproportionate part of the trade.
I imagine it's true for nearly all countries. I think cars are traded globally, but fresh milk or fish probably is not so much.
Europe has hundreds of different histories in just the past few years and thousand more in just a hundred years to billions and billons etc etc etc
this is, very likely, a completely naive impression from an american observer who is dumbfounded by this 3 year divorce proceeding, but I sense the Irish (having been thru their own Nasty divorce from England) and sided with the E U, prefer the buffer that provides them - from a time when England engaged in some brutal domestic violence.
'The beatings will continue, until morale improves'...
Correct. It is in Ireland's strategic interest to remain in the EU. It provides a counter-balance to the economic dominance of the UK.
I think Dr Graham Gudgin is absolutely right, the Irish Border issue can be resolved with technology. All we need now is a way to stop the dishonest people who operate this technology to stop being so dishonest. Or is that what “trusted traders” is? If we can all be trusted to do as we are supposed to do or said we have done then we won’t need all this checks at the airport.. If only the EU can started trusting people more….In reality I think Dr Graham Gudgin is taking a lot of garbage…
a correct assessment, his portion was unconvincing. I suppose I have the luxury of writing this comment mid 2020 where almost everything his said can be debunked.
Interesting that they think Irish trucks will be fast tracked at Dover, what about at their entry to the UK? If the EU plays games then surely the UK will do the same?
LOL you sad gullible failure.
After Brexit food prices in the UK will go up, but it will only be temporary. There are many countries that would love access to the UK market. The problem for the Irish and the rest of the EU is once the have lost the UK market they wont be able to get it back.
Food prices will be higher and stay that way. At the moment we get most of our tomatoes from the Netherlands during winter and Italy during summer. How far will tomatoes have to travel from non-EU countries with that capacity? How much more CO2 will that extra transport and refrigeration requirement put into the atmosphere? Everything comes with a cost.
And what of finance and the French indices
Boris if Scotland and Northern Ireland maybe wales demand to leave LET THEM GO CUT ALL FUNDS let them do what they think correct. As Covid and Brexit huge cost. Has this person a brain. Toilet 🚾 talk
It's such a pity it's coming to this.
No-matter how you carve this up the Irish economy is going to suffer, and Britain will yet again walk away from another agreement.
Having said that I can totally understand why Britain want to leave.
Patrick - Which particular agreement are you talking about that the UK is walking away from?
A J GFA.
Patrick Farrell
But why do you say that? The UK has agreed to maintain all the strands of the GFA, and this strangled customs area/shadow single market proposal is in part to allow the border to stay open and exisiting trade and cross-border programmes to continue. That is one of the main reasons that goods werea included to prevent disruption. The UK government has agreed to match EU funding on any cross-border programmes going forward. How is that walking away?
At least all the political parties in NI agree on keeping the border open which is a a bit of a first for them to agree on anything.
A J Yes I appreciate what you are saying but unfortunately it cannot be as simple as that with an International boundary, and everyone knows it.
There's no point in discusing this on here but I must ask if you have been to the border counties recently? If not then you cannot form an accurate overall view of the consequences.
What has been revealing during this process is the level of unawearness created within the British educational system as to where or what northern actually is.
It was shocking to speak to English people living in the Republic of Ireland that hadn't a clue about the north before they came here.
I find the American primary and secondary system similar in that the students are guided inwardly and are basically unaware of the world outside to any extent until 3rd level.
The British side want a thorough surveillance system similiar to the London model, the majority of the northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland citizens want no such system in their country thank you very much.
In essance we have a democratic conundrum.
Patrick Farrell
Well, I live in London but I grew up in Belfast so I think I have some understanding of the issues. I have gone over the border many times, and the only real sign is that my phone 'pings' to say I am in a new mobile network.
I know that most English people do not have an understanding of Northern Ireland, and I would bet that when the DUP entered into the supply and confidence arrangement with the government, there were a lot of Google searches to find out who they are. They certainly know about the border now. I have been waiting for a bit of a backlash about the border as I thought by now people would be resentful of it holding up progress in terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, but not much so far. That said, there is a hardening of attitude I would say towards the EU and Theresa May with people more and more prepared to accept leaving with no deal. I fear all the posturing from both sides has gone badly wrong, and the outcome that no one wants is the one we will get.
It is easy to imagine that any indifference or ignorance is limited to Northern Ireland - it really is not. I would guess that many English people have little understanding of anything outside GB, and honestly if you put me under pain of death to explain the status of all the UK territories or dependencies I would struggle so I can't be critical. The north-south divide in England is also very real, and that became very apparent when the outcome of the referendum was known as people in London and the South East has no idea of the sense of alienation felt in the north. In my opinion, London is also very insular and if, for example, Birmingham decided they wanted to strike out for independence I don't think anyone in London would care, frankly. Not great, but that is how it is so it is not limited to Northern Ireland.
I want a deal that benefits Northern Ireland, and I think that a good deal for the UK is a good deal for Northern Ireland, but I find it very frustrating that some pragmatism cannot be applied to the border to keep it open. It is fairly obvious that whatever the solution is, it will be 'fudged' with either the integrity of the single market or the integrity of the UK breached, but we will have to pretend that is not the case. Personally, I don't care which way it goes, but I find the 'you created the problem now you come up with the solution and we will look at it' approach a bit frustrating. Everyone knows that the UK made the decision to leave but we have to deal with the reality of it. If I was interested in solving something as sensitive as this I would work a bit more collaboratively at it. I don't think Northern Ireland being in the single market/customs union long term is good so the sooner there is a solution the better it will be.
Are your last comments about the cameras at the border or more generally? There are ANPR cameras there already on the main roads, and do you not have cameras on your toll road that runs round Dublin? That's all they have in London plus cameras to catch you driving in the bus lanes as far as I am aware. Sorry if I missed the point? I thought Theresa May had accepted that technology would not work there in any case.
No one really looks at RTE anymore repeats repeats and more repeats
Does Tony Connelly ever age? only the slightly whisping of hair hints at it - haha
Gudgin taking nonsense on NI vote (Nationalists didn't vote so 56% of a largely Unionist vote is substantial)
see - czcams.com/video/dmjTPr8j5p4/video.html (around 15mins but whole thing is worth a listen to get Irish perspective - O'Ceallaigh has been around the block a few times)
Such a bad coughed ,from the audience,,,
The UK citizens, joined a Common Market, not the United States of Europe. This was forced on the Citizens of the UK, with no say by the Citizens. The Referendum in 2016, gave the UK citizens a voice and they voted to leave the United States of Europe.We will leave at the end of October, as the Citizens voted.We will not bribed as EIRE was, to change our mind, or forced to remain in the EU, by the intransigence of the unelected leaders of the United States of Europe.
What bribe did Ireland get?
If you didn't want to join the Single Market you should have voted again John Major in 1992. It was in the Conservative Manifesto. You had your chance.
Extra EU money, if they voted yes in a new Referendum!
Ireland got no 'extra money' for voting in any referendum.
What about the Lisbon treaty, shouldn't there be a third vote put to the Irish people. These are the type of people who don't understand democracy.
Yes, the Irish should have third vote if they want it. But they dont. The Republic has a referendum every three years or so, and have had 5 on abortion, and two on divorce.
This is because the Irish understand that being able to change your mind is one of the cornerstones of democracy.
To follow your logic, democracies would only ever have one General Election.
Democracy is wasted on you.
The nature of the EU is understood by UK voters. Which is why we voted to leave! We do not accept to takes rules and laws, made by others. The MEPs in the EU parliament merely make amendments to anything, the commission makes the policies and laws, and decides projects. And of course, each country only votes in its own MEPs so we have no control or say who is represents the EU. And of course, the all powerful commission is not voted for by the electorate. The two Ireland’s need to bang their heads together, shake hands and make peace. This is the 21st century, violence should not be on the cards at all. You can never have peace if you keep threatening violence, or indeed you use it. Dam look at Germany, two horrific World Wars and yet look where they are now..
easier said than done. Germany was separated for only a short time, the north of Ireland was separated over 400 years ago by the English. England then planted her trash in the north of Ireland. You want peace then take back your trash.
"The EU is a rules based organisation" - Mr Bruton?!!? Are we Europeans in a dictatorship?!!?
Hardly. The EU membership make the rules, including the UK.
Yes but why over regulate its own members?
Who says its over regulated?
Halotest100 be specific
They have destroyed Britain's fishing industry. Also, Britain was one of the biggest processors of Sugarcare. The EU have added an "extra" £1 Million tax on each vessel coming to the UK to have its Sugarcane processed. This is because of Germany and Belgium's colonial interest in Sugar Beet. Why would you want to be a apart of something that hinders you like that? There are many many more too. The EU is a racket. Tariffs, Protectionism and Quotas. Look at where their Art grants go.
who will be the FALL GUY within BREXIT 's
outcome? UK /IRELAND/SCOTLAND?
BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS-never before, has a
country, within the EU, chosen to depart from being part of the EU-hence,
literally, there cannot be existing ‘EU Leaving EXPERTS’-whoever is dealing
with the BREXIT Negotiations, has been appointed/selected, because of their
loyalty to whichever party has elected them to do this job.
who will be the FALL GUY within BREXIT 's
outcome? UK /IRELAND/SCOTLAND?
The Prime Minister, Theresa May, answered
questions from MPs in the House of Commons on Wednesday 19 December 2018.
czcams.com/video/16383ybn2QA/video.html
the PM states that she will be looking into
all the options that the BREXIT negotiations provide-BUT, why aren't each and
every 'option' available, being singularly discussed and debated, where the
tories must provide detailed financial pros and cons of these options, and the
duration of applicability of each option from the EU to the UK Voters
Q)What is
evidence?=there are no BREXIT Negotiators who are ‘Experts’, and there
is no conclusive evidence being presented to the UK Voters to guarantee that
what they say is evidence, is even ‘correct’! Evidence in a graph should always
be double checked, and not assumed to be correct just because ‘she said’, ‘he
said’-That is a no-no in any discipline, industry, profession or service
provision, just as the BREXIT Negotiations are!
Q)How many of the
UK Voters actually have their hands on the ‘real data’ that will finally
conclude the BREXIT NEGOTIANS?-very few, and those few have the means
to manipulate all the Data that will eventually not only conclude the BREXIT
negotiations, BUT effect each and every UK Voter, our children etc.…
The response to
the above to be concluded ‘fairly and legally’ would be to hold each
and every BREXIT NEGOTIATOR accountable for their negotiations as well as their
source of evidence which aided their conclusions on their decisions-unless such
a ‘one time in a lifetime legal accountability clause in their signing off on
their decisions, than they are providing misleading information to defraud all
UK Voters.
REF;www.researchgate.net/publication/261121335_Mapping_evidence_graphs_to_attack_graphs-judicialconduct.judiciary.gov.uk/
BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS
-Future judgments Thursday 13 December
2018 09:30 Courtroom 1
THE UK WITHDRAWAL FROM
THE EUROPEAN UNION (LEGAL CONTINUITY) (SCOTLAND) BILL â€" A Reference by
the Attorney General and the Advocate General for Scotland -Lady Hale, Lord
Reed, Lord Kerr, Lord Sumption, Lord Carnwath, Lord Hodge, Lord
Lloyd-Jones-Proposed bench for hand-down: Lady Hale, Lord Reed, Lord Hodge-The
hand-down will be streamed on Supreme Court Live and will then be made
available on the Supreme Court's video on demand service. You are welcome to
come and watch a summary of the judgment(s) being given in court by a Justice.
This is what to look for in the above ‘UK WITHDRAWAL FROM
THE EUROPEAN UNION supreme court legal discussions, along with all future
BREXIT EU Parliament Negotiations and signing off
The “classic” types of misleading graphs include cases where:
1. The Vertical scale is too big or too
small, or skips numbers, or doesn't start at zero.
2. The graph isn't labelled properly.
3. Data is left out.
This is a series
of rampant corruption within the judiciary-SO HOW WOULD YOU PRESENT THESE
CORRUPTIONS EXPOSE' in a GRAPH? The UK Voter’s Right to Discovery
Just as BREXIT negotiations have deliberately excluded
crucial data from their conclusions, Hence even if SKY NEWS gets to obtain the
contract to hold the BREXIT DEBATES, you must make sure that all the DATA
EVIDENCE is included for debate, otherwise, you and your viewers will be
holding a BREXIT DEBATE which is simply a 'crock of lies' which is only for
the direct profit of all those who hold the 'money strings to the UK's economy'
& their accomplices-
NO MONEY FOR TERROR, yet 8 hedge funds control more funds than the
whole of the EU!
ref;
KNOWING is equal to allowing ABUSE-UK Currency manipulation through
the period of UK's BREXIT Negotiations, the undisclosed profit made by certain
MP's, George Soros's involvement if any, and if evidence is available, must
also be disclosed and fully investigated, +the 8 FUNDS Hedge Funds,(their
managers) which CONTROL MORE CASH THAN ALL OF EUROPE'S WEALTH-When so much
global funds management of assets is publicly available, how can anybody
believe that Bernie Madoff and 'his accomplices, who have to be charged and
exposed', to have been allowed to go on for so many decades and how he was even
allowed to be part of the new York stock exchange! This type of huge financial
scam will no doubt be repeated especially when so many 'technology glitches' go
unreported in the media! Or is big data manipulation scams and army scale
hacking into global economies, the norm now?
BLACKROCK/VANGUARD
GROUP/STATE STREET CAPITAL/FIDELITY INVESTMENTS/ALLIANZ GROUP/JP MORGAN
CHASE/BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON/AXA GROUP
Legal Standards and Procedures- The rules of discovery
determine the circumstances under which a defendant can compel the production
of such records.
The Rule of Law is based on the inclusion of its laws being
provided to both ‘claimants’(UK Government and UK Voters) and ‘respondents’
(all of the EU Governing entities along with the 364 million EU Voters)=Whether
scientific evidence is admissible in the EU Parliament/UK Supreme Court, such
cases depends on whether the evidence tends to prove or disprove a fact that,
under the applicable law, might matter to the outcome of the case; whether the expert
presenting the evidence is qualified, also where he/she is qualified from;
whether the information is derived from financial/scientifically/human rights
acceptable procedures; and whether the potential for unfair prejudice or
time-consumption substantially outweighs the probative value of the
information. We must discuss those general principles and then consider their
application to BREXIT Negotiations, evidence. We also must weigh up and have
the UK Government describe EU/UK Court hearing pre-trial and trial procedures
that might help not just the courts, but all UK Voters to reach decisions on
the proof/evidence for the admissibility of continuing to be a member of the
EU, and to improve the quality and use of the financial/scientific evidence at
trial. We begin with the intertwined
procedural issues that arise in connection with a UK Voter’s request for
discovery, retesting, or expert input/assistance and proof of their BREXIT
Negotiations conclusions and options
I wish you all A
VERY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR to us ALL From Margaret Cooper
England Tel 0044-7765927008 twitters#madoffstash
Email-cabinetcontrol100@gmail.com
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the UK has got it all wrong, the EU and Ireland is lovely ... we now fully understand the 'political' nature of the EU, that's why we are leaving, Ireland will eventually do the same. If Ireland thinks it holds the whip hand over Brexit it is in for a rude awakening.
The backstop suggests otherwise.
You ought to tell Mrs. May that ! ...She's certainly looking desperate
AsAnUlsterman unionists is in for a rude awakening
Bruton, a non practicing lawyer turned politician, therefore, insufficiently intelligent to undertake a real job.
Lawless, an 'economist' one of those whom, in 2009 told us we were entering a 'soft landing' in the falling economic depression, we are, and will for a long time be paying for this soft landing through our taxes.
Gudgin, another economist, though employed at a University which has substantial international repute.
Hayward, a 'sociologist' that is a nom de guerre for a well qualified shelf stacker.
Bruton's comment on Ireland being a 'sovereign country' shows how out of touch he is, and I know him through family, Ireland, UK, Denmark etc. have not being sovereign since the coming into force of the Nice and Lisbon treaties.
Argue if you must however, firstly take a look from the point of view of the man on the clapham omnibus
joeyguitarstrings Your comment is interesting. Support for EU generally seems quite high in Ireland, and it has brought some benefits. However, it has always been this removal of sovereignty that has been at the heart of the problem for the UK. It is amazing how so many of our politicians and others in places of influence can be so out of touch with the people. They have also worked to hide the loss of sovereignty, and people now feel deceived. Difficult times.
AJ, my own feeling has, for now some thirty years been, the EEC, EC now EU is simply a tool to control, at virtually every possible level the minds, money and laws of the people, without affording them any role in the making of the laws they are constitutionally bound to live by.
I campaigned, and voted against Nice and Lisbon on the grounds that the change to Bunreacht na hÉireann, even with protocols, occasioned too great a change to make our governance of ourselves.
I am in the fortunate position, having land in the Republic, and occupied portion of our country to have been able to vote in UK leave referendum, I am delighted to live in the part now leaving, I will continue to campaign for my country to, once again become a united Republic, this, I am of opinion cannot happen while our sovereignty is so compromised by membership of an autocracy which makes 86% of our legislation and controls 100% of our legislation, I am proud one of my family signed the Proclamation and so many others fought, and died, for our freedom but, why have we now surrendered it?
Your opinion would be appreciated.
joeyguitarstrings
I certainly agree with you about the issue of control. It reminds me of what I heard an ex-KGB agent say when he essentially said if people are given a particular message over and over again they are unable to think critically for themselves which is what they did with their citizens to control them. I think this is what has happened to some EU citizens who see it only as a good thing, and repeat back parrot fashion the phrases used by the EU without questioning. Similarly during the Brexit aftermath, pro-EU people take everything said by the EU commissioners as if it was received wisdom, and don't stop to think it through. There is a lot of talk about Russion interference but I am pretty sure the EU has an online army working to try and persuade British peope to press for another referendum - a good old EU tactic that has worked for them in the past. I note how they keep everything focussed on the financial impacts to avoid people looking too deeply into issues such as the reduction in sovereignty, and future plans for a federation, a militiary force etc. Chilling.
I researched the history of the EU in the aftermath and was shocked by how the treaties were enacted. Strange how John Major is now asking for another referendum yet he deliberately denied the electorate a vote on Maastrict. Even worse, Labour under Gordon Brown denied the referendum on the EU constitution that had been promised in the Labour manifesto after he saw how the votes in France and Denmark went, knowing full well how it would go in the UK. When David Cameron tried to force Labour to uphold the manifesto through a vote in the House of Commons, Labour voted it down!! So here we are 10 years later.
I have read a lot of Irish people commenting on your two votes on Lisbon and they sort of sweep it away, but I did not really think the amendments changed that much?
I've read a few books on the EU now and the issue of loss of sovereignty through subterfuge just shines through. I've read your Proclamation in the past, and thought is was a bit like a love note between Ireland and her people, making Irish people the only 'owners' of Ireland and no foreign power can take away their sovereignty. I guess your constitution now is different, and the referendums were required to change it? (I may have got this wrong).
It is quite similar with the UK going back to Magna Carta which gave a citizen all of their rights - 'We have also granted to all free men of our kingdom, for ourselves and our heirs for ever, all the liberties below, to be had and held by them and their heirs for us and our heirs.' We already have all of our rights and yet the EU would try and make us believe they are giving us additional rights. The Bill of Rights (1689) also states in the same way as your Proclamation that sovereignty sits with the people, we lend it to the representatives in parliament but they have to pass it back at the end of their term undiminished. It is explicit that it cannot be handed over to a foreign power BY ANYONE. The Lord Chancellor advised Ted Heath of all of this before he took the UK into the EU but he paid no attention other than to focus on trade and keep thoughts away from sovereignty.
I think it will take about 10 years for the UK to appreciate fully that leaving is the best move as the inexorable move towards this 'ever closer union' will increase soon, not least after the UK leaves and a new Treaty will be drafted. The whole EU set up is corrupt and secretive, and frankly trade deals and being able to travel around Europe without a passport or live there etc. just don't cut it for me.
I grew up in Northern Ireland, and I want NI to leave too because I don't like the thought of them being in the clutches of the EU. A good deal for the UK will be a good deal for NI so I hope they get this sorted out so we can stop the EU meddling. Tough times ahead, and many rivers to cross but I hope we get there.
Curiously AJ, and thank you for the reply, the 'many rivers to cross' are, in most parts, the new frontier between EU and again a democratic Republic, I am of opinion, though earlier a colleague disagreed with me, the Millar case judgement essentially removes the monarchs role in extra parliamentary law making so creating the Republic of the United Kingdom.
Like you I am in the part still governed by Britain, and again this AM, BBC, once strong advocates of partition seem intent on pushing for an asap referendum on re-unification, like all MSM the BBC are, and were, bought off by Lisbon treaty and the promises of the elite whom administer all from Brussels.
The ability for citizens to recognise the majority were correct will be down to successful trade dealing in the short term, perhaps ability to enter commonwealth states for trade and work may help however, they will continue pushing for Brexit 2, just as in the Republic for Nice and Lisbon, even after we, if we, leave next March 29th.
Pray, it's perhaps our only chance.
Ad hominem attack are usually used by those that have no factual arguments.
The EU is not a democratically run organisation and we would like to have England run by the English.
And as for the house scenario what would you do if a motorway went through your back garden after 40 years of peace and quiet well I would move and that’s what we are doing we went in to the EU for trading now we are being told how to run are country this is not what we signed up for. Lets get out of here.
ironic isn't it? england once wanted to rule the world, pretty much did. now it is retreating and is arguing about ruling themselves...sad
@@hansouth2355 I think you'll find it was Germany who wanted to rule Europe, we went to war to free Europe, now look. Germany has the biggest say the biggest surplus it has the biggest say in other country’s financial affairs, We the Brits pay in the second biggest amount and now you say we can’t have what we paid for, well that’s real friendly, you (EU) obviously have no idea what friendship is, you just want are money. I think if you showed a little more friendship, a bit farther down the line we would have jumped back in, in a few years but now you have showed your true colours.
you are getting out. why should you have a say? you will pay still to trade freely with eu, and probably need transition time to get your structures together to fully separate from eu. germany did want to rule europe, that was true, so did uk, when you had an empire. germany has more reps in eu parliament because it is the largest state in the eu. germany and france each pay more than uk into eu. uk pays a little more than italy. you didn't get kicked out of eu; uk leaving is entirely of your choice. you are wrong, eu still want and need strong uk. i personally want uk to do well because strong uk will make strong eu.
In another 10 years there wont be any English left in England :) HA
@@dansmith4237
You might be correct; at least
if you confine your statement
to the large cities. Most of
those who voted to leave live
outside of the large cities.
The EU is now flooding Ireland
with immigrants from Africa,
most of whom are Muslims.
The character of Ireland is
going to change. Do the Irish
people want that for their
country?
Anti English sentiments are not allowed in the EU. 6 mins in and I listen to some fool Telling me the EU sticks to it's own rules. It does not. And in 1972 It was the EEC. The rules were changed in the 1993 For the EU to come about. What is fully understood in the UK is that we did not vote, ever, to be dominated by by another Government. The republic of Ireland was defeated by the Lisbon agreement, because they ( the EU) changed the rules.
dave murphy - The UK government agreed or even initiated many changed in the EU and its predecessors. As the UK is a representative democracy the elected parliament is sovereign and makes such decisions. If one does not like that one should change the constitution.