LEAD IS DEAD?! 30-30 Winchester Federal 150gr Barnes TSX Ammo Test
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- Become a Channel Member! / @masonoutdoors_masonle... 30-30 Winchester Federal Premium 150gr Barnes TSX ammo ballistics gel test fired from a Glenfield 30A (Marlin 336) with 20 inch barrel
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All shots are fired from a distance of 100 yards to encompass the majority of common real world hunting scenarios.
I will be shooting into 10% ballistics gel from www.clearballi... that has been calibrated to meet the FBI ballistics testing protocol.
While ballistics gel isn’t an exact proxy for big game, small game, predators or defensive situations, it does provide a repeatable medium through which to test various bullets and ammunitions against each other.
With each type of ammo tested I collect data on bullet penetration depth, bullet weight retention, bullet expansion and muzzle velocity.
For reference, bullet expansion is measured at the widest expanded point using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper.
Bullet weight is measured using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Scale after having removed as much ballistics gel as possible from the expanded bullets.
Bullet velocity is measured using a ProChronoPal chronograph set approximately 7’ from the shooting bench.
I am fully aware that a chronograph measuring bullet velocity from 7’ away from the muzzle is going to register a slower velocity than if velocity were measured directly at the muzzle, but that difference is going to be so small as to be all but irrelevant in regards to comparison of actual measured velocity versus factory stated velocity.
My goal with these ballistics gel tests is to provide hunters like you and I with the most objective information possible to help us make the best choice for our particular hunting situation.
The results of these tests are my own and I cannot guarantee the same or similar performance on your part. The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own.
All videos are filmed in a safe and controlled environment on a private range with all applicable safety precautions by a trained professional.
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They should drop it to a 130gr to pump the velocity up. Copper bullets are long for weight.. 150gr takes up too much powder space.
Agree, I use 130s and 150s in 30-06 for copper (I live in ca). Velocity needs to stay high to ensure expansion. Still for this round, at reasonable distances, this will get the job done on deer, pigs, or black bear with good shot placement.
@@ericc3327 lmao, ya I do the same on elk with Federal blue box 30/30 ammo, they all fall over dead.
@@dirtyscoundrel2013really not that much on the market that would help the 30-30. Hogdons CFE-223 powder is the best bet in the 30-30, and with this long bullet I doubt it would even get much more velocity
@@rex8958Barnes shows LeveRevolution powder pushing this exact bullet at max of 2,316 fps. You are correct that CFE-223 is the next best powder for 30-30.
Maybe the long bullet takes up some powder room!
My 30-30 loves this load! I shot a 210 lb buck behind the shoulder at about 30yds. Entrance and exit were the same. The buck fell in his trax. The internals were a red jelly. All organs were indistinguishable from one another! This is Thor's hammer for the 30-30!
Weight being the same, copper bullets are usually longer than lead. That could explain the less velocity advertised velocity and poor accuracy.
-The longer bullet must be seated deeper into the case, intruding into the powder capacity.
-Longer bullets require tighter rifling twist rates to adequately stabilize the bullet.
I load these bullets in my 80’s marlin 336 with 36 grains of leverevolution powder and will print sub inch groups at 2300 fps. Didn’t think this old girl was capable of such groups until I tried this combo. Good to see how they perform now as I haven’t taken any game with it yet
This is an interesting result. My old Marlin 36A loves Federal Premium Trophy Copper and also this TSX load. But there is a substantial difference in velocity and point of impact. I'll likely convert to the TSX once my Trophy Copper runs out (so difficult to find).
Would be interesting to see you test Underwood controlled chaos with a Lehigh bullet that's 140 grains, advertised at 2400 fps, and all copper as well.
Thank you Sir. Pretty surprised that the "accuracy" was so poor. I haven't shot too much solid copper bullets. But the few I have were not as consistent as the comparable lead core bullets but they weren't terrible. Appreciate the demonstration, data and perspective.
My handloads with this TSX are 2456fps from a Marlin 20" barrel using H335 powder. Groups are under 3/4" at 50 yards.
I think you are going to like the hammer down better than all of them! great vid brother keep up the great work!
I came across your channel looking for good 30-30 videos and out of the many I subscribed to yours. Your videos are very well done and the leather bullet holders are very nice will be ordering one soon, take care great stuff.
I have found in all three of my 30/30 is that the new copper bullets do not group at all I have the best luck in all three of mine with Remington core lock 150 or 170 grain I have tried Nosler Hornady Lever Revolution and many many others and I I'm back to the old trusty deadliest mushroom in the woods
My 336 is sighted in with those Federal Premium TSX’s. Can’t wait to take a deer with them. I have three boxes of it.💪🏼💪🏼
I am a big 30-30 fan. I love your videos, I have a Marlin-Glenfield Model 30A as well. You have he best selection of 30-30 ammo tests I have seen, I would really like to see a comparison table of your tests with things like, real world velocity, penetration, expansion, and observed accuracy.
Glad to be of service! I will be inputting all of my data into a spreadsheet to do a lot of comparisons, I’m leaning heavily towards those videos being Patreon only however.
Great review Mason. My Marlin grouped poorly with this ammo also. Thanks for sharing. 🙏
I heard that if you run a brush through your barrel and clean it well then it drastically improves the accuracy of copper bullets, it’s something to do with shooting lead bullets and then using copper it’ll coat the barrel and cause it to be inaccurate
For everyone saying it’s too slow I shoot these same bullets out of a 308. I’ve never recovered one but based on the exit wound I don’t think they expand anymore at 308 velocity
Going from shooting your cup and core lead bullets to a copper bullet it has been learned that a barrel needs to be thoroughly cleaned then the copper will have a consistently better accuracy. That may have been the case here 🤷♂️ It is an interesting topic as to why, who knows. Thanks for another great video 👍
Good video. Regarding velocity and the 30-30. Back in 2013 I was at a range and watched a grandfather, his son and young grandson sight and test a new Marlin 30-30 with LEVERevolution 160gr. They chronographed over 2400fps with a 20” barrel. This was in western Canada at 4500ft elevation.
A couple weeks later I got a box of this Hornady ammo and chronographed 10 shots from my Marlin 336c (20”) and my 1972 Winchester 30-30 (24”) at an elevation of 4200ft.
Both guns chronographed an average of 2465fps at that time. At the time I didn’t think to bring other ammo out but I have not done this since.
It would be interesting if you could get a 24” barrel 30-30 in your tests to compare.
My gun smith suggested that due to the powder charge in 30-30 cases they reach max velocity at about the 16” or 17” of the barrel. So anything longer than the 20” barrel the bullet velocity will remain the same or as he suggested friction will start to come into play.
I don’t know for sure but I since sold the Marlin but I think I’ll take my Winchester out and chronograph some of the excess 30-30 ammo I have in 150/170 grain and compare it to the listed box velocity.
Keep up the good videos.
I’ve found it very odd when comparing chronograph data between my 24” Marlin 336 and the 20” variant. Velocity is usually exactly the same but with the 170gr corelokts they were slower with the longer barrel.
@@rex8958 I would suspect the longer bullet reached its max velocity in the barrel and then friction takes over for the remainder of the length?
Great videos love the good old 30 30 videos!! You might want to review federal premium hammer down 150 grain.
Thanks, I’m about to film Hammer Down this week 👍🏼
I"ve really enjoyed your 30-30 ammo tests, thanks!
My load is win 150 super x. Always works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That Barnes bullet is also available for reloaders and Nosler also makes a similar all Copper bullet designed for the 30-30 but it has a plastic tip instead of an open cavity. This bullet can also be used in other .308 calibers for those who want expansion at lower velocity than standard loads.
I used regular jacketed lead bullets by Winchester, Remington and Federal for decades and they worked perfectly so why switch?
My 336 likes the Federal Trophy Copper 150gr. The Trophy Copper has the plastic tip and great accuracy. Dropped a nice cow elk in its tracks at 200 yards with the trophy copper in 30-06, 165gr. Both calibers seem hard to find lately.
The 150 copper is probably as long as the 170 standard, so has a long bearing surface...they likely lowered the speed to keep the pressure within specification.
Too bad your gun did not like them, but another's might.
I do enjoy your videos
It has slower velocity because copper is less dense than lead... and that equalls lighter weight but more sectional density as the copper projectile is much longer than a lead projectile the same weight.... less room for powder, more surface area on the rifling is going to have increased pressure so the velocity is seemingly slow for a 150gr projectile. However because of the increased sectional density, the performance is much like the heavier 170gr 30-30 lead jacketed loads.
My H&R 270 loves them bullets
Please pardon my ignorance, if I may ask: what is the purpose (or what are purposes) behind the hollow point shape in a monolithic construction?
Wonderful video and great information
Have heard the barrel needs to be clean . If there is residue from traditional ammo there will be accuracy issues.
I look forward to you potentially testing some monometal projectiles in 30-06. I use Barnes TTSX in 150 gr. in my Remington 700 30-06 with great results. I would be interesting to see different copper bullet weights in the same caliber (150, 165, 180) to show what effect velocity has on expansion and penetration.
Try the 130gr.
used this on a few deer hunts. One dropped in its tracks. The other ran 30yds with little blood trail. could eat all the way up to the bullet. I think this bullet should be a 125gr. so ass to push it faster to make a better cavitation
I tend to agree, 125 or 130gr would be great for solid copper in a 30-30, Hornady loads lighter than standard CX bullets in several calibers to get the velocity and potential accuracy back in line with standard bullets, Barnes stays with the arbitrary weights.
@masonleather the second deer I shot was about 100yds . The first one was under 30yds and the bullet opened up wider than your. But was hit in the neck frontal shot and found it back near the back leg. Followed the spinal cord . It would be a killer bullet under 50yds
I am in California copper only. Thought I would have to put away my 30-30. These look pretty good. Concerned about expansion with the all coppers at slower speeds.
Today I learned that those are supposed to be belt loops on the cartridge holders. I still won't use them for that, but it's cool to know.
My old 30.30. Winchester26" octagon barrell. Get more power longer barrell😊😊😊
Hey have you reviewed a Rossi lever action? And if not would you.
Too slow, not enough velocity to properly expand solid copper. For the money, give me Winchester, Remington or Federal lead core ammo with "normal" 150 grain velocities.
It expanded just fine
Is the Glenfield a micro-groove equipped rifle?
Full copper bullets are pretty stiff. The material is less malleable than lead, even if it is less dense.
Before they added grooves to full-copper bullets, the drag in the bores caused pressures to run higher than equivalent lead core. I've dug around a while and cannot find a kinetic drag coefficient for lead-on-steel, but the number for copper-on-steel is 0.36 and for copper on stainless steel is 0.21. Unless the manufacturer has calculated equivalent drag for the bullet bearing surface to a lead-core type bullet, I'd say it's going to drag more than traditional bullets and run slower with the equivalent case pressure.
Could you do a review on underwood 30-30 147gr lehigh extreme Penetrator??
I really enjoy your videos, especially those related to the 30-30! I also have a Glenfield, as well as one from Rossi and one from Henry. Yes, they are all 3 different as far as their preferences for ammo. What I'd really like to ask you about though... at the end of your video where you're talking about Patreon, over your left shoulder you have several large leather stamps... which I presume that you use those on your rifle stock products. Those look awesome by the way!! Where did you get those made?? I do leather work too, but no where near the caliber of what you do. I have a couple who work on eBay that make acrylic stamps for me, but I'd really like to find someone who could make the solid metal stamps for me. If it doesn't violate any of your ethics, would you consider sharing who makes them for you, and how I may go about contacting them. If you prefer not to, I totally respect that!! However, it never hurts to ask a fellow leather crafter about their sources. Happy New Year sir!! Bill
Oddly enough I am using the 130 grain TippedTSX....for handloads for my son's rifle this year.
Good video- would have been interesting to see a shot at 20 odd for comparison.
Good test mason. When are you gonna sling some 243 winchester at the gel blocks?
All copper bullets are less dense than cup and core lead bullets. A 150 is probably longer and equal to 170+ grain bullets and also explains why it didn't stabilize with your twist.
I think the bullet would expand more if it was the standard velocity
I'll stick with 140gr monoflex. It produces a much wider and longer wound channel.
Got that fed premium tsx for my sako A2 308 and it goes all over crappy ammo. Hand loaded tsx works fine. Does your ammo store have Sako powerhead Blade copper bullets in any caliber, would love to see gel test.
I’ve never seen Sako Powerhead anywhere ever
Listed velocity. Probably used 20 in barrel instead of the old 26 in.
I believe 150gr solid copper is way too long too be accurate in most 1-12” twist lever guns. My 94 is specified at a 1-12” twist but it’s actually a 1-12.5” when measured. I would like too see a 120 or 130gr version of this bullet from Barnes.
There isnt enough room for powder, the 150 grain all copper would take up the same space as a 170 grain copper/lead projectile so thats why its ~150 grain speeds
30/30 has low velocity ammo needs to be improved love my 30 /30 perhaps someone will find a way to bring up the velocity 26 f.p s. Would be great.
3030 - PPU 150gr and 170gr
3030 - Federal Hammerdown
Can't say I'm terribly surprised at the accuracy unfortunately. I wonder if the new Ruger-made rifles without the microgroove rifling like them better, and I've heard just about nothing but good things with these loads in the Winchester rifles.
I was wondering about whether or not the microgroove rifling that Marlin used to employ might affect accuracy with an all-copper bullet. The grooves are much shallower and there are more of them. Maybe they aren’t getting enough grip on the bullet to stabilize it? Also, sometimes the bore diameter runs a bit big in older Marlins.
I have two new Mayodan-made Marlins, a 336 Classic and an 1895 Guide Gun, in addition to several older JM Marlins. So far the new hammer forged barrels are an improvement in terms of accuracy, but I haven’t tried copper bullets.
They need to drop the weight lower to increase velocity.
Solid copper bullets suck all the way around.
The FSM TUI blows that out of the water.
Each hit blow up ?
I thought it was common knowledge that you need to clean barrels free of previous copper jacket fouling before shooting solid copper. Otherwise you get what you got. All over the place.
Federal and PMC seems to be right on the money with the velocities stated on the box. Hornady is alway several hundred FPS low. Hornady is high priced garbage
I am a Barns guy
I lpve this, but maybe we should reconsider the name "Copper Killers".
Why
@@masonoutdoors_masonleather Copper is old slang language for police officers.
You cannot beat lead copper is a hipe
That should blow the pump out of a big boy @ a good distance. Shouldn't have to walk far to find him. Shoot me on a price for a custom leather, plane-jane skirt for my Henry 30-30. Just 6 round loops on right side. Every one knows it's a Henry!
Please see my website www.masonleather.com
Hi ,only have only watched a couple of vid's from u and overall I like what u do, take this with a grain of salt. U say something that bothers me as I'm pretty sure it isn't right. The clear jell is NOT the same as the F.B.I. jell. I have watched comparisons side by side that shows they are not. Most people don't use it because it doesn't hold up to the sun/heat as well and is easier to see. A big difference in the 45acp. If u want look it up. Thanks for ur time making the vid's.
Glad to be of service. I never say that it is FBI gel or the gel the FBI uses, I say “that it has been calibrated to meet the FBI’s ballistics testing protocol” which is a true statement.