Is Heather ACTUALLY Bad Queer Representation? || 🏳️🌈 SRPG Sapphics 🏳️🌈
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2023
- I've wanted to start a new character/story driven series for a while, and after tossing around several ideas I decided to embrace my status as CZcams's Premiere Fire Emblem Lesbian and look at the queer women of Fire Emblem. Though this series won't be strictly chronological, the OG Lesbian Heather from Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn seemed like the ideal place to start. She has a reputation of being a one-note character who's only dialogue is about hating men and loving homosexuality, but is this a fair interpretation of the character? Let's take a closer look and find out.
In SRPG Sapphics, I take a look at Fire Emblem's long history of queer women (and queer bait women) from a character and story perspective. If you have a favorite (or hated) queer lady you want me to look into, please suggest them in the comments! - Hry
I love the steel greatlance (LYING)
I love Nephenee being unavoidably weighed down (LYING)
I love Radiant Dawn's dedication to curating map design (LYING)
I love Heather ogling the pretty ladies (TRUTHING)
Even if she was just a man hater who loves being gay, she'd be so real for that
Fake
I wouldn't exactly say bigotry is great regardless of the demographics of the person with the bigoted mindset
@@sam7559 oh nyoooo won't anyone think of the poor men???
@@cece_luna it's the principle of the matter. Saying it's okay to be bigoted towards one group because X reason means you can justify bigotry towards any group if you're willing to look hard enough for a reason to.
@@sam7559 Hell yeah bruthar! Men are rhe real victims here!!!!! I wanna kiss you so bad for defending the most oppressed group in America
As far as future episodes that I'd think would be interesting:
1. Lyn/Florina even if it's not implicit both because I think it's an interesting way to explore "Historians thought they were good friends" type endings and because I'm biased towards them because a friend of mine really likes them
2. F!Byleth (or maybe player avatars in general if that's easier) in a similar regard to this one where the focus is whether or not a given aspect of their character (the student/teacher dynamics in Byleth's case) is problematic in how it relates to queer representation
Funny you should mention the avatars because I'm already working on that one.
L’arachel and Erika
a thing to note wrt the Caineghis dialogue: as far as I've seen, the overwhelming majority of characters in Radiant Dawn has specific (and usually only slightly different) dialogue for just this one small group of characters, of which Caineghis is a part of -- alongside Naesala, Elincia, the herons, and probably a few more characters that my memory is too spotty to catch atm. my guess on that front is that, in the original Japanese text, the "unique" dialogue addressed at these characters -- who are, one and all, royalty -- may have been just the same thing with an adequately formal register, and since English doesn't do formal language quite to the extent Japanese does, the translators were left to sort of gently toy with those lines, if they felt the need to change anything in them at all.
I love the expression "dump the blue paint on" to refer to joining up with the player--I don't know if you came up with that, but it's amazing!
This is kinda tangential, but there are at least a couple of FE fan games that are explicitly LGBTQ like Walk With the Living 1 and 2 and Bright Blades. Not sure if you're interested in checking those out, but I will vouch for the quality of the writing in WwtL, at least. I'd be interested to hear your take on those titles. 🙂
I know I've heard that phrase be used in the FE community before for sure.
Also Sinister Design's own Telepath Tactics, which has an explicitly queer and generally well written lead heroine, but of course he's too modest to shout that out in his comment.
@@Oblivion776 Thank you ❤️
Omg i love the way you introduced yourself with being the premiere FE lesbian. Get it queen
@@hanzou1238 L
Except he can't be a lesbian due to being a guy, and he apparently also hates people who try to help him.
@@hanzou1238 True, but here's the neat part, SHE isn't a guy. Also the people who you say are trying to "help" her, are actively denying her true identity and this only HURTS people like her, she doesn't want your "help" she doesn't NEED your "help". The "help" you talk about only hurst trans people, because turns out DENYING YOUR TRANS IDENTITY ACTUALLY HAVE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH! NOT TO MENTION SCIENCE RECOGNIZES THE VALIDTY OF TRANS PEOPLE, so not only are you transphobic, but also really dumb...
shout out to brom btw what an ally
I haven't played tellius but like Heather I would also join the army because Nepheene is cute
W vid
Heather is a character who's kinda grown on me over the years, I could never really put it into words, but I found her more interesting than meets the eye, especially for a Radiant Dawn OC. Definitely helps that I brought her to the Tower in one run (alongside Brom, Ilyana, and Pelleas, that sure was a run). I would assume that IS knows the fanbase loathes RD supports, so I figure a remaster with a proper support system would do wonders for her characterization. Regardless, I hope this video does something in the way of putting down the "Heather is a misandrist" or "Heather's entire personality is being gay" takes lol
Basically, a combination of IS trying hard to make her stand out for a character who barely talks. And the lack of any true support to flesh her out. I think if she can talk to more people Path of Radiance style, then she'll be much more appreciated. Her Backstory is fine enough to be a thief though.
Yeah what REALLY hurts all the Radiant Dawn introduced characters sans Micaiah being the Co-Main Character along with Ike and Yune because she's a late game "Tiki" (Mysterious Waifu character who joins pretty late, though "join" is she's within Micaiah) is the fact the game didn't bother to flesh them out very much! Some got fleshing out, but it felt like this was "FE3 all over again (At least FE4 & 5 got SOME characterization, ESPECIALLY taking into mind of FE5!)
Heather I kind of FORGOT about her because she's competing HEAVILY against Sothe or Volke, and Sothe being the FMC to Micaiah is going to be the ONLY Whisper you really need (And Volke is an Assassin, which is LEAGUES better then Whisper in every way) so Heather gets lost in the way side! A filler that wasn't even worth much other then early chip damage for Nephenee (My #1 favorite of the Radiant Game characters next to Ike and Micaiah! Seriously I ALWAYS love character's who are EXPY or similar to her, ESPECIALLY her Soldier-Halberdier class because of her! Namely Oboro, Mozu, Timerra and Lapis, ESPECIALLY Lapis!) and Brom (if I'm not caring to using Gatrie....and why wouldn't I! Brom was great in POR because Gatrie leaves for abit!)
Maybe more fleshing out might have made me like Heather! But I do like Brom, and she insults Brom for no reason then "he's a man" so I disliked her from the start! If not for my "No death" mentality with Fire Emblem in general. She'd have been a human shield for Brom (A character who can take hits compared to her LOL)
@@paulman34340 Heather's shining character moment in RD is opening chests in 4-4 for Ike's army. And she's a queen for it.
@@LoudWaffle Yeah, almost forgot apit about that! Well she has SOME use! But she never went up the tower with me (Seriously the Dawn Brigade were the ONLY new RD characters I ever took to Endgame on runs! Really Nolan was the only one to Match Boyd, Edward was decent, but died to easily that I started mockingly calling him "Two Hit Eddy" because no matter if he got Super Lucky in HP or Defense, he never survived TWO HITS! That and Zihark and Mia knew how to FUCKING DODGE hits. Something Swordmasters are suppose to be good at! Edward seemed to forget the Mercenary/Hero class was reserved for Ike only; But didn't have the proper stats to back up his mimicry! And Leo, Dear God Leo was forgotten the very moment I had Rolf with his POR bonuses and Shinon....ESPECIALLY Shinon! Laura was pointless after Micaiah promoted and could use Staves, Aran, I just had to laugh at the dude confusing the Soldier Class for Knight with his Stats, and NO ONE outshines my Battle Goddess Valkyrie Nephenee! NO ONE! So yeah Everyone NEW to RD usually got BENCHED HARD! and by New I'm refering to "they weren't in POR! Even Renning was used cause technically he IS a POR character, he was talked about alot, being Elincia Uncle, he WAS a boss even if he wasn't in his right mind! So I count him as a POR NPC finally being made playable like Sigrun and Leanne)
Sorry about the Wall of Text
“Nothing straight about her but her posture” - Brom Tzu or something idk what im saying i just liked listening to the video looking forward to more in this format
So excited for the rest of this series!! Loved the vid
This was really interesting. Nice going and looking forwards to what you make next.
19:22
Yeah, poor Vika. She has like, 2 lines, right?
Throwing out the obligatory "talk about how Fates handles the lesbian characters" because I'm certain you are really looking forward to it, but aside from that, I think it would be cool to hear your thoughts on Mercedes. I feel like of the Three Houses cast, she is one of the more compelling characters. Would also be fun to see how well she works character wise as a contrast to how she works mechanically. That being said, it has been a long time since I've played 3H, so maybe I'm viewing how well her characterization was done through rose tinted glasses, regardless I think an in depth analysis would be interesting.
I'm really not looking forward to the fates video hahah those characters are SO BAD 😭
@Dani Doyle soleil has entered the chat
Yeah fates representation doesn't make me feel any shred of joy
I appreciate videos like this because it gives me access to a broader perspective from someone who *actually* comes from the community in question instead of just being told how other people feel by someone who isn't even a part of that community.
Heather never felt super insulting or "man-hating" to me growing up, but to be fair I was 10 when I first played the game and fell in love with the game entirely so my innate reaction to Radiant Dawn has always been to defend it, so it's good to see a breakdown that's deeper than the people who try to retroactively redefine all past games and characters as bad and one note.
I love heather. My (canon) OG lesbian❤. I just wish radiant dawn had like actual supports :c cause i like the characters, but they have so little screen time
Really well-made video. Got me to subscribe, hope to see more of this content in the future!
This is a really cool vid and I'm excited to see more and if you can give a heads up when Dorothea is coming up I'll be wanted to go out and get a dumptruck full of popcorn
You forgot her C support with Leanne where she calls her a "pretty, pretty princess". No more interesting than the other supports but I found it fun
Well gee I can't wait for you to cover some more recent examples. Not naming anything specific. Anyway good vid.
this was certainly interesting.
considering lot us don't take much notice dialog, at least i don't maybe cut scenes.
id like to image mostly due when 1st come in-contact with her that got people upset .
Radiant Dawn got be one my fav fire emblems games :D
mostly because at least to my knowledge !!!!
it was one 1st games to have whisper class < forgive spelling
animation for assassin class was one my fav so been able go above it made my day :D
Heather is one of the deepest characters in RD, which means that she's almost as deep as FE12 Darros. Truly, one of the FE characters of all time.
Also, Astrid and Makalov regressed into a flanderizations of themselves? I must disagree, if you ever look at Astrid's battle quotes you can see that she's still adamant about living her own life.
"Astrid: Lord Lekain...
Lekain: Hm? You... You are from House Damiell...
Astrid: Yes, I am. It’s been a while, but I didn’t think you’d forget me quite so easily. I wasn’t sure at the time, but marrying you would have been the biggest mistake of my life."
"Hetzel: Mortals cannot measure up to gods. Any child knows as much. Why do you not kneel before her?
Astrid: That would be throwing away my own beliefs to live a life of blind obedience. I stopped doing that three years ago, and I’ve never looked back."
And I must disagree with the idea that her excusing Makalov's bad behavior as it's perfectly believable that someone as naive as Astrid would be would be willing to excuse his actions. And Makalov does have some self awareness in PoR and likely the ability to change, but he's seen constantly falling into his old ways in PoR, so why would he suddenly change in RD?
Finally someone else appreciates RD Astrid. She's choosing the life she wants, and ironically the overwhelming perception in the fandom is that her character was ruined because she made a choice they don't like. Yet Makalov is basically the opposite of the people she didn't want to be with back in Begnion, like Lekain. He may be a bum, but he's a bum she chose and definitely not evil.
As for Makalov, I would have liked to see him improve more than he did between the two games (tl: not at all), but he's more of a victim of no fleshed out support convos than anything.
its surprising to see people say that Astrid got ruined when the whole point of this parallel was choosing between Makalov who despite his flaws still works towards a good cause for Crimea against Lekain who is absolutely devoid of morals
yesss i love character deep dives like this
i have a whole playlist of character deep dives, if you want more :)
i really want the Tellius games to get remade for quite a few reason but one of those reason being the many ways that Radiant Dawn could be improved, one of which is to have proper support conversations.
in regards to that i've also been thinking about which characters should support with who.
in the case of Heather, i would have her support with Nephenee, Brom, Lucia, Gatrie and Lyre.
Hi I'm super late on this video but I've been watching your content for a lil bit now and found this video and Heather is one of my favorite characters! Personally, I don't really agree with the conclusion of Heather being an outright asshole, moreso rude seems to be her default state. And that's a trait I think many other FE characters would share, Ike even himself is a great example of that, and I feel like the espionage thing with the insight of her support with Volke is moreso meant to imply that Heather has a degree of pride and joy in what she does. We see that very clearly in how nonchalant she is about manipulating het men (Gatrie namely, based on his supports in PoR) and so I think her outburst in that scene was more of a combo of her rude default state + her passion so to speak for thievery and espionage. I think it still makes her definitely a flawed character, but not one I think I would ever say is necessarily a *bad* person, she;s just got character flaws! And like you say, character flaws are something that make characters really interesting especially with this series. It HAS been such a long time we've gotten a character with flaws as pronounced as some characters from older games and because of that my fondness for them has only grown, it makes them feel like real people
I'm entirely missing the point of the video in order to comment
9:54 Heather is proabably more competent in her join chapter than you actually gave credit!
She doesn't deal 0 damage to Yeardley, There's a Spectre Card in the southern house and she has the highest magic of the 2-1 trio
Hilariously this Spectre Card can actually change some damage ranges, Brom + Nephenee Wrath crit at base isn't actually enough to kill him, assuming no transfers Brom does 10x1 and Neph does 9x3 with Wrath, leaving him with 1 HP, meaning it's possible to have Brom+Heather with Spectre Card combine to set up the Wrath kill, but Brom alone can't do it without multiple hits or strength transfers
it's niche, but in a context where you're trying to go for full rewards, another option for a combinations of attacks to eliminate Yeardley faster can sometimes come up because the chapter has a lot of random variance particularlly with the volunteer AI that can mess things up and Nephenee and Brom tink with the Card while the damage Yeardley deals can sometimes make it awkward for Neph to attack in to set up the kill herself while maintaing her ability to Wrath on the next EP without dying
I recognize that this has literally nothing to do with anything relevant, but Spectre Card Heather is too awesome not to acknowledge.
I think the Laguz Royals have mostly unique supports? I’m not certain but I do remember reading some RD supports and noticing a lot of characters call the Royals by name.
I didn't really get into the online community for FE until a few years ago, so I didn't know about Heather's reputation until recently. But I always really enjoyed her character when I was a kid because its kinda fun to just watch someone be an asshole, and as I grew up a bit and became more aware of what queerness actually means in broader societal context, I came to appreciate her a whole lot more. I think Heather is one of my favorite characters in the series as a whole, and I am eternally frustrated that not only does she not get much room to be a character, but you can't even justify bringing her to the damn tower bc Sothe has to be there for some reason.
Love love love the series, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts about more queer fire emblem women!!
While it isn't as clear, another character who fits Heather's archetype of simply doing things because that's what they are good at is Catherine from 3 Houses. Catherine as well as Shamir have a ton of sapphic undertones throughout the game, especially in their supports. However, Catherine specifically what fascinates me is that as a person I abhor her guts. She is a murder hobo who simply wants to kill people for the fun of it and it is something she's good at. Having the idea of Rhea backing her up on that is what also further enhances her seeming zealotry. What is fascinating is that we are not sure how far her loyalty goes. I don't think it goes far enough that if presented with sparing her life or Rhea's, she would sacrifice hers willingly. Catherine is the type of horrible human being to do anything for self-preservation and sink to the ground her nearest allies. Rhea is simply her benefactor who condones her merciless killing. As a character, she represents also a lot of things wrong with Faerghus as well as the concept of knighthood and is interesting to break down. As a person, she is an irredeemable, despicable and downright deplorable murderer with the guise of a knight. But as a character, she expands on the wrongs of Fodlan and the negatives of Rhea's ruling of it. It is one of the few characters where being terrible people is the main point of them. Then again, a dual coverage of Catherine and Shamir would be interesting.
I didn't think of Catherine this way. She's still a very straightforward, one-dimensional character...
i just learned something interesting, it seems that Radiant Dawn was originally gonna have support conversations but it got cut in development. now the way it was intended to work is that everyone would be able to support with everyone else like in the final product but certain pairings would have a full conversation albeit only with their A-support.
here's a list of characters that Heather was gonna have support conversations with.
Calill, Brom, Haar, Lucia, Mist, Nephenee, Vika, Volke.
8:15, faye moment
i love everything you said, however, Marcia living that enemy phase was a miracle.
Thats why i included the clip, it was so funny I had to include it
I have a passing interest in queer subtext in Fire Emblem, though my knowledge of the newer games is lacking due to me losing interest after the introduction of s-supports, here are all the sapphic examples I have found
Very likely; Jugdral- Ena Elibe- Lyn, Florina, Tellius- Elincia, Lucia, Illyana, Fiona
Somewhat likely: Jugdral- Altena Magvel- L’archeal Tellius- Sigrun, Tanith
Maybe: Jugdral: Julia Magvel: Eirika, Tana Tellius: Jill, Mist
As for newer games I often hear: Ylisse: Severa, Kjelle, Maribelle, Tharja Fates: Camilla Fodlan: Petra, Catherine, Shamir and Manuela
Also, for anyone curious I recommend reading the Illyana and Lucia support, it gets Heather levels of gay at some points
Heather was impactful for me as a kid just because she was one of the only examples of an obvious, unabashed lesbian I had access too. It was still meaningful representation to me, even if it was shallow and imperfect.
Honestly, I'm surprised a game as old as this had such a clear LGBT representation in the form of Heather, it's already rare to find characters like this in modern pieces of media, let alone older ones like the Tellus FE games.
Good video, I definitely think you've a point in that Heather is more of just a jackass in general than a "man hater", whatever that means. I was more repulsed at her calling Brom a hick more than anything she says to Yeardly/Brom regarding gender, and was surprised to find that I was the odd man out.
Although I'll take issue with the assertion that we haven't had true assholes in the army as blue units: like, Shinon is right there.
Could you do a video on characters that definitely WOULD be bisexual in gameplay if Intsys wasn’t a halfassing things? I’m talking Tharja, Camilla (Unfortunately), Soleil (I REALLY wanna see the Soleil video tbh. Pls pls pls pls)
Thank you so much for this
a Thraja video is in the works already :). The others are ...eventually coming but not sure how soon (sorry). Solei is one i'll have to do eventually but am not looking forward to.
I hear you… Soleil is one of those characters where I feel I HAVE TO ignore all the in game text and go “Wow! Pretty lady!”
I'm genuinely such a fan of heather she's such a queen
If I could recommend one I'd suggest Sonya? Iirc she seemed to be implied aro if not even aroace, she holds no interest in romance and dialogue that would typically be for flirting on a character like this seems to focus more on familial bonds than romantic, although obviously it's kind of a shallow well,,, If you want an even shallower well though Nifl works too if you feel like making a three minute long video if you're busy or something idk she counts
wait this is just sapphics oops
Damn guess I'm a Brom stan now. Not what I expected out of this video.
brom is so cool
I’ve been so excited for this series! Also even if I knew of another FE lesbian content creator, I think you’d still be THE premier one lol
Definitely fascinating! I’ve heard about Heather’s existence but I didnt know about the nuances there, very interesting!
Huh! I feel like the more I learned about Heather the more I realized she's a really flawed person, but not a poorly written character either?
She doesn't seem to hate men and considering the supports, especially the Naesala one, but honestly that same support also really highlights her biggest flaw: she's incredibly gullible and prone to trusting certain people way more than she should for a thief. Not just if they're female, either. If they seem competent and share a field with her she seems to trust in them regardless of gender. Interesting
This was a cool video, I look forward to future entries. I don't really know if I can name any queer females, but.. Uhh, maybe Catherine? Something about those her always kind of stuck out to me in some way. Especially with how she talks about Rhea sometimes
Heather will always be my girly - she’s one of the few we had back in the day
So glad Heather dodged the misandry allegations 🙏🙏
But seriously though, Heather is one of my fav characters from RD, and I’m glad someone made a whole video on her. Great Job!
Love to see the Brom support on this channel, he's just a wacky man in a wacky world.
Anyways I doubt there is enough substance to this for a video but Elincia and Lucia are extremely gay for each other and nobody can convince me otherwise
omg, i love heather so much, i really wish she got more screentime. now i want to do something for her like fanart, an animatic, idk what but something
No matter how many people think Heather is a jerk, she'll always be a top tier lesbean in my heart!
im honestly not sure if there's enough wlw characters, let alone queer characters in general in fire emblem for more than like... 4 episodes???
i can maybe see a video about Tharja in Fates who's... not great, a video about the bi S support stuff in Three Houses where some characters still love same gender Byleth, and then idk what youd do after that tbh. have a been a blind gal this whole time or something?
edit: oh God I forgot about Soleil, or whatever the name of Laslow's kid is. I loved her as a unit but her actually character... Jesus fucking christ...
(also IM STILL FUCKING TRANSGENDER🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️)
Honestly as a thief enjoyer i genuinely really happen to enjoy heather yes she is an absolutely horrible person sometimes but i enjoy that about her so much......and yeah if someones looking for a predator youve got soleil right there (i dont hate soleil but oh my god fates writing)
As far as who id want to see its difficult to say i personally think some of eties supports in engage were queer coded buuuuut im not sure theres enough evidence in her supports to support etie being sapphic (shes one of my favorite engage character's personally)
but as far as other characters i could see being discussed i think a dive into rhajat could be interesting the concept of an obsessive lesbian girlfiriend was very interesting but in true fates fashion....something went wrong
Other people don't like Heather because she's bad LGBT rep or something, I don't like Heather because her design looks weirdly 2000s for a medievalish fantasy setting (boobtube and jeans? huh?). Jokes aside, I agree with you.
I did find what is apparently a unique support dialogue for Heather + Leanne on serenesforest, in which Heather calls Leanne pretty, but I could only find a C and not a B or A dialogue line. I've found that, weirdly enough, *a lot* of characters have unique dialogue with Volke (including Nasir and Renning).
To be fair, some FE characters really have some weird character design. (specially in more modern titles..)
anyway next Sapphic do vyland
As a lesbian myself i think lesbians with dominant personality types often get mistaken as being man haters when its more of a competitive thing. On a side nite i made her support with titania and enjoyed their interactions
0:50 ~premiere~
yeah i timed it like that on purpose
You know? I don't know who Brom is, but he sure as hell sounds like a massive gigachad.
I cannot watch yet as I am at work 💀 but nonetheless want to suggest topics.
I am an annoying FE6 and Guinevere/Melady stan so I will suggest them at least being mentioned. I don't know how much there is to say other than Melady has a boyfriend, they fight on opposite sides of the war, and Melady and Guinevere seem really close. Like Melady is in love. To me.
I think Minerva/Palla is interesting from a history of FE standpoint. It isn't really present in the games but was the first big WLW pairing to become popular, and I feel like wyvern riders and princess/knight combos have become a classic. Even Eda in Thracia had no male LI and dedicates her life to a princess.
I am dreading the Fates video because I generally enjoy the Fates cast but the LBGT rep is sooo bad 😭 did I do a file to marry the only woman I could marry? Yes. But it was a knockoff of Tharja who I don't even like. I wish I could marry Charlotte or Orochi. Speaking of Orochi, her and Kagero. I'm not that big on them but they're popular.
Another topic I'm interested in is characters who are bi but not love interests for the same-gender Byleth. Aka Catherine specifically. She's my favorite 3H character and I'm sad I can't marry her but I find the topic interesting. A lot of the 3H characters who are not bi for Byleth have romantic-ish ends with others.
I'm so sorry that was so much.
Also I'm a big L'Arachel/Eirika girl but I think that's been suggested. They are everything
Her joining Ike's army is a bit farfetched but I suppose she is following Ilyana and Nephenee around. Would be interesting if Micaiah could recruit Heather.
"It's funny how she potentially gets herself in a massive war and possibly killing god just because she found a girl in the army attractive."
Avarage JRPG plot in a nuttshell.
"Sometimes Heather will just start talking about how she thinks a woman is pretty"
I mean, that's something many people do, regardless of being a lesbian or not... many people like to sometimes talk about how a person they find attractive is... ATTRACTIVE TO THEM.... straight people do it, gay people do it, lesbians, bisexuals, you name it. Why would that be a problem?
Also on Heather joining due to being attracted to another woman... dude, there are many cases of straight people doing the exact same thing in Fire Emblem. So much so that there's this huge meme of Caeda from Shadow Dragon "manipulating" enemy men into joining the army by "seducing" them. And don't even get me started on those 2 dudes from Geneaology of the Holy War Gen 2 who only join your army because they were in a competition to see who could get in Larcei's.... you know what I mean....
Not to mention the green cavalier from FE7 whose name I don't remember because I just don't care who's first appearance was basically him trying to flirt with Lyn, and how he later goes out to try and flirt with a married woman (Luise) in a support conversation...
There are SO MANY EXAMPLES OF THIS, yet Heather is problematic for doing the same? I don't get it.... Also considering that she's a thief, it stands to reason she may not necessarely be the most noble character in the world... you know... being a thief....
(Also I'm pretty sure there are recruitable male characters in other FE games who are also openly sexist, so... again... how is Heather any different from them.... being LGBT doesn't prevent you from being kind of a jerk you know?)
PS: Caeda scares me sometimes....
I mean, unwanted comments on someone else's appearance can constitute harassment. It is all context dependent.
@@DaniDoyle Oh yeah, true.. that should absolutely be taken into consideration as well.
fellas
Sad that some people consider Heather a man-hater. She is pretty great, and would have greatly benefitted from Path of Radiance's Support System. One day I want to see her get a friendship with Rhys, for example.
This was such a pleasant video.
Tbh she seems a little similar to Charlotte? Just with any desire she directs towards men being faked and her kindly front being directed at anyone she figures could give her something she desires. In particular u can kind of guess why she’s so irritable, same as Charlotte, because money struggles can do that to someone, and her mother’s life is on the line if she needs medicine. It’s not the deepest thing ever and Charlotte obviously does it better but it is interesting
3:04 She is predatory, but a predatory bisexual. It’s wrong, and I don’t like it, and I hc it’s something she learns from and grows out of after her Ophelia support because god that was awful, and Soleil is my fave of all time. There’s so much to like about her, the localization writers did not need to do her like that.
Heather might not be the BEST sort of representation out there... I mean with how little Radiant Dawn gives their new characters, like please she's not getting anywhere near the top, at least the game has her be true to that. It's not someone like Soleil who acts gay 100% of the time, harass other women because of it, and then just says she can't S support with any women... Including the MC who has a female on female S support.
She’s obviously still nicer than king Ashnard
I honestly think a lot of her reputation as being a shallow character is just a result of the way FE10 works and is written, if it had FE9's support system on her side she would probably get enough fleshing out that it would dispel the accusations a little more. As it stands, it takes reading carefully into what's there like you did, which not everyone will do.
Everyone who has played fire emblem is queer in my experience (me, my brother, and my girlfriend 😂)
I would try to use myself as an example... but I'm aromantic so that wouldn't work, lmao.
honestly heather is just about the only thing that makes me want to come back to finish radiant dawn, i LOVE lesbians.
I dunno, I feel this is kind of missing the forest for the LGBTrees, so to speak. Your scrutiny of her recruitment convo with Brom certainly reveals a more charitable possible reading, but I also don't think it's the reading most people are likely to come to. It is pretty deeply vitriolic ("you old hick", "you smelly pig farmer", "hayseed", and ultimately "I couldn't care less about you, but I can't just sit back when a girl's in trouble") and with the way most queer coded woman have been historically written in the overwhelming majority of media ever, I think it is absolutely the most reasonable conclusion to assume that the writers just decided to write a generic man-hating lesbian. Sure she's clearly just an asshole in general and only puts on a veneer of cordiality with women she finds attractive, but even that doesn't actually particularly contradict the notion of her hating men especially. Her volunteering to dupe a guy that thinks she's cute isn't "man hating" on its own, but it does still smell of misandrist lesbian and manipulative lesbian stereotypes, which again comes off as lazy and ignorant queer writing and does nothing to convince the reader that they should be charitable in interpreting the way the character was written. Her espousing "women pretty" in every piece of story dialogue she has isn't the only or most trite characterization in Fire Emblem (or heck even Tellius, cough cough Ilyana) but it's still lazy. So taken together, you have a character with three main sources of characterization, two of which smell problematic and all of which reek of laziness. I really don't think "Heather is a problematic, lazily-written, misandrist-coded lesbian and consequently poorly done queer representation" is an unreasonable conclusion to draw from that. Maybe "Heather is lazily written, with some elements which additionally feel reminiscent of homophobic tropes" is the more appropriately nuanced take, but I'm not gonna fault folks for not being willing to front that much nuance, especially in the context of the first explicitly queer character in the series after 17 years.
I do agree though that anyone using the Yeardley boss quote as definitive evidence has some reading comprehension deficiencies. "I don't like men like you!" is a perfectly neutral line and willfully interpreting it otherwise definitely feels disingenuous.
The manipulative stuff is definitely icky and i can see the parallel to lesbophobic stereotypes, but i still wouldn't say misandry is an appropriate label, I just don't see the specific hostility towards men that is so frequently posited.
while she could be a better character. she isnt the worst in the world. shes still better than like makalov lol. hes like the only unit in the game I dont want in heroes. but as for her? I just find it odd why she doesnt like man.
So is this just wlw or is it all queer women?
all queer women. I know Sapphic is WLW and many Aero/Ace people do not identify with the term, but the title is more for the anagram of it than 100% accuracy.
@@DaniDoyle exciting! Here's looking forward to it!
Even if Heather was a “man hater” I don’t think that would be unreasonable for a woman to be, unless there’s some baggage around that term I’m unaware of. I can admit that men kinda suck sometimes!
I like Heather. Definitely one of the better lgbtq+ characters in terms of representation I think. I wish Sothe wasn’t forced for tower otherwise I’d probably regularly deploy her.
not saying that heather is a man hater, but honestly i'd be alright if there was an actual man hater in fire emblem. we have actual racist characters and misogynistic characters who are fan favorites. i think it's fine if there's one that hates men
I love this video, but I have big grievances with the statement that “most people in Tellius are hetero”
Why's that?
@@DaniDoyle as far as I am concerned the whole continent of Tellius is one big fruit basket
@@DaniDoyle I meaaaaaan Ike and Soren be pretty fruity.
America
Long live LGBTQ!!
Horray!
... Heather has characterization?
I notice you didn't talk about her saying "greater fools were never made" right after saying it's "probably more men fighting". That's a pretty big red flag, why didn't it stick out to you?
Pretty sure o did talk s about that
@@DaniDoyle did you do it later in some other section? Because when you talk about her intro you just mention the "more men fighting" and then went right to the recruitment dialogue.
*Sigh* Women...
FE fans hate reading
Say brom backwards
😳
You scream lesbian WAYYYYY MORE than Heather? A female lord and her female retainer😭
The 'I hate men like you' is still bad imo. Why feel the need to specify the gender if its specifically calling out bad characteristics either gender could have.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 keep stretchin' bud
Now you're just stretching, specially when that quote could have easily come out of another man's mouth as well.
Because 1, that guy is a man, and 2, he's a jerk. So obviously she doesn't like men like him... nobody likes men like him. There's nothing wrong with that.
This whole video is pro Brom propaganda.
What the fuck can characters just be allowed to be characters
This is a character analysis video...
I feel like you didn't watch the video, my man :P
This video is literally analysing her character.. you know... and DEFENDING HER CHARACTER... so I think you need to watch the video a bit before you comment.
"man-hater? hidden depth? only one character trait?" wow she's just like me fr