Emilie Mayer - Symphony No.7 in F-minor (1856)
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
- Emilie Mayer (14 May 1812, Friedland, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern -- 10 April 1883, Berlin) was a German composer of Romantic music.
Work: Symphony No.7 in F-minor (1856)
Mov.I: Allegro agitato 00:00
Mov.II: Adagio 10:50
Mov.III: Scherzo, Allegro vivace 20:57
Mov.IV: Finale: Allegro vivace 27:42
Orchestra: Kammersymphonie Berlin
Conductor: Jürgen Bruns - Hudba
This is a fascinating discovery. Thank so much for bringing this magnificent musical piece from a forgotten artist, especially a very talented woman.
So many women composers of great talent that deserve better than being forgotten. thanks for posting this lovely symphony, and thanks for the chamber orchestra for playing it.
Check out the Composer Diversity Database. It's a project my school is working on to help diversify concert programming.
i just saw a documentary about her: czcams.com/video/YGrICvbGKUA/video.html
Matthew, I am writing a project on this topic.
@@mattslazik Cool. I truly believe that it was the Ries's, Mayer's, Berwalds and Eggerts of the music world back in the day that made music music. No knock on Mozart, Haydn or Beethoven. However, there are so many great composers (male, female, black, etc.) that are lost to history. Salieri, who's legacy was ruined by vicious rumor, is now having his operas more frequently performed for example. And Salieri taught Czerny, Schubert and Liszt.
@@culturalconfederacy782 He also taught Mozart's younger son.
Absolutely amazing. How she can be written out of music history is completely unbelievable.
Dear Kuhlau, you simple are a favourite place for great music. Endless performances of Beethoven and Brahms from our orchestras, boring ... now for some lovely discoveries ... love this woman's music, so graceful, poetic and passionate.
Endless performances of Beethoven and Brahms. Indeed. And once you are 80+ its becomes frustration
@@arlettehellemans2117 Granted...but these neglected composers are usually neglected with good reason.
That reason is far not so good
I rejoice and jump cheerfully at the " discovery " of these musical jewels. Fortunately the catalogue of classical composers is immense AND MOST OF IT STILL REMAINS TO BE DUG OUT. The great masters, we all know them and I am quite positive that they would have loved to meet all these " neglected " brothers and sisters in the vast panorama of the musical world.
I would not be surprised if most of these "great masters" were so full in their own works that they did not care for things like meeting people, but then again a lot of them were romantics so who knows
Not a fair or accurate remark regarding the great masters and their interaction with what we now call lesser known composers. Go and read the life stories of these lesser known composers (many discussed on Weakipedea), and you will be surprised how many of them rubbed shoulders with the great masters, being taught by them. Many off them was even enouraged or recommended by the great masters to continue musical studies. I can can give you a long lists of this happening even well into the 20th century. So don't blame the great masters for the neglect of the lesser known composer. It was not the great masters who neglected those composers, but us, the average listener. Music that attracts audiences stay in the repetoir, so the listening public were the ones over the past 2 centuries who condemmed many composers, who were actually popalar in their time, to the ranks of the neglected.
Although I realize that it doesn't look like that when you read what I said but I did not mean that they ignored lesser known composers but that they were entranced by their own work
You mean second rate composers? Most composers are second rate or even lower, they're not neglected, their music just isn't as great.
@@DimitriRastoropov The nosebleeds outnumber the cream of the crop by a huge margin in every field that any creative effort takes place in. However, many composers with absolutely stellar ability have been neglected for reasons other than the creative quality of their works. Take Adolf Henselt: his compositions are of very high quality and his piano concerto used to be part of the standard repertoire and widely published and played. But it is also so incredibly difficult that Artur Rubinstein, who performed it in concert earlier in his career, never dared to play it again in the recording era.
Take Franz Schmidt: false accusations of national socialist sympathies, stemming from national socialists using an unfinished cantata of his (finished by a colleague and having nationalistic lyrics added) after his death, have destroyed his reputation. His symphonies are absolute masterpieces and are highly original in style. The process of undoing the damage of the smear campaign once waged against him is still in the making but it will take decades until his reputation is back where it should be.
Take Charles-Valentin Alkan: his musical output is large and varied, and highly original, and most of it is of high quality. His reclusive personality combined with financial security that he gained quite early in life, meant that he didn't promote his own works and retired from the concert stage for decades. He was largely forgotten until a renewal of the interest in his music took place in the 1960s and 1970s.
Reputations of composers aren't a mere function of the quality of their output. They are at least as much a product of the whim of the day, historic revisionism, and pure chance. All it takes for a forgotten composer to be rediscovered is a superstar performer deciding to throw his full weight behind them, like what Raymond Lewenthal, Ronald Smith and Marc-André Hamelin did for Alkan.
Even J.S. Bach was almost forgotten for 70 years after his death except by composers who studied his choral harmonisations and keyboard works, and very little of his vast musical output was in print until the early 20th century.
The Adagio from this Symphony is absolutely beautiful.
Thank you. I recently discovered this composer.... this is an unsung composer masterpiece!
This is by far my favourite of Emilie Mayer's works that I have heard as of yet.
Just sampled a CPO disc with Mayer's symphonies 1&2. Excellent and full of surprises. Especially in the finale to the second symphony, where it ends on the minor. Complete opposite of what you think where the symphony is going to end. Just delicious. Thanks for posting her 7th. Should be heard more in concert hall.
Thanks for the post. This is actually her 5. Symphonie in F-moll, not the 7th.
how do you know? is this true? now i’m confused lmao
@@Ben-bf8pz Yes it's true, I verified. And if you want a proof you can search this piece on Spotify you'll see ;)
@@matthieumainguy3825 Is Spotify the ultimate source of correct information on items such as forgotten symphonies? I am not claiming anything about the order of Emilie Mayer's symphonic works, but there are plainly at least 6 symphonies by her right here on CZcams, researched and recorded (plus 1 lost?). Could be a similar issue as with Dvorak's symphonies that were given in the canon as Nos. 1-5, until his early ones were deemed acceptable for inclusion. Maybe several sources just do not account for the symphonies discovered / re-created lately?..
Merci pour cette belle musique d'une inconnue / Thanks for this beautiful music from an unknown composer
A very well crafted Symphony and plenty of good ideas .Highly enjoyable too .
never heard of her, but I will discover her work, for sure!
there even is a documentary about her: czcams.com/video/YGrICvbGKUA/video.html
... die vergessene Romantikerin verdiente größere Repertoire-Beachtung (vgl. weitere Werke auf CZcams). Den Berliner Ton-Künstlern Dank für ihren bemerkenswerten Einsatz . .
Encore une belle oeuvre pratiquement inconnue ! Une compositrice très talentueuse .
Des airs superbement mélodieux ! Bravo à elle et aux merveilleux musiciens de cet orchestre !
Beautiful! Thanks for posting!
tHANK YOU FOR DISCOVERY!!!!
Wow! Thank you for sharing this.
What a wonderful discovery - thank you.
I just listened to symphonies by Eduard and Cesar Franck, who came along quite a bit later them Mayer. I hear many similarities and would not be surprised if their symphonies were influenced by this fine symphony.
Es una pura lástima que tanta buena música creada por mujeres no se escuche hoy por hoy. Tengo para mí que se debe a la hegemonía ejercida por el género masculino en todas las ramas del arte y, desde luego, en cada aspecto del diario vivir del ser humano. Dicha hegemonía nos empobrece a todos.
Big development in her individual style from her earlier symphonies
Great discovery. This composer should have more recordings and support from performers. In iTunes this same recording is labeled as Symphony 5 in F minor.
Her Piano Concerto is not as great but its second movement is a gem.
The cd-cover is wrong, this is the seventh symphony. The fifth is lost.
@@KuhlauDilfeng2 The critical edition of this symphony numbers it as her 5th.
@@jacquesdupuis8773 Right, Jacques. I've provided the Worldcat source, publisher and editors for the 5th (in f-moll) in my response to the confusion.
Nice work
Ms. Mayer came into her own with this work. Remember, Dvorak came close to disowning his first 4 or 5 symphonies........... it is a great pity Ms Mayer did not carry on with the symphonic output. Today she is rightly earning her place in the repertoire! 😀
That would be great news! Have you actually heard of any program repertoires containing Emilie Mayer?
@@steveegallo3384 Her Faust Overture is available (free) on IMSLP, so I think it is getting some performances, such as here czcams.com/video/fIxdQfP0wjE/video.html
What do you mean, did not carry on with the symphonic output? She wrote seven symphonies and other orchestral works, too. Comparing her talent (genius might be a better word) and Dvorak's is like comparing the ferocity of a jaguar to a tabby kitten's.
@@bensilverman9105 Mayer had excellent teachers and was a technical master. She also has an undeniable spark of genius. Dvorak was also a genius, but he was also the product of a different era and did not hit his stride in large-scale forms until the mid-1870s.
In any case, I think the point Mike Butcher is making is that Mayer wrote eight symphonies (the Eighth is lost) between 1847 and 1857, then lived another 26 years without writing any more symphonies. And that really is a pity. On the other hand, more than 155 years later, almost nobody plays the symphonies she did write, so maybe we should be glad for what we have instead of griping we don't have more music to ignore...
Thank you very much. It has been a great discovery.
never heard of Mayer, great discovery!
The score is published by Furore Verlag as Symphony no. 5 furore-verlag.de/shop/produkt/229-Emilie-Mayer-Symphonie-Nr.-5-f-Moll/
Thank you :)
bella musica !
I love her! There is always more to be discovered in the Romantik.
Great work.
Listened to this piece in a concert and like it very much but cannot find it in Apple Music!
NO CONOCIA A ESTA ARTISTA, LAMENTABLEMENTE OLVIDADA COMO TANTOS OTROS, GRACIAS POR SUBIR LOS VIDEOS, SEGUIRE ESCUCHANDO SU MARAVILLOSA MUSICA, POR LO MENOS ESTA SINFONIA ME HACE ACORDAR A SCHUMANN, NO SE SI TENDRA ALGUNA INFLUENCIA, PERO ES UNA PENA LA FALTA DE DIVULGACION, Y QUE LOS MUSICO PRINCIPALMENTE NO LA INTERPRETEN
son concerto piano est lui aussi très bien
Em vitrine, a força da criação musical feminina que se empodera na pesquisa de novas descobertas mais do que desejáveis. Grato pela postagem.
Magnificent
Thank you for this, it was well worth listening to. Thee were echoes of Schumann, Mendelssohn and Brahms, a bit on the traditional side, but not without some individuality of her own.
There are no 'echoes of Brahms' in here. She is a generation older than Brahms and he hadn't finished any of his significant mature compositions yet when this symphony was written.
Any stilistic similarities between them stem from shared musical influences, not one influencing the other.
Spectacular symphony written with Mendelssohn on her shoulder. So glad I learned about its' existance.
Ein herrliches Adagio !!
Why haven't I heard this before!! I feel like I'm levitating
Elle naît le 14 mai 1812 à Friedland1.
Fille du pharmacien August Friedrich Mayer (1777-1840) et de Henrietta Carolina Louisa, née Maas (1790-1814), Emilie Mayer joue du piano depuis l'âge de cinq ans.
Elle a tout d'abord étudié dans sa ville natale puis, au début des années 1840, elle suit des cours de composition avec Carl Loewe à Stettin2. À partir de 1847, elle poursuit ses études musicales de contrepoint auprès d'Adolph Bernhard Marx et d'instrumentation auprès de Wilhelm Wieprecht à Berlin. Elle commence à être reconnue comme compositrice et plusieurs de ses œuvres sont jouées à Berlin.
En 1855, elle est à Munich, en 1856 à Vienne où son quatuor à cordes en la majeur et son trio avec piano en ré mineur sont créés.
Emilie Mayer reste célibataire et pendant de longues années, sa maison à Berlin est ouverte à des personnalités de la vie sociale et politique. Elle est inhumée au cimetière de la Trinité à Berlin-Kreuzberg.
Esthétique
Emilie Mayer est d'abord influencée par l'école classique de Vienne, notamment par Mozart, bien que ses dernières œuvres soient plus dans un style romantique3.
Les harmonies de Mayer sont caractérisées par de brusques changements de tonalités et l'usage fréquent d'accords de septième, avec septième diminuées, lui permettant une grande variété de résolutions. La musique d'Emilie Mayer se définit principalement par une tendance à posséder un centre tonal avec une septième de dominante, mais à ne pas résoudre sur la tonique directement. Parfois, la résolution ne se fait pas.
Ses rythmes sont souvent très complexes, avec plusieurs strates interagissant en même temps.
Œuvres
Symphonie no 1 en do mineur (1847)
Symphonie no 2 en mi mineur (1847)
Symphonie no 3 en do majeur (1850)
Concerto pour piano en si bémol majeur (1850)
Symphonie no 4 en si mineur (1851)
powerful and compelling--a hidden treasure--thanks for sharing
encore une compositrice de l'époque romantique qui savait orchestrer de la musique puissante et mâitriser la dramaturgie musicale !
Magnifique, vraiment ! Je suis surpris car je ne la découvre que
maintenant et par hasard (cela figurait dans mes propositions de videos
par CZcams). Mais pourquoi n'est-elle pas aussi connue que Chopin,
Schubert, Beethoven, etc ? C'est incroyable.
Thank you very much for this share. But it's not the 7th one but the 5th symphony ;)
Nice last movement.
I just realized this piece greatly reminds me of some movements of Brahms 1st symphony. Is it my imagination? I am no musician, but I love Brahms and this piece is so close that it makes me wonder. Can any connoisseur shed some light on this little connumdurm? Thank you so much for your help.
they're both in a minor key; both their 1st movements start in a compound time (3 in a beat); probably very similiar orchestral forces were used (perhaps no trombones in this one? haven't got far enough to really tell).
I would say that this has a bit more "dance / waltz-y" feel to it, especially the lyrical second theme in the 1st mvt; whereas the Brahms feels a bit heavier, or a bit more defiant, whichever way you'd want to see it.
Cheers!
Can someone tell me what the instrumentation for this symphony is?
5:42 I love shameless sequences...
Really wonderfull symphony. Comparing her symphonies (at least the 2 that we can hear om youtube) with those of other lesser known German symphonies, I personally won't put her's on the same level as th fine symphonies of Ferdinand Ries and Robert Volkmann. None the less, her symphonies does not deserve complete neglect. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to hear more of her symphonies.
Never even heard of Robert Volkmann before reading your comment, but then tried his first symphony, and what a great work. I'll now try Ries. This ain't so bad either.
Glad you liked Volkman's 1st symphony. His 2nd I if think is just as great.
the two Volkmann Symphony‘s are indeed wonderful but i dont know if i should be happy or sad that they‘re only recorded once!!
This beatifull music reminds me the great Beethoven
Absolutely agree 😊
Great, but I cannot find a CD.
Here it is: www.amazon.com/Sym-No-Hero-Leander-Piano/dp/B0000AIS5V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481388247&sr=8-1&keywords=B0000AIS5V
That's not Symphony 7.
The cd is misprinted but it is the same symphony.
Thanks!
She is the best pupil of Carl Loewe.
What date was this recorded?
Nice! Where is this music published, e.g. sheet music?
Hier gibt es Erläuterungen und Hintergründe zu der Sinfonie: www.werktextblog.de/blog/01_mayer
ZItat: "Manchmal wird die f-Moll-Sinfonie nicht als siebte, sondern als fünfte Sinfonie nummeriert. Das liegt daran, dass es sich um die fünfte gefundene handschriftliche Partitur handelt, auf der Mayer selbst gar keine Nummer vermerkt hat. Nur die ebenfalls erhaltenen und offensichtlich benutzten Stimmen tragen die handschriftliche Bezeichnung "7. Sinfonie""
Reminds me of Felix Mendelssohn.
Si je ne me trompe pas, c'est la symphonie no.5 et non no.7 ?
effectivement :)
Is the title correct?
- Symphony no 7? , but album states Symphony No 5!
The cd is misprinted, the correct number is 7. Her fifth symphony is lost.
@@KuhlauDilfeng2 The score is published by Furore Verlag as Symphony no. 5 furore-verlag.de/shop/produkt/229-Emilie-Mayer-Symphonie-Nr.-5-f-Moll/
Wow this musical piece is so beautiful and complex sounding. It has a lot of passion to it. In all honesty it's one of the greatest classical pieces I've ever heard one of my favs now. It's too bad the misogyny from back then prevented female composers to be as heard and appreciated as they should have been. Granted these days systemic misogyny does not exist in western nations only systemic misandry.
Lol no
6:00 minutes in is third and fourth oage
🎂Emilie Luise Friderica Mayer 05-14-2022
What sublime music! Until recently, the history of western music has been written by men deeply embedded in the prejudice and misogyny of their respective ages. In this music and the music of so many talented women like Fanny Mendlessohn it is clear that there has been a conspiracy to marginalise those who haven't necessarily defined the avant garde. The self perpetuating male egotism of the late Romantic and Modernist eras has stifled those voices not deemed to be cutting edge. (There are off course a few exceptions like Felix Mendlessohn. But why only him and not his sister Fanny, who in many respects is much more adventurous?) What a privilege it is to be in an age where hither-to silent voices may be heard at the click of a few buttons. Long may the restoration of these talented women continue. Looking forward to an age when women rightfully claim half the stage.
Nonsense. The reason that there's so little attention for female composers is that the personal characteristics which would make someone capable of becoming a great composer are much more common among men than among women. There were simply very few female composers of the highest order.
What predicts becoming a top level classical composer? A myriad of various personal traits which are all more prevalent among males than among females, which means that not only are there more males than females with each individual trait, but females combining all these traits are exceptionally rare.
Here's the list:
Outlier high IQ (males count among them more retards but also more geniuses despite having a similar average IQ to females, there's simply greater male variability in intelligence, you can tell this from comparing special needs classes with Mensa membership, both are heavily skewed towards males)
Non-conformism (women are more conformist, this predicts against creative success because they tend to come up with more conventional ideas, whereas in music it's originality that's valued rather than the ability to conform to existing trends)
Higher male aggression (aggression in smart individuals with high impulse control drives ambition and competitiveness, females tend to be more agreeable and agreeableness makes you better at cooperation but worse at competition, composition is a competitive effort and not a cooperative effort, well not then anyways, the vast majority of classical music is composed by a single individual, this only started to change with the rise of rock and roll bands)
High mental resillience (women on average are more neurotic than men, feel negative feelings strongly and are much more prone to depression and anxiety, which both predict against success in extremely competitive industries)
More interest in abstractions than in people (women are on average more oriented on people, men more towards things, which includes abstractions)
Females who tick all the boxes of the above are extremely rare. Especially the last aspect, interest in things vs. people, is what drives exceptionally musically gifted women to pursue other things than musical composition.
Men and women were formed via evolutionary selection to fill in specific niches and men tend to both rise higher and sink lower than women. And while feminist activists harp on for hours and hours about female underrepresentation in fine arts etc. they never complain about female underrepresentation among drug addicts, trash collectors, workplace deaths (90% or higher of deadly workplace accidents involve men) etc.
Because they're hypocritical, misinformed, grievance-driven ideologically brainwashed half-wits.
Check her out in this german documentary: czcams.com/video/YGrICvbGKUA/video.html (in german and english available)
6:40 fourth page
7:34 page 5
Pizzicato 5:44
This composer has a nickname 'female Beethoven'.
Une belle musique dont la transparence et la fluidité me font penser à Mendelssohn.
Wonder full music. Just a correction, this is her Symphony No.5, not number 7. From what I could find out, she composed 6 symphonies.
Mmmm, my disk with Symphonies No. 3 and No. 7 must be pretty rare ;)
I don't know, it sound kind of boring to me.
Keep listening.
Interessante sinfonia,per nulla convenzionale e notevole orchestrazione ,anche se lontana dall'intellettualita' di Schumann.
On préfère encore une oeuvre masculine de série B plutot qu'une oeuvre de femme de série A....comme si la nature avait regardé le sexe avant de dispenser les talents.....il n'y a rien de plus sexiste que le monde l'art. De plus qui décide que quelque chose est bon, beau et digne de passer à la postérité ? et puis, l'humanité est-elle si riche d'individus qui ont su créer quelque chose pour se débarrasser de toutes les créations d'une partie de cette humanité ? je crois bien que non....quand on part à la recherche des noms perdus et des oeuvres oubliées on fait souvent de très belles découvertes...en ce sens, merci CZcams et tous ceux qui déposent un patrimoine (on devrait aussi dire matrimoine) inconnu ou de niche. Ceci est juste une considération générale...
Il ne faut trop y voir de sexisme je crois...ceux qui décident de ce qui est bien sont aussi ..des femmes. Je pense qu'il faut simplement constater que le féminin n'est pas forcément porté à composer de la musique...(plutôt à l’interpréter). Aujourd'hui il est facile de composer avec un Ipad et un logiciel à 2 balles et signer ses œuvres avec un pseudo ...et pourtant encoure aujourd'hui, le nombre de femmes qui composent ou arrangent de la musique est effroyablement faible... à mon grand désespoir.
Stéphane Rocke bonjour Stéphane
Quand on lit l'histoire des femmes (de Georges Duby et Michelle Perrot en 4 ou 5 volumes) et le livre de Liliane Blanc sur les femmes et la création musicale sans oublier les ouvrages surr l'histoire de l'éducation des filles ne serait-ce qu'en France, on comprend parfaitement pourquoi le nombre des femmes est faible dans la musique en particulier et a été faible longtemps partout....en ce qui concerne la musique il ne faut pas oublier que durant par exemple tout le XIX siècle, tous les instruments, à part le piano étaient interdits aux femmes dans les conservatoires, que pendant le magnifique, par ailleurs, XVIII siècle, les cours de composition étaient inabordables pour quelque jeune fille que ce soit en Italie (d'où je vous écris..) fusse t-elle très désireuse de l'apprendre et très douée. Les choses pouvaient changer si vous étiez noble ET fille d'un père illuminé. Mais si quand vous etes jeunes on vous répète sans arret que les femmes ne sont pas portées pour la composition,qu'on en a jamais vu, que c'est un truc d'homme etc... vous intériorisez l'interdit; et si vous passez cet interdit vous faites comme Clara Schumann et d'autres qui ont exprimé qu'elles composaient mais que cela ne devrez pas etre ,(!) parce qu'une femme ne devrait pas composer...elle en avaient ou des sentiments de culpabilité ou d'infériorité...je connais à fond ce problème; j'ai beaucoup lu, études spécifiques, journaux intimes, biographies...à un certain moment les barrières sont tellement hautes que vous décidez que cela n'en vaut pas la peine et qu'on peut faire autre chose...cela n'a pas de sens de dire que le féminin n'est pas porté pour écrire de la musique...les gènes, les dons, les talents sont distribués par la nature sans tenir du sexe, je répète. Ce qui fait la différence c'est la capacité de la société de recueillir ces dons, ces talents de les valoriser quel que soit le sexe de la personne qui possède le talent et d'offrir éducation et liberté personnelle pour voyager et se confronter aux autres, murir..... l'éducation pénalisante, superficielle donnée aux filles pendant très longtemps (à part les aristocrates), les idées toutes faites, les préjugés, pèsent très fort et conditionnent à un niveau subtil, non verbal et portent celui qui est l'objet du préjugé à le confirmer. Un livre très intèressant aussi est: Le silence des filles de Colette Cosnier. Merci pour la possibilité d'échanger ))
Ah Mimi, je vois que vous êtes passionnée et que vous aimez écrire.
Je crois aussi que vous vous trompez car certaines capacités intellectuelles ou sociales sont spécifiques au sexe ce qui rend dans la nature les hommes (mâles) et les femmes (femelles) complémentaires. Il se trouve que le travail d'orchestration et d'arrangement requiert des qualités particulières (intelligence spatio-temporelle) ...plus présentes chez les hommes manifestement. C'est pourquoi, aujourd'hui de nombreuses femmes chantent et composent mais il n'en existe peu (aucune?.) capable d'orchestrer ou d'arranger une chanson (on dit aussi produire en musique) . Ainsi, Björk , Véronique Sanson ou Barbara ont beaucoup composé mais n'ont pas produit leur musique. C'est toujours un homme qui l'a fait pour elles malgré leur forte personnalité.
La musique de film est un monde nouveau mais pourtant exclusivement masculin alors qu'encore une fois , il suffirait aux musiciennes complètement émancipées aujourd'hui de poster leur travail sur youtube avec une belle image pour faire connaître leur travail aux studios ou de créer leur propre studio (c'est ce qu'expliquait très bien Hans Zimmer dans son dernier master class).
Dernier point : en musique, la force créatrice d'une passion (lorsqu'elle est réelle) ne s'encombre pas du "qu'en dira-t-on", du carcan des conventions sociales, des interdictions ou des contraintes familiales Les femmes attendent trop souvent qu'on leur ouvre galamment la porte alors qu'il leur faudrait la défoncer . La victimisation ne leur rend pas service au final.
Stéphane Rocke Ah oui Stéphane ça c'est le point sur lequel je concorde ! :)) les femmes attendent encore trop qu'on leur ouvre galamment la porte au lieu de l'enfoncer ! on les y a puissament habituées et c'est dur à mourir ! :)) non le travail d'orchestration ne requiet aucune qualité de genre; j'en veux pour preuve une seule, la magnifique et trop tot disparue Lili Boulanger (24 ans) qui n'a pu prendre que quelques leçons privées de composition et orchestration chez elle, étant donné en partie sa douloureuse maladie, qui n'a jamais pu entendre l'effet que faisaient ses compositions sinon dans sa tete et qui pourtant nous a laissé quelques Psaumes magnifiques d'orhestration....(et selon moi, un Pie Jesu pour vois et orgue, au seuil de la mort qui est un sommet de la musique religieuse); l'etre haumain est hautement plastique; mais les sociétés ont toujours eu besoin de confiner leurs propres filles...je pense que le meilleur moyen c'est de dire très tot: ça c'est masculin, ça c'est féminin; de le dire par les fables, par les desseins animés, par les publicités, par tout ce qui vous entoure. Après quoi comme la plupart des personnes est conformiste et n'a pas grand talent, ça marche. Et ça met meme des repères. Au revoir et bonne journée