Why This 17-Year Old's Electric Motor Is Important
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- čas přidán 16. 01. 2023
- Exploring Why This 17-Year Old's Electric Motor Is Important. Get Surfshark VPN at surfshark.deals/undecided - Enter promo code UNDECIDED for 83% off and 3 extra months for FREE! Permanent magnets are a critical resource for renewables, because the generators in some wind turbines and motors in electric vehicles rely on them to run. A Floridian high school student has just shown us how to make a better electric motor without rare earth magnets. Another company is using cloud computing to try to improve electric motor performance - also without rare earths. There’s some exciting advances being made when it comes to electric motors, but how much of a difference can they make?
CORRECTIONS:
09:40: Text should read 750 RPM.
I've trimmed a couple of short sections from the video that were creating confusion. I didn't mean to imply that AC motors use magnets, but the wording during some moments made it sound like I was. Magnetless motors are not a new thing, but optimizing their design for high efficiency, high torque, without rare earths opens the door for more use cases.
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CORRECTIONS: I've trimmed a couple of short sections from the video that were creating confusion. I didn't mean to imply that AC motors use magnets, but the wording during some moments made it sound like I was. Magnetless motors are not a new thing, but optimizing their design for high efficiency, high torque, without rare earths opens the door for more use cases.
If you liked this video, check out How Can A Wind Turbine Be Motionless? czcams.com/video/OkRqVBpO2BQ/video.html
👍
Those who challenge the Industrial Complex, this young man needs to be careful were he goes and what he eats.
Matt - this is quite a bad video from a technical accuracy perspective. Clearly the subtitles relating to the differences of electrc motors is not within your field of expertise. This really shows as you show one type of motor and refer to it by tge wrong name and attribute the need for permanent magnetics to the wrong types of motors.
This 17 year old research into different motor designs is impressive considering his age, however not that much different to what hundreds of students 5 years older than him are doing at several universities around the world.
The claims from the company Turntide are also not worth calling out. Many of the latest air-conditioning systems available are using inverter drives for their inductance motor drives and these inverter drive AC units achieve similar savings compared to conventional systems.
Why this and not Koenigsegg's Quark motor? Which is claimed as industry-leading torque-power-weight ratio and combines both radial- and axial-flux constructions to offer a good balance between power and torque.
@@CNormanHocker Indeed. He should open source it and be less greedy about wanting a patent. Too many great inventions never get to market cause the creators were just too greedy with patents.
The issue of using rare earth elements for magnets is very polarizing.
I feel like this is a pun
Ha!
they have the tendency to attract and reject, every other time :)
😆
Bravo! I should have said that in the video.
Hello Matt. The German company Mahle presented a newly developed magnetless electric motor in May 2021. With an efficiency of over 95%. But I can only express my respect for the young man for his baby, there is so much heart and soul in it.
👍 Another great example. Thanks for sharing.
War Mett Absicht?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mett
Oder wurde "H*a*llo M*a*tt" zu "H*e*llo M*e*tt"?
Or maybe something completely different?
@@irgendwieanders2121 Danke für den Hinweis :-) bei Namen bin ich eigentlich immer korrekt weil mein Nachname auch immer falsch geschrieben wird, und das echt nervt :-D
@@Wesenhafter Gern geschehen & kenn ich 🙂
Wobei; In dem Fall: Gailer Fehler, ich mag Mett 🤤
What? Great. That Is great. 90% eficeny for transmition of power.
A few corrections (electrical engineer here):
An induction motor does not "switch" the stator polarity. Because it's being fed with AC, it's built so that a rotating magnetic field is generated. The rotor is just a bunch of short-circuited coils. The rotating magnetic field induces a voltage in the rotor, creating another magnetic field that wants to align itself with the stator's rotating field. Suppose the two ever align (in case the rotor is spinning at the same speed as the rotating field). In that case, the rotating field will appear stationary to the rotor (like two cars going down a freeway at the same speed, they're moving in relation to the ground, but not in relation to themselves). The important part is that the stator's field can only spin as fast as the rotor's field. The difference between the speeds is called the slip ratio and is always larger than one for induction motors.
A synchronous motor works oppositely: the rotor spins as fast as the stator's field. Because they're rotating at the same speed, there's no induced voltage, so the rotor needs either a permanent magnet or an electromagnet to generate its magnetic field. The slip ratio for a synchronous motor is always one.
A) Induction (asynchronous) motors: no magnets on the rotor.
B) Synchronous motors: rotor needs magnets.
In both cases, there's no "switching" like in DC motors.
The saliency ratio is the ratio between the magnetic reluctances when the rotor poles are aligned with the stator poles and when it's aligned with the gaps. This determines the torque curve.
Pretty good explanation of how SynRMs work: czcams.com/video/vvw6k4ppUZU/video.html&ab_channel=Lesics
Thanks for your input! And important to note that Galileo Ferraris and Nikola Tesla independently invented the AC induction motor in 1885 and 1887 respectively, including the variable reluctance type. The challenge today is to refine these well-known and much used principles and designs for high efficiency and suitable power response.
Fascinating that you fell for this one too. Magnet free motors existed from the beginning. I have learned about them at standard course at the university 40 years ago. How can you even imagine that a 17 years old overtakes thousands of engineers working for 100 years? How does it even sounds probable to you? It is a clear PR stunt.
Most industrial AC motors, both single-phase and 3-phase, do not use permanent magnets, they use an induced magnetic field in the rotor (the rotating part) from the stator (non-rotating part) to induce rotation. This principle can also be used in generators, though they typically require at least some residual magnetism to be able to start the magnetic interaction.
Automotive alternators use no permanent magnets, though they do use a pair of rings (rather than a segmented commutator) with brushes to make contact to the rotor.
It is used, however in a little different way. For induction motor to work as generator you need to run the rotor faster, than the field in stator is rotating. In the grid you can do it just by connecting the stator to grid and then providing excitation not with DC (like in synchronous generator) but with AC from VFD inverter. If you match angular velocity of field generated by rotor to be around 115% of synchronous field - you have grid-ready generator. Using VFD as excitation is cheaper, than using it to convert all the electricity from large wind turbine to grid frequency (instead of i.e. 15MW converter you need 3MW one). Of course it does not make sense for hydro or thermal power plants, where you can (and have to) adjust mechanical power to keep turbine at speed
Not very good for most EVs though as they require more electricity to run than a permanent magnet motor since electricity is required to create mechanical energy and the electric field, though Teslas do actually use AC motors in their cars so they only require REEs for their battery packs.
@@brylozketrzyn Thank you for the info, we didn’t discuss such things in the introductory course at the university I attended when I was young, so I am very grateful when I can learn new things.
I was going to say this too. You said it better.
@@krashd Tesla used induction motors in the front drive system of their early Model S cars. So it can be used in cars after all!
My father was with a French design team in the late 1960s. They used variable reluctance in a very efficient air compressor which used a single piston (no crank) powered by variable reluctance. No permanent magnets, and no commutator brushes. Dead simple! One version of it emerged as a Black and Decker air compressor. There was also made a low vibration flat twin piston version which was a bit like a free piston engine.
You will find such 'motors' (more like Linear pumps) in the Engel (camping) fridge / freezers.
Seems this tech never took off even though it existed long before this 17-year old made a 'concept' motor. Must have some major flaws if big companies haven't pursued it further. Elon Musk would have have hired the kid by now if it had any potential.
@@Dark-qx8rkTiming is everything. In my father's case the late 60's oil shock/crisis killed off the appetite for investing in new businesses. By the time the 70's were through (more oil crises) the economic life of the patents had faded away, the main guy in France had died and everyone was working on new projects.
@@Dark-qx8rk That's if he knew the kid existed.
Woah, no crank!?!
Hello, sorry if this is the 200th squirrel cage comment. A large, industrial, three phase motor is named a squirrel cage because of the rotor. It is often high-silicon steel slats filled in with cast aluminum for structure. When you look at the rotor on a workbench, it resembles a hamster wheel or cage fan, ergo squirrel cage. Easy way for us cavemen types to differentiate between motors. Great videos, thank you
Matt, when I was taught about induction motors the diagram we were shown for the rotor was two rings at either end axially connected by bars spaced around the rotor. These bars were the current carrying conductors in which the electromotive force would be generated. The rings were what completed the circuit for the necessary current to flow. To me it looks more like an elongated hamster wheel. But I guess squirrel cage sounded better.
A power supply either DC or from kinetic like a wind turbine excites the stator and thats what produces the field the conductors well...conduct the current to the rotors.
You guys think piezo motors will ever get efficient enough to compete with magnetic motor?
I'd like to point out two major corrections:
1 AC induction motors use NO permanent magnets
The magnetic field is "induced" in the conductive squirrel cage not generated by permanent magnets at all. (FYI it's called a squirrel cage because the rotors typically made of a cylindrical arrangement of copper or aluminum bars similar to a hamster wheel (why it's called a squirrel cage not a hamster wheel I'm not sure))
2 synchronous reluctance motors are already a excellent alternative to induction motors in fact Tesla already uses a hybrid synchronous reluctance/permanent magnet motor in its cars (specifically because of its high torque high efficiency and reducing the need for expensive magnets)(reluctance motors are only now getting good because of The reduced cost of switching electronics required whereas induction motors require no extra controller to work on AC power, but the premise has been around for a long time and is relatively well developed))
edit: Thanks for replying and updating accordingly! I completely agree reluctance motors are awesome and should be used more. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that the vast majority of motors (induction motors) have no permanent magnets (and no rare earths)(and efficiencies usually >80%) and that the primary benefit of reluctance motors is (marginally) increased efficiency with little if any torque/performance reduction (rarely is startup torque the primary design factor anyway) but a larger upfront cost (that should trend down as adaption increases)
Exactly, I write similarly.
One point 1: Yep. I think we may have unintentionally blurred the lines in how we talked about the motors in the final video edit. On point 2: yes again, but that's actually the point of the video. Tesla uses magnets in their design to hit the energy and performance they're looking for. This is about finding another path to achieve high efficiency, high torque, but without rare earths.
I've trimmed out the problematic sections from the video where it was creating confusion around AC motors. Appreciate the feedback.
@@UndecidedMF good on you, so quick after upload too I’ll sub to that
@@UndecidedMF That might have introduced some AV issues. I'm not seeing the video and audio match up throughout the whole video right now.
Great episode.
Very good
Thanks!
Nice
👍
Good
I've subscribed to your channel not only for the insight into some really wildly optimistic and totally doable ways to help save us from ourselves, but for the ongoing focus on people and companies earnestly working and caring about continuing to see optimistic futures. There are SO many people seeing where we can go, and we need to believe these optimistic possibilities as much as the dystopic. We're not done yet! Thank you SO MUCH for this channel and the research you do. I'm a new fan. 🙏
Most of his content is just him repeating marketing jargon and no real science
One thing I remember learning very early in automation is how brushed dc motors suck at both power output and efficiency, I would not regard 70% efficiency and damage over time as a good thing. I also remember reading a paper like a year ago about a 96-97% efficient brushless dc motor, don't remember all the details tho...
Bldc is for less than 600 watt power input.
Till 1000 watt we prefer single phase induction motors.
Above 1000 watt we prefer 3 phase induction motor.
A synchronous motor would be more efficient but at much higher capex not easily remediated by its low opex though.
We can already use AC motors in cars today which eliminates rare earth metals today. The efficiency loss of using a VFD isn't really far off from high performance DC motor efficiency due to the control circuitry.
Additionally, without seeing much in the way of how he designed the motor it's hard to say he did anything new, people tend to not fully understand what a new patent requires when it comes to something as common as electric motors.
The thing with AC motors is they are good for a very narrow RPM range in comparison to DC motors which have a much smoother power delivery throughout their RPM range. AC motors are great for things that don't need to change RPMs much but can be a bit lacking for using in vehicles that must go and different speeds.
@@roguetorino Tesla and some other EV manufacturers already use AC induction motors. They can have great performance over huge RPM ranges with modern VFD controllers.
@@roguetorino couldn't that be overcome with a gear box?
@@danielmethner6847 How would you implement a mechanical gearbox on an AC motor unless you somehow change the number of poles to modify the torque and even so what would be the reason given that the control of the rotating speed would be far less accurate than what you already have using variators
@@roguetorino Exactly, in Ev applications the required load rage is large. Peak efficiency of induction motors is usually matched for highway driving, but low load city driving they drop to 60% eff. or even lower.
Almost 40 years ago, I spent a year on a science project to find a way to make a hydrogen engine work, while I cracked it, I also cracked the block of the engine). I continued my hobby of alternative fuels to this day. My only regret after all these years is that I didn't pursue this as a career. I hope that Robert is supported to continue his passion. I also hope he nails the ISEF and suggest we go out of our way to support our future through people like Robert.
Look up the Omega 1 engine. It runs on hydrogen gas and has a fast RPM. I think they have a slight tolerance challenge though.
3x+1=
Hydrogen comes from electricity or gas processes with extremely low overall efficiency.
It's a non-starter!
@@_a.z there have been numerous new techniques found but it is hard to tell which ones are production ready.
@@_a.z I am also not sure hoe much the efficiency really matters because sometimes our energy production capability exceeds our energy use and storage capacity. I believe that may be why not all the windmills are spinning around me.
During the summer and fall of 2022 I installed 30 turntide smart motors. The installation is relatively simple. The motors are heavier than those they replace the programming is straight forward the controllers are nice the app interface is easy to navigate for a technician and the tech support is direct and effective at resolving any nonworking components. The motors are significantly louder this is really the only drawback I noticed. Though there is some inconsistency in the noise levels. Not sure if this is manufacturing or installation. Clients that requested the motors were pleased.
Cool tech!
Ive installed some of those turntide motors, the noise that they produce is insane. Causing the vibrations to echo through an entire building. Luckily there is special mounting to reduce the awful noise they make, would have been nice if they came standard with the motors though.
Reluctance motors and induction motors have already been optimized for lots of use cases. It’s hard to see that more tinkering will vastly change the torque per volume, but I admire the kid for taking on this work and wish him all the best. Eliminating permanent magnets from automotive motors is a worthy goal.
Perhaps, perhaps not question is: Who will try?
I will
That’s what everyone thought before rare Earth magnets were discovered…
@@michaelwhitley2081 it still needs to be cost effective or you have achieved mostly nothing.
@@luckyjay778 way to bring nothing to the conversation. allow me to join you
In 1889, Mikhail Dolivo-Dobrovolsky invented the wound rotor induction motor. Which looked like a squirrel cage and the name stuck. Tesla invented it pretty close to the same time independently and gets most of the credit because he already had the patents, but most physicists agree that Dobrovolsky got in the first punch.
Great minds think alike.
So, just to be clear, it's *not* because it replaced a squirrel running inside a hamster wheel to make things go "Vroom"?
Got it.
You are not well informed. I went through all 300 Tesla patents, because I designed some motors myself. The cage of today's engines is not there, that is the work of Dobrovolski.
It is not important what the majority thinks, but what the majority will actually feel and understand.
Even the first Tesla motor in the museum in Belgrade is not induction, but synchronous. He started doing induction with a wound rotor in about half of the content.
Even reluctantly.
So many great minds but probably more so about the environment of that time, the singularity happened in a way
Asynchronous mouth movement to mouth sound. Now THAT's a technology Mr. Ferrell could use in this video's creation.
Very interesting video and thanks for making informative stuff like this, hopefully getting more people to work together to tackle the supply chain issues with green energy. Unfortunately, likely due to editing, the closed captions start going way off making them much confusing than helpful.
New to this channel so I'm not sure if you have covered it, but I've heard that we have recently made progress with sodium based solid state batteries. That would also help with the Li-ion issue.
Hi Matt, thanks for another great video. What I‘m missing, though are two things: 1) I think while discussing electric motors needing permanent magnets, it is really important to point out that several brands already use motors without permanent magnets. E.g. Tesla‘s initial drive trains all used asynchronous AC motors without any magnets and asynchronous motors are still widely used in EVs. So just inventing an EV motor without magnets is obviously NOT the real highlight of this young inventor. Which leads me to 2) It would be great to explain the differences and especially the pros and cons of the various electric motors. I think (but don‘t know even after watching your video) that the highlight of the invention is actually that it is a magnet-less synchronous motor. And that we‘d need to point out why you‘d prefer to have that type of motor vs. an asynchronous motor. Also: in an all wheel drive car you normally now have two different motors, one of which regularly is a magnet-less asynchronous motor so that you can simply cut power to the motor if only power is only needed on the other axle.
Bottom line: a video with an overview of the many synchronous, asynchronous, reluctance, non-reluctance etc. motor-types for an EV and why you‘d want one for a specific purpose in an EV would be great.
The reason we don't use motors without neodymium magnets is because they're not powerful enough we already have motors without magnets they're not suitable for the application this whole video is flawed just like the whole green industry as a whole nothing but lies and miss interpretations of the data
It does seem like Matt does not know much about electric motors... Maybe he should invite some engineer like Electroboom...
It appears the actual work he has been working on is to do with Saliency in the motor. . . Now being into technical details I should know about Saliency but I hate to admit, I don't. . . I believe is is to do with the problem of low torque in a motor when running slower than it is designed to run. . . . Yes, we are getting up into the high 90% efficiencies with large motors, but presumably that is when running high load and at their designed speed. . . I suspect that Saliency is about improving slow speed performance.. . The mention of heat melting plastic concerns me, because we want motors to run cool for good efficiency.. . Any Heat is lost energy. . . . These days, we use VFD to get good low speed performance out of motors designed for high speed.. . . This is a definition, but actually means nothing : " Saliency is a measure of the reluctance difference between the rotor and the stator around the circumference of the rotor. ". . This means more : " What is the effect of Saliency in synchronous machine?
Saliency contributes reluctance torque in machines and appears when motor construction causes the stator winding inductance to vary as a function of position. In simpler term, saliency occurs due to non-uniform airgap. "
Lets play spot the german, i found one here. When talking about "asynchronous motors" you are probably talking about what is really called induction motors in english. Similar to how in german we can say "Asynchron-" or "Induktionsmotor" meaning the same motor tech.
@@ImTheCrepe Close. I‘m not from Germany but from Austria. And yes: here we also call induction motors asynchronous motors.
FYI: Tesla uses a hybrid motor type now called a PMSRM (Permanent-Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor). Their goal was efficiency, and they also reduced the use of rare-earth magnets in the process. Using a lot of "secret sauce" software in the drive inverter they were able to take the benefits of each technology and combine them into the most efficient EV motor on the market. In some cars, such as the Model 3 and Y, they still use a cheaper (no rare earths) induction motor in the front for AWD, while the PMSRM is in the rear and is where most of the efficiency gains come from. I also have a CZcams channel where I explain a lot of Tesla's technology.
Was looking for a comment like this, thanks for the nice explanation. Maybe there's more to this moror and he's just oversimplifying it? But Tesla has definitely done some magic
Yeah but wouldnt trust Elon and Tesla there must be some catch
@@Ryanrulesok Luckily Tesla has attracted great engineers, and they do good work DESPITE Elon. Tesla runs better when Elon is off screwing around with Twitter and SpaceX. I wish he'd step down.
That's synchronous reluctance and they are very efficient but don't have as much torque so I'm not sure what he is talking about in this video
Kewl man now make it more efficient
There is a company (Niron magnetics) in one of the northern US states that is working on Iron nitride magnets, they are as strong rare earth magnets, and only made of iron and nitrogen. They are also more thermally resistant (higher curie temp) than even SmCo magnets, which are themselves the most thermally resistant of the REEs. You should definitely do a video on them if you haven't already.
synchronous motors has the same effect on the power grid as capacitors . if you have a factory with a lot of motors you can use sync motors as fans to bring the phase shift in line
I'd love to see a more comprehensive series about different types of electrical motors, how they work, and what future improvements we can expect to see. Before this video I really only know about traditional AC motors, and my main takeaway was that there are other kinds as well. But the video did not do these different alternatives justice. I think a better overview of all kinds of motors, theirs pros and cons, and current research into each one of them would make for a great mini-series of videos.
There's so much focus on batteries these days, it's nice to see some coverage on efficient motor design.
because batteries are our main focus. we are good enough with motor design, but we have nothing to store it with.
@@yoursleepparalysisdemon1828 Interesting name there.....Used to have the dream/nightmare since I was in the crib. Never knew whether it's source was internal or external. Once when experiencing a seeming "attack" I focused on "it" and laughed from the depths my soul at it and that is the last time I ever encounterd it. Whatever it was/wasn't doesn't seem to appreciate humor or ridicule.
Thanks to Australian Aboriginal knowledge of the dream world on that one.👍
@@dananorth895 weirdest story ive seen stem from my username.
The focus is rightly on batteries because there is far more room for improvement. The best batteries today only offer perhaps 50% of theoretical energy density. Electric motors however are already highly optimized and only offer very small incremental performance improvement. This kid did not actually invent anything at all amazing, he just managed to improve on a cheaply made motor, rather than a well-made one.
Matt, I think your videos are excellent and easy for me to understand, considering that I am not an engineer. Very entertaining and great work toward bettering our environment and planet. Thank you!
Thanks for this channel, they make a difference by spreading the word on this sustainable technologies. Unfortunately, innovation takes years to implement due to the amount of regulations. Keep it going please
I’m highly skeptical about a motor dependent on the cloud.
I expect this has more to trying to create a motor as a service.
All asynchronous induction motors I'm aware of do not have any permanent magnet in them. Also the vast majority of industrial DC motors use electromagnet instead od permanent magnets.
Also AC motors are very easy to make and they are quite efficient at the specified operating conditions. Only motors that handle large power and uses permanent magnets are BLDC motors. They are suited for direct drive and operating efficiency is less important.
The great advantage of using permanent magnet motors in an EV is that they can be switched to become a generator when torque is applied to the motor via the wheels & transmission when the vehicle is slowing down or coasting downhill to partially recharge the battery. Induction motors can't do that. And the idea of using the cloud & remote servers to control your motors is about the most insane thing ever. If so-called highly secure defence servers can be hacked .......
In the past focus was on industrial profit viability so alot of aspects in engineering were overlooked to pushforward and create industries and markets .Now those markets exist so there's so much room to explore the inbetween spaces that were once overlooked- going back to older ideas but applying newer materials and ideas based on micro efficiency = EXCITING TIMES!!
Matt - you need to do a video on the Halbach Array for magnets. The Tesla Model 3 motor uses this - and it focuses most of the magnetic field on one side of the array; making it *much* stronger.
Correction - Nikola Tesla's invention, the induction AC motor does NOT use any permanent magnets. It uses coils of wire on the armature rotor that generate electric current flow from the stator's magnetic fields - which create magnetic fields of their own - which then cause the rotor to spin. It certainly seems like magic, though!
The Hallbach array may sometimes have structural advantages, but such a motor is unnecessarily expensive and does not provide special advantages. "stronger field" is not a valid argument. There are more factors.
@@srotovnikabc6919 I wonder why you think this - focusing the magnetic field in the direction of the coils makes the motor higher torque and requires less magnet material. And the way these are placed in the rotor greatly reduces the cogging of the motor at higher RPMs.
@@NeilBlanchard In general, it is useful when the torque does not pulsate. And this is mostly achieved by sinusoidal distribution of the magnetic field along the rotation (tangentially). Hallbach can also be designed for sine. But it is unnecessarily expensive, because a lot of the mass of the magnet is consumed along the line of force. In general, with respect to the usual slats, the induction will be in the range of approx. 0.6-1T. And for that, with today's neodymium magnets, a height of approx. 5 mm is sufficient, certainly less than 10 mm in the direction of the line of force. The area perpendicular to the field line must be preserved with respect to the EMF. I designed electric motors for a while.
Dare you to ask Sandy Munro on the matter.
@@echoeversky If I ever get the chance to, I would be very interested to hear what he would say on this.
I learned quite a bit about how motors work through this video; thanks! BTW, it's not "impacts", but _effects._ And the symbol for tonnes is t, not "T" (which is the symbol for teslas, a unit of magnetic flux density), so it should be Gt, not "GT" (gigateslas).
REEs or as they are sometimes called REMs (rare earth minerals/metals) are apparently found in some sources of coal and so should be even more concentrated in coal ash. We have burnt huge quantities of coal so there may be a huge quantity of coal ash just waiting to be sent to a refinery.
Hats off to this young man! I'm just glad to see young people's dreams come alive and persevere.
Matt, thanks for the education! One of those subjects / issues where … “I had no idea”… and now I know. Kudos to the innovators!
This is super exciting! I had no idea that there were alternatives to using rare earth metals in motors for clean energy and especially for Electric Vehicles, so the potential for advancements in these technologies is awesome. Plus, I love how you highlighted the work of the 17-year-old! So much great potential for budding engineers!
The patents bother me. The world wont benefit much until the patents expire.
@@stephenbraithwaite311 I agree. I just hope he isn't left destitute trying to solve a huge problem only for a global company to make billions of his efforts.
Gearboxes are ALWAYS needed wherever you need to step up or step down speeds and convert speed and torque between each other...
if you prioritize speed, you lose torque
if you prioritize torque, you lose speed
if you add torque or speed, to the input, that merely increases the total torque or speed you get at the end, it doesnt eliminate the need for the change, or its existence
When I went to college in the 1960s, although I was more interested in communications than in motors, I did take a couple of intro classes in motors and generators. There were no rare earth permanent magnets in wide enough use to affect product designs at the time (unless they were classified!), and the most powerful permanent magnets were Alnico, a trademark for an alloy of (obviously) aluminum, nickel, and cobalt. Therefore, permanent magnet motors were only used in toys and miniature electronics, while “business” size motors used the same power supply for the stator field and rotor (at least in DC or universal motors). When used as a generator, the residual magnetic field (hysteresis) in the “soft” iron cores of the stator windings served to generate the current to power the stator when first started (of course, a motor can be a generator when turned by an external force). AC only motors were generally used for clocks and were designed to synchronize their rotation with the power supply frequency. I don’t remember much more about the motor-generator field since I haven’t used that knowledge in the meantime, but it is fascinating that so many advances have been made in the last half century!
I didn't know they had classes for electric motors, that's really cool! :)
@@Eduardo_Espinoza Actually the courses were more generally “rotating machines,” with the adjective “electrical” understood because the courses were in the Electrical Engineering department, so no turbines or internal combustion or steam engines. But the generators connected to them were covered.
I had a similar introductory course at 2005 at the Electrical and Computer Engineering school I attended back then where we discussed the different types of electric motors and generators. But like you it wasn’t my interest then and I pursued the computer part inside the school although I never got to finish it and work on the field.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I guess it makes sense that PM motors hadn’t been explored much at that time given that neodymium magnets were not availability yet (at least widely). I remember seeing some magnets used in classroom demonstrations (probably from the 70s at earliest) that were massive but they couldn’t hold a candle to the force from a cheap rare earth magnet of today.
It’s fun to imagine taking a “rotating machines” course at a university, that’s the kind of thing that would probably have motivated me to go to a University after high school! Haha
Nice video on electric motors. It is good that you highlight new future technologies and possible problems with current tech. However, there are a few problems with the statements within the video. First, a DC motor does not move by aligning magnetic fields but by Lorentz force action (see: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_motor).
Second: An AC motor generates motion by generating a fluctuating magnetic field in the stator, which than affects the rotor . However, there are several AC motor designs. The asynchronous induction motor which uses a squirrel cage (not shown in this video), and several types of synchronous motors i.e. wound-rotor synchronous motor, the synchronous reluctance motor (SyRM), and the permanent magnet synchronous motor. There are others but these are the most important in relation to your video. Only the permanent magnet synchronous motor uses rare earth metals (and only if the magnets are made from these elements), the others use either a ferromagnetic core (reluctance motors), a squirrel cage, or an electro-magnet (coil). The video that you showed was of a wound-rotor synchronous motor with coils on the rotor. These coils require DC current to function as electro-magnets (excitation current) which can be delivered in several ways (i.e. brushed vs brushless en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitation_(magnetic)) and operate similar to permanent magnet rotors. An induction motor does not operate like this, it moves due to Lorentz force action on the squirrel cage bars after induction by the fluctuating magnetic field in the stator. A good overview of several electric motor designs can be found here en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor.
Third: SyRM already exist and are used extensively (e.g. Tesla 3). The switched reluctance motor (SRM) does not work like an induction motor, it works similar to a brushless DC-motor and can be used as a stepper motor (often in conjunction with magnets) (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor.
Now I know I'm knit picking a bit here, but your video implies that rare earth metals are in every motor except reluctance motors which isn't the case. Also, reluctance motors are not the answer to every problem. Yes they work well for high speed applications (i.e. SyRM) but have very low torque at low speed. Of course it is great that this kid made a new reluctance motor design with improved performance but it is a little bit weird to show that as if he is solving for a problem that cannot be solved otherwise. The US department of energy is already studying alternatives for rare earth metals in their REACT project .
(arpa-e.energy.gov/technologies/programs/react#:~:text=The%20projects%20that%20comprise%20ARPA,EV)%20motors%20and%20wind%20generators.).
It may be a good idea to do a video on electric motors in general and how they work and project some of the problems with their designs, performance, and materials used, and possible future solutions. Again it was a good effort but a bit incorrect, better luck next time.
If this motor is much cheaper, use 2 and a differential gear to get a variable ratio. This will pay off in reduced amperage required to achieve high torque, so smaller cables and controllers can be used on larger vehicles.
Its a balancing act, but it might work. Need to see the numbers when he can build some higher performing prototypes.
Do you even understand 'power'? No amount of differential massaging will reduce the power required.
@@VEC7ORlt I usually like some of the content here, but feel like we've found the end of CZcams again on this one- propaganda overload and an audience who struggles with discernment. At least they aren't saying this kid invented a free energy machine...oh wait, I think I saw another video where they say he's claiming he has...
@@Rick-the-Swift problem here is that op only cares about engagement and will babble whatever.
You should check out the Muller motor (not saying you need to do a video). The stators are made of black river sand and epoxy (almost no hysteresis) and the geometry of the magnets to coils is such that it cancels out drag between the stator magnets and coils.
One part of the "Smart Motor" I have an issue with is the cloud computing optimization. Having a manufacturing process go off line because a server fell over or worse yet run out of control because someone hacked and MMI is just not acceptable.
true, especially when optimization could be done with something far less powerful. If theres no need to synchronize ALL motors over a large amount of space, then there shouldnt be any need to sync them all up to a centralized system.
Motor as a service seems great. Just a small monthly fee to have optimal performance, or none at all.
And with the planned obsolescence package you will get a notification if you need to buy a new one, because after a few years nobody is going to write updates for a old smart device.
@@LvGnt Exactly, Not surprising amazon is backing a motor that requires cloud services..
i don't know the numbers so it might be negligible but collecting data for the cloud at the scale of every electric motor in the world would use a massive amounts of power and likely undercut efficiency gains. the cloud isn't a free natural data storage area that uses no energy
@@williamdana6661 Not yet. It will become close to free when we can run datacenters in space.
There may well be domains where these new motor configurations excel, but I am highly skeptical that they will scale to high torque and high RPM while maintaining any efficiency advantage, or having other significant tradeoffs (like the noisiness of SRMs). I'd love to be wrong though.
I absolutely love this technology. I was led to this video from an article about the same technology being researched and produced by another company and its definitely the wave of the future. The perfect solution for the old school way of thinking, and it cannot get here fast enough. Great video with your usual concise explanation. 😊
I've looked into buying a variety of raw elements/metals out of personal interest and was shocked to see such small quantities of certain metals cost so much
If you've ever tried to dig up and process some of those elements and you'd understand why they aren't cheap.
One easy solution....drive your 70's muscle car or 2000ish Volvo with a large smile on your face and enjoy (that's for people who can't afford an EV). Now, that aside, that is a very cool story and awesome that a 17 year old came up with it = love it! I'm going to show this to my 17 year old 😁 I've been involved with big oil for over 25 years and we've been moving to green fuels for many years so anything and everything is exciting and fun. Great video Matt!
Well done to that 17 year old the world will look a lot more promising with a few more great minds like him. I hope is motor and future ideas do well for him.
So according to the video, there is no actual information on how his motor works and it kept secret. This video reminds me of that time the indian kid put the guts of his alarm clock inside a pencil box and everyone was so 'impressed' he got to go to the white house to meet the president.
@@DeimosSaturn The fact that he is from Florida isn't exactly a confidence builder either.
There's a chance he may have created something amazing but there is also a chance it's just a perpetual motion machine made up of pinwheels and ball bearings.
@@DeimosSaturn what? When did this happen? Can you give me a name or how I can find more about this? I mean the alarm one.
Look at the credits for the simulation graphics: KEB Automation.
@@sheshasaibabagujjari3481 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident, turned out the clock was commercial alarm clock innards slapped into a briefcase. Breakdown of the setup at czcams.com/video/CEmSwJTqpgY/video.html
I work as a commercial electrician. Knowing what I do about the businesses that use large motors, I find it INCREDIBLY unlikely there will be large scale adoption of smart motors anytime soon. Most of the motors I work on have costs in the hundreds of thousands for any time down, and local analytics are already working hard to keep the motors running efficiently. Local severs are considerably less susceptible to outages and the required maintenance that servers deal with. Any electronics that are integrated with the motor itself would need to be up to current robust standards that we have to deal with daily.
If I've learned anything over the years, it's that a story taking about a teen finding some solution to an issue is likely "fake". Something the field knows isn't worthwhile, has already discovered, etc
Yes, there’s a lot of mumbo jumbo about magnet-less and reluctance enhancing materials, one already exists and the other is a secret not subjected to reviews.
There seems to be a breakthrough every week that promises to be world changing, and frizzled out just as quick.
@@madsam0320 This world is not run by engineers and scientists, but by business-people who are far more interested in profit than in efficiency, helping the environment, and/or bettering social conditions. It's the same old, same old JP Morgan vs Tesla issue and dynamic.
Things *fizzle* out if they either 1. reduce overall profit long term or 2. it costs too much to switch to upfront. Its certainly not always because the tech itself is bad or doesn't have potential.
Have you heard of an ad hominem?
Newton invented calculus when he was 24. Age may not be the only factor to genius.
Also most of the time there is at least overzealous parent behind such kid.
Good job, moving in the right direction! Capacitor and battery technology also needs improvement in their rare element composition. Young man is on the right path!
Agreed , more efficient solar cells, in road stator charging use the permanents give to govt to distribute rare earths into ev charging strips.
I really appreciate it when people call them Neodymium Iron Boron magnets. As a kid I'd only seen NdFeB when I'd try finding them and I was out of highschool before I heard Rare Earth Magnets. There's something lost when the formula is taken away from them, and it's always somewhat depressing still when I hear them called Rare Earth Magnets
The term "Rare Earth" is a historical term which is bandied about as if the word "rare" is significant. It's not, and some of them are anything but rare!
But it can be quite expensive to separate and isolate them, as Matt says.
Great news on young high school student’s new No magnet electric motor. Cheers
Not all Rare Earth magnets are Neodymium Iron Boron, there's another type which is Samarium Cobalt.
I think if the design unalter then by the name alternator mean it alternating between generation and motorized so all it need is battery and capacitor enough for fuel less motor but how do we ensure it correctly unless open inspection
It amazes me that electric motor ideas are STILL not exhausted! Good for Robert Sansone!! (couldn't find his name spelled out anywhere in this video !!) - I hope he really profits from his idea and that it finds its way into modern tech quickly!
I wanted to say something but found myself writing a novel about inconsistencies, terminology and stuff in this video when it comes to particularly the motor that was off. But instead, I decided to say good job on attempting to describe it. When it comes to describing technology sometimes it's difficult to get everything exactly right when it's not your field of expertise. So good job at talking about some of the things we need to think about when making systems and getting some of the key parts right. If you find yourself making another video In this particular industry, feel free on reaching out as a second pair of eyes. I startup these kinds of motors and other variations of them and might have some weird insights on some of them. And only because you brought up wind turbines, I've also helped design a couple of them, and no they don’t all use magnets.
Good point regarding the wind turbines, I am assuming that are referring to double fed induction generator (Vestas?).
It is impressive that the kid developed a motor, but I doubt that is something special, the motors on the market already achieved amazing power density levels while having very good efficiency which is critical for EV industry. There are some other designs that don't require magnets (e.g. AC synchronous with rotating rectifier) but they have lower power density than the current generation of motors. I think that AC induction motor is a good candidate as an alternative for the current generation of motors, helped by a good vector control system (to control it and improve the not so great torque-speed characteristic of induction motor) and a magnetic core molded from a "special" material (similar to ferrite) it can achieve pretty good performances. If they improve the rotor manufacturing process as to use copper bars instead of aluminum and avoid broken bar faults caused by start-stop situations they will have a reliable, efficient and cost effective option.
@@luciancucli5319 I'm surprised someone is familiar with double fed induction generation. As you might know this is a fairly common method today. And it is kind of funny because it's all based on an old slip ring induction motor and people think it is new technology. Just like these synchronous reluctance motors, double fed induction generation has just as much to do with the controller as it does the motor if not more.
Hehe me too. I left my complaining comment. Like you I found a lot of close but no cigar moments. I love the Switched Reluctance Motor. But this article did nothing to increase the knowledge of them.
I do agree with you on the point of young engineers today. They're great and I know they are going to solve it. Actually I'd love to have a tour of this guy's lab. But it ain't happening. Not here. Glum face emoji.
@@parameciumbrains exactly... The switched reluctance motor is nothing without the switcher. Easier said than done.
One annoying thing I recall while building a wind turbine was the COGGING effect of the rotor. Permanent magnets can also be DANGEROUS if you forget their pulling power. Ask me how I know !
man idk bro
electromagnets are also dangerous
look at mri machine
it just sounds like magnets in general is dangerous, anything that has to do with electricity or magnetic field yeah
Great stuff, as usual. However, note that your closed captioning gets out of synch somewhere after 08:10 (perhaps due to the trimmed short sections?).
It would be good if there was an episode about the future of public transportation. One of the main problem we have is that world is designed too much for cars and not enough for humans. Public transportation should be an important part of the green transition and not just back-to-normal-cars-with-updated-technology.
I feel it is an important subject to talk about.
The United States*
@@RC-1290 While the USA might be the worst example, it's far from the only one. Even countries with cities that are great representations of mass public transit, pedestrian, and bicycle infrastructure have cities that are failures when it comes to multimodal transport.
@@RC-1290 In what world do you live where public transport is only a problem in the USA? You watch too many urbanist channels.
We're all living in Amerika, coca cola, sometimes war....
I live in Bulgaria now in a communist-built city - its amazing. Say what you want about the communities - they got city planning 100% spot on. Its built for the benefit of the PEOPLE who live there. All the trees are fruit trees - FREE FRUIT. Every 6 or so apartment blocks has a park and its own little high street. We have separate roads for the public transport so its way quicker than cars. The companies put on busses for the employees - you don't commute, they fetch you. The schools are distributed about the city so they are wa;lkable distance, the 3 age groups infants, middle and high school ar next to each other so the older kids can walk the younger kids to school. The hospitals are also distributed - 27 hospitals in my city of 250k people. We have meadows, little woodlands IN the city. Parking is very expensive £1 an hour but the bus is a flat rate of 70p no matter how long your trip. Oh and the cycle paths are separate roads - you don't share with the cars, you get a separate actual road that often takes a way more direct rout.
3 years after moving here i gave my car away cos I just never need it.
The difference to a British city is just ASTONISHING.
There 's a US startup company that makes rare earth free permanent magnets which have high magnetic fields as rare earth metal containing permanent magnets. The name of the company is Niron Magnetics. The technology they have looks very promising.
Thanks for sharing. This could be big. I hope they'll be able to bring this to market. I'd like to try them out too.
@@useruseruser501 My major is materials science and i have been following this company for many years. If they begin mass production, there will be great cost reductions in every industrial field.
I love hearing about these concepts, because it makes me so much more hopeful about the future of electric motors similar to all the battery research. There are some many areas that can be improved to solve some of the flaws of going all electric compared to fossil fuels.
You should be helping humanity evolve and stop harming and ruining innocent and helpless childrens lives, instead of perpetuating the cult as it has been for generations!
@@01mustang05 Yup. The "green initiative" is definitely all about the green alright just not the type of green you're thinking of.
Absolutely these innovations are the smart way to our energy needs. By this I mean lets first focus on our high energy usage products ie motors and lighting and make them more efficient. The universal problem with today's energy solution is "what path do we take" I say this because once a path is taken money and resources follow, and what if an improved tech comes along? A crystal ball is what we need. :) Thanks Matt and keep up the good work.
I think what I like about this story so much is that it furthers a theme of human history: where one group or generation says “it can’t be done” another says “hold my beer”
You gotta wonder how many things weren't invented becasue of blue laws on weekends.
Except in this case the kid is still too young to even hold a beer 😄
@@mafarmerga But not in Germany he isn’t!
Drinking beer is biggest cause of devolution, tesla even said dont drink coffee
@@mafarmerga in Germany you give beer together with breast milk to pacify the babies. Works.
Matt, thank you for what you are doing to spread such an important knowledge!
i think part of future tech has to be thermocouples. i used to work for an airline where the railway arm of the airline did a trial for 3ms where a special thermoucouple was wound around the diesl engines exhaust . the voltage off the thermocouple was enough to charge the trains batteries. so the answers are there they just have to be pryed out of the sources.
creative engineers keep coming up with awesome energy saving, (and energy producing) tech. In ten years the production, efficiency, and storage of electricity will be unrecognizable, ubiquitous, and inexpensive. Keep up the great reportage, Mat!! 🙂
Back in the seventies I studied electronics, in the eighties I got to work with several different types of motors, and generators. Siemens Allis had brought their hydroelectric facilities down to Florida, and they trained be to travel around the world, installing hydroelectric generators. I am a fan of Mr. Tesla. I have found certain flaws in manufacturing, that lower efficiency, that a few tolerance changes, and quality components, would see quite a bit of efficiency gains.
I noted you mentioning Lead and Mercury in electronics, and as much as these have been the two big ones that have been on the table to reduce, they are still used, but there are a lot of others that don't get a mention. Antimony, arsenic, beryllium, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, indium, lead, mercury, nickel, and thallium just to name some. I always found it interesting that only two were focused on and the others just kind of got ignored. I know, that's a bit off topic, but just something you got me thinking about when mentioning recycling electronics.
Smart SRM motors and inverter + induction motors can save 35% or more energy compared to standard line driven induction motors in applications that involve fans and centrifugal pumps which occur often in HVAC applications. That is due to the 'Variable Torque Load' which fans and centrifugal pumps exhibit such that Torque ~ (RPM)^2 and HorsePower ~ (RPM)^3, which means that a 15% reduction in speed can reduce electrical power requirements by 35% to 50%.
Matt, I am a longtime admirer and now I have to bring you to correct your assertion of carbon emissions 7 times of the Amazon Rainforest, this may be a fixed fact but the forest is a dynamic sink of carbon emissions and although I am convinced that technology I am also convinced that restauraron agriculture and the application of ancestral practices are part of the solution of carbon emissions and reaching carbon neutral civilization.
I work at the post office and listen to CZcams for a minimum of 8 hours a day. Out of all the channels I listen to, Undecided is still my favorite channel.
You've got a great job!
Our tax dollars at work.
Dam I really hope that works out for him. Also I hope he is able to get the materials for a live prototype as that would be amazing
There is a lot of buzz on axial flux motors these days. Enabling more efficient use of magnetic fields for higher torque with smaller motors ( so many motors, reducing total required materials is a definite plus.)
Perhaps better than the radial designed reluctance design. Perhaps an axial reluctance motor would (is?) be the way to innovate the next big thing in motors?
Most electric cars use induction motors, which require no permanent magnets. You may have said this in the video, I didn't watch the whole thing, I just saw that you were saying that permanent magnets were expensive.
I'm sorry if I missed it. Awesome video and so much information. The SRMs and Smart Motor systems, can they be run in reverse like electric motors, turning it into a generator? You mentioned wind turbines, so I was wondering if they could be applied that way as well.
I'm not a physicist, but I would think it would still be possible.
Yes.
Great video. Squirrel cage, somehow missed the view of the bars that induce a magnetic field reaction? More bars, more response and lots of bars spinning around resembles the exercise spinning cage toy for an active rodent. An opportunity for a video clip slipped by you. Picture a running squirrel replacing those toxic rare earths 😅
The flipping of the polarity in the animation 6:44 is in the incorrect orientation. It should happen 90 degrees from where it is shown, so that the loop of the armature is aligned with the magnetic field from the stator.
So what is the main innovation of the new design? The intro talks about avoiding need for permanent magnets, but we've known how to do that forever. The magnets just make for more compact motors.
It's a synchronous motor with air gaps replaced with another material.
you are right: most BLDC motors use ferrite magnets that are not too powerful but very cheap. The size advantage may be around 20%
I hope Sansone benefits fully from his design. If it is revolutionary, with the right investors, resources and patents he should be the next tech industry leader. Even if it isn't revolutionary, any company in the field should be queuing up to get this guy on board. If I wore a hat, I'd take it off to him!
A guy that age doing something with that much detailed engineering on such resources is fantastic to see. I went to university to do engineering and it sucked the soul out of the subject. I'm a hands on engineer and university was the opposite.
Has he been invited to the White House to celebrate his achievement, like Clock Boy was?
Does anyone know the patient number?
No senior project?
You are talking about how electric motors work and can't explain why the rotor of an induction motor is called a "squirrel cage"? Simply amazing.
Is 8:45 a cross section of the shaft? That internal geometry explains the need for 3D printing. Super super cool stuff!
Matt, I think there's a mistake in editing. Please check around 8:03 it seems like something is cut from your explanation between discussing salience and reluctance .
11:03 has a glitch too. Not as jarring though ;)
Thanks, its a fascinating video in any case 🙂
Someone made a comment about 2 different points of confusion which Matt then edited, I'm assuming you caught those 2 edits.
Kudos to the young man & the company for their work 👍👍
Your channel makes all the difference in the CZcams platform. It is an island in an empty ocean, an oasis in the desert! I wish our kids in Brazil could understand English!
oh wow, i hope this young genius gets all the funds and assistant he needs for his project
Incredible video! It's always inspiring to see young people making a difference in the field of technology.
What I like best about Sansone is how he's in there building his concepts and refining his prototypes. That young man is already a great engineer and I'm certain he will be saving humanity increasing amounts of energy for years to come.
Why isn't he playing Call of Duty like a normal teenager?
@@cnrspiller3549
Because a "normal" teenager doesn't have the mental drive and inquisitiveness to become a genius.
And its much easier to kill off the competition than to improve over them.
Just wait on the patent and presentation of real world specs. This could still be a scam. And we know that Matt loves to fall for scams!
… in *THEIR* building…
Thanks for your work in these fields!!
Hey can it be used to generate power as well ?? if so it would work well with small hydroenergy generation like that Turbulent flow company
absolutely fantastic work from this guy
Thanks for the video. It would definitely be nice to see that someday we won't need to mine quite as many rare earths.
Arguing square contro center. As a mechanic technician it's good to delve deeper Into the operations and turning of mountain bike machinery.
WOW!!!! THANKS FOR DESCRIBING THIS AMAZING DEVELOPMENT!!!
I am very confused because I thought that induction motors dont need rare earths and also that synchronous reluctance motors are already being used (very recently)
edit:
nvm this is pretty cool but i want to know how he can replace air gaps with magnetic fields ?
air gaps are already filled with magnetic fields. You do not have to do anything
Just FYI, I think as part of the correction in your pinned comment, cuts are at 8:04 and 11:04? Seems the subtitles weren't updated and everything after 8:04 is desynced
I believe what you are calling, or whoever, a smart motor is an A/C motor with a VFD (variable frequency drive). A/C motors when started work to immediately to achieve the RPM of the designed stator and rotor. The horse power is relatively low during this cycle. Industry would use clutches or soft starts (torque converter) to allow the electric motor to achieve a higher horse power before engagement. A VFD would allow 100% horse power at a very low RPM by increasing the cycles of the A/C. VFDs were installed on locomotives and mining equipment to improve efficiency and durability. HVAC units began using VFDs to eliminate full power start ups that use as much energy as the electric motor may use with in a half hour or more of use. In Phoenix I upgraded to a variable speed air conditioning unit that dropped my electricity consumption to under 50%. The unit would be running all day long but at much lower speeds for most of the day.
The original Tesla Model S motors were inductance motors, not permanent magnet based DC motors. Tesla has a bunch of patents on the designs. The permanent magnet motors in the Model 3 were cheaper to manufacture, and lighter, and so that's why they went with that design. Anyway, inductance motors (electric motors that don't use permanent magnets in their design) have already been used to great effect in EVs. Hopefully this new push into optimizing their designs will make them the norm - I never liked the use of rare earth magnets in infrastructural industrial design.
The squirrel cage & hamster wheel have been brought up, but no one mentioned anything about their lesser-known, esoteric sibling. It's more unconventional than its predecessors as it contains nickel-based bars around the circumference of the cage and osmium rings instead of copper rings, known as a Nickel-Os Cage.
:D :D :D :D
😂😂
he he.
HAR!!! an overacting action motor?
That was a long walk 😂
I am a long time subscriber and just wanted to thank you for the effort that clearly goes into every vid. Awesome channel and a key goto for me for scientific developments!
Much appreciated!