EEVblog
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 11. 2013
- Dave demonstrates how to add testing capabilities to your PCB panel for easier production testing. Using an example of his new uCurrent design, and also a commercial product designed to be automatically ATE tested.
Essentially Part 3 of the PCB Design For Manufacture series.
PCB DFM Part1: • EEVblog #127 - PCB Des...
PCB DFM Part2: • EEVblog #239 - PCB Des...
uCurrent Test Jig: • EEVblog #270 - µCurren...
Testing uCurrents: • RAW! Testing µCurrent'...
Forum: www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eev...
EEVblog Main Web Site:
www.eevblog.com
EEVblog Amazon Store:
astore.amazon.com/eevblogstore-20
Donations:
www.eevblog.com/donations/
Projects:
www.eevblog.com/projects/
Electronics Info Wiki:
www.eevblog.com/wiki/ - Věda a technologie
You should sell DaveCad commercially, looks pretty intuitive
Tried it once - way too many bugs - waiting for v3.x...
watching EEVBlog is just such an awesome delightful experience
Brilliant Video, Dave. I can't wait to see the first production run.
This was great as an example for more complicated boards, but on simple circuits like this I think an acrilic top with pogo-stick test leads would be way easier and have more functionality, your tester could work all switches etc.
Oh Dave, your timing is incredible! I've spent the last couple of weeks working on a new test jig! Thanks again! Also, never waste those tabs! Most of my panels only have one product on them, sometimes two, so I usually put the test connector on the board. The tabs are a great place to put SOT to DIP adapters. You can also use them for custom BUS connectors, imagination is pretty useful here.
Thanks, as always, for the ideas and discussion!
100k !!!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS DAVE!!!!
Thanks. I really appreciate these kinds of videos.
That censored board looks like an FPGA development board with all those IO connectors. Now if only I knew about a company where Dave used to work that also sells FPGA soft design tools ;-)
You make it look easy. I wish I had 1/10 the skill you do Dave.
Oh Boy, DAVE YOU ARE brilliant, and a great man! Big strong handshake, for a such nice personality, and for disclosure very useful information in such details, especially useful for novices and dummies! Love You channel! It's like treasure for me.
Love these videos! I'm on the other side of this sort of QA system -- I write the firmware for the testing jigs, or the PC interface software if it's something particularly complicated. But I'm always working with the EE designer to help improve things or assisting with finding faults in the overall system. Fun stuff!
Uh oh Dave, you forgot to tape over a silkscreen on your test board, was able to Google what product this board was for.
what was it i couldnt find the open silkscreen?
i recently resigned a simple voltage regulator using the LM371T. i put some test points on the board so you can put a multimeter on them to see your output voltage.
learning pcb design is really beneficial and you end up with a professional quality item good enough to sell! noobs should try a program called fritzing. its free and they also are the cheapest company that will make pcbs ! and there quality is amazing
Like that PCI connector, I knew a girl who was good for a large number of insertions.
Very interesting! This video opened my eyes to some of the practicalities of electronics I had never thought about. It seems the old 1950's 'time and motion' thing is even now hugely important and the attempt to shave just a part of a second off the overall production of a product is well worth doing when multiplied through hundred of thousands or millions of repetitions.
Given that engineers consider these testing requirements it makes you wonder how it is that bad parts make it on to the market - especially if they come from giants like Microsoft or Sony.
thx so much 4 that lot of inspiration.
Wow Sir, Seriously!! You designed the Nanoboard?!!! wohooo and i am learning from you. :D
before locking this i always use pogo pins .. but this a realy great idea. Thanxxx
To pre-empt (and reply to one unreplyable comment by Andreas Dill), the fact that battery negative and virtual grounds are both held common is *not* actually a problem here.
The virtual ground is defined by 1% resistors, so there's a 2% error on the virtual ground level. This is ±60mV. This connects to the virtual ground net via a 270R resistor, resulting in a ±200uA current resulting from the op amps "fighting" with each other. This is less than 1% the maximum output current of the op-amp, i.e., just fine.
Ok, switched to hd and rechecked. Your right. But there is still the problem that you cant check the virtual ground OpAmp this way. If one is faulty the other 9 will override the error.
Andreas Dill Oooh, good point. If the output pin of the op amp isn't soldered down, everything will still appear to work fine, and then stop working once the board is broken out. I stand 100% corrected, sir.
µCurrent GOLD™
So you could use a test board to test the test board, which in it's case needs to be tested too ? :P
Brilliant video to show how to make use of otherwise wasted panel space for a test framework. Given the limitation of just four traces per board, did you consider using test pads on the bottom and a test bed? I suppose it'd be a bit of a challenge to make a DIY test bed but you'd get the extra connection points. Just curious to know if it crossed your mind.
From a video perspective the panel test concept is more interesting than test pads. Will you do a follow-up video showing the test platform and test process later? Looking forward to it if so. I think your audience would also be interested if you ever got a chance to talk further about test pads / bed of nails testing.
Great idea i might try this for my multi detector arrays and my giant clock
Hi Dave, I love this idea of panel testing however I am having some issues with how you actually make a panel level schematic in Altium Designer. Any chance you would have tips on how to do this? Cheers clancy.
May I humbly request a quick demonstration of your finished test ready bored after production? I think I may have to join the forum finally.
If you have plated through holes, you could use a pressfit connector instead of soldering a header to the board and save a few steps, too...
We seriously need video of you doing the testing when you get patch of these new board on testing...
555, it's almost here. Please please please make a special on the 555 timer :)
Hi Dave, super series. Do You have some tricks and tipps design and production of izzi bizzi smt pcb's. Let's say 7mm by 12mm for instance ? Also, do You know any very small board and cable connectors available ? Last one: do You have some information how to design combinations of pcb with LED's ( 0402 or 0603 ) and light pipes, of course also very small as for 1mm by 0.5mm ?
Silly passing thought looking at your schematic and routing limitations and I thought I'd toss in my two cents:
Ideally it looks like you could knock down your test connections to 5 points and with a little clever cover make it not destroy the top surface continuity.
Mandatory traces on the bottom side for input positive, output positive, battery positive, and battery negative leaving no trace pairs along the ear to short out.
The trick for I/O negative; since they are tied together and looks like they are your flood plane on the top side would be to flood it "out" across all 10 units and viola! You can test all ten simultaneously after all. Of course this might be an issue when it comes to the routing since it might leave a nasty copper edge. I have no idea if your manufacturer can run a 90 degree bevel for the routing cut to leave a cleaner edge if you flood the whole top surface.
Final connection could be accomplished with a 24 pin (20 I/O positive pairs, 1 I/O common negative, 2 battery +/-, 1 NC key pin) IDC header since you obviously don't want to parallel all those sense inputs or device outputs. ;-)
Possible to use the top, but likely would look a bit daggy. The cutters would expose the copper on the corners. Could mask that somewhat by ironically having deliberate peel back of the solder mask on the corners or edge.
That testing setup is really clever but when you cut out the individual boards those test leads will be floating, doesn't that risk introducing noise to the circuit?
So whatever happened to the uSupply? I was quite excited to get my hands on one!
Why did you add a separate binding post for the mA range?
Ahhh!! Very clever! :)
Warning! X-rated PCB action at 3:36
Thank God, it was censored! :)
Aaaaaah My eyes
what program do you use for desining your board, (sry if it is an stupid question :) )
recently i've learnt about people who get a small magnet implanted in a finger tip to allow them to feel magnetic fields (because of brain plasticity) - a few have said that they work in electrical engineering and can use it to just easily feel for a broken component without having to faff around with a multimeter - and then use one to find out just how it's misbehaving. sounds like something you might be interested in?
Could you please make a playlist for pcb design from basic to advance for new learners.. Your teaching is very practical..
Dave, I second udai shankar's request. Lots of still very relevant information here, regardless of EDA software used. I found the first three installments, but I don't know if there's more, although I did find some PCB layout info in the PSU design vlogs (specifically, part 9). Thanks a mil, I mean a thou!!!
Would it not be better to have the breakout tabs not at the 4 corners where you would have to smooth out 4 edges, but along a side (in the middle of a side) where you could use a simple plane sander to smooth the 2 edges? That way you could easily incorporate quite a few test traces leading out of your pcb into the panel frame.
Forgive me If I'm completely wrong, but since the input and output share a common ground and that's attached to your front ground plane, couldn't you route a thin trace off the front corner without really being noticeable at all?
Then all you need is battery -, battery +, input +, and output +. Those four will go out the back, and I doubt anyone is going to notice the tiny little trace off the corner of the front ground plane. Might save you a lot of time having to probe each one. You could just have a set of 10 smd footprints on the board with one side all on current plus and the rest running to each board, and just slide the tip of a screwdriver down the line to test them.
A video about Automated PCB Panel Testing and no mention of using pogo pins to do it?
Because I've already mentioned pogo pins in another video. This video was about getting traces out of boards onto panel, for whatever reason. I had not really covered that before. If you use pogo pins then there may be no need at all for anything on the panel.
Craps!!!!, Dave is running a Black Project 0-0, ohm 3:38
With the ground common, wouldn't it work to use the 4 available connections for power input, ground, current input and voltage output?
Ok, does not seem to have a fully common ground...
I don't know a damn thing about electronics but I find it fascinating. I've watched most of Dave's videos but I have no idea what the micro current does. Is it's purpose to provide a constant micro current?
Hm, your basically shorting all the outputs of the virtual ground Opamps together, while also using a common negative for all boards. This will be problematic.
can you explain me about of programming them after mcu soldered to pcb in high volume PCB manufacture ?
check out In System Programming. Depending on your chip and programming interface it could be as simple as adding a jumper to interrupt the device for programming and then use pogo pins or a dedicated header to interface to the board and program the chip while it is in circuit.
18:00 DaveCAD Enterprise SP1
Do you test the testboard?
for my personal taste i would also change the fonts used in the front silkscreen. maybe something looking a bit more high tech. thin traces, not too tall, rounded corner fonts...
So change it to something someone else doesn't like... you can see where this ends up...
EEVblog I know, opinions are relative, but i can't avoid thinking it seems a bit cluttered and chunky the way it is.
So you're gonna apply physical stress to the boards, after you tested it ?
No, that is what happens with v-grooving if you snap them. With tabs you cut them out with side cutter, so no stress.
czcams.com/video/2zGisPMNstI/video.html
isn't that a bug in Altium that it show the outline of the PCB where it is not supposed to have one (in that case at the corner)?
I have panelized one of my projects and still have the single PCB outline in the final gerber files
Black bar censoring... it is back. Though a mix of black bar and blurification.
Can you v cut inner layer on a 4 layer pcb?
Also, what kind of failure rate do you normally expect on this kind of thing?
I ment does the v cut hit the inner 2 layers on a 4 layer pcb?
Chris Given They can somewhat control the depth, but generally speaking you wouldn't do this because then you break the board, if there is inner plane on the outside edge, they can short.
Why do some people say that you cannot ship lithium based batteries? I have ordered many li-ion batteries from ebay and they were shipped from china (labeled as gift :) ), and there was never a problem. Is the battery thing limited just to Australia?
there were some flights in which the Li batteries exploded, causing a crash.
Yeah, so you can lie and not say it's a li-ion battery. Much like you can send cocaine and say that it's a bag of flour. Tell me how you get on with that.
Lithium can cause hard to control metal fires which in a airplane is not good. One or two little coin cells won't cause damage but shipping and not labeling a box of laptop batteries is. You are not even supposed to have lithium batteries in your checked baggage only your hand carry as it is more obvious and easier to fight a fire if you can see it. (Not all lithium batteries burn in the same way as some have less lithium in them to start with or are fire/explosion/puncture resistant depending on the specific chemistry used)
Check hongkongpost.com website. The notice is shown to you the moment you enter the website. Lithium batteries are prohibited from sending through air (including Speedpost/EMS). China Post has a similar policy. People who are still sending them by air and lying on the declaration form is just taking their chances.
Could also be your shipment didn't go by air. I've ordered CR2032 cells from China before ($1 for 5, free shipping) and wait 2-3 weeks for them to show up. Those don't go by air.
Hey Dave, if you weren't making a video for this, would you still be making it? Seems like a long time spent designing the test rig for a product that will have a relatively low production run. When its all said and done, do you think it will save you much time?
It was only a few tens of minutes actual work to add that stuff to the existing panel.
MIDI, VGA, Keyboard and Mouse, along with all the other stuff...man I'm really intrigued as to what the product was haha
Its an FPGA obviously. Most likely altium.
MrDeemsMusic
I got slightly excited that it might have been something to do with the new Fairlight CMIs
This is a really neat way of testing. but what happens if a board fails?
Just because of one board failing you have to retain the working 9 other boards. This could prove a pain in quick turnaround environments if a certain amount of boards are due out from a production in a certain time frame.
No, the 9 good ones get cut out and shipped, bad one goes to rework.
If you need more testing traces you could modify the routing edges so you have 2 breaking tabs on each corner (8 in total). Like this picture: s13.postimg.org/n7jesf7qv/tabs.png
Nice idea, but it would compromise the attractiveness of the final product.
The gerber viewer within altium is... not very usefull. Does artefacts at the end of the video is typical. I am using the opensource tool gerbv to verify my gerbers. (Also based on, "to not trust the tool which created the files in the first place)
Gerbv is not perfect, but honestly: good enough for daily use.
Is that an Al&)@m Nan0&oard 3000? It is not so bad that you need to "protect the innocent" right?
+Sihao Huang It's most likely a NB2STR01 (Altium NanoBoard Starter Kit version 2, with Xilinx FPGA) since that's what it says on the test rig (6:57), so the attempt at censorship was largely a failure. Apparently there were also Altera and Lattice versions (02 and 03), same for NanoBoard 3000. Alas, none of this stuff is manufactured or sold any more...
Testing some PC motherboards I see?
don't you just need to route out vcc gnd voltage out and current positive because it is ground referenced
just realized there's a chip between battery ground and the output ground
manual solder pin header on every panelize board cost money and time. since it's on the edge , you could consider using clamp type test pin. it's simple ,cheap and universal if you design your future board for use in your existing test rig... go figure!
Yes, I may not actually use a connector, it's just a convenient footprint. Might use pogo pins in the final jig.
EEVblog
Check out Tag Connect! www.tag-connect.com/
Black tape and blurred images? WTF? Add in some creative editing skills and all those product reviews you have worked your ass off over the years now suffer from instant credibility loss! Good job Dave.
3:43 electronic porn censored for the faint of heart
One video of yours that was hard to watch. I can't stand pointless censorship.
There is a point to it, why would I do it otherwise?
EEVblog Hi Dave! This commenter is crazy probably.... (saying "why the censorship...?")
These boards are probably belong to an owner.... (you are the maker but the product was ordered by a company and they don't want to be revealed.... simple as that isn't it? :) )
Or you want to protect your own stuff ... ...
Either way it is your business what u show or hide.... and btw you show the world something that no one do in general so the anarchist hater jerks should shut up anyway :) :) :)
Dave I am a so happy to find you on youtube..... gonna explain it once.... and I also hope we will work together in the future on some stuff I am planing in my head.
I can't express my huge respect for you sir here on this surface!
I wish you the very best!!!
( Zoltan Marton - composer, music app developer, designer )
molekulaTV EEVblog I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just don't see the point. Covering up someones name is robbing them of their works credit. I can't see why they wouldn't want to be shown off for free to a huge network of people. To me, this board is art and covering it up is like graffiti. Maybe it's because I'm so young, but to me all I see is "Well, these guys suck, so I'm going to block them out because they don't deserve to be shown." I guess your reasoning makes sense, but I still don't get why on a completely different level. Still a good video as always!
joblessalex
It's not about robbing the board designer (I believe in the video Dave said *HE* designed it) of credit. It has to do with not associating the company for whom it was made, with something they did not expressly permit.
This is the same reason you see people in television shows with tape covering up the Metallica logo on their hat.
joblessalex What? That makes no sense. He obviously did work for a company and he has a responsibility under contract to not disclose certain information. Its a legal and ethical decision.