Where Are The Dragonseeds in the Main ASOIAF Series
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- In House of The Dragon Season 2 we are getting plotlines involving dragonseeds. The children born from House Targaryen and the smallfolk. The fact that so many of them exist during the dance with the dragons makes me wonder where the dragonseeds are in the main A Song of Ice and Fire books. So today in this video we will be taking a look at a nice long list of candidates and the reasons to suspect they may have some Targaryen blood in them. Be sure to let me know if there is any candidates I have missed here.
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Remember the basic rule for Asoiaf theories. Everyone is a secret Targaryen except for Dani, who isn't one.
She's a blackfyre. In the original novella before AGOT, the house with the red door was in Tyrosh. It also explains the contempt viserys had for her.
@@Ranben.
Viserys when Dany was very little did seem to genuinely care for her, though. It’s only as he got more jaded and cynical after they had to sell family heirlooms and reminders of their family he begins to resent her.
@realdaggerman105 maybe. But there's a lot of historical in-world hints (and previous work hints) that danyt is a blackfyre
@@Ranben.
I think while obviously her childhood is mysterious, she is at most a nobody ‘pisswater princess’. But personally I do think she is just Daenerys Targaryen. Not everybody needs a secret true identity. fAegon is already almost certainly a Blackfyre or Lyseni commoner. We don’t need to retread that ground.
You forgot the most important theories: Tyrek Lannister is a horse and Ser Pounce is the Prince that was Promised.
I just realised that maybe Pentos had figured out the whole power of kingsblood thing, that's why they elect their prince and sacrifice him when they need to. Now they've forgotten the original intent of it all.
A prince to be sacrificed. The promised prince of the prophecy is actually a sacrifice for a magical ritual.
Dany is a Dayne, Ashara is Quaithe, the house with the red door is in starfall, and Jamie was last seen a horse.. it is known😅
It is known
It is known.
Ashara is Septa Lemore IMO
@joshmo141x I am trapped into thinking Ashara is Quaithe by my interpretation of lineage. I think Dany is a Dayne, and because of this, I don't see ashara forsaking her blood for a targaryen impostor.. unless young Griff is actually Ned and asharas baby..
I personally think Quaithe is Shierra Seastar. I think it would be interesting if former magical lovers were controlling two different realms of magic on opposite sides of the globe. Perhaps even working together.
"So it turns out that Dany's dragons favourite sellsword, Brown Ben Plumm, may be a descendant of Elaena Targaryen, known for her white blonde hair with a stripe of yellow-gold in it."
*Sees Viserion's colours*
"I wonder if that will ever come up?"
It's probably quite literally Elaena's dragon egg as well. She rocked around with an egg that had the same shades of her hair.
@@jessjess23brooks89 Given the eggs came as a set, I lean more towards them being the three eggs that Elissa Farman stole from Dreamfyre. Nonetheless, Plumm's family history and interactions with Dany's dragons, plus the convo that Jaime has with Longwaters in the dungeon of the Red Keep in AFFC, tells me that George is setting up for Dany to lose a dragon to someone she does not expect in TWOW.
It has already come into text, and yeah-THAT line of the Plumm bloodline was born of Death as well in text. He dies the night they consumate.
Dany being a bastard raised as a noble and Jon being a noble raised as a bastard is the kind of mirrored parallel between the two that makes it shine for me. Ice/Male/Secret trueborn heir vs Fire/Female/Secret bastard. It can actually make Dany herself be the "mummer's dragon".
I’ve actually never heard the Tyrion being a twin who absorbed the other before (somehow) but I think that one actually makes 100% sense.
Me and my partner are expecting twins this October so I recently found out the chance of women having twins increases with age so she is more likely to have twins after Jamie and cerci than before and the meleys the monstrous parallels - brilliant.
Gray Area did this one a few years ago. I think Tyrion might ride Sheepstealer.
Now here is the funny question: which of the Tyrion twins preserved their jewels? It would mean everything on whether Tyrion would be capable of passing down his alleged dragonriding ability.
I'm almost certain Rhaegar and Lyanna married, in ACoK Theon has that vision where he eats with the dead in Winterfell. He sees Lyanna with a white dress, I've always assumed the implication there is that it's a wedding dress.
I sure do love when Michael Talks About Stuff
I love how GRRM just sneaks all kinds of references
Like he COULD stick to mythological references but NO, he sneaks in comics, he sneaks in football, he sneaks in music, he sneaks in all kinds of jokes
I feel like he might be in my dream blunt circle idk
My favorite is the Tully house during The Dance. Grover, Kermit and Oscar Tully.
@@jessjess23brooks89 The Muppet Tullys deserve a show all to themselves.
Btw, don't forget Elmo!
Blazing up with GRRM would be incredible!
@@thing_under_the_stairs Omg I can't believe I forgot Elmo. My daughter will never forgive me.
The three stooges help kidnap Tyrion to tge vale for cat.
Larys, curly cat, and mohaw.
Sorry I know I misspelled their names but they are there, they’re goons and I think they help show what a foolhardy, poorly thought out and doomed mission they were on…
And imo cat continues that trend until her death and beyond, the harder she pushes others (even if she’s got good intentions) the worse the outcome.
Everytime this guy uploads, George has a cold sweat worrying how more he’ll figure out before he can write it 😂
Michael every time you upload one of these videos I feel my schizophrenia being held at bay for a while
House longwaters didn’t make it onto this list? Nor house Penrose or hightowers or velaryons who all have Targaryen ancestors through Baela, Rhaena, & Elena Targaryen?
Clayton suggs is most definitely a Dragon seed... The Shield alone is a dead giveaway cuz we have seen that sigil before
About the chimera theory. Tyrion does not need Tywin to be his father to have Lannister traits. Joanna is already a Lannister. He can be the son of Aerys and still be half Lannister
Oooh excellent video! I'll try to keep this comment as hinged as possible.
Love the Clayton Suggs argument. Definitely think the "flying pigskin" sigil and the fact he hangs out with Godry "Giantslayer" supports to NFL idea. A barnyard animal with wings slapped on also echoes confirmed Targ bastard Bittersteel's sigil.
Marwyn as a Brightflame isn't one I've heard, but I do kinda like it. He's rumored to be mad, just like Aerion's son Maegor. Aerion dabbled with magics and alchemic wildfire, while Marwyn hangs out with The Alchemist. It would deepen the Aemon connection since Marwyn would be his nephew or great nephew.
The Tyrion section is spot on. I actually just this morning put out a big reddit post laying out basically all the same points. "It doesn't hurt the Tywin relationship as much as they say. It probably will be left open-ended, rather than explicitly answered. Maelys exists to set up the chimera possibility." Unsurprisingly, reddit hated that.
Rennifer Longwaters, the chief undergaoler of the Red Keep dungeons, is the descendent of Elaena Targaryen and Alyn Velaryon. Their son’s son founded house Longwaters. So house Longwaters comes from double Valyrian ancestry
Aurane Waters is a great candidate for dragon seedage.
Hey man, just found your channel a few weeks back and have been loving your stuff. Id like to maybe request that you make a playlist that just has all of your videos in it, like one that's "the whole channel". I listen to ASOIAF stuff to fall asleep and if I don't select a playlist and just do something from the videos section it will oftentimes switch away from the channel after 1 video :)
Anyways just a suggestion, wanna help you get more views :) keep up the great work really been enjoying your stuff!
I can't believe you didn't mention these two...(F)aegon...supposedly replaced by a flea bottom child, but more likely the actual flea bottom child,vand Varys...who, being from Lys, I believe is a likely decendent of Saera Targaryen ..the daughter of Jaeherys who ran off to Lys, or possibly a blackfyre decendent.Varys is said to have violet eyes somewhere in the books.
Yes! Yes! Tyrion chimera theory!!! Not just his eyes arw different colors, that can happen other ways, but he also has two haircolors!!!
I'm so happy you finally made this vid! Haha. I thought about Clayton originally as a joke. But like most theories, the more you think about it, the more sense it makes.
Before watching theres actually a few dragonseeds cut out of the show. Brown ben plum for example is one of the few living descendants of aegon dragonsbane(rhaenyra's son) and danys dragons like him well enough in the novels, theres of course potentially tyrion, jon, and daenerys, but theres also young griff, then theres the entire baratheon line considering orys may have been aegon the conquerer's illegitimate half brother(my favorite theory is thats where the name baratheon came from), then theres that theory in lore and in the community that use at least for the show may be confirmed whenever they get to the conquest, that all targaryens are bastards born not from aegon i but his sister and a bard she was fond of who had valeryian features with aegon's blessing.
There's also Aurane Waters
What about Shiera Seastar? Her brother, the three-eyed crow, is presumably a Blackfire. So maybe she is too.
Her location isn't known, of course, but there is a rumor that she is actually Quaithe so if true she would definitely be able to make herself present to ride one of Daenerys' three dragons.
Brynden Rivers or Lord Bloodraven would put you on his personal hitlist for this.
Like Daemon Blackfyre and Aegor „Bittersteel“ Rivers, founder of the Golden Company, he was a legitimized bastard son of Aegon the unworthy.
He almost single handedly put down all of the Blackfyre Rebellions.
In the books, it’s not clear that he is the three eyed crow of Bran‘s dreams, but he is being consumed by the weirwood net as well and mentoring Bran to become his successor.
Great video Michael! I would love to see a collaboration between you and David Lightbringer
I love David and think he’s been on the right track, taught symbolism to me and many others… however he is getting a lot of views and many of the “new ideas” he’s been introducing us to are ideas brought forth by small channels that make solid content but could use more subs, no hate, but it’s kind of a messed up situation
Undead Stannis riding Ice Dragon would be fun
My take on Daenerys Stormborn is that she was the Dragonseed of Aerys and Ashara. The baby swap was done while she was a newborn with Aegon so that Viserys and his brother could be raised in separate locations. There was a previous instance of a Viserys and Aegon being separated and being raised in exile during a time of turmoil in Targaryen history right after the Dance of the Dragons. An added bonus was that Viserys might have a sister wife or bargaining chip if things didn't work out with the Martell marriage pact.
Is not clear if the current house velaryon has targaryen blood but I would still mention them, also the guard of Tyrion's cell in king'slanding tells Jaime he has dragonblood and it's confirmed, he is part of a minor house of the crownlands called Longwaters that comes from a bastard of Alyn Velaryon and Elaena Targaryen
Another popular theory about Marwyn is that he's a Martell. This theory is based on comparisons between the two Martell body types that show up. The wiry version and the blocky version. If he is a Martell then his comparison of himself to Aemon as not being trusted because of his blood makes sense. As does his association with Alaras. Both the Targ ideas work, but I think the Martell version has a slight edge because it explains other things like Alaras and fits with the aspects of the Martell plot like Oberyn.
Always forget her name, the one in Braavos.
Anyone descended from any of the houses that held Harrenhall. It's common to marry a daughter of the previous lord to cement your family's right to hold the castle. All the way from Qoherys to the mistresses of Aegon4.
Any bastard connected to the Velaryons. Including the one Jaime talks to in the dungeon.
There are a couple others, but their potential is more obscure and less plausible.
As a note though, I wouldn't mind seeing your opinion on the parallel between Garth Greenhand and dragonseeds. A lot of the language like "blessed" seems to have an echo between the two.
All the Stark kids are possible dragonseeds through House Whent and Lothston via Aegon IV
@@kahare9565 Indeed. And Bran actually flew in a dream just like Dany. Arguably, that was a Dragon Dream.
Bran climbed out of the crypts amid the dead Ironborn (the salt sea came to Winterfell) and the smoking ruins of Ramsey's sack. In other words, appeared to come back from the dead.
imo, the whole point of the Quentyn Martell dragon claimer plot line was for George to cut out the possibility of distant-Targ descendants being possible dragon riders. Other than adding to Doran’s grief, there’s really no other reason for George to include the whole Quentyn death plot line. And by showing that a distant drop of dragon blood doesn’t let people claim dragons, George is able to streamline a lot of otherwise potential loose ends
love the chimera theory its super interesting and something ive explored for my own story
My favorite dragonseed theory is that Daenerys is one. Just because it's the most impactful. The only one that would be important I would say.
Because if any other character ends up being a dragonseed it's not really interesting. Even if it's Jon it's still just like "well he was a Stark bastard and now he's a Targeryen bastard". A bastard is a bastard. Doesn't mean much
I got you on Noti G.
Keep it up 👍.
My Kiddo's favourite ice hockey teams are Belfast Giants and Bristol Pitbulls. Waiting for GRRM to include this imagery....
Tywin saying he can not prove Tyrion is not his implys that he KNEW The Mad King slept with Joanna at that Tournament
I think if he knew aerys slept with Joanna he would have said so after Roberts rebellion and probably had Tyrion killed.
Tywin was probably infertile.
I love the thought that Tyrion could be both The Mad Kings son and Tywin! The Danny dragon seed one is new to me. It's an interesting thought, but I don't think I can subscribe to it. Just wouldn't make sense as to why they would feel the need to bring her in. Unless they intended Vis to marry her?
Preston Jacobs IS big on the Dany Dragon seed Thing. Has a series about IT, Dany and the Page of Lies . . .He makes a Ton of ver interesting and good observations and Points, though I do Not at all agree with His conclusion, the way there IS absolut worth watching!
@@arianewinter4266 I'll have to check out some of those videos. Heading different theories is very fun to me even if I might not agree with them. Though i can be convinced! Lol
In story, dragonseed Daenerys can make sense as a Valyrian wife for Viserys to increase legitimacy and avoid Essosi complications. Grabbing her would be an opportunity without much downside.
Narratively, Daenerys claims entitlement to Westeros as her birthright. If that is stripped away, how does she react? Does she relinquish her claim or, much more likely, find a new justification? What would that justification be? Also, with all the secret Targaryen theories, it would be hilarious if our one for certain Targaryen isn't one.
I don’t know, man. Viserys would have known about this, too.
And never in his many rages did he allude to this to Dany? More likely he would have spat this in her face at least every other opportunity he got.
I think the idea that it takes targ blood to ride a dragon is bunk!
I feel like viserys talking to raynera, telling her aegons prophecy in front of the skull of balerian tells us that.
It’s a variation of the riddle Varys asks Tyrion, where they teach us that power resides where men think it resides, but I seem to be alone on that
There looks like there's a little wiggle room in the world book regarding Aerys being Jaime and Cersei's father. It says Joanna was dismissed by the queen and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter.
To further support Tyrion Targaryen theory which I hate by the way, the only other people (that I remember) with mismatched eyes aka heterochromea are a Targaryen and a Targaryen bastard- Alyssa Targaryen and Shiera Seastar. Get this, both had a GREEN eye and the other is a violet (Alyssa) or a dark blue (Shiera) eye respectively.
can you make a video about all the potantial dragon riders
This question is my Roman empire. Since Preston Jacob is taking up finishing the books I thought this could help in Bran/Daenerys arc later on. And also where the targaryens princess went and where there little lordlings too?
I think Marwyn is a Martell. That would explain the dragon blood and why the Citadel doesn't trust them. They have dragon blood and were strongly aligned with the Targaryens in the last hundred years or so, Reachermen hate the Dornish, and the Rhoynar are outsiders to whatever weird secret stuff is going on in Oldtown. The name might me a clue, Marwyn Martell would fit in with all the names the start with M and it's a lot of -yn names like Luwyn, Oberyn, and Quentyn.
I myself prefer that Tyrion is Tywin's son in totality while Jamie and Cercei are not his but Aerys'. The irony is great.
i am with him, there are so many clues for tyrion being a chimera Like He does Not Just have 2 different eyecolors but also 2 haircolors!!! I am unaware of another way to explain that! Also the irony IS already, whatever He is tywins or Not, He IS the Most Like him/ qualifies to carry in His legacy and tywins IS blind to it
This still makes him Tywin's son.
I thought dragon stone was just a castle? So people live on dragon stone? When Danny arrived at dragon stone, nobody was there. It was deserted
25:10 There is a theory that Danny is actually a Blackfyre.
If George wants to screw with theorists, making Quentyn a dragon rider would do the trick extremely well.
He has Targ blood so it works!
Preston Jacobs has entered the chat
I liked the symmetry of Tyrion being a Targaryen because then he and Jaime are two brothers who killed each other’s fathers
There is a whole family of Dragon seeds from a bastard house that still exists in the Crown Lands. The Long Waters
Dany is a dragonseed, Jon is Ashara's son.
Could the Tattered Prince be a descendant of Saera Targaryen?
When the Sun rises in the North and sets in the South, When CZcamsrs stop getting sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends....The Winds of Winter will blow into your nearest bookstore or Amazon link and we will find out if these predictions ring true
Is it Clayton Suggs? Or is it pronounced Shugs? As in short for Sugar. Suggs is short for Sugars.
There's no telling where Aerions son Maegor went. Him only being denied the thrown because of his name and his fathers madness. Also Rennifer Longwaters 😎
I think Michael is a Dragonseed.
Aurane Waters?
"..in footballing terms it would have been a great dunk.."
yay posted 20 seconds ago!
It would be funny if instead of jon or faegon, Clayton "Squid Game" Suggs got to ride one of danys dragons
I'm actually kinda pedestrian on this... as much as I'm shipping N+A, if I'm being real R+L probably does = J. So Jon will ride one (Rheagal) with Tyrion (I am almost 100% sure Tywin is sterile and all the Lannister kids were Aerys's...it's pretty heavy-handed once you're looking for it). So either Tyrion or the "Night's King" (who might be Stannis and/or Euron....maaaaaaybe Bran) will ride Viserion...honorable mention/wild card goes to Val, cause she's gonna be important for sure and I have no idea what or who she is
Oh and I think a strong enough warg without any "dragon blood" could ride a dragon, tbh...
Tyrion COULD be a chimera and both Tywin and Aerys are his fathers....see the mismatched eyes.
oh you just said this 🤣😂🤣
who in the fat fish of a phenomenal Farfegnugen F IS MARWIN???? Probably a dragon seed, yes, but kind of a D move to drop this SUPER mysterious dude into the story then 12 years later we're all like ummmm yeah that was weird who the F was that guy???
Aurane waters and Reniffer Longwaters absolutley would quilify
Gendry was Cersei & Robert's....he's the one true heir to the Iron Throne. Hahaha for real tho
Renefer longwater the dragon lord
For the algorithm.
So... Pentos is France.
Tyrion DOESN'T have dragon dreams. He has dreams about dragons which he is obsessed with. It is completely different. The dragon dreams are prophetic visions. Tyrion's dreams were not.
I'm not the first comment, and I'm not the best comment. But boy do I exist.
It's very clear that Jon is not a bastard?
If we're talking about the books, it's not even absolutely confirmed who Jon's parents are, let alone whether Lyanna and Rhaegar were married and whether that marriage would be accepted as valid. Jon being a bastard is very much on the table.
Well, we can't know that yet
@AlaricXIII he's also likely not named aegon. It seems that parts of griff's character was rolled into show Jon then bastardized because the late seasons suck ass
@@brendanmuller7301in general the Aegon name is the justification R+L=A theories any more
I might edit this comment, but OG First Night is Ius Primae Noctis..and 'heir of the body' means Legitimate Heir. It means that they did have children; they were considered illegitimate. Fitzroy is someone to look at-but historically there was a king who takes the throne as a bastard. And the word 'Sigil' is a word for magical symbol-it is NOT a Family Crest or a Coat of Arms-it is a Sigil and combined with words it is literally a magical invocation of some kind. Mance Raydar is raiding tombs in text-and Illyrio has a Manse that has treasures in it, so did Winterfell, so does the Wall. Mance Rayder IS literally a Manse/Tomb Raider.
One thing that the show did which was weird was try to cope and make Lyanna and Rhaegar married. Rhaegar and Elia were married under the Seven. They do not grant annulment (such a thing isn't even mentioned). And if the Faith is modelled after Catholicism, as it is, you cannot annul a marriage that is properly instituted and has issue, i.e. children. Annulment is usually granted when there is some sort of clear violation of the requirements of the sacrament and even then only if the Pope or bishop is favourable to the case for some other reason.
The other option for Rhaegar is some sort of Valyrian polygamy ceremony or old gods marriage. Which has the problem that now your child is a bastard in the eyes of most of Westeros, since polygamy is invalid and I don't think the Old Gods allow for polygamy anyway. So the marriage can't be valid that way.
I personally don't think Jon is a Targaryen anyway. But I especially don't think him being a legitimate royal heir in anyway makes his story seem interesting. He's about how your character and not your birth determines your worth. He's noble of character in spite of being bastard born. He is mentally anguished by his desires to rule Winterfell, so much that he has multiple nightmares about it. He even rejects Stannis' offer of legitimization on the grounds that he has no right to Winterfell. (He also doesn't want to destroy the weirwoods.)
I think if Rhaegar wanted a saviour, he would breed one even if he were a bastard.
I disagree it makes the story of Jon much more interesting if he went all his life believing he was a bastard only to find out he was a legitimate heir to the Iron throne, not that it matters much but it still makes his story much more interesting and in a hegelian sense "dialectic"
Theon has a vision at Winterfell where he sees Lyanna in a blood spattered white gown, I always assumed that was meant to be a wedding dress.
@@RKB-2001 Well said. I think what I mean is, I don't see how it could fit into his story, or make it interesting. Not that it can't be. It would have to be a banger though.
I suspect it's one of those stories where he finds out somehow he is the heir. And he decides that it doesn't matter to him, he's just Jon, the bastard, and he just leaves for the North or something without telling anyone. He is allowed to decide who he is so he chooses to be his noble self that he's always been.
@@daboos6353 I did remember that vision, but never made the connection to the white gown. Very interesting. Although white and grey are also just the colours of House Stark, so it might just be that. Because I don't think Westerosi custom has you wearing white at the wedding but your own house colours? But it definitely could be a wedding.
As I explained above, I don't see how it could be useful: no annulment from the Faith, and Valyrian polygamy is not recognized in Westeros, and I don't think Old Gods have it.
Jon was being guarded by three Kingsguard members while a civil war was going on. Yes, Rhaegar and Lyanna were married at some point. Targaryen polygamy was a thing. How did Lyanna die? Reread or re-watch that scene when Cersei and Sansa are terrified and waiting with Ilin Payne during the Battle of the Blackwater. Not everyone dies from childbirth in Westeros.
4 mins only 5 likes my guy fell off.
No life
I Instanly liked it soon as I read this and was like waaaait a min… I see what you did there my guy lol 🤓
Why is there a nigga under every comment section of this poor guy saying "you fell off". Is there a meme I'm unaware of or something?
5 hrs, 2300 likes. No, he didnt
@@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215 he’s baiting likes lol