Trial Tube - Best CC 250 VS 300 / Non-Stop vs Stop and Hop!
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- This is going to create some major waves!
Having the first ever duel title video for our return and picking two subjects that are so "on trend" right now is very dangerous indeed.
Can you imagine what people may say? We could, so we did it. As always honest reviews paired with experience and "some" ability will always be the thing that separates our content. So we went wild and picked the most expensive two strokes and pitted them against each other as well as also getting to the bottom of the Trials rules argument. It's never a discussion.....
But hey! This is TRIALTUBE!
Stop and hop, just because I hate the endless debates over whether the rider fived or not. As for the 250 vs 300, of course we want a deep dive! Loving my own 250 Nitro, only one competition on it so far, but she is a lovely little beastie!
Correct, Stop and Hop under the clock is the answer. I will have to get the deep dive planned.
I’m new to trials, less than one year and I am just learning to hop in sections, though not reliably yet as you might imagine. At 57 years old, hopping takes a bit of energy for me but I think it will become easier as I gain efficiency. I’m riding intermediate level where sections are laid out with no hopping needed, but I really need to be on my game for tight off-camber turns to clean a section. I appreciate being able to stop and balance to catch my breath, look at the next line and go without incurring a five. As a non trials spectator I appreciated seeing the obvious skill required to stop and hop. As a new rider I can see the subtle skill required to roll a turn without hopping. Still, my rule preference is stop and hop as it’s more fun for spectators and I think will be a true game changer for my riding.
Amazing comment and thank you!
What we want? Nice! What about a breakdown of the techniques in a matter that non expert riders can use them to improve their riding?
Thanks! Just got my first trials bike at 63 years old. Beta EVO 200. Having a ball with it.
Great choice!!!
That is a goldilocks bike for sure. Just right for almost everyone.
Thank you!
Thanks for all the quality content and pithy commentary! Keep up the good work.
Cheers man!
Used to ride trials with you up Hanley many many moons ago. Recently got my first moto trials bike and been watching all your vids. Awesome vids mate very entertaining and learning lots. Keep up the good work
Cheers Tom!
Bike tests and comparisons are cool Danny. Love that kind of content. Testing the same bike in different cc's would definitely be worthwhile. Dive away!!
Will do!
Great comeback vid. Great to have you back. I appreciate you recording the thoughts that the majority of us current riders think about the rules. The gray areas are a blight on the sport.
No worries and thanks man! Appreciate the comment and support! Give this one a share where you can!
Iv not been in trials for 26 years my last trial was the 96 SSDT and through this video i have now got more of a clue about what is non stop and stop is ! Nice one danny keeping the sport alive and keeping us up to date .. Now to get on my restored 86 RTL 250S for the first time in 26 years and ENJOY the sport again and just chill !! cant wait for the next vid
I try my best and really appreciate the comments and don’t miss out on the episode about the RTL in our back catalogue!
@@TrialTube I watched that about a hundred times lol.. Iv yet to organise a trial a nice easy one to get me back into the sport i cant wait to do so but holidays are getting in the way lol ( good complaint aye ) .. Yes i can see you try your best and MOST of us appreciate it big time !!!! im old school but really want to learn more .I had sealy Hondas 200cc bikes in the past and totally love the four strokes but i road the six days on a Fantic contact K Roo ( BECAUSE IT WAS FAST !! lol Just keep doing the vids and don't listen to all the negative stuff .. Good man happy trialing !!!
Great vid as always nice to see you back keep it going please
Haha we try!
Danny, from the way you talk it sounds like ever since you did the first nitro review you have been apologising.
For what it’s worth as a trials enthusiast that spends everything I earn on all things trials; time and money, your programme is great. I enjoy it immensely and I think you are a natural presenter. The content is IMHO spot on. I really want to know things like is it worth putting tech forks on a factory beta and if this years ohlins shock is better than the reiger offering. As an example I put cnc calliper and brembo M/C on my bike and love it.
The two main topics you selected this week are on the money. I for one always wonder about will I have 250 or 300 this time and personally it differs from brand to brand but I was particularly interested in the nitro debate because I think it is more significant with FI. The section marking subject is a serious one and it is affecting trials. It’s something that needs debated and I think you pitched it right and also gave me a laugh at the same time with the subtle sarcasm around all the things we know goes on. Again on a personal note I grew up in the nineties watching tarres, michaud and Saunders etc and I think that period of trials brought immense interest with even non riders commenting on how exciting it was to watch. I think we have lost something since then so my thoughts are the more we remodel trials on that period, rules and techniques etc, the more popular trials will become again.
On the thorny subject of bike reviews I like the fact that I have an insight into where my money is going. There seems to be a strange mob psychology around some vertigo owners in that any negativity towards the brand is scorned, whether it’s true or not. I think your nitro review and owner concerns have post SSDT, proven to have substance. There are transitional anomalies in the model and I am of the belief when someone with the profile your channel gives you, highlights these things, the manufacturers sit up and take notice. Well done you!
Finally, don’t let people knock you in life. You can’t present anything to the masses and get conventional agreement it’s not possible. If anyone does actually hate you for what you do on trials tube then society have more problems than we know! Keep going. Those that don’t want to see it won’t watch and those that do will switch on. Jeremy Clarkson is thought to be by some, pugnacious, arrogant and cynical and by others intelligent, articulate and direct, I think he is a mixture of both. That’s just opinions but one thing is fact, he was the most watched human on any media platform you could find at one time. Take from that what you will.
Deep dive please.
Take care,
Rob.
Wow so well said I can’t type that much but if I could he took the works out of my mouth ! Amazing comments
What an incredible graciously received comment. I probably seem apologetic in regards to the Vertigo review after being scorned by the brand after pointing out the obvious as well as my personal experience. I really like my bike but like all trials machines they are still not perfect. It’s my job as a reviewer to observe and report back to my audience. Which I can honestly say are my number one priority.
I cannot thank you enough for this incredible comment and the time you have taken to write it showing my audiences investment in the channel and don’t worry it will keep me honest!
Great video once again
How about a comparison of all Trials brands 250 v 300 with you and a Clubman rider riding each and evaluating in each type of section
Thanks Danny, the channel content is entertaining and informative. Since most of us are gumbies… newbies… then the eternal question of which size needs to be addressed. Buy based on current skill level or future skill level? Buy based on current weight or future weight? Buying based on sharing a bike with mixed skills and weights…you see our problem.
I do and the best bike to buy would be a 200. Power for the future but not a 125. Holds value. As well as being a bike you can improve on always.
👍
Would love a deep dive on the 250 vs 300
si si
Great videos keep them coming
Cheers man try my best.
I was riding trials back in the 1960s when, of course, we did not stop in a section without a Five. From the standpoint of the spectator, the new rules produce very exciting riding. However, the pro sections are so difficult and dangerous that they scare a lot of potential riders away. The fact is that trials has not grown significantly through the years. For the good of the sport, I think it would be better to reinstate the old rules. So I'm saying that we have the option of impressing the spectator, OR getting him on a trials bike.
Great comment and thank you for taking the time!
As for “impressing the spectator,” this is what brings interest to the sport. The spectacle of the sport is its own advertisement. People don’t watch MOTO GP and then expect to race at Laguna Seca to start off? I think making the sport less exciting only hurts those that have dedicated their time to getting good and penalises their hard work. Just to make everyone else feel better about being at a lower level in the beginning. If new riders cannot understand that ability is twinned with hard work, then we all may as well get “participation medals”. This is the problem for elite sportsman penalised for the inadequate mindsets of self conscious people.
“When i was a lad” (granted not as long ago as your experience) my dad told me to be good I needed to work harder and not have the rules changed for me 👍
Well , I started riding in '79 , obviously non stop. It was hard to observe even then. Now, as Pete said , we are in the 21st century, the bikes are lighter, better suspension, awesome brakes , super lightweight. I still ride , am old grey and outta shape, but if I can use technology to give me a great ride , hopping and stopping, you know I'm gonna use it thanks for the upload, cutting edge as ever 👍
Thanks for the support and the newer episodes will be having a quality jump ike this as I have had a new camera for my Digital content company. So it will occasionally come out for TrialTube also.
After a pot of coffee and a 6 pack of Red Bull, needing a couple laps at the track 🤔💥🏆🤣
Haha awesome!
Love the channel Danny, keep it up mate, you're doing a great thing. and yes, lets hear a heap more about the 250, content we all want. as in some want to se it, some want to write awesome comments, some want to just give you rubish about everything. but they're tossers ha ha ha
Cheers man! Appreciate the support!
Would love a deep dive on the tyz v the 300. That yam ironing board would piss all over the vertigo scaffold
ive been waiiting for this onee! les goo
Haha sorry I got sick, hope it lived up to expectation!
@@TrialTube Yeah this was banging, keep it up!😁
@@Lupomoto thanks man!
Don’t forget to share though
@@TrialTube already shared to my dad : )
This and even the 225
I thought is was just us dumb Americans that couldn't understand "Non-Stop" rules, Apparently neither does anyone else! Just go back to stop and hop that way the riders can get set up for insane obstacles and do the amazing things we go to watch the worlds best do. I realize non-stop is harder in different ways but there is nothing more gratifying than clearing a rock wall wide open!
Don't worry we all have no idea what is going on to be fair!! Thanks for the great comment once again.
I'd forever argue that the task in hand is to ride the turn, not stop and hop as to me that's taking some of the challenge out. Having said that I only, watch I don't ride, so to be honest I don't really know what's easier and what's not. And it's a pointless debate really. It was going on when I did have a go thirty years ago. I still remember the guy asking someone if he wanted him to make him a cup of tea while he stopped and had a good long think about which way he was going up. If anyone asked me I'd tell 'em ride in the trials you want to ride in and don't ride in the one's you don't want to ride in.
There is always people saying that it is “easier” to ride stop and hop. Most of them can’t actually do it. If a rider has the ability to balance and stop and hop then that is a higher level of balance and ability. Which then a lot of the old school make the excuse that it is harder to keep moving.. As a rider i can tell you, that you learn non stop first and then progress to to stop and hop. It has always just been the polder generation of previous riders forcing their outdated views on the younger riders that develop the sport. I bet you if they had the ability to ride in this style on the old bikes then they would?
Low energy prices..😳😳
You got me there 😅
Stop and hop by the way ❤❤
Hahaha amazing
Great vid. Bradford club set out great comps. They are stop and hop allowed but the sections allow for those that don’t want to. Seen some clubs struggle with explaining to observers how to observe non stop. Never going to be consistent. People pushing out for a 3 in one section get a 3 and in another they get a 5 because in both sections they are stopped with feet down but rear wheel spinning in mud, but 2 different observers. 🤦♂️🤷♂️
Exactly not consistent
🤣 You might think you have been in trouble but , in the words of the carpenters, my mams favourite group, Its only just begun!!
Sounds about right!
I think whether a person hops or rides non stop through a section doesn’t matter. The person who nonstops has a skill. The person who hops has a skill. To say you can’t ride non stop so I’m better or I can hop and you can’t so I’m better is a stupid argument. You just ride differently. Clean is clean no matter which style of riding you do. FIM nonstop is just too subjective for me and it creates too much contention in the sport. I also think as obstacles get larger the danger greatly increases, forcing a rider to risk injury attacking a line when not lined up just right or loose points is wrong. It is not putting the riders safety first.
Love to see just freeriding comparisons between the 250 and 300!!!
Great comment and when the FIM changed the rules to non-stop the first time their excuse was for the safety of the riders….Saying they would ease off the sections. The they didn’t…Funny that.
Yes, deep dive into 250 vs 300 please
I totally understand the want to stop and hop, however the issue that wasn't discussed was the amount of time a lesser skilled rider takes to ride a section " Stop allowed". This causes loads of queuing, to the point at which many trials you can spend more time queuing that riding. Which is why went to timed sections, then back to "No stop" then to stop allowed. So a complete circle! The regs for stop allowed show 13 ways you can have a 5. Most not known by riders or observers, The ACU and the the FIM need to get a grip on this and have a definitive set of rules, which are contempory and don't cause queuing.
Stop allowed was the evolution of the sport through the years and this is the style that engages with the wider audience to make trials popular. The ACU and FIM love to live in the past and hold the sport back. Like they want to own it and not let it develop to its larger potential.... But what do I know? I only made something super popular in the last year or so....
The only nitro I've ridden was a 225 and it was absolutely awesome. Tonnes of go can't wait to have a crack on a 250. I've always preferred 250s over 300s even riding pretty big stuff. Less tiring for me
Awesome buddy!!
Yes do the deep dive comparison. @👍
The FIM’s non-stop rule is the most perverse, subjective and arbitrary rule ever conceived. The gold standard in officiating is consistency and that my friends, does not exist in non-stop. It is wrong to force observers to make calls based on subjective limits which are impossible to reliably and consistently repeat. An observer who makes a technically correct call opens himself up to potential confrontation. Along with riders, most observers are friends, relatives and spouses. We need to be kind and grateful to observers who spend their Sundays in the woods.
Absolutely!!!
Let me suggest a rule that the checkers can work with: You can stop as much as you like -- so long as your feet are on the pegs, and the machine is not leaning against something or otherwise supported. If you stop AND have a foot on the ground, it's a Five.
There is already a version of this happening for if you stop and roll backwards so it could workn
I'd really like to see a shoot out between a Beta 200 Factory and Vertigo Nitro 200. Trying to decide if I keep my Beta 200 Factory for next season or move to the Vertigo.
Well I have rode both and I know which one I would choose…. I have also rode the dream build Beta as well!
@@TrialTube you'd choose the Vertigo?
@@ADVLite I didn't say that..... Not until I get the chance to review one on the channel.
Yes. Take a deeper dive into 250/300. I debated that for a bit and settled on a 250 TRS back in October Unfortunately it is still in Spain as we speak so I picked up a used Montesa 300 RR. I like it but … would a 250 had been better and easier to ride ?
250 2 stroke waaaayyyy easier to ride
Afraid of that. The montesa hits hard.
Great videos, really entertaining! Considering getting into trials , but never even swung my leg across one. I do a bit bit of green laning around sussex / Hampshire on my wr250f, and have a africa twin adventure sports as a road bike.
Used to love watching kick-start back in the day , and fancy a go .
Any suggestions, would be appreciated 🙂
Richard 👍
Look up trials day based in Staffordshire you will love a day there
We agree Trialsday is a must.
Will do 👍
The 250 sounds smoother than the 300 and appeared to have a smoother power delivery in that particular section, do they have the same size sprockets as the 300 sounded like it could have been in a lower gear?
Same gearing different characteristics for sure
Tack!
Thank you!!!
Is it the video sound or is the Vertigo fan really much louder than other bikes?
They are louder but I like the fact that the fan sounds awesome! Had a Beta over-heat in the past so it’s a nice reassurance
I grew up dirt biking riding single track and recently got a 1987 beta tr 34-260 that runs great and am considering switching to trials. Trying to narrow things down and find more details of the two bikes im considering either the sherco factory 300 or the gasgas gp 300. If you could maybe give me like five differences of where the feel/handle differently that would help immensely. And someone on a forum was saying the gasgas engines weren’t designed to last but that doesn’t quite sound right. Thanks
Differences between the Sherco and Gasgas: (off the top of my head)
- head angles (Sherco is a more relaxed rake meaning stable in the climbs but hard to manoeuvre on occasion)
- Gasgas is better put together in my opinion.
- I enjoyed the Sherco gearbox and clutch (see my review)
- GasGas electrics are better fitted.
-(not a difference but..) both bikes are spainish so require some sealing and extra prep if you live in muddy areas.
@@TrialTube thanks for the info A beta is also an option but not a huge fan of the kick start and chain on the wrong side and want the tech forks. also looking into vertigo there is a dealer in the next state. but there is gasgas and sherco at the dealer here and the other dealer here carries beta
Looking forward to our ibex trial there in June
Awesome venue!
@@TrialTube always welcome 25th & 26th June if your around
@@lukehewitt117 I wish I was man! I have shows on the push bike or I would of been there 100%
Hi mate what’s the best starter bike around £2000 obviously second hand I’m 6ft 15stone. I don’t want to buy a new bike as not sure if I’ll like doing the sport but watching all your videos has made me want one lol.
To start at your size look for a used 250cc unit beta or gasgas
@@davidevorider2002 thank you mate
300vs250 on a brand you’re not used to would be useful to us the consumer.
Sounds good I must get my hands on them!
How about vertigo 300 vs 250 vs 200? Clubman 200 is a option etc
Clubman option is 200 by a long way…
Thanks
Super thanks?? 😉
Thank you!!
No stop v Stop, ok credit where its due that was the perfect section for this debate. I don't like sections where you have to stop / hop but if the rules on the day permit stopping then thats fine as along as the section can be ridden no stop. For me the sections are the issue , if you want a no stop observed trial then you have to have no stop sections. But, often riders think you have to stop until its cleaned no stop by somebody. Observers have to stick to their guns, if its a no stop trial then you have to observe it no stop and if nobody can do it the clerk of the course knows for next time that he / she got it wrong. What we have now is a sport that doesnt know what its rules are, its an entertaining farce. Best comment , purely from my point of view , goes to John Collins , he was chair of the acu trial and enduro committee at the time, the ideal solution is non stop sections with stop permitted rules. So the issue of how long of a momentary pause is permitted doesn't arise but everyone gets sections they want to ride. Thanks Danny, try the 280 TRS , middle of the road 🙂
The solution will always be to set sections that challenge the riders and let the sport progress. It’s the riders choice to stop (if they have the ability). Messing with the rules damages the sport…
Just have a one minute time limit. Done. Then of you do stop it’s your own time you are wasting…
@@TrialTube i dont disagree but where do we get twice the current number of observers from ?
@@glenquinn7561 ay? You don’t need 20? You just need ten sections. I don’t understand why you need more sections?
If you can hop , move the bike around and keep the feet on the pegs fine just make sure the sections can be ridden without all that , old guys cant do that stuff . I would only give a 5 if the bike goes backwards , that does happen quite a lot with the hopping motion !
There are sections that can be ridden without hopping, Intermediate?
finally
Oi oi touchy
How's about 1 for a stop like it was at one point in time . Hopping and bopping means sections get tighter so you can't ride them if you can't hop . No stop just depends on the observer that's doing job . For 99% of us it doesn't matter if they 5 you or not . The thing is consistence. Only an issue if one rider stops gets a 5 then another stops and doesn't . If their all marked the same does it matter if you get away with a momentary stop .
1 for a stop were the worst rules ever… Whomever thought that one up, ruined the sport for a generation of people (mine).
bang
Bang bang!
I really understood the trials bike language
BBBBrrrrraaaaaapppppp!
if u riding hard trails non stop is so much better in my opinion cause u dont lose your traction and u keep your momentum
If you are riding trails and not trials that’s called “slow enduro”…
@@TrialTube you are probably right thanks. ssdt is soo much fun
Who you are comes into it too. Witnessed that recently and it affected the end result. Shame really
Oh aye, elaborate??? 😜
@@TrialTube well I might get a Hey Up screamed at me
Do the deep dive
Will do when I can!
125cc clubman vs 250
Hi Danny
I have an artifact from the 2015 USA World Round in Rhode Island. If you shoot me a mailing address I will send it to you. Cheers George
2 nd gear beat
Non stop I think is more challenging I'm old school fiver
When you say more challenging? I can only let that pass if you can do the hopping and jumping style? A lot of people say “more challenging” without the experience of the ability to stop and hop? If you can do it to a high level and then decide through experience of both styles your preferences then that’s a fair opinion 👍
Non stop should be a timed section not non stop this will help
Perfect!
Great idea but at club trials in our centre we struggle for 10 observers never mind 20
@@glenquinn7561 why do you need 20 observers? 10 sections. 4 laps. 10 x countdown clocks. We used to do it at Biketrial’s (club level) and we had no where near the numbers Moto trials clubs get…trust me.
I think for a single observer watching the clock and the rider may be too much. If the alarm is loud enough to be heard by rider and observer when the time is up that works. Better solution Danny if we can get people to try it 👍
0, 5, 0. Its not even up for debate if you know and are willing to enforce the rules. And (off topic alert) please dont get me started on those stupid modern gate point based pick your own line trials ffs thats even more baffeling to work out whos winning. 1min 30 time limit. Stop allowed. 2 laps 20 plus sections. Common route red on the right blue on the left with an elite deviation in some sections for the experts. Nice and simple to lay out. Time limit keeps the trial moving. So yeah basically scrap the current set up. Scrap the top class at world level and british level and just have trial 2 level sections for 80% of the trial. The other 20% can be abit leathal so that bou can probe he is miles better than anyone on earth at this game. And while you at it make the ssdt part of the wtc calender so there is some sodding variety.
Great comment mate!