Manchester Mancunian: Most Beautiful Double Decker Bus, Ever? [UK Bus History]
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- In 1968, a new type of double decker bus appeared on the streets of Manchester, England. It was called the Manchester Mancunian.
Delivered to Manchester City Transport, and the creation of Manager Ralph Bennett and in-house designer Ken Mortimer, it represented a new type of styling that was considered an improvement over other buses of the time.
With it's pleasing proportions and deep front windshield, the Mancunian quickly became a favorite of enthusiasts.
A total of 472 were built, which ran from 1968 to 1984.
Interestingly, 8 double decker buses ordered by the New York City Transit Authority, and placed into service in 1976, were based closely on the Mancunian design.
See an hear the story of the Manchester Mancunian, one of the most beautiful buses of all time!
#buses #transportationhistory #manchestercity #automotivehistory #automotivedesign
![The Guy Wulfrunian Story: The Edsel of British Buses? [UK Bus History]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w4W-6MkAoZE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Guy Wulfrunian Story: The Edsel of British Buses? [UK Bus History]](/img/tr.png)
Will agree, this bus can almost be timeless, add square headlights and they would still look current in todays time, The ones sent to New York got the Chrome package, bumpers and wheels, really enjoying these videos for a line of vehicles we take for granted most of the time
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Round headlights are so much more pleasing in my opinion. That applies to buses and cars.
What a bus. As a Mancunian (person) myself, this bus was way ahead of its time, incorporating features well in advance of others. Its original colour scheme of white, with red bands, also marked it out from the rest of the Manchester City Transport fleet of 1968, the year of introduction, as the rest of the Manchester fleet were coloured red, like the London buses of today.
Good to hear from someone who rode those buses!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Two-tone paint schemes are always more pleasing when the contrasting colours are chosen wisely.
I love your passion for British buses. Makes my heart warm. And I even learn some stuff too! Thank you!
I'm really glad you liked the video!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
That bus design is timeless and it still looks "modern" in 2024. When I lived in Manchester my local route was the 19, later renumbered 169/170 andI would travel on a Mancunian from Levenshulme to Didsbury. Some years ago when visiting my mother in Manchester I went the bus museum where 1001 s kept and the contrast visually between it and a Stockport Corporation Leyland PD of the same build date was remarkable.
Yes, it sure does still look modern! Thanks for watching!!
Seems strange to watch an American channel producing a video about buses, that all have destinations that are only a few miles from where I sit.
LOL, the irony of life. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
That's what i always think! :) Being from Oldham originally its good to see some of these classics have detailed mini documentaries! I never saw them middle doors ever used in all the times i travelled on them though!
It's a really interesting video. Thanks for sharing. My sister was at college in Manchester from 1970 onwards. I visited her many times and travelled on the Mancunians regularly at this time, travelling from the city centre to Fallowfield. Most were in the SELNEC orange and white livery by then, but there were a good few still in the original red and white Manchester Ciy Transport livery. Only a personal preference, but the Atlanteans to me seemed a smoother ride as the Leyland engine ran faster than the Fleetlines, which were fitted with the much slower revving Gardner engine which did seem to produce more vibration. I don't think there was much difference in reliability as both marques had full service lives. It's probably fair to say the Gardner engines lasted longer than the Leyland units between engine changes. It's great to still see and ride on some restored Mancunians from time to time in their home city, which are run and maintained by the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport and the SELNEC Preservation Society.
Brilliant to be given a fresh perspective on the buses from my childhood, which I would previously have deemed rather mundane. Your knowledge and story telling is excellent. I can only add that the 'Please Do Not Smoke' decals were usually scratched out to say 'Fleas Do Not Smoke.' It passed for humour in Manchester at that time, and at my age.
Hello! I'm really happy you like my videos! What a funny story about the No Smoking signs, LOL! Wish I knew that when I made the video - I would have put it in there! Thanks so much for watching!!
I remember being taken on my annual visit to Belle Vue amusement park - and riding on a Mancunian for the first time it seemed so modern with it's huge windscreen amongst many other design features. I suspect that if it was operating on a route nowadays - only enthusiasts would notice it wasn't a current bus!
Oh, I think you are right! Must have been awesome to ride on! Thanks for watching!
Hello from the UK. I used to travel to school on these buses. They were lovely - comfortable and yes, great looking! They looked best in their Red and White livery in my opinion which was when the bus service was provided/operated by Manchester Corporation - when Manchester was a city within the county of Lancashire. They were very well looked after in those days - usually very clean. Boundary changes in the 1970's created 'Greater Manchester' (and a new council) which encompassed a great many of the towns and villages around the city of Manchester - this is when the orange and white livery appeared. District areas each had their own acronym for example SELNEC (as commentators have already pointed out) stood for South East Lancashire North East Cheshire. They all had orange and white livery's but I think the acronyms were underlined (underscored) by different colours. The livery changed again to the white, orange and brown with the creation of Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE) branded as Greater Manchester Transport. The chocolate brown at the base was intended to mask the effects of road dust/dirt. By this stage buses weren't very well maintained - often very grubby on the outside and I think the Mancunian had been removed from service by then. Sadly bus services in the UK were deregulated in 1985 under the Thatcher government. Various private companies were then created to provide bus services using lots of different types of buses and things were never quite the same. One such company was 'The Bee Line Bus Company' which essentially used van chassis to make mini buses. A far cry from the glory days of the Mancunian.
Wow, thanks for all that information on the Mancunians! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It's definitely a lovely looking bus and the colour scheme adds to the style
Yes, it's a beautiful bus! Thanks for watching!!
Addendum,one of my first public bu photos was of,one of the Mancunians on 5th Avenue! Never did get to ride on one! Ah,the 1970's,a most interesting time! Thank you! 😇 ! 😊
A practical design, designed by someone with more than the average amount of brain cells! The air - operated concertina doors appeared on buses all over the country, I live in Cambridgeshire in the east of England and remember them in the 70's and 80's. I was born in west London and moved to cambs when I was about 10 in 1976.
This leads to another great bus - The AEC Routemaster which my father used to drive back then. They used to have a wet skid-pan at the London Chiswick works, and my dad did that through his training. They used to load up the seats with equivalent average - at the time - human weight sand bags. Sometimes the bus would actually topple over, but to not a lot of harm - the flat sides would make an air cushion and it would hit the ground quite gently, not breaking most of the windows - but the sandbags probably did if they weren't belted in!
Hello! Thanks for the memory of your Dad and the Routemaster training! Thanks for watching!
I remember reading an article in ‘Buses’ magazine when this was unveiled. I had never seen anything like it It was truly groundbreaking and redifined what a bus could be like
Hello! Thanks for that very interesting comment!! Thanks for watching!
Really interesting video... showing my age, but I actually remember using them!
Really glad you liked it!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I was noticing the crest on the front of the bus,for GB I am sure, thumbs up
Yes, it was a beautiful double decker. I liked the version with the front lights diagonally arranged (5:04) rather than the ones with one lamp directly above the other.
I agree - I used to catch the bus to school (in Bolton, within the Greater Manchester Transport Authority area), and I always looked forward to this model. It looked great and the double door always seemed futuristic to me
Nice to hear that....Thanks for watching!
Even a bus , when the proportion is balanced , becomes beautiful 😂.
Yes, it certainly does! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Jeff,a suggestion! Liverpool Green Goddesses,DD Trams! A very modern design of the 1940's[?],later went to Glasgow,Scotland! Very interesting! Thank you 😇 😊!
Hello! I will look into those trams - I know there were two types of those trams in Liverpool - one had two axles and the other had two trucks with four axles. Thank you for watching!!
Absolutely love your New York accent!
Thank you, I appreciate that!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
ALWAYS the best ! The most informative best researched content on the subject
I appreciate it!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It took me over forty years before I stood inside a Mancunian. I used to see them come into Stockport as a young boy (didn't know what they were at the time but they looked space aged) but they were never on routes my mum wanted to travel so it wasn't until I asked to look inside 1001 at the transport museum that I ever got a look inside. They are quite spartan, but they are more spacious feeling than the GM standards which followed them and which I grew up around. It wasn't until GM got the later TN Titans that anyone seemed to bother with the interiors of vehicles and it was these two models (Mancunian and Titan) that contributed to my own love of buses. I'd also say that the NY vehicles were more inspired by the DMS Londoners than the Mancunian, another model inspired by Bennet, and another British bus adventure the worth researching.
Nice to see a video on my every day ride, back when I was a school kid. In fact quite something to see the Bus Route - 3A I rode on actually pictured.
Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!
Another lovely video from Jeffrey. I really do love his 'outsider's' take on buses of the UK. I wonder, as well as riding on the New York 'Mancunians', has he visited Britain - I think he would be like a little kid in a sweet shop, or a toy shop! My husband raised his eyebrow though, and wondered why he didn't make the obvious connection between the 'Mancunian' and the London (and South Yorkshire) DMS in the video? Excellent though.
Thank you, Melanie! I was there a long time ago, I have to get there soon to check out all that is new with buses and trains. Yes, maybe I should have mentioned the DMS!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You are very welcome Jeffrey. We really enjoy your videos in our household over here in north Derbyshire (not far away from Manchester!).
They looked fantastic in the MCT red and white livery.
Yes, they certainly did! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein
Thanks.
I enjoy your videos and have now subbed.
@@IN_THIS_DAY_AND_AGE Thank you!
Repainted orange in the 1970s when MCT became a part of SELNEC
I grew up in the Manchester area. I must have been on many of these busses. They took me to school They took me to work, they took me for nights out. Upstairs they were boiling in summer and freezing in winter. I guess we took them for granted but they were always there
Good to hear they got you to where you were going! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I know it's spelt Salford but it'd pronounced solford. As a former Manchester bus driver it's a pleasure to watch this video. I have many memories of the jafacake colour scheme for GM buses. Back in them days when I was young it was OK to smoke on the top deck of the bus
Great to hear from a former Manchester bus driver!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I'm from North Manchester, an area called Blackley. However, it's pronounced Blakeley, something non local TV and radio reporters often get wrong. You're forgiven here, great article
@JeffreyOrnstein my pleasure keep up the amazing content
Remember WMPTE (West Midlands) acquiring a batch of very similar buses in 1969. The 68 service which passed our house was chosen to trial driver only operation and we felt very privileged to have these super modern vehicles amongst the standard fleet of mostly Guy buses in the Wolverhampton area at that time.
IIRC they were the only double door units procured, subsequent batches being the shorter wheelbase single door ones.
Thanks for another fascinating video!
I'm happy you liked the video!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I was 9 when these buses came online... The video showed the 41 ( my school bus) and 53 ( visiting Gran bus). I'd forgotten about the translucent roof panels, but I think that these were the first buses with a periscope for the driver to see what was going on upstairs.... Also, for those that didn't know, SELNEC stood for South East Lancashire, North East Cheshire... Which soon turned into Greater Manchester Transport, around 1974. Thanks for these videos.
I'm very glad you liked the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I can remember the single decker Leyland Panthers, in the white and red livery, E reg (1967), they had a skylight half way down the bus, which could be opened to allow cooling air to enter the bus, as in those days, no buses were air conditioned. That was also a feature of the earlier 1965 C reg Panthers, which were in the old red and cream livery.
6:47 Nice to see a tour bus Manc plying the streets of Victoria, BC.
Agreed, we rode one a few years back,riding on an open top double decker bus for the first time is honestly different and was lots of fun
Was it sold again from San Fran? Maybe. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I agree that the Mancunian was a great design. I think, however, that you understated its legacy. It set the standard for designs that followed from Metro-Cammell, Park Royal, Northern Counties, East Lancs, and Roe bodybuilders. The majority of the PTEs standardised on similar designs. The London Transport DMS was obviously highly influenced by the design, and subsequently the Metropolitan, the Metrobus, and Leyland Titan (B15) all took their design cues from the Mancunian.
Thanks for the analysis!! And thank you for watching!
Thanks! Greetings from Wales.
It did look a lot like the Daimler Fleetline, which is my favourite bus. Would love to see you review one of those.
I'll look into the Fleetlines!! Thanks for watching!
I spent many years working at Chester City Transport, the General Manager there had previously worked as a traffic clerk for Manchester City Transport, he had the highest regard for MCT and its management. He was not too keen on South East Lancashire North East Cheshire Passenger Transport, Selnec for short, of which MCT was the largest constituent. Selnec was formed in 1969 as a merger of all local bus operators, Manchester, Salford and Stockport to name a few, the colour scheme chosen was orange and white, it was considered neutral so out went the local colours. In 1974 Selnec became Greater Manchester Transport and Wigan Corporation Transport was taken over.
Things all changed in 1986, but that is another story.
Interesting info! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Great post, the modern buses I travel on in Greater Manchester regularly are of a very similar design to the Mancunian, but almost exclusively single entrance/exit ones. Go to London, the vast majority of buses there have separate entry/exit, due to the much higher volume of passengers in the capital city using the buses. Manchester has recently introduced the Bee Network, shortly all buses and trams will be in a yellow and black livery and under the control of the local Greater Manchester Mayor. The move is now towards fully electric buses, 100 were recently ordered,. I've travelled on a few of them, they're quite impressive. If anyone wants to see how they're manufactured, there was recently a programme on BBC 1 featuring the manufacture of electric buses, presented by Greg Wallace. The factory was located in Scarborough, North Yorkshire. It was fascinating to discover how a modern electric bus is assembled.
Glad you liked the vide! Yes, I have seen pics of the Bee Network buses! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You're doing a great job Jeffrey. I have a Morris Minor Traveller, what the US would call a station wagon. Our club attend the Manchester Transport Museum every February, where all the Mniors in the area have a get together. Also, at the time, we get to see all the old buses and even get to have a ride on some of them.
1001 was out on the streets of the city yesterday as part of Greater Manchester Museum of Tramsport's 200 years of buses celebrations.
Awesome! Wish I could have seen it! Thanks for watching!
@JeffreyOrnstein Jeffrey, I can't seem to load a picture of it. However, there is a 1970's celebration soon, so there will be more running then. Will video them, which I can upload. All the best.
Double-deckers do look beautiful. But what I have learned based on my ridership on one, that the only flaw these had is that on many routes in several US cities, there are some places where the bridge clearance and sometimes tree branches are too low to clear. It would take quite a bit of work to redesign the routes and possibly put strict restrictions on them by telling the route planners what routes they can be put on and which ones they can't be put on. What St. Louis as a customer that tried one has said, that they didn't want to risk buying them and I don't blame them. Eventhough double-deckers are quite beautiful, but transit agency managers are worried that one of the planners might goof and put it onto a route that would go under low bridges and that would cause a lot of trouble and just about cause the ridership to drop so low that the route could close. The UK already has the overhead space that is built for something like this.
St. Louis Metro bought some motorcoach style buses that were strictly reserved for express routes and someone thought it was funny to put some of them onto local bus routes and the ones responsible did it and got in trouble for it.
LOL, interesting to hear about the St. Louis buses. The New York double deckers had the same problem but with traffic lights and trees. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
That to me is what double decker buses looked like when i was young. I'm pretty sure they were still in use in small numbers during mid 90s.
Thanks for watching!
Only today I was showing visitors over 1001 at the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport. It struck me that in most respects it still looks amazingly modern for a design which first went into service over 55 years ago, and I can well remember my first ride on one when they were new. The original livery in particular has stood the test of time, which is more than can be said for some of the current offerings, and it's a shame it didn't last long before the ubiquitous sunglow orange took over. It's very sad that after the superb Bolton Atlanteans and the Mancunians, Ralph Bennett having moved to London couldn't create anything better than the miserably uninspired DMS class, with an interior apparently modelled on 1930s Tube stock.
Wow, great to hear from someone who shows people this great bus! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Timeless as the Mancunian design was, I think a good case could be made for the SELNEC Standards being even more elegant a design -certainly the interiors were more welcoming than the rather clinical finish of the Mancunian. GMMT also has the first of those, 7001.
A great video of this iconic and my favourite bus. I remember riding on 1001 when it was doing its free pre service promotional Manchester City tour.
That must have been a great ride! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I always thought that the Manchester Atlanteans & Fleetlines with LNA-G registrations were good looking vehicles. You should also check out the MCCW bodied Panthers for Liverpool & Preston, Marshall bodied Panthers for the Northern Group, Alexander bodied Fleetlines for Midland Red (especially the SHA-G batch) and any Olympian with an Alexander body. I also liked the VRLs for Standerwick - elegant looking beauties!
Ok, will look into these! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Thanks for the video. For me, the Büssing D2U will always be the most beautiful one by far.
Cheers!
Oh yes, the D2U, very interesting one as well! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It's worth mentioning that SELNEC's sucsessor, GMPTE, developed the GM Standard bodywork for later built Atlanteans. It's easy to see how the Mancunian influenced the GM Standard and the design was evolved over the years with the final units being delivered in 1991. Throughout production many chassis were bodied including the Leyland Atlantean/Olympian, Volvo B10M, Scania N113 and even MCW Metrobus. The design was rather different to most other UK cities at the time, so would stand out. The later version eventually evolved into the Palatine 1 bodywork by Northern Counties, which was sold until 1999.
Hello! Thanks for the additional info - could be good for a future video! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You're welcome, I wasn't aware that NYC used similar buses. I have since subscribed :)
It has a more sensible amount of doors than most UK buses these days.
😂, you're probably right! Thanks for watching!
Always loved the older buses as a child and still do. In London we had the DMS Daimler Fleetline from 1970, with it's box shape and a development of the previous XA and XF class from 1965. Never sure, if I liked the boxey DMS. In 1975 my dad bought me Buses magazine with a Mancunian on the cover. It was superior in style to the DMS. A combination of style and livery I guess. One of those designs that are out standing. Found out recently they had sky light windows in the upper roof.
The NY version had the the DMS windscreen. F licence plate indicates late 1967 or 68. A scale model of the Mancunian has just been made.
The precursor to the Mancunian were the single decker Leyland Panther and Panther Cub. The updated model of 1967 came in the new white livery, with a red band. It featured separate entrance/exit door, semi automatic gearbox, suitable for one man operation, as virtually all single deckers were. These models had a skylight opening roof around the area of the middle exit doors, but no translucent roof, unlike the Mancunian.
Nice to hear your memories of finding out about this bus! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
As an extreme oblong box, the vehicle really is attractive.
Yes it is!! Thanks for watching!
The use of the name "Mancunian" was a revival of the name applied to a distinctive pre war Crossley bus. The boxy design (I understood anyway) was to facilitate the use of automatic washers, where "round bits" might be missed. This was the tail end of when bus operators in the UK could more or less design their own vehicles (London Transport excepted). When you got into the 70s we had the "take it or leave it" Leyland National, and standard versions of the Atlantean & Fleetlines. The livery on the Mancunian inspired a revised livery on my side of the Pennines, with the Leeds Jumbos, introduced from late 1968. A great watch by the way
Glad you liked the video! Yes, I may need to do a video about the old mancunians! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I never thought of them as beautiful, but it is a very elegant design, quite understated, but with the big windows made an impact. The proof is that they still look modern and wouldn't look out of place today - remarkable for a 50 year old design! On the other hand, the Orange and White Greater Manchester PTE livery (based on that first designed by SELNEC) divides opinion - I like it, but others don't!
I do like the red and white better, myself! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Ahh, my childhood bus the 106, 30mins from my parents' house to Manchester centre, cost 1/3 (about 7p). The current bus takes about 58 mins, costs about £3.50 (without the £2 cap), such is progress...
If you're elderly and a bit unsteady, front entrance buses are dangerous, my late mother fell twice and broke wrists when the bus started to move forward. When they were introduced all the enclosed bus stops were aligned for rear-entrance and people could see the bus coming, When the bus shelters were re-aligned that was no longer possible. One-man buses slowed everything down when each person had to stop, get the money out, ask for the destination, the driver issued the ticket and counted out the change.
Interesting to hear your memories of that bus line! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
As a born-and-bred Mancunian who actually rode this bus, this is playing with my mind that someone from across The Pond is showing love for these buses.
LOL! I always admired these buses! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I drove over a hundred of these Mancunians out of Queens Rd Bus Depot in Manchester between 1977 and 1987 when I left and migrated to Australia. They were great vehicles to drive. I preferred the Leyland chassis to the Daimler. Daimler always felt “tight” in the engine compared to the Leyland 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Great to hear your experience with those buses! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Go check out the Leeds buses built at the same time as the Mancunians. They were designed by Roe who were based in Leeds. Again they had both Atlantean and fleetline bodies the difference was in Leeds the majority were Atlanteans but both PDR and AN68s were used but the fleetlines were mainly for 1 garage so much smaller in number. They had the longer panoramic windows, dual doors, 33ft in length and boxy. The earlier ones having what I thought was a better headlight alignment (up to J reg) K,L and M were more like the Mancunian. But do check those out, a lot of similarities but a few differences too. Fleet numbers were 190s to 231 for the fleetlines and late 300s to 595 in the Atlanteans. You will see what I mean. Also shout outs should be given to Bradford and Liverpool who also developed their own 33ft panoramic and dual door versions too. Liverpool 100% Atlanteans but Bradford also split the 2 versions.
Thanks for the info...I'll look into those! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I liked the Roe/Park Royal ones that came just after, the ones that looked like they wanted to kiss you! I was very fond of those buses as a child.
I was born the month 1001 went into service the dash panel was typical of late 60s designs in the U.K. a lovely futuristic at the time design. I wish when ralph Bennett came to London transport the DMS was as successful ,as you may know if your born in greater Manchester your a
Mancunian ,the city now is becoming a Manhattan of the north it’s come a long way shame the PTEs had to go with the ill thought deregulation ,great channel 😊😊
Glad you like the channel!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
In reference to mechanics refusing to work on these buses, Glasgow Corporation ha a similar situation where they had an almost exclusive fleet of Atlantean’s and when they introduced Volvo Ailsa and Scania Metropolitans they threatened strike action as they refused to work on anything other than Atlanteans.
Ah, that's interesting. In New York, the issue was that most of the mechanics at the NYCTA were of Irish heritage. They protested working on a British bus due to what was going on in Northern Ireland at the time. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Mancunian is the name for a person from Manchester,as I am!! They had demonstration rides just before going into service which I took in 1968 when I was 10!! Also I think one of the designers stated about the design,that a 'Box' is an honest shape!! 🙂👍
LOL, that's an interesting statement about a box. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Excellent documentary ! I recall riding on them on a few occasions they didn't seem that much different to most of their contemporaries other than the roof on the upper deck. Yes they were handsome , I always liked the orange and white SELNEC livery.
I'm really happy you liked the video!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Good onya Jeffrey love ya videos, I've lived in Australia for 43 years but originally from UK, Great work mate and very interesting! Can I put in a Suggestion? I'm originally from Reading (pronounced Redding) in Berkshire, we had trolley buses up to 1968, I was a 16 year old kid with my camera on the farewell day in August 1968, May I suggest a future vid by you on the Trolly Buses of Reading? Not just me but I'd say quite a few people would just Love it! Many thanks Jeffrey not bad for a Yank! 😂 Cheers Mate!
Hello! I'm really happy you found my videos and that you really like my work! I will look into the Reading trolleybuses. If there's enough information out there, especially if it has an interesting or unusual aspect to its story, I'll consider it. My next video will be an Australian subject, so hopefully you'll stay tuned for that one! Thanks so much for watching from Australia!
Cheers Jeffrey, Thankyou for considering Reading and our Trolleybuses, I hope you will find much of interest?, As for your upcoming Australian project, Absolutely mate!, I really look forward to that! BTW I had to laugh when you were saying about the New Yoerk mechanics refusing to work on those Mancunian type buses! I could just picture the scene! 😂 "I ain't workin on no goddam limey bus" 🤣🤣 Don't blame em! 😂, Seriously though Mate, keep up the good work, you've rekindled a long dormant interest in the subject I once had, ps my wife is from Manchester and we rode on those Mancunians many Many times, I remember SELNEC by then in mid and late 70s I believe it stands for South East Lancashire, North East Cheshire if my memory serves me well? 😊
I like the square body shape that set the standard for all the way back in 1965! Not sure I'm into the deep windscreen, it's not objectionable though. Certainly a modern looking bus for it's time.
Very well covered feature.
Glad you liked it! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Nice looking buses. In my opinion the best looking rear engined double decker buses were Roe bodied Daimler Fleetlines. A very stylish design. My favourite front engine double deckers were the London Transport RTs or AEC Regent Vs.
Yes, those other buses are really nice too! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Wasn't the Guy Wulfrunian the first bus designed for one-person operation? Or at least designed _in anticipation of_ one-person operation, before practices changed.
Another iconic double-decker bus design was the MCW Metrobus, used by the West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive. I travelled on a lot of such buses when I lived in Birmingham .....
While some of the Wulfs couldn't utilize OPO, such as the Accrington version, It certainly was a bus that could be used that way, it seems. Thanks for watching!
Jeferry your quite getting into your English buses aren’t you LOL, another well researched and produced video, there getting better every time, keep up the great work
I'm really glad you liked the video again! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It’s an attractive bus. Give them credit for trying to make a mark in the American market. But as you said Jeffery, maintaining them was a costly pain since they were too different.
Yes, too bad it didn't work out better! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Our local bus in the late 1960s/early 1980s was a Leyland Panther, as part of its route involved negotiating some low level bridges. Occasionally a double decker bus would try to follow the same route, with disastrous consequences.
Ouch!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I think one of your pictures is showing a GM (Greater Manchester) bus In a sort of lilac, purple and grey colour scheme, minus its roof, it looks as if it was taken at the notorious low bridge at Hollinwood, Oldham,. Greater Manchester. Several buses came to grief if they took the wrong route (the old one) once it had been altered to avoid the bridge, which is no longer there, since the M60 motorway was built in the late 1990s.
And whilst I agree the Manchester buses are quite a handsome beast, nothing beats the standard WMPTE fleetline body by MCW and Park Royal. Particularly the MCW bodies. But being a Birmingham boy, I suppose I’m quite biased.
Need to look into those buses, too!
@@JeffreyOrnstein a google image search will probably do you, there’s not really an interesting story. They were a more modernized version of the old Birmingham bodywork design. Lasted in service until late 1997.
I was a student in Manchester and later lived and worked there all in the 70s. Manchester had an issue with slashed seats on the upper deck at the back so the "fix" was to replace them with a glass fibre panel - I wonder if anyone has kept the glass fibre seats for the authentic Manchester experience?
LOL. Sounds like the old fiberglass seats in New York's GM and Flxible buses. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Even better with Nottingham-style upper deck windscreen and single leaf doors😊
It probably would be!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Thanks Jeffrey. Yes an elegant bus and so revolutionary - at the same time that the first of these buses were delivered Stockport were receiving handsome but traditional rear entrance Leyland Titans. Their interiors of the Mancunians was much like other British buses of that period though they were brighter and somehow airier due to their large windows and roof light. By the mid to late 1970s, when I rode on them, they were getting a bit tatty and were prone to breaking down - which is probably more a reflection on the care they received rather than on the bus design itself. SELNEC went on to develop a standard bus which was influenced by the Mancunian. Alas today in Britain buses are bought ‘off the peg.’
Thanks for your memories of the Mancunian! In America, buses are always bought "off the shelf" and have been for many decades. Not much variety! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I'd say the Mancunian was one of the last buses to be actually designed by the operators, particularly as regards separate entrance/exits. These separate entrance/exit buses are now a rarity on any area outside London, the double door Mancunians ceased to be made after 1968 and AFAIK Manchester, from then on, only bought single entrance double deckers. Perhaps you could do a feature on the Leyland Panther single deckers, or even one on the ill-fated 'Bendy buses?'
The Routemaster was the most beautiful bus, or indeed thing in general, ever created. Londoners deeply mourned their withdrawal from service.
I know many do agree! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I rode on Mancunians all the time as a kid. The interior was nothing special really, the most you could say is probably that it used the available space well. Last two rows of seats at the back upstairs weren't upholstered, they were moulded in solid fibreglass as an anti vandalism measure. There didn't appear to be any kind of meaningful suspension system and riders got the feeling the only cushioning was from the tyres and seats. On the plus side they were very reliable (Atlantean had my favourite bus engine, the Leyland 0.680) and in conjunction with the transmission they sounded amazing. I have two favourite buses, the Mancunian (and later derivatives) and the AEC Regal V which I also travelled on a lot when I was a kid.
Thanks for your memories of the Mancunian!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The upstairs seats weren't originally plastic, they were replaced with plastic ones, due to repeated vandalism. I lived in North Manchester at the time, very few of our Mancunians were vandalised in this way. However, I occasionally took buses to South Manchester, they frequently had plastic seats, usually the ones going down Princess Parkway, towards Wythenshawe, to visit the Princess Hotel, no longer in existence. My local route to the City Centre involved using taking a single decker Leyland Panther from Higher Blackley to Cheetham Hill, then a bus down Cheetham Hill Road to the city Centre, only a few routes into Manchester from the north originally used the Mancunians.
The Mancunians were briefly used by Strathclyde’s Buses in Glasgow when western Scottish acquired several Mancunians and were leased to Strathclyde’s Buses from May 1992 until 1993 following a fire at Larkfield depot resulted in a loss of over 50 buses.
Very interesting, didn't know that. I would have put that in the video if I did! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You really have to do a video of the Leyland Atlantean it’s a very important bus, it paved the way for British operators to use driver only bus operation along with the Daimler Fleetline later called Leyland Fleetline after 1975, London Transport loved the Fleetline which the Park Royal body was their default double decker after their iconic AEC Routemaster ended production in 1968 as well as Scottish Bus Group who used the Alexander bodied Fleetlines
They say that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and I would venture to suggest that most bus enthusiasts have their own idea as to what constitutes a beautiful bus. The Mancunian was ground breaking when it came out, however I would suggest that 'impressive' might be a better adjective, especially if painted in the former Manchester City Transport livery of red and white. As for a bus which could be described as beautiful, how about a Roe bodied AEC Regent III, preferably of the deep windowed 'Pullman' variant - being from Yorkshire, I guess you could say I am biased!
I'll take a look at the Roe AEC Regent III. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Mancunian first came in the livery of white, with a red band. That colour scheme suited the shape of the Mancunian far better than the more usual mainly red, with a cream band, in the opinion of most people, it looked far fresher and modern-looking. It also made the buses stand out from the rest of the fleet, some of which were painted red, some were front entrance double deckers, which initially still had conductors. I went to school in South Manchester between 1964-71, my usual bus was a front engined, rear entrance Leyland, complete with conductor. Fast forward 5 or 6 years later, there were no conductors left on Greater Manchester buses, by then, all the buses were one man operated
I remember them well. Yes, they were basic inside….easier for cleaning I assume.
Interesting to hear that! Thanks for watching!
The London Transport DMS eclipsed the Mancunian in stylishness in my opinion. But there , beauty is in the eye of the beholder😂
Yes it is! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@reynardbizzar5461 The DMS?! Just a nasty box in my opinion.
they looked great when they first came out, but the windows and body work rattled a lot more than the older Atlanteans and fleetlines
Wow, wonder if it was build quality or maintenance? Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I don't know for sure but the windows and panels were much bigger and longer than earlier Atlanteans and Fleetlines so I think they just vibrated more
Whilst I respect the clever exploitation of the then current rules (in the late 60s) for long bodied, front entrance, low floor, mostly rear-engined double deck buses, the topic is beauty. Therefore, I vote for the AEC Routemaster, closely followed by the Midland Red (BMMO) D9. The rules 10 years earlier did not preclude rear entrance, front engined buses with conductors, and they were much more reliable machines. They did not simply look like boxes on wheels.
Hello! Thank you for your insights! And thanks for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein If we are discussing impressive younger buses, I recommend the twin rear axle Hong Kong ones, with air conditioning. My other real favourite is the Midland Red C5 Motorway Coach. They could do a steady 85 mph in 1959!
I think the Mancunian was of the era of Le Corbusier architectural thinking. Form and function but zero input for aesthetics. The liveries they were in flattered them. Other paint schemes would have shown them up for the soulless bricks they were. I lived in Manchester in their era, even the SELNEC Standards were a relative "improvement". For real style go back to the 1936-39 period of the original Mancunian when a fleet of art deco half cab buses in a Coca Cola streamline paint scheme were produced by various manufacturers for tramway replacement.
Major British operators pre and postwar had buses built to their specific designs by virtue of their purchasing power, notably London, Birmingham and Manchester, but as postwar austerity became reality Manchester in particular had to take "off the shelf" designs often with Manchester specific modifications, which with their severe upright fronts (needed to cram in even more uncomfortable seats) etc made the original ugly designs yet more hideous. I think Manchester's 1936-52 streamline derived buses still their best along with the 4100 Daimlers. After that aesthetics ceased to be of any consideration imho.
Thank you for your comment and analysis! Yes, I do see a bit of International style design in them. If only Frank Lloyd Wright designed a bus, LOL. Thanks for watching!
Sorry ‘Jeffery’ LOL
Hiya sir can remember western Scottish running a few in Jaffa cake livery from January 1991 thru 1994 predominantly oan lochside and locharbriggs routes in Dumfries Scotland very interesting wee channel sir ,I myself used to scrap buses circa 2002 predominantly ex McEwan's of Dumfries Duple bodied Leyland leopard and the odd ex western Scottish (unfortunately by then part o the evil stagecoach empire) Alexander bodied Leyland leopards McEwan's ones were death traps while ex western Scottish ones were like new Alexander bodied ones were far better quality than Duple rubbish oh well thanx sir and greetings from Dumfries Scotland
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!!! Thank you for watching from Scotland!!!
If you want an attractive bus look at the Alexander D Type DD and Y Type SD
Thanks, will check it out!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Its a shame how we’ve evolved backwards in some ways. Compared to the future before.
Oh yes, totally agree! Thanks for watching!
Subjective Sir - I think the Roadmaster (and even the Guy you featured earlier) look better...
Ok! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I watch your presentations with pleasure - I thank you for doing something so constructive for the community
Not this bus. But i remember a side corridor double decker bus designed to go under low bridges
Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It looks much like the Fleeline which ran in London. They were unpopular, slow and unreliable.
The London RT is generally considered the best looking British bus of all time, followed by the London Routemaster.
No doubt at all in my opinion - the RT is by far the most handsome and reliable too.
Oh yes...the RT...but I liked the original pre-war ones the best. I can say some words about the Routemaster, but I won't, LOL. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I wasn't so keen on the roofbox RTs, whether "pre-war" or post-war; to my eyes they looked taller and so not as well-proportioned. The RTLs were OK but I didn't like the Leyland rad half as much as an AEC one and the RTWs in addition looked a mite dumpy. My favourite though was and still is the LT, preferably not the "camel-back"; never recall seeing a Bluebird. I can recall a few journeys as a very young child in them on route 12 from Penge to Croydon and in those in the Special Fleet on Epsom race days, when I also had a ride in a Tilling ST in preference to a new RT. Also going in LGOC STs on route 75. Apologies for rambling!
I would also consider the Southdown 'Queen Mary' and the BMMO D9.
@@christophermatthews6972 Sorry but can't agree. In my books, the D9 looks far too front heavy with the set-back front wheels - the top deck doesn't look too bad though! I always think that the Southdown Queen Marys suffered in comparison with what went before, the Arab IVs and the PD2s from 701 upwards. All those acres of Formica - yeuk! Do agree with what was said about Roe bodies.
Aesthetically speaking, imo these buses and others like them from the same period, are the equivalent of architectual office block disasters, now being demolished all over the country. They might as well be an upsized shoe box with holes cut out for the doors and windows. There is barely a curved design on them, except wheels and headlights, its a concentration of squares, rectangles and straight lines, all with the use of 'squricles', as they used to be called, to soften the angles and deceive the eye into believing that it has some voluptuous qualities afterall. For me, it definitely hasn't. Its not a particularly ugly bus either, just very bland and inoffensive, and that's not enough for me to celebrate the "Most beautiful double decker bus ever...........?"
Ok, thanks for your opinion! Thanks for watching!
The video improved considerably once I turned the volume down fully!
Ok!
No, not the nicest in my opinion. I think the design is too squared off. The Northern Counties dual door Daimler Fleetline run by Cleveland Transit back in the seventies has echoes of art deco about the back end especially upstairs looking towards the rear. It was a low height double decker which made it perhaps a little off kilter but, other standard double deckers at the time, had the same rear styling.
Ok, thanks for your opinion and thanks for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Enjoyable videos, love your accent as well, very characterful.
A good looking bus but NOT in that dreadful orange and cream livery. The grey and red original livery was vey classy.
I agree, red was better! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
No, my bus is prettier.
Google 408 DBO.
OK, maybe it is! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Mob controlled mechanics ?
LOL, well what happened is that many of the mechanics for the NYCTA back then were of Irish heritage, and they refused to work on buses that were built in Britain, due to what was going on in Northern Ireland. So the story goes..... Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I'm really enjoying these examination of Brit buses from across the pond. Yet again, your research and presentation is top notch. Well done - and now subbed!
I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! Thank you for watching and for your comment! And thanks for the sub!!