18650 - Part 9 - Opening Gazelle Innergy li-ion battery pack
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- čas přidán 24. 09. 2017
- In this episode I will open a Gazelle Innergy li-ion battery pack.
This is a more recent battery and has higher capacity cells in it.
The average capacity of the cells salvaged from this battery was about 2250 mah tested on the Opus. And that's times 50!!!
Ebike battery packs from more recent bikes have higher capacity cells, so the newer the pack, the higher the possibly tested capacity.
Often these battery packs go faulty due to BMS failure. This results in battery packs with 50 good cells. - Věda a technologie
recently i have aquired a few of these gazelle batteries , in the small ones (printed 7ah on the aluminiums sticker, 6.4 ah on the pack inside ) ) the cells are grouped parallel and series but not individually measured by a bms, only at output and charging it goes trough a printed board. in the other ones they do have individual bms wires to each group of cells.
This is a Hell of a battery
I am currently also working on this battery. Replacing all the old cells with a new one.
How did you removed the epoxy? Did you use acetone? If yes, will it also dissolve the plastic? If no, how did you do it to dissemble?
Many thanks for that video. Do you have any chematics or handmade notice in what config the cells have to be insert in the plastic holders for replacing the old ones?
No, sorry only dissasembling the battery... It also depends on the type. Bronze have 12 cells less than Gold battery.
Hello! I have such a battery and I was wondering if the rear light can be used as a light (so that it turns on with the front light) or is it just for showing the battery charge? Thank you
I recently bought I presume an old type, with the old battery holders, the bms was potted in the back end and all the cells where at about 2.27 volts, I will have to test them to see if they are still good enough for a 24 volt e-bike battery rebuild (type brons, 40 cells, light kept flashing? No light when i got it)
One maybe two batteries where punctured while trying to rip off the metal strips, the rest I did with a dremel tool and a small grinding wheel to prevent any more damage to the remaining batteries, something to consider when removing the strips, the welds had deep spot weld div-ids in them so the (iron) strips where fused well with the battery casing.
The front and back had a (white) cover plate glued in with resin, in between there where the battery holders.
I purchased the same battery Pack as "defect" for €10,- on Marktplaats. It was also glued and watersealed with epoxy.
I took a gamble, and removed the epoxy on my drillpress with a small drill (4mm). A fixed depth of a few mm.
I was able to break out the BMS, and (with some force) press/tap the unit out. It appeared that all batteries were perfectly OK:Voltage=37V!
I will mount a new BMS and make a nice revived pack for my bicycle!
For anyone trying this method: beware not to drill too deep and touch the cells. The total length of the cellpack is 280mm.
Hi Bas,
Really interrested in reviving/repairing the Ebike battery, have a problem with my Innergy Gold battery.
Have checked the battery with my bikerepairshop, they tell me cells are okay, in the electric circuit/BMS is some failure they can't measure.
Can you or will you share every detail you discovered for research on how to find which BMS you want to use on the repaired Ebike battery.
Thanks for your help,
Leo_C
Bought two packs today having a real hard time removing the epoxy even tried to break away that aluminum shell but no succes so far
I left the unit on a simple radiator at home to expand the aluminium housing, it was easier to remove the batteries like that
Great tip, will try
you need the packs with zilver screws on the outside , the black screws are potted like this
Hello. I recently had an issue with exactly same battery, I used is as everyday - rode a bike to work, and then I just pluged the charger into the battery and it just flashed once and doesnt charge anymore. I thought the charger was the problem, but I just got a new charger and it turns out it have to be something wrong with battery, I have no idea how to fix it and new battery is around 400e so maybe you know that issue.
I have the early version not bonded I have removed the cells with both front and back still attached to the battery cells, how do I remove the individual batteries without cutting off all the wires?
Hi, Thanks for the video. I gave a Gazelle battery like that but my problem is that one of the three pins in the socket where you plug in the charging cable is missing. Is it possible to replace it by fitting a new pin? The battery is only a year old; would be a shame to have to buy a new battery because of single tiny socket pin.
It is possible, but not easy. First, you will need to find a replacement socket or compatible pin. Some people replace the connector by an XLR connector (what they use in professional audio equipment), but that means the charger plug has to be changed as well, and your local repair shop won't be able to connect his diagnose box anymore as the connector doesn't fit. Another problem is the fact that the BMS board is potted into black epoxy, so you can't remove it to acces the charging connector. A possible solution might be to dremel out the plastic in the other area where the backlight connects to. You will however need to waterproof that area after the repair. Again, it's probably easier to find a defective battery with still functional BMS board (and charger plug) and replace the back of the battery. Depending upon your type of Innergy, you might need to pass the bike shop to pair thet battery with the motor again. The white connector with the small wires can be unplugged. The others can be cut and resoldered. Just never cut 2 wires simultanously. Be aware they carry some voltage. There isn't much room between the back of the battery and the cells to use any type of connector for the connection. Make sure you don't switch the cell wires with the wires going to the connector at the other end of the battery.
Hi, when I remove the metal strips from the back of the cells it sometimes leaves a hole in the battery. Are the cells with holes in them still good or are they dangerous?
These cells are ruined. Never reuse them. Also get rid of them asap. (recycling Park). The holes make them loose fluid and could make them unstable over time. Due to speeded corrosion. If kept at home, put them in a metal container or in box with sand. I not always do what I preach... Like the box of sand,,, but at least I put them upside down so the holes are facing upward. Not loosing any extra fluid..
I did that too before, you need to get rid of it. The reason it happened to me was I pulled the strip outward from a distance. It never happens to me anymore since I started placing my side cutters as close to the battery as possible, and then twisting the strip so the welding joint is placed under 'sheer' force instead off 'pull' force.
Hi，How you get the battery pack out? b/c the video didn't show that part.
Normally I can slide them out by cutting away the silicone. In this case the pack was sealed with epoxy, so I cut it open with angle grinder.... Now I just leave these packs untouched... Too much work.
The rear light of my Innergy Gold battery keeps blinking (during ánd after charging) and every time I want to activate the display (and assistence) I need to disconnect the battery from the bike and reconnect it. Is there any software in this battery? This is what my Gazelle bike seller told me. He said this kind of battery cannot be opened and repaired. After seeing your video I wonder if that is true.
You can unscrew the backlight. After that, you can unscrew the back end with the charger plug. It contains the electronics (The BMS) and it indeed communicates with the motor. Some models of those innergy motors verify the battery serial number and will refuse to run if it's an unknown battery. The BMS board on the newer models is potted in black epoxy resin. I have no idea how you might be able to remove that. Maybe an option is finding a second hand battery with defective cells for cheap and using it's BMS board on your battery with good cells. Just verify that your battery cells are indeed still good. On the small connector connected to the BMS board, you can measure the voltage of every cell group. 2 Outer (black?) wires are connected to the thermistor that measures the temperature in the battery. The other wires are connected to the cells. The voltage on each cell group should be equal. If you have 3.8V on a group, you should measure between 3.75 and 3.85 on the others. If you measure in reference to gnd, the first group (4 or 5 cells in parallel) will measure 3.8V. The second 7.4V, the third 11,2V and so up to 38V. Just be very carefull not to create any shorts on that small connector as the pins are real close to each other. In best case, on a short, the small bms wire will burn trough. You don't want to know what can happen in worst case.
Hallo, ik zie dat bij de laad connector er een rode een zwarte en een witte kabel is, kan ik alleen de rode en de zwarte gebruiken? Met een 48 volt oplader? Ik wil het namelijk solar chargen wat is de exacte input voltage?
De input moet altijd hoger zijn dan discharge. Je moet weten welke cellen er gebruikt worden en daarvan de datasheet raadplegen. De Gold variant is 36V, dus je zou deze kunnen laden met een maximaal 42V oplader.
Hi Great series of videos i like them very much .I have a Gazelle bike but trouble with the battery the pins in the socket are worn any ideas what else these we used for ?
pins in bike? or connectors in battery?
well both realy
Did you dispose of the grey socket on the inside of the battery
I have 4 waiting to be dismantled, so yes, I have some. But did you already try to clean the connectors with a fine grid sandpaper? this could maybe solve your problems.
Yes i have tried this but the are quite abit worn battery powers the system ok but as soon as you put load on nothing happens
Hello, Thanks for your tuto, As I damaged that little 13wires female bms plug which we find inside the battery box ( used one with a few inches of welded wires on it is ok! ), I guess you might have some extra plugs around :), would you sell me me a few of them plug and temperature sensors and even, please indicates your prices for extra accessories ( front end ,empty battery boxes, back end and back-light asset ? ( my bike is a gazelle innergy chamonix ) or tell me some easier way to find at least these plug as I write from France ..... thanks for your answer.
By the way, to you and the all community... do you know of any cheap tools to check that linbus protocol which Gazelle uses in its master control unit, do you know of any forum or blog which deals related subject . thanks gb
Hello,
You have a nice video about disassembling the gazelle energy battery.
Do you also have a video about how to replace the cells and rebuild them in the housing?
Kind regards, Jan
Sorry, only salvaging cells for other project.
With the measures it took to disassemble the unit I don't think that you're going to be able to feasibly re-cell this unit. Best you could likely do is backwards engineer the board and try to find a serial connection.
Hi its me again can i ask another question please .Can you tell me about the gazelle battery is there four wires connecting to the back of the socket on the inside of the battery.
Roger Musgrove, 2 thick ones go from battery to socket to power bike. 2 thinner ones red and blue go to other end of case to charging plug. Also blue wire for?? Then all the small colored wires for balancing. Do not cut wires together at the same time!
Red and black ofcoarse...
@@Sailingandelectronics, I may be mistaken, but on 6th minute of your video it is seen only 3 wires connected to sockets (red, black and blue). Is one socket not connected with any wire? Also I noticed that 1 pin on the bike is shorter than others - is it because it's not used? Great thanks for reply in advance!
@@1014bnm hi, indeed looks like 3 wires only. 1 pin will not be used. Not sure on bike side (only open and salvage the battery cells)
There are only 3 pins used on the connector to the bike. Thick black is GND, Thick red is battery voltage (30 - 41V) and the small blue one is used for communication with the BMS controller (linbus protocol) It should measure approx 12V. The charger plug also has 3 pins. GND, 48V charge voltage and the same communication wire that is used to connect the diagnostic box to the battery and bike. The charger itself only uses 2 pins. The diagnostic wire isn't connected. The charger is probably just a 48V 2A power supply. The electronics to lower that voltage and prevent overcharging are also part of the BMS board in the battery. Most other ebike chargers will have a 41.5 or 42V output.
Hi, you made a great tutorial video, Thanks ! I wanted to start opening my innergy battery and try to replace the temperature sensor, as according to the dealer the temperature sensor is reporting -15 degrees, so the battery will not charge. Can you perhaps tell me where this sensor is located ? Is this sensor located in the BMS ? Thanks in advance ! :-)
On my battery, the sensor is glued to the first cells of the battery. It's connected to 2 outer wires of the small white connector connected on the BMS board. (The connector with the thin wires used to balance the cells.)
Hey.. so i have this battery and it works but i cant go very far until it stops working can u tell me what batteries are best to replace the old ones with and to improve my radius thx.
Hi Lissa, If you are sure your BMS is still working ok, and you can only do...let's say 30 km. than indeed your cells will have to be replaced. At Nkon.nl you get very good prices for a very broad range of cells.
Also, you can now buy higher capacity cells, so if you put in 3000mah or 3300 mah cells, you will be able to do 25% more distance then when the bike was new. (most of them had 2200mah original).
example for cell to use www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/sony-us18650vtc6.html
If you choose one, make sure you buy all the same, AND buy high discharge ones 20 or 30 A discharge.
PLEASE be aware that recplacing them will NOT be an easy task. This is designed in such a way that replacing them is extra difficult. It is feasable, but do not underestimate it. Make graphics when you disassemble, to make it easier when assembling. Good luck, and keep me posted.
Hey so ive realized its too much work to replace the batteries and i bought a second hand one and it works just fine thanks for the info tho ;)
hello, can you write what king of 18650 are they? what brand and some numbers on it.
Sony US18650V3 2250mAh (green) max. continuous discharge 10 Amps are one type used in these packs, there could be other cells in newer/other packs
How did you remove the epoxy?
Hello,
I am looking for a video about overhauling a Bike Battery Revision Multicycle Move 24V.
A video manual about disassembling, overhauling and reassembling this battery pack.
I would like a positive response back,
How mutch volta are the cells I measure 2.6v a cell
Is it possible to replace the original 18650 battery's with battery's with a bigger capacity like 3000 mah? Or will this give issues with the bms? And does the bms needs to be reset after the replacement of the battery's?
This. Any idea yet?
yes it is possible. The only thing is, you will have to make sure your BMS will not shut down when disconnecting the batteries.
@@Sailingandelectronics Already disconnected the bms. Is it uselessness then?
@@nl1bzw Hi, some BMS keep some charge and stay "alive". Others will go to factory settings. This all depends from brand to brand.
The batterypacks I open are not to rebuild them, but only to salvage the cells inside.
Hehey, die voorkanten mag je wel opsturen.
Hello , I have a question .... I have also a gazelle bike inergy , with battery like this ( gold ) and when I want to start the battery from the bottom is blind the led’s from the display... and is not working ... what can be ?! Maybe is better to send you a video to see ... but i dont know where . Thanks in advance and I hope that you will respond to me
Hi, upload the video on your CZcams account and send me the link.
Probably the BMS board is faulty... Most common problem with these batteries
Sailing and electronics hello , could you please give me you email address , to be honest I want to put up on my CZcams account but really I don’t know how :D I check also the power of battery and is ok. The battery have normal amp .
Sailing and electronics , here you have the link : czcams.com/video/abWtAV7C6rQ/video.html , thnx and I hope that you can tell me what’s happens .
Hello! Can Anyone tell me if the Gazelle Bike Controller is Rejecting Batteries with non Gazelle BMS? Is there "unlock" communication between Gazelle Front Hub Motor and the Batteries of this type? I dont care about Battery Voltage Level in the Display but I care about if the bike runs or not 😉
Not all Innergy models need pairing with the battery, but they likely all need the communication with the battery working. Otherwise, it will simply show an error code on your display and it won't give assistance.
Hello there I have a Gazelle bike too, but I need a battery and I couldn't find it in Turkey. Can you help me?
Nice
The most important part how you got the cells out of the causing is left out.....
And you seem to have a really hard time with the simple 4 x 12equation. You got to 50...
Unbelievable. Haha.
The middle 2 packs have + 1 lol so 48 + 2 and yeah he was a bit slow there
Hi, I got the same pack, 37v when measure, but when charging it says it is full but does not go up to 48v, what could it be?
Some cells are bad and the BMS prevents from charging more than 37 volts
This is 42v full pack, only siutable charger has 48v.
Where are you from dude I like to buy that case off u like your work dude
How can i make a diagnostic for the batter without having to open it completely?
Ahmad Qujo, bikeshop can put it on computer for readout...
Sailing and electronics i ran a test on it and its outputting 42 V but i still cant test it on the bike could this be a sign that it is fully working? Or it is not necessary that this would be a sign that it is fully working?!
Ahmad Qujo, 42v for a 10s battery is possible if fully charged. However, I doubt that the bikecharger goes this high. So cells could be ok. This says nothing about potential capacity however.
You could attach three 12V lights in series and measure the time it takes to fully empty the battery. Since you are not actually measuring the current, you can only get a rough estimate of the capacity. Let's say the lights are 20Watts each, then you draw about 60Watts. If it takes 5 hours to empty the battery the capacity will be roughly 5*60=300Wh or 300/36=8.3Ah
and the display?
Informatief. Nederlandstalig was nog beter geweest.
I need to replace the connector. Anyone knows what and where to order those
No idea, sorry
Bonjour ou trouver le bms svp
So 4 x 12 = 50...?
Yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaw
Hallo,
I have battery gazelle silver energi, and now is can't work
below some information I have.
1.when I turn on battery, the rear light is just flesh on, and the front light also on, but is just short time, and the display is on and showing Err01-01 as video 01
2. I dismantle battery and wait about 15 minute, and power on the battery the light is just flash on and off again, and I try to charge but is not response(light is not on), and try to power on again but is not response.Video 02.
3. after wait about 15 minute, I try to charge and the light is response blinking in the 1st Led about 12 time, and after that the last led is blinking and of, and I try to disconnect the charge and connect again is no response,
Please find link for the video.
drive.google.com/file/d/1n01KuMjnoMK6fD2i5q9R7avjyicZXa1g/view?usp=sharing
my question and need your suggestion, from the video, is the faulty is on battery cell or in electronic also,.
Thanks for your support
Hi, not sure about error code. You should have a readout at bikeshop. However, I have encountered almost no failure in cells, but almost all the BMS (battery management system).
@@Sailingandelectronics , Hi Thanks for your response and advice, I have also open the battery and check is cells is still Ok, and I check also single cell is also OK, did you know, how to check the BMS unit is faulty or not
I looked for a battery to sell
I need a battery
Not a nice way of opneing the battery, not a good job
Slechte reparatie video. Gaat er lomp aan toe.