And did it badly ..def steering rack failure ... that thing straight lined it to the wall .... bullshit about plank causing it.... worse sparking the lap before
I've watched the Senna crash footage many times. What I see is the wheels never move from their original position as he leaves the track toward the wall. I contend he had no steering at that moment. I hate he lost his life, he was very gifted and a great young man. R.I.P. Senna.
Totally agree with you. There's no attempt of correction, no tire movement, no nothing, hence telling us that he had no control whatsoever over the car.
There is also no big oversteer correction. Any good formula car driver would see that. There is the usual tip-in correction , usual for a slightly oversteering car but the car just straightlines the corner after initial tip-in. His car was not "loose" at all. I would definitely say the steering was lost. His head movement tells all for me. His hands are also moving in that brief instant to find steering because it's not there!
I drove formula Atlantic cars for a bit, basically the f2. There's no fkn way you could have steering wheel movement in 3.6 g cornering or any cornering! That's absolutely ludicrous bullshit that a formula car can have movement in the steering wheel during a drive!!! Atlantic cars do 3.6 gs also. Steering movement???!! No way!!!!
Thank you for this . Do you think Ayerton was becoming a problem . Italy mafia corruption think of the money involved . Maybe he was planning a breakaway .
The same thing I was thinking.. like u wouldn't know whats left turn or left movement with a wheel like that. Moving it back and forth, driver wouldn't be able to stabilize himself from all the g force.
It was one of those "am I dreaming moments?". I vaguely recall such laboured efforts to demonstrate a point from my memories of sharing a classroom with the remedial kids, when I was an infant in school.
PS surely the translator has something to answer for too? I spent as much time pausing this film to comprehend the appalling annotations, as I did just watching the original documentary. If anything I'm more confused now than when I started. On the evidence of this BS - I could conclude Senna died a result of dislexia ;-)
@@Lamster66 In regards to your second part about the steering input not being valid for at faster speeds. I do believe there is a mathematical function that models this. I've done a little bit of work into steering systems using electronic assist and the assist works by using assisted torque vs input torque curves to boost output torque, which vary significantly at various velocities. From that it should be possible to calculate actual steering output from the input torque at any speed. Then again I'm only assuming that this was common knowledge back in the 90's.
It was proven in the criminal proceedings in Italy that the disruption of car steering column of Ayrton Senna was the cause of the accident. Microscopic examination of the material showed typical streaks of fatigue caused by the application of cyclic stresses. So the reports showed, WITH ALL THE SCIENTIFIC CERTAINTY that the steering column broke up because of wear of the material, and not due to the impact of the accident. What happened was a poorly designed and poorly executed change in the steering column, which was carelessly welded to meet the pilot's request, who wanted to change the position of the steering wheel in the car. So Patrick Head, then technical director of Williams, was charged and found guilty of manslaughter by Italian justice. He only failed to fulfill its worth because of prescription. This National Geographic documentary and tampering with the car telemetry data are part of the fraud that is designed to hide the cause of the accident. The financial interests of Formula 1 did not desire that the directors of the teams could be liable for accidents to the drivers because it would threaten the business itself.
I am engineer and from my point of view: why would them weld additional 18mm rather than change it with the new part when the column is already out of the car for welding? that makes no sense. its a very important part, and as Imola was know to be very uneven and not leveled, why would they risk to create a weak spot that will cause failure due to fatigue?
I just don't know what retarded engineer would dare put a weak point in the column like that. Make it equal size man! Even with a nice filet weld or a radiused corner you still have a stress riser. That takes all the safety factor you have in it right back out again.
thats exactly the point dumbass, the guy just said that no one would do that, it couldn't have been the steering column. Williams up to that point nearly universally always had the most technologically advanced cars and spared no expense. Why would they just bandage something like that rather than fit a new steering column
I agree; since only the data that recorded the steering column actions were "damaged" and also that the only time the steering column has been seen moving that much was at the accident, it must be the right answer.
of course not but what if they planned to keep him out of the race because they were being paid off by someone? Not saying they planned to kill Ayrton, was never the intention just to keep him out of the race but it ended in the worst possible outcome
right off the bat what tells me somthing is up is the fact they say that steering wheel is designed to float around like that during racing conditions..especially on a f1 car??? I wouldnt beleive that unless I saw it first hand
@2:10 also, the cars had multiple safety devices that limited suspension travel which would not allow the car to bottom out the suspension. These included but are not limited to valves in the dampers equipped with bump stops and of course huge skid plates. Seems to me that it is pretty obvious the car never even tried to negotiate the corner. The truth is mechanical failures have killed many motorsports top level competitors and continue to happen. The world famous Dunlop family who are competitors at the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy have had to endure multiple deaths caused by mechnical failures on their race bikes. Most recent was William Dunlop who's motor dumped oil on the rear tire. His father, Robert, nearly died when his rear wheel simply exploded during a race and a few years later he was ultimately killed by another part failure during a practice session of the North West 200. These are just bikes which have a lot less moving parts, cars have the same problems with far more opportunities with so many more moving bits... Mechanical failures are absolutely common - the problem here is that the cowardly children at Williams lied about it. They owed Senna more than that.
The sparks are caused by titanium skid plates, strategically placed to prevent wear and damage. When the plank was introduced in 1994, this also had skid plates
... so not a seven minute explanation then? That's nearly 10 wasted minutes from my life that I can never get back ... let me wondering if the filmmakers had suffered some kinda head trauma ...
His point was the data had been tampered with and no argument made with tampered data was useable as a defense. The steering shaft had either partially or completely broken. The coverup is a bigger crime than the negligence of the racing team.
Steering column broke AND he was unlucky. He should have walked away from the accident, apparently apart from his head injury he was unmarked. These things will always happen, its a dangerous sport, all the drivers know it and accept the risks. Senna loved what he did. He may have only been 34 when he died, but what a life. Nearly 20 years later we are still talking about him. A great driver and a great time for F1. The 10 years between 1984 and 1994 were the best IMHO.
no offense, but did you just waste 5 minutes of my life showing clips of sparks coming from under race cars? you couldve shown 30 seconds of various races and been done with it
I thought "am I the only one watching who ain't so fucking stupid that it takes nearly 10 mins of random footage - just to highlight and make clear that one point?" Like you say, that's 7 or so minutes of my life flushed down the toilet. If they really had to show that ridiculous footage - how about some translation of the commentary? It's not exactly asking much...
Just so you know, you can skip these parts at your own will. There are some really dense people out there that might need more than two clips to get the point.
Hmmm, in 7 years no one corrected this very silly objection? It was crucial to show video after video after video after video so that we would not only see that the NatGeo video is just lying, but also feel the insult. The F1 "expert" on camera could not have missed this. It was specially galling when, at the end of all those other races and drivers, we see Senna drive the exact same corner with lots of sparks and no problem.
I always thought his crash was extremely suspicious since I saw it happen live on TV! Now in 2018 I'm finding out it was foul play, or catastrophic failure in the steering! The way he tilts his head is a "oh shit, brace for impact" head tilt. It's not his usual head leaning. I also remember it took them about 20 minutes to arrive to him after car came to rest!!!! Wtf? That's what I said back then. Very very strange indeed!
LASTLY: Other drivers in 1994’s field, who went on to compete in F1 during the 21st Century were David Coulthard, Mika Salo, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine, and two-time world champion Mika Hakkinen to name but five. As would Wilt Chamberlain in basketball, Senna would dominate today. Peace....
They are saying the steering wheel vertical movement was a result of g-force exerted on the driver's arms, which in turn was caused by downforce. Downforce on the car doesn't exert g-force on the driver - all it does is effectively increase the weight of the car. You don't feel more g-force driving a truck than you do driving a car, even though it weighs more. Specious.
The best theory I have heard is that the steering power suddenly failed in the middle of the corner. If the steering collum had broke the tyres and the steering wheel would become totally unstable since there is nothing holding them together. Both tyres and steering wheel would be moving when he moved on to the gravel which they don't in the video. Sudden loss of steering power would feel as if the steering becomes suddenly locked in the centre due to the gyroscopic forces of the tyres
Yes and I seen a video of one of the teams top engineers saying steering power just after the accident in the pitwall at Imola. Damon's was switched off before the restarted race, it's possible the extremely low ride height plus the full fuel load and awful bumps caused the power steering to switch off at just the wrong moment sadly. Though let's not pretend this sort of thing didn't happen a lot in F1 , they are prototype machines built on the edge of failure to save weight. The team did nothing wrong , F1 and Ayrton just got unlucky with its location, or maybe it had always been too lucky and got a reality check.
@@markwilliams5540 That would mean that Senna would need to make more force to turn, not to lose steering. I'm pretty sure that if that happened, Senna would have made enough force to avoid the wall, even if that means breaking his thumbs.
If the downforce was the reason, why it didn't happen during the qualification, why it didn't happen during the first 7 rounds of the race, and why it didn't happen with other drivers, and Shumacher was right behind him and with the same speed... he problem was the steering wheel, it was broken, period! Senna ran out of steering, not road.
it is odd though that on qualifying laps sienna's car sparked(touched the ground) right at the instant he veered off the track. But by the sounds of how it all played out it seems like it was the steering column.
The bottoming out sparks are also seen/used/referenced in the 1992 Super Nintendo Game, F1 ROC: Race of Champions/Exhaust Heat...very common in F1 at the time Nat Geo
I agree. The Nat geo version were never gonna make a doc that blames williams, The williams team would sue the hell out of them. One thing we have learned over the last couple of weeks is that anything can happen in motor racing. Sometimes we will never truly know why accidents happen. The fact that he went sideways going round tumborello means that aside of the theory suggesting the faulty streering colunm was to blame, he was already in serious trouble.
As a Williams F1 fan i admit Williams F1 & NatGeo got it wrong and the steering colume did fail with bad enginearing from metal fatigue......Senna's still my Hero.
What you CAN see is that Senna's car stopped steering. The wheels did NOT turn, the car moved in a straight line. That is something the eye can see clearly. No race driver would prefer driving in to a wall rather than spinning and not putting it into the wall period. Human reaction.
When the steering column was extended there was a longer lever in the hands of the drive relative to the fulcrum bearing ( support bracket and the bearing carrier).
For the 1994 F1 Season, the FIA also banned active electronics Anti-locks Brakes, Traction Control, along with Active Suspension. The governing body wanted to drive costs down as R&D costs spiral to heights that would blow anyone's mind.
he isn't saying that they cant bottom out around a corner he is showing that it is possible to still hold control of the car while the suspension is fully compressed and there is contact between the car and the track surface.
Ex-F1 pilots (Prost included) remain cautious on Ayrton crash. They all agree this is a mechanical failure. MIchael Schumarer who was just behind him saw Senna's car bottomed just before Ayrton Senna's crash.. I was myself watching the GP on TV direct live when Ayrton crashed this day...One has to be aware anyway about the speed Ayrton was driving. As far As I remember, he was going 270 km/h, which means, 270 KM / (60 mn x 60 seconds), so 270 / 3600 seconds, so he was making 75 meters per second... this means that if he sneezed once while closing his eyes, he had already run 75 meters...Bear in mind any consequence of that speed...At this speed the slightest movement is amplified...If you react 2 seconds too late, you made 150 meters and you are in the wall or out!!! Bear this in mind
@arhavlisj I second that I 100% appreciate this video and the information you have dropped in there is bang on valid points, the truth is , i don't think were ever going to know the truth about this incident, if there was someone (cough cough williams) responsible then its been covered up well, and the rest is history, he will always be remembered as a king in motorsport a true legend
The only comment on the sparks worth noting is that it seemed the Williams was riding lower than a few of the other front-runners, probably attempting to compensate for suspicious handling. I don't think Schumi has as much sparks
It looks to me like both the OP AND the documentary are right - F1 cars have a tub which the cockpit sits in. That tub hits the ground, you WILL partially or completely cut off the airflow, which creates a temporary "stall" in the downforce wing due to disrupted airflow. The thing is, the "stall" is *momentary* - you don't lose control, you DO lose speed. A lot of times, that isn't harmful. That might even be helpful at times, such as when slowing down for a curve; the "stall" will quickly cause speed loss, acting as another brake, then it will resolve itself when accelerating through the curve. I can see the momentary loss of traction due to downforce stall causing a problem, say, in rainy conditions, but not when the track is dry and traction is at its peak. Downforce stall didn't cause this accident.
As well as disrupting the airflow & reducing the downforce, if the tub hits the road, part of the weight of the car is momentarily supported by the tub ..... & less by the tyres.... which means less grip. Senna was already pushing the limit of grip so the car would tend to travel in a straight line.
also, just because the airflow underneath the car disappears because its touching the ground does not mean the downforce is gone, the car suspension is still compressed downwards.
It was said Senna needed a longer Rod so why dont make a proper one instead. I would'nt approve of something if I have to drive that beast afterwards. dont get why Senna was ok w/ something like that to begin with
Sennas car was bottoming out more, the sparks are caused by the initial impact of the car against the ground. in the race senna would have been carrying approx 60 kg more fuel, not to mention colder tyres from the saftey car previous, you can see from the sparks videos youve sent, particuarly of Senna in brazil that the back end was wanting to step out - exactly what happened in Imola.
It doesn't matter where on the bottom of the car it bottoms out, it could happen at the front back middle of the car, doesn't really matter, the air acts like a fluid, and so, if there's no way for the fluid to travel in the right path underneath the car then the area of low pressure is lost, hence the downforce is lost. When they show the Williams and Senna at Hockenhiem, you'll notice the sparks are NOT being caused by the floor, but the front wing.
Strange place for when a steering column snaps - when in straight-ahead position. Putting aside the modification, had it snapped going around a corner, the stress and strain imposed would have been sufficient explanation.
Lengthening the steering column would put more twisting stress on the column. The smaller diameter section welded in would be less capable of handling the torque as well unless it was thicker in wall section...seems like the cause to me..can't believe Williams actions hiding evidence, it is despicable. Hope your listening Frank Williams
Frank Williams didn't have anything to do with the technical side , he's just the owner money man. Patrick Head along with Adrian Newey were the technical men. I wouldn't allow this to take place on any racing car ,I just wouldn't risk it for so little time and expense in a money rich world of f1.
just adding showing cars from the 1986 season bottoming out those cars had titanium skid blocks to stop the cars fully bottoming out and keeping downforce 1992 williams Fw14 mansells car those were turning vanes designed to push air around the sideskirts towards the rear wing adding downforce plus that car was fitted with active suspension so would always ride at the prime suspension settings
And it also has a lot to do with the camber of the road itself, so if the road is sloped and they turn and the camber is the same as the tilt in the car when it bottoms out it would infact be flat
Modern cars still spark as well, and it looks awesome at the night races. Although they now have the wooden plank added to the bottom after Senna's crash.
What I have always missed is seeing the car trying slow down, was there any evidence of Senna braking? So the most pressing thing to me is: Was the black box data tampered with?
As you watch the original footage you can see that the front wheels are not turning as he's supposed to be going to a corner steering system problem and he didn't die of a heart attack to me it looks like the steering wheel job was poorly done causing the metal fatigue and then snapping in two they used small pipe then the original weld jobs look good the bearing support should have been moved to?
Was this the same movie that NBCSN re-ran the night before this year's Monaco GP? I remember the one I saw left me in an emotionally drained state for about 30 minutes after seeing it, and I remember being sickened at how very upbeat Samba music was playing during the closing credits.
It said they measured a TORQUE force on the column up to impact. That has nothing to do with the position sensor you mentioned, and DOES guarantee that the column was at least partially functional (it could still be limiting torque, if it was plastically failing at the time, but you could generate NO torque if it was completely failed). You are comparing apples and oranges. My question would have been was the torque in the correct direction and reasonable for that location on the track compared to previous laps, or was it SIGNIFICANTLY less?
And to add on to the sparks part of your explanation. These cars were running "Active Suspension." The drivers were taking advantage of every bit performance by lowering the cars in the high speed sections to increase the car's cornering performance at the push of buttons on the steering wheel.
Active suspension was banned by this time. It was outlawed at the end of 93. All these cars had passive suspension, that's partly the reason they bottomed out alot.
That's correct. But I don't see the Interlagos track as one which has more track elevations. If you watch races from back them, most tracks had elevations and mostly the "road" tracks (Detroit, Phoenix, etc).
Bottoming out is harmless. F1 cars since 1982 don't use ground effects. Only diffusers are allowed, but even they seem to utilize air which i schanneled above the skidplate - watch?v=xd4remhW0J8&NR=1 Thanks for the video, it was about time someone tackled the faulty natgeo mocumentary.
the lower the car, the less air there is. but if you were to blow air at a scale, the quicker moving air would have more force depending on the amount of air involved.
chance he would have been on the absolute top, maybe even the best, today as well if he had driven today. You see this in every sport, the new are performing better or just going faster, than the previous generations, and it's because of those previous generations they can do this. It doesn't mean the actual raw talent is better, it's just got more to build on from those who has done it before them to go even further.
And what about the the fact that there was debris after the start crash, that could have been picked up by senna, causing a punctured right front wheel, causing the car go straight (look at Nascar crashes when the right front blows, car goes suddenly straight in same way!). And also a puncture would cause the car to bottom/hence the sparks. I don't hear this option. And for example look at the Ralf Schumacher crash at Indianapolis 2004, which was also caused by debris, so debris can cause a puntcture for sure.
@hermankatnip He didn't go sideways and he didn't slide. What happens in steering failures on corners is exactly what happened to him - the car sharply veers away from the apex to the outside for a second or less, after which it goes in a straight line. There is absolutely no sign of instability.
Another obvious thing not mentioned: cornering with downforce only works when tyres make contact. If the car's bottom touches the ground so hard that it can disrupt airflow, chances are wheels will loose contact.
Looks like the steering column cracked that 70% and he had no steering, the steering column was just hanging on with the last 30% allowing the movement of the wheel and broke the rest of the way when he hit the wall.
Ever since, my first guess has always been the too low ride height. These cars compared to the F1 cars today are still comparably low in downforce. F1 cars in Senna's time are still unstable and the car bounces like crazy. My guess is that, that one bounce may have deflected the car upwards at MOST crucial, painful, tragic moment -- at the Tamburello corner... It simply was a very painful timing... Of all times, the car bounced just when it was taking the corner at very high speed.
When a car produces sparks, they always are at the BACK OF THE DIFFUSER! If the back of the diffuser reaches the ground, it does not disrupts the flow of the air at all, because the back is elevated to "suck" the air out from bellow the car. Seeing sparks does not mean that the head of the diffuser reached the ground. On the FW15 it's nto the diffuser that reaches the ground but the air wents attached behind the front wing. The accusation here fails (again).
Really? That's a shame... but hey, I think I've seen some transmissions from Speed Channel from 1994. Maybe I'm wrong. And Senna is the best driver of all times ;) the more you learn about the man, more you feel fascinated by his skills on the track (that sometimes seemed unreal) and maybe even more by his depth of character. He was a really brilliant intellect.
Critics-regardless of the sport-who hold your point of view, regarding the superiority of "Today’s” athlete when compared with athletes of an earlier period involved in the same discipline, almost always fail to cogitate the athlete of the past participating-in every aspect-of “Today’s” competition; practice, preparation, and, in this case, F1 racing. Implying Senna wouldn't be competitive, with the same training, technical, and physiological tools “Today’s” drivers get, is just plain wrong.
I understand that it is very unlikely that the car bottoming out would completely stop airflow under the car, but the car was probably very close to its limit of grip and even a reduction in downforce caused by a reduction in airflow could have caused the car to go out of control
Well I've read all the comments and watched all of these videos except number 5 where is it? My opinion. He doesn't spin, or fishtail as he comes into the corner. His front wheels don't move at all to the left to exit the corner, it looks like he has huge under steering. My opinion steering column failure. Williams had a shit car that year and they took those boxes out and fried those two chips because the info pointed to their design failures thus making them liable to have their arses sued off them and the hate of Brazil and the F1 fans world wide.
The sparks come from the barge board that runs down the centre of the car from about the drivers knees to the end of the engine block, they sit normaly a few mms lower than the rest of the under tray, if you had sparks from changing gears then ya gearbox is screwed you would be going no where fast. Im sure the steering broke as before impact you see him steering left but the front wheel is pointing slighty right.
Its obvius that steering column had broke. Lets turn the logic on and talk about it. When you driving a normal car in normal situation and see some opstical on you way, what would you do, exactly, you turn your steering wheel to the oposit side and try to avoid it. Maybe its me, but Senna is the greatest driver and he knew the principes of many cars of those days, and braking hard its not the answer to the situation that he got into, he must turn the wheel, to maintain the trajectory of the circuit, but he could not do it. Why? Because of the downfors, ye ye, we all believe it. RIP SENNA
In the previous two seasons, Senna had gotten used to ABS and traction control, and become much better at using those driver aids, and more dependent on them, than most other drivers. In this season, driver aids were banned, which was part of why Senna's performance was so much worse. It's possible in an emergency that he reverted to full braking while steering, allowing the car to modulate the braking, but the car was no longer able to do that.
Warren Dew have you ever played racing sims? Have you ever drove and had to slam your brakes in a car with no ABS? Do you know what happens? You go completely straight...BUT you do turn the steering wheel don't you? Do you see the wheels turning into the corner in the crash video? Because I don't.
I've driven cars all out on and off the track. If you are smart, you absolutely do not turn the steering wheel while the car is airborne - even if you have ABS and traction control, since those don't do much while you're in the air. And when you do have grip, you don't turn the wheel more than you can while retaining the grip - an amount which would be almost invisible in this instance. Yes, an average street driver who didn't know how to handle a skid would panic and turn the steering wheel to the max, making a crash assured. Senna was not in that category.
Warren Dew completely agree. But the wheels were straight, the car went straight. At this kind of level of driving, an F1 pilot would certainly prefer to hit the barrier at a larger angle rather than head on. There's no clear evidence of losing control, the car just seems to exit the bend straight into the wall.
The car had lost grip and was basically airborne for the straight segment. The wheels did turn left at the last moment after he regained grip, but that's past the end of the tape shown in this video, and it was too late to affect the car's track much. Unfortunately I can't find the video where I found that to be more visible. Keep in mind that if the suspension piece hadn't gone through Senna's head, he'd have survived pretty well.
what id senna himself suffered a problem, maybe he passed out or had a stroke. we all saw that a day before he wasn't looking alright and troubled. maybe he was hiding something. i say that because i lost my cousin last week and doctors said he had no stroke or anything his heart simply stopped.... strange life
I think he just bothered to do so (showing lots of footage) to leave no room for discussion on the issue. We can see lots of cars from 87 up to 94 touching the ground and producing sparks in the exact same way.
1/2 In first place that should've been modified as well. Leaving it as it was increased the load onto the modified steering column. It is surprising that people of this kind a expertise could've overlooked something like that. It is clear that no matter what steering angle driver applies the wheels remain dead straight. Which in other turn is quite normal as that is due to the wheel alignment. In my view there was no connection with the steering rack.
1987 the Tamburello was not partialy reasphalted in sections like in the '94, here infact the cars thouched the ground much less than in the Senna crash. Also, we don't have forget that the final decision about the suspenction set up is taken by the driver and in his case was extreme. Probably without the reasphalt xections was a right set up but is clearly visible that when the FW16 loose the grip in the exactly bump and shawer of sparks istanct, not one meter less no one meter more and this can't be just an coincidence. Many says that the Williams teory of the bump and followed pendulum effect is a fake, but this movment is clearly visible in one of the many on boards a lot enlarge. The Senna correction comes so fast and almost unvisible becouse he was at 312 km/h and in the part where the great corner is more hard, but the his reaction was not sufficent becouse was too fast and loose the grip at this speed not allowed to the driver to recovery the right line ..
Dont know mate. I do agree that some people have zero idea of how or when music should be used. Dont remember the ending too much. Was probably too messed up to notice.
Actually, Senna was THE first driver to hire his own fitness coach and trained incredibly hard in order to drive as he did. He was in pursuit of every advantage he could gain and the area of fitness was on of which he knew he could separate himself from other drivers. (research next time before making such an ignorant comment)
his head angle shows commitment to the corner. the wheels don't commit to the wiggle used to re-angle the car to the apex. mechanical failure for the car. big ethical failure for the industry. Dollars speak while people are silenced.
I saw the race. I think Senna was just ahead of Damon Hill whose camera was showing Senna's car. On the straight, just before the Tamburello, one sees a flying object out of Senna's car bottom to the right of Damon Hill's car. It was a block like object or something (may be a pipe piece but so fast it looked like a block). That ensured Senna could not turn in. Just observe the race video & the section from Damon Hill's car when you will see an object fly out of Senna's car.
The uploader states that a potentiometer was in place above the break (steering wheel side) - thus if Senna had been twisting the steering wheel to the left, and the column broke then you'd see a spike when it broke, given the amount of force Senna was using to maintain the left turn then you'd have seen the data spike when he didn't have the car fighting him anymore.
If he lost the rear end I'd think that slowing 100km/h would be enough to regain some control if the steering was working. Further, the computer data showed no compensation that you claim. If he had"lost it" with oversteer and compensation, chances are he wouldn't go off in a straight line.
Downforce cannot be gained by a low pressure - it is gained by the higher pressure. Therefore if the car bottoms out there is no pressure underneath it and downforce is maximum. The new drag caused by friction would increase the grip on the road and the car would both slow and turn as dictated by the steering front wheels. The new drag would decrease the tendency to go sideways and dramatically slow the car. These explanantions by "experts" are reminiscent of those for the official report on 9/11 and the death of a princess - all commion engineering fallacies used to convince an uneducated public and maintain a criminal activity. An ex - spurt is a has been drip, under pressure.
I think you got it wrong. The car's bottom (low ride height) forces air to travel faster which means air with a lower pressure; that generates "inverse" lift sucking the car into the ground. However It's definitely true that if this bottom effects were to be canceled, the car still has wings generating downforce and this is omitted in the video.
Howshallwesay Air can travel faster: "Bernoulli's principle states that within an airflow of constant energy, when the air flows through a region of lower pressure it speeds up and vice versa" I never used the 'equal transit time' argument, on wikipedia under that subject it says "[…] Although it is true that the air moving over the top of a wing generating lift does move faster, there is no requirement for equal transit time. […]".
I first learnt about the aerodynamic lift principle using Bernouli's Principle when I was about 17 years old. I am now 65. In between I learnt to sail. During that time I discovered that the lift produced by a sail is the same as that produced by a wing. But there is no difference in distance round the inside and outside of a sail. Therefore no change in velocity. Also a propeller does the same as a wing, though is greatly curved to reduce it's length, but it's purpose is to direct air backwards, producing an equal and opposite reaction called thrust. An aircraft wing directs air downwards to create lift. It is the air bearing down on the car wing that creates downforce, not the air under the wing creating "suction". As I previously stated work cannot be done on a surface by the inferior force, i.e. low pressure. Next you will tell me that warm air rises, despite Newton's 1st Law of Motion.
please, everybody, send this video to nat geo website ! they should realise that F1 fans are not dumb to believe theire lies ! I won't believe waht Nat Geo says any more. Medias are corrupted !
Bernoulli's Principle may apply in the confines of the gap between the car and the track, but do not apply in the case of a downforce wing, where the air is not between two surfaces. Here I believe we have Newton's 3rd Law of Motion which is equal and opposite reaction caused by deflection of air upwards
+Howshallwesay Somewhat misleading. It's sort of the Venturi effect more so than Bernoulli's, since Bernoulli's is specifically for liquids. But Newton's Third law does come in, but only because of the Venturi effect. However, Newton's Third Law cannot, by itself, explain the down force created.
The thing that really bothers me is that noone but F1 fans know that Ratzenburger lost his life there too-all the talk is about Senna-2 men died that weekend, both of them deserve to be remembered
I believe the bottom protective panel caught the ground and created a pivot point for the car to twist enough to lose traction due to the Gs. and FFS we see the sparks we get it. Felt like my dad (an aeronautical engineer and fighter pilot) was driving home a point over and over "because you just don't get it" FU dad I AM a good boy
multi million dollar team. chop and weld steering column, WTF
And did it badly ..def steering rack failure ... that thing straight lined it to the wall .... bullshit about plank causing it.... worse sparking the lap before
I've watched the Senna crash footage many times. What I see is the wheels never move from their original position as he leaves the track toward the wall. I contend he had no steering at that moment. I hate he lost his life, he was very gifted and a great young man. R.I.P. Senna.
Totally agree with you. There's no attempt of correction, no tire movement, no nothing, hence telling us that he had no control whatsoever over the car.
There is also no big oversteer correction. Any good formula car driver would see that. There is the usual tip-in correction , usual for a slightly oversteering car but the car just straightlines the corner after initial tip-in. His car was not "loose" at all. I would definitely say the steering was lost. His head movement tells all for me. His hands are also moving in that brief instant to find steering because it's not there!
Agreed,Williams covered up their mistakes!!
Senna’s death was a result of engineering incompetence😭
I drove formula Atlantic cars for a bit, basically the f2. There's no fkn way you could have steering wheel movement in 3.6 g cornering or any cornering! That's absolutely ludicrous bullshit that a formula car can have movement in the steering wheel during a drive!!! Atlantic cars do 3.6 gs also. Steering movement???!! No way!!!!
Thank you for this . Do you think Ayerton was becoming a problem . Italy mafia corruption think of the money involved . Maybe he was planning a breakaway .
A floating steering wheel like that would be impossible to drive. No effin way. The driver would lose all feedback and... Crash.
Senna was no shrinking violet. He would have taken it in the pits and backhanded whosever's job it was to check those things.
The same thing I was thinking.. like u wouldn't know whats left turn or left movement with a wheel like that. Moving it back and forth, driver wouldn't be able to stabilize himself from all the g force.
My thoughts exactly. Floating steering wheel - the first in automotive history. Biggest load of nonsense from the Williams defense team
come on... 5 minutes of "sparks" footage to prove a point? what the hell
It was one of those "am I dreaming moments?". I vaguely recall such laboured efforts to demonstrate a point from my memories of sharing a classroom with the remedial kids, when I was an infant in school.
PS surely the translator has something to answer for too? I spent as much time pausing this film to comprehend the appalling annotations, as I did just watching the original documentary.
If anything I'm more confused now than when I started. On the evidence of this BS - I could conclude Senna died a result of dislexia ;-)
Paolo Milani when you realize it's part of a 5 video mini series. Seems as though he is trying to cover each topic. Just skip if you wish to to.
i know right
@@Lamster66 In regards to your second part about the steering input not being valid for at faster speeds. I do believe there is a mathematical function that models this. I've done a little bit of work into steering systems using electronic assist and the assist works by using assisted torque vs input torque curves to boost output torque, which vary significantly at various velocities. From that it should be possible to calculate actual steering output from the input torque at any speed. Then again I'm only assuming that this was common knowledge back in the 90's.
So much bullshit from NatGeo
It was proven in the criminal proceedings in Italy that the disruption
of car steering column of Ayrton Senna was the cause of the accident.
Microscopic examination of the material showed typical streaks of
fatigue caused by the application of cyclic stresses. So the reports
showed, WITH ALL THE SCIENTIFIC CERTAINTY that the steering column broke
up because of wear of the material, and not due to the impact of the
accident. What happened was a poorly designed and poorly executed change
in the steering column, which was carelessly welded to meet the pilot's
request, who wanted to change the position of the steering wheel in the
car. So Patrick Head, then technical director of Williams, was charged
and found guilty of manslaughter by Italian justice. He only failed to
fulfill its worth because of prescription. This National Geographic
documentary and tampering with the car telemetry data are part of the
fraud that is designed to hide the cause of the accident. The financial
interests of Formula 1 did not desire that the directors of the teams
could be liable for accidents to the drivers because it would threaten
the business itself.
I am engineer and from my point of view: why would them weld additional 18mm rather than change it with the new part when the column is already out of the car for welding? that makes no sense. its a very important part, and as Imola was know to be very uneven and not leveled, why would they risk to create a weak spot that will cause failure due to fatigue?
Save money
I just don't know what retarded engineer would dare put a weak point in the column like that. Make it equal size man! Even with a nice filet weld or a radiused corner you still have a stress riser. That takes all the safety factor you have in it right back out again.
thats exactly the point dumbass, the guy just said that no one would do that, it couldn't have been the steering column. Williams up to that point nearly universally always had the most technologically advanced cars and spared no expense. Why would they just bandage something like that rather than fit a new steering column
Because they were short on time to do this during the race weekend - that's why !
I agree; since only the data that recorded the steering column actions were "damaged" and also that the only time the steering column has been seen moving that much was at the accident, it must be the right answer.
you do raise some good points. I guess williams just didnt want to get blames for the death of one of the greatest F1 drivers
of course not but what if they planned to keep him out of the race because they were being paid off by someone? Not saying they planned to kill Ayrton, was never the intention just to keep him out of the race but it ended in the worst possible outcome
Whats all the fuzz about? the trial veredict was failure in the steering column, it was demonstrated in trial. The documentary fails to mention this
right off the bat what tells me somthing is up is the fact they say that steering wheel is designed to float around like that during racing conditions..especially on a f1 car??? I wouldnt beleive that unless I saw it first hand
the steering wheels did not float like that ... except in this video.
they were, and still are designed to float with the driver so the wheel doesn't get yanked out of the drivers hand by sudden changes in direction.
@2:10 also, the cars had multiple safety devices that limited suspension travel which would not allow the car to bottom out the suspension. These included but are not limited to valves in the dampers equipped with bump stops and of course huge skid plates. Seems to me that it is pretty obvious the car never even tried to negotiate the corner. The truth is mechanical failures have killed many motorsports top level competitors and continue to happen. The world famous Dunlop family who are competitors at the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy have had to endure multiple deaths caused by mechnical failures on their race bikes. Most recent was William Dunlop who's motor dumped oil on the rear tire. His father, Robert, nearly died when his rear wheel simply exploded during a race and a few years later he was ultimately killed by another part failure during a practice session of the North West 200. These are just bikes which have a lot less moving parts, cars have the same problems with far more opportunities with so many more moving bits... Mechanical failures are absolutely common - the problem here is that the cowardly children at Williams lied about it. They owed Senna more than that.
The sparks are caused by titanium skid plates, strategically placed to prevent wear and damage. When the plank was introduced in 1994, this also had skid plates
... so not a seven minute explanation then?
That's nearly 10 wasted minutes from my life that I can never get back ... let me wondering if the filmmakers had suffered some kinda head trauma ...
Steven Mason what is "the plank"? Thanks.
His point was the data had been tampered with and no argument made with tampered data was useable as a defense. The steering shaft had either partially or completely broken. The coverup is a bigger crime than the negligence of the racing team.
Steering column broke AND he was unlucky. He should have walked away from the accident, apparently apart from his head injury he was unmarked. These things will always happen, its a dangerous sport, all the drivers know it and accept the risks. Senna loved what he did. He may have only been 34 when he died, but what a life. Nearly 20 years later we are still talking about him. A great driver and a great time for F1. The 10 years between 1984 and 1994 were the best IMHO.
no offense, but did you just waste 5 minutes of my life showing clips of sparks coming from under race cars? you couldve shown 30 seconds of various races and been done with it
I thought "am I the only one watching who ain't so fucking stupid that it takes nearly 10 mins of random footage - just to highlight and make clear that one point?"
Like you say, that's 7 or so minutes of my life flushed down the toilet. If they really had to show that ridiculous footage - how about some translation of the commentary? It's not exactly asking much...
Just so you know, you can skip these parts at your own will. There are some really dense people out there that might need more than two clips to get the point.
Everyone who watches F1 knows about sparks, you did not need to add every video you could find.
Hmmm, in 7 years no one corrected this very silly objection?
It was crucial to show video after video after video after video so that we would not only see that the NatGeo video is just lying, but also feel the insult. The F1 "expert" on camera could not have missed this.
It was specially galling when, at the end of all those other races and drivers, we see Senna drive the exact same corner with lots of sparks and no problem.
I always thought his crash was extremely suspicious since I saw it happen live on TV! Now in 2018 I'm finding out it was foul play, or catastrophic failure in the steering! The way he tilts his head is a "oh shit, brace for impact" head tilt. It's not his usual head leaning. I also remember it took them about 20 minutes to arrive to him after car came to rest!!!! Wtf? That's what I said back then. Very very strange indeed!
LASTLY: Other drivers in 1994’s field, who went on to compete in F1 during the 21st Century were David Coulthard, Mika Salo, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine, and two-time world champion Mika Hakkinen to name but five.
As would Wilt Chamberlain in basketball, Senna would dominate today.
Peace....
They are saying the steering wheel vertical movement was a result of g-force exerted on the driver's arms, which in turn was caused by downforce. Downforce on the car doesn't exert g-force on the driver - all it does is effectively increase the weight of the car. You don't feel more g-force driving a truck than you do driving a car, even though it weighs more. Specious.
The best theory I have heard is that the steering power suddenly failed in the middle of the corner. If the steering collum had broke the tyres and the steering wheel would become totally unstable since there is nothing holding them together. Both tyres and steering wheel would be moving when he moved on to the gravel which they don't in the video. Sudden loss of steering power would feel as if the steering becomes suddenly locked in the centre due to the gyroscopic forces of the tyres
Yes and I seen a video of one of the teams top engineers saying steering power just after the accident in the pitwall at Imola. Damon's was switched off before the restarted race, it's possible the extremely low ride height plus the full fuel load and awful bumps caused the power steering to switch off at just the wrong moment sadly. Though let's not pretend this sort of thing didn't happen a lot in F1 , they are prototype machines built on the edge of failure to save weight. The team did nothing wrong , F1 and Ayrton just got unlucky with its location, or maybe it had always been too lucky and got a reality check.
@@markwilliams5540 That would mean that Senna would need to make more force to turn, not to lose steering. I'm pretty sure that if that happened, Senna would have made enough force to avoid the wall, even if that means breaking his thumbs.
50% sparks 50% natgeo video
He died basically because a flat out corner stupidly had no run off area, tyre wall or gravel. Same with poor Ratzenberger
Only 5 mins of sparks? I wanted more.
Lets give it up for that 90'z camera work. How good is that!?
If the downforce was the reason, why it didn't happen during the qualification, why it didn't happen during the first 7 rounds of the race, and why it didn't happen with other drivers, and Shumacher was right behind him and with the same speed...
he problem was the steering wheel, it was broken, period!
Senna ran out of steering, not road.
it is odd though that on qualifying laps sienna's car sparked(touched the ground) right at the instant he veered off the track. But by the sounds of how it all played out it seems like it was the steering column.
The bottoming out sparks are also seen/used/referenced in the 1992 Super Nintendo Game, F1 ROC: Race of Champions/Exhaust Heat...very common in F1 at the time Nat Geo
Yeah... I remember watching these races as a kid. REALLY miss F1 from back then... I still watch, although it's not the same. Not even close, really.
Senna told the Chaplan he was nervous about that corner either the day before or day of that race. RIP A.S !
I agree. The Nat geo version were never gonna make a doc that blames williams, The williams team would sue the hell out of them.
One thing we have learned over the last couple of weeks is that anything can happen in motor racing. Sometimes we will never truly know why accidents happen. The fact that he went sideways going round tumborello means that aside of the theory suggesting the faulty streering colunm was to blame, he was already in serious trouble.
Uh, were the like 5+ minutes of footage of sparks flying from cars necessary? Think we got your point after the first 30 seconds.
As a Williams F1 fan i admit Williams F1 & NatGeo got it wrong and the steering colume did fail with bad enginearing from metal fatigue......Senna's still my Hero.
What you CAN see is that Senna's car stopped steering. The wheels did NOT turn, the car moved in a straight line. That is something the eye can see clearly. No race driver would prefer driving in to a wall rather than spinning and not putting it into the wall period. Human reaction.
When the steering column was extended there was a longer lever in the hands of the drive relative to the fulcrum bearing ( support bracket and the bearing carrier).
For the 1994 F1 Season, the FIA also banned active electronics Anti-locks Brakes, Traction Control, along with Active Suspension. The governing body wanted to drive costs down as R&D costs spiral to heights that would blow anyone's mind.
he isn't saying that they cant bottom out around a corner he is showing that it is possible to still hold control of the car while the suspension is fully compressed and there is contact between the car and the track surface.
Ex-F1 pilots (Prost included) remain cautious on Ayrton crash. They all agree this is a mechanical failure. MIchael Schumarer who was just behind him saw Senna's car bottomed just before Ayrton Senna's crash.. I was myself watching the GP on TV direct live when Ayrton crashed this day...One has to be aware anyway about the speed Ayrton was driving. As far As I remember, he was going 270 km/h, which means, 270 KM / (60 mn x 60 seconds), so 270 / 3600 seconds, so he was making 75 meters per second... this means that if he sneezed once while closing his eyes, he had already run 75 meters...Bear in mind any consequence of that speed...At this speed the slightest movement is amplified...If you react 2 seconds too late, you made 150 meters and you are in the wall or out!!! Bear this in mind
The steering wheel may show a small jitter but to claim that it moves around like that doesn’t make any sense
Still think dark forces at work . Rip Ayerton the best of the best .
@arhavlisj I second that I 100% appreciate this video and the information you have dropped in there is bang on valid points, the truth is , i don't think were ever going to know the truth about this incident, if there was someone (cough cough williams) responsible then its been covered up well, and the rest is history, he will always be remembered as a king in motorsport a true legend
The only comment on the sparks worth noting is that it seemed the Williams was riding lower than a few of the other front-runners, probably attempting to compensate for suspicious handling. I don't think Schumi has as much sparks
It looks to me like both the OP AND the documentary are right - F1 cars have a tub which the cockpit sits in. That tub hits the ground, you WILL partially or completely cut off the airflow, which creates a temporary "stall" in the downforce wing due to disrupted airflow. The thing is, the "stall" is *momentary* - you don't lose control, you DO lose speed. A lot of times, that isn't harmful. That might even be helpful at times, such as when slowing down for a curve; the "stall" will quickly cause speed loss, acting as another brake, then it will resolve itself when accelerating through the curve. I can see the momentary loss of traction due to downforce stall causing a problem, say, in rainy conditions, but not when the track is dry and traction is at its peak.
Downforce stall didn't cause this accident.
As well as disrupting the airflow & reducing the downforce, if the tub hits the road, part of the weight of the car is momentarily supported by the tub ..... & less by the tyres.... which means less grip. Senna was already pushing the limit of grip so the car would tend to travel in a straight line.
also, just because the airflow underneath the car disappears because its touching the ground does not mean the downforce is gone, the car suspension is still compressed downwards.
The point is that the steering column snaped where it was welded. Whoever welded that is responsible for his death.
It was said Senna needed a longer Rod so why dont make a proper one instead. I would'nt approve of something if I have to drive that beast afterwards. dont get why Senna was ok w/ something like that to begin with
lol at the video creator deciding to show several minutes of sparks flying.
Sennas car was bottoming out more, the sparks are caused by the initial impact of the car against the ground. in the race senna would have been carrying approx 60 kg more fuel, not to mention colder tyres from the saftey car previous, you can see from the sparks videos youve sent, particuarly of Senna in brazil that the back end was wanting to step out - exactly what happened in Imola.
It doesn't matter where on the bottom of the car it bottoms out, it could happen at the front back middle of the car, doesn't really matter, the air acts like a fluid, and so, if there's no way for the fluid to travel in the right path underneath the car then the area of low pressure is lost, hence the downforce is lost.
When they show the Williams and Senna at Hockenhiem, you'll notice the sparks are NOT being caused by the floor, but the front wing.
Strange place for when a steering column snaps - when in straight-ahead position. Putting aside the modification, had it snapped going around a corner, the stress and strain imposed would have been sufficient explanation.
Lengthening the steering column would put more twisting stress on the column. The smaller diameter section welded in would be less capable of handling the torque as well unless it was thicker in wall section...seems like the cause to me..can't believe Williams actions hiding evidence, it is despicable. Hope your listening Frank Williams
Frank Williams didn't have anything to do with the technical side , he's just the owner money man. Patrick Head along with Adrian Newey were the technical men. I wouldn't allow this to take place on any racing car ,I just wouldn't risk it for so little time and expense in a money rich world of f1.
just adding showing cars from the 1986 season bottoming out those cars had titanium skid blocks to stop the cars fully bottoming out and keeping downforce
1992 williams Fw14 mansells car those were turning vanes designed to push air around the sideskirts towards the rear wing adding downforce plus that car was fitted with active suspension so would always ride at the prime suspension settings
SO WHERE HAS EPISODE 5 OF 5 GONE???
czcams.com/video/1NjSIZfG5rk/video.html
TheBaconHunter LOL - elites Truth Police
And it also has a lot to do with the camber of the road itself, so if the road is sloped and they turn and the camber is the same as the tilt in the car when it bottoms out it would infact be flat
Modern cars still spark as well, and it looks awesome at the night races. Although they now have the wooden plank added to the bottom after Senna's crash.
What I have always missed is seeing the car trying slow down, was there any evidence of Senna braking? So the most pressing thing to me is: Was the black box data tampered with?
There is actually a movie named Senna that's on Netflix these days. Brought me to tears. Guy was the best.
As you watch the original footage you can see that the front wheels are not turning as he's supposed to be going to a corner steering system problem and he didn't die of a heart attack to me it looks like the steering wheel job was poorly done causing the metal fatigue and then snapping in two they used small pipe then the original weld jobs look good the bearing support should have been moved to?
Was this the same movie that NBCSN re-ran the night before this year's Monaco GP? I remember the one I saw left me in an emotionally drained state for about 30 minutes after seeing it, and I remember being sickened at how very upbeat Samba music was playing during the closing credits.
It said they measured a TORQUE force on the column up to impact. That has nothing to do with the position sensor you mentioned, and DOES guarantee that the column was at least partially functional (it could still be limiting torque, if it was plastically failing at the time, but you could generate NO torque if it was completely failed). You are comparing apples and oranges. My question would have been was the torque in the correct direction and reasonable for that location on the track compared to previous laps, or was it SIGNIFICANTLY less?
And to add on to the sparks part of your explanation. These cars were running "Active Suspension." The drivers were taking advantage of every bit performance by lowering the cars in the high speed sections to increase the car's cornering performance at the push of buttons on the steering wheel.
Active suspension was banned by this time. It was outlawed at the end of 93. All these cars had passive suspension, that's partly the reason they bottomed out alot.
That's correct. But I don't see the Interlagos track as one which has more track elevations. If you watch races from back them, most tracks had elevations and mostly the "road" tracks (Detroit, Phoenix, etc).
Bottoming out is harmless. F1 cars since 1982 don't use ground effects. Only diffusers are allowed, but even they seem to utilize air which i schanneled above the skidplate - watch?v=xd4remhW0J8&NR=1
Thanks for the video, it was about time someone tackled the faulty natgeo mocumentary.
the lower the car, the less air there is. but if you were to blow air at a scale, the quicker moving air would have more force depending on the amount of air involved.
chance he would have been on the absolute top, maybe even the best, today as well if he had driven today.
You see this in every sport, the new are performing better or just going faster, than the previous generations, and it's because of those previous generations they can do this. It doesn't mean the actual raw talent is better, it's just got more to build on from those who has done it before them to go even further.
And what about the the fact that there was debris after the start crash, that could have been picked up by senna, causing a punctured right front wheel, causing the car go straight (look at Nascar crashes when the right front blows, car goes suddenly straight in same way!). And also a puncture would cause the car to bottom/hence the sparks. I don't hear this option. And for example look at the Ralf Schumacher crash at Indianapolis 2004, which was also caused by debris, so debris can cause a puntcture for sure.
@hermankatnip He didn't go sideways and he didn't slide. What happens in steering failures on corners is exactly what happened to him - the car sharply veers away from the apex to the outside for a second or less, after which it goes in a straight line. There is absolutely no sign of instability.
Another obvious thing not mentioned: cornering with downforce only works when tyres make contact.
If the car's bottom touches the ground so hard that it can disrupt airflow, chances are wheels will loose contact.
Looks like the steering column cracked that 70% and he had no steering, the steering column was just hanging on with the last 30% allowing the movement of the wheel and broke the rest of the way when he hit the wall.
Ever since, my first guess has always been the too low ride height. These cars compared to the F1 cars today are still comparably low in downforce. F1 cars in Senna's time are still unstable and the car bounces like crazy. My guess is that, that one bounce may have deflected the car upwards at MOST crucial, painful, tragic moment -- at the Tamburello corner...
It simply was a very painful timing... Of all times, the car bounced just when it was taking the corner at very high speed.
When a car produces sparks, they always are at the BACK OF THE DIFFUSER! If the back of the diffuser reaches the ground, it does not disrupts the flow of the air at all, because the back is elevated to "suck" the air out from bellow the car. Seeing sparks does not mean that the head of the diffuser reached the ground. On the FW15 it's nto the diffuser that reaches the ground but the air wents attached behind the front wing. The accusation here fails (again).
Really? That's a shame... but hey, I think I've seen some transmissions from Speed Channel from 1994. Maybe I'm wrong. And Senna is the best driver of all times ;) the more you learn about the man, more you feel fascinated by his skills on the track (that sometimes seemed unreal) and maybe even more by his depth of character. He was a really brilliant intellect.
Critics-regardless of the sport-who hold your point of view, regarding the superiority of "Today’s” athlete when compared with athletes of an earlier period involved in the same discipline, almost always fail to cogitate the athlete of the past participating-in every aspect-of “Today’s” competition; practice, preparation, and, in this case, F1 racing. Implying Senna wouldn't be competitive, with the same training, technical, and physiological tools “Today’s” drivers get, is just plain wrong.
his car does not spark in that corner until a lap before he is killed.
I understand that it is very unlikely that the car bottoming out would completely stop airflow under the car, but the car was probably very close to its limit of grip and even a reduction in downforce caused by a reduction in airflow could have caused the car to go out of control
Well I've read all the comments and watched all of these videos except number 5 where is it? My opinion. He doesn't spin, or fishtail as he comes into the corner. His front wheels don't move at all to the left to exit the corner, it looks like he has huge under steering. My opinion steering column failure. Williams had a shit car that year and they took those boxes out and fried those two chips because the info pointed to their design failures thus making them liable to have their arses sued off them and the hate of Brazil and the F1 fans world wide.
The sparks come from the barge board that runs down the centre of the car from about the drivers knees to the end of the engine block, they sit normaly a few mms lower than the rest of the under tray, if you had sparks from changing gears then ya gearbox is screwed you would be going no where fast. Im sure the steering broke as before impact you see him steering left but the front wheel is pointing slighty right.
Its obvius that steering column had broke. Lets turn the logic on and talk about it. When you driving a normal car in normal situation and see some opstical on you way, what would you do, exactly, you turn your steering wheel to the oposit side and try to avoid it. Maybe its me, but Senna is the greatest driver and he knew the principes of many cars of those days, and braking hard its not the answer to the situation that he got into, he must turn the wheel, to maintain the trajectory of the circuit, but he could not do it. Why? Because of the downfors, ye ye, we all believe it. RIP SENNA
In the previous two seasons, Senna had gotten used to ABS and traction control, and become much better at using those driver aids, and more dependent on them, than most other drivers. In this season, driver aids were banned, which was part of why Senna's performance was so much worse. It's possible in an emergency that he reverted to full braking while steering, allowing the car to modulate the braking, but the car was no longer able to do that.
Warren Dew have you ever played racing sims? Have you ever drove and had to slam your brakes in a car with no ABS? Do you know what happens? You go completely straight...BUT you do turn the steering wheel don't you? Do you see the wheels turning into the corner in the crash video? Because I don't.
I've driven cars all out on and off the track. If you are smart, you absolutely do not turn the steering wheel while the car is airborne - even if you have ABS and traction control, since those don't do much while you're in the air. And when you do have grip, you don't turn the wheel more than you can while retaining the grip - an amount which would be almost invisible in this instance.
Yes, an average street driver who didn't know how to handle a skid would panic and turn the steering wheel to the max, making a crash assured. Senna was not in that category.
Warren Dew completely agree. But the wheels were straight, the car went straight. At this kind of level of driving, an F1 pilot would certainly prefer to hit the barrier at a larger angle rather than head on. There's no clear evidence of losing control, the car just seems to exit the bend straight into the wall.
The car had lost grip and was basically airborne for the straight segment. The wheels did turn left at the last moment after he regained grip, but that's past the end of the tape shown in this video, and it was too late to affect the car's track much. Unfortunately I can't find the video where I found that to be more visible.
Keep in mind that if the suspension piece hadn't gone through Senna's head, he'd have survived pretty well.
what id senna himself suffered a problem, maybe he passed out or had a stroke. we all saw that a day before he wasn't looking alright and troubled. maybe he was hiding something. i say that because i lost my cousin last week and doctors said he had no stroke or anything his heart simply stopped.... strange life
I think he just bothered to do so (showing lots of footage) to leave no room for discussion on the issue. We can see lots of cars from 87 up to 94 touching the ground and producing sparks in the exact same way.
The point was made after the first couple of clips. Don't need 349342430 clips of sparks.
1/2 In first place that should've been modified as well. Leaving it as it was increased the load onto the modified steering column. It is surprising that people of this kind a expertise could've overlooked something like that. It is clear that no matter what steering angle driver applies the wheels remain dead straight. Which in other turn is quite normal as that is due to the wheel alignment. In my view there was no connection with the steering rack.
1987 the Tamburello was not partialy reasphalted in sections like in the '94, here infact the cars thouched the ground much less than in the Senna crash. Also, we don't have forget that the final decision about the suspenction set up is taken by the driver and in his case was extreme. Probably without the reasphalt xections was a right set up but is clearly visible that when the FW16 loose the grip in the exactly bump and shawer of sparks istanct, not one meter less no one meter more and this can't be just an coincidence. Many says that the Williams teory of the bump and followed pendulum effect is a fake, but this movment is clearly visible in one of the many on boards a lot enlarge. The Senna correction comes so fast and almost unvisible becouse he was at 312 km/h and in the part where the great corner is more hard, but the his reaction was not sufficent becouse was too fast and loose the grip at this speed not allowed to the driver to recovery the right line ..
Dont know mate. I do agree that some people have zero idea of how or when music should be used. Dont remember the ending too much. Was probably too messed up to notice.
Actually, Senna was THE first driver to hire his own fitness coach and trained incredibly hard in order to drive as he did. He was in pursuit of every advantage he could gain and the area of fitness was on of which he knew he could separate himself from other drivers. (research next time before making such an ignorant comment)
Also, the sparks look REALLY cool
his head angle shows commitment to the corner. the wheels don't commit to the wiggle used to re-angle the car to the apex. mechanical failure for the car. big ethical failure for the industry. Dollars speak while people are silenced.
Is that steering column made with rubber!!! And who is that joke of an engineer trying to convince us about his ground effect theories?
I saw the race. I think Senna was just ahead of Damon Hill whose camera was showing Senna's car. On the straight, just before the Tamburello, one sees a flying object out of Senna's car bottom to the right of Damon Hill's car. It was a block like object or something (may be a pipe piece but so fast it looked like a block). That ensured Senna could not turn in. Just observe the race video & the section from Damon Hill's car when you will see an object fly out of Senna's car.
The uploader states that a potentiometer was in place above the break (steering wheel side) - thus if Senna had been twisting the steering wheel to the left, and the column broke then you'd see a spike when it broke, given the amount of force Senna was using to maintain the left turn then you'd have seen the data spike when he didn't have the car fighting him anymore.
If he lost the rear end I'd think that slowing 100km/h would be enough to regain some control if the steering was working. Further, the computer data showed no compensation that you claim. If he had"lost it" with oversteer and compensation, chances are he wouldn't go off in a straight line.
Me neither dude... Senna is in another level.
Downforce cannot be gained by a low pressure - it is gained by the higher pressure. Therefore if the car bottoms out there is no pressure underneath it and downforce is maximum. The new drag caused by friction would increase the grip on the road and the car would both slow and turn as dictated by the steering front wheels. The new drag would decrease the tendency to go sideways and dramatically slow the car. These explanantions by "experts" are reminiscent of those for the official report on 9/11 and the death of a princess - all commion engineering fallacies used to convince an uneducated public and maintain a criminal activity. An ex - spurt is a has been drip, under pressure.
I think you got it wrong. The car's bottom (low ride height) forces air to travel faster which means air with a lower pressure; that generates "inverse" lift sucking the car into the ground.
However It's definitely true that if this bottom effects were to be canceled, the car still has wings generating downforce and this is omitted in the video.
The air doesn't travel faster. How can it travel faster than the car's free stream velocity? Check out the equal transit time fallacy
Howshallwesay Air can travel faster: "Bernoulli's principle states that within an airflow of constant energy, when the air flows through a region of lower pressure it speeds up and vice versa"
I never used the 'equal transit time' argument, on wikipedia under that subject it says "[…] Although it is true that the air moving over the top of a wing generating lift does move faster, there is no requirement for equal transit time. […]".
I first learnt about the aerodynamic lift principle using Bernouli's Principle when I was about 17 years old. I am now 65. In between I learnt to sail. During that time I discovered that the lift produced by a sail is the same as that produced by a wing. But there is no difference in distance round the inside and outside of a sail. Therefore no change in velocity. Also a propeller does the same as a wing, though is greatly curved to reduce it's length, but it's purpose is to direct air backwards, producing an equal and opposite reaction called thrust. An aircraft wing directs air downwards to create lift. It is the air bearing down on the car wing that creates downforce, not the air under the wing creating "suction". As I previously stated work cannot be done on a surface by the inferior force, i.e. low pressure. Next you will tell me that warm air rises, despite Newton's 1st Law of Motion.
You clearly have no understanding of aerodynamics
please, everybody, send this video to nat geo website ! they should realise that F1 fans are not dumb to believe theire lies !
I won't believe waht Nat Geo says any more. Medias are corrupted !
To prove something it's not necessary to put 10 clips in it. 1-2 would be enough
Bernoulli's Principle may apply in the confines of the gap between the car and the track, but do not apply in the case of a downforce wing, where the air is not between two surfaces. Here I believe we have Newton's 3rd Law of Motion which is equal and opposite reaction caused by deflection of air upwards
Air above the wing with the lip and under the wind where it is smooth. 2 surfaces.
+Howshallwesay Somewhat misleading. It's sort of the Venturi effect more so than Bernoulli's, since Bernoulli's is specifically for liquids. But Newton's Third law does come in, but only because of the Venturi effect. However, Newton's Third Law cannot, by itself, explain the down force created.
And the sparks from the Williams is off the front wing and does not at all prove your point
The thing that really bothers me is that noone but F1 fans know that Ratzenburger lost his life there too-all the talk is about Senna-2 men died that weekend, both of them deserve to be remembered
I believe the bottom protective panel caught the ground and created a pivot point for the car to twist enough to lose traction due to the Gs. and FFS we see the sparks we get it. Felt like my dad (an aeronautical engineer and fighter pilot) was driving home a point over and over "because you just don't get it" FU dad I AM a good boy
All those sparks only prove the ground contact is a problem. There were plenty of cases of F1 cars lifting off due to this.