Personally I think wrathion from nyalotha (mythic) is by far the most tedious and annoying boss to fight as a first boss because say you.. stand too long in his fire swirls, you die. If you don't kill one pillar.. you die. If you get even 2 stacks of breath as tank you die. I tanked this as a blood dk in full heroic "bis" (mostly mastery) gear and I was seething after because I wanted to rip my hair out lol thought I'd mention this
I remember Halfus. Sure, he's the first boss of a raid in the first tier of an expansion, but I honestly believe Halfus was harder than more than half of the ICC bosses. He was a bit of a rude awakening. By the time we progressed to Cho'gall, you could really feel yourself becoming a better player, especially in the context of coming off of Wrath
Cataclysm was a big step up in raid and dungeon boss mechanics depth, complexity and quality, plus it was the first expansion where the raid difficulty didn't go up with each raid tier, they were tough from the get go, since the difficulties were supposed to compensate for that, but they forgot to make an equivalent to WotLK's 10 Man Normal difficulty.
Wasn’t Halfus also a lot harder based on raid size if I remember right? Where he was much harder in 10 man than 25. I remember my guild at the time was a ten man guild and we cleared Black wing decent, but couldn’t even come close to beating Halfus.
@@dalorasinum386 Yes Halfus was harder in 10 man, because everyone had a responsibility in the fight, whereas in 25 most people just avoided the cone attack if the tank didn't do the job well and dps-ed the drakes, and in the end Halfus himself.
Halfus was a beast of a fight, for sure. A real buzzkill if you don't manage to get any gear at all during a raid lockout because your raid simply can't beat it. Luckily mine managed it after a few hours, and we had a few bosses in Blackwing down too. But my goodness, those few hours were rough.
You should do a video on bosses that can still kill you no matter what level you are , two that come to mind are the first boss in BWL and spine of death wing
@@Deamia They don't mean "Bosses that you can't solo". They mean "Boss that, even if you are 6 expansions ahead from still have mechanics able to kill a max level player".
I remember Razorgore very well, we would all stack in the bottom left corner and people just kept getting DCed, it was pretty common to see 30 people start running and 10 people screaming that they got DCed :D good old times
My guild never got past Razorgore. We wiped on him for months and months and slowly the guild broke up as we lost tanks and healers who realized we were just never going to kill it.... self fulfilling prophecy.
@@TRFHoj Nope. It was too close to TBC, so it was kind of decided that we'd just take a break, and recruit for a comeback in TBC. I ended up switching to Horde and had much more success in TBC and beyond and stayed with that Horde guild for like a decade.
Rage Winterchill? We killed Kael'thas and it was close to the end time for the raid, but some people were excited to try out Hyjal (yeah, we were dumb). Raid leader let everyone decide what they wanted to do. 17 of us went to Hyjal. We figured we could at least check it out a bit, kill a few waves, maybe get a pattern drop, get the hunters practice for kiting the adds into the NPCs. We kill the waves and Rage shows up. Raid leader, who wasn't expecting this, just said: "stay out of shit on the ground. Let's see how this goes." And we killed him. With 2/3 of a raid. On our first try. Very hard.
Heroic Northrend Beasts was so much fun imo. Especially early on when your gear wasn’t that good. All the chaos when the next boss was about to join the fight… man, memories.
@@badass6300 Hellfire Assault was incredibly tedious and a long fight there was no way you can rush because carts had a set timer, FL was a quick rush to the boss and dead within a minute depending if you went for towers.
Those two don't count as first bosses because you don't have to do them first. Raids will only do those two bosses first if they have them on farm. Though to be fair Rage Winterchill is a joke compared to Vashj and Kael'thas who you need to kill to attune to Hyjal.
@@Sideshownicful there is an elevator somewhere in blacking descent or something that during progression it was the number one cause of wipes in the raid according to dbm which. Super funny.
Man, Blacwing Lair... we were stuck on Razorgore for a while, for being confusing and complicated, and then Vaelastrasz who was very simple, but a gear check. And since gear was very limited, it took weeks for us to get to a level where we could kil it. After that the next couple of bosses were a cakewalk, and with all this BWL gear, Vaelastrasz became easy, too.
Yeah i got about the same experience. But we were one of the few guilds who killed razorgore on 5th try. But after that we wiped on vaelastrasz for 1 month XD. And yeah after that we killed all bosses up to chromaggus wich was a big road block again
Yeah High King Maulgar was a rough intro fight... The actual pull was harder than the rest of the encounter itself. So many attempts were spent on getting the pull right back in '07. Also making sure your key raid members were alive to handle their respective boss was important.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the most common strategy on Rage Winterchill was to run a PvP trinket to completely negate the ice block mechanic.
No Kalecgos. God that fight was a complete nightmare, my guild wiped on it for like 3 months straight [and then killed brutallus who was considered the big block in swp in like 2 weeks]. Fight basically required no deaths and 5 groups of people to rotate around seemlessly.
I remember Kalecgos being a brick wall boss to many guilds due to its complexity. Brutallus was more of a hard DPS check with the short enrage timer he had
High King was a fun cluster cluck. You better hope your mage and lock had enough spell hit or they spellsteal or control demon could fail and you all just immediately wipe.
First time we did Razorgore we cheesed the fight. Soul stone healers and have a pally DI Razorgore. The party would wipe, you could control Razorgore and no adds would spawn. One time loot didnt drop and we opened a ticket and the GM said "It was interesting use of game mechanics". The next week it didnt work so we had to do it the normal way. Actually a holy pally could use concertation to aggro the mobs and run them around the room. Hunter could also kite the dragons while other DPS killed the other adds.
My guild had a different strategy for razorgore. We all ran around the room where hunters would pick up the dragons and warriors would pick up the legionairs. I dont remember who picked up the warlocks but maybe we just burned them down. Warriors had to have the intercept talent to be able to pick up additional legionairs that spawn.
That's what we did as well. I was a Hunter, it was not uncommon for me to be kiting 2 or 3 dragonkin at once. It looked chaotic as hell but once you figured it out it worked well.
Definitely. Such a nasty fight (on every difficulty, but exceptionally so on mythic) if you had raiders who didn't understand the mechanics or were simply slow to react.
It's interesting that Magmaw made the list. Not because he wasn't worthy, but because I don't think I've ever been in a raid that did BWD that didn't do Omnitron first and Magmaw second. Yes, I know you could do them in either order. Everyone I knew just did him second. it's just sort of fun to encounter someone who did it the other way.
My guild at the time was awful so magmaw was our first boss because it was a bit easier to get through as more people could fail while the five of us that knew what we were doing carried it. I miss 10 man, although I get why it's gone.
On High King Maulgar; there was also spell hit at the time. It was possible for the mage tank on Krosh Firehand to miss the spellsteal and wipe the raid. Best tactic was to have two mage tanks as a just in case.
The beautiful part is that there is a solid case to be made that Vael, the second boss of BWL, is also the hardest second boss ever made. This would probably make BWL the hardest Raid to get started in, if not for the fact that there was zero clearing between the two bosses.
I remember Magmaw well mainly because I played on a laptop at the time, and the fps would drop to single digits on that fight. Healing was an absolute nightmare and we wiped so many times because I couldn't keep people up.
I remember Rage Winterchill when I was first soloing this in Pandaria and never did this raid before and suddenly started taking 15% of HP, entirely oblivious what it was from and died to it 😅
Respectfully, Rage Winterchill is not a "very hard first boss" . His death n decay can be fully ignored by melee/tanks as you can just heal through it, and his frostbolt is easily countered with a single trinket.
I'll 2nd this, Rage shouldn't even be on the list. Think of Lucifron in the context of never having raided a 40 man, and you definitely have an "annoying" boss
I think he’s placed here for being annoying and requiring you to clear 8 waves of trash every time you want to kill him. Not because he’s difficult tbh.
My takeback from this video is that the first tier of Cata was brutal. All of BoT was crazy hard and normal guilds would rather progress Heroic mode than go for normal Nefarian. 👌
Cataclysm was full of design where there was a deliberate information gap; once you knew what mattered and what didn't, all the material was reasonably easy, BUT it was a real rude shock after two years of WOTLK for a lot of players. I was new to the top tier in Cata and I thought it was a blast, but it absolutely was an expansion of 'does everyone know this mechanic? No, okay, then we need to explain it.'
It had a lot of genuine difficulty. Also had a few factors that made it 'artificially hard' Healers went from being nigh unable to oom in Wrath to suddenly being quite limited on mana. A lot hadn't adjusted yet. There were some major bugs in the tier that persisted for a while. And the balance between 10 and 25 was terrible. It seems Blizz thought designing a fight for 25, then reducing the boss HP, would scale it down to 10. It did not.
@@jji7447 true, healing was super difficult during Cata’s onset, and the 25-vs.-10 man issue never really got better. Fights in Dragon Soul were totally tuned for 25m so 10m groups had a much harder time progressing. But all in all, tier 11 was super fun.
You could do a list of just the TBC bosses that were bugged/glitchy or just didnt work like they were suppose to. Since TBC didnt have a PTR like we do now they weren't tested properly. Solarian had her mechanics completely rework multiple times after launch. It is annoying to be progressing on a boss one week only for blizzard to then change how the boss worked the next.
High King was so weird, it went from what seemed impossible to completely trivial once your group started clicking. I remember really enjoying it back in the day.
It's all a combination of learning the skills needed to deal with each boss and gaining better gear along the way where its easier to maintain hit caps and deal more damage in a short amount of time
I actually have fond memories of Halfus, I never found his mechanics annoying in any way, just required getting used to which drakes you had to help you out that week. The Northrend Beasts encounter, I agree was annoying because if you wiped on the last one, you had to do ALL of them over again. Magmaw I found wasn't difficult OR annoying to deal with, I found it kind of fun. It was a pretty straightforward encounter, a good introduction boss for BWD, at least in my opinion.
One more thing about Rage Winterchill: There was a time where his Death and Decay was invisible if you had your graphics settings low enough so it was even harder to get out of.
Razorgore was brutal. We were raiding twice a week and failed to kill him for 6 weeks which was not only infuriating but also caused a lot of people to quit the guild. Finally when we got him, we managed to beat every boss until Chromaggus where we also struggled a bit, but not as much as with Razorgore.
Although I have played WoW for almost all of my life (ran my parents' early vanilla characters around in my pre-kindergarten year and Azeroth slowly began to dominate my childhood and teenage gaming from there), I began raiding regularly only in the middle of BfA, when my retail guild at the time came back from a long raiding hiatus partway through 8.1. I disliked the first boss of Battle of Dazar'alor (I forgot the name) more than Sivara in Eternal Palace, but that is only because my guild, being freshly back into casual raiding, spent far longer on that first boss than the next one. I ended up going full Classic mode when it came out not even a week after my old retail guild downed Normal Azshara, and I will definitely agree with High King Maulgar and Winterchill being annoying. Well, in Winterchill's case, it's more so that I dislike all the bosses in there. Other than Razorgore, I have never progressed on or really seen any of the others. Razorgore was barely any progression at all for me to be honest, but I can imagine my father and those he knew had a lot of trouble. If he wasn't dead, I'd ask him. I do know that he was one of the lucky ones that saw at least up to Four Horsemen in old timey vanilla, however, I am doubtful that his guild downed Kel'Thuzad. I don't truly know how far they got other than Four Horsemen, though.
Rage Winterchill, The only raid boss that made me fall asleep! We were progressing through MH and the next morning i woke up to -DKP for falling asleep.
Zor'lok at Number 3 is a ridiculous placement - he´s definately the hardest First Boss in the entire History of WoW atleast on the highest Difficulty. He took almost the same time to kill as the Final Boss in the Instance and wasn´t killed a single time before being nerfed several times (plattform fix, Adds in the final phase don´t all cast force and werve, only 1 Add spawns in the last phase, delays on the cast from the adds in the final phase) and even afterwards was extremly difficult. Odyn was a rather difficult fight aswell but not even comparable as the 2nd Boss in the instance was the hard one (tight damage race) and regarding Razorgore.... I guess that fight was 15 years ago, we know how the fight turned out during Classic 2.0 :3
But to my understanding wasn't it skipped because 1. People didn't want to do the 2nd phase since it had the chance to be the hard platform and 2. It was skippable so why do it. As far as the odyn statment, this is first bosses not 2nd. And as far as razorgore, he was hard back in the day due to lack of info
@@duelistkind846 how do you mean they didnt want to do 2nd phase? First plattform was random (left with attenuation or right with force and werve), the other one was always the remaining one of the two and the last the MC plattform. 2nd Phase (from 45-0%) had nothing to do with it, phase 1 was just unplayable if he started with attenuation bc you had to kill the add that spawns with every transition fast and the raid wouldnt have survived a Force and Werve without the bubble. Yeah you could skip Zorlok, but you couldn´t progress on the final boss if u skipped him on heroic and did him on normal instead and that argument (possibility to skip) doesn´t count imo if you´re already reminding me that we´re talking about first boss difficulty right? :P
razorgore was nuts during the original launch. Almost every guild made it to chromagus the same week they first took down razorgore, but razorgore took weeks to even months to down him for some guilds. Also, once you beat him the first time, it almost was like a levelup for your raid group because of all the coordination it required. It wasn't just a couple healers a couple tanks and a couple DPS carrying a 40 man raid, it literally took all 40. He would have been a perfect boss if he was 3rd to last instead of 1st.
HFC and ToV are still hard to this day just because of classes with horrible mobility (I hated running HFC on my DK, but loved doing it on my druid or DH) or not being able to summon a tanking minion (ended up forcing my friend who mained monk to raid with me for that sole purpose)
Wowowow, even when fighting halfus in 10m in pug groups and not being able to 3 tank, pulling all the dragons at once was THE way to do the boss unless it was first week of heroic where you had almost no gear
10:13 “preventing them of popping defensive cds”, wrong information, pvp trinkets can be popped which will remove the ice block and allow you to negate the mechanic.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Halfus had some weird bugs on him too. The first tier of Cata was great because it had 3 raids but they did have quite a few bugs, especially BWD.
I made sure any 1 boss raids were not allowed as that's cheating I felt 2 would also be too easy, but ehhh and 3 i was not for either but close enough that odyn being insane pulled it through.
Ohh i was expecting Lord Marrowgar to be on the list ... He was really annoying with chance to cast spike and flame on the same player! We never had a problem with ToC beast i was surprised with that pick ^^
For Kiggler on the Maulgar fight we just had a Boomy pop cds and do as much dmg as possible since they can't be polymorphed, and dedicated 1 healer to keeping that Boomy alive. If not that, then 2 hunters would sit on him with a healer keeping them up, since pets usually got the polymorph and could be dispelled with Mend Pet.
@@MrPeaceFroggy well not really but some are and the list is about which is the hardest of the first bosses of a raid when you do it for the first time because of unknow mechanics like destroying all the eggs while MC the boss.
Rage Winterchill wasn't difficult at all for groups that had managed to kill Kael'thas - in fact, Winterchill was one of the easiest "reward bosses" for reaching a new raid tier.
Bro our guild used to have all of the off tanks and hunters kite the Razorgore adds by spamming demo shout in a figure 8 while 4 groups of DPS and healers would DPS down the adds and kill the magesas they passed. It was so fucking scuffed.
4 million was nothing. IIRC, back in late stages of Cata or MoP, before the first stat squish, I saw a druid tank will nearly 1 billion HP. I want to say it was Cata since I specifically remember seeing a druid tank (I was healing) with an obscene amount of health in H Vortex Pinnacle.
@@Dimumouto The first stat squish was the prepatch to WoD at the end of MoP. Also, your memory isn't correct. Nobody had anywhere near that much hp ever.
@@claytonreeves150 doing some searching and you're right. It may have been a druid tank in Cata with 1 million health instead, that expansion DID release 12 years ago. goddamn.
@@Dimumouto I think it was those instances of bears having over 1 million hp that started the ball rolling for the stat squish in the first place. What surprised me was how fast everything re-inflated over just two expansions, leading to the second squish.
@@claytonreeves150 right it's crazy that we literally just did a squish and we are already back up to where we are. Dps are already doing 100k in some pulls.
Razorgore was difficult because in 2005, people had very bad computers and internet connections as well as the fact that no one really knew properly how the fight even worked or what to do and just had to trial and error to figure it all out. Definitely why he was so challenging.
Magmaw sounds like a nightmare. Imagine being a healer on that fight. Fuck me, imagine being the Hunter on that fight! You fuck up one time and the entire raid wipes and EVERYONE _KNOWS_ it was you.
Man I loved battle for mount hyjal although most of that came from the Warcraft3 mission nostalgia thinking about how I was playing the rts but I was just one of the units and not the guy who was in fact building aproximly 40 balistas to kill archy when ho hit janias base
So we had a TOV boss, but did you not consider Restless Cabal from crucible of storms something different enough? I think it’s valid either way, just curious what your thoughts were. It was a crazy boss if you classify it as a “first boss”
I feel like it was the true start on hunters being the mechanic class. Doing that fight with or without a hunter that knew what they were doing was such a big difference.
halfus and omnotron defense system just don't get enough respect considering the absurd amount of interrupts and crazy cast times of them. oh yeah and blizz just kinda forgot to account for the fact that a 10 man raid only had a third of the interrupters. Most 10 man guilds were just stuck on 1/13 for that tier for WEEKS. The wind council was also kinda crazy. blizz really didn't know how to balance 10 and 25 with each other...
definitely agree on these i think u could do a part 2 even… the first boss of dragon soul is weird because of the bosss room and trash could run up… also the first boss of firelands same reason… and definitely wrathion from nyalotha
I did progressed later on the bug, and that boss was one of the best designed one ever exsisted. It was an easy boss, once you knew what does what, and how to deal with them, it was a really forgiving boss too, because if someone died, you could still down the boss, the enrage timer wasnt hard. Most of his mechanics could be cheesed like getting from 1 platform to another via warlock portal, 1 tank going earlier, steampeding roar etc. And outside of song of empress, nothing oneshots, on heroic the echo can be solo tanked, with a meele swapping or even 2 dps tanking it like warrior rotating defensive cds, which you had like 3, dk in the same position etc. Tho it was a pain farming it, because you could easly wipe on it, any time and puging it was a pain jn the ass, because yes, you could fail something once, and not die, or 1 or 2 ppl die, but even after doing it dozens of time, of you misstep, got confused or blink at the wrong moment and panices afterwards, you could die, and ppl were failing stuff like no tomorrow, and died like they get paid for it..overall, it was the most fun boss in the raid for me (maybe because the second and 4th were gimmick bosses), the 3rd one was a gear check, the 5th was one of if not the most hated boss of all time y and the last one was a snoze fest and a cake walk after downing the 5th.)
Razorgore destroyed many many guilds. We were able to do the fight relatively fast, but more than half of the guilds that completed MC on my server disbanded on him and Vael. BWL was brutal.
You did fight Hallfus by releasing all drakes at once since at start he got the dmg% taken instant when drakes got free not killed. few times where more fun to be a firemage
Flame Levi in Ulduar? Hmm have to disagree a bít. The boss itself was a bit annoying yes, but the clearing of ALL that trash, that was pretty cool! We had our guildmembers constantly team up with the same drivers and vehicles and gotten pretty good at shooting évery damn thing that moved. It was time-consuming yes, and after many months, it did became a bit boring, but thats the case with every raidboss after a while. I dó miss those times. Clearing Flame Levi-trash, or the Battle for Wintergraps. Good times :)
Rage Winterchill? Really? That was probably the easiest 25 man fight in the entire expansion, including Gruul and HKM (and loot reaver/lurker below). Only got 20 people attuned to Hyjal? Go and get your free T6 level gear. I guess having to redo the trash if you wiped would make it qualify as annoying, but that's something I just learned because I've never wiped on that boss, and one-shotting new bosses in the days before difficulty split was not a common occurrence. It didn't happen frequently enough to make it annoying.
sometimes you do changes of specs over time - i would like to hear about shadow - it is weird, i was sorta bad at shadow in legion and bfa, but the change how he works now helped me a lot - also i remember that in cata they had alternative dmg dealing other than dots - mind spike mind blast combo
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Personally I think wrathion from nyalotha (mythic) is by far the most tedious and annoying boss to fight as a first boss because say you.. stand too long in his fire swirls, you die. If you don't kill one pillar.. you die. If you get even 2 stacks of breath as tank you die. I tanked this as a blood dk in full heroic "bis" (mostly mastery) gear and I was seething after because I wanted to rip my hair out lol thought I'd mention this
@@eielyreithstormwake1905 🚨 0
I remember Halfus. Sure, he's the first boss of a raid in the first tier of an expansion, but I honestly believe Halfus was harder than more than half of the ICC bosses. He was a bit of a rude awakening. By the time we progressed to Cho'gall, you could really feel yourself becoming a better player, especially in the context of coming off of Wrath
Cataclysm was a big step up in raid and dungeon boss mechanics depth, complexity and quality, plus it was the first expansion where the raid difficulty didn't go up with each raid tier, they were tough from the get go, since the difficulties were supposed to compensate for that, but they forgot to make an equivalent to WotLK's 10 Man Normal difficulty.
Wasn’t Halfus also a lot harder based on raid size if I remember right? Where he was much harder in 10 man than 25.
I remember my guild at the time was a ten man guild and we cleared Black wing decent, but couldn’t even come close to beating Halfus.
@@dalorasinum386 Yes Halfus was harder in 10 man, because everyone had a responsibility in the fight, whereas in 25 most people just avoided the cone attack if the tank didn't do the job well and dps-ed the drakes, and in the end Halfus himself.
Halfus was a beast of a fight, for sure. A real buzzkill if you don't manage to get any gear at all during a raid lockout because your raid simply can't beat it.
Luckily mine managed it after a few hours, and we had a few bosses in Blackwing down too. But my goodness, those few hours were rough.
@@andromidius In BoT the Ascendant Council was the tough fight for us. And Sinestra on Heroic.
I remember that so many people swore that Halfus Wyrmbreaker was legitimately impossible during certain weeks.
Dad guilds good times
You should do a video on bosses that can still kill you no matter what level you are , two that come to mind are the first boss in BWL and spine of death wing
the lich king :skull:
I'm not sure what you mean, both of those fights have been solo-able for years.
@@Deamia They don't mean "Bosses that you can't solo". They mean "Boss that, even if you are 6 expansions ahead from still have mechanics able to kill a max level player".
@@AvelineMelena I see, I read it wrong.
Legacy Bosses that can still kill you at max level.
I remember Razorgore very well, we would all stack in the bottom left corner and people just kept getting DCed, it was pretty common to see 30 people start running and 10 people screaming that they got DCed :D good old times
My guild never got past Razorgore. We wiped on him for months and months and slowly the guild broke up as we lost tanks and healers who realized we were just never going to kill it.... self fulfilling prophecy.
@@Snuzzled sorry to hear that, did you at least get a kill with some other guild and managed to enjoy the rest of the raid?
@@TRFHoj Nope. It was too close to TBC, so it was kind of decided that we'd just take a break, and recruit for a comeback in TBC. I ended up switching to Horde and had much more success in TBC and beyond and stayed with that Horde guild for like a decade.
That was 2 years ago not exactly old times
@@BKBK-yo1zz I'm pretty sure it's 15+ years ago
Rage Winterchill? We killed Kael'thas and it was close to the end time for the raid, but some people were excited to try out Hyjal (yeah, we were dumb). Raid leader let everyone decide what they wanted to do. 17 of us went to Hyjal. We figured we could at least check it out a bit, kill a few waves, maybe get a pattern drop, get the hunters practice for kiting the adds into the NPCs.
We kill the waves and Rage shows up. Raid leader, who wasn't expecting this, just said: "stay out of shit on the ground. Let's see how this goes." And we killed him. With 2/3 of a raid. On our first try. Very hard.
Yeah, this fight was a joke, confused as to why it's here.
I think hiru played vabilla-wotlk back in the day and was kind shit and thinks these old fights are way harder than they actually were
"I'm gonna assert some complete bullshit and get some self-important nerds to farm engagement for me" - Hiru, probably.
The bosses in lower list are the annoying ones not the hardest. Didn't he said so in the video.
He said the earlier entries were annoying more than difficult, and I certainly think Rage is fucking annoying
Really neat idea highlighting the early bosses that usually get forgotten in relation to final ones.
Always looking forward to your new videos, thanks for making wow content
Glad you like them!
Heroic Northrend Beasts was so much fun imo. Especially early on when your gear wasn’t that good.
All the chaos when the next boss was about to join the fight… man, memories.
Or doing the achievement of keep 2 kobolds alive until the end
My fondest memories are casting path of frost/water walking before the final boss. I honestly really liked TOC/TOGC because of the no trash mobs
I know what they were going for with the hellfire assault
I love the idea of breaking into the raid as an encounter like Destiny does
Ulduar did it too.
@@badass6300 Ulduar also did it better
@@dogswifty7800 Naaah, it was still good, but this was much more engaging and fun.
@@badass6300 Hellfire Assault was incredibly tedious and a long fight there was no way you can rush because carts had a set timer, FL was a quick rush to the boss and dead within a minute depending if you went for towers.
@@dogswifty7800 What is a negative to you is a positive to me and what is a positive to me is a negative to you it seems.
I don't think Rage Winterchill deserves a spot over Al'ar and Hydross. Especially pre-nerf Al'ar!
Those two don't count as first bosses because you don't have to do them first. Raids will only do those two bosses first if they have them on farm. Though to be fair Rage Winterchill is a joke compared to Vashj and Kael'thas who you need to kill to attune to Hyjal.
@@zackwoods5077 the same could be said about magmaw though
Technically, the first boss in Serpentshrine Cavern is the elevator boss and it still killed many raiders even after Lady Vashj was on farm.
@@zackwoods5077 Rage Winterchill is a joke compared to basically every raid boss in WoW's history.
@@Sideshownicful there is an elevator somewhere in blacking descent or something that during progression it was the number one cause of wipes in the raid according to dbm which. Super funny.
the hard casting flurry i the rage winterchill section was more triggering then I expected lol
Man, Blacwing Lair... we were stuck on Razorgore for a while, for being confusing and complicated, and then Vaelastrasz who was very simple, but a gear check. And since gear was very limited, it took weeks for us to get to a level where we could kil it. After that the next couple of bosses were a cakewalk, and with all this BWL gear, Vaelastrasz became easy, too.
Yeah i got about the same experience. But we were one of the few guilds who killed razorgore on 5th try. But after that we wiped on vaelastrasz for 1 month XD. And yeah after that we killed all bosses up to chromaggus wich was a big road block again
Yeah High King Maulgar was a rough intro fight... The actual pull was harder than the rest of the encounter itself. So many attempts were spent on getting the pull right back in '07. Also making sure your key raid members were alive to handle their respective boss was important.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the most common strategy on Rage Winterchill was to run a PvP trinket to completely negate the ice block mechanic.
Also no mention of a boomkin tanking Kiggler, who casts polymorph which boomkins are immune to.
@@turbotravis2323 He doesn't research his shit and just spews shit he reads on reddit.
“The most beloved raid in the game’s history” sent me lol
I would’ve loved that raid….if it didn’t have the add waves
No Kalecgos. God that fight was a complete nightmare, my guild wiped on it for like 3 months straight [and then killed brutallus who was considered the big block in swp in like 2 weeks]. Fight basically required no deaths and 5 groups of people to rotate around seemlessly.
I remember Kalecgos being a brick wall boss to many guilds due to its complexity. Brutallus was more of a hard DPS check with the short enrage timer he had
High King was a fun cluster cluck. You better hope your mage and lock had enough spell hit or they spellsteal or control demon could fail and you all just immediately wipe.
Remember that fight, as a warlock I had alot of fun.
Once though, I had swapped a gear piece, making me not hit-capped. That was awkward.
While mythic clearing Hellfire Citadel Assault, half the raid took turns each week AFKing while the other half dealt with the boss. I liked that
Yep
First time we did Razorgore we cheesed the fight. Soul stone healers and have a pally DI Razorgore. The party would wipe, you could control Razorgore and no adds would spawn. One time loot didnt drop and we opened a ticket and the GM said "It was interesting use of game mechanics". The next week it didnt work so we had to do it the normal way. Actually a holy pally could use concertation to aggro the mobs and run them around the room. Hunter could also kite the dragons while other DPS killed the other adds.
No Kalecgos from Sunwell Plateau? That boss was harder than most of the bosses on the list combined.
My guild had a different strategy for razorgore. We all ran around the room where hunters would pick up the dragons and warriors would pick up the legionairs. I dont remember who picked up the warlocks but maybe we just burned them down. Warriors had to have the intercept talent to be able to pick up additional legionairs that spawn.
That's what we did as well. I was a Hunter, it was not uncommon for me to be kiting 2 or 3 dragonkin at once. It looked chaotic as hell but once you figured it out it worked well.
Wasn't The Restless Cabal fight in crucible of storms was as difficult as a penultimate boss? Why it isn't on the list?
Definitely. Such a nasty fight (on every difficulty, but exceptionally so on mythic) if you had raiders who didn't understand the mechanics or were simply slow to react.
Yeah. Think he missed out on that one. Definitely harder then any on this list on mythic at least 😄
Thank you for actually making a video out of my recommendation, good to see a CZcamsr that actually listens to their community
I’d love to see a video of your top 10 zones that should be updated/healed/fixed!
It's interesting that Magmaw made the list. Not because he wasn't worthy, but because I don't think I've ever been in a raid that did BWD that didn't do Omnitron first and Magmaw second. Yes, I know you could do them in either order. Everyone I knew just did him second. it's just sort of fun to encounter someone who did it the other way.
My guild at the time was awful so magmaw was our first boss because it was a bit easier to get through as more people could fail while the five of us that knew what we were doing carried it.
I miss 10 man, although I get why it's gone.
you forgot to mention runic brand on Odyn mythic difficulty, that p3 was so hectic
I remember that my entire role during the Magmaw encounter was to kite the parasites on my frost dk, fun times
My channel manager says he had to do the same, back in cata they had to use their frost dk to purely do just that on their alt nights.
shouting out a strangers (similar) channel is so damn kind of you. i’m gonna go watch some
Been loving your master duel content lately but I’ll always support the WoW vids even though I don’t play it :). Thanks for the awesome content
Thanks, Master Duel with chat has really been a blast.
12:39 when i raided in cata my job was to just kite the parasites "for being frost dk i got the kite job most of the time"
On High King Maulgar; there was also spell hit at the time. It was possible for the mage tank on Krosh Firehand to miss the spellsteal and wipe the raid. Best tactic was to have two mage tanks as a just in case.
The beautiful part is that there is a solid case to be made that Vael, the second boss of BWL, is also the hardest second boss ever made. This would probably make BWL the hardest Raid to get started in, if not for the fact that there was zero clearing between the two bosses.
I remember Magmaw well mainly because I played on a laptop at the time, and the fps would drop to single digits on that fight. Healing was an absolute nightmare and we wiped so many times because I couldn't keep people up.
I’ve followed this channel now for half a decade. Glad to see you’re still kicking. ☺️
I remember Rage Winterchill when I was first soloing this in Pandaria and never did this raid before and suddenly started taking 15% of HP, entirely oblivious what it was from and died to it 😅
Respectfully, Rage Winterchill is not a "very hard first boss" . His death n decay can be fully ignored by melee/tanks as you can just heal through it, and his frostbolt is easily countered with a single trinket.
I'll 2nd this, Rage shouldn't even be on the list. Think of Lucifron in the context of never having raided a 40 man, and you definitely have an "annoying" boss
I think he’s placed here for being annoying and requiring you to clear 8 waves of trash every time you want to kill him. Not because he’s difficult tbh.
My takeback from this video is that the first tier of Cata was brutal. All of BoT was crazy hard and normal guilds would rather progress Heroic mode than go for normal Nefarian. 👌
Cataclysm was full of design where there was a deliberate information gap; once you knew what mattered and what didn't, all the material was reasonably easy, BUT it was a real rude shock after two years of WOTLK for a lot of players. I was new to the top tier in Cata and I thought it was a blast, but it absolutely was an expansion of 'does everyone know this mechanic? No, okay, then we need to explain it.'
It had a lot of genuine difficulty. Also had a few factors that made it 'artificially hard'
Healers went from being nigh unable to oom in Wrath to suddenly being quite limited on mana. A lot hadn't adjusted yet. There were some major bugs in the tier that persisted for a while. And the balance between 10 and 25 was terrible. It seems Blizz thought designing a fight for 25, then reducing the boss HP, would scale it down to 10. It did not.
@@jji7447 true, healing was super difficult during Cata’s onset, and the 25-vs.-10 man issue never really got better. Fights in Dragon Soul were totally tuned for 25m so 10m groups had a much harder time progressing. But all in all, tier 11 was super fun.
I haven’t played wow in a few years now but I can remember my job in almost all of these fights back when it was current. :)
The biggest thing about Halfus as well was it was WAY harder on 10 man vs 25 because of scaling. It was hell.
You could do a list of just the TBC bosses that were bugged/glitchy or just didnt work like they were suppose to. Since TBC didnt have a PTR like we do now they weren't tested properly. Solarian had her mechanics completely rework multiple times after launch. It is annoying to be progressing on a boss one week only for blizzard to then change how the boss worked the next.
Ty for another great video 👍🌹
High King was so weird, it went from what seemed impossible to completely trivial once your group started clicking. I remember really enjoying it back in the day.
I think it's just because there wasn't near as much info back then so you had to kinda just feel it out till it worked
It's all a combination of learning the skills needed to deal with each boss and gaining better gear along the way where its easier to maintain hit caps and deal more damage in a short amount of time
@@Spectacular66 I think it was 90% skill/knowing the fight to be honest. If that fight went bad, it went bad in the first 15 seconds.
@@andrewshandle yeah precision was definitely a must but if your guild could do it you were in a great position to progress
I actually have fond memories of Halfus, I never found his mechanics annoying in any way, just required getting used to which drakes you had to help you out that week.
The Northrend Beasts encounter, I agree was annoying because if you wiped on the last one, you had to do ALL of them over again.
Magmaw I found wasn't difficult OR annoying to deal with, I found it kind of fun. It was a pretty straightforward encounter, a good introduction boss for BWD, at least in my opinion.
One more thing about Rage Winterchill: There was a time where his Death and Decay was invisible if you had your graphics settings low enough so it was even harder to get out of.
Razorgore was brutal. We were raiding twice a week and failed to kill him for 6 weeks which was not only infuriating but also caused a lot of people to quit the guild. Finally when we got him, we managed to beat every boss until Chromaggus where we also struggled a bit, but not as much as with Razorgore.
The most beloved raid...I almost spit my drink out.
Although I have played WoW for almost all of my life (ran my parents' early vanilla characters around in my pre-kindergarten year and Azeroth slowly began to dominate my childhood and teenage gaming from there), I began raiding regularly only in the middle of BfA, when my retail guild at the time came back from a long raiding hiatus partway through 8.1. I disliked the first boss of Battle of Dazar'alor (I forgot the name) more than Sivara in Eternal Palace, but that is only because my guild, being freshly back into casual raiding, spent far longer on that first boss than the next one. I ended up going full Classic mode when it came out not even a week after my old retail guild downed Normal Azshara, and I will definitely agree with High King Maulgar and Winterchill being annoying. Well, in Winterchill's case, it's more so that I dislike all the bosses in there. Other than Razorgore, I have never progressed on or really seen any of the others. Razorgore was barely any progression at all for me to be honest, but I can imagine my father and those he knew had a lot of trouble. If he wasn't dead, I'd ask him. I do know that he was one of the lucky ones that saw at least up to Four Horsemen in old timey vanilla, however, I am doubtful that his guild downed Kel'Thuzad. I don't truly know how far they got other than Four Horsemen, though.
I love that old warlock metamorphosis model
I knew Razorgore would be there. that fight was such a massive pain in the ass
This game looks fun…
I have had my sun running , and haven’t been playing…
I think this video has brought me back !!,
Thanks for that bro!
Rage Winterchill, The only raid boss that made me fall asleep! We were progressing through MH and the next morning i woke up to -DKP for falling asleep.
ptsd of infamous halfus pugbreaker
i just started playing wow in cata and i had no guild so i had to pug. it was not a good time on that boss.
Halfus Heroic was a massive pain in the ass really. We had sooooo much trouble with that SOAB
Zor'lok at Number 3 is a ridiculous placement - he´s definately the hardest First Boss in the entire History of WoW atleast on the highest Difficulty. He took almost the same time to kill as the Final Boss in the Instance and wasn´t killed a single time before being nerfed several times (plattform fix, Adds in the final phase don´t all cast force and werve, only 1 Add spawns in the last phase, delays on the cast from the adds in the final phase) and even afterwards was extremly difficult.
Odyn was a rather difficult fight aswell but not even comparable as the 2nd Boss in the instance was the hard one (tight damage race) and regarding Razorgore.... I guess that fight was 15 years ago, we know how the fight turned out during Classic 2.0 :3
But to my understanding wasn't it skipped because 1. People didn't want to do the 2nd phase since it had the chance to be the hard platform and 2. It was skippable so why do it. As far as the odyn statment, this is first bosses not 2nd. And as far as razorgore, he was hard back in the day due to lack of info
@@duelistkind846 how do you mean they didnt want to do 2nd phase? First plattform was random (left with attenuation or right with force and werve), the other one was always the remaining one of the two and the last the MC plattform. 2nd Phase (from 45-0%) had nothing to do with it, phase 1 was just unplayable if he started with attenuation bc you had to kill the add that spawns with every transition fast and the raid wouldnt have survived a Force and Werve without the bubble. Yeah you could skip Zorlok, but you couldn´t progress on the final boss if u skipped him on heroic and did him on normal instead and that argument (possibility to skip) doesn´t count imo if you´re already reminding me that we´re talking about first boss difficulty right? :P
Blackwing Descent had some amazing bosses. Cataclysm gets bad wrap on youtube but the first couple raid tiers were 10/10.
razorgore was nuts during the original launch. Almost every guild made it to chromagus the same week they first took down razorgore, but razorgore took weeks to even months to down him for some guilds. Also, once you beat him the first time, it almost was like a levelup for your raid group because of all the coordination it required. It wasn't just a couple healers a couple tanks and a couple DPS carrying a 40 man raid, it literally took all 40. He would have been a perfect boss if he was 3rd to last instead of 1st.
Boom.
Hirru's hereeee.
Another awesome vid, ma man.
HFC and ToV are still hard to this day just because of classes with horrible mobility (I hated running HFC on my DK, but loved doing it on my druid or DH) or not being able to summon a tanking minion (ended up forcing my friend who mained monk to raid with me for that sole purpose)
Wowowow, even when fighting halfus in 10m in pug groups and not being able to 3 tank, pulling all the dragons at once was THE way to do the boss unless it was first week of heroic where you had almost no gear
10:13 “preventing them of popping defensive cds”, wrong information, pvp trinkets can be popped which will remove the ice block and allow you to negate the mechanic.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Halfus had some weird bugs on him too. The first tier of Cata was great because it had 3 raids but they did have quite a few bugs, especially BWD.
What about the first boss of the whole of Azeroth?
*Hogger*
Hogger stands lonely at the top!
=giggles in Gnoll=
Surprised not to see restless cabal here. That fight was nasty, esp on mythic.
I made sure any 1 boss raids were not allowed as that's cheating
I felt 2 would also be too easy, but ehhh
and 3 i was not for either but close enough that odyn being insane pulled it through.
Ohh i was expecting Lord Marrowgar to be on the list ... He was really annoying with chance to cast spike and flame on the same player! We never had a problem with ToC beast i was surprised with that pick ^^
For Kiggler on the Maulgar fight we just had a Boomy pop cds and do as much dmg as possible since they can't be polymorphed, and dedicated 1 healer to keeping that Boomy alive. If not that, then 2 hunters would sit on him with a healer keeping them up, since pets usually got the polymorph and could be dispelled with Mend Pet.
I was the boomy for my guild. Easiest job I ever had was that fight.
Rage Winterchill might be the easiest first boss in TBC lmao, even attumen the huntsman is more difficult.
Because you now know what do. But think about it with no knowledge of what the boss does and then start the fight.
@@bochelkachel with these criteria, every boss in wow history is very hard.
@@MrPeaceFroggy well not really but some are and the list is about which is the hardest of the first bosses of a raid when you do it for the first time because of unknow mechanics like destroying all the eggs while MC the boss.
you didn’t prog tbc did you lmao
Today. Back in the day.. Well not that much group were able to do this.
Rage Winterchill wasn't difficult at all for groups that had managed to kill Kael'thas - in fact, Winterchill was one of the easiest "reward bosses" for reaching a new raid tier.
The Restless Cabal inside of Crucible of Storms: "Am I a Joke to you?!"
What about Patchwerk in Naxx 40? Even in classic era this first boss was considered one of the hardest and most dangerous.
I remenber our strat for halfus was using 3 tanks to release the drakes and so tanks wouldnt take so much damage
Bro our guild used to have all of the off tanks and hunters kite the Razorgore adds by spamming demo shout in a figure 8 while 4 groups of DPS and healers would DPS down the adds and kill the magesas they passed. It was so fucking scuffed.
Would love to see a vid on the history of stats. especially the progression of health pools going from 4k in classic to 4m in legion, and purges
4 million was nothing. IIRC, back in late stages of Cata or MoP, before the first stat squish, I saw a druid tank will nearly 1 billion HP. I want to say it was Cata since I specifically remember seeing a druid tank (I was healing) with an obscene amount of health in H Vortex Pinnacle.
@@Dimumouto The first stat squish was the prepatch to WoD at the end of MoP. Also, your memory isn't correct. Nobody had anywhere near that much hp ever.
@@claytonreeves150 doing some searching and you're right. It may have been a druid tank in Cata with 1 million health instead, that expansion DID release 12 years ago.
goddamn.
@@Dimumouto I think it was those instances of bears having over 1 million hp that started the ball rolling for the stat squish in the first place. What surprised me was how fast everything re-inflated over just two expansions, leading to the second squish.
@@claytonreeves150 right it's crazy that we literally just did a squish and we are already back up to where we are. Dps are already doing 100k in some pulls.
Razorgore was difficult because in 2005, people had very bad computers and internet connections as well as the fact that no one really knew properly how the fight even worked or what to do and just had to trial and error to figure it all out. Definitely why he was so challenging.
I remember having a lot of trouble with Wrathion
I love your videos that give me nostalgia and remind me of the fun and unknown or hidden things. ty
Magmaw sounds like a nightmare. Imagine being a healer on that fight. Fuck me, imagine being the Hunter on that fight! You fuck up one time and the entire raid wipes and EVERYONE _KNOWS_ it was you.
if you pause at 7:44, Acidmaw looks like he's happy and smiling :)
Man I loved battle for mount hyjal although most of that came from the Warcraft3 mission nostalgia thinking about how I was playing the rts but I was just one of the units and not the guy who was in fact building aproximly 40 balistas to kill archy when ho hit janias base
So we had a TOV boss, but did you not consider Restless Cabal from crucible of storms something different enough? I think it’s valid either way, just curious what your thoughts were. It was a crazy boss if you classify it as a “first boss”
I knew it'd be Razorgore at #1. Between him and Vael'estreasz BWL's first two bosses killed so many guilds.
19:50 We didn't do anything that clever back in the day. We had hunters trying to kite the big dragons all over the room for some reason.
The hfc fight was awesome
I remember Rage Winterchill being easy mode especially after beating KT
Magmaw was a fun fight, I really enjoyed the mechanics of it.
I feel like it was the true start on hunters being the mechanic class. Doing that fight with or without a hunter that knew what they were doing was such a big difference.
Wow ... shocked Ragneros didn't make the cut lol or at least honorable mention lol
halfus and omnotron defense system just don't get enough respect considering the absurd amount of interrupts and crazy cast times of them. oh yeah and blizz just kinda forgot to account for the fact that a 10 man raid only had a third of the interrupters. Most 10 man guilds were just stuck on 1/13 for that tier for WEEKS. The wind council was also kinda crazy.
blizz really didn't know how to balance 10 and 25 with each other...
definitely agree on these
i think u could do a part 2 even… the first boss of dragon soul is weird because of the bosss room and trash could run up… also the first boss of firelands same reason… and definitely wrathion from nyalotha
I did progressed later on the bug, and that boss was one of the best designed one ever exsisted. It was an easy boss, once you knew what does what, and how to deal with them, it was a really forgiving boss too, because if someone died, you could still down the boss, the enrage timer wasnt hard. Most of his mechanics could be cheesed like getting from 1 platform to another via warlock portal, 1 tank going earlier, steampeding roar etc. And outside of song of empress, nothing oneshots, on heroic the echo can be solo tanked, with a meele swapping or even 2 dps tanking it like warrior rotating defensive cds, which you had like 3, dk in the same position etc. Tho it was a pain farming it, because you could easly wipe on it, any time and puging it was a pain jn the ass, because yes, you could fail something once, and not die, or 1 or 2 ppl die, but even after doing it dozens of time, of you misstep, got confused or blink at the wrong moment and panices afterwards, you could die, and ppl were failing stuff like no tomorrow, and died like they get paid for it..overall, it was the most fun boss in the raid for me (maybe because the second and 4th were gimmick bosses), the 3rd one was a gear check, the 5th was one of if not the most hated boss of all time y and the last one was a snoze fest and a cake walk after downing the 5th.)
Razorgore destroyed many many guilds. We were able to do the fight relatively fast, but more than half of the guilds that completed MC on my server disbanded on him and Vael. BWL was brutal.
no mention for restless cabal in crucible of storms?
You did fight Hallfus by releasing all drakes at once since at start he got the dmg% taken instant when drakes got free not killed. few times where more fun to be a firemage
Is it just me or every video I check hiru shows a new channel to subscribe?
1st boss in Sunwell was a pain
For me flame leviathan was the most annoying. Although it was easy but the vehicle combat in wrath was too much already
Flame Levi in Ulduar? Hmm have to disagree a bít. The boss itself was a bit annoying yes, but the clearing of ALL that trash, that was pretty cool! We had our guildmembers constantly team up with the same drivers and vehicles and gotten pretty good at shooting évery damn thing that moved. It was time-consuming yes, and after many months, it did became a bit boring, but thats the case with every raidboss after a while.
I dó miss those times. Clearing Flame Levi-trash, or the Battle for Wintergraps. Good times :)
Rage Winterchill? Really? That was probably the easiest 25 man fight in the entire expansion, including Gruul and HKM (and loot reaver/lurker below). Only got 20 people attuned to Hyjal? Go and get your free T6 level gear. I guess having to redo the trash if you wiped would make it qualify as annoying, but that's something I just learned because I've never wiped on that boss, and one-shotting new bosses in the days before difficulty split was not a common occurrence. It didn't happen frequently enough to make it annoying.
Great Video!
I wont rest until you do a top 10 best max lvl zones (Like suramar, argus, etc) and a top 10 worst max lvl zones. Plase make it happen
You forgot the Crucible of Storm raid,first bosses:The Restles Cabal,i think they deserve to be on this list.
sometimes you do changes of specs over time - i would like to hear about shadow - it is weird, i was sorta bad at shadow in legion and bfa, but the change how he works now helped me a lot - also i remember that in cata they had alternative dmg dealing other than dots - mind spike mind blast combo