Learjet 35A Teterboro Approach Crash • NTSB Animation
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Click to subscribe! bit.ly/subAIRBOYD
Credit: National Transportation Safety Board - NTSB Full docket go.usa.gov/xnsUu
Crash During Circling Approach to Runway 1 at Teterboro Airport Teterboro Airport Teterboro, New Jersey May 15, 2017 CEN17FA183
This two-dimensional animated reconstruction shows the sequence of events in the accident, which occurred on May 15, 2017, about 1529 eastern daylight time, when a Learjet 35A, N452DA, departed controlled flight while on a circling approach to runway 1 at Teterboro Airport, Teterboro, New Jersey.
The sequence of events was reconstructed based on information from radar data, the airplane’s Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System (EGPWS), the airplane’s cockpit voice recorder (CVR) transcript, Air Traffic Control (ATC) radio communications, and aircraft performance data. Selected comments from the CVR transcript and ATC communications are displayed as text along with the time they occurred. A sequence of still-image map graphics is used to provide an overview of the circumstances of the accident and the plane’s position as time advanced. Still images are followed by a continuous animation of the accident airplane, beginning from 15:27 to the time of the accident at 15:29. The animation does not depict the weather or visibility conditions.
The animation is then followed by a video clip showing the airplane crashing in a parking lot less than one mile southwest of the Teterboro airport. The animation includes audio replay of ATC communications and audio narration. The animation begins with a picture of the accident aircraft, a Learjet 35A, N452DA. An overall map of the area shows the origin of the flight at Philadelphia International Airport, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to the destination at Teterboro airport, Teterboro, New Jersey, with a straight-line distance of about 80 nautical miles and a flight time of about 25 minutes.
The filed flight plan with a requested altitude of twenty-seven thousand feet for a planned distance of about 120 nautical miles is depicted in white, and the Air Traffic Control cleared route to fly at four-thousand feet is shown in blue. Subsequently, the airplane’s actual ground track is shown at selected times over the course of the flight by a white arrow indicating the airplane’s position and heading, and the magenta line tracing the ground track.
The wide area map view is changed to a more focused map view displaying the four airports in the area: Teterboro Airport, Newark Liberty International Airport, John F. Kennedy International Airport, and LaGuardia Airport. The location of MetLife stadium south of Teterboro Airport and the navigational waypoints VINGS, DANDY and TORBY are also indicated. Ground tracks of previous aircraft flying the same circling approach that was assigned to the accident airplane are presented as white lines to show typical approach paths.
Wind direction and speed is indicated. The orientation for the Instrument Landing System (ILS) localizer for runway 6 is indicated, and the waypoint TORBY is highlighted as the waypoint where airplanes were typically told to begin the circling approach to runway 1. The map view again changes to an even more focused map view concentrating on the last 2 minutes of the flight as the airplane approached Teterboro Airport.
The position of the airplane is depicted in a continuous real time animation. The right side of the screen shows selected statements from the CVR and ATC transcript as text appearing at the time indicated in the transcript. The statements are attributed to the Captain, the SIC (Second-in-Command) and New York approach (APP-NYC) or Teterboro tower (TWR-TEB).
The airplane’s airspeed and altitude are indicated at the bottom of the frame, along with the local time. The animation transitions to a video captured by a security camera showing the airplane as it impacted the ground at a right bank angle of about 125 degrees.
AIRBOYD -
#AIRBOYD #AvGeek
![[REAL ATC] MD-80 DELTA CRASH at La Guardia Airport](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/biDnVJ6EqA8/mqdefault.jpg)
Early on in my flight training, my original CFI was terrific. He was professional and pleasant. Each flight was a challenging and positive experience. Then he got the call from the airlines. My next CFI had the attitude of the captain in this video. An arrogant know-it-all who made me feel tense and apprehensive. I flew one single flight with him. After I landed and secured the airplane, I walked to the FBO and requested another instructor who turned out to be just as terrific as my original CFI. If you're not comfortable with your instructor for any reason, do yourself a favor, make the change.
John, the words terrific and terrible. The first 5 letters are the same. I suggest you use another word.
Same happened to me
@@aineahmed9963 why are you replying to me?
@@jlockwood65 The United States is very small. We all almost know each other.
@@32SQUID sorry my mistake - sorry I offended u terribly
The guy in the stolen Q400 had a better grasp of what he was doing than these guys
Completely different scenario.
The Q400 guy wasn’t concerned about airspace and altitude restrictions or talking on the radio and accepting clearances and complying with instructions or giving briefings and standard calls in a two crew environment or flying an approach profile and landing the aircraft.
It’s easy to just throw a plane around in VFR conditions until it crashes. It’s not easy to fly it safely and professionally.
@@Bartonovich52 That's basically my point that while the Q400 kid obviously wouldn't have concern for proper procedures his situational awareness and basic airmanship were still superior to the professional lear jet crew that not only completely lacked SA they lost control of a perfectly controllable airplane. The q400 kid never lost control his crash was intentional
How was his situational awareness better?
They held departures at Sea Tac to clear the airspace, it was a beautiful VFR day, and ATC was giving him rather general instructions to stay away from or head toward certain areas which he didn’t really comply with.
He didn’t know that his fuel was going to go down as fast as it was, and after he did his barrel roll he said one of his engines was messed up-likely from fuel starvation or over temp/over torque-so the crash may not have been entirely intentional.
Yes... it’s impressive that he was able to fly that aircraft... but his best day was still worse than this crew’s worse day. They were wondering whether he could even pull off a straight in visual approach and landing to the AFB.. never mind a speed and altitude and airspace restricted ILS circling approach.
@@Bartonovich52 The kid in the Q400 was flying the plane to the best of his abilities the crew in that lear jet were passengers in their own plane with the illusion of control. If that jet crew displayed any less awareness they would have been asleep that wasn't an accident it was arrogance or complete incompetence.
Flying a plane to the best of your abilities does not equal good situational awareness. It’s precisely why we have minimum training standards for licensed pilots. Moving the controls and physically operating the aircraft is nothing compared to pilot decision making and situational awareness.
In spite of all this crew did wrong, there are still a ton of things this crew did right in comparison to the Q400 kid.
They were licensed and approved to fly the aircraft.
The aircraft was fuelled for the expected flight.
The weather was checked-even though it was hours old.
The takeoff was done properly without squealing brakes and smoking tires without clearance into the middle of heavy traffic.
They filed a flight plan-even though it had the wrong altitude for such a short flight. They stuck to the lateral portion of the filed flight plan or as cleared-only on approach did they screw up vectors and intercepts and profiles and the circling maneuver.
The captain realized late in the flight how close he was and that he needed to get the ATIS so he’d be ready for approach and landing. The Q400 kid probably didn’t even know what ATIS was and had no intentions of landing anyways.
So, sorry, I still disagree with you.
My dad was certified in a Lear from the mid 1960s until he retired in 1996. I asked him about this crash. He stated that just about any mistake that could be made WAS made in this flight. The Learjet is a wonderful airplane, but it isn't a particularly easy plane to fly, the margin between controlled flight and uncontrolled is very thin.
Always know when to add power, level the wings, and go around. Totally avoidable. The captain was so far behind the plane, I'm surprised he was in the crash.
i know,...right !
A OK Even more bizarre, why do we still not know his name??
I wood I want you to do, is go stand in front of the airplane and put your hand on the nose. That’s the last time you’re going to be in front of the airplane tonight
That is terrible. Still gave it a thumbs-up. I have to believe that the captain was somehow impaired that day. Don't think he would made it to his position if this was how he normally performed his duties.
@Richard G doesn't look like we'll ever know, but even though pilots get physicals. On job sites I lost count of guys who were borderline diabetic, non linear stuff: dementia, or what we call "having a bad week:, and age has nothing to do with it. A HS friend passed on his couch at the age of 27 after almost a decade of flying and physicals. No idea what happened.
I'd actually met the SIC a month before the crash. Super nice kid.
At the time of the crash, I was working with his instructor at CAE in a Citation 550 simulator.
A further year after that, I was working for a cargo company in Texas where he had washed out of training.
Its amazing how closely his and my career paralleled each other.
Both pilots had trouble passing check rides.
One ended up in a crash one did not .
Never seen such an unprofessional captain!, no checklists, no proper radio communications, no CRM. Thanks for the informative video.
CAPTAIN WILL BE DOING THE CHECKLIST FOR ETERNITY NOW AND SAYING SORRY TO HIS CO-PILOT FOR KILLING HIS ASS.
Shoot for all we know he was too busy on his cell phone texting
@@blakjack3053 LOL
idk van zanten from the tenerife disaster was pretty bad
I feel sorry for the first officer. He knew he was in over his head and asked the captain to take over, but he didn’t. Captain killed both of them.
Pantdino Very true.
He was a second officer who knew he wasn't certified to fly, just observe.
Exactly
Suicide murder?
spot on my friend. The SIC asked the PIC multiple times to take the controls.
As a 767 Captain with over 13,000 hours it is painful to watch this video seeing so many mistakes made and SOP not being followed. And after reading the Flying Mag article I can't for the life of me figure how these two ended up in an aircraft cockpit! The definition of professional is doing the right thing when no one is watching. Thank God no one else was killed. RIP.
As a completely unqualified person who can't fly and had no medical training, I feel qualified to say that the captain was impaired by drugs and alcohol. I suggest a review of training procedures and hiring practices by the company. I suggest digging up his corpse and charging it with murder.
@@jennydiazvigneault5548 You aren't even qualified to know standard NTSB investigations. They would have looked for that and they didn't mention it because it was not a factor.
@@glennquagmire3258 I would have to agree. Every crash involves a toxicology report done on all of the pilots. Nothing was mentioned in the investigation as a factor.
@@glennquagmire3258 I'm qualified enough to know a flight plan when its filed, and how to follow it. Your flight hours means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as far as I'm concerned. Your NTSB "investigation" into John Kennedy Jr., as well as TWA flt. 800, shows that, at best, your FAA is comprised of criminals.
Oh @ Stratoleft. Lulz... you’re just showing your inexperience.
Flight plans in IFR flight are mostly for basic intentions and in case of communication failures.
You accept your IFR clearance, and then enroute you ask for or are cleared different things.
The type of approach you do is never in the flight plan. Usually only the arrival STAR is... which can be for multiple runways or if the runway changes or you might get recleared a different STAR or put on vectors for an approach.
It’s when you are cleared the approach that you have to comply with that clearance provided you’ve accepted it in the form of a readback.
So fly heading XXX to intercept the localizer, cleared ILS 6 circling 1 was the clearance he should have complied with.
Not in the flight plan whatsofucking ever.
Stick to flight simulator.
Controller: cross DANDY at 1500.
Captain: Cross DANDY at 200.
That sounds about right.
How can a pilot think they were "hundreds of miles away" on a flight from PHA to TEB?
Exactly
Vaccine injured.
@@stelvis7413 exactly. Flu shots. Thank you for agreeing and seeing the light.
suicide pilot making this look like a mistake
This video leaves out a lot of cockpit recordings and details and this was discussed in the cockpit recordings. The Captain did not know because he did not have a GPS. The copilot offered to let Captain use his iPad and the Captain declined.
Before I pilot my next flight I'm going to take some flying lessons.
Except you are going to need to trust a pilot to teach you to be one.
@@Chevy3278 My doctor was trained by a doctor.
That sounds like a good idea 👌
Me too bro
Why? Lessons are a ripoff!
The sloppiness and incompetence of these two pilots is astounding. Thankfully, no one else was hurt.
I am reminded of an old saying: Takeoffs are optional, but landings are mandatory. These two should have stayed on the ground.
Someone told me that it was 10% getting it up in the air, 20% keeping it up in the air, and 70% getting the plane back on the ground in one piece. It used to be that most anybody could get a driver's license but only a few could their pilot's license; now it seems like most anybody can do both!
@@janfuger1517 A license is not a guarantee of ability!
After yelling "Airspeed" 2 or 3 times to no effect, maybe he should have just slammed the throttles forward himself.
Kinda reminded of UA FLT 173, flight crew kept trying to tell the captain they had fuel problems while he was trying to diagnose another issue. They ran out of fuel over a populated area near a airport.
Coulda shoulda......
The SIC had extreme difficultly flying the plane and had no business touching anything.
9:03
Tower: "You gonna start that turn?"
Captain: "Ah... unable. Can we try the approach again please?"
Minor impact on your ego, much less of an impact on the ground. Two lives saved by one simple admittance that you screwed up.
i was curious if they could make a left turn around to runway one; i think the copilot would have had to ask the Capt if he can see the runway from his side of the cockpit; .. but he just wasn't comfortable; I feel bad for the young co pilot though
I come back every so often ; i have to with this flight because i get the feeling that flying every plane is a different experience. This is probably the case with a small jet like this one. But it's just a little too big to pull off a Tomcat stunt (fighter jet). I only have Cessna experience which to me is like being inside an angry mosquito
The SIC knew he had no business flying that aircraft and probably suspected that the "captain" didn't either.
Go around! Jesus. They aren't flying a glider. If sufficient fuel, go someplace easier.
DumbledoreMcCracken No place is “easier” for a momo like this captain. He had a history, apparently.
Too bad the SIC didn't have a qualified TIC.
This is such a strange case. It's almost as if the Captain wanted this outcome.
no, he was likely imparied to some degree and thought his shit-hot, last minute antics would save the situation.
@Anton Zuykov - The question is then how the hell did he get his pilot's licence and type certification rating (not to mention a job with that company)?
SkylineToTheSeaAndMe No
@@Sovereign_Citizen_LEO Did he????
Nobby Barnes Pathetic crybaby toddler 😂😂😂
These guys had no business in that plane. I am a former Naval Aviator, and flew the F-14. I flew a Citation III with a former Air Force F-4 pilot. We always went by every check list, double checked each other, and always determined who was driving and who was backup, before we lit the fires
So many fuckups in soo little time... if there was anything left of that captain, they shouldve pulled a toxicology report
That is quite possibly the exact reason for this incident.
That was my first thought , was this captain impaired or intoxicated? It certainly seems he was
The tox reports came back clean... this was pure, unadulterated, incompetence - from both of them. The SIC had over 450 hours in a Lear and he still couldn't hold a heading or altitude? Whomever checked these two out was also criminally incompetent.
@@steveburton5825 he held a heading just fine. His captain told him conflicting crap. Maybe we should pull a toxicology report on *you*
@@ivanabcdefg9375 You're beyond help if you can't even follow a youtube video...
Thats just scary knowing that guy was somehow a licensed pilot.
had to have been intoxicated.
@@andytaylor1588 I think it was a suicide mission...the guy had given up. The SIC should have called a mayday and attempted to land the thing himself after knocking the "captain" out somehow.
I though both of those things as well. What the fuck. So weird. Wish there was analysis as well! Crazy.
not no more is he a licensed pilot
@@ldlink3935 sic had NO control whats so ever with plane 40second before crash plane was all over the place durning the off #6 approach.
Where do these people come from and how do they get jobs? Just mindblowing...
More common than many realize - last fall a biz jet over ran runway at Greenville SC broke in two - crew fatals, pax serious injuries. Pilot was technically not certificated for that a/c.
Mutual admiration society is in full force with these two. I hope I don't fly with their equals.
@@andyburk4825 IT was a falcon 50, beautiful aircraft, ignorant crew, however RIP
@@naughtyUphillboy the video of the crash shows it's a lear.....tip tanks.
@@naughtyUphillboy Why rest in peace? Thank goodness they did not kill anyone else.
I am in aviation but not a pilot, after watching this and reading quite a few of the comments I think the lack of cockpit communication, and obvious distraction from the left seat was very likely caused by texting. The video reminded me of my vain attempts to navigate and land the Lear in MS Flight Sim in the late 90s after 3 successful Cessna 172 landings.
A lot of confusion in the cockpit, and a captain not qualified as a Lear instructor. Tragic and totally preventable.
The most unprofessional flight crew I ever heard of. Lots of lessons to learn from this one.
Haha you wrote this months before that Pakistan flight 8303 - u should look that one up. They werent as arrogant but seemed just as inept
This company must be desperate for pilots.
When the known course of the Lear was bringing them to within visual range of two other airports it is shocking to hear such little regard was placed upon their approach.
Thank God that Captain was not controlling an Airbus A380 or any large commercial aircraft.
For god so loved the world, that he crashed this plane.
a380 wudda been gtfo
At least the big planes have auto land....
@@markh1427 Thank you god for all the plane crashes - Amen - cora madonda massondanda (that's typing in tongues).
@@markh1427 So does the Lear. I'm almost certain this plane can land itself.
They zigzagged back-and-forth, deviating from the flightpath multiple times, violated airspeed requirements multiple times, ignored altitude instructions, ignored radio frequency instructions, failed to circle properly for approach to runway 1. This flight was doomed from the start. Fortunately, no one else was on the plane.
Learjet 35 crash in san San Diego this week is eerily similar.
Talk about being miles behind the aircraft. Incredible that they would even be in in such a high performance aircraft.
This appears to be more of suicide and murder on the captains part.
I had this feeling too, watching and listening to this. Like everything was going according to his plan. *shivers*
That's what I thought as well. Just like MH370
@tinwoods Or a very smart one.
Reminds me of a guy that worked for Skycraft in the 1980s. Won't mention his name but he was a total know-it-all. I could see him doing something like this. How he ever got and kept his job was always beyond me. Some just slip through the cracks.
Awful, rest in peace. This went wrong from takeoff to crash. Even though it was complete lack of situational awareness, this was an instant missed approach once the realized they were lined up incorrectly a mile out. Puzzling.
Makes me wonder how many tragic accidents could have been avoided if only the pilot swallowed his pride instead of trying to pull off a miracle to save face. Generally speaking, I think many pilots have huge egos, thinking they are the smartest person in the cockpit, maybe some are, but everybody makes mistakes, these accident videos are proof of that.
A student pilot who gotten to the point of soloing has more comprehension of flying than these guys did.
I've experienced pilots of all hours and experiences that have egos and worse off complacency. An instructor that had complacency and "flight school pressure" ended my flying. Situations become routine and people become lazy. Okay for flight sim and video games. NOT okay for real life. It ends in tragedy or disappointment.
Teterboro Learjet Accident • NTSB Board Meeting Video czcams.com/video/xHnthAf1di4/video.html
Jesus! What this captain did is criminal.
He should receive the death penalty! Oh wait......
What FAR did he violate? They were operating under part 91 by the way.
@@ronwilliams357 He was beyond incompetent. He was not fit to be a captain at all if you simply watched the video. He didn't run any checklist, he gave wrong information to the SIC, and ignored the SIC at times. And you're asking "wHat FAR dId hE vIoLaTe?"
As a non flyer, it staggers me that ATC rattle off instructions so quickly.
In any other environment, if your goal is to be understood, you speak slowly and clearly.
Just seems to increase pressure in the cockpit, at the very least it seems unhelpful
xackly!
You get used to it as a pilot and can rattle it back just as fast.
This how things are in a busy airspace if you cant handle it dont fly near nyc
This is sobering. I've seen the NTSB videos of security camara footage. There are at least 5 angles to the crash... shocking.
NTSB Docket CEN17MA183 go.usa.gov/xnsUu
Wow, it's like the pilot never flew a plane before. He did nothing the controllers asked him to do. How bizarre how bizarre.
The Captain was not flying the plane, the SIC was. And the SIC had a terrible training record, failed almost everything and crashed twice in the simulator. That's why he was only authorized to call out instruments.
While I agree with pretty much all the comments I've read, I'm going to add one more thing. (Forgive me if somebody already said this, and I just didn't see it.) ATC bares some responsibility here too. They are one link in the chain. Ever heard a controller say something like, "Too far left/too low for a safe approach, execute missed approach. Fly heading XXX, Climb and maintain X thousand. Contact Approach, 123.45?" Teterboro Tower is a RADAR facility, and at some point should have told the crew they were no longer in a position to safely circle to runway 1. At the point when the tower controller asked if they were going to start their turn, he should have instead told them to break it off, give them some climb out instructions, and sent them back to approach to try again.
totally makes sense! the controller was probably more interested in other trivial things than landing that jet.ATC people have blood in their hands but they probably were not even in the NTSB investigative radar.
Wow! just listening to this video only I'm struck by the amount of confusion/uncertainty and lack of situational awareness on the part of this Captain. Anyone know if he was ultimately confirmed as impaired??? My first thought was the guy knew he was impaired and didnt want to assume command. FO seems to know they are in trouble and hand off control to the Captain - but Captain refuses (?!)
This video leaves out a ton of cockpit recordings and details. There was nothing wrong with the Captain. He was just distracted and busy trying to show the copilot how to fly the plane the whole time. The copilot had a very terrible training track record, failed multiple tests and crashed the plane twice on approach in the simulator, basically failed everything and that's why he was only authorized to call out instruments. In the simulator it was noted that he had a hard time just simply maintaining airspeed. Instead of realizing this kid is terrible at flying the plane and taking the controls back, the Captain tried to make him fly it anyways. When the Captain finally took controls, for some reason he still attempted to land on runway 1 even though they were in no position to to do. He stalled it and crashed.
@@SOLDOZER OK - I'll accept your premise. Bottom line - total loss of situational awareness by the captain - - FO seems to know they were in trouble when he suggests handling of command to the captain - captain ignores the FO's request (for reasons you suggest that he was too busy "training" or helping the FO????)
Lesson number one!!! Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. They got behind the airplane and failed to break the error chain. Then they paid for it.
I’ve done this approach many times, it can be a can of worms if you don’t brief it. These guys didn’t do any briefings or follow SOP’s do Darwin Award it is.
I used to do this approach when I flew out of TEB, I can’t believe what they must have been seeing. The approach is tight enough even when you make that normal turn but to do it like a mile away is insane
Gregg Re no it’s very doable as long as you make that turn from the fix and fly around the MetLife stadium.
I'm just a private pilot but the dreadful "flying" here is thankfully very rare. When ATC give a pilot an instruction that has to be complied with unless an emergency is declared. Ignoring the "Captain" for a moment, the SIC had no business to hold that position on that flight if he wasn't capable of completing it to a safe and successful landing. As for the "Captain" ... he had no business to be in charge of that flight .. or any other flight ... the SIC should have had enough experience to take control of the aircraft ... to override the idiot "Captain" ... unbelievable,
The SIC was in control of the aircraft for all but the last 15 seconds. And no you don't fight for control when you're in a stall 400 feet AGL.
So much is wrong with how this flight is conducted. It's hard to know where to begin. These pilots had no business flying. No CRM, no company procedures, unqualified FO, unprofessional (possibly incompetent) captain, no proper radio communications. I mean where do you begin?
How could the pilot not realize he was heading down to the ground rapidly, the footage reveals it was a clear day?
Not a pilot, but the ATC talks so quickly but I guess if you know what your doing it's easier to comprehend what is being said, but do they talk that fast because they are extremely busy. Kinda seems like the problem with doctors prescriptions, in that the speed-talking increases chances of miscommunication. Just like sloppy hand writing.
@@toddlavigne6441 - Yeah, controllers in the NYC area are extremely busy. And you're correct, as a pilot, you're used to a a stream of information coming rapidly from ATC, and if you're head is in the game and you're not impaired, it's not a problem. I doubt this incompetent PIC ever even glanced at the approach plate for Teterboro before flying into some of the busiest airspace in the world.
Thanks for the info. How can someone who appears to be this incompetent
ever get their license/ approval to fly this small jet? Seems as though this accident should never have happened.
@@toddlavigne6441 The SIC made the worst mistake: *he* was flying (whether he "should have been" or not isn't relevant) and *he* confirmed the turn but *failed* to exercise it, which led to the immediate loss of lift due to altitude loss via the abrupt low speed turn; resulting in the stall, roll to inversion; and the final brutal crash.
thanks for the feedback....terrible crash
Thanks for this. I vote for as many as you can so we can learn from others mistakes.
I am not a pilot but I clearly understood the controller's instructions. This crash should never have occurred.
Reading about the incident in Flying magazine it looks like even the captain wasn't qualified to occupy the seat he was in. Both pilots had multiple failed check rides.
Read the accident report. Both were properly qualified. And you can retake a checkride if you fail.
@@kewkabe The SIC was rated a 0 out of 4 in his training and crashed multiple times in the simulator. That's why he was only authorized to call out instruments.
Wow, that takes incompetence to another level altogether.
I can't imagine not using at minimum a short verbal checklist with another crewmember present. Mindblowing. Checklists are drummed into ANY pilot by the time he/she has soloed their first single engine propeller airplane. I don't get it.
it's called a god complex
Remember that first day in flight school when you heard "Stay AHEAD of your aircraft? THIS is what happens when you're way behind the curve and have lost almost all SITNESS. Making a turn like that is OK in your 182 on the short final into 27 at Oshkosh...not so much in a Lear.
TakeDeadAim - No, a turn like that in any airplane is not ok on short final. Many stall/spin accidents occur on short final, low & slow, with flaps & gear hanging out, while overshooting the runway center-line. One thing I remember well from early training is my wonderful, old, former military instructor practically yelling at me "NEVER, EVER bank that much on downwind to base or base to final!" While yanking the yoke out of my hands and banking back to the right. I still, thankfully, hear him to this day on many approaches.
A turn like that is what it looked like Jack Roush tried to do when he crashed his jet at OshKosh. The approach looked more like Roush was trying to show-off, lucky outcome.
It's amazing how many planes crash because of a stall, almost all of them could have been avoided if they had only watched their airspeed. If I was a pilot, I think that would be my number one obsession.
Keeping a close watch on your airspeed would make you a very safe pilot.
You can stall at any airspeed. You clearly have zero experience and just another keyboard pilot.
No professionalism at all here. I believe the captain must have been super distracted about something not associated with flying that day.
He was checking CZcams for landing procedures.
he was doing blow in the cockpit
Completely the PIC's fault. This incident clearly demonstrates that there is absolutely no tolerance for not following procedures. That's why it exists...
What sort of 'state' was this Cap in? Impaired?
@@alleycatvietnam Good article, thanks for posting that link!
@@alleycatvietnam OMG! These pilots were a disaster. Their records speak for themselves! I encourage everyone to read this article.
@Ranger.Infantry At no stage did ATC give instructions to turn downwind.
@Ranger.Infantry No probs, but if what you say was said, wasn't actually said ('turn downwind') then your 'joke' pretty much falls flat. It just becomes 'manufactured'.
My thoughts/question also. Aside from the violation of a bunch of rules, he didn't know how long the flight was going to be from the start. I'd say he made many poor decisions before even launching. The impairment could have been anything from drugs to a massively concerning issue away from the cockpit, based on listening to this. His 2 weeks prior to the accident flight would have been revealing.
The problem started when captain thought they were hundreds of miles away and never caught up, then found the true stall speed trying to salvage the approach. Good vid of to much complacency and a true shortage of qualified pilots.
Maybe the problem started when the captain got into the cockpit. Not disagreeing with you. How could he think they were hundreds of miles away when he should’ve known the distance from the get go? Maybe he was being cocky. Being cocky cost 2 lives and damaged families.
@@jugheadjones5458 Cockpit voice recordings left out of this video, this is discussed. The Captain had no GPS, the SIC told him he was wrong and offer Captain the use of his iPad.
Jeebus cripes, wtf! No adherence to company policy, not complying with ATC, no situational awareness... no wonder they lawn-darted the Lear. There is no room nor time for that garbage in aviation especially in a high performance jet. Everything happens a lot faster which means you are in serious trouble much faster. Glad they didn't have any passengers or kill anyone on the ground.
The video certainly eliminates the need to ask if anyone survived it...
Thank you for having the CVR it really adds a lot and I love the narration 🌟 New subscriber here
At no point was the Captain ahead of this aircraft. Poor souls. RIP.
This was the most incompetent and disengaged captain I think I've ever heard of. One gets the impression from his actions that he was impaired by alcohol or drugs. How does he think they're still hundreds of mies away if he filed a flight plan? Unbelievable!
The poor first officer, as is too often the case, showed complete deference to the captain. It's a shame he didn't say "Dude! I'm not doing this! Take the g@&&am controls!"
Even if in theory there was zero flight plan - the aircraft has top notch GPS that shows you exactly where you are. Its not like he was flying with a paper map, stopwatch and compass.
@@rinzler9775 He did not have GPS that's why. The SIC offered him to use his iPad by Cap declined. This video leaves out some details.
Having the PIC and SIC in disagreement is a dangerous situation. Sometimes having thousands of hours can be just as dangerousxas too little - it develops a potential immortality power that because nothing happenned in the last 10,000 hours, then "all I do is good" thinking.
@@rinzler9775 Captain was like 52 years old and only had 6,000 hours. Another oddity.
Let’s all talk as quick as possible and hope everything works out fine.
After watching many of these crash videos,,it is clear that living near a airport is dangerous.
Stupid very stupid statement
Ugh heartbreaking. Never push a bad approach...
Not heart breaking at all. Now if these two idiots had killed other that would be. They won't be around to do that and that is good.
For me, this highlights the requirement for a legal obligation upon airlines to pair junior/inexperienced pilots with experienced pilots with an excellent track record.
Reading the CVR transcripts of this reminds me a lot of the Air Florida crash in DC.
Both captains were about equally as incompetent & had first officers that were frustrated/intimidated by them.
I am surprised the military's flight anomaly detection system did not call for intervention.
Excellent NTSB explanation.
They were civilian, not military.
Can you imagine how messy that cockpit coordination was? That’s sad
Yes.
It was the surveillance video that cemented it.
Not sad. So glad they died and no one else.
@@ohwell2790 Can't use the word glad in any respect. Especially for the SIC... poor bastard.
@@MrFg1980 "cemented it"... that there's funny!
How did this guy get to be Captain?
Seems he just added a stripe.
@@NetCerpher or two..
Sporty's just sells four-stripe epaulets for $20 a pair.
I just kept asking "why?"
You and me both, buddy.
I'm not even a pilot but these guys were lost in space.
Not a pilot, here (and I'd probably crap myself flying thru any part of NYC airspace) but, it doesn't look complicated, I bet even I could do it. Fly to TORBY, turn right til you see the big stadium, turn left after the big stadium to get a visual on the runway, hand the controls back over to the guy who actually knows what he's doing to put it on the ground. Did I miss something?
Good addition to the airboyd vids.
No checklists? This guy was a cowboy.
This whole time I was thinking it was hard IMC. Looked like a perfect day. What a shame, it’s too bad some lessons are only learned this way.
WTF, capt was drunk. I knew I didn't want to watch this thing - avoided clicking it for weeks. How can he say we're doing it when no attempt is made, then both totally forgot about "lawn darts at the end." I've done circling in MD-80s at JFK and can tell you ATC has no patience for this. After 2 years I am going to amend my remarks -- in the wake of a similar L-35 crash at Gilespie, CA -- to say that ATC probably should have told them to go around when they went less than a mile out and still had not started the circling maneuver. They MIGHT have lived if they woke up to what was going on as they never established a stabilized approach and it only got worse throughout what they did.
The tox reports came back clean on both of them. They were both doing their best Leo DiCaprio imitation of being a pilot.
geezus christopher, shame on the management. And I place no blame at all on ATC. If anything they were a little too patient with this crew.
Definetily not doing their best.
@@steveburton5825 Leo, that’s exactly what I thought. Must have thought the SIC would carry him through. SIC at best knew he was over his head, and as soon as the PIC touched the stick, boom!
What was left of them to do tox tests ? Be fkn vaporised into mist
Thank God this wasn't a passenger jet flight
And neither bothered with the check list? Then it was inevitable. I drove past there 2 weeks later and while passing the airport, briefly turned my head, taking a quick glance, thinking about what had just happened. It gave me a sickening chill.
I'm not a pilot, but even if they had managed to land safely at Teterboro, wouldn't there have been enough done and documented to get them both grounded and/or fined?
Nope.
If they landed safely they would not get anything more than a "bonehead" mumbled by ATC.
WHen I was in the Air Force I caught a ride in a chase place (something like that) for F-15's from the base anyway it was a great flight but the SIC was new and nervous I dont think he ever landed one. Anyway he asked the pilot to take the controls about 1 minute from landing the pilot refused and told him he could do and talked him to landing which he did.
But man watching this made me realize how short life is. that plane is a rocket too , taking off and landing
The captain had to be impaired in order to demonstrate this level of incompetence.
That would make more sense but wasn't the case according to to the report.
Right now I am sitting at max 1 mile from that runway. I am from the town that overlooks TEB and the sound of those jets is the sound of home. The plane crashed at the DPW in Carlstadt and damaged a factory/warehouse, fortunately with no one killed.Those two fools could have killed many in the towns on the other side of Route 17.
I also read that the PIC wasn't cleared to fly the Lear either.
The dude was a SIC-0. Had no business at all doing anything but sitting there.
I think the Capt was on a suicide mission. How could anyone violate so many commands if he wasn't and surely he had flown this route many times.
Captain was not flying the plane. The SIC was.
Chilling to listen and see it happen
I have no idea how he could have died considering he was at least 50 miles behind the aircraft.
Didn’t know how long the flight was since he asked for higher altitude and wondered why they said approach and runways in use. All the while trying to teach and monitor this kid what sounds like basic flight maneuvers.
Had no situational awareness on the approach-even just tune up an NDB and watch the needle on the RMI.. you’ll know exactly where you are in relation to it-never mind the moving map I’m sure he had.
Not aware of the descent profile. Every good jet pilot knows 1000 feet/3 miles instinctively.
Not listening to his SIC who is getting nervous, completely helpless, and wants you to take control.
And finally... trying to salvage a bad approach by hot dogging a high performance aircraft rather than fling missed, collecting yourself, rebriefing, and attempting again.
Apparently, that captain is a shining example of "Fake it till you make it".
In this case that didn't work.
Someone needs to look at the company that facilitated this mess.
no the company was fine these guys just ignored all the rules the company had in place
Unfortunately for everyone concerned, this captain's total lack of the situational awareness resulted in a tragedy that could've been avoided by preparation. Even at the end, he could've gone around. The number of mistakes in this story is awful, even for a student pilot. Wow... Very sad.
I'm an investigator by profession. I've been up in small planes for professional reasons. When there are not 2 pilots, I mention: "Not to jinx us, but if something incapacitates you, what do I do to keep this thing flying until someone else can help?" Based on this limited "training," even I could recognize the multiple errors. **Now I will be checking the NTSB for mention of the record of the pilot's employer prior to getting on the aircraft.** The full NTSB report is worse than the summary already linked: www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1902.pdf
RIP. But there were errors not just on the flight. Like, when doing pre-employment record checks, if the previous employer does not respond -- you can hire the guy anyway. Period. (Clearly, at minimum the hire should be subject to continuing other methods to verify pilot history).
We all make mistakes. But both of these guys had a history... and most of us learn more quickly when we are held accountable. Instead they were passed on to another employer, who didn't particularly seem to care either.
Big difference going to Jets, and happens quickly. Yes PIC was incompetent.
I remember this accident very clearly. A family member of mine works for the FAA out of Philly so we had a few discussions of what could cause something like that. He expressed that he couldn't tm about this accident in particular but did say that previous accidents like this usually involved someone who has a serious mental problem or is under the influence. This plane flew above my house and where I was working that day. So sad how this captain not only committed suicide but also took a good man with him
Is it suicide??? Or is it just a simple case of D'oh, I have no clue what to do icide? I think the latter might ge the culprit.
Maybe you should not spout this type of comments without having all the facts and reading the NTSB official report. or better yet, cease to exist!
There is no way either these two people should have been at the controls of this aircraft, they displayed no airmanship whatsoever, from a retired Captain!
''We're still over Mexico'' - Captain
lots of wrong and paid the price... sad.
Really impressive both pilots f’d up that bad, that many times.
Truly baffles me. Never were they ahead of the approach.
The Actions of a mad man ,He took the second in command with him
As the SIC asked Clint Eastwood, " Excuse me captain but can you fly ?" Clint Eastwood, " No , never had a lesson. " and it still had a better ending that that Lear.
Important context: they were supposed to have a passenger onboard but he/she refused to join this leg because he/she said the airplane was “fishtailing” a lot during the previous leg and he/she decided to drive back instead. Best decision of his/her life.
That might explain why the captain was in such foul mood.
The captain was there in body, but not in mind.
"A background check on the captain discovered he had a 2002 driver’s license suspended due to an excess of points that was not reported on his most recent medical application as required. He was also in 1986 convicted of assault with a deadly weapon, a charge that was reduced to a misdemeanor, but was also not self-reported on his recent medical certificate.
The captain’s training records uncovered a number of failed checkrides, including a December 1996 disapproval for a certified flight instructor rating, a November 1997 disapproval for a commercial pilot certificate and a February 2001 disapproval for a multi-engine airline transport pilot certificate. He did eventually earn his commercial and ATP certificate."
"Training records from CAE reported issues with the captain transitioning to the left seat of the Learjet in October 2016. In July 2016, CAE records indicated the captain was found not proficient in circling approaches and not recommended for his type rating checkride. Specifically, the captain’s CAE instructor on July 17, 2016 reported to his boss that “the Captain had been out of the airplane for 7 years and the instructor could not recommend the Captain for a check ride due to a lack of proficiency.”
Excerpts from:
www.flyingmag.com/teterboro-learjet-crash-raises-questions-about-crew-qualifications