Great analysis. I sold my c300 mark II for this camera. My clients do not ask for a specific codec. I personally like shooting in 4K 60p, and c300 does not offer this and will not offer it in any updates (according to a canon Rep on some youtube). So, I will shoot the 4K MP4 and clients will be happy... then when something needs a more serious edge I will use the RAW light and eat cards for breakfast.
How do you like your C200/C100 MKII combo? I have the C100 MKII with a 90D for stills and a little 4K. I’m very interested in the C200 especially at today’s prices.
I think I'll stick with 10bit internal recording. The difference between 8 and 10 bit is huge when you do grading. Love that Canon image! Hate that Canon marketing!
The choice between the C200 and C300 II is going to be a very difficult one for a lot of people. As I say in the video, it will simply come down to that recording codec that works best for you and your work. Carl
Hi Carl - just ordered one (in Australia, for my CZcams channel). For me the decision came down to extending the versatility of my current setup - with things like generating background bokeh - and the killer autofocus. I'm currently shooting on GH5 and GH5s - and really looking forward to both of these capabilities in the C200, because bokeh and MF~T is a challenge, and Panasonic's video autofocus is rubbish (I currently manually focus everything, so I can't effectively move closer to the camera during a standup, shooting solo.) I'll continue to use the Panasonic cameras as B-cameras and for cramped environments, in cars, etc., because the image quality is very nice. Great analysis in your video, thank you. Your videos on the C200 really helped me make what I am sure will prove to be a solid decision.
The choice is clear, wait for the C300 Mark III or IV when it arrives with touchscreen, non-detachable audio ports, 4k w/ no sensor-cropping, 4k 60-120fps, 8/10/12-bit options, and 4:4:4 color.
+ProAV TV Maybe so. I just hate the intentional compromises. Put everything on there and I don't care if it's 3x-4x the cost, we'll buy it if it's worth it. There was a video like this comparing both C-cameras and the guy was literally begging Canon for a firmware upgrade so his C300 Mk 3 wouldn't be left behind. I can only imagine that the C300 Mark III will have everything the C200 has and then some, but we already know it will have intentional yet again.
Many thanks, glad the videos were helpful. As I say in the main review video, I am very grateful to canon for their help and collaboration. Otherwise these videos would just be impossible to make. Carl
To be honest, I completely agree. Canon should have included 4K 50/60p from day one in the C300 II. But they didn't, and its hard to know how much they can add via firmware. When I asked Canon UK they simply said they didn't know. I'm hopeful for 50/60p support, uncropped 120fps and the support for using the C200's touchscreen with the c300. But to be honest I doubt it will happen. Carl
Excuse me. This is not your You Tube channel to order people around. If you have an argument or rebuttal state it. Name calling and acting like a jerk is not an adequate response--unless maybe you're in grade school and bigger than the other kids.
As a 300 MKII owner, they better give us: - Use of that touchscreen on the c300mk2 - A firmware update to bring the 60p4k and/or the non-cropped 120p to the c300mk2 8 bit (i beleive it is a matter of more efficient compression rather than processing power & cooling) - A firmware update to bring the ability to record internally to RAW Light. If not i really should have bought a used red/alexa 5 months ago....
Canon has a way of not giving a hoot about you after they've got your money. How do you think the C300 mk II users felt after they bought the cam at 16,000.00 and after only a short while---months not years---Canon dropped the price to 12,000? Ripped off and stabbed in the back--that's how they felt and---from the remarks here---how they feel. The C200 is a second knife in the back to C300 mk ii owners. And I guarantee you Canon will do NOTHING to compensate the loyal C300 mk ii owners. They over charge you and stab you in the back. They really suck. If I owned the company I would fire everyone of their marketing people. Believe me. After they have sucked all the $$$ from you you'll never hear from them again. But here's the lesson: never buy a Canon product new. Hold out. Wait. In a VERY short time they will grow impatient for the slow sales because of their outrageous price tag, and drop the price. And if you are sucker enough to have paid their full price AGAIN you deserve what you get. Either wait them out and get the product at a fair price once market realities FORCE them to drop the price to something fair and reasonable, or simply find another product you like as well (if not better) for less money and go with that. If you do the likelihood that you will have gone with a different company that treats their customers with more contempt, disdain, and arrogance than Canon is microscopic. Of course dealers who want to sell Canon's latest and greatest will push the new thing. But if they had any care for their customers they would refuse to sell the new thing until Canon compensates their past loyal customers who were being shorted and back stabbed by Canon's horrific and chaotic marketing and PR. Do I make myself clear?
totally get why a lot of people hoped for more/earlier/upgrades... but don't agree that "canon doesn't care" I just think canon really wants to up their game and be the new alexa level "go to" camera and not fiddle with the trillion fights they'd need to have with the sub 10k price competitors that target "you tubers" with indie aspirations (this market is too saturated and not "gucci" enough) with the c700 not quite taking off as they'd probably hoped they're back drawing sword to protect their options on the lower end after all.. but sticking their proprietary overpriced tag on as a luxury tariff on us that do still see the bloody difference in color and do wish to up level our work and aspire for the cinematic color/look without learning mora about compensating for "odd-comings" in our camera than we focus on the actual cinematography itself (atlas that was my experience when using fs7 and ursa... to me - while i'd love to pay less for more- tre pricetag is just worth it
I totally agree with your video. I usually work on broadcast project and I was a little bit doubtfully about the C200... with your post, it's sure, I'll choose the C300 MKII for my future work. (actually I'm still using the C300 MKI, but she's getting old...) - Thanks a lot for your review.
I'll do a footage comparison at some point. But its mostly down to broadcast submission specs rather than visual quality (especially that you can see on youtube) Carl
Před 7 lety+2
Maybe the grading will tell the big difference, for instance color separation, if you try to isolate some skin color, perhaps is easy with the 410 Mbps. And also, i think, if you over-sharp something, there is less risk of bad sharpening with a higher bit rate. this is just based on my idea, I have also the C300 Mark II but can't really tell. Cheers!
I’m looking at the C70 but I love the form factor of the C200 & 300 MKII. I really like the C200’s price point in 2023 and the on body XLRs. The C200 isn’t as top heavy equipment wise. I know I probably sound crazy. The C70 is an absolute beast and Canon hands out C70 firmware updates like candy on Halloween. The C70 has RAW along with eye lock autofocus and back of head AF lock. It’s an RF mount but you can add an adapter to still use your old EF lenses. I’m going to have to be patient and get the C70. If those prices keep dropping on the C200, I’m probably going to jump on a good deal. 🤔
@AaronBrown-rr6yu The MK II is some brilliant kit, that’s awesome! I’m still trying to decide and waiting for some Christmas or after Christmas deals. I’m also practicing a personal exercise on patience…lol. I have enough gear to record our Sunday School lessons without issue. So, I just need to hold on and wait. Thanks for the info and wishing the very best this holiday season for you & your family!
Do i right, when I'm saying that the differents are mainly comes with a software included to the bodey? I mean... if a c200 can do 12bit raw, what is the thing stopping it to make a step back to 10bit? What about something like a magic lantern modification?
This move by Canon makes zero sense. The C200 seems to be both the low-end and high-end camera, whereas the C300 appears to be the middle ground camera. I'd much rather have a camera that could do 10-bit HD internally than one that can do 12-bit 4K raw, but only 8-bit HD.
There are a lot of people who would prefer the inverse. This camera will make a great A cam to my C100 Mark II, and I may no longer look to rent for higher end projects where I would shoot raw. I already own an atomos recorder, so getting 10bit 422 Prores files from the sdi out will be awesome.
The thing is that raw is going to be a pain in the ass by definition, so adding an external recorder to get it isn't that big of a deal. However, unless you're going to be shooting 35mbt/s 8-bit HD, which is only considered standard definition by many broadcasters, you're going to need an external recorder. This effectively rules this out as a professional documentary camera, which is the only reason why I'd get a great all in one system like this over something like a Red that has higher specs, but is a pain in the ass to deal with in uncontrolled situations.
for a quick turn around the c300 mkii is indeed better, but canon are introducing a better codec next year, I am pleasently confused as to why the c200 is in my opinion better than the c300mkii with internal 12bit raw, indie film heads will be going mad for this including myself, in my opinion its better than the c500 my team use.. aside from that 120fps 4k half raw, I see this as the most superior video camera for every need in the market at the moment, I would only consider the alexa line up as an alternative, this is truly a great camera, only people who read specs and have never used other cameras will say canon is rubbish and overpriced. also you forgot to mention internal wifi which can control focus and other camera features from a phone or tablet.. thats a pretty big deal if it works with minimal lag, imagine gimbal shooters, they can use dpaf or have someone on a tablet controling focus.. thats insane and negates the need for an external focus system.. if it works just aswell that is..
For indie film, as you say, this is a fantastic camera and probably better for you than the C300 II. Your right, the Wifi is a fantastic feature. Unfortunately it wasn't working on the pre production version of the camera I had and so I couldn't try it out. It will be a future video though for sure! Carl
Thank you Carl for the camera comparison. It is very informative and helpful. I'm thinking of investing in a Canon c300ii for studio interviews connected to a 4K switcher. Which EOS model would you recommend as B & C cameras also connected to a video switcher while still retaining a similar image throughout the switching process? What gear did you use for this video. Nice image. Thank you for helping us all understand better some of the fine details of today's 4K cameras.
If you need a 4K signal your options in the Canon line up are really the C300 II, C200 or XC15 (HDMI only) I used a C300 II for this video. Your welcome! Carl
Hi Carl, thank you for the video. What about the obvious question you would have asked Canon, the elephant in the room...will the C300 mkii be receiving a firmware upgrade to adopt any of these features such as 4K50p, internal Raw? Thanks, Jon
One of the first things I asked them. But they dont know. Or possibly are simply keeping quiet. Your guess is as good as mine. If I had to speculate though: raw is unlikely, but 4K 50p & no crop 100 fps would be nice. Pure speculation at the moment though. Carl
Thank you Carl, much appreciated. On a separate note, do you know if the raw recording is baked WB and ISO like the C300mkii/C500, or flexible like the C700? Asking as a C300mkii owner by the way! Interesting times we live in...
Great video, thanks a lot! I am in the process of buying a C200 myself and have a really stupid and noob question but.. i will ask anyway simply because I dont know about it or how this camera works. When shooting RAW, are any video profiles or LOG modes selectable or can/need to be applied (like when shooting MP4), or because its RAW, basically is just RAW straight out of the sensor with no procession and end of story? Thanks again :)
Hi Carl, me again! Just watched your nicely conducted C200 suite again. Well worth my doing. I am very interested in this model. It's just gone onto my short list. Would it be possible for ProAV to put up a short downloadable RAW data file from the camera? One of the many things that have to be taken into account when considering the purchase decision capital expenditure comitment is the post production computer power we have access to (or will need) and I expect many prospective customers would be grateful for some test footage. It seems quite hard to find codec outputs, let alone proprietary RAW data samples. To my mind, with the ever falling cost per giga byte of storage and ever rising cpu power RAW output for aquisition would seem to be the way forward for those of us who are fortunate to not be so time pressured as with 'straight to broadcast'. I would have thought that RAW places rather different demands on NLE's and grading than Inter or Intra video codecs and I would like to understand this better. Comments on your experience, or even better a video would be a useful research resource. Cheers. Bob.
Raw isn't really useable right now as the software hasn't been updated to support it as its so early in pre production. So I have a folder full of raw files which I cant even look at. Once I have beta versions of the right software though, I will make a video on what the raw footage is like to work with. I'll also look at sharing some files as well. Carl
It completely depends on your broadcaster as to what they will accept. There are no fixed minimum standards any more in the UK. However most broadcast shooters prefer 10 bit. Cark
now still a lot of HD tv only provide 1280 x 720p H264 codec so 8 bit 4:2:2 is up to standard, 10bit is just another marketing games to brainwash audience, and 4k tv also the same
Question-- Hoping people are still checking this thread: Can the C200 record in RAW 4K 4:4:4 internally and at the same time output to an external recorder 10-Bit HD (1080) 4:2:2 over either SDI or HDMI? Then you sort of get the best of both worlds.
Yes it can, when recording raw it will send 10 bit 4.2.2 1080p out of either the SDI or HDMI. When recording MP4 in camera, it will be 1080p 10 bit 4.2.2 from SDI and either the same or 4K 4.2.2 8 bit from HDMI Carl
Internal 4K RAW Light to CFAST 64GB gives you approximately 5 minutes of recording. So you would need several 256GB CFAST cards on hand for a small shoot. Thousands of dollars in media cards to shoot 4K raw internal, what market is Canon catering to with this option? In my opinion it makes no sense. To me the C300 Mark ii is cheaper to operate overall and has more options. From Canon: "When shooting 4K Cinema RAW Light, the bitrate is 1Gbps. Exact file sizes may vary, but a 64GB CFast card will give you roughly five minutes of 23.98p footage before needing to swap cards."
C200 only. Raw is 12bit and plays nicely in premiere. You still need to edit your video so you can export it in any format client need. I don’t get the concept of с300. The last time i heard anyone rent it for the project was around 10 years ago
Is it possible, that that firmware update in mid-2018 is going to add the higher quality 10bit recording codec from the C300 MkII to the C200? As a move to give them a little more time to flog further C300 MkIIs before the C200 takes over completely? I'm rather tempted to wait until then.
Hi . could you please tell me about two questions ? 1. tell me if old Cf reader can work with cf 2.0 cards and 2. the new firmware for c200 came with XFAVC codec in mp4 .please tell us about this codec and diffrence .thanks a lot
Isn't there a XF-AVC Codec coming? I thought you will have 10 bit with that. Beacause if that's the case, then you could use the c200 on almost all occasions.
Carl, think it was some who might have mentioned that the files aren't compatible with premiere cc - that to me is more concerning than anything else. Is that correct?
Nick Piscopo nice combo but you kind of need an Odyssey 7Q/+ to make this camera shine. I own a C500, the results you get when pairing it with Odyssey is stunning and you can get both for less money than c300 ii or C200. But again, it all comes down to what do you need the camera for? External recorders aren't practical at all in run and gun productions.
ProAV TV / Carl thanks a lot. So it's got an additional mini-jack stereo input like the C300 MkII or just a little internal extra-mic? Best regards, Martin
Do you mean indie film work? Depends on your needs. They will love the raw from C200, but depends if they are able to cope with the storage space. Carl
Thanks Car, it's really syncing sound reliably and quickly that no timecode kills me with. I know I can use audio waveforms, but that's not always reliable, and in post I'd like to have audio and video clips to have the same timecode.
Not in 2023 The price on both these cameras are less than $3,000 U.S. I picked up a C100 MKII for $1,600 with a pelican case last year. It’s an awesome camera that you can still purchase new for $3,500. I’m looking to add the C200 mainly for the touch screen autofocus, body XLRs, and 4k RAW. I will probably use the 2k external more with my Shogun Inferno & ProRes.
I. Hate. Canon. 100% the C200 can do 4k 10bit - but of course if they enable that, then the C300 II because obsolete. Canon have crippled their cameras and ripped off their customers for years and I despise them for it ugh.
Nicely summarised at the end. C100 for HD - C200 for non-broadcast - C300 for Broadcast - C700 for top tier with a crew.
Great analysis. I sold my c300 mark II for this camera. My clients do not ask for a specific codec. I personally like shooting in 4K 60p, and c300 does not offer this and will not offer it in any updates (according to a canon Rep on some youtube). So, I will shoot the 4K MP4 and clients will be happy... then when something needs a more serious edge I will use the RAW light and eat cards for breakfast.
If the C200 codecs work for your work then great!
Its a lovely camera
Carl
I've got a C100 MK2 and a C200, I use the C100 MK2 quite alot with the 5D MK2 in 1080p, and that's perfectly fine.
How do you like your C200/C100 MKII combo? I have the C100 MKII with a 90D for stills and a little 4K. I’m very interested in the C200 especially at today’s prices.
Great review. One take nailed it. Lad.
Best reviewer for camera comparaisons, hands down 😊
I always look for your vids because I know they will have good info, straight to point.
Thanks, I really appreciate that.
Carl
@@ProAVTV Thank you for all the great info good sir.
I think I'll stick with 10bit internal recording. The difference between 8 and 10 bit is huge when you do grading.
Love that Canon image! Hate that Canon marketing!
its got 12 bit 4k
The choice between the C200 and C300 II is going to be a very difficult one for a lot of people. As I say in the video, it will simply come down to that recording codec that works best for you and your work.
Carl
Yes, I know. I own one. But I almost never shoot in 12 bit. If would be superfluous for the work I do.
4K Raw of the C200 sounds great for some projects but the 12 Bit 2K is still the sweet spot when recording in the C300M2.
2K on the C300 Mark II is gorgeous. Used it so often last year.
Hi Carl - just ordered one (in Australia, for my CZcams channel). For me the decision came down to extending the versatility of my current setup - with things like generating background bokeh - and the killer autofocus. I'm currently shooting on GH5 and GH5s - and really looking forward to both of these capabilities in the C200, because bokeh and MF~T is a challenge, and Panasonic's video autofocus is rubbish (I currently manually focus everything, so I can't effectively move closer to the camera during a standup, shooting solo.) I'll continue to use the Panasonic cameras as B-cameras and for cramped environments, in cars, etc., because the image quality is very nice. Great analysis in your video, thank you. Your videos on the C200 really helped me make what I am sure will prove to be a solid decision.
You like the C200 or you recommend the c300
The choice is clear, wait for the C300 Mark III or IV when it arrives with touchscreen, non-detachable audio ports, 4k w/ no sensor-cropping, 4k 60-120fps, 8/10/12-bit options, and 4:4:4 color.
4K 60-120fps is a little ambitious. Apart from that you might well be describing a C300 replacement.. Who knows how long away it will be though!
Carl
+ProAV TV Maybe so. I just hate the intentional compromises. Put everything on there and I don't care if it's 3x-4x the cost, we'll buy it if it's worth it. There was a video like this comparing both C-cameras and the guy was literally begging Canon for a firmware upgrade so his C300 Mk 3 wouldn't be left behind. I can only imagine that the C300 Mark III will have everything the C200 has and then some, but we already know it will have intentional yet again.
According to canon rumors a C300 mark 3 or C400 might be announced at the end of this year.
wow by far the best review i have seen so far. thank you!!!!
Thanks for watching!
Carl
Thanks Carl. Not only for the very helpful differentiation but also the liasion work that must have gone on to get these videos out today. Bob
Many thanks, glad the videos were helpful. As I say in the main review video, I am very grateful to canon for their help and collaboration. Otherwise these videos would just be impossible to make.
Carl
I have a c300 mark II and I am happy with it, but some of these features should be on the c300 mark II in my opinion.
To be honest, I completely agree. Canon should have included 4K 50/60p from day one in the C300 II. But they didn't, and its hard to know how much they can add via firmware. When I asked Canon UK they simply said they didn't know.
I'm hopeful for 50/60p support, uncropped 120fps and the support for using the C200's touchscreen with the c300. But to be honest I doubt it will happen.
Carl
I wonder if Canon enjoys it when, after having stabbed their loyal customers in their collective back, they twist the knife as they thrust it deeper?
I am a little upset too, but lets wait and see if we get a firmware update.
William Ridenour - Go away you negative troll.
Excuse me. This is not your You Tube channel to order people around. If you have an argument or rebuttal state it. Name calling and acting like a jerk is not an adequate response--unless maybe you're in grade school and bigger than the other kids.
As a 300 MKII owner, they better give us:
- Use of that touchscreen on the c300mk2
- A firmware update to bring the 60p4k and/or the non-cropped 120p to the c300mk2 8 bit (i beleive it is a matter of more efficient compression rather than processing power & cooling)
- A firmware update to bring the ability to record internally to RAW Light.
If not i really should have bought a used red/alexa 5 months ago....
I feel the same...
Canon has a way of not giving a hoot about you after they've got your money. How do you think the C300 mk II users felt after they bought the cam at 16,000.00 and after only a short while---months not years---Canon dropped the price to 12,000?
Ripped off and stabbed in the back--that's how they felt and---from the remarks here---how they feel.
The C200 is a second knife in the back to C300 mk ii owners.
And I guarantee you Canon will do NOTHING to compensate the loyal C300 mk ii owners. They over charge you and stab you in the back. They really suck. If I owned the company I would fire everyone of their marketing people.
Believe me. After they have sucked all the $$$ from you you'll never hear from them again.
But here's the lesson: never buy a Canon product new. Hold out. Wait. In a VERY short time they will grow impatient for the slow sales because of their outrageous price tag, and drop the price. And if you are sucker enough to have paid their full price AGAIN you deserve what you get.
Either wait them out and get the product at a fair price once market realities FORCE them to drop the price to something fair and reasonable, or simply find another product you like as well (if not better) for less money and go with that. If you do the likelihood that you will have gone with a different company that treats their customers with more contempt, disdain, and arrogance than Canon is microscopic.
Of course dealers who want to sell Canon's latest and greatest will push the new thing. But if they had any care for their customers they would refuse to sell the new thing until Canon compensates their past loyal customers who were being shorted and back stabbed by Canon's horrific and chaotic marketing and PR.
Do I make myself clear?
William Ridenour - Wow, your negative.
I think they will at some point.
With a bit of luck it won't be called C300 Mark III !!!!
I'm also a C300 Mark II owner.
Also C300 Mark III should come with stabilised sensor and 6k. Cheers!
Thanks. I love it. Ordered and waiting like a little kid for Christmas.
totally get why a lot of people hoped for more/earlier/upgrades... but don't agree that "canon doesn't care" I just think canon really wants to up their game and be the new alexa level "go to" camera and not fiddle with the trillion fights they'd need to have with the sub 10k price competitors that target "you tubers" with indie aspirations (this market is too saturated and not "gucci" enough)
with the c700 not quite taking off as they'd probably hoped they're back drawing sword to protect their options on the lower end after all.. but sticking their proprietary overpriced tag on as a luxury tariff on us that do still see the bloody difference in color and do wish to up level our work and aspire for the cinematic color/look without learning mora about compensating for "odd-comings" in our camera than we focus on the actual cinematography itself (atlas that was my experience when using fs7 and ursa...
to me - while i'd love to pay less for more- tre pricetag is just worth it
exactly what i needed in 4 minutes!!!!
I totally agree with your video. I usually work on broadcast project and I was a little bit doubtfully about the C200... with your post, it's sure, I'll choose the C300 MKII for my future work. (actually I'm still using the C300 MKI, but she's getting old...) - Thanks a lot for your review.
A nice short and concise review, very helpful. Thanks
Thanks for clarifying.
What's left to know is actually see and understand what represents 100 Mbps vs 410 Mbps.
cheers
I'll do a footage comparison at some point. But its mostly down to broadcast submission specs rather than visual quality (especially that you can see on youtube)
Carl
Maybe the grading will tell the big difference, for instance color separation, if you try to isolate some skin color, perhaps is easy with the 410 Mbps.
And also, i think, if you over-sharp something, there is less risk of bad sharpening with a higher bit rate.
this is just based on my idea, I have also the C300 Mark II but can't really tell. Cheers!
I’m looking at the C70 but I love the form factor of the C200 & 300 MKII. I really like the C200’s price point in 2023 and the on body XLRs. The C200 isn’t as top heavy equipment wise.
I know I probably sound crazy. The C70 is an absolute beast and Canon hands out C70 firmware updates like candy on Halloween. The C70 has RAW along with eye lock autofocus and back of head AF lock. It’s an RF mount but you can add an adapter to still use your old EF lenses.
I’m going to have to be patient and get the C70. If those prices keep dropping on the C200, I’m probably going to jump on a good deal. 🤔
@AaronBrown-rr6yu
Another solid choice. Do you have the Mark I or Mark II?
@AaronBrown-rr6yu
The MK II is some brilliant kit, that’s awesome! I’m still trying to decide and waiting for some Christmas or after Christmas deals. I’m also practicing a personal exercise on patience…lol. I have enough gear to record our Sunday School lessons without issue. So, I just need to hold on and wait. Thanks for the info and wishing the very best this holiday season for you & your family!
Canon is genius. They gave the c200 the cinema features that we wanted while maintaining the c300 as the professional production camera! Wow
It is very interesting to see how they cross over and where they dont.
Carl
Thanks Carl. I enjoy your take on these cams. I don't see why Canon just makes the 300 with the qualities of the 200. ($)
While I completely agree with points noted in video, I and many others clicked to see COMPARISON, not waving it back and forth...
very informative and interesting analysis man! helped a lot! thanks for making...
No problem, glad you liked it.
Carl
Fantastic video, great work Carl.
Thanks!
Carl
Hi, nice revue, I think the cost is important to, now you can find used C300 mkii at lower price as a new C200...
This guy is a machine. Great review.
Do i right, when I'm saying that the differents are mainly comes with a software included to the bodey?
I mean... if a c200 can do 12bit raw, what is the thing stopping it to make a step back to 10bit?
What about something like a magic lantern modification?
Great information, super helpful and clarified it all for me. Thanks
Glad it helped
Carl
This move by Canon makes zero sense. The C200 seems to be both the low-end and high-end camera, whereas the C300 appears to be the middle ground camera. I'd much rather have a camera that could do 10-bit HD internally than one that can do 12-bit 4K raw, but only 8-bit HD.
There are a lot of people who would prefer the inverse. This camera will make a great A cam to my C100 Mark II, and I may no longer look to rent for higher end projects where I would shoot raw. I already own an atomos recorder, so getting 10bit 422 Prores files from the sdi out will be awesome.
The thing is that raw is going to be a pain in the ass by definition, so adding an external recorder to get it isn't that big of a deal. However, unless you're going to be shooting 35mbt/s 8-bit HD, which is only considered standard definition by many broadcasters, you're going to need an external recorder. This effectively rules this out as a professional documentary camera, which is the only reason why I'd get a great all in one system like this over something like a Red that has higher specs, but is a pain in the ass to deal with in uncontrolled situations.
The raw is only twice as big as the c300 Mark II ProRes - I use it and its great
very clear explanation, thanks!
Your welcome!
Carl
Canon also did say that they will rollout XF AVC to the C200 though. Great vid man
Yes they will in 2018. Although I expect that will be 8 bit not 10 bit
Carl
Yeah I'm with you on that I'd be a bit shocked if 10
ProAV TV 8 bit 4:2:2 or 4:2:0?
for a quick turn around the c300 mkii is indeed better, but canon are introducing a better codec next year, I am pleasently confused as to why the c200 is in my opinion better than the c300mkii with internal 12bit raw, indie film heads will be going mad for this including myself, in my opinion its better than the c500 my team use.. aside from that 120fps 4k half raw, I see this as the most superior video camera for every need in the market at the moment, I would only consider the alexa line up as an alternative, this is truly a great camera, only people who read specs and have never used other cameras will say canon is rubbish and overpriced.
also you forgot to mention internal wifi which can control focus and other camera features from a phone or tablet.. thats a pretty big deal if it works with minimal lag, imagine gimbal shooters, they can use dpaf or have someone on a tablet controling focus.. thats insane and negates the need for an external focus system.. if it works just aswell that is..
For indie film, as you say, this is a fantastic camera and probably better for you than the C300 II.
Your right, the Wifi is a fantastic feature. Unfortunately it wasn't working on the pre production version of the camera I had and so I couldn't try it out. It will be a future video though for sure!
Carl
The touch screen is listed on its own on B&H. I bet it will work on the C300 Mark II, just like their new viewfinder. Here's hoping!
Steven Bailey : I.called Canon support today to ask exact same question and they said no. The screen from C200 will not work in C300 Mark 2
Tried it, doesn't work.
Carl
Aww man.
Thank you Carl for the camera comparison. It is very informative and helpful. I'm thinking of investing in a Canon c300ii for studio interviews connected to a 4K switcher. Which EOS model would you recommend as B & C cameras also connected to a video switcher while still retaining a similar image throughout the switching process? What gear did you use for this video. Nice image. Thank you for helping us all understand better some of the fine details of today's 4K cameras.
If you need a 4K signal your options in the Canon line up are really the C300 II, C200 or XC15 (HDMI only)
I used a C300 II for this video. Your welcome!
Carl
Or C100 Mk II?
Thanks for making this video...
You welcome, hope it helped.
Carl
Awesome review and cameras.
Thanks!
Carl
Hi Carl, thank you for the video. What about the obvious question you would have asked Canon, the elephant in the room...will the C300 mkii be receiving a firmware upgrade to adopt any of these features such as 4K50p, internal Raw? Thanks, Jon
One of the first things I asked them. But they dont know. Or possibly are simply keeping quiet.
Your guess is as good as mine.
If I had to speculate though: raw is unlikely, but 4K 50p & no crop 100 fps would be nice. Pure speculation at the moment though.
Carl
Thank you Carl, much appreciated.
On a separate note, do you know if the raw recording is baked WB and ISO like the C300mkii/C500, or flexible like the C700? Asking as a C300mkii owner by the way!
Interesting times we live in...
Great video, thanks a lot! I am in the process of buying a C200 myself and have a really stupid and noob question but.. i will ask anyway simply because I dont know about it or how this camera works. When shooting RAW, are any video profiles or LOG modes selectable or can/need to be applied (like when shooting MP4), or because its RAW, basically is just RAW straight out of the sensor with no procession and end of story? Thanks again :)
So if the c200 is getting firmware to enable a 422 codec next year, then it's better than a c300 MKII, so Canon are competing with themselves?
XFAVC will probably be 8 bit 4.2.0 when its added in the C200.
Carl
12 bit prores 4444 internal vs 8 bit xf-avc 420.... obviously c300mk2 is the winner hands down
Hi Carl, me again! Just watched your nicely conducted C200 suite again. Well worth my doing. I am very interested in this model. It's just gone onto my short list. Would it be possible for ProAV to put up a short downloadable RAW data file from the camera? One of the many things that have to be taken into account when considering the purchase decision capital expenditure comitment is the post production computer power we have access to (or will need) and I expect many prospective customers would be grateful for some test footage. It seems quite hard to find codec outputs, let alone proprietary RAW data samples. To my mind, with the ever falling cost per giga byte of storage and ever rising cpu power RAW output for aquisition would seem to be the way forward for those of us who are fortunate to not be so time pressured as with 'straight to broadcast'. I would have thought that RAW places rather different demands on NLE's and grading than Inter or Intra video codecs and I would like to understand this better. Comments on your experience, or even better a video would be a useful research resource. Cheers. Bob.
Raw isn't really useable right now as the software hasn't been updated to support it as its so early in pre production. So I have a folder full of raw files which I cant even look at.
Once I have beta versions of the right software though, I will make a video on what the raw footage is like to work with. I'll also look at sharing some files as well.
Carl
Ah, on the cutting edge! Cheers. Bob.
C200. Easy question.
correction here 8bit 4:2:2 is up to broadcasting standard don't misleading others
It completely depends on your broadcaster as to what they will accept. There are no fixed minimum standards any more in the UK. However most broadcast shooters prefer 10 bit.
Cark
now still a lot of HD tv only provide 1280 x 720p H264 codec so 8 bit 4:2:2 is up to standard, 10bit is just another marketing games to brainwash audience, and 4k tv also the same
Question-- Hoping people are still checking this thread: Can the C200 record in RAW 4K 4:4:4 internally and at the same time output to an external recorder 10-Bit HD (1080) 4:2:2 over either SDI or HDMI? Then you sort of get the best of both worlds.
Yes it can, when recording raw it will send 10 bit 4.2.2 1080p out of either the SDI or HDMI.
When recording MP4 in camera, it will be 1080p 10 bit 4.2.2 from SDI and either the same or 4K 4.2.2 8 bit from HDMI
Carl
love the videos
Thanks!
Carl
Does the Canon C200 meet broadcast standards? 4:2:2 10-bit. I know the 4K is 12-but RAW, but what about 1080 or in-RAW??
Internal 4K RAW Light to CFAST 64GB gives you approximately 5 minutes of recording. So you would need several 256GB CFAST cards on hand for a small shoot. Thousands of dollars in media cards to shoot 4K raw internal, what market is Canon catering to with this option? In my opinion it makes no sense. To me the C300 Mark ii is cheaper to operate overall and has more options.
From Canon: "When shooting 4K Cinema RAW Light, the bitrate is 1Gbps. Exact file sizes may vary, but a 64GB CFast card will give you roughly five minutes of 23.98p footage before needing to swap cards."
Sealord Productions Films you only will need max 2 cards and just swap and dump. so this "thousands of dollars" on cfast cards is a bit silly
Thanks
C200 only. Raw is 12bit and plays nicely in premiere. You still need to edit your video so you can export it in any format client need. I don’t get the concept of с300. The last time i heard anyone rent it for the project was around 10 years ago
Hello and thanks for your tutorial. Is there any way to connect C100 Mark ii to a MacBook Pro? I mean live viewing... Thanks in advance.
Is it possible, that that firmware update in mid-2018 is going to add the higher quality 10bit recording codec from the C300 MkII to the C200? As a move to give them a little more time to flog further C300 MkIIs before the C200 takes over completely? I'm rather tempted to wait until then.
Canon havent specified. But its probably going to be 8 bit XFAVC rather than 10 bit.
Carl
Thanks for letting me know Carl... and a crying shame if it'll only be 8 bit! :-D
Brent Ramsey told me at NAB that no plans for the C300 MKII to do 60p in 4k. He said to just upscale the 2k 60p to 4k. ... He could be wrong though.
How do you do such an upscale?
Take your 2k footage and put it in a 4k timeline. Duh.
thanks ,, this is helpful
Your welcome
Carl
c200 vs c300, which one can use for indoor event like piano events, choral events, etc. and can be showed on TV for HD
Either would be fine.
Carl
Hi . could you please tell me about two questions ? 1. tell me if old Cf reader can work with cf 2.0 cards and 2. the new firmware for c200 came with XFAVC codec in mp4 .please tell us about this codec and diffrence .thanks a lot
Isn't there a XF-AVC Codec coming? I thought you will have 10 bit with that. Beacause if that's the case, then you could use the c200 on almost all occasions.
+Walaby50 XFAVC is coming in 2018. But it's unconfirmed whether it will be 8 or 10 bit.
Carl
ok yeah, but hopefully, they gonna put that information out in a few months.
I want to color some raw footage!!
which would you say are better in low light ?
nice explanation
Thanks!
Carl
and... the c300 does only 120fps in crop mode.......
Carl, think it was some who might have mentioned that the files aren't compatible with premiere cc - that to me is more concerning than anything else. Is that correct?
+nick welch Raw can't be opened in Premiere Pro yet. The MP4's can
Carl
that's great. you think they'll do 50MBs with a firmware upgrade? otherwise my c300 mk1 is better in HD
They want to keep that for the C300 line by the sounds of it.
Carl
What about the c500 with an atomos inferno?
Nick Piscopo nice combo but you kind of need an Odyssey 7Q/+ to make this camera shine. I own a C500, the results you get when pairing it with Odyssey is stunning and you can get both for less money than c300 ii or C200. But again, it all comes down to what do you need the camera for? External recorders aren't practical at all in run and gun productions.
What about for cinema stuff?
I think it would be a great choice for cinema work
Carl
Will the touchscreen monitor work on the Canon c300 mk ii ????
+UglyBlackBoy No unfortunately not. We have tried it.
Carl
I really like your Shoes, where did you buy them?
My Shoes?? ... Clarks I think....
Interested in the camera at all? ;)
Carl
haha! thanks man, of course I am! Have been waiting for Canon to release something like this for some time now! Great vid! You got a new sub! :)
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching
Carl
c200
The C200 does all those things... for about HALF THE PRICE of the C300 mark 2!
С 100
Does it offer 4 channels of audio like the C300MkII?
Yes, 4 Channels of Audio
Carl
ProAV TV / Carl thanks a lot. So it's got an additional mini-jack stereo input like the C300 MkII or just a little internal extra-mic? Best regards, Martin
Any info if 4K comes out of the SDI port?
I think its 1080p only via SDI. Not certain though
Carl
The features in c200 are better with half price .. sound strange ..
Well thats the point of the video really, they aren't necessarily better. They are very different cameras.
Carl
I'll save the viewer time, the most important part is at 2:17. With no visual examples, just s guy sitting on the grass talking about stuff.
So witch is the Indy cam ?
Do you mean indie film work? Depends on your needs. They will love the raw from C200, but depends if they are able to cope with the storage space.
Carl
No timecode in is what kills this camera for me :(
Yes, this is not designed for live multicamera shoots really
Carl
Thanks Car, it's really syncing sound reliably and quickly that no timecode kills me with. I know I can use audio waveforms, but that's not always reliable, and in post I'd like to have audio and video clips to have the same timecode.
Sticky fingers wanna touch both these cams before choosing.
+WhichLens If your in the UK come and visit, we have both in our showroom for our customers to try out.
Carl
Does the c200 come with PL mount?
I'm afraid not.
Carl
great videos! without that bullshit poser stuff so many other youtubers have! keep it up man!
Glad you like the videos
Carl
I can now buy a C300 mk2 with low hour usage at around $2k, knowing someone out there paid $30k. bahahaha
Only for the spoiled rich kids
Not in 2023
The price on both these cameras are less than $3,000 U.S. I picked up a C100 MKII for $1,600 with a pelican case last year. It’s an awesome camera that you can still purchase new for $3,500. I’m looking to add the C200 mainly for the touch screen autofocus, body XLRs, and 4k RAW. I will probably use the 2k external more with my Shogun Inferno & ProRes.
@@lb7144 For that price, just get a FX3 and better quality shots. Also lighter weight for gimbal / steadicam / sliders.
C200 with Atomos Shogun 7 or Ninja V. Codec problem solved
Agreed
How do you like your C200? The 2nd hand price on them in 2023 is less than $3,000 US. I’m thinking about getting one.
BS man Canon forget we have Black magic in the market. I'd rather wait and see what's next for BM before buying this.
BM sound like they are committed to the URSA mini pro for now.
Carl
Unless you're only shooting for yourself, forget the URSA. Freelancer death.
I. Hate. Canon.
100% the C200 can do 4k 10bit - but of course if they enable that, then the C300 II because obsolete. Canon have crippled their cameras and ripped off their customers for years and I despise them for it ugh.
fs5??
Sorry bad video 📹