This Magic Drama Has Gone Too Far.
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- čas přidán 2. 10. 2023
- Lloyd Barnes and David from Unbiased Magic Reviews have serious beef. From allegations of fraudulent emails, exposing magic, poor quality magic products and a response video breaking down 10 supposed lies... I explain what went down with DEX.
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David's review: • Requested Magic Review...
Lloyd's video: • [EXPOSED] 10 LIES Unbi...
David's response: • Regarding Lloyd Barnes...
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Most people aren’t honest in this community unfortunately and most are biased like magicorthodoxy who doesn’t even perform the magic he gets gifted. You shouldn’t comment on something you don’t fully understand it’s not fair because you know Lloyd Barnes but I’m assuming you don’t really know David.
I agree 100% with this, David is a Gem! I must also agree with David on a few points, When someone reviews an Item that they got for free they knowingly or unknowingly show a positive Bias towards the product. I have been subbed to unbiased Magic reviews for a while and everything he has said to date was spot on and he also lets everyone know it’s only his opinion and sometimes he will give alternatives. I do rely on David’s advice and I have bought and loved products that got a good rating from him however I did something I usually never do :( I bought Dex before David’s review came out and I knew it was garbage 2 days after I received my Dex I saw David’s review and he was spot on. I also own Cheetah, The Advocate and Quiver Indexes so when Lloyd says this is the Lamborghini or Ferrari of Indexes I know he is delusional and will never again trust him. David has earned my trust and has a lot of people who like me who will back him up (David did not talk to Christian Grace and emails are easily faked)
Thank you for your take on this. I will disagree with you on the subject of free give aways to reviewers. I truly think it does affect one's review as you are now beholden to the creator/manufacturer. I met for the first time a magic reviewer at a magic convention this past year and asked him point blank (in a very nice way), "how do you review a bad product if given to you for free?". He told me it was hard...he told me, many times he would rather not review the product if it was bad. Although this was a study with one subject, I surmise that most reviewers would rather do this then hurt the feelings of the creator. I would love to think that these reviewers would be honest in spite of the freebie (like you hypothesized), but most succumb to plain ole human nature. I worked for a large medical group and we were not allowed to take any sort of giveaway/gift (short of of pen) from a pharmaceutical /surgical equipment company for fear of bias....and let me tell you (from experience) this marketing ploy works. This is why I like reviewers that buy the products that they are going to review (ie Craig Petty, Fiddling Jon and even David from Unbiased...although, I wish he wouldn't have "reviewed" Enigma without actually having the product in hand). I do agree with you about actually working the product before reviewing it...and like jmaggio909 states below...many (if not most) reviewers don't road test it before reviewing. Thanks again Cavan.
This has been so weird. I don't chase these rabbit holes or enjoy drama so I pretty much steer clear of this kind of stuff. I actually only follow a hand full of magic content youtubers and usually a lot of this stuff flies by and I totally miss it, but this one has really taken a hold of things. I don't know Unbiased Magic Reviews, I do have some familiarity with Lloyd Barnes, but after several creators commented on the situation I did go watch Lloyd's video. Clearly there are some questions about these emails, but those aside, there is a lot of questionable behaviour going on. One comment I will say from David's reply about the emails, I was really surprised to hear him suggesting that Christian might be "in on it" with faking emails. That raised real red flags for me... if you were really concerned that someone was miss representing you with fake emails, that is not the direction you take, attacking the person you say is getting lied to.
In the end, it simply makes me sad to see things go this way. I hope the full picture of whatever is going on with Unbiased Magic Reviews, Lloyd, Christian, these "fake" emails, everything, will come out and things can get back on the right track. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Cavan. I will definitely take a look at your cards!
What do you think about the latest Unbiased Magic Reviews video with Don Wand?
As for Christian Grace I have learned not to buy ANYTHING until I see the complete performance from “ can I have a volunteer…? “ to “give Charlie a hand”.
The trailer obviously comes in at the middle. Don’t sell me a $200 app and not show the app in the trailer. That’s me.
It looks great but I am hesitant.
You mentioned flashing, Craig Petty is a professional magaician and flashes more than any magician i have ever seen. 🤷 And a question. Do you have a personal relationship with llyod barnes? Are you his friend or have spoken and commucated with him before? 🤔🧐
Yes, he tries to cover too much. He's ham-fisted at times. His double-turnover lacks finesse.
I have been following David aka unbiased magic reviews, for the past year. He consistently provides impartial opinions about products or effects after thorough testing, clearly stating the pros and cons. He never suggests buy something just for the sake of it and see if it works out for you or not,like most of the reviewers do.Recently, he even praised Christian Grace Effects from his monthly subscription,which proves he has no vendetta against him.
Regarding the review of 'Enigma,' David didn't actually review it; he posted a video explaining why he chose not to purchase it. When it comes to the emails presented by Loyd Barnes, they appeared suspicious and contradictory to David's known opinions. I think the possibility of them being fake was downplayed by you.
And It seemed clearly there was a baised towards Loyd Barnes in your video.
David is vile scum who does nothing but lie about the products of hardworking people. He consistently reviews products he neither tried nor owns. He has no discernible talent in magic and his channel exists solely as a monument to his viciousness and lack of ability.
100% I agree with you, you said it better than me.
@@babaknabati9466 This guy is talking about David's potential bias or vendetta in his reviews, even though he himself seems pretty biased towards Loyd Barnes in the video😂 Even after acknowledging that Dex Productions' quality is shit and their adhesive is deteriorating.
David has been very fair from what I can see and appreciate that he calls out weaker products / programs and praises good ones. I can’t tell you how many times I have gotten a product with great reviews only to be sorely disappointed. Nice to have someone calling out weaker products.
As for the 10 “lies” Lloyd did take some of David’s words and slightly alter them. Subtle, but not fair. I do think the emails were fabricated but by a third party wanting to stoke the flames..:
One reviewer said DEX smells like farts.
Can confirm, mine did stink out of the box 😂
Money talks Cavan. You can go only so far on the Cafe with a review before threads are locked. It is more the owners of the Cafe knowing how their advertising can be affected that they will lock a thread.
To be fair, lots of magic reviewers do not perform the product. For example, Magic Orthodoxy and Real Magic Reviews.
I like Creg Petty’s review… he does the trick to show a basic trick.. then gives the basic needed things you need to know… examinable or not, how much work the gimmick does, is good for live performances or more social media.. and a few other little things.. so the pro’s and con’s basically
Pig cake said it best.. do you need a single pocket index. Then get it. If not. Then don’t get it.
my best guess is that the emails were written by a third party trying to use the controversy of David's enigma review to phish for a free copy of the app. you'll note that he *did* get access to the tutorial via the ruse
That would be a very elaborate way of getting the tutorial, but not far fetched that someone else would do that
The thing is he didn’t get the app for free even when Christian asked him if he wanted it. I personally think David sent those mainly because why would anyone else do it? And the emails have some elements in Spanish (David is a fluent Spanish speaker)
@@ivo3419 that's a good point. if they were trying to get the app they could've tried harder. but I still don't think it was David because of the email address and the obvious grammar issues that I don't think David would make in an official correspondence. and also the fact that it flatly contradicts everything that David had said publicly--what would be his incentive to write it? could've been someone trying to intentionally damage David as well.
@@quintopiathat’s true but if the person who wrote the emails wanted to damage his reputation he wouldn’t be so “polite”. Personally if I wanted to cause some controversy I would’ve mocked him or even insulted. He just looked like he had changed his mind or smth
@@ivo3419David would never write those email. Lol a lot of people speak Spanish! BTW the time zone is Spain not Central America, where David spent some time and learned Spanish.
David just doesn’t seem very likeable..I know that should have nothing to do with it but…
And the whole you tube exposure thing.. calling Pigcake names etc. Magic Karen
If people would have just said “Well that’s just David’s opinion…” It would be over by now. He is entitled to his opinion.
He is entitled to his opinion, but why tell so many easily disproven lies to try to tank the product if it's just an opinion?
Caven any chance doing some different effects and tutorials using the cvn credit card deck thanks
The magic cafe is nice if you’re working on a routine and don’t know which way to go.
Lots of experienced hands on there that have already solved many problems .
Also if I have noticed if Julie Eng or Pete Biro chime in it usually turns out to to be solid
About the emails. Why would David go on a public beef with Lloyd, and behind the scenes write apology letters. Let alone write such bad english as a Doctor. I m siding with David. He shares his opiniions. Andcreators attack him, obviously, becase their ego is hurt.
The above video repeats Lloyd's claims and thus misrepresents some things David said.
If those emails are false, that *is* the worst behavior in this drama. I love your channel, but I think you unplayed that possibility. Why would Dave send those emails? It makes more sense for a third-party faker (not saying Barnes) to do it since David double-downed on his review of Dex.
Which option is more likely?
1. Lloyd and Christian colluded to create and display fake emails to give a little extra discredit to David...
2. Some random person impersonated David and emailed Christian Grace for, umm, reasons...
3. David actually emailed Christian from a secondary email address he sometimes uses for anonymous purposes and is lying about sending them because it's now making him look worse...
One of those is, logically, far more likely than the others.
I want to clarify that I am not any sort of loyalist, and I don't have a personal stake in this matter. However, I am an analyst, and I can distinguish between obscuring the truth and being transparent. Unfortunately, the act of hiding the truth can often disguise itself behind facades, confusing language, and pretending to be honest when it's not. This is a common manipulative tactic that thrives when people are fearful and uncertain, sometimes even seeming like a solution.
This concealment of the truth has contributed to the division we've seen. In response, there have been extraordinary efforts to be transparent, unlike anything I've witnessed before in the magic community. However, if we want to point out any loyalists, it appears that these acts of transparency were completely disregarded and, instead, dismantled to divert attention from the real issue. Let me clarify, the real problem isn't the questionable emails. I believe both sides of the debate might have been deceived. With the level of transparency displayed, it doesn't make sense at all to fabricate them, especially if the intention was to show how harmful obscuring the truth can be.
That theory still doesn’t make sense. How would a third party making up the emails, be revenge against David on behalf of Dex? Those emails weren’t public knowledge until Lloyds video where he mentioned them. David’s video about Christian Grace’s Enigma was from 1 month ago. So some guy pretends to be David 1 month ago, sends the email to Christian Grace. . . as revenge for the Dex review which wasn’t uploaded until 6 days ago? That’s some amazing precognitive abilities if they can send a fake email 1 month ago, for revenge about something that only happened 6 days ago
@@AlexKilpatrick81Agreed. I’d still rule out 1 though. The emails are from one month ago, there’s no way even with collusion it makes sense. This whole thing didn’t start off however until six days ago.
I agree.
Who ever thinks the emails are fake read the comment that Christin himself put on Lyod’s video. He covers good points on it.
The emails are fake. Period
Teaching a bit of sleight of hand is education .
Showing people gimmicks that are currently for sale is exposure.
Last time E with Calen,craig with luke dancy.
Now here we go 😆
Another episode of magic gossip 😂
Thanks for your break down on all this. 😊👍👍😊
That guy lost all credibility from me when he bashed enigma without even owning it or trying it. Imagine telling your friend that a restaurant has terrible food and you never ate there a day in your life. Full disclosure, I like Lloyd. While we have never met in person, I have spoken to him a few times, and he is always quick and kind when I have an inquiry about a trick or tutorial. I see no reason for an established, polished creator to lie. I have watched both David’s review, Lloyd’s response, and David’s response and Cavan, I agree with you. David sounds like a spoiled child demanding attention. Proof of this for me is at the end of his response, when he attempts to pull at his viewers heart strings by mentioning that he deals with terminally ill cancer patients, and he is using magic to make them smile. As someone who lost a parent to cancer, I find it disturbing and disgusting that David would attempt to use this as a way to guilt his viewers to feel bad for him, as if he is the innocent victim here, just trying to fill the world with joy. That’s truly gross.
At the end of the day, Dex is a pocket index. If you think that’s something you would use, dex is worth it, just for the 9 hour masterclass in pocket indexes, which Lloyd actually provides for free. He gives you the link to to video and the password in his video, so you can see for yourselves.
About those emails though.. man I love a good magic beef😂
I know Lloyd and he is the last person I would ever suspect he of making fake emails. And if we do find out what actually happened and if David is lying about his own emails the. I actually think ( I know it is extreme) this guy should get banned
David did not write the emails. He’ll likely retain a lawyer and seek damages. Those guys absolutely got catfished. Period
@@ThePrisonBarberlol guy who got caught in like 10 different lies is being honest about that? Seems unlikely.
Lloyd Barnes is fantastic. I have followed his channel for a long time. Love it.
I am AJ1. If you look at the video from Lloyd, you will notice that I defended Lloyd and Craig Petty in the same thread. I just feel that those 2 guys are honest, creative, and stand-up guys in the magic community. I have learned a lot from them.
Unfortunately, I didn't get the same response in the forum. Pigcake has also made a video on this.
Why not Cavan...everyone else is covering
Honestly this is a very sketchy/messy situation. I'm guilty of being greatly influenced by unbiased magic reviews, after watching the trailer of let's say enigma I was like holy this is too good to be true and then David uploads the video and then I'm like oh so enigma is not what it seems, and I'm sure many people got influenced the way I got influenced. So yes I do believe Lloyd Barnes is probably on the right here even though I do believe that sometimes his products are overhyped but then again it can be rephrased to "clever marketing". One problem though however I have with this situation is that if someone comes out with a video let's say to discuss a product, he probably can't do it anymore? So even if unbiased magic reviews or any other youtuber just makes a thoughts on a product video he probably can't anymore I guess? You made a video on David Blaine's studio right? It was some time ago where u just discussed about it and gave your genuine thoughts, so let's say if you said something like oh this product is not good for professionals, should David Blaine make a response video saying that this video is going to hurt sales and all? Probably not right? And talking about reviewers not being perfect, I have seen many reviewers not properly going through the product or performing it and just giving out a review. For example wizard magic reviews uploaded a video on boarding pass by Mariano goni, in that video they didn't even talk about the main features of the trick, and also Craig petty uploaded a video where he performaned Mariano gonis boarding pass and due to his performance I understood how the trick worked XD. So with that being said I think there are many other reviewers who make quick videos and don't do the product justice, and if there is a product of a lesser known magician they wouldn't even have the power to make a response video like how Lloyd Barnes did.
David doesn't care what other magicians think of him. His reviews are just his opinions. I've bought some things he recommended and didn't like them once I learned it. I like some things he didn't recommend. Take his reviews with a grain of salt. He does have a big gripe with magicians who do magic tutorials on YT. People have been doing tutorials on YT for over 15 years and it's not going to change. If anything the tutorials are better now.
Nice job Cavan. You may get a reply from David like I did about his views on Christian’s Enigma saying it wasn’t a review. Well review or not it did put me off looking to buy it, although after warching another Rooview it’s back on my wish list, my only reservation being If I have the nous/chops to do it. With regard to Dex it was on my must have list without seeing a review.
If Cavan has been playing about for a week with it and is still not ready to perform, what chance have I got as a beginner? I bought it on the 'strength' of the release video which said the Murphy's guy (who also said he's never used an index before, and they were specifically talking about beginners at that point) learned enough in 30 minutes to pull ten cards correctly in a row.
I also really don't like how they were deleting critical posts and locked the thread on Magic Cafe.
I think the points you have made are spot on 🙂
The most OUTRAGOUSLY SURPRISING comment in this whole video for me was that Magic is not Cavan's full time job. He's such a beast at magic and has such a dedication and passion for the art that I assumed he was a full time corporate magician.
Yep! First time I've ever said it on CZcams, actually. While magic makes a large % of my income, its not 100% and so I can't claim its my full time job... yet.
Thanks Caven. I just started watching your channel and i appreciate your honesty. Keep it up.
CAVAN, did we ever figure out who Mr. Blonde is ?
I believe Mr. Blond is Chris Rawlins. I want to know who Neal Scryer is
It's Chris Rawlins.
⚡️⚡️⚡️
This is gonna be an unpopular view but being a long time viewer of both Lloyd and Unbiased magic reviews, I think David - although very offputting to the creators - is just trying to protect buyers from what he thinks are wasteful magic purchases. So many people have been defending the glue coming apart on Dex - No. For a $75 gimmick the thing should be solid and last a good long time. It should not be coming apart within days. That said I don’t like how David called pig cake a POS for exposing magic. That’s uncalled for. I also don’t like what he did with enigma - he should have bought it and given it a thorough try before making any statement about it. I think both parties think they are telling the truth about the emails and the truth is probably that some joker sent that email to Christian posing as David to create an uproar and clearly succeeded. Yes David is rough around the edges but I’ll still watch and weigh his opinion highly bc I do think he is doing this for the benefit of the common magician just trying to avoid a bad purchase.
Boom.
💯
If you were to use Dex, you'd realize that's really the only way it could be engineered at the bottom without either making it significantly thicker, or much more expensive(could conceivably be replicated at near the same size with carbon fiber and a custom sliding hinge)
I ve seen Lloyd expose Wilson grip, nt even to teach, but to say how iit is worse than his technique. Just one example how Lloyd is NOT teaching. He claims to teach, but he uses techniiques and principles, that he didnt invent. If he was honest about it, ok. But playing innocent???
I ordered DEX, and I’m still waiting for it to arrive. To be honest, I’m enjoying the drama unfold, I find it highly entertaining and I’m glad you made a video about it.
If I could leave that popcorn gif I would 🍿
Well said dude the voice of reason in a shouting match exactly my thoughts:)
Terrific video. It's nice to see such a young man being the adult in the room.
la polemique mise a part,apres avoir vu de nbreuses videos de david,j'ai pu reconstruire de nbreux tours...videos + k1structives dc,impartialite vs subjectivite ou incroyable coincidence?
PS j'aime bi1 les 2
My opinion is that he is a damn liar. I unsubscribed as soon as I saw it. Done with the part time Doctor, part time reviewer, part time purchaser, part time loser.
I had never seen David in my life until until I clicked on your link. Personally (aside from any lies - which i havnt seen Lloyds rebuttal) I don't think he did a horrible job with it. Seemed sincere. He clearly likes this cheetah index alot better because he mentioned it over and over but I dont see why it blew up like it did. His statement about other reviewers is said across all review channels for all topics. I see gun reviewers who try to bolster their credibility by saying "all these others are getting theirs for free" and thats all it felt like he was saying to me. Not really attacking anyone in particular. Just my opinion.
You can't give your opinion without half the information. David is a nasty person and a consistent liar. He lies over and over and over and over, and his statements about other reviewers are also lies. Please educate yourself.
Great vedio cavan. I think David is very very much in the wrong but I think he could fix it very easily if he tried.
The guy should get a life.
Me, Lloyd, David or all three? haha
Either way Dex is the best single pocket index since Jimmy Grippo’s
I don’t know about the lies or not but the fella should not have exposed the gimmick. Period.
Weird take. The issue wasn’t the original review, but the self indulgent attempt to pull it apart which has backfired a bit. Predictably.
Is this parody?
mass report...i will stand for lloyd
Lloyd Barnes is a joke, but the unbiased magic reviews guy is clown shows. Super biased, talks shit about performers on the cafe, and doesn’t even perform for real, just doing trick for his friends and family.
According to David, nobody should teach calculus because it makes use of algebra that everyone should learn and then derive their own maths from that. His "magic exposure" attitude is dumb and he is insulting overall with his arrogance.
David isn’t telling any lies and I’m not surprised you are backing Lloyd Barnes. It’s a shame David Is a hidden gem in this community I would know because he has helped me out a ton.
Agreed!
Wow, I can’t believe you were completely biased. I have to unsubscribe from you take care buddy how can you can you please look back over your video and tell me you’re not biased come on now all right see ya.
I'm with David and teaching Magic on a public form is exposing Magic! Back in the old days magicians first rule was never reveal your secret
So it's only okay to teach magic if its for a price?
Unbiased Magic Reviews is the George Santos of magic.
Lol David is a medical doctor. He literally saves people’s live everyday. Not surprising you side with the greedy magic companies and creators. BTW his channel has WAY MORE positive reviews than negative ones. Maybe you should watch a few a learn something. You sound like the Donald trump of magic!
I didn't buy your decks of cards. My unbiased magic review is that they suck because they're hard to shuffle, palm, and control. 😂
No, seriously, go support this kickstarter.
jvoulais dire les 3 bi1 sur ! cb oblige