Hot Riveting using SIMPLE hand tools! - 1932 Ford Frame (Roadster Build)
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- čas přidán 25. 01. 2023
- On this Episode we have a crack at hot riveting both the front and rear crossmembers back into our original 1932 frame. We create simple tools to help us make sure these rivets are held in properly. Its always nice to create pieces that look like they were done from factory. Those subtle details that we enjoy to see.
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Awesome job. I love CZcams to hopefully minimise my own errors when I come to these trials, so thanks.
Much enjoyment to watch.
Hi - I found your video searching for footage for an article on hot riveting I'm writing for Engineers Australia students. Great work but some suggestions. Rivet holes need a little clearance as a hot rivet is slightly larger than a cold rivet. Drive more practice rivets and then cut your results down the rivet axis to show you filled the hole completely - First deformation of the rivet fills the hole, and then the head forms (This is a problem if you wedge a difficult rivet in position and then heat second). Your choice is rivet tongs is OK, but blacksmith tongs or multigrips do better. For small scale jobs like yours, cook your rivet in the frog of an ordinary house brick. Heat the brick first and wear good eye protection. Heat the rivet on the brick and not held with the tongs. Firebricks are better - See your local wood fire maker. Grip the rivet head and not the shank - Very important on small rivets like yours. Rivet passing must be quick and hot rivet must go quickly into its hole. You really must have a heavier dolly - Yours is too light. I'd look for a bar say 2" diameter by minimum 14" long. Also, long sleeves and long pants please as hot black flakes burn and distract. Think about a contrivance to wedge into tight holes where there are problem flanges and back up outside with a heavy dolly held on the flange outside. In the US, our holder upperer is called a "bucker". Suggest a large oxy welding tip will concentrate heat better on small rivet shanks. Oxy cutting tip is too general. Your driving is good, but the gun is a bit light. When rivet is cold, place your finger on both rivet and job - Then tap the rivet with a light hammer and feel for any looseness - If loose, cut out and try again as you don't want loose chassis rivets. Well done though, especially in an era when all of the old riveters have passed on.
Thank you Andy for the great information. Means a great deal. During the process of trying them a did cut a couple down the centre to see what they looked like. To my surprise they are really well formed. But definitely some awesome info here I’ve taken a lot from!
Suggestion: When you want two surfaces to match each other perfectly and their relevant dimensions are already close to each other, you can just lap them together, same way you'd hand lap intake and exhaust valves back in the day.
Mount your riveting tool in the lathe chuck, put a rivet in the tailstock, add lapping compound, turn lathe on, and lap away. You'll probably go through a handful of rivets because the rivet head will also change dimension to match the tool, so swapping in a new one now and then will ensure the tool is what's changing.
Cheers from the middle of America, mate. Love your channel, keep up the good work. 🙂
Not a bad idea Barry, might have to give it a try when I wear the other one out! Thanks 🙏🏽
The rivets should pull even tighter as they cool down. Nice work; looks factory. Henry'd be proud!
I was thinking that the rivets might have expanded too much to fit in the hole. But I was wrong lol. Awesome work Jordon and good point on the cooling factor.
It's coming along nicely guys. Can't wait to see more videos soon. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Fab On. Weld On. Keep Making. God Bless.
Thanks as always mate! Means a lot
What a neat capability to have in the shop! Well done figuring it out man 👊👊👊 looks so good
Nice job again Jordan, that was certainly a learning curve.!!!!
If you had the head of a drill ground on a Monoset grinder to the radius of the rivet head, on your driver and buck, once hardened, they would work beautifully, with no imperfections. Once this machine is setup, you could have several bits made for economy. Keep up the good work!
Looking tidy mate, enjoying the videos - thanks for sharing 😎😎
Your video was riveting. It took me back to movie cartoon days where the riveter’s helper would yell: “HOOOT RIIIVET!!!” Then they would sling it with tongs to the riveter who would catch it in a funnel shaped scoop. That detail is not only fitting and pleasing but much safer and reliable than the alternatives. I wish I had something to rivet, lol.
Rivet some flat bar together for practice! Haha it’s fun and really loud.
That was pretty neat, you practiced it a few times, and now I think you've got riveting down pat.
Definitely no pro, was a great learning curve, for niece time I will try some other ideas
Love the look and strength of the hot rivets. Appears to be very beefy and I'm sure you shouldn't need to add any welding. In fact you may not want to do so from a properties stand point as the weld may constrict the expansion and contraction inherent to riveting resulting in a fracture. Just a thought.
Great point
Not a bad effort Jordan getting those rivets in mostly on your own and definitely worth a beer or two at the end, those air chisels can be very versatile by making custom anvils to suit the application and the chassis looks A1 now. Will be looking forward to the next stage Cheers Greg
Thanks a ton Greg!
Great work Jordan. Reminds me of when i did extensions on truck chassis as a 16yr old apprentice. We use a portable horse shoe forge to keep all the rivets hot so you could work quickly.
That’s a great idea
Rivet technique is available in aircraft sheet metal books. With steel hot rivets just upsize equipment and add the heat component. You need much heavier bucking bar and welding on a rivet set will eventually fail because it's tool steel
A bigger bucking bar forsure! Yeah the weld cracked a couple times on my little tool I just gave it another pass and got them done
GREAT VIDEO JORDAN, WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF HOT RIVETING ON OTHER AREAS
Next video! Coming up
Good on you for trying, and then powering through it to completion. Your attention to details makes your customs that much more unique. 🇨🇦
Thanks Thomas!
Hi Jordan
Try useing a large welding tip not the cutting touch it will direct the heat more on the rivot rather than the chassis
Just a thought
Great job!! I have a 32 frame in the shop now to rivet the front crossmember in so this was timely for me. The instructions that came with the rivets said the same 1 1/2 times the thickness.
Perfect I got something right hahah
Of the rivet.. not the material
Great job at the strive for perfection.
It's a hot day sweaty day hot riveting. Awesome job doing it alone. Red hot steel will burn through the body like butter so PPE is important... leather is your friend. 3 man team is great 1 guy has the gun, 1 guy has the bucking bar and one guy handles the rivets and is on safety watch. Mini forge can be made using a BBQ with a hair dryer and ducting made from metal tubing or even tin foil. Steel rivets like that I'd expect a bucking bar minimum of 3 Lbs. Larger rivet gun too... At least 1/2 inch shank. Rivet should stick out 1.5 times the diameter of the rivet for a plain flat head for a universal head it would be longer like 2D. Thank you for the video. I appreciate you please don't hurt yourself but have fun.
Thanks for the great info Greg! Much appreciated
Great work jordan, looked hot hard going but worked a treat
Fantastic. Between you, Karl (Make it Kustom) and Iron Trap Garage, I am awed by the exposition, skill and ingenuity shared when it comes to building these amazing machines! Thank you and Go Bennetts Customs! Keep moving forward!
Thanks for the great support Murdoc. Means a lot
Try Bad Ass too
I have a lot of experience with form blocks . Working all my life as a sheet metal aircraft mechanic. We used Phenolic. . Very hard material. Easy to cut . But don't breathe the dust !!!!!!.
Thank you sir!
Enjoy your cold beer mate great vids keep them coming
Great to see the process. Love the channel. Gets me hyped to work on my own project without rules or following the conventional restoration line. Way more interesting. Wish I could come lend a hand and drink a beer.
Get creative!
Great results Jordan.
An old art for sure .
need a small blacksmith forge for the rivets I think if you were going to be doing this all the time
or one of those induction coil tools to put over the rivets.
Totally right!
Great look. Great job . Jordan
cleco pliers work pretty good for holding hot rivets and setting them in place. great work!
Oooo that’s a good call!!
NICELY done
Great episode, take a look at the film of how they built the Sydney Harbour Bridge, it was a 2-man operation to do 1 rivet. Can't wait to see more Jordan.
You could use a cold rivet in a drill with grinding compound to fine tune the buck and driver. Or maybe use a press and push a cold rivet into the buck and driver after heating them up.
Jordan, you really did a great job figuring out how to hot rivet! Loved this episode!
Thanks Tom- took some head scratching 😂
Really enjoyed that, Jordan! I've never seen hot riveting before. That had to be a two-man job, so I was amazed. Oh, I think you had Henry inspiring you to do well! :) Anyway, thanks lots for the video and best wishes Jordan!
Definitely a 2 man old, just tried it again for another video coming out tomorrow- way easier that’s for sure
Very nice job Jordan
Thanks John!
Another trick is to get the head very hot and pound it over an actual rivet. That would give you a perfect fitting shape on both sides (pieces)
Watch how they built the steel structures when riveting was the only way. They would throw a rivet from ground to 3-4 stores up and buck them into a column!
Very enjoyable watch. I share all your vids with my eldest grandson Liam. We was on the path of getting him a model A chassis. (He’s 15) till his mums daily took a dump. So the funds had to be diverted to that but we will get there soon. I’m sure Jordan we will be using some of your techniques. Thanks keep them coming.Tim.
That’s too bad to hear. Where abouts are you guys located?
We live in the midlands England. So I’m sure when we get the funds back together we will get a frame. He wants to do body and paint as a career. So it’s all a learning curve for him.cheers.
Fascinating. Really enjoyed watching your process. Looks great!
best setup I've seen is a hydraulic clamp with dies. They use them when restoring old steam trains etc. You did well, but it is a 2 man job.
Definitely learned quickly I needed extra hands
Just thinking out loud ,If a person had a 4 inch copper plate with 1 inch legs and has a hole a tiny bit bigger then your rivet hole so it can easily be lifted out of the copper heating table with your air chisel rivet tool that has some rare earth magnets on the side of it which magnitizes the tool to lift the rivet.This enables you to heat from above and below. Now you can lay the torch on it's side to keep your next rivet hot in the little table. The hole in the frame will need to be slightly bigger so your hot rivet will slide in easily.This gap with tighten as you hammer the tools together. I find the hotter and more quickly you can get the operation done the better the results become. Like Wray says metal is clay. Great job anyways ! Looking sweet!!
You think real good OUTSIDE THE BOX !!! THATS GREAT....I like how you think.
(also, if you're having trouble getting the hot, expanded rivet in the hole, the hole is maybe too small? There definitely needs room for a lot of the rivet to 'barrel' and swell to get a tight grip?)
I'm sure you're probably done with it by now, but there's a "Pakistan Truck" channel on CZcams that breaks down and rebuilds commercial truck frames. They have some cool screw Jack's they use for vertical rivets in the channel. They do it all with sledge hammers, but the principle is still the same.
I'm not sure if its been mentioned before but I used rivet jacks as opposed to using a hand held buck. It just means they must be heated in location but it worked great on my 32 frame
I’ll had to look into those!
I’ve not done hot rivets before. But I’ve done aluminum rivets. My pal worked for aerospace company and the head of rivet went on outside and the Bucky (me) held pressure against shank on inside
Would work well if I could get to them. Unfortunately not in this situation
Length of the rivet matters, there is “common requirements “ in the aircraft industry dictating length and sizes- information should be available online. I have only driven cold rivets, but the size you are doing would imply a heavier gun- or more air pressure for quicker driving. Great to see you experimental work!
Yeah you’re completely right, have been reading lately!
Nice Video. Looks Great. I would have used the Factory head of the rivet on the spot that will be seen.
#STAYSAFE
#PHILLYPHILLY 🇺🇸
#FLY EAGLES FLY 🦅
Too tough to get the hammer in. They basically look the same
The rivets will grow when heated so it may be necessary for the hole to be enlarged a bit so you can insert the rivets quicky.
Next go around make a rivit tong out of flat bar. They look like something you could easily make.
An induction coil to heat up a cold rivit in place might also help a lot. Save gas as well.
Damn Jordan, you never cease to amaze. Well done.
Thanks Eric.
Thoughly enjoyed watching an learning more 👍 👌 next video ur making the hotrod hot up brace ,now I'm nearly up to date. Lol.
I was taught one and a half times the diameter of the rivet.
Not the material.
This makes more sense.
You don't want different lengths to peen over.
The size of the finished head shoukd be consistent and will totally depend on the stick out.
That rivet bouncing around, you wearing shorts... made me recoil in my chair. Knowing my luck, that bit would have ended in my shoe, homing right there near the ankle 😂
Kudos for pushing it, testing different methods. 🤙
But it only hurts till it quits! Welder in Phoenix Arizona in my youth, all of my shirts looked like victims of a shotgun blast.
That’s every piece of clothing a own,
You could at the very least use some of the blue tape I see lying around to seal the top of your boots around your legs. Fun getting it off, ouch, bug less ouch than a hot rivet down the boot. Good job nonetheless!!
i got my Midnight special T shirt! I love it, and the hat! Cheers Jordan!
Great to hear Larry
awesome!!...looks great
I think you did pretty dern good job first time attempting this! looks alright to me.
To be doing it by yourself, turning out great, what if you make your buck so you can put a clamp each side of the buck to hold it? obviously depending on room etc, it's coming together great, all the best to you and your loved ones
Definitely thought about this, I will create one to use in areas needed
make an induction coil that wraps around the rivet, and heat the rivet with that
We used a 12" piece of axle with a dimple. Worked really well. To short a anvil end bounced too much
Great call
Ball End Mill is what you need to make your Sets ....they will work in a Lathe and come in all sizes
That’s it! I couldn’t remember what they were called
Great job, but you need a bigger air hammer with longer stroke. Yes two people does make it easier but still need longer stroke air hammer.
Most definitely!
You might consider making your hammer and anvil forms out of D2 tool steel, and having them heat treated. It’s tough to machine in an annealed state, yet once hardened/tempered, they will be extremely wear resistant.
Excellent idea
Another great lesson damn dude keep em coming..oh and how did you go with evan from hampdon industries..???
I haven’t contacted, hopefully this week
23:14 would be time to back away and regroup for me.
What car will you be running that 32 Ford grille on? The one hanging on the wall to the right of the Champion spark plug sign. I want to see that one when its done.
That’s a mood one that one!
My names Buck and I'm here to ...
mushroom. LOL
🤙
Have you considered an induction heater to heat your rivits
Definitely now haha
I think the buck goes on the outside and heat only inside and hit inside with your zip gun
I think either way would work. Hard to get inside with the gun
Great work where do you source your rivets from thinking of doing the same on my chassis? Cheers
There’s a couple places in the states that do them. I’ve had these ones for years, think they came from a garage sale
I used grade 8 button head bolts to the outside. I would love to put rivets instead....
Study the ww2 airframe makers riveting processes..esp those englanders....
Sounds like someone from Ahstrayah moved to kentucky.
Wouldn’t a ball mill with the correct profile be an easier way to make the tools?
did u make the long part too or only cut off and welded the nut on an existing part?
Benn can't get on the back in 'his' gloves - you're wearing them!
Hahahah
If you want to see some great back yard production riveting and the homemade tools they use check out 'Pakistani Truck' and similar vids.
I wonder how an induction heater would work
Would be a great addition for the future
@@bennettscustomsco eBay for $350.00- &380.00 with a number of different coils in the kit
I worked in an aircraft factory for 39 years buddy and your driver (rivet) needs to be flushed up against the metal and your larger buck does the bucking of the rivet. It will suck it up tight!
Tidy matey 👌
Заклёпку нельзя греть на месте установки. Если не добил заклёпку по причине её остывания, это брак, нужно срезать и делать заново. Нагревать и добивать категорически нельзя! На такую операцию, нужно позвать помощников.
Нагревать заклёпки, в идеале нужно в печи с регулятором температуры. Температура нагрева должна соответствовать типу заклёпки.
If i remember correctly the rivets were heated up before going into the plates
I've seen those paki truck repair guys use a sort of turnbuckle that presses against the head of the rivet from the opposite chassis rail. That way you also force the crossmember tight against the chassis.
They have hot riveting perfected!
@@guygallaway3093 barefoot wearing flammable clothes working in the streets. Some amazing stuff.
@@wrstew1272 ...as well as complete trust in the guy swinging hammers with full blows while holding punches and chisels!