Ladislav Findorak's Prototype Lever-Delayed PDW
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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"guns are meant to be shot" CZ got it 100% right there!
Yes sir, that's why we have them :Dd piece of american weapon freedom in the middle of the Europe, that is CZ.
Any gun manufacturer with faith in their product should be more than happy to have people shoot their products.
If they work flawlessly, then that's great marketing.
If issues occur: ample opportunity for ironing out kinks to further perfect the product.
At least attempted!
@@sevenproxies4255 true. This is a 40 year old prototype that never made it to production, so critique away. But there is a lot of cool design to learn from off that little thing.
@@CrashRacknShoot I like a lot of design elements of it.
And as far as the full-auto problems Ian had on the range, like you said, it's a prototype.
And in my expience, misfeeds and trigger reset failures usually bottles down to the piece just needing some more machining.
Some material needs to be added or taken off. But that's part and parcel of gunsmithing after all. This gun clearly doesn't need that much work to function flawlessly.
Oh wow they let you shoot it?! That's so cool. Big thanks to CZ for letting us see this.
Thank you very much CZ for allowing Ian to shoot this piece, I did not expect you to do so to the point I was thinking "pity he won't get to shoot it".
Obviously, it's a developmental piece, it would be interesting to see if the bugs could be ironed out as it's actually quite a nice design and that's coming from a died-in-the-wool Skorpian fanboy.
Mag should be in the grip tho
@@j.yossarian6852 not if it affects the design and functionality but an extra mag holder in the grip could be nice tho
@@j.yossarian6852 Exactly my thought. With that, a longer barrel would be possible. But the upper reciver must be extended to make room for the bolt but if you extend the upper the lengh of pull could also be improved. But the gun would not be as compact as befor.
Really reminds me of the pp-91, minus the lever delayed action, it’s remarkably similar
That mag dump was even longer than the 200-rounder from that Knight's Armament machinegun, very impressive.
ΧD kekw ~~~ so true....
I always wondered if anything other than the famas was ever designed around the lever delayed system, guess I’ve got my answer now
Also the Hungarian Kiraly 39M/ 43M submachineguns
@@jakubdolezal665 oh yeah, almost forgot about that one
Your user picture brings me back. Thumbs up.
The AA-52 is the French GPMG since 1952.
@@garthenar nice to find a fellow fan of the show on here
It looks like a Brugger and Thomet by way of Walther. I realize aesthetics aren't the most important thing in firearms design but it really is a nice looking little SMG.
It is, isn't it? I was thinking the same thing
I was just thinking looking at the thumbnail, there seems (at least to me) to be a running theme of "cool looking" firearms becoming failures for one reason or another.
Its shame, because these firearms are cool obviously 😅
Agreed, it's a simple design perfected and made elegant as an result.
Looks like russian smg PP-91 KEDR
It looks like a M3 Grease Gun that got caught in a vice.
"Guns are meant to be shot" I knew there was a reason I liked CZ. LOL
Like any prototype I would guess that it needs a little fine tuning and possibly the magazine is a little finiky also. I love the overall concept. It's definitely not a cheaply made gun. Looks like quite a bit of maching was involved in the manufacturing process. But I generally like the idea.
That is very high quality for a one of its kind prototype! I'm impressed!
I'm no gunsmith, far from it, but I could see a couple of improvements that would have helped the ejection - like filling in that big empty space above the chamber a loose shell can fit into and a deflector to make sure the casing has only one place to go during ejection. Also, I wish Ian had worked the selector switch back and forth with some "emphasis" to make sure it was fully seated in the auto position.
I suspect that CZ did not pursue this design because they figured it won't be possible to make this thing out of stampings.
The problem isn't the magazine, I think, because Ian wasn't having trouble with an empty chamber.
Maybe it’s because he’s holding the magazine too tightly
"Let's see if it works" made me smile. Sounds like CZ has some awesome people in charge
looks like it needs a beefier extractor,but it did well for a prototype,also the Scorpion stock would work so much better since it has a "long" bare barrel
Yesss, the skorpion stock looks right at home here.
It also looks like there's not enough kinetic energy in the cycle to do everything it's trying to do. Might be cause the main spring is too cold, not quite as responsive as it should be.
@@jono3952 I was thinking that maybe the chamber isn't fluted, that could rob the action of necessary momentum, the H&K delayed blowback guns all have fluted chambers to stop the case from sticking in the chamber...
I believe extraction is fine, because it works in semiauto. Ian also attempts "to recock the hammer without losing the round." So I believe he's ejecting unfired cartridges, rather than empty fired cases that failed to extract. The hammer possibly follows the bolt down too gently/early, not striking the primer hard enough to fire. So now you have a chambered round and uncocked gun. In semiauto, the disconnector prevents the hammer from "following" and it works fine.
If someone ironed out the kinks this thing would rock, I love everything about it
Agreed. It looks like it has the possibility of being a handy pdw type of gun.
Maybe it is the ammo. Sadly Ian didn't mention what he used and if he tried different types or if this is the rated ammo.
@@wurstelei1356 Czech republic produces ammo, so it is unlikely to have variations in quality due to change of supplier. I mean, they run gun testing in the factory, not a shooting range for tourists.
@@Pyrochemik007 yup.. Sellier & Bellot being one of the oldest and well established ammo manufacturers in the world is located in Czech
For the billionth time, thanks Ian for showing us some random obscure weapon that we never knew existed. Looks like this design should be revisited i reckon. Cheers.
Very nice video as always.
Maybe one day you can try to review the Czech "CZW 556" rifle?
It's a lever-delayed blowback gun as well and I've always wondered how it would operate.
Its Findorak work as well, same like CZ 805 and others rifles
If I am not mistaken this is also L. Findorak's work based partially on Baryshev's design.
@@CzechoslovakGunStories Yes it is
@@CzechoslovakGunStories
Do you know of any videos or other media about it?
I'm really interested in it, yet the only thing I managed to find is a low quality test fire video.
@@adh615 I will see what I can do :)
I guess we can conclude that the gun really did fail the adverse conditions test if the cold has got the trigger that messed up.
I have always been intrigued by the lever-delayed system, but slightly disappointed by the lack of general examples of lever-delayed blowback in firearms. This video has proven to be quite interesting.
Yeah, the only one I knew of before googling it was the FAMAS, and there aren't very many at all. I remember reading that H&K tried making a lever-delayed SMG (an early MP5 or UMP prototype, or maybe the MP7?), but gave up. It seems to have some inherent problems that just make it hard to get right.
that PDW is pretty awesome I bet if it were to be made today, or something very similar, it would be a big seller on today's market.
I wonder if some combination of bolt bounce and hammer follow is causing the stoppages. Seems that the trigger is resetting, hence the doubles, but something about the cadence of sustained fire is causing light primer strikes.
@Peter smith The ammo is the easiest thing to rule out. No repairs, no modifications, just different ammo. I'm not sure if hotter or lighter would be better, but I am somewhat disappointed that it wasn't investigated here. My gut says hotter, but who knows?
I agree, because I used to have the same issue with an older Century C308 that I had. I went too long without cleaning it once, and it had trouble with hammer follow and I'd get random 2 or 3 round bursts out of a semi auto rifle. And then after that 2nd or 3rd round I'd have to charge it again and reset the hammer because it was following the bolt. Needless to say I cleaned it every time I shot it after that happened.
I guess it's because it is a prototype rather than a production model that's had all the bugs worked out.
From what I can see in the footage, it appears that the trigger axis pin was too short and walked to the left little bit, which would cause an alignment issue with the trigger. It would still be able to effectively fire, but resetting would be problematic and prone to errors in that case (same with an AR15, or any other gun that has a very "neat" trigger group without a lot of horizontal space to shift aroudn in).
Maybe the magazine springs were weak?
I was thinking the magazine wasn't able to keep up with the bolt.
That's a neat design though, tiny little SMG that's *actually* controllable in automatic fire.
A little more R&D and they may have something. The delayed action is a good idea in a small SMG. What’s old could be new.
The Skorpion is already that gun, albeit in a small caliber.
Thanks, CZ and Ian for letting us see this kinda work.
Interestingly enough Czech Weapons System also tried applying this lever delayed blowback system to lots of other weapons as well; multiple SMG designs, a few rifles, etc (though much like the PDW here, none of them seemingly ended up with any major production)
I want to tell the CZ marketing people I start following their social media because of their cool attitude towards Ian taking this gun to the range. Many companies would be scared of bad publicity because of malfunctions or the gun breaking or whatever, but this is how you're supposed to do it CZ, thanks!
Ian - "Let's reload this and try a bit more full auto".
Everyone else - "I want your job".
If that isn't the most adorable little SMG/PDW out there i don't know what is.
That's such a cool mechanism! I always love it when you do teardowns and explanations!
CZ is awesome for being so generous with their collection. One of my fav firearm manufacturers
Thank you CZ and Ian, love it.
A lever delayed Scorpion would be huge success. DO IT CZ!
This is the most visually appealing pdw I've seen you examine!! Reminds me of childhood crayon drawings after watching the vhs commando/predator box set!
I do love the lever delayed system too, really any delayed blowback I’m fascinated with
Me too. Did the lever delay system ever fit into a 9mm pistol? When I'm bored I try to imagine a delay system that would only minimally add to the complexity of a straight blowback design, i.e. keep cost and parts count and manufacturing time to a minimum.
@@donjones4719 I’m not sure, I think I heard about one on forgotten weapons before but maybe I’m just imagining things hahah, if there were I’d assume it was Czech or maybe Chinese before communism
I actually really appreciate the long delay here between recording and posting because it was 101F and high humidity the other day at work, indoors, and just seeing someone enjoy an SMG in winter weather had a nice little touch of comfort for me.
“The Czechs have been fans of ambidextrous controls for quite a while”
My CZ 85 can confirm.
I love how simple and crude SMG's and PDW's are.
The lever at no point stops the bolt from moving. The bolt is moving relative to the frame from the instant of primer ignition onward. It can be described as a class 3 lever, with the frame acting as the fulcrum. No motion can be transmitted to the load arm (carrier) if the action point (bolt) is stationary.
Yeah, you are right. That is why Ian corrected himself that it is a delayed, not a locked system. I guess it is formulated in this (a little) incorrect way to make the explanation a bit simpler and shorter - the bolt movement prior to the lever retracting is small enough to support the case enough to prevent detonation and thus not as important to the overall picture.
On the other hand, I can see that in this case, it may confuse someone, for instance, if they are well familiar with levers and not so much with the chamber - case - bolt - not-blowing-up setup.
I wonder if there are more people benefiting from the amplification or if more people would rather have the full picture...
I think Ian has some short videos explaining basic operating principles.
The Cz attitude of bringing even rare weapons to the shooting range elevates them a bit above other brands. I will definitely remember this when I make future purchases.
We thank you all at CZ 😃 Hope to see more interesting CZ firearms.
Thank y’all to cz. My favorite gun company.
Awesome gun overview PLUS range video! Well done Ian.
I'm not trying to shoot a malfunctioning prototype, while also making an informative video and I'm getting frustrated! Can only imagine how Ian's feeling. Another great video nonetheless!
That is an incredibly interesting design, and definitely shows the potential of a lever-delayed system for such a compact weapon. It's a shame it wasn't developed further, but it's also understandable why the Czech military went with the CZ. Perhaps we'll see an evolution of the concept at some point
Great content. Thank you kindly sir,
Really enjoyable to see and hear you expound on an interesting piece of gun design and seeing it fail spectacularly on the range right after. (coupled with your telling it was a one off prototype) Could not help following this video up with re-watching your review of the scorpion evo 3 from 4 years back.
A heart felt thumbs up to CZ for allowing you to field the gun, it brings another dimension to the exploration of this firearm, serving to complete it fully.
Still following you with pleasure from the Netherlands.
Greetings,
Jonathan
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
Very cool little gun and enjoyed learning about the delay system. Thanks!
CZ is one seriously cool uncle for letting Ian unleash it down range.
The rail seems similar to an 11mm weaver rail. Somewhat like what's on pellet riffles and early or '80s rifles
That's exactly what it is
nice interesting prototype, needed some tweaks on the ejection part :)
thanks CZ for letting you disassemble and shoot it , for all of us to see
That’s actually a very good simple execution of a lever delay for a sub gun. I love the simplicity of most sub guns. Pps-43 being my favorite at this point but this is really cool. Next level sub gun I wanna make one similar and see if I can pull it off. Video saved to the archive for reference
I get woken up early by my apartment's weedeaters but I get forgotten weapons I'm happy
That was about the most interesting mag-dump yet haha certainly a prototype gun. Good on CZ for letting you take it out and run it.
If I were to guess, I would say that's an 11 mm dove tail/weaver rail. For the width of the PDW it seems a better choice than the larger picatinny.
Thank you for showing us this that bolt mechanism is awesome
Bit of a shame to see the malfunctions. A good prototype, it has room for improvement!
God I love the color on this thing's finish. It reminds me of the bluing on the ZH-29 you went over.
CZ letting you test fire that is awesome. my regards.
mad respect to CZ saying "its a gun its meant to be shot". cool ass dudes
Damn! Summers in the Czech Republic are brutal !
One time messing with my 61 I managed to lodge a cartridge in the space between the upper sleeve and the barrel. It was a nightmare to get out. This video brought back some traumatic memories.
What a great company CZ is!
It looks like it definitely had the potential to be a PDW. Hard to say, what's causing the trigger reset issue, buy it's probably something that could have been worked out.
Great Video Ian, and a big thank you to CZ for allowing a complete demonstration of the gun.
Sweet! From the looks of Kinda expecting this to be of low quality but it isnt!
There's no such thing as failure! Only success or learning.
Cute little gun! Interesting bolt.
“Guns are meant to be shot.”
I knew there was a reason I liked CZ!
We love CZ, best gun manufacturer 🤝🇨🇿
Never miss a video with "prototype" in the title, love to see those "cool guns"!
That footage of the freezing shooting range is perfect for cooling me down in this hot summer.😀
I remember when you had a couple hundred thousand subs. Now your big time. Congratulations 🎉🎊🍾🎈
I know it’s being compared to the VZ. 61, but I’m here thinking it look like a more expensive Kedr
Very cool little gun. But more than that m very jealous of that jacket - always liked Canadian tab buttons.
Thank you.
Cut a pool noodle and wrap it around the stock. Now you have comfortability and a floating pew pew
That gotta be the most adorable little gun I've ever seen
Cool little gun ...... if it worked...☺ I am really intrigued by this.
Thanks for sharing.
It's too bad development didn't continue with this little subgun. There's a lot of cool features.
Aesthetically reminds me of the PDW/IDW and the Kedr/Klin
a lot like a kedr
It's got so many hard angles and strong lines that it looks almost like its hand made in a garage. Impressive that it functions in no way like it's appearance implies.
Extending the frame all the way out to the muzzle and then adding a front sight out there might've helped with the whole aiming thing.
Edit: There is also some endearing about weird old funky prototypes.
It would also allow you to have a longer folding stock with a locking tab at the front rather than the wonky push down to fold out action. It would still retain its small folded frame and probably be a very nice little SMG.
That would have increased the weight by quite a lot.
@@alltat Nah, don't think it would've been a problem.
“Guns are meant to be shot” love the attitude
It's got a nice aesthetic to the design it's well thought out
🤘😁🤘 Super cool of them to let you shoot it, I wouldn't expect that either. Pretty neat gun.
Given the recent introduction of .30 Super Carry, I could see revisiting this creating an interesting product.
The CZ guys seem to love you! How kind of them
Lever delayed blowback is the coolest mechanism. It's devilishly simple and very clever. I hope that modern manufacturers "rediscover" it for PCC use.
I see it fires all three modes; Burst, Semi-auto and Single Action :-)
That's exactly what I would draw when someone says submachine gun
"Mom, can we have a vz. 61 Skorpion?"
"No, but let's make one instead of buying one, shall we?"
The result:
The CZ 61 was the go to for the Good guys and Bad. I used a 32acp version to test out and was shocked how well it ran.
Looks like a great concept that would also be quite simple and cheap to manufacture. Shape it wasn’t adopted and never saw further development.
Great video as usual. As we know, CZ is great firearm manufacturer. They producing very good quality firearms.
regards from Switzerland
I heard every Swiss has an assault rifle locked at home, in case of war. How about voting to allow soldiers to pick any Nato standard rifles? Then you can have Bren 2.
Little PDWs aren't normally my thing but I love that. Interesting design that seems to actually have a functional advantage.
I absolutely love this little job. It reminds me of a late 90s early 2000s video game smg. It's the right kind of pdw where it's a large useable pistol while having a low profile and useable stock. The only thing I'd like to see changed is a non reciprocating bolt handle accessible from both sides.
Also. Imagine it in .30 SC.
Man it’s always cool to imagine how some of these things would look scales up to like a full sized SMG.
An analysis of the failure modes would be interesting. It seemed to be something to do with the way the fired brass ejected (or didn't), and the feed from the magazine.
I love the boxy design of this
That's a very elegant design!
Got to love the Czechs. Damn smart gun designers.
Okay, have to admit I like the folding stock on this one. The way it acts as a forward hand guard.
You know exactly how far forward is too far forward.
I really hope when you cover the CZ/laugo scorpion 3, you talk about the two piece bolt it was originally designed with. There was some talk of the two piece bolts being brought in but it died out a while ago.
Combining a table vid with a range session. Ian is a generous god.
"Mom, can we have vz. 61 Skorpion?"
"No, we have vz. 61 Skorpion at home"
*vz. 61 Skorpion at home*
I love seeing older guns. New ones all look the same