NEW Begode wheels with LiFePo4 Packs - What to know
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2021
- Couple of corrections on the video:
- LiFePo4 packs do have a themal runaway but at higher temperatures (300°C)
- We don’t know yet for sure if the amount of parallel cells is correct
- it’s possible Begode is using 3300mAh cells
- it’s not yet confirmed if Begode uses 21700 or 26650 cells
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Hi and welcome to my channel! I'm Adam Malicki (aka mr. Wrong Way) and I test small electric vehicles for a living. My job is to show you pros and cons of Electric Unicycles, Electric Scooters, eBikes and other Personal Electric Transport in a entertaining and unbiased way.
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I just got my first EUC this week...kingsong 14s I just took my first 'long'(7mi) trip with my daughter on her onewheel and I did pretty good. I think it's harder to ride then the Onewheel but I'm happier with the price and the range so. I'm really happy with my Euc. I've been watching wrong way for a couple weeks now in anticipation for my Euc
You are on the right way, onewheel is just an introduction and euc are kings of PEV. Next thing to do, is to stop watching wrong way as he is biased greedy video blogger that will tell whatever he is paid for. Never trust on any review of the wheel from no mainstream youtubers, there are no honest opinions there.. everyone is pursuing own interests
Welcome! I bought my first EUC also because of Wrong Way videos. Now I have BEgode T3 and I love it :).
@@meriwald1329 Projection much? Lol
Be careful! Onewheels are a gateway drug into the vastly stronger single wheel world. Before you know it you'll be irreversibly hooked and looking for a bigger buzz.
@@meriwald1329
While I agree you should be careful about taking advice from people that may or may not be being paid, what evidence do you have that Adam is untruthful in his reviews, sponsored or otherwise? I've seen him be extremely critical of products of all manufacturers whether he has been given, lent or bought the products. As far as I’m concerned he appears to be fair and is not a fanboy to a single brand and that means what he says is more reliable than most. Does he have his favourites? Yes of course he does, that doesn't mean he's being untruthful though. If he were to start praising all the wheels from one company and slagging off all others id be concerned, but I seriously doubt he'd be stupid enough to do that.
Lfp batteries have a somewhat flat discharge curve compared to regular li-on though. This means that you have the same voltage for most of the battery range. This is good for performance, but we also can't calculate battery percentage from volts anymore. The energy that is used since last charge has to be stored to the wheel somehow.
You should have always been calculating it from the current. I've been wondering when this was going to bite people but it's been sitting in the back of my head until now. A whole industry can't be wrong, right?
Calculating the energy a battery has left to deliver you by a simple volts measurement - that's actually kind of terrifying. I don't think I'm going to run my wheel very hard.
It will have to wait until the S20. I definitely won't be riding anything less at any high speed on any paved road, now that I've realized I need to drill deeper into the BMC on these things to see just how janky it is, in design. That's gonna take a bit but there are lots of people who tear down wheels and I need to go rewatch those videos now.
also, in general flat discharge is *good* because then you know you can rely on the current measurements you're making to be a true indicator of usable charge still on the battery.
It also means when your battery *does* sag beyond a certain limit that you need to stop NOW because on flatter batteries they don't demonstrate as hard a sag until they don't have the charge margin left to serve the sudden demand.
The problem with battery monitoring is that (if you know anything about electronics at all) the internal resistance of the battery changes with the amount of charge on it. This means that the entire time you're using it, the resistance is NEVER the same at any given measurement time.
With the nature of chemical energy storage and the fact that we're actually pulling current from it, it's much easier to monitor the power delivery health of a device who holds a little more still on the voltage side - there are far more current management circuits than voltage, they're all named shit like "crowbar" and "inrush" protection lol current gets all the cool names because it's the most badass I guess.
@@russellzauner its far more complicated. Integrating current (charge) is a method known as Coloumb counter and is susceptible to drift due to current measurement offset and the fact that the battery degrade or the usable charge is different for different temperatures etc.. Therefore using Voltage is more accurate to absolute values but susceptible to short duration inaccuracies due to current drawn. Voltage is also more relevant for wheel usage but the problem with flat SOC/Voltage curve is that it becomes harder to estimate SOC based on voltage alone. The estimation has far bigger margin of error (the difference in the curve steepness is like 2-3x in some parts).
There are more advanced algorithms to estimate State of Charge or State of Health by fusing voltage, current and temperature by using some meaningful detailed battery model. The main algorithm is called Extended Kalman Filter (EKF) or Unscented Kalman Filter (UKF). It could estimate and model the parameters like resistance and capacitance of different orders. By using these a SoC can be estimated and further SoH also. Problem is that all the parameters are dependent on Temperature, State of Charge or State of Health. Its a complex task that really not many do right. Maybe automobile industry or phone industry have it right.
@@russellzauner uhhhh, voltage always tells you where the battery is at. it doesnt calculate capacity but you do KNOW at all times where the battery IS.
Enjoyed the video. In my opinion the only people who want small capacity wheels are people who are looking for lightweight wheels. None of these new Gotway offerings provide this feature.
The 3600wh version of the EX2 might be interesting
yeah , just think about a wheel at around 20-25kg that fits properly on a locker and doesn't risk burning spontaneously. A perfect commuter for going to work. Then there are the speed and range - wheels for different purposes.
As a daily rider, I look for reliability, speed, and range.
When I shop for my wheels
Range and waterproofing/general longevity is the most important to me.
If it consistently manages ~40 km/h in all situations I'm happy. I have no need for a BeGoate wheel that explodes when going up a longer hill or when i hit 60 km/h or dies from water ingress.
They are so resistant to adding protective circuitry to their BMS that they'd rather just switch cell technologies altogether... Classic Begode
Yeap...
Great video!! Keep up the great work!
It seems to be haphazardly designed. Thanks for the info, Adam!
Thanks for the information sir
You can call them "Lithium Iron Phosphate" or "LFP"
What would be best is if you could exchange batteries in the same EUC depending on your needs.
If 99% of your needs is less than 30 km between charges (a common case if you're a commuter and can recharge the EUC at work, or at your friend's place), but occasionally you would want to ride a longer distance - you could use the LiFePo4 packs on daily basis, and switch to Li-Ion packs when needed. To make this option more affordable, EUC shops could rent out Li-Ion packs, so instead of buying one, you would only rent it out when going on a longer trip or something. Long term, from end-user's perspective this could be cheaper than riding always on Li-Ion batteries and replacing them every few years.
Also, this would theoretically allow for a scenario, where you transport the wheel without battery packs, as checked luggage by air (if simply proving that it has no batteries would convince the airport security that it should be allowed). Then upon arrival you would rent out the battery packs in your destination city. A niche market, perhaps... but maybe if EVs become popular enough, this could be viable?
Rented battery packs and cheaper?
Pick one.
The silly method of having the batteries transported on top or riding with both and switching them out... nope.
super informative
Thanks Jack!
Thanks for info
As for performance it may still lack a bit vs the LiIon. But safety is its importance. 300 and x 5 the lifespan is a plus.
What about the price of of lithium-ion packs compared to LiFePo. Could those packs make the wheels cheaper? A lot of the time I feel the cell are the most expensive part(s) of an e-wheel or any other e-vehicle for that matter.
I had seen the original post from jack at electric dreams and his post said they were li-po cells lithium ion polymer cells in the new rs is this wrong info
the li fe po batteries have a wider usable range than lithium ion ... so you dont need to slow down as much when the voltage drops until it drops below around 30 percent
From TIMES SQUARE NEW YORK CITY YOU GO GUY. 1 LOVE & PEACE. DO YOUR THING 1
EX2 Yuk, Meccano. New batteries, might be better to sort the many and varied other quality issues. The V13 on the other hand has the potential to be a serious contender vs Kingsong's S20
It's an old batt tech, downgrade sure ain't worth the money and won't guarantee future problems
Was that EX2 rider running about 20PSI? I’m not sure which was absorbing more travel, the suspension or the tire. Anyway, so the trade off is light weight and range, for safety and 5x more battery life. That’s a consideration for a commuter wheel. Thanks Adam.
Should I get an exn or a Sherman as my second wheel? And why.
That is a terrifyingly huge drop in range on the RS. I'm happy for an increase in safety but not at the expense of so much range. They need to rethink this.
Dunno that seems to be the best wheel for racetrack performance
I think I’m getting one
the main advantage of LiFePo4 is safety and battery lifespan over 2000 charging cycles. When LiIon have 3 years lifespan, then LiFePo4 have 10 years compared
Can you take your wheel in a plane with these batteries or is it the same restrictions ?
No, for sure not.
I see theres s new ex2s 3600wh 3000w suspention. I like thise specs.
Im circling around to buy a new wheel. My top picks keep changing.
I was gonna go sherman.
Commander could be good with a few extra breath holes ive got a drill. But empted by suspension.
S20 is nice.
But ex2s is first big battery suspention wheel so im considering it. You mentiined the 3600wh is not new 10 thousand cycle type.
No screen is unusual.
Do we need some crap phone app to see if its out of power?
Im kinda keen to hear more on this wheel. I see its for alse already 4 grand. Thats 5 or 6 here anyway.
I like your reviews. Thank you.
Be well from Will and Mr Data :):]
Regarding LFP I like the longevity and the possibility to fully charge them without problem. I think that the best application is for light wheels where at the moment the weight of the battery represent only a fraction of the total weight of the wheel
They can't make a safe wheel so they have to change batteries lol. Kingsong and inmotion not having any issues.
Why jump to Iron Phosphate before trying out high amp Lithium Ion cells? Even at 4000mAh per cell Li-ion but with double the amperage, it will make those cells a lot COOLER running.
My thoughts exavtly
They dnt want it burning, they go lifepo4 to prevent it instead even do it weight too much
When common 18650 cells were rated 10A, Sony had cells that were rated 35A. That's 3.5 times the amperage. Sure they're the peak performing cells, but even at 2-3 times the amperage it's a big difference.
If you compare wheels today with wheels 3 years ago, the riding amperage has risen a lot faster than the batteries' supply ability. This is likely the culprit to most fires today.
if that wheel was sprayed black it might look ok. suspension is cool. batteries that can be recharged for many more years is cool. if it don't catch fire that's cool.
if the ex2 hits you during a crash watch out for the sharp edges
Where did you read they need a sophisticated BMS? LFP's are renowned for staying well balanced, in the Original Onewheels many people run without a BMS if it fails and the cells stay very well balanced.
LFP have a far lower capacity for the size compared to NMC, but they do provide a lot of discharge amps abd can charge very quickly
LiFePo4 are amazing batteries, but not for EUC. Silence S01 is using them also and in this case it makes perfect sense. But you do not want to have such a heavy EUC. This is crazy :D.
Are they still using LiFePo4 packs?
Ongoing props to Wrong Way for putting Begode on blast for their terrible quality. As a community we want Begode to make wheels as they are high performance, but they need to be better quality
ex2 looks like a proof of concept design a.k.a. proto type
Boy, am I happy to keep my Sherman and my MSX 84v.as second all purpose wheel...
Id like to see in specs say the max tilt back speed.
I still.......still think a option should be tiltback based on voltage drop not speed. So just speed toward 100000000000 kph until volts drop then it safely tilts us back.
And a seperate option for a speed tilt back for those who want to be tilted back at 50kph.
We need a unicycle teir list pls.
No, we don't. It is all subjective anyways and depends on what you need and esp. can afford.
msp, was(is) the best.
I have a question for you, do you think that a person over 300lbs should ride a electric unicycle...?
Probably not. Considering you'd have to add safety gear and possibly luggage on top of that.. Not sure, but I think I read about ~100-120kg limits on some wheels
No problem, 16x good starter
That ex2 looks like a rolling radiator.
I like the general tendency of the EX2 (sturdiness, simple construction for disasembling), but 2000Wh battery pack on a 47 kg tank. Are you serious? I'd rather get a Veteran Sherman at this point..
47 kg 🤪
I don't like any of the 'new offerings' other than I am hanging my hopes on the S20 (if it ever arrives). KingSong, in my opinion, has shot themselves in the foot by 'leaking' the S20 far too early... now ALL of the other manufacturers have hurriedly released ridiculously priced offerings to try and beat KS to the party... most of the new offerings are heavier with less range and butt ugly... so I am not interested in anything other than the S20. If that is also a flop, I will just keep my Nikola plus and Sherman (and some smaller wheels) and buy some of the V11s and S18s that will flood the second hand market when all of the new wheels even arrive. (We have only just got the V12, none of the others yet)
I will start 'frankensteining/hotrodding some of the older wheels... like, who wouldn't want an S18 or V11 with a 100V Gotway wheel/motor and board and decent size battery packs added? If these companies just want to put out garbage and charge extortionist prices for less performance and range... it will be up to us to MAKE what we want. Far cheaper to soup up something that exists than pay $4k for some of the rubbish on offer. I do believe I have bought/own my last BeGotode wheel.
Wheels are too heavy already.
If they want to sacrifice range as well? I don't see this going well.
It is a strange combination, indeed.
Not sure what their marketing group is.. but I'd never buy a 47kg tank with 2000 Wh battery (possibly at a 1600Wh range, considering the self-weight)
dude, does it mean they might let it on the board of the plane?
For sure not
@@mr_wrongway I know :
RIP begode.
Maybe the metal makes it more heavy duty
I don’t like the ideas they can explode 🙀thanks for the review , not riding a pack of those batteries between my leg ! No no , 🤔
I hope you don’t hold your mobile phone next to your face then 😂
Lifepo4 has at least 2000 cycle charge. . Lion or 21700 is only 300 cycle charge.
Ex2 = The second girl who left you? OR the 2 suspension wheel from Gotway?
I think a clue is that the ex2 is the heaviest of all ex's out there
@@aatee5840 Dont bloody tell Ex she is fat mate tis not a clever move...
I'm looking to upgrade from my Sherman to what wheel?
Abwarten ist momentan am besten, vielleicht dann eventuell ein V13. Inmotion wird hoffentlich etwas tolles bringen, bin mir fast sicher
boy did that prototype look ugly lol..... thanks for sharing another fab video and who knows... maybe one day gotway or begode .. or whatever their next name will become (its getting hard to keep up lol) will actually get there with a well designed safe wheel for all!
Lol! Metal boxes with cooling fins pointing the wrong way (WROOOONG WAY) ... perpendicular to airflow. Um?
If they release it before kingsong ?))) Hahaha there is no if, KingSong wheel doesn't exist. This wheel is on the production line already
KingSong's S20 is already sold and scheduled for the end of this year.. did I miss something or are you high?
@@privileguan9127 as for now, according to ks they can start shipping out not earlier than March April. And I'm 1000% it will be a delay. So if the wheel will ever come out it, you more likely enjoy it end of the season or even year after
@@privileguan9127 whoever sold you, probably some greedy deposit driven dealer, that wants to lock you in on an empty promise. They make more money selling ks and inmo than gotway. As gotway is customer oriented company, working and creating wheels 24/7. No promises only actions. While others are pleasing dealers and CZcamsrs and barely can release one wheel per year.
to my feeling is that Begode is in full panic ... It has no product strategy and is getting lost in a thousand senseless streams. Instead of "refining" the successful components of some "successful" models, it is dispersed in a sea of products thrown away in a rambling manner. It would take a few good moves to put the competition in difficulty and capture the attention of loyal customers. One mistake or after another, one bullshit after another. Pity!
Wouldn't a better moniker for the EX20s might be "The Phoenix"? ... an invincible beast, rising from the ashes, reincarnated in mythic proportions. {It could happen.}
Range is most important. Speed is good but range is best. Carrying a dead wheel is not why I spend large money on these products
Anyone has a giveaway wheel for me?
Thankfully I'm not a battery expert...
Looks like they cut a section of the high school football teams bleachers
I'd perfer they refine then release new wheels every year.
make it a 4 year cycle
Just unpacked my inMotion v11.
Charging, updating software, then it died, not one meter driven.
RideFatDaddy refuse to pay for the freight for warrantyrepair.
Unbeliveble bad for a product with that price.
Dang thats awful
did you find out what was the problem?
After reinstalling the app the v11 came to life !! Strange :)
Gotway ceo smoked some really hard stuff. Wtf is that wheel? Looks so cheap. And the rs... why it's totally useless with this range. Idk why gotway want to lose all their customers. Next wheel will be only a wheel with some battery ducttaped to it?!
True... I will not even be looking at BeGotode wheels in the future.... at this stage, they have lost me as a potential customer. I just hope the S20 doesn't turn out to be a flop too.
Max spin. Max tilt back speed.
Range.
Suspention could be nice. Ive never tried it.
Sherman should have tilt back based on voltage. Having it only tilt back at 50kph is not impressing me.
A moded z10 is faster at 58kph.
People say sherman is gast but its not. Its only fast if safety tilt back is off at risk of a total cut out.
Get together firmware coders.
Is anyone hacking firmware?
i hate thost batteries bought a scooter it has them in it ..
i got my money back they said does 40 miles range on a 20Ah battery i get 5-8 miles range can go no were but can have fun.
never by any e bike , scooter , skateboard , one wheel
Making such comments from looking at a picture and spec sheet is less than fair. I am very surprised you are not a champion of the LiFePo4 batteries after showing the fires that can result with Lion batteries. It does not matter how the Lion battery is designed, connected or what kind of BMS it has. If your charger starts a fire right next to it in your apartment, that Lion battery will be the hot spot in the fire that results, that no one can get close to or put out until it burns itself out.
Your assertions that a higher voltage means a faster wheel is not quite true. Certainly for any given motor, a higher voltage means more speed but it is also possible to design a motor that gets the same speed from 48v. It is true that a high speed 48v motor would need very thick wires (so the axle would also have to be bigger for the wires to fit through), the BMS would need to have bigger FETs, more cooling (maybe not if we are talking parallel instead of series) and the motor controller (what you call the mother board) would have to have bigger FETs and a much bigger cooling setup. The biggest reason this is not done is cost.
However, note also, that the higher the voltage you play with, the harder it is to break an arc. Standard AC rated breakers for 220v are only good for 48v DC as an example. The high voltage EUC does not use any physical switches for this reason. It used FETs as switches instead. This is why when a controller "goes south" it is not repairable.
I would like to see you actually test one of these EUCs.... with an open mind. Maybe you have by now :)
Its wrong what you said about Voltage drop in LiFePO4 (LFP)Cells. The drop per Cell is only from 3.65 down to 3.3V. After that Voltage will be like nailed at arround 105V even if riding at Top speed all the time. This is the biggest Advantage of LFP. After that there will be a fast drop down to 3.0V. Liion in comparison have a linear decrease in Voltage over time, so power output will decrease constantly while riding. And LFP is realy much Safer! Have a look at the GWL Videos, they are abusing this Type of cells so hard...LFP/LTO is Future! The Energy density will increase and then it will blow away Liion anyway.
I cannot help myself, but this EX2 is superugly.
gotway does not even try anymore
When is Begode gonna realize that Inmotion and Kingsong wheels rarely catch fire and they use lithium ion cells.
All thins new euc i have head like baloon 🎈 too many pros and cons.
Just technical 116V mean my 100V chargers be obsolete and now need buy new fastchargers or universal charger100-130V (my walet beeding)
C38 motor 1000wh+- i expect hard baterysag like s18 nothing good. why not buy v10f instead 😱(20kg)
For me is 12Amps charging something basic what i expect of long range EUC in 2022 because 3+ hours charging 100km from home on car charger is realy not fun specialy if i am in full safety gear and i canot leave 3000+eur gear insecured.
What hard is just take sherman fill with beter BMS and put there C38 motor but they make abrams with lower range 🤦🏻♀️
Begode make EX-N torque 3th revison weatherproofed beter troley bms model and beter lights with 3200wh battery instatnt sucess.
It's all marketing. New is better or just sell the old crap in a new shell.. 🤑🤑
Someone is thinking ahead. Must be a Tesla owner.
Sorry for the harsh language, but EX2 is fucking nonsense. Sharp angles on such object is just a shortcut to scratching eveything and cutting yourself
also imagine how dirty it will be
First 🥇
The EX -2 is tooo. Ugly, regardless of any advantage that comes with that form factor. It’s a hard no
Gotway just getting worse after each "new" release.
How hard is to fix wiring, add fuses, add waterproofing.. Dum companies being dum. I can tell you that, who ever makes the decisions on design/build quality, don't ride one himself.. Regular euc rider could make better wheels given funds.
(They simply don't want to "remake" all new design of a wheel, because of expenses.. Better use old shit that is already available.. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it still sells and makes them profit.)
True. Then again, same goes for politicians, economy experts of all sorts and so on..
All that matters is selling shiny stuff to superficial people it seems
Seems like an excuse to just keep doing poor engineering. At least if you battery dies it wont burn so I suppose you could still repair the wheel instead of it being a total loss
Very ugly + Gotway / Begode = not safe
Can you PLEASE stop measuring speed and distance in metric or whatever you're using, I'm actually about to unsubscribe entirely - Americans do not understand these figures. Also, not happy with the content overall as someone looking to purchase my first EUC for 2022. What's the best value rn? What's the best EUC for my city? Are there any American channels providing the content I'm looking for?
LOL. Y u so grumpy.