OM-1 II and the new 150-600mm, are you mad? - RED (HOT) Talk EP036
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2024
- OM Systme’s latest camera, OM-1 Mark II and lens, M.Zuiko 150-600mm IS ED, have both created quite a bit of noise over the past week. Today, we want to have a second look and discussion these new products and an opportunity for you to ask a few questions too! Let’s chat
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Why the hate? It's been pretty well understood so far that "Mark XX" updates have always been just that - updates, incremental and usually not so significant. A major upgrade and innovation is usually a new camera 🤷♂️ So the OM1 MkII is just an update - now potential OM2 in theory should be something significant, am I wrong for thinking this?
If OM System had simply announced that moving forward all new OM-1 will have a the OM System branding + here’s a firmware update, there would’ve been minimal complaints from the user base.
You fail to understand everything could not be done in just firmware.
@@Jgatti41not everything, true. Personally a rubberized dial is cool but doesn’t benefit me too much. Improved face detect is all I really need, 14 bit is all I really want. Both, petapixel mentioned could’ve been done in firmware.
@@Jgatti41I really doubt that stance from OMS. To say you can't improve a 2 year old camera and it's dead in the water simply because of 8mb of RAM doesn't make sense. If that truly is the cause OMS should be ashamed of themselves for selling a camera that is dead in the water not even 2 years because of mistakes they made on the system architectural side.
I think a firmware update to the mk I released at the same time would have made the hardware updates clearer and probably give them more perceived value. It would also have kept most of their once-loyal customer base happy.
@@Jgatti41 Can be done... as an embedded engineer - less memory just may take a big longer. but due that its the same chipset - sorry I don't buy this bullshit.
I'm happy with my OM-1 original.
Some nice features in the mark ii, but I wont upgrade. I'd recommend it to others who don't already have an OM-1.
OM officially said there will be no new AF FW feature updates. never say never (to upgrade)
Thank you Jimmy Rod. FYI I started with a G85 but purchased an OM-5 because, I was not convinced that Lumix was committed to photography. In 12 month, I have not used the video function on the OM-5; not really planning on ever getting into video.
As a non action/bird/wildlife photographer, I would be really excited if they brought the gradND and better highres mode to a OM5 or Pen-F sized body. But I’ve always liked the midsized m43 bodies more than the “pro” big boy m43 bodies.
I agree with Rob about OM ignoring an entire genre of photography. I cannot count how many times I have posted complaints on the OM fb posts about lack of human AI detect. About time. They need a pro PEN-F II with better auto focus and some of the newer features. Weather sealing would be nice too.
There's an elephant in the room. Why didn't OM put enough ram in the MkI to support software development and a decent buffer? And did they put enough in the MkII to support future firmware upgrades, or are we supposed to buy the MkIII in 18 months? As for the subject recognition, nobody will convince me that this needs a hardware upgrade. Olympus would have given that to us for free.
OMDS was most likely running against a deadline to stop using the Olympus label, hence the OM-1mk2 and 9-18mm refresh. In other words they may have had little choice but to do what it did. P.s. I believe Petapixel is sponsored by OMDS. Video is important but not at the expense of stills and camera size like Panasonic. The technology is such that you focus on one or the other but must compromise, can't get both at optimum. +1 on extending the PEN line. Dials upgrade could be offered as an option and many would be willing to pay a few hundreds for it.
If that is the case, so be it. But to stop development in the OM1.1 for that reason is shameful.
As an indoor sports/ gym shooter, I'd LOVE to see something from OM System in marketing or even a video showing what it can do in that environment.
I will upgrade my OM1 at some point but as it is a great camera I will continue to use it for now and will replace when needed with the mark Ii. I will purchase the lens within the year as my budget allows. I really don’t care who makes it as long as it gets the job done!
I'd like any small camera with the big OM-1 EVF....I don't care about the other specs, it could be an E-M5 I with the much better EVF for all I care.
@27min you guys nailed the point of MFT for me: high quality, but lower cost and size. Admittedly, if I was still shooting weddings and other low light venues, I’d probably go FF.
I like my OM1, but i feel from a marketing standpoint. If you release a flagship, you want everyone to want to buy it and can't live without it. You mentioned bird photography with buffers, and we know about the landscape upgrade with the filter system. Those are great (ish) upgrades for those fields, but for a lot of OM1 users they will look at the om1m2 more as "that pretty cool but ill keep my OM1 for a later flagship" No, .. what you want is regular OM1 users to go "well my camera is far less than what just came out. I WANT that!" You want newcomers to m4/3rds to look at the om1m2 as "that is awesome! Im gonna give 4/3rds a shot!" You'll sell far less units and probably not a return on investment with minor upgrades. Usally, people that switch formats or cameras are spec junkies. But again, im happy with my OM1. It does what i need, at least.
Also... I still need that MFT 50-200mm or a 90-250mm versions of those two incredible pieces of glass 🥲
ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!
It exists: there is the 50-200 made by Panasonic-Leica brand.
@@chainevide I know, I'd simply prefer an OM/Olympus version - and, tbh, the 4/3 90-250 is the white whale I've been searching for for so long, and a MFT version would be amazing
I recently purchased the m.zuiko 100-400mm. Until then, I used the 40-150mm and cropped. To Jimmy's point, I was amazed how much better the shooting and photography outcomes were by getting closer, using the 100-400, as opposed to cropping. I don't mean simply in terms of resolution, but in terms of composition and content.
People which do wildlife photography, like to do video too.
It would be nice to have advanced video options, good focus on video, 120p for slow motion.
The obvious thing at OM-1 is that subject detection it's not working on video.
Thanks for watching. Subject detection actually works in video mode in OM-1, just not as well. Mark II has improved significantly on that.
As far as I know it works only until you start recording video. From that moment it switches ON the Tracking, if you have it activate it. Still good enough, although the tracking from OM-1 is not very good.
In my professional career which has been over 40 years in photography, I have had Canon, Nikon, H/Blad, Olympus and as of late Sony and in that time have mentioned with reps etc, about things that these cameras have all needed to make what I call a better camera package and looking at all the different videos and comments by users of all brands today, very little has changed over that time, regarding listening. We like to believe that Camera manufacturers are interested in what we say, well maybe to a small point with negative views now expressed though CZcams but in the real world they are all about what makes them money, " we will leave this and that out on this model" and they ( us consumers ) will have to pay again for the fixed problem on the next model. When most professional cameras cost now something like you have to pay for a used, resonable car, I think we should get something like updates for 3 years, not one in the first year and then your forgotten about, something like servicing for cars, now wouldnt that be nice. I did see where it was mentioned the buying of updates, maybe thats the future or is it always going to be a question of "it cant be fixed because the hardware isnt good enough..Food for thought.
I’m holding on to my Pen pl10 and my ep7.
Regarding the Pen line I 💯 percent agree. But I like to add, that it would be even greater, if OM could bring computational features to street and travel photography. I would like to have zone or range focusing at the touch of a button with some kind of overlay in the viewfinder. Hyperfocal distance setting for every lens or fix focus shooting modes would also be great. Maybe also by combining several internal shots similar to focus stacking or Live ND. Maybe life hyperfocal? There is so much potential to improve street shooting experiences. Maybe the ibis could be used to straighten lines or the keystone comp could be automated by using the same sensors the levels use when shooting architecture.
One tip for atmospheric interference or heat waves on long lenses - try hi-res shot. Combining multiple frames like hi-res does will even out the distortion.
It's such a good point about the full frame crop comparison fallacy. There are so many disingenuous comparisons in discussions of a ff body with the 150-600 and an om1ii with the same lens and claiming the ff setup is cheaper. When a proper comparison would be the ff body with a 300-1200mm monster lens! Those are weighed in the tens of pounds!
I'm waiting for a professional CZcams camera/photography reviewer to compare and review the M.Zuiko 150-600mm IS ED against the Sigma Sport 150-600 with a MFT convertor.
Easy... no sync IBIS... just for starters... I tried the 150-600 and the stabilization is years light away from the 100-400. It is based on the Sigma, yes, but it is not the same
Definitely not upgrading to the OM 1 MK2 the MK1 still does everything I need and as for that massive lens not for me as I never do wildlife, and yes I have the 9 to 18mm lens on my Olympus OMD em5 MK2 and it takes very good pictures for its size yes flimsy but is exactly why i went into Olympus in the first place and like Rod I think OM System is moving away from what I want which is a great shame. Hope for a pen f mk2 which I would definitely part with my hard earn t cash for.
i came back to OM System/Olympus from Sony (A1) for better reach and a lighter lens. the 150-600 is 1/3 pound lighter than the Sony 200-600, which i don't think was able to resolve a 50MP sensor. it's not always as simple as double the MP and double the crop. also, love pro capture which the A1 lacks.
I just don't think OM Systems bother to even listen to it's loyal customers. Our goodwill is being eroded rather quickly, and shame on them. Once my rather aged MFT cameras start to degrade, I'm going to sell off all my kit and go to Fuji or Nikon. I've given up waiting for OM Systems to launch a Pen F ii.
My 'Olympus' OM-1 will start gathering dust - at the moment when I go out I take the G9II - I got a reaction from OM today on a mail that I did send about the rumour that there will be no firmware updates for the OM-1.1 - well they confirmed that there are no updates planned. So I use every second to get better knowledge of the G9II rather than invest my time in a dead horse like my OM-1.1 will become. I will invest in Panasonic Leica glass in the coming months.
All lens are compatible on MFT system, so you can use OM lens on Panasonic camera, and reverse. Few function may not work well, as the dual stabilization. Most of automatism will work well !
@@chainevide You don't get it? I am ranting on OM latest moves. Today it even escalated, I got another e-mail from OM, you get til 50% off of the price of the Mark2 - next alinea, you can trade in your Mark1 and deduct that from buying the overpriced Mark2 - they are also dumb in reacting to their customers - that firm is going down the drain!
@@chainevide - But the dual-IS is great to have! I miss it with PL100-400 on my OM1. And I love the OM 12-100 on the OM1, besides dual-IS there is little things like hand-holding guide during long-exposure you won't get with a non-OM lens. I have the OM 100-400 but too doesn't really have dual-IS, and seems to focus poorly on moving birds etc. It too is a Sigma rebrand only with the added effort from OM.
@@tim1398 Sure ! Dual IS is great ! I also have the 12-100, that is a all arround lens very versatile.
Most photographers I know do not use video and if they do just press the red button
Photo and Video are 2 different worlds for sure !
I think it’s a welcome addition to the OM system line, but for the asking price, they could have added some more improvements to the video feature set.
I am fine with the 20 megapixel output as it gives decent dynamic range and iso performance. I would have loved to of seen 14 bit raw files with the native 20 megapixel sensor
Sure... For video, I guess the lattest OMD version still is limited to 30mn also !;) For video, Pnanasonic brand is providing much better solution
The asking price is the same as the MkI + 200€ that accounts for inflation…
OM Systems offered a free trial on lenses. I scheduled two lenses, the 40-150 f4 and the new 150-600. When I went to national camera I didn’t bother to take home the 150-600. It’s big, ugly, and heavy, my 100-400 is big enough. OM Systems missed the boat, should have done in house design where the lens would have been considerable lighter and smaller. I’d never use a lens that heavy, the size was secondary, but if it were lighter I could tolerate the size
It cannot be overemphasised that OM Systems need to make an acceptable internal rate of return for the business to attract investment and survive. Another now relatively minor player in what remains a shrinking market is Leica and therein I understand it has been reported that their most profitability camera line is the Q2. That camera relies up a massive sensor and the ability to crop for creative effect. Surely a PenF Pro with a series of updated Pro spec 1.8 12, 17, 25, 45 and 75mm primes could capture a sufficiently large segment of this market to be profitable? Even if their is no appetite to bring the PenF Pro to market then at least update the lenses so they be used with the weather proof OM camera.
The issue that upset many fans is that OM system modified a 1.5k usd Sigma lens and charge it almost at twice na price.
If this lens is a 100% OM designed and manufactured ( price will probably be higher though) there will be less negative comments.
31.36 yes, that’s me.
I think a new Pen-F could be very successful. The Fuji X100 series and the Ricoh GR III are both very popular.
In the question, you report that someone say that there is no entry level camera. I understand your answer, and this is clear that it is less profitable than high-end cams. But there are still some ! For example, the G90 from Panasonic could be consider as entry-level caù: it cost arround 500€ new when discount exists by some vendors, and without promo, less than 700€. That's much less than an Iphone...
Each new camera brings very significant progress that the previous one did not have and the next one brings significant progress that the previous one did not have and the successor...etc. How did we take photos in the past? All this to have on social networks an overabundance of birds in flight and flies on rose petals against the backdrop of a sunset? Help, take out the Polaroids and take family photos, it will be more useful for future generations.
Although I liked your talk a lot, it is pretty obvious that none of you is into wildlife photography. Especially when you talked about the new 150-600.
First thing is about reach. 1200mm equvilant reach of course sounds brilliant but if you dive into the world of wildlife, you will notice that most of the pro and ambitious hobbyist stick mostly to 600mm and not 800mm or even 1200mm. And this is not only because of the even higher prices. Its mainly due to the many disadvantages you have to deal with : very narrow angle of view, dust in the air, turbulences, faster shutter speeds needed etc.
Hence in many cases you cannot use 600mm with an MFT body properly. It always makes more sense to optimize your skills and get closer to the subject instead of shooting miles away with 600mm. And I see already a lot of people in forums struggling to manage 400mm with MFT.
And if you then go back and compare the FF options without or only mild cropping needed, there are much cheaper options and people will start thinking if they should spent nearly 3 grant for a 150-600 and another 2 for the OM-1 II.
Don't get me wrong - I am shooting with MFT and FF (OM and Sony) and MFT has many advantages and thats why I am still shooting with it. But the 150-600 will have a hard time to compete on the market. OM should have worked on a PRO version of the 100-400 with f4.5 or f5.
Question for Rod: Imagine that you are sitting in front of the finest monitor that money can buy and you are looking at two images of the portrait of the same model: A headshot of a model without make-up. One image is taken with a 40 megapixel camera, the other had been taken with a 20 megapixel camera, but upscaled to 40 megapixels. Otherwise, the model, the settings, the lighting are identical. Rod, could you tell the images apart and say which image was taken with a 40 megapixel camera?
Funny question ! Even a 5 MPix vs 20MPix or 40MPix makes no difference on a 10*15cm print ;)
The only reason for high MPix is to be able to crop much more, and that could be usefull for bird photos, as you are always too far from the subject ;)
@@chainevide thank you
Do you think that people who buy into a camera system are like teenagers that buy into a particular band? I remember, as a teenager, I was really into this band that played 12-bar blues. Then, that band became more of a pop-rock group and I felt that they had let me down. As camera owners, do we expect our brand to develop in a certain way (eg the next model needs a 25 mega pixel sensor) but if it doesn't, they have stuffed up and have let us down?
Sigma makes a 150-600mm lens that you can convert with a Canon EF to OM-1 converter for less than $1,000 for both (used in EBay). What are the advantages of spending $2,700 for the same lens, which is just heavier (the Sigma has the same F range as this OM Systems 150-600)?
Just seen an advert for the Sigma 150-600 Canon fit for £849. That is a lot of value add by OMDS.
Who told you it's the same lens
@HokKan The Sigma 150-600mm F/5-6.3 DG DN OS lens has the same specs as the OM Systems lens. It's made for full frame cameras (Canon, Sony & Nikon) & can be converted to OM System MFT with the use of a converter.
It is not the same lens. My question is how do they compare? Given the reviews of the OM Systems lens, it appears that the Sigma is equal in sharpness. If you have compared them. I'd like to see the side by side photos from each.
@@darryltarr7603 Are you sure the optics has same separation power ?! the resolution demand for MFT is much higher than for APSC body design
@@chainevide - We'll have to wait for a lab lens test to be sure, is there anyone left doing those? I know my basement is too small to try it.
OM Systems should open source firmware. Open it up to the community. Make it easy to flash firmware to switch from video to photo centric. Let people pick and choose features for custom firmware if there is a limitation on size. If that succeeds then make cameras with better processors and more ram.
The OM1 MK2 is intriguing to me but not enough to make me replace my EM1 MK3. If that one broke, I would get the OM1 MK2. On the other hand, the lenses….I’m a bit disappointed that they are just tweaking and rebranding full frame lenses. With camera bodies about the same size as the Full Frame mirrorless, the size and weight advantage would be in the lenses. And yes, I get that the 150-600 is smaller than a Full Frame 300-1200, but it could have been much smaller and that would have attracted a lot more buyers to it. Very few of us want to go much larger than say the Panasonic Leica 100-400 I am currently using. Maybe a little bit to gain the extra 200mm, but not as much as that Sigma based lens.
Bigger is better 😃 Question is when is big big enough ? 🤔
The problem isnt that the new body is bad but that they just seem to drop the support for the om-1. While they always claim that they are keeping our investments at the forefront of technology through software updates but they really dont deliver on this promise. They havent addressed the problems with the af system in the om-1 but it seems like they did in the mkii running largely the same hardware. and thats just bad.
I have the Viltrox autofocus adapter for Nikon F-mount to MFT. I get slow, singel autofocus only, and no sync image stabilisation. I guess this will be the truth for any full frame mount with adapter for mft. For wild life photography this is not a solution over the new 150-600.
Bang on! Frankly, people just don't understand that. Adapting lenses won't perform the same. Cropping high res camera fils to achieve similar results is not even close to what you may actually see it 'close' in the viewfinder. Also, this is a god lens for wildlife filmmakers, because you can't really crop a video files to that close, even with 8K, this is insane!
Tell rod he can get a camcorder
Having spoken at length to Olympus reps back when I bought the EM1X in 2021 I can confirm that Olympus/OM have ZERO interest in competing in the video space. They will continue to double down on birders and related niches. Despite my protesting for over an hour that they are leaving millions of $$$ on the table, that the EM1X's form factor and build were perfect for videographers but badly let down terribly by a max 8-bit codec they just didn't want to know. RIP...
OM (on YT) officially said there will be no new AF FW feature updates for OM1.1 (serious bugs will be patched)
its a dead end, firmware is the death of ALL electronics.
Can someone explain what M. Zuiko is nowadays? It is an actual lens design house, or is it just a brand name OM slaps on 3rd party lenses?
Mad at OM System about the MkII without any firmware update for the OM-1?
Yes. I sold my OM-1 today.
For four years I was completely committed to MFT. I have all the 1.2 lenses, etc.
I will keep GX9 and E-M5 MkIII with some lenses like the 20mm 1.4. But most will be sold.
I now have a Panasonic S5 II. A pleasure. And all the firmware updates they provide as they learn how to master the phase autofocus. Unlike OM System which used the OM-1 as a training ground and now implements the knowledge into an MkII
Firmware update for OM1 has now been announced for the Autumn, bet you feel a bit silly now right !
You can't watch it, Jimmy is just showing off and won't let Rod slowly even speak. off after 10 minutes.
You guys are nailing why I am relooking at m43. I have a Nikon and Fuji. I loved Fuji but they are so slow to update their lineup. They stopped making (IMO) kaizen updates that support the community. Nikon does a great job providing updates. I hope OM embraces the idea of updates to wring every capability out of their cameras, build out variety like PEN, and continue great durability, they can return to prominence. I would trade in my Fuji for an even smaller setup for portability and outdoor/hiking. I love my Nikon Zf and wouldn’t part with it but I would use it more for low light, fun, manual vintage lens fun and an occasional fashion shoot. If I see them give some updates to OM-1 v1, I will jump in.
Hi, Jimmy! Sorry for late comment.
You guys discussed about OM System's devotion too far toward wildlife plus forgetting about Pen-f line.
Before when they were a part of Olympus, they promoted products not for professional but mainly for girls and moms. E-M10 line was for moms and E-PL line was for girly photographers.
I remember in the interview of Mr. Kataoka (in Japanese language), he described that they could not produce what they wanted because of politics in a huge med tech company.
So I hope now pendulum just swung to far toward wildlife. It will swing back in mid point someday.
Plus I feel OM System produced the upgrade of their flagship model too soon.
Getting new customer is needed, but I think it's important to follow up OM-1 users who supported the OM System at the beginning. Less than 2 years is too soon.
On the 150-600mm. My only concern is whether it has same frame rate and image quality restriction when shooting in SH mode like in my 100-400mm.
If you already have the A1 or R5 etc then maybe cropping is the thing. Of course you may not want to drag your $8000 camera setup out into the bush. Before I bought the Om1 mk1 I priced out a Canon R5 kit and to get the same megapixels on a subject was going to cost too much more. That said it seems like Om asks a real premium for their lenses. The e-mount version of the 150-600 is more than $1000 less. Sure OM did some value-add to get the sync IBIS, weather proofing, and maybe other improvements but it still seems steep.
Would rather the current stacked BSI sensor than the 25MP old tech sensor. Different people have different requirements. For what I photograph, the PEN-F style camera is of no use. Street photographer, the OM-1 is overkill and too big. I bought the Panasonic G9 well after it was released and they never fixed the hair trigger shutter button. Even the battery grip had the same issue. Canon, Nikon and so on have their own issues. Yes, wish they improved the video in the Mk II. I only do short videos, but the focus can be a pain. I use to be a Canon shooter for 10 years and have had issues with their gear and have bashed them for their stupidity. In 2019 I switched to the m4/3 system and for wildlife photography it is a great system and have created amazing images even using high ISO. I have made 16"x20" prints from cropped images. For my use FF is a complete waste. OM does need to provide gear for other style of photographers. Of course, you have to see which models will actually sell enough to warrant the cost of development and producing. I use 120fps fairly often for wildlife video, very useful for my requirement. Not brand loyal or a fanboy. I have no problem bashing my equipment. If you get good/great results from your equipment, then that is all that matters. I don't miss the old and retro style cameras. They are not ergonomic and contorting the finger to get to the shutter button. If you like, you like. Just my 0.00000003 cents (after inflation). There are those that change camera system more often than some change socks.