What Went Wrong With Greek Basketball?
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- The glorious days of Greek basketball seem to be in the rearview mirror. While Giannis Antetokounmpo is perhaps the best basketball player in the world at the moment, there are many problems that have pushed Greece out of basketball elite. In this video, Gytis chats with BasketNews journalist Giorgos Kyriakidis to uncover why Greek basketball has been on a downfall in the recent decade.
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Giannis Antetokounmpo is not only Greek but he is Greek. It's by law that he can acquire citizenship after 18years. He was born here he grew up in Greece and he is a greek ...well human. But not DNA of course. As far as basketball goes I wouldn't say he is a product of bucks system as well as filiathlitikos. He has his own philosophy.
Also. How can you regard olympiacos etc totally greek teams? Foreign coach, foreign players? How many greeks playing? Does this matter. Does only greek euros matter?
Bro, if you have lived with Galis Giannakis (which I don't like that much) etc, you cannot and should not forget about the past.
I wouldn't want half an NBA washed up roster or anything winning Greece a final four or euroleague title or whatever.
It's like saying that the bulls need a roster of Jokic, Doncic, Antetokounmpo, and maybe an american or two to relive the Jordan years.
No. Bulls with Jordan are unforgetable. And Jordan is the head of it.
Car vertical is a scam, you should not be associated with them. Do your homework.
I am 45. During the 80's, 90's and early 2000's people played in the open courts until 1-2 am. Damn I remember being cursed out cause people wanted to sleep. Nowdays its only empty courts. People are afraid to let their young ones out on their own. Especially in the big cities. I grow up where mothers used to go out on their balconies and yell at their children to come in for dinner. My wounds on my knees and ankles NEVER healed. Now its a screen.
Also you know, there were ACTUAL heroes back then. Galis, Giannakis, Christodoulou, and the NBA guys brought later in the 90s.
Even we, in the 00s. We had Diamantidis, Spanoulis, Papaloukas, Fotsis, Tsartsaris, etc.
Now what do you have? Walkup, Dorsey and Giannis?
And I don't want to make the "nationality" argument. However, I would like to ask if they are committed enough. If they feel the same thing the past guys did.
Αδερφέ υπάρχουμε κάποιοι ακόμα κάτω των 20 που παμε στα γηπεδακια. Ζήσαμε και εμείς στην μετάβαση. Πίστεψε με το συναίσθημα αυτο που περιγράφεις είναι αληθινό και το έχουμε νιώσει και κάποιοι από εμας! 10-15 χρόνια πριν πόσο διαφορετικά ήταν τα παιδιά... Και μακαρι να το ξαναζήσουμε. Μπάλα, ιδρώτας, τσιμέντο, ξύλο με φίλους, αντιπαλότητες, κόντρες... ΤΡΕΛΑΑΑΑ
The good old days
We are still playing basketball in open courts.
@@nikostripylas4218 not to the same degree . Do you feel it happens with the most? Or with the less ?
I think the main problem stems from the Greek basketball league. If you take some time to watch a game you'll notice that most coaches choose already developed Americans players rather than the Greek youths. As a result all the young Greek talents gets shoved at the end of the bench with minimum playing time. A system like this can not cultivate and develop great athletes. The best upcoming young Greek is Rogkavopoulos and if you look at his career you'll notice that in order to develop as a player he had to play overseas in Tukrey and Spain, otherwise he would have been rotting in the bench of some mediocre Greek basketball club.
The similar things happened to Russian national team and league
Same for Turkish league @@user-nh1yb9mk7y
Ifif you take some tiem to watch it , it is a shit tournament except for 2 teams, whule before it was great pne and medium teams in rankings showed all freat plauers. This year it is little
Percent better
As a Greek I can confirm it. Btw why does this channel have ONLY 127K subs?
As a greek i believe one of the main reasons is that we focus more on football (in which we suck, a lot) instead of focusing on basketball which we are by far better.
I thought Serbia was the only one with such predicament 😅.
I guess Germany is the same at the moment, but at least they used to be great in football unlike our countries (other than Greece in 2004, which I still can't explain)
@@nnnp634Greece had a golden football age from 1998-2014 including clubs but other than that they have been mid
@@ChristosTzoannis Define golden football age.
Except Euro 2004 what else was worth mentioning? (Maybe 16 at world cup but thats all)
Our football Clubs suck every year and cant even compete at the 3rd european division and if i remember correctly were also struggling a lot to get wins in the past.
At least serbia makes it to the world cup, greece?
Everyone remembers euro 2004 but after that they didn't even made it to germany 2006, they went to south africa but then the greeks have nothing from the 21st century in terms of accomplishments
Football is crap league in Greece. Greece had great competitive league in basketball during the nineties. Football, ans basketball last years is bad tournamwnrs. This year it is very little better, in comparison to tournaments of past 20 years
Congratulations for the excellent study and presentation of the topic. I am 50 years old and I have been a basketball coach in Greek academies from 1993 to 2008, from the good times to the bad times and I experienced the gradual degradation which in my opinion in the basketball development part is due to the following reasons: 1) Reduction of financial assistance from the state, 2) footballization of basketball clubs, 3) chasing the result using zones in defense and many screens in offence, leaving the learning of the basics of basketball second, 4) display of basketball managers and children's trade of players, 5) weakening of local small basketball clubs due to the transfer of small players to the academies of big teams such as Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, Aris, Paok, etc. 6) the consecutive failures of national and collective teams abroad 7) the overpromotion of football in the country, 8) the mentality of the new generation of easy result and the excessive use of new technology. Keep up the very good work you are doing. We always follow you with interest. Nikos - Athens.
Gia sous Nikos. I see the same future in Serbia, especially if the clubs get privatised. You can see it with the development of Jokić who came from a privately owned club Mega and we haven't seen him in the national jersey since 2019. My hopes are with the Partizan's youth development system but even though I'm a Zvezda fan I don't like what Obradović is doing with the current Partizan roster with too much iso play and "hero ball" with the American players. Zvezda's problem is the corruption within the club.
Also, the ABA league brings nothing positive to Serbian basketball and instead is only helping much worse and undeveloped basketball of neighbouring countries. Too much time, money, and energy is being wasted by clubs like Zvezda and Partizan playing in arenas that can't house even five thousand fans in Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro and Bosnia.
I also believe that connections between Greek and Serbian basketball is being lost due to the privatisation of the sport and commercialisation (betting investors) of the leagues where we don't see as much young talent being developed between us. The last one I know of was Pokuševski who's talents are being wasted in the US.
I've lived in Athens for almost two years, played basketball on Strefi, and at PAO courts at Alexandras. At Fokianos guys were too high flying for me. I've noticed that at Alexandras most of the younger players are Filipinos and not Greek. I have a dream of acquiring a youth coaching license when time allows and hopefully coming back to Greece, continue learning the language and coaching young kids.
All the best to all my Greek brothers and sisters.
Servia kai Ellada, aderfia gia panta.
Good evening Milan. I completely agree with what you pointed out and I see that you are a good observer of the Greek basketball reality since you have passed through basketball areas of Athens that only those very experienced in Greek basketball know. I confess I was not aware that there was a problem in the infrastructure of Serbian basketball. If there is a problem in Europe's leading player production machine as at least Serbia was, then the Greek problem I understand is a small part of a bigger issue. I don't know where this will end up. My greetings to brotherly Serbia.
@@milangrujicic4679
I believe that the second tier clubs, AEK, Aris, PAOK, Peristeri, should build a stable core of young talented greek players. It is the only way for young players to gain game time. My opinion is the Euroleague structure is killing european basketball as well. Domestic competition would skyrocket if the top 2 or 3 teams gained access to EL
I 100% agree with you about Euroleague killing European basketball, but I guess EL has more important things to do like expanding to Dubai.
I agree, f*ck licenses and wild card system. Everybody was against football super league but basketball fans don’t complain about euroleague and eurocup, I really don’t understand and I say this whereas I am a JL Bourg fan in Eurocup.
We need to come back to a more traditional qualification system
I also believe that the way young greeks are learning the game is wrong.
Coaches still today haven't understood that children should first develope the basics such as dribbling, shooting etc and learn about dynamic hedge out or spread pick'n'roll later in their life...
That's why we never have great shooters or players that play well in transition etc.
@@dioratikon this is a huge issue since I was young. Born in 81, started playing basketball at the age of 10, we were focusing on defense and numerous systems while we should focus on the basics. We started dunking at the age of 15 and the coaches would punish the whole team if someone dunked. I was playing as a 4/5 and I shot a 3 in a game and I was benched for the next 3 games. Instead of moving forward I think we are trapped on the same loop.
@@josselincropier5737exactly.. EL needs to bring back qualification via domestic league rather than license
The problem is that the Greek teams are investing a lot of money at foreigner players, rather than Greek players. The same is at football as well.
10:35 yooo, that's my hometown team Karditsa, we made it into BasketNews! :D
Sadly, the crisis of Greek basketball is only just beginning. Players like Sloukas, Calathes, Papanikolaou, and Thanasis are going to retire in 2-3 years, and Giannis will probably retire from the National team around that time. We don't have the personnel to replace any of these players. No, not even Thanasis.
The root causes of this problem are many. Like you said in the vid, Greek players don't get a lot of playing time in Greek teams, Karditsa has 18 y.o..Neoklis Avdalas which some American scouts called "the Greek Doncic" (they're exaggerating, but he's great) and he only gets 11 mins of playing time our team that's near the bottom of the standings. Our small town team often runs 5 Americans instead of playing any Greeks, young or otherwise!
But the problems start at a younger age. For players in high school, it's often the parents that get to dictate how much their son will play instead of the coach, because they nag the coaches all the time, so kids that aren't as good get more playing time over better players who don't get to develop properly.
Also, our coaching style doesn't emphasize shooting that much, which in today's style of basketball is simply unacceptable. And dribbling is almost a cardinal sin here.
Lastly, and this is a rumor I've heard so take it with a grain of salt, player agents are only in it for a quick buck. So they don't care if the young player they're representing gets no playing time in a powerhouse team, as long as the player gets a fat contract and therefore the agent gets a big cut off that contract as well, which is all they care for.
We do have some talents in Greek basketball but the problem is that the two big Greek clubs are “killing” the guys by putting them on the bench. All the talents choose to go to this two clubs and not in the rest of Europe. Also,a big academic problem is,that they are not create shooters and scorers but just “soldiers”. We have talent,we do have a protagonist place in every companion but we need to have the mentality!!
I am not Greek, but as someone who closely follows basketball on all levels I'd say there are three reasons why:
1. The quality level and depth of their national team players has not been the same as it once was. Yes, Greece has Giannis, but other players don't even come close to the quality that Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Printhezis, Papaloukas had. Not enough depth and star players mean it's tougher to win medals.
2. Youth development seems to be stagnating. There are some talents like Avdalas, Alexakis, Samodurov, Andrej Stojakovic(if he chooses Greece), but that number isn't enough to make you a big threat in international competitions. Think about teams like France which produce about 3/4 high level talents every year.
3. The rise of some national teams both European and international. The level of competition 25 years ago and now isn't the same. Some teams that were still in early development then(Spain, France, Germany) are much better now. Teams like Canada, Australia are also on the rise, which can be supported by number of their players who play important roles in nba and good european teams, and they keep producing new stars for the future. Tougher to win a medal when you have to go against a team consisted of 5 nba stars, 5 great nba role players and 2 great europeans.
Especially the third reason is very important. Many more countries now are developing basketball players and basketball as a whole. So, Greece was recently defeated from Checz rebublic or Finland. Who would have expected something like that 20 years ago.
I agree with you on all points, however on point #2 I think it's unfair to compare Greece with a country like France. France has >6 times the population of Greece, and they also use their former colonies for their player pool. Greece with its current population can't compete with that.
Now if you were to mention Serbia as an example? Yeah, I got nothin', there's no excuse for Greece there.
No Greek players in the league. Most of them have secondary roles in their teams.
The downfall is in every aspect of the country, starting from the economy, it is not about basketball. Investing stopped for every sport. Basketball clubs are funded from owners and not the state. Owners stopped spending money in sports (except the 2 big clubs). This explains 95% of the problem. If the economy grows again, the domestic league will start to be competitive again and local talent will be produced again. The infrastructure still exist (there is a basketball court in every neighborhood) and the Greeks still love the game.
we had the 3 best guards the eurleague had ever seen PLAYING TOGETHER!!
i highly doubt such an era will come back any time soon.
but here is a little kid named neoklis avdalas aged 18 that shows some potential. maybe more will rise alongside with him and we can do something within the next decade.
i also trust in spanoulis as a coach. he knows how to win. i be he will get better resuts than all the previous teams, he knows the way
It doesn't matter if we are in decline, 1987 and 2005 means everything to us. We will be coming back until we make it happen again with or without great talent with or without resources. There is still great passion surrounding the Greek basketball community, as long as this remains we are still in the game.
Intersting video. Could same be said for some other countries like Italy and Croatia? Honest question since I live in Indiana.
Although you have some valid points and I agree with you about the Greek NT, the Greek league and the young players, the Greek teams in Euroleague are far away from a downfall. It is a fact, that the last title was in 2013, but still Olympiacos reached four f4 since then, and Panathinaikos has had some great series in top 8. Especially in the current campaign the two Greek teams belong to the top tier and the future seems optimistic for both of them...
Your points are spot on:
1. No long term planning
2. Emotional attachment to victories and past glory
3. Below average academies
3 finals and 4 F4 for Olympiacos after 2012. Not a small feat
*after 2013 you meant
Thats club achievements, not national team's
doesnt matter at all to the problem
Fantastic analysis, even better from a greek journalist specialized in basketball!
Economic Crisis and covid hit all countries but in a country of only 10 mil people, when you add such negative factors it will hurt talent upbringing much more than Spain or France. But I don't think that's the biggest problem. The lack of longterm viable design is the main issue, the big teams don't have the patience to build on younger players and the rest of the teams don't have money and chances to build something that works and are treaded as permanent poor relatives.
While the Greek national team has been underperforming for more than a decade, the younger national teams have done well at times, but all those talented kids haven't translated to talented adults for lack of investment in them. I think young talent in Greece has to go abroad and get chances, like Kalaitzakis did in Lithuania, or Rogavopoulos in Turkey and Spain, or maybe try US colleges. Matzoukas should have gone to a European team one level bellow Euroleague and get 20 minutes gametime not polish PAO bench.
Spanoulis coach will guide us again in success🇬🇷🏆
Great national team manager
With what career? 2 years of FIBA experience? 🤣🤣
Ένας κούκος δεν φέρνει την άνοιξη
@@DimShamrock You are PAO fan not a Greek fan...so dont comment here
@@kostasoly9318 I am a making sense fan.
He's not even a Euroleague manager. Also I commented here far before you did, fishbone.
We haven't embraced the more offensive way basketball is played. Kids even nowadays are taught that isoplay, 3pt shooting are a bad way to play the game. So we do not produce shooters, 1v1 players that can create their own shoot.
It has nothing to do with that. They just don't have enough touches and opportunities to shoot the ball and remain in their team and 4th and 5th option in an offense scheme
There is definitely some truth to this statement. While the American AAU development system has gone TOO FAR in that direction and lost site of team fundamentals and off-ball defense, the weaker European development systems have the exact opposite problem with anything iso-play related being a dirty word.
That makes sense. It's a bit sad to see mostly Calathes, but rest of the players as well, shooting enough bricks to build all tourist apartmenrs in Greece.
To be fair, Serbia is not a three point juggernaut either and does relatively well, but at least there's Bogdanović and a few other guys can shoot from time to time
Corruption happened.
@@user-ho6yz3ex5d Τι σχέση έχει ο Λιολιος με τον Ολυμπιακό. Με τον Φασουλα συντάχθηκε. Αλλά εσείς προτιμούσατε τον υποψήφιο του Βασιλακοπουλου. Τον γιατρό με διαρκείας στο οακα για να μην αλλάξει τίποτα μπεεε.
@@user-ho6yz3ex5dΜε τον βασιλακοπουλο κερδιζες δικαια και ο Λιολιος οπως και ο Μπερτομεου σε κυνηγουν μπεε.
Great analysis!! Cudos for your work!!!
The 2005-2009 National Team was the most talented of all time.... Diamantidis Spanoulis and Papaloukas together..... not even metntion the rest of the team.....if 1987 was the rise, the 2005-2009 was the peak...
lack of fundamentals on young players, and i have an example for you, nikos rogavopoulos is the biggest hope but compare him physical condition to the other players of his age , it seems greek athletes are not taking care of their body and that starts from young ages. Also coaching practices and managers definetely influence the situation.
Well we can say same thing about Lithuania. Fiba became super competitive. It is hard to win something. Even in Europe where 6-7 teams can easily make it to the finals and you even wouldn't be surprised.
The main reason is we produce defensive players and noone promotes scorers here... Coaches in young teams want "soldiers" that focus on tactics, defense instead of scoring and showing talent thats the main problem
At 90s every neighbourhood in Athens used to have a couple of basketball clubs and many open basketball courts..
It was the effect of the 87 success
I remember that days in my school almost every boy and some girls also used to join a local baskball club..
For teenagers of 90s basketball was the most popular sport by far
This is the very same thing that happened to Italy’s basketball.
As our economic system collapsed after being waterboarded and preyed upon by EU, there was no money anymore for basketball, for schools, and for youth’s basketball in schools and elsewhere.
Pair this with a market open to non local players, and there is no space for the few promising young players to grow.
Fellow 🇬🇷 friends, we’re brothers 🇮🇹 in this irreversible downfall. 😢
Interesting video. And there are several countries that have gone down the same way as Greece. Spain and Argentina in particular, it's not even close to previous generations and the future dosent look very bright. Sort of mistery to me, when they are so dominant in other sports. I also thought Brazil and Nigeria were gonna get really good as well. It kinda makes me wonder a bit about this catching up narrative that has emerged.At least it seems a bit exagerated. The gap Is not like 92 anymore, obviously, and there are more and more international players in the NBA. But right now, on a Fiba level are there any South American and European team as good as thoose Manu and Gasol led teams? Spain played better than the redeem team, and the US were lucky not loosing that gold medal as well. Also curious how you guys feel about precsent day Lithuania, are they as competive as previous teams with Siskauskas and Jasikaviceus or the Sabonis, Marciulonis side?
Guys please do a video about the tragic situation of Italian basketball 🏀 (clubs and national team).
thats true, not just basketball but football too, italy is a shell of what it was in 90s 00s
@@NostalgicMem0ries I dont think so. Italian football, at least clubs, are thriving. Every single european championship final had an Italian team last year, also yesterday one defeated a PL team 4-0. Maybe you mean the national team. About this, yeah, they got out of world cup twice in a row. Not sure if it was bad luck or bad performance... At Greek football we're also falling down
@@PanagiotisXD i meant national teams of basketball and football. clubs are mixed from all around world players, so dont represent italy that much
I mean the made the quarter finals and beat silver medalists Serbia so not too bad
The whole country suffers from the complete absence of any plan for the future. Basktetball as well..
What about the other 3 Euroleague finals of Olympiacos and the consecutive final 4s? Why keep ignoring from last time we won the euroleague?
How many times during the last decade did the Greeks show up with a full squad? Respect the competition and bring your best. Then we can judge.
Mentioning AEK after Marousi and Makedonikos was based af :P
Seems as a surprise to me that PAOK (my team) and Aris where mentioned in this video as they are long forgotten in their turmoil 😢 So the main factor is one and is the foreigners in the league, as 6 are allowed there is not much room in the playing time - development of greek players and furthermore the stockpiling of Greek talent in the Eternal ones seems as the last blow in the development of Greek talent (see Toliopoulos rise especially this season since he was a bench warmer in his Olympiacos days)
Spot on. There is no plan.
The overall mindset that we have as a country. We do like to rush things instead of working progressively towards a goal. Coaches should teach the new generations the fundamentals of basketball instead of caring about winning at ages 10-15. Of course, good coaches cost money, and only a few families can afford expensive academies. Also, young, talented coaches are getting discouraged by the low payments, and instead, they decide to put energy into alternative careers.
I partially agree with this ....but talent is there.... although there is a slight decrease in young children going to basketball clubs and academies the number is still high and from my knowledge all Child and youngsters Greek national teams have had some good results plus clubs in youth championships are always in good form.....all they need is to be trusted by big Greek club's to get some quality playing time to improve
Actually, Dimitris Giannakopoulos for the last 2-3 years had abandoned the team. That is why the team was nowhere near as we knew it. This year he decided to come back and to invest money. He spent lots of money because when you don't compete for 3 years you need to overpay players in order to join the team. Olympiacos,yes, they have built a good team, but before Giannakopoulos abandoned the team they were always losing to us. Also, don't forget that Bertomeu and his missionaries have been slaughtered Panathinaikos for the past years. Regarding basketball in general, Euroleague being a league for few definitely plays a huge role in people not investing in basketball. You can't really blame them. This has to change. It needs to become something like champions league in football. Economic crisis definitely played a role, but not a major one. There is also no FFP in euroleague. Teams like Barca and Real depend on their football clubs money. They can invest as much money as they want. The second most important reason is that there is not an actual plan for young kids in terms of academies, facilities etc. There are people with knowledge who want to work on it, but there are others who don't let them...
As a greek I confirm this downfall. A lot of top level players as Sloukas, Calathes, Papanikolaou are near to the end of their career and seems that they aren't new talent to appears at this level. I don't think that only Giannis could lead Greek National Team to win a medal.
It wasn't many years ago that Promitheas tried to use a developmental system for young players. Facilities ,youth tournaments. Playing young guys. But most of these projects selected to rot in Olympiacos and Panathinaikos bench just for the sake of the money. Nobody trusted a system that if continued right was destined to succeed. But instead of trying to adopt this system every team tried to make it fail. And it graciously did. So if this doesnt change there is no hope
Current situation of Greek tournament basketball is terrible.
It used to be that not only Aris Paok Marroussi Peristeri Iraklis but even Sporting or other teams were very hard to beat.
Greek league will need to find way to make medium teams much better
I think greece is missing scouting within the Greece. Aside from the big 2 teams. Also i guess they dont get as much coaching as the main team even if they are scouted. I'd love to see friendly games of basketball between new names.. like second teams from many clubs in greece that would contain mostly greeks or very young talents from anywhere in the world. I think this would help a lot.
Spanoulis is our king 👑 🇬🇷💪
I'll never forget him, the best player I've witnessed.
Diamantidis and Galis are my 2 pics for greek basketball goat... Vasili simply played too long, we all witnessed some lame performances at the end, but, absolute legend... Diamantidis withdrew at his peak, and Nikos, well, he was kind og his own😊
δεν μπορεί ο Σπανούλης να συγκριθεί με τον Γκάλη
@@aftastosk6016Τι κατεκτησε ο γκαλης και τι ο σπανουλης ?
@@DeletedMemoriezο Γκάλης, όχι μόνος του βέβαια, ανέβασε το ελληνικό μπάσκετ στην κορυφή. Μπορεί η ΑΕΚ να πήρε το κυπελλούχων το 1968 αλλά αυτό συνέβη στο τέλος της ερασιτεχνικής εποχής για το ευρωπαϊκό μπάσκετ. Ακόμα και τότε οι αντίπαλοι της ΑΕΚ διαμαρτυρήθηκαν για το ανοιχτό γήπεδο και το σκληρό παρκέ διότι αυτή η εποχή ουσιαστικά είχε ήδη παρέλθει. Την δεκαετία του '70 το ευρωπαϊκό μπάσκετ έγινε επαγγελματικό, τα κλειστά γήπεδα με το μαλακό παρκέ έγιναν ο κανόνας, άρχισαν να έρχονται αμερικανοί στην Ευρώπη, εμφανίστηκε το τρίποντο...το ελληνικό μπασκετ ξεπεράστηκε και όταν ο Γκάλης έφθασε στην Ελλάδα είχε πιάσει πάτο. Ο Σπανούλης κατά κάποιο τρόπο τα βρήκε έτοιμα. Είχε ως μέντορα τον Γιαννάκη. Με το Γκάλη όμως ανεστράφη η πορεία προς την αφάνεια. Έναν νέο Γκάλη ψάχνουμε και τώρα....
@@aftastosk6016 Οταν επαιζε ο Γκαλης υπηρχαν ακομα Μαμουθ στη γη
We didn't do well to the world basket because 6 of our important players were missing, and we were playing with substitutes, which is the reason we reached until round of 16 (which is also good for a substitute team). I am sure that in the future we are going to win a title, as we have the players for it and we deserve it, and if we had all our important players we would have reached the final,or even won USA.
The biggest issue that prevails in Greece at the moment in the matter of basketball, because I am an amateur player in a local league, is the budget of each team that is burdened by the organizers with extra money and cannot support their infrastructure. This results in them not being able to bring in new players and if new players come out, they don't have the support of someone. As far as the national team is concerned, my opinion, as I have also told Greek journalists, is that they want to rely on a player who cannot play European basketball and has stayed in the spectacle caused by the NBA
You wanna know what really happened?
Read this carefully.
Firstly , yes I do agree that kids are attached to screens and there is numerous negatives. Yes I do remember myself playing basketball all day at my backyard and that’s a rare phenomenon nowadays. In addition even kids that are registered to youth academies and participate to practices etc are really struggling to concentrate and face various difficulties.
The reasons above play a role but the most significant one is economy.
At the 90s and 20s you could make a fortune playing for even Division C team. I remember my teammates had 35,000€-40,000€ salary on a division C team plus housing and everything.
So there was professionalism even at low divisions and more and more kids were attracted by that fact that they can make it.
In todays era , salaries are 10,000-20,000€ for most Greek players playing Division 1.
With the rise of the Division 2 , Elite league , we might see a boost to those salaries the majority of Greek guys I would say 80% of them have contracts at this range.
We are talking about top division right? It’s unacceptable. Now if you make it to the top3-4 teams yes you might have an extremely good salary but that percentage is too low.
Also , studies and basketball are two things that are much different in Greece , you cannot combine them and be professional player at a very high level. So most kids and young guys are caught in the middle of that. Some don’t study at all and chase the dream , some try to combine them but they don’t have the progress that they thought.
So to conclude , what will save Greek basketball once and forever?
Make Greek league a closed league with contracts and everything. Whoever wants to be in top division must have a 1 million budget.
Secondly , set a salary standard for example the lowest yearly salary for a Division A should be 16,000€
Thirdly in order to promote young talents the closed league is great thing because there is no risk developing players. In addition teams that use for example players under 23 should get a bonus at the end of the year by the Greek national federation.
Last but not least we need better infrastructure and more modern gyms and facilities to work better on youth development
I’m 15 and I live in romania, where basketball is taken as a joke kinda everywhere except for one city. I wish i lived in a basketball loving country like serbia or greece, I feel like that would help me become a much better player overall and help me love and apreciate basketball even more
One factor was also the introduction of the EURO as our currency... The amount of "black money" available for investment in the teams dropped significantly. I think theres an interview of ivkovic that stated the exact same thing... The black bags filled with money disappeared...
I disagree with Giorgos’ assessment. Our youth system is the problem 100%, but it has nothing to do with screens. The last time Greece won a medal was in 2009. From 2010 onwards we have the rise of basketball analytics which proved the value of the three point shot. Greek youth coaching system didn’t get the memo. Modern basketball is build around spacing and the three point shot and Greek coaches historically DISCOURAGED kids from honing their shooting skills. It’s all about training tactics and discipline. We are left in 2009. We don’t know how to shoot threes or defend against them. That’s the true issue behind the decline of the Greek national team. For the clubs, especially AEK, it’s more pedestrian. The lack of access to euroleague basketball (we are talking a team that participated in final fours starting from the 1960s all the way to ‘00s) kills the interest of fans. Closed euroleague is detrimental to European basketball imho.
do this about lithuania
Lithuania got 6th at the most recent WC so haven't fallen as fall as Greece
@@gabepizzaTrue, but their standard in international tournaments is way higher than Greek.
@@gabepizzayeah, but it’s not enough man. Lithuania wants medals!! Medals are the only achievement for us.😃
The game is different now and we haven't adopted.
i think it all about fundamentals and funding(as mentioned)we are producing solid role players we focus too much on tactics and less on individual growth,all our greats were co-produced -giannis galis-or a result of individual work and ambition-spanoulis diamantidis etc,teach the kids how to shoot,let them grow,right now we got giannis and no shooters
In respect to kids looking at screens. That's exactly what children in my family do. They're 100% addicted more than the adults. They look at their cell phone, tablet, computer screen especially watching CZcams videos and playing pointless games ALL DAY LONG. When I suggest we go for a simple walk they get angry. One of them complains when we walk 30 feet that it's to long and his feet hurt. When we take a real walk, they start screaming and crying 15 minutes into it. They're about 10 years old! Not sure what to do. I try to encourage them to watch something educational and they get mad. I suggest we kick a ball around, or throw/catch a ball, or try shooting a basketball and they barely want to move. Again, not sure what to do. I started being active so they can see me improve my health (and I'm grateful I did that for myself), but I'm not so sure it had any affect on them. When I was their age I ran all over the place. These kids sit on the couch all day and are fat. When I take away the computer mouse or hide their phone, they look miserable and depressed and they make me look like a bad person when I suggest we get some fresh air. Anyone else facing similar issues?
Greek Basketball League is very competitive this year🇬🇷💪
nice video but i dont agree when u talk just for eurolegue titles and the last was 2014 cause olympiacos have made 3 finals since then and if llull would not score the last shot in last final u would not have done this video. Anyways the biggest problem in greece was the basketball federation cause after 2008 no one really cared about development in the greek league beyond olympiacos and panathinaikos and led to a system that has no incomes and cant produce many players . The last years the basketball federation has changed and i think that this will help to the growth of greek basketball
Olympiacos deserved last year's Euroleague...the best team and the best basketball...
Well, game has evolved yet Greece’s players production process hasn’t. There is a lack of shooters due to the fact that kids are not encouraged to shoot and play 1 on 1 at a young age. As a result it’s rare that someone develops such instincts. Tactics are introduced at an early age and that limits creativity. Plus, coaches focus a lot on short term winning instead of long term talent development. All that along with professional Greek clubs (excluding powerhouses) assigning important roles on low quality American players or veterans instead of promising local players
Let's not forget that the development system in GR is lacking in terms of supporting young athletes pursuing their professional career. When a child turns 18 parents usually decide to invest their money on their child's studies rather than pursuing basketball. And since the system of university/college basketball is not as organized and developed, a big number of kids drop the sport, resulting in a talent gap for the ages of 18-24.
The issue was 1) teams did not want to invest play-time in great Greek young talent players, which they would buy but not put them to play.
2) coaches when the teams had issues did not want to invest in Greek young talent players
3) the crisis impacting bug teams
4) the crisis impacting medium Greek teams (which would give more time to younger players)
5) other reasons and reasons in video
I mostly agree with the video but i wouldnt focus only in Greek basketball . You mentioned Spanoulis Diamantidis Papaloukas and ofc we are not even close to produce something near to their level ,but who is the next Macijauskas Jasikevicius Siskauskas for the Lithuanians?Who is the next Llul Sergi Navarro or Rudy ? the next De Colo or Fournie ? Are rhe Russians close to produce a talent like Sved? I wont even mention the Croatia national team and the talent they used to have . At PG and SG positions all Europe seems to have an issue to produce top level players exept Serbia in my eyes.
Kids in Serbia, Spain, Croatia etc have smartphones too, not just the Greeks, the comment "kids nowadays" lead to wrong conclusions. My personal experience as a Greek that grew up in the basketball boom generation (being a kid in 1987): The success lived in the late 80's 90's and 00's was at a great extend due to the enthusiasm that was created by the national team Eurobasket 87 win and affected the whole country in its entirety. Despite lack of infrastructure and academies this enthusiasm brought an immense amount of talent including the periphery of the country. The end point for this talent production was the creation of the Euroleague and the close league system. When just 2 teams from Athens/Piraeus can now have a secure place while for anyone else in order to get in, would require huge amount of money with no return of investment short term, the local league has gone flat. Kids in the periphery (that was producing a good amount of talent - see Diamantidis and Spanoulis) don't play basketball anymore, infrastructure and academies weren't built in the meantime and so there you go, no talents. Basketball interest basically involves 2 teams supporters (50% of the potential talent population) instead of the 80-90% as it used to be, leading to a talent drought ..During the good times they should have created more infrastructure and academies that would have balanced a bit the Euroleague disaster (like Spain has). And some idiots think that a team from Dubai will fix things...
Coach zeliko obradovic produced legends. He was patient and gave them time to learn and play. Coach dusan ivkovic did the same. Unfortunately new coaches prefer the result and do not think about the future of greek basketball. Let me give an example. Barca and real use young players even though the lose during the game. In greece we will see young players less than 3 minutes only if olympiacos and Panathinaikos win with more than 20 points.
Giannis said that he will play for National Team until 40 for winning a medal🇬🇷🏆
The Greek reporter you asked the opinion of, is COMPLETELY infamous and seriously I never seen any article of his on a major news media !!! What is his Qualification to be commenting ? Sorry, but I cannot trust his opinion more than ANY simple spectator watching basketball. That being said, he said that Antetokounmpo is NOT a product of the greek basketball process?? WTF this guy says? Have you seen a lot of players in the NBA, who are playing FIRST for the team and afterwards for themselves? Who taught Yannis that passing, defense, playing with a certain system (using your brains!), taking advantage of the mismatches in offence, be humble, make all players around you feel important and involved in the game and so on.... Yes, Greek basketball at a NATIONAL LEVEL has declined ! AGREED ! But the GREEK style of basketball and what it teaches to the kids is NOT a FAILURE my friends or not declining!! At a National Level, what matters is the TALENT of the players and then comes the tactics, coaching etc etc... So yes, the Greek system does NOT focus on shooting, technique, athleticism etc etc... BUT it can take a team with AVERAGE TALENT and make it a EUROLEAGUE Final 4 team !! See Olympiakos, see Panathinaikos which in ONE year only came from 15th to NOW being 3rd !!! This is the GREEK basketball school of thought and in my opinion is a GOOD one. The fact that we failed in getting medals has to do with other factors, like the Greek politics , the choice of coaches before Itoudis and now Spanoulis. Did this journalist tell you that our previous president of Greek basketball said "The National Team does not need a coach to succeed !!!" .. WHAAAAAT??? How can ANY team play/win without a good coach! This OLD man was appointing coaches of LOW level, just for himself to be in the spotlight and no coach to steal his glory... Come on !! This is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH !!! Since this situation changed my friend, we did not have Yannis playing for Greece and even Sloukas retired... Give Spanoulis the time to coach the Greek team and Yannis to come and play and we see about the decline....
I would love to see a series of videos about the basketball culture of the different European countries.
The problem is we have no players that wanna stand out of the bunch. We have no stars and mainly no players with cojones like VSpan or Nikos Zisis or Papaloukas.
Nowadays is like everyone is a role player BUT also everyone has the same role or wants the same role.
We don't have strong centers, we don't have a stable playmaker either.
And there lies the last problem.
WE DON'T HAVE PLAYERS THAT ARE LOYAL TO THE NATIONAL TEAM.
First of all I consider being in the Final 4 a great success, so Olympiakos not winning the Euroleague since 2013 is not as disastrous as you make it sound considering all those appearances in recent Final 4s. However, this does not reflect the state of greek basketball in general. Society has changed and sports follow. Kids don't play sports as much as they used to and when they do the mentality in the academies is to train winners, not complete basketball players, focusing on tactics and giving fewer and fewer chances to younger players. As far as national team goes, having Giannis does some damage, as everyone expects Greece to win medals when the rest of the roster is nowhere near as good as it used to be, creating expectations where they shouldn't be and not giving the team a chance to build something that might require time. However, I am optimistic that the following generations, inspired by Giannis, Spanoulis, Diamantidis etc will produce higher quality players.
1) Greece competed in Olympics 4 times and placed 5th 3 times.
2) In the 1990s Greece had great teams and lost in details even in post Galis era
1991 - Eurobasket final four
1993 - eurobasket final four
1994 - world cup - final four
1995 - eurobasket final four
1996 - Olympics - 5th
1997 - eurobasket final four
1998 - world Cup - final four (semi final lost in Overtime (OT) to Yugoslavia after being leading in overtime and losing lead due to mistakes)
i can also confirm the current status, but i am optimistic that a new flare will ignite new talent inrush in the future.
I’m Greek but I have to say that the Greek Basketball died decades ago because before Olympiacos and Panathinaikos started dominating the Greek Basketball, PAOK and Aris were The Giants of Greek Basketball and the 2 Thessalonikian clubs had a lot of debt they are still in dept.Its sad to see because PAOK and Aris brought Basketball to Greece and in my opinion the only way for PAOK and Aris get back on top is for investors to buy these clubs and put money in.
The last decade a lot of people they don’t go to the stadium because these is no competition.
Greece went gold 1987, silver 1989 and gad great teams all through the nineties with 3,4 times coming 4th ir 5th on the world. And even though those teams underperformed according to the talent and llayers and then came the 2005 and later period but all through the 20 years there were great players.
Can't agree more. there is a huge downfall, the previous summer Bartzokas talked out about the less and less young Greek players, lacking quality, not working hard enough and the difficulty of the clubs to invest in them. The Greek basketball basis is great but young people are so much focused on tablets, phones, computers etc, working less and less on the sports and also there is a society problem, our nation became of tops in world in fast foods and weight problem, so yes, it s obvious why there is a big downfall
just to add a comment to.the tactics level though. i have been playing basketball from my 12s now i am 40. all the greek coaches without exception believe at the power of the system and the tactics followed both on defense and offense. not particular attention to the shoots or free throws or even rebounds. this was the rule back in 90s. now the game has gone physical. shooting, rebounds, power, speed and stamina are far more essential than a nice well planned system in defense or in offense. greek basket school of thought has not realised that yet.thats why we still do not have not even one classical shooter in our team and we are by far the worst in shooting in each big tournament. the percentage even in free throws is a disaster, not to mention the fact that the greek national team is always a slow team as it it based on the system and not in physicality. thats why we like defense and we always had a problem in offense, despite offense has become a simpler hypothesis
The main factor for the current situation the last 10 years are; finance and structural corruption, consequently followed by non-productive investments in team rosters aiming at foreign players reselling abroad, lack of development strategy resulting in unattended/unguided coaches in practically all youth teams unde 17y.o, suspiciousness, to say the least, for everything not derived from similar minded staff in every administrative level. Apart all these Greek basket ball retains the ability to return, but after 3-5 years in national level, Euroleague is another story it is show-biz and sooner or later it' ll become like a bad NBA copy, no matter if it's more competitive.
Spiros Veliniatis discovered Giannis and created the conditions for him to thrive. The Bucks drafted him from Filathlitikos directly so he was already a huge prospect. Giannis didnt make it on his own. Spiros saw the future just by watching Giannis play hide and seek, If that man and also Takis Zivas werent there none of the great carrer of Giannis would be posible
ΕΜΜΜΜ οχι... ο γιαννης δεν αναπτυχθηκε καθολου στην ελλαδα ουτε καν στην Α1 δεν επαιξε! Το ταλεντο του ηταν αδιαμφισβητητο και αργα η γρηγορα καποια ομαδα θα τον ανακαλυπτε. Αν δεν ηταν αυτη η σαραγοσα θα ηταν καποια αλλη.
ο γιάννης μας έχει χεσμένους κανονικά δεν ξέρω τι άλλο πρέπει να κάνει για να το καταλάβεις κι αν δεν ήθελε να βοηθήσει τα αδέρφια του που έχουν ανάγκη την εθνική μας για την καριέρα τους το πιο πιθανό ούτε που θα ξαναπατούσε στην Ελλάδα
The biggest problem here is the economy.
For example look what tentoglou said about his training.
It is very difficult nowadays to produce those stars that we had in the past.
The only team that produces greek kids is paok in football cause they have organized academies at first and second they trust those to play in first team and they have their chance.
1) regional teams went bad 2) players of national team even if good didnt play well together
Unfortunately for us,it's even worse
The fact that if you want too play at a higher level basketball you need to pay heavy doesn’t even get mentioned
Downfall is a harsh word, we can say however that does not meet peoples expectations, especially having an MVP like Giannis in your national team but... we all know Basketball is a TEAM sport.
We could say the Lithuania has a downfall as well since, the last time that Lithuania won a trophy was 2003 (2005 was Greece by the way) and till then.... nothing. Ok, 2013 and 2015 a silver medal but... who really remembers a 3rd contender? Playing respectfully and it is always considered but nothing serious (as Greece more or less). Same goes for other basketball-type countries like Croatia,
For me the main problem is that there are no same-quality players like spanoulis, Diamantidis, Papaloukas etc and the way that Greek league is treating talents by bringing more and more mediocre American or foreign players not letting even some (not many though) good talents to develop. You can see decent good players like Rogkavopoulos are not getting the recognition and the space to be developed, since main Greek teams (mainly pao and oly) are bringing foreign players
The main issues come down to player development. The more players with right skills and physical attributes the bigger pool of players. Its simple arithmetics.
The reasons for having no player development comes down to lack of funding, corruption, mismanagement and lack of credible leadership. Liolios is on the clock.
The rest is easily fixed once you solve that one main problem
as a greek i can tell that all the three reasons you said are right. but the main problem in our country will always be the brain wash in really young ages. every father thinks he posseses the next galis,diamantidis or spanoulis and when the time comes for the youngsters to step up the pressure is unbearable. we destroy our prodiges in both basketball and football cause we cant provide them a safe built. If you see in other sports our athletes conquer the world look miltos tedoglou or lefteris petrounias or katerina stefanidi for example, those guys thankfully are not part of the toxic greek enviroment so they thrive !!! For all greeks reading my comment please dont be like our fathers when it goes to this !!!!
They are just in a cycle similar to where they have been around mid 90s with too few great talents coming up.
at 7.13 Peja is the one making the pass not the one that dunks :)
Mostly agree but a key point is missed. In the development leagues, nepotism is rampant. If you're not the coach's kid or a family friend, you're not getting any significant playing time. This means that you don't get chances to prove your metal and that you don't get scouted for the young national teams. That's the real problem
Your romanian viewers, including me, are waiting for a mention of U BT Cluj, now that we are in the quarter finals eurocup clubs know about us.
Its not the lack of resources, but the allocation of the existing ones. It is unacceptable for teams in the greek league to have half a roster of american players. The federation needs to limit the number of non greek players to 2 on each team, with the exception of Euroleague participants. This will firce the clubs to invest in developing domesticated talent.
A huge problem is lack of players. We just don't get the players other nations have. And the ones who show some promise at a young age, like Mantzoukas, end up as benchwarmers at the top teams, instead of getting experience and playing time at a smaller club.
It's very charachteristic to say that around 10 years ago, we had an under 18 team that was sweeping medals. That team had Charalampopoulos who looked like the next star, alongside Papagiannis, Lountzis, Flionis, Skoulidas and Dorsey. Of those players, none of them ever reached any notable heights, some due to injuries, some due to bad work ethic, some just didn't have the talent. Charalampopoulos had a lot of injuries that derailed his career.
Papagiannis is 2.20 meters tall yet he can't play with his back to the basket.
Skoulidas dissapeared some years ago.
Lountzis does benchwarming duties for Olympiacos.
Flionis never developed into anything more than a starter for the lower tier Greek league teams.
Another huge problem is our shooting. In an era of basketball where shooting is more important than ever, you will hardly ever see the Greek team shoot better than 30-35%. And that doesn't fly against great shooting teams like Latvia, Lithuania, Germany or Serbia.
Literally two weeks ago we played the Czech Republic, and though we beat them, we shot around 16% from three.
That also makes the situation terrible for Giannis Antetokounmpo, because it's well known that he operates best with good shooters around him. Defending him is much easier when the opposing defenders can drop into the paint, knowing that the Greeks will brick their relatively unguarded shots.
Antentokounmpo is himself part of the Brickers so defending him and bashing the others is hilarious
@@user-vw1vf5cw7d you don't expect everyone on the roster to be great at shooting, least of all your big men, like Giannis. But your guards and your wings, you expect them to be good at shooting.
The shooting with this team is so bad, that Giannis is actually not a bad shooter compared to his teammates.
the problem is the aproach of the National basketball federation ...85% .... Greece had almost top and full roster 2 years ago and yet the fail came from those handlings not the players ... Fun fact there weas a moment that Spanoulis and "rookie" Giannis played together in Greek NT
Good try to analyse the situation
There is talent but a Greek league of 7 foreign players will not lead nowhere
Financial crisis was a problem for professional teams in my opinion but not for national team
5 teams in Greece could play in Euroleague Aris Paok Aek Panathinaikos and Olympiakos but euroleague has a fucking system that reduced the interest of Basket and investors
Aris has the most basketball fans, many years has more tickets than olympiakos and panathinaikos and it is no way to play in Euroleague so attracts fake investors
From 1987 till 2001 in Greece basket was more popular than soccer just to correct you and the Greek league for 10 years at least was stronger than Euroleague and the tv contracts for Greek teams were bigger than all other Euroleague teams combined
With closed Euroleague no one will invest in Greek league
A very rich basketball fan of Aris wanted to become owner and he was waiting the unification of basketball so Euroleague will open for more teams that didn’t happen so he said that he is not interested at all
These happened to Paok Aek Iraklis etc
Look at the football league where panathinaikos and olympiakos are in many cases below AEK PAOK and ARIS but football is an open European project
I believe there is the same problem in Lithuanian basketball clubs
Big countries where excluded from Euroleague in the past
Italy France Croatia Slovenia Russia one team
Sorry Euroleague for many years is a circus and very weak that’s sad
Euroleague of 80s generate more money for the teams with basic organisation
Aris when playing in Euroleague of 8 teams was generating 2 billion drachmas that means 22 million dollars!!!! For 80s!!! For 22- 24 games maximum
As fan of Aris I am really mad with Euroleague I do not watch not a game the last 10 years from the last time that Aris participated 😂
It’s impossible the team that was the first professional basketball team in Greece and formed the national team of 1987 to be excluded from Euroleague 😡😡😡
It’s impossible a basketball city like Thessaloniki not to be able to participate
One note here Makedonikos didn’t dissolve its one of the oldest Thessaloniki teams just they are playing somewhere in 5th division 😅
Now for our national team things are really bad I do not see any future and that’s bad
Greece needs few national successes to generate players and interest
I could say that Greek basketball has collapsed that’s a pity
We hope that spanoulis will recover the team
Greece could have success only through strategy talent is the lowest from 1985 that I remember my self to watch basketball 🏀
The only true basketball capital that Greece is top now is coaching
Future will show
We don’t have the system to build high-quality players outside of Athens. If you want to play you got to pay
Vezenkov even though doesnt play for Greece due to parents. Is completely product of Greek basketball system. So there was development of some players.
Basically most success was during 90s and yugoslav wars when a lot of yugoslav talent went to greece such as peja and tarlac
It starts from clubs to trust players
Regarding the Greek National Team, a medal in a competition is only a matter of a succesfull integration of Giannis to basket outside NBA. In my opinion, Giannis should act as a PF or a Center when playing for Greek National Team. Defences are so much harder outside NBA, thus he cannot be Antetokounmpo we enjoy in the Bucks. He needs to adjust. Surely this generation does not have any Spanoulis, Diamantidis or Papaloukas, but how much better where those Germans next to Nowitzki in 2005, compared to the modern Greek players? To conclude, in coach Spanoulis we hope...
Everything has its ups and downs, it is just that kind of thing for Greece. I am not saying the other factors are not playing their role, Greek basketball has a lot of problems, but, in the end, you cannot always be on top, or in the bottom. Look at how teams like Germany or Slovenia are in the top of the picture now and how teams like Greece or Croatia are not. Things will turn around eventually.
there are many reasons behind basketball downfall in Greece. in my opinion the main reason is that only Olympiacos and Panathinaikos are getting to play in Euroleague, so other teams are not appealing for investors. also the fact that everybody knows from the start that only those 2 teams will fight for championship makes fans uninterested, so the stadiums aren't filled with supporters. the gap between Olympiacos and Panathinaikos and the rest teams is so big, that makes everybody stay away form watching the Greek league