Thoughts on Save TF2
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- čas přidán 17. 09. 2022
- fempyro filler (interpret that as you may)
Twitch: / zesty_jesus
My Website & TF2 Server: zestyjesus.com/
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Demoknight Video: • TF2: Swords and Shields
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2nd channel: / @zestyalt - Hry
![Upward's Dark Secret [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AoLMismOn_g/mqdefault.jpg)
FYI, I bought the cases and keys via a 3rd party site. Valve didn't see a dime.
who doesn't buy items from a third party site what are you on about
Where do they get the items from?
(I kinda haven’t played in a while and forgot if you actually have to buy all of it from valve at some point)
youre a simp zesty
@@cronchtm4900 valve's in charge of the item servers, all items come from them, and keys can only be bought, so yeah.
@@cronchtm4900 Buying already brought items gives valve less money.
Ofc it originated from valve but the point Is by re-buying these already purchased cases, Zesty isn’t giving them more!
Pyrocynical thumbnail
Fat fetish moment
Real
Are there less bots? Yes, or it at least feels as though. Will we go back to a bot infested game by next year if Valve goes back to silence? Absolutely. Over the past week I’ve felt the increase of bots/cheaters in games, and it’ll continue to increase if Valve stays this course
Tbh, i think amount of cheaters/bots depends on the servers, in my region situation did not change really, bots are about the same, and cheaters even increased in number. They are playing in groups of 6, so its almost impossible to kick them, while they can kick you
honestly I feel like the bots are less malicious now (not spinning, just mic spam and being annoying as hell)
however I have seen a lot more cheaters now than I've ever seen before in 3k hours over 5 years of play
Well doeshotter became kinda retarded
It's this or we never get another game out of them because they're spending all their time fighting hackers. Valve has very little manpower compared to other studios.
Only the US servers have the luxury of less bots meanwhile the rest of the tf2 community outside of US have to suffer bot filled lobbies all the time, I don't think tf2 will ever be saved if tf2 isn't implementing solutions to every server simultaneously, the fact they only worked on the US servers is proof that there are less people working for tf2 to save it and the fact this has gone on for months on since the initiative started it will be highly unlikely that tf2 will be rid if bots ever
I find weird that savetf2 became “lets show our appreciation” when Valve already knows we love this game, they can see that through the crate and key sales. The only thing that will force Valve to address the problems is when tf2 stops pumping them free money.
... which will have one of two effects. 1. Valve actually puts forth the effort to fix the glaring issues or 2. Valve kills TF2.
The more likely option being Valve dropping the game entirely when it no longer makes them money.
Sadly they also use the Workshop as their designers, so they don't make original content for the game. Just reap rewards :( We don't even get the Saxxy's anymore.
Which can lead to them just.
Completely stopping any form of support to the game because it provides no profits.
And people still like playing this game if only the bots weren't there, so makes sense they don't want that either.
I feel like once tf2 stops being profitable they'll just stop touching it altogether (by this I mean no more seasonal cases and seasonal maps cause they already don't touch the game aside slight updates) and maybe shut down the official servers. They clearly don't really care. CS:GO and DOTA 2 make more money and if they're going back to making games I can see a scenario where they just say fuck it.
They'll drop that shit and go back to that new VR porn game or whatever the hell their doing that will never be as successful or have the potential of TF2
Honestly with how much of a meme the “Valve Cycle” has been, and how it’s been a common community meme for upwards of 10-15 years now, it’s honestly surprising and depressing how people so readily fall back into it
Good shit as always Zesty
It's shocking how quickly people set back into it, too. It upsets me as well, because Valve won't change, and expecting them to do so is fruitless, especially NOW in the modern age of videogames and developers....."developers" applied here loosely.
@@ZestyJesus aren't all the valve developers like super busy with VR and that other stuff? I mean, I get it, it's very terrible that valve just left tf2 the way it is, but you can't realky blame them for not wanting to work on a 15 year old game.
Yeah, there are many things they could do and don't do because they don't care, but hating on them this much doesn't really have a point, does it?
I mean, it's usefull for you to release all your stress and feelings, and that's good but getting upset over this isn't good for you or any other tf2 fan either
@@maestrofeli4259 You can't blame McDonalds workers for not wanting to clean the toilets either, but someone has to do it.
This is the same case for Valve and TF2, if people focus too much on the kitchen and being cashier, someone's gonna eventually complain why the toilets are so dirty.
@@greekieshion4501 yeah, but you don't send the chef to clean the toilets. You hire some other guy to clean the toilets.
And valve did just that, except that they only hired one single dude to clean the entire restaurant chain, act as the maintenance guy and give a new coat of paint to each store.
Came for the thumbnail, Came because of the thumbnail
i came
i came
i came
i came
veni, veni, veni
@@KishinAubrey vici?
@@seronymus vicipedia
The most aggressive action Valve has taken in the past four years is when The Crate Depression threatened their bottom line
Scriptless, drunk, fempyro... perfect
crate gambling
@@frinpi7473 crate gaming
Fempyro shouldn't exist
fempyro thermal thruster taunt my beloved
@Jacbequic the Pyro Yes Fempyro
As much as the big kind and wholesome approach was seen as “the high road,” it was soft and easily corruptible at best and click-minded, slightly invasive, and ineffective at worst. Hats off to the one poor part timer stuck with this mess, and to his credit, he’s doing alright. But valve needs to either get to fucking work fixing, or hiring people to fix the game, or just straight up tell us “Yeah we were full of piss, thanks for the money, see ya.” The whole of TF2, is just a starving fish Valve is keeping on the line with whatever crumbs that one poor bastard can give us. If we’re gonna get fucked, they could at least tell us we’re gonna get fucked.
They already told us to "Fuck Off" with the maintenance mode letter. They just phrased it politely. That is what Maintenance Mode means: The bare minimum support required for a commercial product by law. Which is usually zero support.
They don't really have to tell us shit. Let's be real, Valve makes enough bank as is. Expecting any more major updates from them is silly when they've already stopped updating a bunch of their other multiplayer Source games. Lest we forget Day Of Defeat Source or CSS.
No they don’t HAVE to tell us anything, you’re absolutely right. But seeing as they’ll go out of their way to make vague comments on Twitter and continue to make money off this dying game, the least they could do is outright tell us “Yeah we’re done.” Instead of stringing us along. They’re still making money off of a product we are spending money on, and to either maintain it properly, ie: fixing the ongoing issues, or at least be open that they’re leaving it to rot permanently, is not asking much seeing as they’re making more money off this game than most of us will see in a lifetime. Again, you’re right. We’re not getting any major content drops, and they are not obligated to communicate, but when they’re still making money off us I’d say it isn’t an unreasonable thing to ask of them, even with their reputation.
even if people like to dislike you, you can tell you genuinely care about tf2 and we all appreciate it
Thanks Zesty
Why is it so people dislike him? (Just found out about the channel)
Is he the type of guy who speaks the truth that people do not like?
@@Aakirro He can't take what he dishes out.
Ignore what @Venus is saying, Zesty can be pretty abrasive, extreme at times, and he has some unpopular takes related to TF2
Some in the community think he's transphobic as-well
A majority of TF2 content creators will try to please the masses by being friendly our relate to trends (i.e. Soundsmith and such), however Zesty would rather be more aggressive (sometimes brash even) in his approach towards content. Rude or not, at least he is honest with his opinions and frankly I appreciate his presence. A means of balance by some degree.
I mean... the bots are rarer now! Thats an objective improvement. Too bad thats all thats changed aside from bug fixes.
It’s not enough, and we shouldn’t let valve think it’s enough
@@Small_child_punter True, but they aint gon do nothing unless we do another SaveTF2, which I highly doubt.
@@kyperactive savetf2 was the easy way. Another one would have to be the hard way. Which granted is a much harder sell.
It’s a matter of how much this game truly means to people.
@@Small_child_punter for me, Savetf2 should be done every 2 months.
@@drivanradosivic1357 it would inevitably mean less and less every time
I think a soft approach was taken with #savetf2 because there was a huge worry that people would act agressively. Creators are scared to tell their audience to show fustration, because they'll be held responsible, and it'll just make us look bad. There was a huge emphasis on doing it "peacefully", perhaps too much.
I agree that the game will probably be neglected again. Although when people start getting frustrated, if #savetf2 is organised again, the first thing on everyone's mind will be "it worked last time". Even if only a little, it has proven that Valve can be pressured into doing stuff. And who knows what scale it could happen at next time.
People were afraid that if we attack them too hard they would just punish us by taking what we do have away from us. We did see some responses from valve employees where they were getting upset at people who were criticizing them more aggressively it seemed. They have us whipped.
@@phoebe5 Huh,uh... well- no that's not why #SafeTF2 was so soft towards Valve.
It is actually because we didn't want to look like selfish assholes who don't think about how much time Valves spents.
It is honestly a damn shame how save tf2 "worked".
There's been a definite increase in Valve investment, and honestly going from effectively-none to almost-any is progress that cannot be denied for a 15 year old game. I've noticed far less bots in casual, having years old bugs fixed is nice, but it's so bittersweet. I just hope maybe next summer there's at least something. Even if that something is cutting us "free" by opening up the drop system somehow.
not valve, some guy on a contract
but i dont expect them to work on a major update ever again, just to fix the fuckin’ bots
@@ROLVe valve is paying the guy are they not
@@ROLVe same, what I mean is just like make every single crate have a small chance to drop, bring back Mann co crates and past years seasonal crates, make it so anything before the jungle inferno update is no longer practically unobtainable without a solid fortune to your name
I hope the fans make a good tf2 mod and sets a standard. tf2 on source 2 project is made in s&box and it's pretty cool
A year later nothing changed and Zesty Jesus was right.
Now another #Savetf2 is happening again lol.
i honestly dont think its gonna work tho. when savetf2 happened again at first i was like YO ITS HAPPENING Then over time i just gave up and sayed frick it valve dont care
TF2 needs a dedicated team behind it that can handle new content, updates, fixes and everything else a game needs to remain relevant.
I don't trust in Valve to do that, so I've sold the majority of my TF2 inventory and got myself an Index and have pre-ordered the Deck with that money instead, still kept a few items that mean a lot to me and I still enjoy the game, but I'm not confident in it's longevity anymore, certainly not enough to leave that kinda money on the table.
To be fair, "having a dedicated team" is antithetical to the very design of Valve themselves; Valve's core ideal is "we don't FORCE you to work on certain products, you work on whatever of our projects you wanna work on". Yeah, it's nice for the programmers to have that freedom, but not necessarily to smaller or less important projects that dont get the love they deserve.
@@MindOfGenius "To be fair" it is still unfair, it doesn't matter if it is antithetical to the very design of Valve themselves, their ideals, or their way of doing things. If THIS is the results it will bring, fuck them and all of that, its not fair and it hasn't been for years. They need to make some moves or become another company people know to stay away from like many of the other big companies people love to hate on. Valve is approaching their downfall with this mentality, it is a matter of when the community fizzles out at this point, it is by the miracle that is the community that Valve isn't already screwed in any future endeavors.
@@MindOfGeniusits a year late but I don’t care. I don’t care that having actual development teams and deadlines or project leads would be antithetical to the old Valve because guess what? The old way allows Valve to do fuck all. They do whatever they want now and that includes not making single player games or hell, games in general.
Half Life Alyx SHOULD have been a wake up call to everyone. Why? because it wasnt developed the “old Valve” way, it was made with those “evil” deadlines and Project lead and a freaking plan and you know what? It. worked.
If Valve didnt have Steam pumping them full of stupid amounts of money, Valve would have had to change years ago. I am so very sick of people giving Valve a pass for shit that if any Console manufacturer or EA or Nintendo did, people would be screaming and calling for their heads.
I think the point of the SaveTF2 being "huggy" and nice was to not attack Valve.
Yeah, the problems need to be talked about for sure. I agree with that. However starting with the peaceful approach was definitely the way to go.
I never agreed with those that went to the offices in person. That was imo not okay.
At the end of the day, Valve needs to change.
Savetf2 was the nice way. It had some success but it’s proving to not be exactly enough. Next time, we’ll know to try it the hard way.
Why is the act of going to a place not okay?
Going a place shouldn't inherently mean danger rather it should be a sign of devotion.
Peaceful protests often require going to a place of importance.
That is the wrong opinion
Standing in front of a building is hardly hurting anyone
@@Small_child_punter the fuck do you mean "the hard way"
just goes to show the power of friendship means nothing and that violence should always be the answer 👍
#savezesty from this crate gambling
I don't know why he's such an enemy he's just very truthful
Loud guy with louder reactions, makes him a pretty big target for tf2 4chan. Twitter of course is obsessed with something that might not have happened, and reddit is reddit
Zesty is very aggressive with his opinions and people don’t like aggressive. They want soft, non confrontational majority opinion.
twitter people need a villain to root against.
@@Small_child_punter I mean... if you wanna go there, he tends to majorly overreact sometimes, so there's that. But thats pretty minor really.
Because people don't like to hear the truth.
I'll be honest, I feel like I've come to terms that we'll be stuck here forever.
I haven't played TF2 in 5 years yet i love when this man talks about it.
Play it tonight
@@seronymus Im good bro, thanks
Same man, I played it like 4 years ago (It was just after Jungle Inferno, so I experienced the new Pyro items), but haven't done much since, not really interested in it game wise (Though I love the universe, the characters and actions are hilarious to read and thing about), though I'll gladly sit down and watch/listen (sometimes while doing College work) to Zesty talk about TF2.
TF2 has good community servers without bots. You have been missing out.
@@highmedic2351 last time i played on a community server i was called the n word multiple times.
It was kinda funny ngl, but i'll pass on that.
I haven't seen nearly as many bots lately and have been enjoying a lot of games. I'd say it was a success
Can't wait for this year's Scream Fortress
More contracts.
I've seen a lot of Vinesauce bots lately in LA. I hope there's an update soon to throw another spanner in the works for bot hosters at minimum, or better yet some sort of actual solution to at least some aspect of the issue
I hope it wouldn't be like our dark times ever again
I have not seen a single bot since I started playing a week ago again
Scream Fortress is my single favourite time to play TF2 during the year
I didn't say anything at the time because it seemed like pissing in the ocean but celebrating a tweet was such a crashing realization that nothing was going to change. It's basically up to the community as far as I see it. Best case senario valve hires a team of modders like the TFC or TFS2 after they make a more fleshed out product. Worst case senario is we finally get the halloween/smissmas update that intentionally or unitentionally kills the game.
Scream Fortress.. KILLING THE GAME?! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Yes, their motives are entirely profit driven. The only outreach or maintenance they do is to placate the mob so that people keep spending money on the game. They don't assign developers to the game because it would essentially cost more to pay a handful of full time employees to work on the game than they generate through selling weapon skins, cosmetics, and taunts. The people who really care about this game allocate the money they would have spent on in-game-items to support those hosting public servers instead. If, and until, a sizable amount of players use and donate money they would have otherwise used on skins to community servers, valve isn't gonna do shit. You either run the risk of valve showing their true colors saying "fuck it" and entirely nuking the ecosystem solely because the game doesn't generate them enough income anymore OR they turn it around and attempt to incentivize players back to the valve ecosystem with meaningful developments in the games code and VAC security. Essentially, you're just playing chicken with valve at this point. I don't really know what I want personally, but I do end up playing on community servers most of the time when I do play but I really miss the, well, "casual" element of valve casual servers. In the end, if valve wants to shut it down, I think it's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
watching this almost a year later rings so true. they haven't really done, much. the only big thing they've done recently is the addition of vscript vsh but that's about it.
After a WEEK the new maps fell off the face of the planet
@@marxxplaysgamesis that lotte?
I don't wanna know the context for your profile picture
Imagine if any other modern game company could only dedicate one temporary worker to one of their major projects and the fans get ecstatic.
People don't like Zesty because he tells the truth, no sugarcoating at all. Keep it up, man.
Most people agree with the points Zesty makes. They don't like Zesty, and honestly for valid reasons
Kinda funny how people hate this guy, they hate em' cause he's real. Doesn't hide behind a fake personality, doesn't really care.
Now that's human.
no i think people hate him cause his opinions are terrible.
also hes transphobic
@@squip9260 someone really doesnt like facts lol
@@PandoPon 🤓
@@squip9260 me when i read your comment
czcams.com/video/nPe_MEnaVs4/video.html&ab_channel=Marcawesomo
*Dies of cringe.
I know that this is the type of this video goes,but i could imagine how frustrated Zesty on the unboxing clip by getting like 5 Skullcracked warpaint lmao
This was a deep honest video and you're right, Zesty. The hugbox effect, how people acted around the campaign, was of course inherently tied to social media behavior. Gabe Newell himself said Valve is focused on profit, and there is money in TF2 but their investors don't think more than half of minimum effort is worth it. We can pray for the best and maybe there is a third party dev opportunity or something to help. Maybe this Scream Fortress will be big. I just know that people whether on Twitter or Valve tend to self-interest, and love is precious but rarely pushes the bill. We'll see.
Valve do not have investors, they are a fully private company, the only people they are beholden to are themselves and their fans.
TF2 is one of Valves smallest money makers, it makes millions yes, but compared to steam, CSGO, and Dota 2 TF2 makes a very small amount, the only other current project I can think of that makes Valve less money is the steam deck, but the deck isn't about the money, if it was Valve wouldn't sell at such a low price, even Gabe newell said that the price point was hard to hit on the deck
so out of all of Valves real money makers TF2 is the smallest, so of course it will get the shaft from Valve
Thank you for making this. You're seriously the only guy that covers tf2 in this way. It really does feels like we're in that place again where Valve goes radio silent and it giving me a small sad that with time will become the big sad.
You know dude, even if I generally dislike your personality, I can't deny the rather poignant commentry on the game, whether it be about workshop submissions or the game's state as a whole. Good video my guy.
I feel you on all of this man. It's good to know I'm not the only one who notices the degenerative hugbox a lot of "communities" turn into. I feel like there's a stark difference between communities that are naturally formed around something and communities that exist for the sake of existing
My own thoughts on saveTF2 are quite similar, when I first saw the campaign I knew it would accomplish little but chose not to say anything at the time because I knew trying to convince anyone otherwise was a fool's errand and it would be better to just see how things played out. The issue with the hugbox "we love TF2" approach is that it then becomes difficult to be critical of valve and TF2, and moreover the community when needed. The issue that a lot of people forget is that there was a time that Valve were prepared to hand over TF2's development to the community, however those involved handled it so poorly and were so corrupt that it scuttled any chance of it happening and convinced Valve that the community couldn't be trusted. It's ironic that the saveTF2 movement ended up pretty much turning out the same way, with what started as an earnest attempt to get Valve's attention and to invoke positive change ended up falling into a competition over self promotion.
The issue is when you "love the game" so much, it means that you're effectively easy to buy off. SaveTF2 needed to take a harder approach and make it clear that sorting the bot problem would be step one and not the end goal. The issue is when you have a community of fanatics, the community is easy to buy off. Valve knew that they only had to do the bare minimum to get the community off their back. I've also generally had a problem when TFtubers act as community spokespeople, especially since I feel very few of them have similar opinions to me and have a tendency to be self interested, passing off what they feel as the community's opinion. Part of this issue is that there are no major TFtubers that have been playing this game for a significantly long amount of time, most seem to have only started around 2014-2015 which is a time when Valve were starting to shift development away from TF2. Hence a lot of them seem to have low standards for how much active development TF2 should receive since what they regard as TF2's "golden age" (when they started playing) was already a time when TF2 was seeing less development than it had previously.
What is likely the only thing that will actually have an effect would be a well organized boycott of any TF2 microtransactions/community market sales. If Valve saw a significant dip here they would actually be responsive and realise the community would not be so easily bought off. It's a matter of actually hitting them where it hurts, even if it means disadvantaging ourselves in order to do so, however I feel many would not be willing to actually make this sacrifice.
One thing that was sort of weird and dark about the whole "movement" was that somehow complaining about Valve eclipsed a literal school s h o o t i n g for #1 trending on Twitter for hours. Like, I know that half or more of Twitter doesn't live in the US where it was the #1 story for a week, and therefore that event wouldn't have been relevant to them - but seriously, that's messed up. One, that the grandstanding got that out of control, and two, that Valve didn't even notice or care. My previous comment got deleted because apparently you're not allowed to put the words "school" and "s h o o t i n g" together with no spaces. Yet they can't seem to get rid of comment bots...
Handing off the game to third party they can outsource the development is an interesting idea.
Maybe more Dev teams can outsource certain aspects of their games and publishers can outsource some games they own to different teams to make different kinds of games for an IP, like Ensemble Studios making Halo Wars.
Handing the game over to the team that made tf2 classic is probably the best possible scenario
@@wafflecopter9296 Bro those people won't be able to handle such responsibility and will fk it up somewhere
@@wafflecopter9296 There's a reason I play TF2 and not TF2Classic. This means that if my options became "play TF2Classic or play TF2Classic" it would mean I would not play either.
@@Tiftid I just want to see the game in the hands of the people that care about it. I'm 100% sure valve would let it die the moment people stopped spending money on it
My favorite Valve fact is probably that they offer you an insane severance package to never talk about your time at valve and the one person ever to not take it talked TONS of shit as soon as she was out
context?
Honestly, what's been saving the game for me is tf2 classic. Pretty nice mod!
You didn’t even try with that thumbnail 😂
Tfw no fempyro mommy gf
@@seronymus feels bad man
@@vivelespatat2670you could have saved France :(((
oh, we tried
I’m sorry but why do people not like Zesty? He’s 100% right with this and he seems like a realist.
You can use a word and not be racist. Just saying.
In my opinion, the word "Community" shouldn't ever be used to describe a group of people online. A community is something much more serious and real: it's a people with a genuine connection in a distinct place. Your community is your neighborhood, your local church, your village, your town, your precinct... Not a group of disconnected individuals on the internet that like the same piece of media. An online "community" is no replacement for a real life community.
Agreed
I will be quite honest with y’all. I don’t expect Valve will ever come back to the game fully. And at the same time, I do not feel like we are entitled to something like more content at this point. We just aren’t. The game is 15 years old, aside from the bots the game is in an alright state, I could see them just call it here. But my issue with Valve is that they aren’t calling it. They have left themselves in development limbo for over half a decade, not adding much of anything to the game, but still not committing to a public statement along the lines of “don’t expect much from now on.” If they just straight up announced the end of large balance patches and content additions in 2016, I wouldn’t even be mad at them. But they just keep lying to themselves that they aren’t done with tf2 yet. So to Valve I’d say pull the plug. Rip off the bandaid. Just mann up and announce the indefinite suspension of updates to tf2. Save us all the time and heartache.
bro, I'll be honest, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but we (or me at least) simply dont care when you don't post a video for 6, 12 or whatever many months, like yeah, your edited videos are fun, but its not like we are checking your channel every single day to see if there is a new video. CZcams on the other hand isnt so forgiving with long periods but that you probably know more than me
That’s what he doesn’t appear to grasp. He puts so much pressure on himself put to everything he can into this video.
Out of all he said, You only answer that?
@@jackoxy9860 cause thats the only thing I think I have something to add to, I don't need to fill any quota
Why does pyro have booba?
Furries
Why not
Zesty feels like a realistic 'glass half empty' kinda guy in an environment of content creators in the TF2 sphere who are 'glass half full' people.
#SpeakupValve This is a hashtag that is not exclusive to tf2, nor its reasoning nor his effects, we want valve to speak on what they're working and what they are doing to do such things.
This is good and bad, the reasoning behind this hashtag is bad, no consumer should need to tell to the company they're consuming, that they should speak more. But it is needed right now to break that spirit of valve not speaking with the community.
“Thoughts on #savetf2” with the pyro’s fat jugs on the table fsr
I recall this video being longer
Did you cut some parts? Why?
It doesn't matter to me by much
But I'm curious!
Im a crab on a stone
TF2 turned from happy memories full of optimism for the next big thing to a depressing descent, to be completely honest I have no hope for the game anymore, but I'll be by its deathbed when the time comes
Never realized it being hugbox-y until you pointed out. I get it's hard to be positive given the only consistent thing for years was neglect. I haven't had a whole lot of bots appear like they used to but like others said and you said, they'll be back sooner than later. Maybe we'll get another trickle for scream fortress and smissmiss, but I'm expecting those to be the same as they have been for years
You know, as much as I enjoy your edited videos, I really do love these unscripted, in this case chemically augmented, late night in a discord chat with friends vibe. I'd definitely like to see more off the cuff discussions like this
One of my friends said I was "ungrateful" because I was unmoved by valve making updates. My exact response was, "When you do something that you're supposed to do, like go to the bathroom, does anybody thank you?"
I'm not gonna stop giving Valve the squint-eye until they actually care.
Have barely seen any bots in casual nowadays, so i’m quite happy
It’s something but the problem isn’t gone. We’re still dealing with a tremendous lack of developer support.
@@Small_child_punter that i 100% agree with, but the game now being playable, as sad as it may sound, is a big step forward.
@@mmmapplesauce1673 I’m don’t mean to sound like a pessimist. Less bots isn’t a big step forward, it’s A step forward.
I did not know there was a discord but after hearing about your experience with it I’m kind of glad I didnt
Sounded like you were about to cry near the end, I agree with your points.
I think the last time someone cared about tf2 in valve was when the community bullied that brony who said "neato" and then jungle inferno wasn't good enough. Jill was probably the last person who cared about it.
To be perfectly honest, if the issue that SaveTF2 was attempting to solve was the bot crisis, and that's largely been fixed to the point where Casual is almost, or completely free of bots in some areas, on top of years long standing bug fixes, then I seriously don't see the problem. The point was never to get content updates or balance changes as much as we want them, the game was so unplayable that community servers were the only reprieve, now that's just not the case anymore. We did it, Reddit.
I can't speak on your issues with the overall community and the numbers game, because that's just not something I have any insight on except for my own, which was complete ambivalence. I seriously did not care if my video on the topic got any views and made me a lot of money, or if my tweet on the topic got any attention, they just both happened to do well because the movement got a lot of eyes on it, which was the entire point. Hopefully everyone else can say the same even if that can't be directly proven because we haven't unlocked mind reading technology yet, but discrediting the entire movement and the people behind because of an "icky vibe" that you can't definitively prove either seems almost petty.
What I can definitely speak on is the people who went to Valve's office, I distinctly remember pretty much no one in the server, myself included, being ok with that and actively discouraging others from doing the same. And to be honest, I doubt it was even the people who went to the office who made a massive difference in putting out the tweet or hiring the contractor. To remain cynical, it's likely because the movement was announced ahead of time, Valve caught onto this, and tweeted out on the same day in order to get a big publicity boost as the topic was trending worldwide, and that seems to have worked.
I honestly just don't really know how much more you wanted out of this, except maybe some action against regular cheaters which are definitely still a problem and one I've had to deal with personally, but it's not like this was going to get out a major update or magically fix the issues with terrible cosmetics (which still happened anyway, at least for one case so far,) so I'm just sort of confused. Don't get me wrong, I'd also love to see some major updates and balance changes, one more Blue Moon would be insane right now, but that was never what any of this was about. TF2 didn't need saving from a lack of updates, it needed saving from people actively trying to ruin it who have since been largely stopped. And you can get defensive about it all you want, but I really think the reason people call you out for being negative all the time is that in this particular instance, you're seeing a problem where there simply isn't one. It's all vibes and feelings instead of being based in any sort of objectivity. The objective truth is, getting Valve's attention seems to have worked, and if one guy is all that was needed to fix the issue, then that's still stupid of Valve for not doing it earlier, but it's resulted in the game being functional, which is all that was asked for. If the bots come back in full force and Valve does nothing, if it turns out all the content creators were just money hungry attention seekers, then I'll eat my words and say you were right all along, but it's not worth making a video like this until that happens. At best, this is an IOU for a later "I told you so," and at worst, this video will age very poorly.
Edit: It took a week. It aged poorly.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about we need to cook
Wow, that's a lotta words
I wasn’t going to chime in seeing as I feel I’ve been somewhat harsh on Zesty lately, but I think this is a good thread to add on.
The idea that SaveTF2 was focused on farming clout and less so about the cause itself is something that I believe is an immensely uncharitable interpretation. Myself, Fish, Elmaxo, TheWhatShow, RichterOvertime (among others) had some of the most successful videos promoting the movement, not once did any of use it as an opportunity to bolster our own standings within the community. Likewise with Twitter, I almost never saw anyone boisterously promoting their own tweets, all of it was referring to the general state of the hashtag on the trending tab, usually popping off about the total number of tweets being made.
I also find the idea that our names being on the SaveTF2 poster was a piece of evidence supporting the clout farm narrative to be, once again, extremely uncharitable. This wasn’t done for promo, it was done because a cabal of creators putting their dicks on the table in support of a movement grants it far more legitimacy. There have been hundreds of reddit comments by billythenonamedipshit75 with statements along the lines of “guys, we need to band together and get valve to listen”, they always fall on deph ears. Why? Because protests require an initial push to get the wheels on the track, something one innocuous guy on the internet can’t accomplish single handedly. A coalition of content creators with a reach spanding into the eight figure range? That’ll do it. If no content creator mentioned that they were bolstering the movement, SaveTF2 would have fallen victim to the same circumstance that every other attempt did.
Making the movement more positivity focused rather than negativity focused was an optics play that needed to happen. It made the movement FAR more palatable. Some people were vitriolic, some people were way more charitable than they had any reason to be, but by and large the public outcry struck a balance of praise towards TF2 as a game, yet didn’t coddle Valve in regards to their current behavior. On the flipside, had we taken the approach of airing out all of our grievances, the propensity for negativity, cynicism, derision and vitriolic behavior would have been amplified immensely, making the movement seem very unappealing to both onlookers vaguely familiar with the ip, and valve themselves. A 36 hour bitchfest on the timeline isn’t something anyone wants to deal with, and while it may be more satisfying from a player’s perspective to vent profusely, it’s the least practical approach we could have ever taken.
To say SaveTF2 didn’t work is to say that the diet of a 350 pound man who wanted to slim down to 160 didn’t work because he only ended up hitting 200. Fair enough, the desired effect in its entirety was not accomplished, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t leagues better off than where we used to be.
@@WeezyTF2 that's alot more words
“Wow, that’s a lotta words.”
Lotta words you didn’t read. 🤨
Love the vid zesty, raw and powerful
If people keep buying keys and tickets, they don't need to fix anything about the game. If everyone stops buying stuff, Valve would say "well, the game's not profitable anymore" and cut off what little support is left.
It's a lose/lose for the players, but as far as Valve is concerned it's free money. They'll ride it out until there's nothing left.
Honestly, if the game got a small Heavy update and a few balance changes along with a "this is the last update, it's been fun" from Valve, I'd be okay with it. It's really just the radio silence that I'm pissed off about. Gabe can say "we have things planned for tf2" all day but it means nothing. I need either specifics about what's being worked on and who's working on it, or I need confirmation that the game is in end of life.
Well this already aged like wine
I had a very real struggle deciding wether to click on the zesty cid or not click on the fempyro thumbnail
I know it's tough man. Keep up the good work. It's encouraging to see someone keeping it real around this 15 year old game. I have faith good things will come
this video definitely had footage cut, I remember there being more frustration displayed towards the movement and its discord, I understand why it got cut if thats the case
I will say I’ve played a bit of the Valve servers recently and not many bots have shown up which is really refreshing.
I do agree that it does feel like we are at the stage of radio silence which may lead to bots coming back and the #SaveTF2: Electric Boogaloo will happen and then the cycle repeats.
I really hope Scream Fortress is actually playable this year.
Also yeah, saveTF2 felt like a reddit tier circlejerk and look what that got us; one singular dev pumping out small bug fixes every month or so.
Always glad to see a video from you Zesty, I feel like you're the grounded force of the TF2 sphere. Videos like this where its off the cuff honest thoughts and opinions really makes me appreciate your content even more.
Down to brass tacks though, I'd like your opinion on a proposed solution I've heard floating around for awhile. Its one I find myself agreeing with more and more every day. Kind of a market shutdown. Everybody continues playing the game as normal. Casual servers, community servers, MvM matches; all that goes on like the bog standard day to day ops. But for a set period of time, be that a day, week, month etc; the entire market just shuts down. No buying/ selling of any TF2 items whatsoever be they cosmetics, weapons, tools, MvM tickets or anything else. But all TF2 community marketplaces would cease buying and selling of TF2 items at the same time.
Trading would continue unimpeded given that no form of monetary curency transfer happens and Valve makes no money off players trading items between themselves. IDK if something like this would cause Valve to hit the player base with an ultimatum and threaten to pull the plug on the servers. But if I've learned anything about these big corporations, the only way to get them to do anything substantial is to impact their bottom line.
If the game stops earning them money, they will pull the plug. Players stop spending money, they won't change, they'll just ax support. It's a good idea if you want THAT to happen.
@@ZestyJesus That's what I'm saying, but no one sides with me. At least I've got you using your brain.
Hey Zesty,where did you get that Fempyro picture?
He probably made the thumbnail himself.
read description
What about you adding cathook code to your HUD?
It really needs a major update, what jungle inferno was the last one? 5years between is too long
*Is 8 shots deep in 4 hours*
I know the courage!
I could go into a long rant about what should be done, but I’ll keep it simple,
1. Either form a 3rd party development team to meet valve in person
2. A team would have to make their own tf2 that doesn’t utilize the IP.
i'd say we need 1, we need a passionate team of devs that truly care about the game. Perhaps Valve needs to hire people from the community that know what the community needs.
@@djtrac3r935 the community is divided and does not know what it wants
@@djtrac3r935 Yeah I don't trust the community anymore
watching this is like i've walked right into the middle some fandom drama after not seeing one of your videos for ages this is really weird
I’m very glad people are starting to talk about the other sides of save tf2 good job
A huge part of it feels like the demand for youtube videos. I felt this when the "big" players started to leave and people clamored against them. They just want something to shovel out like the good old days. You can only talk so much about a weapon when its stats don't change or when *NEW WEAPONS* hint hint come out that you can cross-examine every scenario.
Haha, fempyro thumbnail. I'm such a degenerate.
Thank you for being as honest as always
Hey big zest, I saw your rock collection and I was wondering can you do a mineral review?
To me the biggest problem is valve's free-form development system, for PR or new programmers it sounds like a great idea, but nothing gets done. And in a multi million dollar corporation like Valve that owns a dozen franchises, that is not good. There is no motivation to get anything done because the developers still get their salary regardless. Not even cutting the income from TF2 will do anything because then Valve will have justifiable reasons to stop support entirely; it's not making money", if the money keeps coming then they know people can't let go. There is nothing short of an internal restructuring to make the company more transparent than a brick wall.
Man fuck Valve.
I feel like we see fewer bots because we see more players. What I mean is there are now more people playing the game than before, but there are still the same amount bots hanging around trying to ruin people's games or maybe the bot owners decided to take a break because of the save TF2 movement. Either way, I predict we will soon be stuck with lobbies full of bots again once the bot owners figure out how to make their bots work again.
What is your tipple of choice?
If it isn't Jim Beam I dunno if we can be friends anymore
i see zesty video, i click the hell outta it! and yes the fempyro IS a extra motivator. for real though it's good to be yourself i enjoy the content that you want to make be it tf2 or not, you are funny and informative at times even.
Hey hows that tf2 server doing zesty
If I'm not mistaken, they've actually upped the prices of items in the mann co store recently despite everything going on
I gave up on waiting for something good to happen to the game, im gonna play skyrim with big tiddy mods now
W
5:10 same thought, community, support and other words are so much overused for the purpose of appel
Its telling that the most recent patches biggest impact is to change how cosmetics work to limit options.
TF2 community is just really really REALLY high on copium
Quick question did he get a unusual?
I kinda agree with the whole showing up thing. Samwiz1 (Who is the sit in guy because he lives in Seattle where the valve TF2 headquarters are) and the Spy guy, were respectful, but its not JUST Valve in that building. The spy guy was asked to leave not by Valve but by the building staff because they dont know what the fuck hes dressed as, they don't care about valve, all they know is some guy in a suit and balaclava showed up to their office building and sat there. He could've had a bomb vest for all they knew. It scares people. it would have been one thing if this was an organized event with rules and security set in place with a protest permit for an area near the building. But its another to have basically strangers show up and stalk a building full of more than just Valve employees and basically make them feel unsafe in their own office. This is why it saddens me that people villanize you. Yeah you make hot takes, yeah you can be rash and sometimes are a bit bull headed, but your practical. You look at the bigger picture. You could definitely be a bit more optimistic but that doesn't mean you aren't right about a lot of things
Sucks this game will probably never hit the same strides it did way back when. Tf2 was the forefront of PC gaming, probably the best video game of an era. The reason to why that sucks so much is that Tf2 still has so much to offer. Tf2 has the potential to continue to evolve, innovate, and revolutionize PC gaming. It’s sad to see such a big fish, such a work of art, get swept under the rug
The updates did a lot, I only run into a bot every few games, when before it was unplayable. The problem is mostly fixed (at least from anecdotal experience)
Hey man I agree with everything you said and I knew that the SaveTF2 "movement" was doomed from the start due to the polite approach that the tf2 community had with valve, but was it really necessary to make pyro have massive breasts literally resting on the table as you thumbnail?
Zesty is known for three things:
Being an asshole.
Stirring up drama.
Being horny twenty-four seven.
Definitely necessary
I didn’t know about the people showing up in person and honestly I feel bad for the people working there cause that must be scary
Zesty being the realest guy out here.
It’s honestly depressing just how little valve cares tf2 now, since they become this big, can only hope that the future gets better and something happens. Love your vids my guy ❤❤❤ can’t wait to see your next vid and your next stream for when ever it happens
All those skull patterned war paints to find the necromanced war paint; which looks really sick on the airstrike.
marvellous thumbnail you've got there 😳
Fempyro
No matter how the people feel about you, you’re the best content creator for tf2 right now. You always keep it 100%, tell it how it really is, and people don’t want to hear that.
Tbh i think its best to focus on the many weapon bugs that there in the game before fixing the bots, unless its a server crashing bot we kinda got used to them by this point and their priority is not so high, in my opinion