Hi Olly. Thank you for the comparison between the two “competing” machines. What is needed is for both manufacturers to merge and create a better machine from the two. 👍😀
The manufacturers do seem to very gradually improve the machines. I suppose they don't want to peak too soon! I wonder if there are copyright (or whatever) restrictions on certain features meaning the manufacturer can't make specific, obvious upgrades as it would infringe on the other manufacturers IP?
Really well constructed comparison Olly. I am sure this will be very useful information for many potential purchasers. That upside-down dovetail slide really looks weedy, it's a shame as the column on that thing looks like it's been on steroids. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. The X3 column looks bigger than it is. It's 50% sheet metal as all the electronics are housed in the back. In reality it is a little larger than the VM25 but not by much.
Thanks Kev. I agree. I was trying to decide between the two when I bought mine, and I'm still happy with my choice. It does give me some ideas for improving my mill though!
@@ollysworkshop 👍👍i think like most hobby machines, you have to do your own refinements to make them to suit your needs. all machines are different and all us operators have different needs👍👍
Thanks for that Olly 👍 Either machine would be a step up for me, but on balance I think I'd go with the red one. Not that I'm looking at the minute. Food for thought though 🤔 I reckon some stout flat bar (and perhaps some gap filling metal loaded epoxy) could strengthen those dovetails a bit, and a motor-mod would assist with the Z lift.
I have had both of these mills , the Seig is a step below the Weiss . The PM version of the vm25 is a couple steps above the Weiss machine. The PM line of machines are the better deal.
Hi, thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately we don't have PM available in the UK, I think the closest we have is warco. On paper it's hard to tell the different vendors apart for what looks like essentially the same machine.
Personally, I much prefer the Weiss, so I bought its bigger brother, the belt-drive VM32 and couldn't be happier. Smooth as butter. Yes, the head bolts are still in the same place but the bigger head no doubt makes it a bit easier to get to them.
How would you rate the rigidity and ease of shimming/tramming the column/base between the two? From what i’ve heard they differ in the way the column attaches to the base?
Hi. Regarding the ease of tramming/shimming, the VM25 column is bolted to the back of the table, whereas the X3 is bolted to the top. I'm not sure that makes much difference in terms of how easy it is to do, but I feel that the X3 approach is probably the more rigid. The X3 column is definitely heavier.
Hi olly I have the sx3 for a long time now you don't have to keep change the speed each time if you leave the power on and mine is a cnc machine now which as been working ace for years😊
I think I have a very old control board, it was from a warehouse clearance, so I've no idea how old it is. Mine definitely resets to minimum speed every time, although it looks like the CNC controller I have is able to set the speed itself.
It does seem that way. Base off the VM25 and column and head from the X3, but motor controller a hybrid so you get a sensible twisty knob with the tapping function. Stop giving me ideas!
The X3's weak dovetail design puts me off. If only they fixed that and offered an R8 spindle. The height adjustment wheel with 1mm per rotation is nice.
Thanks for your thoughts. I can see that there are advantages to the fine Z feed, my gripe is just when you need to move it a long way, it is a lot of turns.
I have the X3 with the R8 spindle. I bought it from Grizzly here in the US back when they sold them. I'm really happy with it, too. I've never heard of the dovetail design being a problem in any of the many forums I've visited concerning the machine, and it certainly hasn't been a problem for me in all the years I've used the mill.
Hi Olly, good comparison very well presented. Of all points you made setting the traming and crash resistance look to be the weakest point on your old mill. What is the origin of both machines, where were they designed and made? Have a great weekend.
Hi David. They are both Chinese machines, I think Seig is fully Chinese. Weiss seems to be French owned (sounds more German to me) but the factory is in China. I have ideas for improving my mill, but the list is long and the priority low, a bit like the power feed that I was planning to do back at 11 subscribers!
Hi, thanks for the question. Short version is I'm not getting rid of the VM25. A while ago I bought a CNC lathe 'project' off eBay, and the seller also offered me a pile of CNC mill bits. I ended up with enough bits to build a manual x3 and a CNC X3 (minus a few bits). I plan to sell on the manual x3, and have the CNC X3 in addition to the manual VM25.
Hi Steve. It would definitely benefit from it. I'm not keeping the manual x3, I just put it together from the spare parts I got with the CNC machines. I will have a CNC X3 though, which already has a powered Z axis!
Yes! I removed the cover pretty much straight away because it was getting too hot. The motor lasted maybe 5 years, with lots of tlc. I then upgraded to a 500w BLDC motor which is on it to this day. The original motor was a brushed type, I think all new ones these days are brushless (or should be).
Hi Olly. Thank you for the comparison between the two “competing” machines. What is needed is for both manufacturers to merge and create a better machine from the two. 👍😀
The manufacturers do seem to very gradually improve the machines. I suppose they don't want to peak too soon! I wonder if there are copyright (or whatever) restrictions on certain features meaning the manufacturer can't make specific, obvious upgrades as it would infringe on the other manufacturers IP?
Gday, there’s a lot of good features on both, it’s tempting the make one from two, that would be a great series of videos mate, cheers
Really well constructed comparison Olly. I am sure this will be very useful information for many potential purchasers. That upside-down dovetail slide really looks weedy, it's a shame as the column on that thing looks like it's been on steroids. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. The X3 column looks bigger than it is. It's 50% sheet metal as all the electronics are housed in the back. In reality it is a little larger than the VM25 but not by much.
nice review Olly, It's swings and roundabouts, like most machines👍👍👍👍👍👍
cheers
Kev
Thanks Kev. I agree. I was trying to decide between the two when I bought mine, and I'm still happy with my choice. It does give me some ideas for improving my mill though!
@@ollysworkshop 👍👍i think like most hobby machines, you have to do your own refinements to make them to suit your needs. all machines are different and all us operators have different needs👍👍
Thanks for that Olly 👍
Either machine would be a step up for me, but on balance I think I'd go with the red one. Not that I'm looking at the minute. Food for thought though 🤔
I reckon some stout flat bar (and perhaps some gap filling metal loaded epoxy) could strengthen those dovetails a bit, and a motor-mod would assist with the Z lift.
Hi Matt. There's really not much in it, and none of the issues are unfixable. I'm going to upgrade the CNC X3 just a little!
I have had both of these mills , the Seig is a step below the Weiss . The PM version of the vm25 is a couple steps above the Weiss machine. The PM line of machines are the better deal.
Hi, thanks for your feedback. Unfortunately we don't have PM available in the UK, I think the closest we have is warco. On paper it's hard to tell the different vendors apart for what looks like essentially the same machine.
Personally, I much prefer the Weiss, so I bought its bigger brother, the belt-drive VM32 and couldn't be happier. Smooth as butter. Yes, the head bolts are still in the same place but the bigger head no doubt makes it a bit easier to get to them.
I wish I'd had the money to get the VM32 when I bought mine (I may yet upgrade). The Weiss machines are definitely overall the nicer ones.
I think one day you will take both machines appart and build your dreammachine with the best parts of each one :)
One day..... I've got a lot of "one day" jobs!
How would you rate the rigidity and ease of shimming/tramming the column/base between the two? From what i’ve heard they differ in the way the column attaches to the base?
Hi. Regarding the ease of tramming/shimming, the VM25 column is bolted to the back of the table, whereas the X3 is bolted to the top. I'm not sure that makes much difference in terms of how easy it is to do, but I feel that the X3 approach is probably the more rigid. The X3 column is definitely heavier.
Hi olly I have the sx3 for a long time now you don't have to keep change the speed each time if you leave the power on and mine is a cnc machine now which as been working ace for years😊
I think I have a very old control board, it was from a warehouse clearance, so I've no idea how old it is. Mine definitely resets to minimum speed every time, although it looks like the CNC controller I have is able to set the speed itself.
So Olly, what you're really saying is I should buy one of each and construct a Frankenstein's monster from the two
It does seem that way. Base off the VM25 and column and head from the X3, but motor controller a hybrid so you get a sensible twisty knob with the tapping function. Stop giving me ideas!
@@ollysworkshop 😈
The X3's weak dovetail design puts me off. If only they fixed that and offered an R8 spindle. The height adjustment wheel with 1mm per rotation is nice.
Thanks for your thoughts. I can see that there are advantages to the fine Z feed, my gripe is just when you need to move it a long way, it is a lot of turns.
I have the X3 with the R8 spindle. I bought it from Grizzly here in the US back when they sold them. I'm really happy with it, too. I've never heard of the dovetail design being a problem in any of the many forums I've visited concerning the machine, and it certainly hasn't been a problem for me in all the years I've used the mill.
Hi Olly, good comparison very well presented.
Of all points you made setting the traming and crash resistance look to be the weakest point on your old mill.
What is the origin of both machines, where were they designed and made?
Have a great weekend.
Hi David. They are both Chinese machines, I think Seig is fully Chinese. Weiss seems to be French owned (sounds more German to me) but the factory is in China. I have ideas for improving my mill, but the list is long and the priority low, a bit like the power feed that I was planning to do back at 11 subscribers!
Very interesting. Why have you gone for the SX3 given how similar in capability it is to your existing VM25?
Hi, thanks for the question. Short version is I'm not getting rid of the VM25. A while ago I bought a CNC lathe 'project' off eBay, and the seller also offered me a pile of CNC mill bits. I ended up with enough bits to build a manual x3 and a CNC X3 (minus a few bits). I plan to sell on the manual x3, and have the CNC X3 in addition to the manual VM25.
I see a project ..
Cordless drill power feed for the head on the X3.
Hi Steve. It would definitely benefit from it. I'm not keeping the manual x3, I just put it together from the spare parts I got with the CNC machines. I will have a CNC X3 though, which already has a powered Z axis!
you have the VM 25 for 15 years right?? Did you ever have problems with the board or the motor?
Yes! I removed the cover pretty much straight away because it was getting too hot. The motor lasted maybe 5 years, with lots of tlc. I then upgraded to a 500w BLDC motor which is on it to this day. The original motor was a brushed type, I think all new ones these days are brushless (or should be).
I want your workshop
Thanks. You can't have it 😜