Is it time to bring passenger rail back to Atlanta?
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- To read more on ATL Trains, see www.atltrains.com/ , and see the white paper here: drive.google.com/file/d/1uh-G...
For the written version with sources and citations, read here on Substack: nathandaven.substack.com/p/is...
Social Media
Substack - www.nathandaven.substack.com
Tiktok - / nathandaven
Twitter - / nathandaven
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CZcams - / @nathandaven
Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:24 Atlanta’s tracked riverbed
2:04 The impressive coverage of American passenger rail
2:46 Death of Atlanta’s grandest train stations
3:15 History: Regulation, Cars, and Planes,
4:36 History: Nationalization
5:33 Amtrak Connects US Program and Corridor ID
6:22 ATL Trains: Vision
7:57 ATL Trains: Funding
8:40 Roadblocks and Reality
9:11 Freight Collaboration
10:25 Concluding
Music (sourced from CZcams Creator Music unless otherwise linked)
Dan Henig - Danger Snow
Kevin MacLeod - George Street Shuffle
Anno Domini Beats - Drop
Doug Maxwell_Media Right Productions - Reggae Wah
The Mini Vandals featuring Mamadou Koita and Lasso - La Danse Fetish de Femme
John Patitucci - Lyric Melody for Solo Bass
stay safe (prod. DahJP) - / stay-safe
Goestories - Noir Et Blanc Vie
Anno Domini Beats - Dark Tranquility
SefChol - Raging Streets
Footage Used
"American trains in the late forties" via SuperBostyn - • American trains in the...
"Ford Model T - 100 Years Later" via CarData Video - • Ford Model T - 100 Yea...
"Streamliners" via TheRailFaningBoy - • Streamliners
"Highway Hearing (Part 1)" via Humanoid History - • Highway Hearing (Part 1)
"President Biden signs infrastructure bill" via CNBC - • President Joe Biden si...
Stock Footage
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/drone-fo...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/transpor...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/aerial-f...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/railway-...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/a-railro...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/aerial-v...
Video by Al d'Vilas: www.pexels.com/video/passing-...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/aerial-v...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/aerial-f...
Video by Kelly : www.pexels.com/video/passenge...
Equipment
Camera: Fuji X-E4, iPhone XS
Microphone: MXL 990 (voiceover), Rode Wireless GO, Behringer XM8500 (on camera)
#urbanplanning #train #publictransit - Zábava
Thanks everyone for watching! To read more on ATL Trains, see www.atltrains.com/ , and see the white paper here: drive.google.com/file/d/1uh-G-IGc3rLCm98qPzx9rIRkloyl-aNM/view?usp=sharing
For the written version with sources and citations, read here on Substack: nathandaven.substack.com/p/is-it-time-to-bring-passenger-rail
Climate change will only be fixed when it starts affecting a majority of people's basic needs in the richest countries.
Its frustrating to know that the majority of the problems with rail transit expansion always comes back to the private ownership of our rail network. If only there was a solution..... Also great editing and graphics
*Nationalisation intensifies*
Nationalization Montage
The solution seems simple to me. Just build another track on the ROW to separate the freight traffic from passenger service. Voila!
@davidjackson7281 Why is the US not just capable of regulating these railroads?
@@StefanWithTrains3222Because the lnterstate Commerce Commission was abolished and the railroads were deregulated in the 80s. Railroads have merged from over 20 to just 4 (+2 Canadian) and subsequently they apparently have a lot of political power.
As a guy from Gainesville GA, I’d adore a passenger rail comeback! I’ve always wished MARTA would branch out into regular passenger rail (I.e CalTrain), me and my brother would totally use that for day trips to Atlanta and I bet a lot of other people would too! Atlanta is a nightmare to drive in.
As someone who is extremely familiar with Atlanta from the 70's, 80's 90's and a bit later; Atlanta beyond Fulton & Dekalb Counties did NOT want MARTA mainly due to racial issues from "Atlanta". The burbs didn't want it and they didn't get it and are now stuck without it. The original rail plan for MARTA is also a bit obsolete as most people don't work in downtown Atlanta but mostly in the ring cities, such as Buckhead, Sandy Springs, out to Cobb and over to Gwinnett. Frankly it is too late to fix that problem and expect more freeway improvements and nothing else.
Don't vote for republicans they are the anti rail party of today. Most are anti rail. It's never too late to fix the mistakes of yesterday.
@@kennixox262Nothing has changed. Most of those other counties still have a racist take on MARTA expanding.
@@atlhoe564 yeah that's accurate, as someone living in the suburbs, it'd be so nice get to Atlanta on a passenger rail. But lots of people here are very against any sort of development. Usually bc of traffic. But then when asked about extending the MARTA system they say some racist shit. So it's a catch 22, bc how are you gonna fix traffic without passenger rails? No matter how many lanes we add, traffic is still crazy. Passenger rails are necessary, but I'm not optimistic anything will change.
Most people in the suburbs don’t want stuff like that because of the “undesirables” aka ya know
As a child in the 50s & 60s in Atlanta my family would take the train (The Nancy Hanks) from Atlanta to Savannah, where my grandparents lived, at least once a month. We were on the train for its last trip before service was shut down. There were so few people on the train everyone was required to sit in the dining car.
The old Terminal Station and Union Stations were, in my young eyes, such magical places filled with excitement. I watched with tears in my eyes when then demolished Terminal Station. I still regard that as one of the saddest days for Atlanta.
Wow thank you for sharing! Would have loved to see it all in person
Absolutely! Every summer my family would take my big sister to the station to ride the Nancy Hanks to Savannah. What a foolish, short-sighted waste to tear down a grand station and ignore the very thing that built Atlanta.
I prefer passenger rail if I'm not in a particular hurry to get where I'm going. It's more comfortable than flying, and I don't have to worry about driving. Thanks for posting on this!
Overnight train travel is often better for your time too
With infrastructure and service improvements, hopefully one day it will be viable even if you are in some amount of a hurry!
But your attitude is also part of the reason the USA doesn't have high speed rail. The American public have become complacent and readily accept inferior passenger rail infrastructure. The freight companies are partly to blame and so has been the federal government until recently. The people of the USA have to start DEMANDING modern passenger rail service. The status quo is UNACCEPTABLE!
Most people do not travel far or between major cities. They go to and from those stops in between.
@@intercityrailpal That’s true. Same applies to metros and LRTs: most people aren’t taking Bart from Antioch to SFO, they’re taking a shorter segment of that line. Same with the interstates: you probably won’t take the 5 from San Diego to Seattle, but you probably will take it to LA. But you have the option to if you want or need to. Intercity rail IMO is most effective when it functions similarly, because the more different trips a route is viable for, the more ridership it will get and the more cars it will take off the road.
An exception is Brightline West, but the sheer travel volume on the 15 between LA and Vegas is kind of in a class of its own.
Had my first taste of regional passenger rail when I was up in Naperville. I had TWO rail lines available and connected to downtown developments on the way to Chicago. Each town was active and full of new buildings. Even smaller stations were flanked by shops and new construction. I had the freedom to travel between towns and see different takes on the "small town" experience. It was clear these areas were growing! Even travel times to Chicago was competitive, if not faster than when I drove. There's only positives to effective investment!
The ATLtrains could work if it is clearly labeled and marketed as NOT MARTA. The surrounding counties will never support anything with MARTA's name attached to it. We would need a marketing firm to sell the idea to the Atlanta metro. I personally would love to be able to ride a train from the outer suburbs to Atlanta and the airport. Anytime not spent behind the wheel is a win.
The otp burbs are changing but its a slow change. The racism behind suburban anti marta is so frustrating, because its so engrained. Atl trains using the transit link authority (ATL) could be what gets around this and hopefully improve attitudes across agencies - i know a lot of people who actively use xpress busses for work which is currently operated by the ATL
Love this local reporting! And would love a regional rail system even more
Most people across the county agree. But the highway lobby worked hard to get rid of trains. There was a ticket tax until 1962 and the funds were spend on roads, airports and waterways! Not trains or tracks.
An interresting fact to have in mind is that countries where rail travel are popular today often have a lot of electrified railways!
They are shorter distances so it's more viable and they were not dumb to solely support interstates so it makes sense they would have them. It's hard to do here because of the cost even newer services like Brightline are Diesel-Electric still. Lots of Railroads in the 20th century did not invest anything into passenger rail past the midway point in the century either so it meant 99% of trackage was not electrified.
@@igneousmoth4329That argument is complete BS. The distances in Europe are not any different since many passenger rail routes cross borders between countries. In fact several high speed trains do just that.
The lack of investment happened in the USA because the vast majority of track ROWs in the USA are privately owned by freight railroad companies. That's not the case in many areas of Europe and Asia which is why those countries governments continued to invest in modernizing their passenger rail infrastructure over the years and why the citizens of these countries have the opportunity to enjoy high speed rail infrastructure as a normal way of life. The USA is falling further behind the rest of the world. But we can move a bunch of freight to every corner of the country. However, Europe and Asia can do both extremely well. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
General Motors is still on the boards of railroads. They invested in them to get control. Oil companies were right there too. they have investment in NS and CSX which tells you why there is opposing to passenger rail. GM bailed out (Twice) Government Motors and the American Trucking Association oppose investment in rail @@igneousmoth4329
@@mrxman581 The argument 100% is not bs when London to Berlin is the same distance as NY to Chicago and in Europe there are way more large cities as opposed to smaller ones its obviously easier to build hsr and electrify it. And they move freight mainly by truck as opposed to rail with less to move. The issue was not the fact that the private railroads did not invest the government would have had to have designed a whole new system. The gradients on most railroads when crossing a mountain range are only lessened because they curve and wind up the hills and mountains to get to the crest of it. With HSR you cannot have that much curvature and you need newer designed lines than 1860s trackage to make that happen. Electrifying the Horseshoe Curve wouldn't do anything because it already limits everything up and down to 25 mph. Blame Private companies all you want but it is not their fault for the lack of electric trackage it's the government's fault for prioritizing highways and air travel in the first place and rail would have to make such a leap to get anywhere near those ways of travel for most people moving between those cities now.
I'd love to have this in ATL. Moving around without a car or just dealing with the traffic is one of the major things stopping me from moving back. Otherwise, I love Atlanta
Nathan the post war investment in streamliners was funded entirely by the railroads themselves. The Feds never gave them a cent, unlike the airlines and highways which received huge subsidies
The Floridian out of Chicago to Miami was a great way to get to Atlanta. Chicago is still a great rail hub, and as a trucker it's also a super interchange for traffic going north to south via Atlanta, East to West from Atlanta. The line went from Chicago to Indianapolis to Louisville to Nashville to Chattanooga to Atlanta to Macon to several points in Florida on it's way to Miami
Really cool! Hopefully one day we’ll get an Amtrak route that brings this back
Even as late as the 1960's, our national passenger rail system was still quite extensive compared to what we have today. I remember in 1969 one still had so many choices of how to travel by rail from one city to another. For example, I grew up in Los Angeles and we could take one of three railroads from LA to Chicago. We could ride either the Union Pacific, the Southern Pacific or the Santa Fe with each railroad taking a different route and offering different passenger car designs, amenities and colors. When Amtrak took over the passenger trains in May of 1971, it initially butchered about 60 percent of the passenger lines including several lines out of Atlanta. It was Amtrak that really dismantled the system. And then in 1979, Amtrak did another bloodbath by eliminating another 40 percent of the long distance routes. That is why so many towns and cities in the U. S. no longer have passenger rail service even though they still retain the old rail station and the tracks going into and out of the city. On the day before Amtrak took over, there were nearly a dozen daily trains between Chicago and New York City. The following day when Amtrak took over there was only one daily train between Chicago and New York City.
Very cool thank you for sharing! Thanks for watching
You're welcome. I corrected one error that I made. It was 1979 not 1969 that the second Amtrak butchering of 40 percent of the long distance routes took place.@@nathandaven
For a small channel, your production is amazing!! I hope to see your channel grow a lot!!
Thank you so much!
I remember reading about ATL trains a year ago and then heard nothing after that. Glad to get an update on it and it’s not dead in the water. Getting me excited
One day well get a GA politician running on alternative transportation and theyll have a slam dunk campaign (i can dream..)
@@nathandaven one day. And thank you for doing what you do. I’ve been looking for someone talking about transit and urbanism in atlanta
Yes railroads built this country. Yes existing rail lines run through local towns. But if the rail line is an active freight corridor, putting pax traffic on them will have the same unreliable result as Amtrak’s existing long distance trains. You need parallel pax lines or buy them outright from the freight rail owners. That’s the only way to get reliable pax service in the US.
Check out the white paper and website linked - I barely scratched the surface on the details. Thanks for watching!
Yes. Buying out the freight lines in some places would hurt more than it would help. My small city, for instance, has a single freight rail line that the city was built around. This city and a couple of its neighboring cities have that same line running through it. There are mine plants along the rail line in this city and the others that the freight trains stop on the tracks, maybe for an hour or longer, to load up at. When they're stopped, no other train can get through. The cities here are built in a narrow valley. There is no space for a second track to be built without razing half the buildings.
I film many of the trains that go through Marietta as well as other places in North Ga. etc. Cool video... Subbed Marietta, Ga.
i live in clayton county and for years i’ve said that it would make sense for passenger rail to come through the county as rail runs through morrow and past lovejoy. i was so upset to find out that clayco isn’t able to get the same things that dekalb and fulton county gets
Because only Fulton & DeKalb Counties paid the once cent MARTA sales tax from the beginning. The other counties rejected MARTA and the sales tax. Technically MARTA heavy rail does go into Clayton County, but just to the airport. It is not that the other counties were cheated out or not "able" to get the same things; they rejected MARTA on numerous occasions in the 1980's and 1990's in voter referendums. They said "HELL NO" to MARTA. Deal with the consequences.
I have ridden the train to and from Atlanta several times. I always thought Atlanta deserved better service. It should serve as a hub as in years past serving surrounding cities and even having more long distance trains to places like Florida and Chicago. However as noted in the video the freight railroads need to work with Amtrak and any regional train operator to get the service started. In most cases with minimal track upgrades it should serve both the freight and passenger service.
Great video. I’m an Atlanta* (Marietta) native and Tech civil engineer. I can echo all the points made herein. My great-grandparents worked for the railroads and my grandmother still tells me about all the adventures she and her family would take when she was a child to Chicago, Chattanooga, or Savannah.
The car lobby groups and, more recently, lack of a gas tax increase have ruined any hope for transit to thrive in America. I also absolutely love the long-haul capabilities of air travel, but similar government malfeasance of prioritizing bailouts rather than consumer protections has ensured that both short and long trips are not going to be prioritized by the public sector. The only possibility that exists in our political climate for non-PPP train travel are the medium-length trips that my grandma once boasted about. But when I go to book an Amtrak from Atlanta to Savannah, Chattanooga, or Chicago - sure enough, the routes don’t even exist anymore. Such a shame.
I now work in infrastructure finance consulting and I think your point about Atlanta’s IIJA grants was a little to skipped over. To be clear, the very little portion of the pie we were given for our rail networks was to assess the feasibility of said connections. Companies like Kimley Horn or Skanska will charge in the tens of millions to report construction and operating costs to the government. I think the Memphis-Savannah Amtrak connection will be suggested to cost in the low billions (2-3 billion) but in actuality would balloon to 5+ billion. I have worked on government rail projects of 2% the distance that have cost more.
The ATL trains vision is the way to go: utilizing pre-existing bi-directional rail to bypass existing right-of-way issues and land ownership disputes. Getting the northern counties on board will be the hard part, even without a SPLOST tax. Maybe in my lifetime Cobb County will fund 0.5% 30 year tax, but Paulding and Cherokee never will.
The best option is to start building now. MARTA needs to reach agreements with the municipalities most willing to work with them on light and heavy gauge rail. Start constructing and in a few years, start operating. It will be decades later, but other municipalities will see what they are missing out on and take note.
ONE MILLION TIMES YES IM LITERALLY GONNA PULL UP IN MY HARDHAT
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Really enjoyed this and have grown to love your channel. Thanks for this!
As someone from Gwinnett County, it would be awesome to take a train Downtown and would probably ease up traffic for those that like to drive
Nathan Davenport back at it with another banger
Great information Nathan! Hopefully, this will take off but politically in Georgia it remains to be seen.
That's why *with the right political support, hahaha. There are lots of barriers but the alternative could be awesome! And i think as Atlanta grows, and Amtrak expands in the region, we might see the conversation return at the political level, like in the 2000s with the Georgia Rail Passenger Program
@@nathandaven
Let’s hope, Nathan. I was having dinner with friends Saturday night in Inman Park. They were telling me about the push by people in Inman Park, O4W, and midtown to stop transit on the Beltline. It’s very frustrating when we all know most of those people are new residents from other states. They have zero interest in the original plan for light rail on the Beltline. Thank goodness they are outnumbered but they are making themselves known. These are the type attitudes we will have to fight against should these rail corridors gain serious traction.
The proposed ATLTrains map looks like the Melbourne train map with 4 distinctive "groups" of lines. Melbourne could be a great model for how to build out a regional or suburban rail system. However, the imbalance in the number of lines from the North compared to the South could require some interesting solutions such as a City Loop for trains. Melbourne could also be a good place to learn from in terms of how to upgrade and improve existing infrastructure. Or you could look at Philadelphia which has a really extensive regional rail system (albeit with lacklustre frequencies)
Charlotte to Atlanta high speed rail has amazing potential.
Atlanta → Charlotte → Roanoke → Lexington → Nashville → Memphis → Little Rock → Baton Rouge → New Orleans → Mobile → Tallahassee → Savannah → Atlanta would be amazing. Call it the Sun Belt Railway.
Edit: That route is roughly 2,800 miles and would take 41 hours by car. However with a high speed train like a 286MPH Maglev it would take about 10 hours.
I’ve always wanted to do a video on this topic being in Atlanta for the last 5 years it’s interesting to see how the city had grown but it only exacerbates the need to build more rail infrastructure.
I never thought about it before, but I never realized that Atlanta doesn't have an old train station downtown, unlike most cities of its size. Even many which aren't active anymore repurposed the building for something else. I've been to the small station a few times (mostly because my destination was midtown, so it was convenient), and Atlanta does deserve better.
They tore it down in the 1960's if not before. I thought that the GULCH downtown was to be the panacea, Amtrak, MARTA, bus service. What happened to that? A big fat nothing. GDOT and racism plays a part in that unfortunately. Atlanta will never have good public transport.
I know this was a short segment and had a lot to cover, but I really would have liked a bit more discussion on the interstate highway act and how the federal government funds 90% of highway construction, but barely funds any rail projects. Of course people are going to drive when the scales are tipped to that extreme!
Imagine if the federal government promised to fund 90% of rail projects, we'd have such a high quality network in the US that barely anyone would drive long distances.
Most of the tracks are owned by private rail road companies. I've seen in the Jonesboro area the railroads single tracked their lines to lower the maintenance and tax liability. We need to tax them as a public utility, and if they don't upgrade or maintain There right of ways they should be taxed more on the property.
Mannn... It's kind of a bucket list item for me to take trains to ATL United games. Would be very cool to train to Charlotte, Nashville, and Orlando for games with many of the other ATLUTD supporters. I knew the NYC ---> NOLA train that stops in ATL also stopped in Charlotte, so when they got their team I was 100% going to do that..... And then I looked at the times, the train stops in ATL like once a day at 3:27AM, and that just made it totally unfeasible.
And on top of that, it would be amazing to have a train to Savannah and Charleston.
Is there currently a push to get this in front of legislators? If not what do we have to do to make this happen? Send it to state senators, representatives? Mayors? How do we turn this into a reality?
Definitely needs political backing. Need to get it in front of a politician who is excited about it
I've taken a look at the plan and it gets top marks for being realistic! But I think we're really doing the region a disservice if the *peak* frequency on the line is ~30 mins. That's suitable for long-distance travel (like Atlanta to Charlotte), but it's not really car competitive for trips from Marietta (etc) to Downtown. IMO 12 mins should be the peak frequency, but that puts a lot of stress on the downtown trunk (and schedule constraints made me up the frequency from 10 mins).
Another radical solution: a Marta "super train" that can go from MARTA tracks onto the regular freight network.
Idk, hard to say, so many factors
I will say that here in Toronto, our regional rail has the most popular lines run that 30min/60min frequency with 2 of them running every 30 min all day
Of course, many are large 12-car bi-level cars so the capacity is higher (despite me preferring higher frequency with shorter trains) but generally pretty reliable at moving lots of people
especially during hockey, baseball, basketball, soccer, and football games. All team stadiums are accessible by regional rail, tram, and (for 3 teams now and soon, all 5) heavy rail
But yeah, it's tough to say since there are many factors at play here
My brother in christ you are way too skilled of a filmmaker to only have 2200 subscribers
🥲 thank you!!
I wonder if extending MARTA over the existing ROWS and automation would be more powerful with intercity trains can be express versions of MARTA
hell will freeze over before cobb county allows passenger rail
I was very surprised coming from a great station in Greensboro to exit the train directly onto the aspalt in Atlanta. You would think such a big city would have a better station.
The talk about this type of transit is from very long time ago. When the unlimited buildings permits were issued in early 2000’s the only talk was about bullet trains to Atlanta , but nothing is done
I'd love for this to be a thing and for it to expand up into Bartow County as well.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Bartow county is growing a lot as many of the counties are, but it's not far behind. If they could add Cartersville to it be great.
Great video very well researched and told! GAs lack of state investment and involvement has hamlered public trankst possibloties in Atlanta and the surronding area for decades. Thank you for explaining this so well
Sorry for all the typos, I don't know what was going on, but nevertheless, thank you again and I appreciate the like Nathan
A big factor in cutting intercity trains was the post office moving mail from trains to planes and trucks. The main post office in NYC was right across the street from the old Penn Sta., if Amtrak had PO cars on its regional trains, mail could get to DC and Boston faster than it does now. Some trains had as many or more PO cars than passenger cars. I believe the RRs funded the postwar streamliners themselves not de gobermint.
It's time to bring it back everywhere .
I'm planning a trip to ATL in April and I have to play this cat and mouse game with thew airlines, checking everyday to see if there is a reasonable rate, it's BS. I just checked if there was an direct Amtrak connection from Richmond to ATL, there isn't, you have to travel North for three hours to DC and then catch the Crescent down to the big Peach, it's really insane... Expand rail options now!
Flight prices lately are crazy!
Yes. Train-travel is awesome!
Great deep dive - glad to see so much content digging into practicaly/realistic ways forward for bringing rail back in the US :)
keep doing the good work we need the exposure and vision in ATL
I watched this one was unlisted. Hehe but wanted to read the comments. Im so happy to have an urbanist content for the ATL.
Hahaha i was going to ask how you found the video, but I realized i put it in a playlist which makes it visible, more you know!
Yes, I watched while looking at your playlist. I've been enjoying your content and I happened to be there before you went up on your channel as listed. I was too excited wait.
It's unfortunate this isn't a priority for the Atlanta Metro and its politicians. The reason is the population isn't enthusiastic or informed about this and the benefits it would bring. I think something as simple as changing the name of the system would get people more excited about this. Give it a name like ACER, Atlanta. Connector. Express. Rail. And I bet more people will be interested in it. This has to be marketed as something sleek, fast, and fun to gain more traction.
Great video! I was unaware of ATL Trains. Keep it up!
I personaly love to just get on a train and get driven to any destination I want. I don't have to worry about the fuel etc. You can even sleep in a train while you can't while driving a car.
I had no idea about ATLTRAINS, that’s an awesome idea and the proposed map would be amazing.
Common Nathan W
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I enjoyed the video! Thank you for using my music... 🙏
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Leaving north Carolina now and was planning to do research on the train system! Thanks for the informative video!!
Thanks Mom 🫡
great video nathan! we have such an opportunity here and we really need to take it. You and I both believe that a better Atlanta is possible.
I would love more passenger rail service from Atlanta. I would enjoy relaxing on the rails than doing a 4 hour drive to Nashville, and a 12 hour drive to Miami. I want other options beside car or airplane.
Thanks for watching!
It is exciting, and hope it comes to fruition.
What you describe for the Atlanta area is what's happening now in Los Angeles including HSR. And LA's Union Station is set to get a huge expansion and reworking of its tracks configuration to accept HSR. Very exciting stuff.
A lot of rail infrastructure continues to be built in Los Angeles for the foreseeable future.
Whats cool about LA is that Union is still heavily used for subway and for regional rail and amtrak. Metrolink is a pretty awesome service to have, one day hopefully we could have at least something similar
@nathandaven I hope so too. Atlanta has so much potential that remains untapped. I found your video informative and enjoyed the history lesson.
I'm a big fan of this, but am skeptical that it happens within my lifetime. We're horrendously slow on transit projects
Great to see discussion about this!
Never knew about this plan. I'll try reading it, even if it's beyond my level.
all that i want is to be able to live in atl without having to drive everywhere 😭 car insurance is so expensive
That and the drivers out here are fucking insane nowadays. When I was a child the roads used to be much calmer 😭 I blame the transplants
Love the North Carolina call-out! The Raleigh-Charlotte corridor is thriving and we are looking to add several new routes with the Corridor ID program! Hopefully, the growth of regional and intercity rail will lead to better local transit, especially where I live in the Triangle.
It’s been like that since the rise of automobiles and highways in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
we need to bring them back! especially to Atlanta and more rail for all the counties.
great video, I hope us will get some world class railway asap
What a fantastic video! Very informative.
thanks for watching!
When it comes to Freight Rail, its surprising that none of them ever tried to merge with UPS or FedEx. That would have created a major shipping and freight company that basically covers everywhere.
Monopolies are great. 😂
I'm from England and is shocked that Atlanta with over 400,000 population (not including the metro area) only has 1 station, and one train per day that is crazy. 🤣 my hometown has a population of 25,000 and has 40 trains per day.
Smfh!
Murica🇺🇸
My hometown was Dallas, GA. I moved away a couple years back but it would’ve been cool to actually have a train that ran from Dallas to Atlanta. Kind of like an extension of Marta would be cool
Would be awesome!
Atlanta regional rail can be express versions of Marta
Bring it back ATL!
it's a great project, but pretty useless if it's not coupled with upzoning around stations and elimination of parking minimums. and if new development is still allowed more than 1/2 mile from transit its still gonna be a car dependent metro area
The positive of this is that ~80% of older town centers are on these railroad cooridors. Reason i used the example of Marietta is that marietta square its a moderately sized, walkable bastion in the middle of cobb county. (Ignoring nimby issues) But many more examples have little downtowns that could densify easily with organic development in all of these counties
@nathandaven I agree and that's a very good point. can't believe u responded to me. love your high quality videos. keep up the good work! looking forward to more content from you
Atlanta needs passenger rail!! Salt Lake City is trying to do the same. The Rio Grande Plan is the start and Link Utah will be the continuation!!
AMTRAK MIGHT BE BUILDING A NEW RAIL HUB
Thank you👊🏾👴🏾✌🏾
This network that is planned is similar to a typical hybrid metro/suburban railway network in Australian cities today. If you look at the network map of Melbourne or Sydney Australia you will see what I mean.
I need to go to Australia one day!
This sounds crazy, but what would you say if i become Emperor of North America (Just Canada and the US)? I’m planning on renovating all our towns and cities to be as walkable and transit-friendly as Oslo and Copenhagen. It won’t be easy, but heavy is the head that wears the crown.
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North Carolina seems to be able to accomplish what Georgia cannot.
I feel like It might be more likely to happen now that Florida and North Carolina are planning real for Georgia to do so. Georgia doesn't like being behind its neighbors.
But the locals got to be vocal. 😊
@@KCH55 "... Georgia doesn't like being behind its neighbors.
But the locals got to be vocal. "
Well, yes. The legislature won't pay to MARTA, but funded the gargantuan freeway expansions over the years. Which seem only to make the drive worse. Still, I suppose it's possible. Unless they give that crackpot member of the lege who wanted to double-deck the freeways some authority. But he's probably retired now and too terrified of Atlanta traffic to drive there.
Yes! Thanks for the vid Nathan!
I was actually visiting friends in ATL in Dec when i learned about the federal and state interest and funding for intercity rail
I legit thought, "i wonder when Nathan's gonna talk about this"😆
I gotta say that Toronto's GO Train, while i have criticisms, is quite reliable at moving loads of people between suburb cities in the region
I hope you guys can get regional rail soon! I rode MARTA for the first time and you guys have a lot of potential going with that too!
Just don't make the same mistake of neglecting a loop or regional connector to ease pressure on the central station. Maybe also have 2 central stations; our Union Station is a victim of its own success
Hahaha thanks for watching!
I know that sad little Amtrak station!
only if our state leaders would take this into consideration, I have high hopes in our state though.
Fourth generation Atlantan here. Amazing content but would you consider turning the background music down? It makes it hard to focus on what you’re saying! Keep on keeping on!
I overdid it on this video i know 😖 I need to make sure to test on phone speakers to level
wow!
:(
this alongside expanded Marta rail services in places inside the perimeter, along ga 400, cumberland and gwinnett place would be awesome
I feel that they should run MARTA heavy rail out to Windward Parkway which is still inside Fulton County, one of two counties that paid the one cent MARTA sales tax. Cobb & Gwinnett never did so why should they get MARTA? Both counties rejected that numerous times throughout out the 1980's and 1990's. Tough luck I say.
@@kennixox262 to be fair, the politics of both of those counties have changed a lot in the past decade alone. ridership potential should be the deciding factor in where Marta is expanded, and places like cumberland, gwinnett place and, as you mentioned, north fulton would definitely boost ridership a significant amount
ABSOLUTELY the demographics have changed in both Cobb & Gwinnett counties. However they have NOT paid the MARTA tax over the past fifty years as has Fulton & DeKkalb Counties. I doubt that MARTA for many reasons won't be adding anymore heavy rail. Perhaps some dedicated bus service and if I recall, Cobb has their own transit system connecting to MARTA and at the Doraville station, a lot of cars from Gwinnett according to the license plates. I have no dog in that race, I live in car dependent Las Vegas that has no real public transport. I remember that in the 1980's the suburbanites said that MARTA would bring crime out to the burbs. I'm from what is now Brookhaven and not too far from the Brookhaven MARTA station. I know the area very well. I will continue to tell the counties that opted out of MARTA - too bad they opted out and missed out when the heavy rail was going full steam. @@ayeeeeeeee6240
Best of luck from Washington state
I don’t think rail will make that big of difference in traffic or urban sprawl, which is the true problem of metro Atlanta. For those who want rail, move inside the perimeter and use MARTA.
I agree! But i think this is a good solution for suburban regional transit funded by the participating counties. MARTA should focus on intown service and TOD
came back here to say that atlanta DESPERATELY needs a regional rail system. There’s got to be an alternative to the absurd interstate commutes people suffer through every day. If we don’t it’ll only get worse as metro atlanta expands.
Railroads did not make money on Passengers, but on mail and high priority head end express. Things easily pinched by trucks and airlines.
Personally, I'd love a robust pax rail system, but they really only work when they are not on shared rails. Passenger trains are these conditions fiddle to freight. As far as building from scratch goes you mentioned while it will never happen perhaps without even realizing it. GA residents will never vote to fund a SPLOST of that magnitude. It just won't happen.
What truly killed the passenger service wasn’t the interstate system, but the USPS pulling the mail contracts from railroads to trucks and planes.
It was everything combined but also you can make a case certain lines had to be operated on due to the regulations for freight and passenger service even though it was not economical. It was a spiral of many things that hurt companies that already struggled with freight services due to the regulation. Regional service was definitely impeded by cars with interstates taking up the same corridors or similar ones. Even certain instances of Rail lines being ripped out for interstates to build on the right of way like with the Erie Lackawanna Boonton Line, it was bound to happen no matter what. And I am not sure of exact dates but Passenger Rail was struggling from a point right after the war ended until it was basically put down by all railroads as they attempted to survive. The Mail Contracts did slightly affect it but the problems began so much earlier that that was like a nail in the coffin. Conrail was one thing but multiple other companies at that stage had already merged and abandoned to attempt to stay afloat and the one I mentioned earlier did so in 1960 which from what I see was before the mail contracts were pulled. They to be fair were the most well off of the Railroads that went into Conrail but the passenger service they provided was in 1920s equipment on old and dilapidated infrastructure the mail service was not their bread and butter just a possibility too making the longer distance runs plausible, but by that point, only a few long-distance runs were remaining most of it was regional. Their main stay traffic-wise in the early 70s was piggybacks and if they still had mail contracts they would have just tacked it onto one of those.
No. What ruined passenger rail service was the creation of Amtrak at the behest of freight companies. And then subsequently not adequately fund it. It was a huge con job by the freight companies .
There is also the issue of track and ROW ownership. A handful of companies own the vast majority to this day. When Amtrak was created there should have been a stipulation for Amtrak to own the ROWs it needed for passenger service. It's completely BS that the vast majority of track that Amtrak uses is leased from freight. Subsequently, these private freight companies don't have any incentives to upgrade track infrastructure and safety technology to run higher speed passenger trains. It's not a coincidence that the country with the largest privately run freight rail system in the world is also the country with NO HSR!
@@mrxman581 like I mentioned you cannot magically turn freight lines into hsr I honestly cannot think of many lines other than ones built/upgraded for faster speeds with large scale projects. If you want to sit here and act like Horseshoe or Gilluly loops would be any better suited for Amtrak had Amtrak owned the lines you are just lying to yourself, lines that they can upgrade have been upgraded. But you cannot turn lines that were carved through canyons and river valleys into hsr lines thats just not how it works. And the lines like the Michigan Service or the Illinois service are receiving upgrades. The main reason they do not own the lines is because if they are going to run a single money losing train anyways then what is the genuine point when it actually made sense for them to own them like with the NE Corridor they actually got ownership from Conrail. And the freight companies could not have done anything when Amtrak was formed if you had not researched before in life almost every Northeastern Railroad except D&H and a few Western Roads like the Milwaukee Road were struggling to the point they could barely even provide adequate freight service, and the government being the government decides that the best way to go about it is to slash the amount of service and not invest into lines to keep the services already provided. But then again ridership was so low it would not have ever made any sense to do that but if you want to blame the little old Erie Lackawanna for not having passenger service in between NY and Buffalo via Scranton and Binghamton be my guest.
I hate driving thru Atlanta
How does it not affect freight trains? Are you building new tracks and stations?
Capacity upgrades would be made in a lot of cases that would improve freight service while also allowing passenger traffic!
Pretty good video, but I thought your topic was about interstate or national rail network expansion with trains through Atlanta but you’re really talking about just the GA regional state network of passenger trains
Long overdue for a comeback.
I've been to that station! I was on holiday in the US and took the sleeper from New York to Atlanta (so the midnight train to Georgia). I was surprised at how tiny the station was, and how awfully isolated. It's a tenth the size of Utrecht Centraal, while serving ten times the number of residents. A tragic demonstration of Atlanta's transport priorities.
an EPIC VIDEO!!!
thank you!!
The sooner passenger rail advocates in Georgia get serious, the better it will be, because the task of developing robust passenger rail there will be very difficult for two reasons. First the political will for passenger rail there is so low it will take at least a decade to build a healthy climate. Secondly so much of the capacity has been let go to waste. Both of the old downtown rail stations have been lost. The freight railways have to protect their property and property rights, as well they should. North Carolina has been increasingly successful because that state has owned a key rail corridor since the 1850s, so they never lost the desire to support either freight or passenger rail. NCDOT has excellent relations with Norfolk Southern and Amtrak.
Fine abolish the gas tax if it can’t be used on trains
Long as we know its not Dekalb and Fulton holding this back....
Fulton & Dekalb have been paying the MARTA tax for many decades. The other counties have not contributed thus should not reap the rewards of that tax. They didnt' want it (MARTA) they didn't get it and now they complain? 40 years too late in my book. They should have thought about that in 1982!
that damn Robert Moses
Had nothing to do with Atlanta.
Didn't his great grandfather part the Red Sea?
you'd be wrong. he's the inspo for all highways in America @@chrispontani6059
yes@@davidjackson7281