I appreciate your content and many others' that do what you do. It is what inspired me to get into public land hunting. I also agree that exploding populations are a huge contributor to this problem, but it's FAR from the only contributor. There are hundreds if not thousands of videos of content creators complaining about pressure while hunting as well as how difficult it is to draw a tag. When you inspire the masses to get into hunting (like you did for me), you are part of the problem. I don't say that to beat anyone up, but I think it'd only be fair to acknowledge this point in the videos you make about this topic. Thank you for what you do (and I do mean that sincerely)!
I've said the same thing for years, influencers and hunting industry people beg everyone to get into hunting then wonder why there is more pressure and lower draw odds after a few years. there are pros and cons to increasing hunter numbers though, its not black and white
Yes, hunter recruitment is a double edged sword. On one edge we need more hunters for their $ to support Fish & Game managers, buy critical habitat, research and solve disease issues, reintroduce species, etc. On the other edge they drive up competition for tags. Many of us old fudds have been warning about the downside of human population increase since at least the 1960s. And now, with the habitat destruction resulting from more people (housing, highways, water consumption, power creation and consumption, more wild country converted to monoculture agriculture...) we have renewed calls from many politicians for even more people to "keep the economy strong and growing." We can have more people and more manmade habitats (cities, suburbs) or more wildlands and wildlife, but not both. We've made our beds, and now we must lie in them.
It's at the point we're I'm going to have to accept elk hunting is something I won't be able to do every year anymore. I love it, but with the expense and the amount of hunters in the west, it's just the reality. Hopefully set my goal to be able to go every 5 years. Wish I could turn the clock 10-15 years and do a lot more elk hunting. Thanks for the great videos Randy!
I knew all of the WY info and I agree with Randy, burn your points, but one thing Randy did not say that I will is QUIT buying ANY points after as well. These states have been living off NR for years and will continue to screw us by changing things so one way to make the residents cough up more money is stop going there. Most residents seem to want to pay more to not see NR, so..let them bare the cost. Randy and his crew won't be hunting these states like regular folks for a long time either, you heard him, they all burned points and are starting over. I'm not sure how you have a show if you have no tags...so this will be interesting for sure. Maybe he will start buying outfitter tags and land owner like others do now. I wish you all luck on your draws this year and I hope Randy is wrong about a 4 point creep...that would suck for a lot of people.
Thank you for putting together this content and for your diligence in staying up to date on all of this. As a Colorado resident, and someone who started hunting long after the beginning of the point system, your information helped me understand that I was never going to be able to play the point game. While these discussions are often focused on "point access" at the state level, my reality is that even though I live in Colorado, there are many units in my state that I will simply never be able to hunt. My sympathies for people who have been building points for a decade or more, resident or not, are rather limited. Especially for those who choose not to hunt now in favor of buying points year after year. Foregoing hunting experiences and holding out for that one singular "opportunity of a lifetime" has always been a gamble. And gambles don't always pay off. I have been able to get an elk tag every year. Sometimes it was only an OTC archery or rifle tag. Not all of those tags were for great units by any means. Some were quite terrible actually, especially for low-population units in worse-than-usual weather years. But I do get to hunt, learn, spend time with friends and family, put some meat in my freezer, and enjoy our public lands. Which I think is what it is all really about. I am quite curious about your updated public land video Randy. You eluded to the fact that people sometimes try to make the argument that "this is public land so we should all have access to it". That is absolutely true, but access to public land is not the same as access to harvesting wildlife, which is owned and managed by the state. Everyone is entitled to access (most) public land even if they don't hunt, so we should be careful not to conflate land access with wildlife access.
Agree on all those points. That is the premise of the video - there is no connection to land ownership and allocation of hunting tags. Good luck in 2023.
Randy, I personally think that if Colorado would just eliminate OTC Elk hunting and made all those a draw with a large quota and left the R/NR allocations the same it would cause a dramatic slowdown or reversal of point creep after 1 or 2 years. Because right now people buy an elk point AND go hunting. If you went all to a draw, even with large quotas per unit, people would have to buy points OR hunt...not both. So for a couple years the points may go up as people burn then but very shortly people that used to buy a point AND hunt would get tired of not hunting and burn points more regularly. That would fix elk point creep in a couple years. The critical thing for NRs is the allocation. It is interesting because on one hand the CPW depends on the high NR tag sales and high fees to fund their budgets. If they cut out the NR tag allotment after people burn their points on every specie they will be done. I am doing as you say...I am burning my points in WY and CO and then I will sit out for a while and watch. Because 2-3 years after the states cut the NR tags and jack the fees to even more insane levels people will slow down significantly and the G&F budgets will get hammered
I think eliminating the OTC elk tags, and turning them to draw only units that are 0 point draws, it will bring down the point creep in trophy units as well as along with building herd sizes and quality in those units. It’s no longer quality hunting in OTC units because of the mass amounts of hunters we have been seeing. I stopped OTC hunting for this reason, and am stocking up points to hunt a quality unit.
Randy I sincerely enjoy & appreciate your content. The info for the application strategy and behind the scenes issues is very helpful and enlightening. For us from the Midwest the process of hunting out west was so complicated and you along with GoHunt have made it relatively easy. As far as buying points goes, I can only speak for myself. I'm primarily a white tailed deer hunter. Most of my time and resources are put towards that. However I have been applying for elk, mule deer, and pronghorn points in several of the western states yearly. For someone like myself with work and family obligations, I can only afford one of those western vacations every year or two both from a money and a time standpoint. For me building those points makes sense.
Let me guess now to hunt ill have to approach an outfitter / guide to get a tag and that's way out of my price range and out of most of the guys that like me that work for a living and can't pay 10k to hunt. Well congratulations to the outfitters in making western hunting a rich man's game.
I think a lot of the hunting guys on CZcams were and are kinda naive about how many people will hop in the truck and drive cross county once they literally showed them when and where to go. The numbers of hunters on public land in every state I’ve been in the last few years has absolutely exploded, from Midwest for deer/turkeys to elk in every west state , it’s gotten crazy.
Thanks Randy. I did try for Idaho. The folks there at fish and game thought it would be funny to redirect me to the end of the line instead of the purchase area. 4 times they did this and finally gave up as they had to phone help either. The best they can do. Amazing. So keep us informed so maybe I can try for another state that’s better organized.
Good news. Anything we can do to lessen the commercialization of our natural wildlife would be my goal. The incredible amount of money people are willing to pay for a large elk, Mule deer, etc is sickening. I want people who need meat to be the first to get a tag. Subsistence hunting here in Arizona has gotten more and more difficult. The shenanigans being committed here for an ego rack is pretty sad. I’m an Az native, I refuse to go surrounding states.
I live in Colorado and I have 5 points for both elk and antelope. I'm more than likely going to use my points for a 1st season rifle for elk and giving serious consideration to burn my antelope points (maybe archery). I've hunted every year and gained some experience, but haven't gotten an elk yet. This year I was with my buddy and helped him get his first. So I'm hoping to get a decent tag and get my first.
Nevada is getting tough for residents as well. Wildlife populations (ESP. Mule Deer) are under pressure from drought, feral horses (worse than you can possibly imagine), and poor predator control. Money depends on mule deer apps, but the reality is that the mule deer population deserves the management that has been so successful for Elk and Pronghorn. Add population (residents) pressure to the application process, it’s a CF.
Thank you Randy! I burned my 11 Wyoming Pronghorn points this year... I'm Definitely burning my 14 Wyo Elk points in 2023! Always just built points. IM JUMPING IN!
I’m glad Idaho reacted when they did. I definitely saw the results this year. I also saw the results when raw land sold near my house to someone from Washington that wants to make it his Idaho “residence” so he can hunt.
Great coverage Randy albeit beating the "burning pts in Wyoming" segment...haha. Retired military here. Speaking on hunting rights res/non-res, my 78 yr old mother mentioned the other day --- why do those who served active duty military service for 20+ years even have to apply/pay?...in any state? Yes, certain states allow them a "resident" discount but uniform name tag says "U.S." on it. No particular state. Again great content and I'm looking at my strategy for non-res hunts next year already so this is right on time.
I don't think you have to worry to much with Utah cutting out of state tags. DWR loves that mad money more than the residents. I have been adhering to the burn your points statement, but they don't want to give me any tags. Randy, thanks for the hard work in putting this information together for us.
Living in Utah in the late 1980's I distinctly remember the change that Utah DWR underwent in switching from the family friendly, pro resident, cultural "right of passage" deer hunt to the "show me the money" pro non - resident tag application system. It RUINED the ability for the creation of family and friend based memories. All for the sake of money!
I couldn’t even draw out for the general muzzleloader and I’m a Utah resident. I went with my buddy who is a dedicated hunter and we talked to a group of guys up on the mountain from California who had 6 tags in camp. Such BS
I hunt deer and elk every year in Utah. Quit complaining. The only reason you don't draw is because you are holding out for a limited tag or apply in general areas that take a few years to draw. I live in Utah and can hunt every year, nobody is buying these whining complaints. Utah DNR is doing a great job considering our ridiculous population growth and less areas to hunt and fewer animals to hunt. Non resident and resident tag numbers are set and non residents get very few tags. Looks at the numbers and quit voicing an opinion that is made up.
@@joshcc1974 l don't know where you are getting tags at. But the only way I can figure you are hunting deer every year is having access to landowner tags. Which needs to end, privatizing a public resource is 🐂 💩 and illegal.
@@louiscapasso4452 I don't buy landowner tags. I get online early and get an over the counter elk tag every year, I then purchase a leftover deer muzzleloader tag when I don't draw, all from the DNR site. You have to spend time figuring out the areas that you pretty much draw every year.
I saw Montana change the out of state tags process; a friend of mine who had hunted 10+ years for deer and had an active "party" was told that he was not getting a tag, and might (emphasis on "might" draw a tag in three years. As he was about 74 when that occurred, that pretty much ended his hunting in Montana.
I've always agreed with the "burn your points" idea. Unfortunately it aint that simple (in my world)... for instance, the year you drew your Utah, non resident archery Bison permit, I was right there with you on points. You got the permit, I didn't. The next year perhaps a rifle hunter with max points decided to try archery instead. Again I didn't draw. The same till last year when Utah decided to stop the non resident archery permits and even the resident archers had to hunt in January if they want to hunt with archery only. Who knows what possibilities there will be this coming year. Similar situation for the San Jaun archery elk I've been trying for many years and counting. Statistics always tell me I'm about guaranteed the archery elk permit, (unless a frustrated near max point rifle hunter decides he wants to try that new fangled archery thing) then I get bumped out again 'cause only one or two non resident archers get to hunt the archery season. ...so even though the "burn your points" idea is valid, it's still a challenge. I always laugh these days at "statistics", "guarantees", "probabilities" etc with a grin on my face. Keep up the great work Randy, I always enjoy your commentaries, articles and videos. Fortunately I live in the great state of Idaho, so I always am able to be blessed with a way above average opportunity to hunt our great rocky mountain country. Merry Christmas sir.
Agree, Neal. I wish it was easy to "just burn" points for some of those species, like moose, goat, sheep, bison. If it was, I wouldn't have 20+ points for some species in many states. Merry Christmas to you, also.
Thanks for the video Randy. Makes me hate being a Michigan resident even more. My heart is out west but my wife’s family is here. I’d move and hunt elk every year at the drop of a hat. So this news is unfortunate, but helpful.
I feel sorry for the people who only make one out of state hunt per year. But for the rapidly growing number of "game hogs' or tag hogs" who make a living hunting as many states as possible to make youtube videos, no sympathy. They helped create this problem!
Two biggies in Colorado. One is the mandated reintroduction of wolfs which will eventually change herd number dynamics. Two is the powers that be at CPW are talking about going to a complete total big game draw system if that happens it will be a total game changer.
@@rudyhernandez9947 It's not a rumor. CPW have had open discussions about going to an all-draw system for big game tags. Whether it actually happens & when is yet to be determined.
The Wolves will definitely have a big impact on CO Elk numbers especially when the animal rights groups get court injunction one after another allowing the Wolves to explode and go way beyond agreed upon goals. It's the outfitters who don't want out of state tag #s cut as per game Warden I spoke with this fall. Not sure why they don't just make a percentage of non-res tags outfitter only.
I hear what you said about Colorado and point creep but with the fact that Colorado implementing the "must purchase a qualifying license" rule... I dont think you'll see as much point creep going forward. Its just too expensive for most people. You have to pay around $100 a year for a elk point, I dont think many people are going to continue to pay that year after year just to keep accumulating points. They are also requiring more historically OTC Archery tag units to now be on a draw system so youll see people have to burn their points to continue to hunt those units as well. I believe the point creep will turn to a point slide in the near future.... hopefully
I love you randy, But can your look at the stats. Honestly idaho was OTC but when you started this doing this application/deadline content. Things took off.... not to blame you BUT.. do you think that hunting is a money making main stream now has that made tags have a higher demand????,,
My rule has always been simple....if I want a specific hunt in a specific unit, I just apply every year for that hunt in that unit. When I get it, I get it. While I may not be guaranteed to draw it for X number of years, in some States, including mine, I might get the "lottery" draw early. So I stick with what I want, but don't just buy points and camp on them. Actually APPLY for the hunt you want. Yep, it can be a bit of a scramble to put it together when you get a tag without expecting it. Deal with it and be happy for the opportunity.
A good point and reminder for anyone and everyone. I don’t have more than 4 points in any one state, not because I have burned any but started building points late. My youngest brother, cousins and uncle suffered through 8-9 hours of the ridiculous chaos that is the Idaho over the internet tag 🏷️ buy. What a horrible system that left 41,000 people that bought a $185 non refundable non resident license 🪪 without a tag 🏷️ since there was 12k elk and 14k deer OTC tags available but 67k people trying to log in and get in line. I wasn’t able to participate but hopefully 🤞🏻 with 4 points for pronghorn and mule deer 🦌 in Wyoming I will be able to draw a hunt around the same time they are going.
@@davidmerriott7356 ok good to hear that. I know that many were advised to buy the license before hand, even 30 minutes before it started. I would hate to spend that $185 and not be able to get in the virtual waiting room or line. Thanks for clearing that up.
It's finally coming to light! All those people that you and the other "professional CZcams hunters" told to come on out and hunt and hyped up the sport and made a "school" to learn the arts, they finally showed up and want their turn. I hope you like waiting in line and aren't line jumpers for the sake of views. Time will tell.
I also love how all the professional CZcams hunters hunt multiple states every year paid by sponsors/viewers. Imagine how many other hunters would have the opportunity to hunt if guys like Randy, Cam Hushin, Born and Raised guys only hunted one tag per year like most average guys.
@Garrett Keener you do realize that the 70,000 people that were trying to buy a tag on Dec. 1 in Idaho is more then a handful of CZcams hunters. It's time for the wealthy "hunting industry" professionals to sit back and chew on their great success while watching from the sidelines or from a pile of corn down in Texas with the Nuge waiting for a whitetail to come to the feeder for their scheduled feedings.
Heard that in 22 co sold 14000 resident E/S archery elk tags and 18000 non resident! We are getting crushed by non residents out here! Nothing against them but there has too be a limit!
Yes I think there should be a limit at least on it. I did buy an elk point this year because I still have meat left from last year, when I was lucky to get a tag with no points. I had no idea that so many people buy points for years on end until Randy talked about it in this video.
I'm going to be completely honest with you Randy.. I think the issue is all of the Hunting CZcams channels have contributed to this problem. For years you all have been saying... " If I can do this , You can do this". "Get out there and do it" Now every single time you guys run into pressure, you guys always complain about the people on public land. What did you expect would happen.. When dozens of you creators say. "Get out there and hunt the West.. Every single time I here someone say those words I cringe!!!
Randy I really appreciate you and what you do iv been dreaming of a western elk hunt for about 15 years unless I win a million dollar lottery my dreaming just went to hell
Randy, thanks for the wisdom. Guess it’s time to start coonhunting again. Always have the woods to yourself, all the smart people are in their warm beds sleeping. And you can make some cash off the hides. You don’t have to be quiet, scent free or have anything more than a .22 rim fire. Plenty of raccoons in the Midwest.
As a colorado resident, I've seen many changes over the years... Back in the dark ages, I used to just go buy archery elk, deer, bear, etc over the counter for the unit that I really want to hunt now... Now I collect points for that unit for both deer and elk... I wish I was one of those smart people your talking about, Randy. 🙄
Went to Colorado this year for 10days. did not see a single Elk, Bear, or Antelope. i did see 10 elk carcass from last year, 6 moose, & a Wolf (witch isnt supposed to be there). ....ill never go back.
I only started hunting four years ago, I don't have enough points to burn yet. Haven't even had an opportunity to get a general Wyoming elk tag yet... I'd like to burn my points, but I don't have enough yet. What a bummer... I'll keep building points in different states and applying, but the future seems pretty bleak for folks like me.
I don’t blame them for wanting the reduction in NR tags but they should increase residents cost for lost revenue instead of relying on NR funding there state department. Colorado will loose millions if the proposed OTC tag allocation goes through just for archery. In those focus groups residents said they would pay more, but to make it up tags would go up by $100-$300 for them. That won’t happen, they may bump them up some but will increase NR even more to fund their state to make up for the loss.
It isn't the locals demanding less nonresident tags. It is all the people who have moved here becoming residents and getting otc tags putting more pressure on herds. Added to that a few hard years dropping herd numbers and all those people moving here building houses in prime habitat, especially wintering grounds and voila you have a decision made to drop tag numbers. Not going to cut the tags of the hand that feeds you first, but be sure residents tag numbers will drop too.
I’m with this guy. I live in a state everyone is moving to and the amount of new resident hunters dwarfs the total amount of non resident hunters. That being said, I’m still a fan of limiting the amount of non residents. Most of the out of state hunters I see are from states that have the same hunting opportunities they just don’t use them.
@@Aerosith Too many hunters is only a problem with outdated management schemes for both animals and hunters. Always good to have more hunters...as long as it isn't in your spot.
I was a CO resident for 54 years before work took me to TX. I was piling up points for a unit 2 either sex tag. Never pulled it as a resident and I am sitting on 26 points for elk and still can't pull that tag. It is getting a little frustrating.
I’ve been planning an elk hunt for my military retirement in area 45 in Wyoming. Last I saw it took 11 points to draw that unit and I can’t afford to go out there. I hope by the time 2033 rolls around there are changes for the better
I'm from PA and I've bow hunted Colorado every year for the past 25 years. Over the counter Elk and perfectly happy with my success ratio. It wasn't as good the first few years. Keep in mind my plan from the start is to eat the thing so I'll kill a cow on the first day in the first hour. No problem done it many times. Then I go fishing AND that is a great experience in CO. I hunt WY too about every three years and there I hunt rifle with another buddy. He handles that and I think we usually need three points to draw.
I have 5 elk and pronghorn points for Wyoming. I will use them as soon as I can. Especially as being not from the west and now a persona non grata in these states for hunting as a non resident. Funny that my money is always welcomed and sought out by these states and Elk groups. I've always been generous with them but may have to rethink it.
For the last two years, I have drawn rifle tags for cow elk in Wyoming. I have a freezer full of elk meat . . To me, it's hunting with friends and having a fun time. Hope to kill a cow elk next year with my longbow.
@@josephkoziol5421 I absolutely agree. I am using my points on a cow elk hunt. I am the same. Antlers are nice to have but having meat and spending time with friends and family while getting it it's of most value.
Makes me wonder if there is a point where they raise tags so much on NR that their income takes a huge hit due to lack of tags sold. I know the residents would like less NR but where is the dollar per tag where the NR say forget this and then that loss in income burden shifts to the residents. I know it's not there yet even for $1300 or so for a deer tag isn't it but I imagine it starts to get to $2k for deer and a lot more for elk you gotta think the NR will start looking for a different hobby.
Thank you so much for putting these out. Would love to have a little advice on gaining some points in Wyoming for my daughter to hunt Antelope. Long story short, she's 8 now and thinking an antelope hunt would be a good introductory big game animal when she turns 12 to 14 (assuming its something she's still interested in doing when she gets to that age). Would it be worthwhile to start accumulating some points for both of us? Thanks for all the hard work you put into the hunting space! I'm an Idaho resident and can't draw an Idaho speed goat tag to save my life so there is a little selfishness in my question too haha!
Have to be 12 years old by December 31 to buy a license or a point. You could start buying points now, and assuming party applications are still s thing, your average by the time she’s applying would be higher.
Here I am with a measly 2 points. Guessing I shouldn’t even bother to apply this year with everyone cashing in their points. I just need to move back to Wy.
Good information Randy. I have 7 elk points in WY and 5 deer points. I was planning to apply for the deer elk combo tag in MT this year but your video has me thinking I should burn points in WY. If I don’t use any WY points this year, will the point creep settle down in a few years. Can a guy wait it out?
Me and my brother had a tradition of going to Montana every year for deer hunting, but the price keeps going up (for the tag/license, not including gas, food, lodging, even camping fees). We finally said, we could go to Hawaii instead, for the same $$, and not deal with this bull****. Hunting has turned into a pissing contest of who has the most money and/or time. I think I'll let Montanans pay their own way. If they think non resident hunters are terrible (which I've been told countless times and ways) just wait until they see what's coming next; it's already happened to the rest of the country; join the club. On that same note; reminder, you can't own a 1000+ acre ranch, drive an $80K truck and be poor. Try living in a rented apartment with a view of a parking lot, and you'll see the difference in lifestyle.
In 2 days 37k people watched this video… The point creep will be so much worse as folks seek to burn their points. So glad we moved out west 3 years ago, finally get to hunt elk every year
No matter how the pie is cut, the problem stems from too much human population. People will move to those states in hopes for better odds. Over time, resident odds will decrease even further. Non-resident odds are sure to be eliminated. One thing's for sure is the squeeze will probably cause an uptrend in poaching.
So if I am a resident of one of state's you named, and have a bunch of points. Just keep putting in for my hunt... Or should I be looking at a different unit to apply my points to?
Would it be logical to have a “Federal” based tag system if there are large swaths of Federal lands? That’s the entire nation land, not the states land. If I pay taxes to a federal system then should I have equal access to hunt on that federal land?
This is a terrible idea. What about the private landowners and residents paying property taxes and local taxes contributing to the local economy. Federal land is a patch work and most deer and elk herds wander far beyond federal lands during the winter.
Nope. Wildlife is a state public trust resource. Wildife is owned by the citizens of each state. And it has worked fabulously for wildlife recovery. If you want to find out about what federal control of hunting tags looks like ask an Alaskan about all the areas the feds have closed to hunting.
You do have access to the land. You just don't get access to a tag unless the state that those Federal lands are found in allows you to get a tag. This is the United States where you have a choice to pick a state. Choose wisely!
I don't know if it is logical, but hunter support for public land will fall every time a state takes an action to lock out non-residents. I think we'll see calls to cap resident tags on federal lands if they keep pushing.
I am brand new and just started buying points in Wyoming this year. A single point in mule, pronghorn, and elk. What should I do? Keep purchasing points or go for a hunt 2023? Do I even have enough points to hunt?
25% of tags are issued randomly, without regard to points, so yes, you always have a chance in Wyoming. Keep applying every year and hope you get a random tag, and keep buying points if you are interested in eventually hunting in Wyoming.
There goes nonrez hunts in general between the percentages and the cost increases… it’s only a matter of time when you won’t be able to hunt at all in some of these states…
You always hear that hunting is losing hunters every year, that the youth aren't getting involved. Maybe the Midwest and the rust belt, but to your point out West, it's crazy. Colorado is an absolute mess with its tags. Any Out of state hunters can come buy a tag over the counter....now that's nuts if you think about that. They have also changed archery hunting from mainly OTC and are trying to make it draw only while they allow unlimited rifle tags in some of the same units (including out of state) it's honestly all about the revenue. Colorado Park and wildlife have a lot of anti hunters involved, and this adds a wrinkle that is not seen to the public. One other thing is out Governor who's husband is anti hunting as well are trying to remove cat hunting and trapping, but since the wolf's are coming back, they have backed off. If you have points in Colorado and hunt vail to Glenwood springs or Monarch to Gunnison, you have 2-3 years before the wolves will start affecting your hunting experience. Thanks Randy, I liked you when I first ran across you on Team elk and really appreciate how humble of a man you are. Stay healthy brother!!
Well that was not fun to hear. Though I was not surprised. Not sure how I will get to hunt with my son in a western state as we had hoped to when he is old enough in 3 years
Wish this video would have came out a tad sooner. I would have wasted my Wyoming points instead, but I was able to get a great Idaho elk tag. Way i see it there is more than just elk to hunt out west. If i wasn't spending my money on western outdoor activities I would still be smoking cigars. Now thats burning money
It’s true the trends will lean toward favoring residents, but the fact of the matter is these western states wildlife agencies simply cannot continue to exist without a certain amount of license sales, application fees…etc… from non residents. Look at my home state of Montana. Block management would not exist without a certain number of non resident license sales. It’s more complicated than just cutting out non residents more and more. It’s not sustainable
Not only getting harder and harder, but more expensive and more expensive. These states got it figured out how to get your MONEY!!! All this is about MONEY. YOUR MONEY.
I live in Colorado. I got no problem at all with non-residents. How arrogant and unfair to think just because you happened to be birthed somewhere that you have some special “right” to hunt there and some guy from another state shouldn’t be allowed to come enjoy the beautiful state you call home. That’s selfish nonsense. What would help is 1) cap or completely eliminate OTC tags, 2) remove the points system and make it like Alaska where everyone has the same chance to draw, 3) reduce non-resident allocations to 20%. There are other ways that would work too but that would start it. None of that would happen in CO though because they love the unlimited OTC tag revenue. Wolves also don’t have to apply for tags!
I’m sure the outfitters on the hunting boards for Wyoming and every other state have the resident Hunter in mind😂😂😂😂. Every law they’re gonna push for is going to make sure they get more guaranteed tag so they can lease up more land which will drive more and more hunters onto the limited Public
ONLY IN BC...we have to count the points on antlers...and measure them before we put a bullet into the animal... oh, and ONLY IN BC do we count the points on one side... so if there are 2 points on each side...it is not a 4 point.... EVERY OTHER PROVINCE in Canada who allows harvesting of big game animals...if it has antlers and you have a legal tag...you can harvest the animal
Thx for the info! Just so I'm clear on what I'm supposed to do...was it burn my points or burn my Legislator? Lol I'm one of the guys sitting on max Wy deer pts! Once I do burn them I can assure you I won't be doing it again in Wyoming!
The irony of this video just blows me away. Here we have an influential hunting personality sharing tips on how to overcome the lack of tags available to nonresidents, while simultaneously promoting the act of applying for as many tags as possible. You can't make this stuff up! Not only that, this video is sponsored by a company that profits from people gobbling up as many tags as possible. Stop giving your money and time to these people before the resource is completely gone!
@@wescollins23 we got so many moose and a guide will gladly take you out and make money. Without the equipment and man power you ain’t getting a thousand pound animal out of the woods. There is no way you can fly in and hunt them without a guide. You could drive a properly equipped truck across the country but if you aren’t prepared you will be stuck in the woods alone with multiple flats and a moose you can’t recover in knee deep swamp as you get what meat you can. With a guide you drop it, pull it, gut it, load it, tag it and haul it out to a real butcher shop that handles 1000 lb+ animals. We have plenty of tags dedicated to residents. We would love to have some richer hunters from out west come and win some non resident tags so we don’t always have to guide people from NY, Mass, NJ, CT, RI
Sounds like it is not quite like out here in the west! I would like to get up there to hunt moose someday I have an aunt with a summer home in Maine and also a coworker who lives there and they love it.
Thank you Randy for the great informational video. They should just close the nonresident hunting down. The residents should get all the tags what's left over goes to local outfitters. Cut out all the Elk rut seasons and Deer. There are people who will pay 10 thousand for a tag God's Blessings
I doubt it. The point systems make the states too much money and the people with tons of points would raise a ruckus. I hate point systems, but they are a reality of the landscape.
Randy, I'm changing careers and as a result, won't be able to do a western hunt for about 3 years....I was going to build some points in the meantime but is that not worth it now? Is three points "building" points? I have zero points in any state currently and not really sure how to navigate this whole process as it is, and now with these changes, I'm really not sure how to proceed.
I appreciate your content and many others' that do what you do. It is what inspired me to get into public land hunting. I also agree that exploding populations are a huge contributor to this problem, but it's FAR from the only contributor. There are hundreds if not thousands of videos of content creators complaining about pressure while hunting as well as how difficult it is to draw a tag. When you inspire the masses to get into hunting (like you did for me), you are part of the problem. I don't say that to beat anyone up, but I think it'd only be fair to acknowledge this point in the videos you make about this topic. Thank you for what you do (and I do mean that sincerely)!
I've said the same thing for years, influencers and hunting industry people beg everyone to get into hunting then wonder why there is more pressure and lower draw odds after a few years. there are pros and cons to increasing hunter numbers though, its not black and white
Yes, hunter recruitment is a double edged sword. On one edge we need more hunters for their $ to support Fish & Game managers, buy critical habitat, research and solve disease issues, reintroduce species, etc. On the other edge they drive up competition for tags. Many of us old fudds have been warning about the downside of human population increase since at least the 1960s. And now, with the habitat destruction resulting from more people (housing, highways, water consumption, power creation and consumption, more wild country converted to monoculture agriculture...) we have renewed calls from many politicians for even more people to "keep the economy strong and growing." We can have more people and more manmade habitats (cities, suburbs) or more wildlands and wildlife, but not both. We've made our beds, and now we must lie in them.
It's at the point we're I'm going to have to accept elk hunting is something I won't be able to do every year anymore. I love it, but with the expense and the amount of hunters in the west, it's just the reality. Hopefully set my goal to be able to go every 5 years. Wish I could turn the clock 10-15 years and do a lot more elk hunting. Thanks for the great videos Randy!
I knew all of the WY info and I agree with Randy, burn your points, but one thing Randy did not say that I will is QUIT buying ANY points after as well. These states have been living off NR for years and will continue to screw us by changing things so one way to make the residents cough up more money is stop going there. Most residents seem to want to pay more to not see NR, so..let them bare the cost.
Randy and his crew won't be hunting these states like regular folks for a long time either, you heard him, they all burned points and are starting over. I'm not sure how you have a show if you have no tags...so this will be interesting for sure. Maybe he will start buying outfitter tags and land owner like others do now. I wish you all luck on your draws this year and I hope Randy is wrong about a 4 point creep...that would suck for a lot of people.
Thank you for putting together this content and for your diligence in staying up to date on all of this. As a Colorado resident, and someone who started hunting long after the beginning of the point system, your information helped me understand that I was never going to be able to play the point game. While these discussions are often focused on "point access" at the state level, my reality is that even though I live in Colorado, there are many units in my state that I will simply never be able to hunt. My sympathies for people who have been building points for a decade or more, resident or not, are rather limited. Especially for those who choose not to hunt now in favor of buying points year after year. Foregoing hunting experiences and holding out for that one singular "opportunity of a lifetime" has always been a gamble. And gambles don't always pay off.
I have been able to get an elk tag every year. Sometimes it was only an OTC archery or rifle tag. Not all of those tags were for great units by any means. Some were quite terrible actually, especially for low-population units in worse-than-usual weather years. But I do get to hunt, learn, spend time with friends and family, put some meat in my freezer, and enjoy our public lands. Which I think is what it is all really about.
I am quite curious about your updated public land video Randy. You eluded to the fact that people sometimes try to make the argument that "this is public land so we should all have access to it". That is absolutely true, but access to public land is not the same as access to harvesting wildlife, which is owned and managed by the state. Everyone is entitled to access (most) public land even if they don't hunt, so we should be careful not to conflate land access with wildlife access.
Agree on all those points. That is the premise of the video - there is no connection to land ownership and allocation of hunting tags. Good luck in 2023.
Randy, I personally think that if Colorado would just eliminate OTC Elk hunting and made all those a draw with a large quota and left the R/NR allocations the same it would cause a dramatic slowdown or reversal of point creep after 1 or 2 years. Because right now people buy an elk point AND go hunting. If you went all to a draw, even with large quotas per unit, people would have to buy points OR hunt...not both. So for a couple years the points may go up as people burn then but very shortly people that used to buy a point AND hunt would get tired of not hunting and burn points more regularly. That would fix elk point creep in a couple years. The critical thing for NRs is the allocation. It is interesting because on one hand the CPW depends on the high NR tag sales and high fees to fund their budgets. If they cut out the NR tag allotment after people burn their points on every specie they will be done. I am doing as you say...I am burning my points in WY and CO and then I will sit out for a while and watch. Because 2-3 years after the states cut the NR tags and jack the fees to even more insane levels people will slow down significantly and the G&F budgets will get hammered
I think eliminating the OTC elk tags, and turning them to draw only units that are 0 point draws, it will bring down the point creep in trophy units as well as along with building herd sizes and quality in those units. It’s no longer quality hunting in OTC units because of the mass amounts of hunters we have been seeing. I stopped OTC hunting for this reason, and am stocking up points to hunt a quality unit.
Randy I sincerely enjoy & appreciate your content. The info for the application strategy and behind the scenes issues is very helpful and enlightening. For us from the Midwest the process of hunting out west was so complicated and you along with GoHunt have made it relatively easy. As far as buying points goes, I can only speak for myself. I'm primarily a white tailed deer hunter. Most of my time and resources are put towards that. However I have been applying for elk, mule deer, and pronghorn points in several of the western states yearly. For someone like myself with work and family obligations, I can only afford one of those western vacations every year or two both from a money and a time standpoint. For me building those points makes sense.
Already expensive to hunt. It will become a very rich persons sport.
Already has I live in the midwest and wunting to hunt the rockies but now realizing the cost probably will never happen.
Let me guess now to hunt ill have to approach an outfitter / guide to get a tag and that's way out of my price range and out of most of the guys that like me that work for a living and can't pay 10k to hunt. Well congratulations to the outfitters in making western hunting a rich man's game.
I think a lot of the hunting guys on CZcams were and are kinda naive about how many people will hop in the truck and drive cross county once they literally showed them when and where to go. The numbers of hunters on public land in every state I’ve been in the last few years has absolutely exploded, from Midwest for deer/turkeys to elk in every west state , it’s gotten crazy.
Thanks Randy.
I did try for Idaho. The folks there at fish and game thought it would be funny to redirect me to the end of the line instead of the purchase area. 4 times they did this and finally gave up as they had to phone help either.
The best they can do. Amazing.
So keep us informed so maybe I can try for another state that’s better organized.
Good news. Anything we can do to lessen the commercialization of our natural wildlife would be my goal. The incredible amount of money people are willing to pay for a large elk, Mule deer, etc is sickening. I want people who need meat to be the first to get a tag. Subsistence hunting here in Arizona has gotten more and more difficult. The shenanigans being committed here for an ego rack is pretty sad. I’m an Az native, I refuse to go surrounding states.
amen tired for those trophy chasers who are willing to spend tens of thousands for an animal. do away with the outfitters while there at it.
I live in Colorado and I have 5 points for both elk and antelope. I'm more than likely going to use my points for a 1st season rifle for elk and giving serious consideration to burn my antelope points (maybe archery). I've hunted every year and gained some experience, but haven't gotten an elk yet. This year I was with my buddy and helped him get his first. So I'm hoping to get a decent tag and get my first.
Good luck.
Nevada is getting tough for residents as well. Wildlife populations (ESP. Mule Deer) are under pressure from drought, feral horses (worse than you can possibly imagine), and poor predator control. Money depends on mule deer apps, but the reality is that the mule deer population deserves the management that has been so successful for Elk and Pronghorn. Add population (residents) pressure to the application process, it’s a CF.
There goes all my points !! 13 ELK & DEER 10 ANTELOPE 🔥🔥🔥
🤣
I don't think the change impacts elk or deer as much as the moose/sheep
Thank you Randy! I burned my 11 Wyoming Pronghorn points this year... I'm Definitely burning my 14 Wyo Elk points in 2023! Always just built points. IM JUMPING IN!
I’m glad Idaho reacted when they did. I definitely saw the results this year. I also saw the results when raw land sold near my house to someone from Washington that wants to make it his Idaho “residence” so he can hunt.
Great coverage Randy albeit beating the "burning pts in Wyoming" segment...haha.
Retired military here. Speaking on hunting rights res/non-res, my 78 yr old mother mentioned the other day --- why do those who served active duty military service for 20+ years even have to apply/pay?...in any state? Yes, certain states allow them a "resident" discount but uniform name tag says "U.S." on it. No particular state.
Again great content and I'm looking at my strategy for non-res hunts next year already so this is right on time.
Good luck in 2023.
I don't think you have to worry to much with Utah cutting out of state tags. DWR loves that mad money more than the residents. I have been adhering to the burn your points statement, but they don't want to give me any tags. Randy, thanks for the hard work in putting this information together for us.
Living in Utah in the late 1980's I distinctly remember the change that Utah DWR underwent in switching from the family friendly, pro resident, cultural "right of passage" deer hunt to the "show me the money" pro non - resident tag application system. It RUINED the ability for the creation of family and friend based memories. All for the sake of money!
I couldn’t even draw out for the general muzzleloader and I’m a Utah resident. I went with my buddy who is a dedicated hunter and we talked to a group of guys up on the mountain from California who had 6 tags in camp. Such BS
I hunt deer and elk every year in Utah. Quit complaining. The only reason you don't draw is because you are holding out for a limited tag or apply in general areas that take a few years to draw. I live in Utah and can hunt every year, nobody is buying these whining complaints. Utah DNR is doing a great job considering our ridiculous population growth and less areas to hunt and fewer animals to hunt. Non resident and resident tag numbers are set and non residents get very few tags. Looks at the numbers and quit voicing an opinion that is made up.
@@joshcc1974 l don't know where you are getting tags at. But the only way I can figure you are hunting deer every year is having access to landowner tags. Which needs to end, privatizing a public resource is 🐂 💩 and illegal.
@@louiscapasso4452 I don't buy landowner tags. I get online early and get an over the counter elk tag every year, I then purchase a leftover deer muzzleloader tag when I don't draw, all from the DNR site. You have to spend time figuring out the areas that you pretty much draw every year.
I saw Montana change the out of state tags process; a friend of mine who had hunted 10+ years for deer and had an active "party" was told that he was not getting a tag, and might (emphasis on "might" draw a tag in three years. As he was about 74 when that occurred, that pretty much ended his hunting in Montana.
Great stuff Randy! I really appreciate you sharing all your knowledge on this subject.
Glad it was helpful!
I've always agreed with the "burn your points" idea. Unfortunately it aint that simple (in my world)... for instance, the year you drew your Utah, non resident archery Bison permit, I was right there with you on points. You got the permit, I didn't. The next year perhaps a rifle hunter with max points decided to try archery instead. Again I didn't draw. The same till last year when Utah decided to stop the non resident archery permits and even the resident archers had to hunt in January if they want to hunt with archery only. Who knows what possibilities there will be this coming year. Similar situation for the San Jaun archery elk I've been trying for many years and counting. Statistics always tell me I'm about guaranteed the archery elk permit, (unless a frustrated near max point rifle hunter decides he wants to try that new fangled archery thing) then I get bumped out again 'cause only one or two non resident archers get
to hunt the archery season. ...so even though the "burn your points" idea is valid, it's still a challenge. I always laugh these days at "statistics", "guarantees", "probabilities" etc with a grin on my face. Keep up the great work Randy, I always enjoy your commentaries, articles and videos. Fortunately I live in the great state of Idaho, so I always am able to be blessed with a way above average opportunity to hunt our great rocky mountain country. Merry Christmas sir.
Agree, Neal. I wish it was easy to "just burn" points for some of those species, like moose, goat, sheep, bison. If it was, I wouldn't have 20+ points for some species in many states. Merry Christmas to you, also.
Thanks for the video Randy. Makes me hate being a Michigan resident even more. My heart is out west but my wife’s family is here. I’d move and hunt elk every year at the drop of a hat. So this news is unfortunate, but helpful.
I feel sorry for the people who only make one out of state hunt per year. But for the rapidly growing number of "game hogs' or tag hogs" who make a living hunting as many states as possible to make youtube videos, no sympathy. They helped create this problem!
Two biggies in Colorado. One is the mandated reintroduction of wolfs which will eventually change herd number dynamics. Two is the powers that be at CPW are talking about going to a complete total big game draw system if that happens it will be a total game changer.
I've heard that Colorado is looking at eliminating OTC units.
@@rudyhernandez9947 It's not a rumor. CPW have had open discussions about going to an all-draw system for big game tags. Whether it actually happens & when is yet to be determined.
The Wolves will definitely have a big impact on CO Elk numbers especially when the animal rights groups get court injunction one after another allowing the Wolves to explode and go way beyond agreed upon goals.
It's the outfitters who don't want out of state tag #s cut as per game Warden I spoke with this fall. Not sure why they don't just make a percentage of non-res tags outfitter only.
I hear what you said about Colorado and point creep but with the fact that Colorado implementing the "must purchase a qualifying license" rule... I dont think you'll see as much point creep going forward. Its just too expensive for most people. You have to pay around $100 a year for a elk point, I dont think many people are going to continue to pay that year after year just to keep accumulating points. They are also requiring more historically OTC Archery tag units to now be on a draw system so youll see people have to burn their points to continue to hunt those units as well. I believe the point creep will turn to a point slide in the near future.... hopefully
Thanks for pulling the Fire Alarm. Invaluable
I love you randy, But can your look at the stats. Honestly idaho was OTC but when you started this doing this application/deadline content. Things took off.... not to blame you BUT.. do you think that hunting is a money making main stream now has that made tags have a higher demand????,,
Thank you Randy for doin videos like these. It is so very helpful.
Glad you like them!
My rule has always been simple....if I want a specific hunt in a specific unit, I just apply every year for that hunt in that unit. When I get it, I get it. While I may not be guaranteed to draw it for X number of years, in some States, including mine, I might get the "lottery" draw early. So I stick with what I want, but don't just buy points and camp on them. Actually APPLY for the hunt you want. Yep, it can be a bit of a scramble to put it together when you get a tag without expecting it. Deal with it and be happy for the opportunity.
Good strategy.
A good point and reminder for anyone and everyone. I don’t have more than 4 points in any one state, not because I have burned any but started building points late.
My youngest brother, cousins and uncle suffered through 8-9 hours of the ridiculous chaos that is the Idaho over the internet tag 🏷️ buy. What a horrible system that left 41,000 people that bought a $185 non refundable non resident license 🪪 without a tag 🏷️ since there was 12k elk and 14k deer OTC tags available but 67k people trying to log in and get in line.
I wasn’t able to participate but hopefully 🤞🏻 with 4 points for pronghorn and mule deer 🦌 in Wyoming I will be able to draw a hunt around the same time they are going.
@@davidmerriott7356 ok good to hear that. I know that many were advised to buy the license before hand, even 30 minutes before it started.
I would hate to spend that $185 and not be able to get in the virtual waiting room or line. Thanks for clearing that up.
I got one antelope point in Wyoming. Where's my Zippo?🙁
It's finally coming to light! All those people that you and the other "professional CZcams hunters" told to come on out and hunt and hyped up the sport and made a "school" to learn the arts, they finally showed up and want their turn. I hope you like waiting in line and aren't line jumpers for the sake of views. Time will tell.
I also love how all the professional CZcams hunters hunt multiple states every year paid by sponsors/viewers. Imagine how many other hunters would have the opportunity to hunt if guys like Randy, Cam Hushin, Born and Raised guys only hunted one tag per year like most average guys.
You hit it right on target!
Lmao these guys don’t take THAT many tags from public draw. Relax
@Garrett Keener you do realize that the 70,000 people that were trying to buy a tag on Dec. 1 in Idaho is more then a handful of CZcams hunters. It's time for the wealthy "hunting industry" professionals to sit back and chew on their great success while watching from the sidelines or from a pile of corn down in Texas with the Nuge waiting for a whitetail to come to the feeder for their scheduled feedings.
Sure wish I knew what I just now know know about Wyoming 😏
Thank you for doing what you do ✌️
Colorado weather got into -14° before Christmas in 2022. Tags will reflect this.
I’m a Colorado res and I can’t even get a tag anymore
Heard that in 22 co sold 14000 resident E/S archery elk tags and 18000 non resident! We are getting crushed by non residents out here! Nothing against them but there has too be a limit!
I wish all states would drop the buy a point option.
Same, Idaho’s system is the most fair. I may never get a tag for some of the hunts I want but at least I feel like it’s fair
Yes I think there should be a limit at least on it. I did buy an elk point this year because I still have meat left from last year, when I was lucky to get a tag with no points. I had no idea that so many people buy points for years on end until Randy talked about it in this video.
I'm going to be completely honest with you Randy.. I think the issue is all of the Hunting CZcams channels have contributed to this problem. For years you all have been saying... " If I can do this , You can do this". "Get out there and do it"
Now every single time you guys run into pressure, you guys always complain about the people on public land.
What did you expect would happen.. When dozens of you creators say. "Get out there and hunt the West..
Every single time I here someone say those words I cringe!!!
Randy I really appreciate you and what you do iv been dreaming of a western elk hunt for about 15 years unless I win a million dollar lottery my dreaming just went to hell
Randy, thanks for the wisdom. Guess it’s time to start coonhunting again. Always have the woods to yourself, all the smart people are in their warm beds sleeping. And you can make some cash off the hides. You don’t have to be quiet, scent free or have anything more than a .22 rim fire. Plenty of raccoons in the Midwest.
As a colorado resident, I've seen many changes over the years... Back in the dark ages, I used to just go buy archery elk, deer, bear, etc over the counter for the unit that I really want to hunt now... Now I collect points for that unit for both deer and elk... I wish I was one of those smart people your talking about, Randy. 🙄
Love these videos! Information is priceless
New Mexico change effective 2023. New Mexico ban on scopes for muzzleloader during a muzzleloader hunt.
Went to Colorado this year for 10days. did not see a single Elk, Bear, or Antelope. i did see 10 elk carcass from last year, 6 moose, & a Wolf (witch isnt supposed to be there). ....ill never go back.
I only started hunting four years ago, I don't have enough points to burn yet. Haven't even had an opportunity to get a general Wyoming elk tag yet... I'd like to burn my points, but I don't have enough yet. What a bummer... I'll keep building points in different states and applying, but the future seems pretty bleak for folks like me.
Time to do some research on WY tags and how they work. Prefious CO elk hunter, but now may burn WY points if I learn their tag system.
I don’t blame them for wanting the reduction in NR tags but they should increase residents cost for lost revenue instead of relying on NR funding there state department. Colorado will loose millions if the proposed OTC tag allocation goes through just for archery. In those focus groups residents said they would pay more, but to make it up tags would go up by $100-$300 for them. That won’t happen, they may bump them up some but will increase NR even more to fund their state to make up for the loss.
A video on how many ppl applied in western states now vs 1993 are something like that.
It isn't the locals demanding less nonresident tags. It is all the people who have moved here becoming residents and getting otc tags putting more pressure on herds. Added to that a few hard years dropping herd numbers and all those people moving here building houses in prime habitat, especially wintering grounds and voila you have a decision made to drop tag numbers. Not going to cut the tags of the hand that feeds you first, but be sure residents tag numbers will drop too.
Ha...posted the first comment 10min in before Randy addressed basically what I said.
I’m with this guy. I live in a state everyone is moving to and the amount of new resident hunters dwarfs the total amount of non resident hunters. That being said, I’m still a fan of limiting the amount of non residents. Most of the out of state hunters I see are from states that have the same hunting opportunities they just don’t use them.
I became a Utah resident this year, I love hunting and sorry to contribute to the issue of too many hunters. But it was not my choice to move here.
@@Aerosith Too many hunters is only a problem with outdated management schemes for both animals and hunters. Always good to have more hunters...as long as it isn't in your spot.
I was a CO resident for 54 years before work took me to TX. I was piling up points for a unit 2 either sex tag. Never pulled it as a resident and I am sitting on 26 points for elk and still can't pull that tag. It is getting a little frustrating.
I’ve been planning an elk hunt for my military retirement in area 45 in Wyoming. Last I saw it took 11 points to draw that unit and I can’t afford to go out there. I hope by the time 2033 rolls around there are changes for the better
Don't get your hopes up
I'm from PA and I've bow hunted Colorado every year for the past 25 years. Over the counter Elk and perfectly happy with my success ratio. It wasn't as good the first few years. Keep in mind my plan from the start is to eat the thing so I'll kill a cow on the first day in the first hour. No problem done it many times. Then I go fishing AND that is a great experience in CO. I hunt WY too about every three years and there I hunt rifle with another buddy. He handles that and I think we usually need three points to draw.
I have 5 elk and pronghorn points for Wyoming. I will use them as soon as I can. Especially as being not from the west and now a persona non grata in these states for hunting as a non resident. Funny that my money is always welcomed and sought out by these states and Elk groups. I've always been generous with them but may have to rethink it.
For the last two years, I have drawn rifle tags for cow elk in Wyoming. I have a freezer full of elk meat . . To me, it's hunting with friends and having a fun time. Hope to kill a cow elk next year with my longbow.
@@josephkoziol5421 I absolutely agree. I am using my points on a cow elk hunt. I am the same. Antlers are nice to have but having meat and spending time with friends and family while getting it it's of most value.
I need to learn all this so I'm paying very close attention
Makes me wonder if there is a point where they raise tags so much on NR that their income takes a huge hit due to lack of tags sold. I know the residents would like less NR but where is the dollar per tag where the NR say forget this and then that loss in income burden shifts to the residents. I know it's not there yet even for $1300 or so for a deer tag isn't it but I imagine it starts to get to $2k for deer and a lot more for elk you gotta think the NR will start looking for a different hobby.
Thank you so much for putting these out. Would love to have a little advice on gaining some points in Wyoming for my daughter to hunt Antelope. Long story short, she's 8 now and thinking an antelope hunt would be a good introductory big game animal when she turns 12 to 14 (assuming its something she's still interested in doing when she gets to that age). Would it be worthwhile to start accumulating some points for both of us? Thanks for all the hard work you put into the hunting space! I'm an Idaho resident and can't draw an Idaho speed goat tag to save my life so there is a little selfishness in my question too haha!
Have to be 12 years old by December 31 to buy a license or a point. You could start buying points now, and assuming party applications are still s thing, your average by the time she’s applying would be higher.
Just keep buying points. The way it's going now, she'll prolly be able to draw when she's 20. 🙁
@@phild9813 I thought Wyoming was one they could get points early. Good to know thanks!
Thank you! Great video Randy!
Glad you liked it!
Tried burning my Wyoming points last yr & didn't draw a single tag!
Good luck this year!
I applied for an antelope tag with 9 points and didn’t draw. Now I have 10 points for each deer, elk and antelope.
Here I am with a measly 2 points. Guessing I shouldn’t even bother to apply this year with everyone cashing in their points. I just need to move back to Wy.
Good information Randy. I have 7 elk points in WY and 5 deer points. I was planning to apply for the deer elk combo tag in MT this year but your video has me thinking I should burn points in WY. If I don’t use any WY points this year, will the point creep settle down in a few years. Can a guy wait it out?
Me and my brother had a tradition of going to Montana every year for deer hunting, but the price keeps going up (for the tag/license, not including gas, food, lodging, even camping fees). We finally said, we could go to Hawaii instead, for the same $$, and not deal with this bull****. Hunting has turned into a pissing contest of who has the most money and/or time. I think I'll let Montanans pay their own way. If they think non resident hunters are terrible (which I've been told countless times and ways) just wait until they see what's coming next; it's already happened to the rest of the country; join the club. On that same note; reminder, you can't own a 1000+ acre ranch, drive an $80K truck and be poor. Try living in a rented apartment with a view of a parking lot, and you'll see the difference in lifestyle.
In 2 days 37k people watched this video… The point creep will be so much worse as folks seek to burn their points. So glad we moved out west 3 years ago, finally get to hunt elk every year
No matter how the pie is cut, the problem stems from too much human population. People will move to those states in hopes for better odds. Over time, resident odds will decrease even further. Non-resident odds are sure to be eliminated. One thing's for sure is the squeeze will probably cause an uptrend in poaching.
Pushing me to hunt Canada
Sitting on 15 Wyoming elk points.
Arizona has even changed for resident otc deer tags as well as non residents
They will eventually get rid of otc deer tags. Good news is elk hunting opportunities are increasing.
What are the residency requirements in Montana to be considered "resident"?
So if I am a resident of one of state's you named, and have a bunch of points. Just keep putting in for my hunt... Or should I be looking at a different unit to apply my points to?
Az otc deer getting limited to 10% btw starts Jan 1 23
Hi Randy, What logo is that on your hat? Cheers.
Great info!
Hey Randy what is that top you’re wearing?!
Would it be logical to have a “Federal” based tag system if there are large swaths of Federal lands? That’s the entire nation land, not the states land. If I pay taxes to a federal system then should I have equal access to hunt on that federal land?
This is a terrible idea. What about the private landowners and residents paying property taxes and local taxes contributing to the local economy. Federal land is a patch work and most deer and elk herds wander far beyond federal lands during the winter.
Nope. Wildlife is a state public trust resource. Wildife is owned by the citizens of each state. And it has worked fabulously for wildlife recovery. If you want to find out about what federal control of hunting tags looks like ask an Alaskan about all the areas the feds have closed to hunting.
You do have access to the land. You just don't get access to a tag unless the state that those Federal lands are found in allows you to get a tag. This is the United States where you have a choice to pick a state. Choose wisely!
I don't know if it is logical, but hunter support for public land will fall every time a state takes an action to lock out non-residents. I think we'll see calls to cap resident tags on federal lands if they keep pushing.
@Craig McBrain the states need to take all Federal lands back and manage it all per states rights. The fights gotta start somewhere.
I am brand new and just started buying points in Wyoming this year. A single point in mule, pronghorn, and elk. What should I do? Keep purchasing points or go for a hunt 2023? Do I even have enough points to hunt?
25% of tags are issued randomly, without regard to points, so yes, you always have a chance in Wyoming. Keep applying every year and hope you get a random tag, and keep buying points if you are interested in eventually hunting in Wyoming.
@@Fresh_Tracks thank you!!
There goes nonrez hunts in general between the percentages and the cost increases… it’s only a matter of time when you won’t be able to hunt at all in some of these states…
If the state cuts non resident tags...Well they need to cut Federal funds to that state. To the same percentage.
Yes, many of these Western States get 30 to 50 % of their budget monies from nonresidents(Federal Taxes).
You always hear that hunting is losing hunters every year, that the youth aren't getting involved. Maybe the Midwest and the rust belt, but to your point out West, it's crazy. Colorado is an absolute mess with its tags. Any Out of state hunters can come buy a tag over the counter....now that's nuts if you think about that. They have also changed archery hunting from mainly OTC and are trying to make it draw only while they allow unlimited rifle tags in some of the same units (including out of state) it's honestly all about the revenue. Colorado Park and wildlife have a lot of anti hunters involved, and this adds a wrinkle that is not seen to the public. One other thing is out Governor who's husband is anti hunting as well are trying to remove cat hunting and trapping, but since the wolf's are coming back, they have backed off.
If you have points in Colorado and hunt vail to Glenwood springs or Monarch to Gunnison, you have 2-3 years before the wolves will start affecting your hunting experience.
Thanks Randy, I liked you when I first ran across you on Team elk and really appreciate how humble of a man you are. Stay healthy brother!!
Well that was not fun to hear. Though I was not surprised. Not sure how I will get to hunt with my son in a western state as we had hoped to when he is old enough in 3 years
There is absolutely zero wrong with residents trending tag allocation towards residents from non.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!
Wish this video would have came out a tad sooner. I would have wasted my Wyoming points instead, but I was able to get a great Idaho elk tag. Way i see it there is more than just elk to hunt out west. If i wasn't spending my money on western outdoor activities I would still be smoking cigars. Now thats burning money
Good job
Just renewed my Insider. Can't say enough good about the mapping. Thanks for the advice on points. Gonna listen and act.
If you apply for WY special draw, are you automatically added to the regular draw if you don’t draw in the special?
No
It’s true the trends will lean toward favoring residents, but the fact of the matter is these western states wildlife agencies simply cannot continue to exist without a certain amount of license sales, application fees…etc… from non residents. Look at my home state of Montana. Block management would not exist without a certain number of non resident license sales. It’s more complicated than just cutting out non residents more and more. It’s not sustainable
Thanks Randy! For Wyoming, what would you do with only 4 points?
General tag.
What species?
@@phild9813 elk
Elk
Thanks.
Not only getting harder and harder, but more expensive and more expensive. These states got it figured out how to get your MONEY!!! All this is about MONEY. YOUR MONEY.
Saved 12 points and they paid off in 2020
Lost 9 deer points in Wyoming this year by becoming a resident.. I’m not sure if I want to cry sad tears or happy tears.
@@zachcragoe need deer ? Come to Wisconsin..! I have enough deer hit by cars in my front yard to supply many !!!
I live in Colorado. I got no problem at all with non-residents. How arrogant and unfair to think just because you happened to be birthed somewhere that you have some special “right” to hunt there and some guy from another state shouldn’t be allowed to come enjoy the beautiful state you call home. That’s selfish nonsense.
What would help is 1) cap or completely eliminate OTC tags, 2) remove the points system and make it like Alaska where everyone has the same chance to draw, 3) reduce non-resident allocations to 20%.
There are other ways that would work too but that would start it. None of that would happen in CO though because they love the unlimited OTC tag revenue. Wolves also don’t have to apply for tags!
I’m sure the outfitters on the hunting boards for Wyoming and every other state have the resident Hunter in mind😂😂😂😂. Every law they’re gonna push for is going to make sure they get more guaranteed tag so they can lease up more land which will drive more and more hunters onto the limited Public
Yup. That is why I commented against that Wyoming proposal when it was before their committee. I hope others did the same.
ONLY IN BC...we have to count the points on antlers...and measure them before we put a bullet into the animal... oh, and ONLY IN BC do we count the points on one side... so if there are 2 points on each side...it is not a 4 point.... EVERY OTHER PROVINCE in Canada who allows harvesting of big game animals...if it has antlers and you have a legal tag...you can harvest the animal
Thx for the info!
Just so I'm clear on what I'm supposed to do...was it burn my points or burn my Legislator? Lol
I'm one of the guys sitting on max Wy deer pts! Once I do burn them I can assure you I won't be doing it again in Wyoming!
The irony of this video just blows me away. Here we have an influential hunting personality sharing tips on how to overcome the lack of tags available to nonresidents, while simultaneously promoting the act of applying for as many tags as possible. You can't make this stuff up! Not only that, this video is sponsored by a company that profits from people gobbling up as many tags as possible. Stop giving your money and time to these people before the resource is completely gone!
Ever apply for Maine Moose. Best bang for your Buck, Dollar per pound hunt in the US.
I'm sure the people of Maine appreciate you saying so...
@@wescollins23 we got so many moose and a guide will gladly take you out and make money. Without the equipment and man power you ain’t getting a thousand pound animal out of the woods. There is no way you can fly in and hunt them without a guide. You could drive a properly equipped truck across the country but if you aren’t prepared you will be stuck in the woods alone with multiple flats and a moose you can’t recover in knee deep swamp as you get what meat you can. With a guide you drop it, pull it, gut it, load it, tag it and haul it out to a real butcher shop that handles 1000 lb+ animals. We have plenty of tags dedicated to residents. We would love to have some richer hunters from out west come and win some non resident tags so we don’t always have to guide people from NY, Mass, NJ, CT, RI
Sounds like it is not quite like out here in the west! I would like to get up there to hunt moose someday I have an aunt with a summer home in Maine and also a coworker who lives there and they love it.
Thank you Randy for the great informational video. They should just close the nonresident hunting down. The residents should get all the tags what's left over goes to local outfitters. Cut out all the Elk rut seasons and Deer. There are people who will pay 10 thousand for a tag
God's Blessings
And you must be horrible at business and only hunt in your state.
Randy, do you think that eventually every state will go the way of New Mexico, with random draws and no point system?
I doubt it. The point systems make the states too much money and the people with tons of points would raise a ruckus. I hate point systems, but they are a reality of the landscape.
Randy, I'm changing careers and as a result, won't be able to do a western hunt for about 3 years....I was going to build some points in the meantime but is that not worth it now? Is three points "building" points? I have zero points in any state currently and not really sure how to navigate this whole process as it is, and now with these changes, I'm really not sure how to proceed.
You should build points, but burn your points as soon as you have enough for a hunt and the time to go do it.
Randy when you say Burn Points you are cashing them in for your premium tag...burn no....use yes.
I think he is mainly speaking to non residents. But even then, do your homework and pick a tag that you can get before you are too old
I’m a Wyoming resident… what does this mean for us.
Better odds for you. Good luck in the draw.
22 sheep points in Wyoming 27 points in Arizona 23 points in home state of Colorado still can’t draw a sheep tag ?
I hope they take your points in 2023.
I guess I was pretty lucky drawing sheep first time applied in NM