What's Happening to Drum Corps?
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Cadets Suspend Competition:
cadets.org/cadets-suspend-com...
Southwind Folds:
southwind.org/news/southwind-...
Vanguard Returning:
www.scvanguard.org/vmapa-anno...
Reddit Post Vanguard NonMember:
/ vanguard_expected_too_...
Vanguard Delinquent with Charity Renewal CA:
rct.doj.ca.gov/verification/w...
Exact Vanguard Renewal Documentation:
rct.doj.ca.gov/verification/w... - Hudba
Marching with Northern Lights DBC this summer opened me up to alternative models for drum corps into the future. We only had like eight rehearsals and our corps only totaled about 40 members. Our horns were all second hand and our drums came from Michigan Tech (which I was surprised even had drums) but we showed up to Soundsport and did really well. Most of all, I only $150 in dues. Sure, it's not the full tour experience and we were definitely no world or even open class corps, but it was a great time and a great way to perform in Indy.
I'm coming around to the idea that DCI's survival (and maybe even revival) will center around smaller corps with more limited schedules and tours in conjunction with 20ish open in world class corps.
Same lol (zephyrus)
same (gems) @@jonnjonn8982
In 1989, Bill Cook- the fine gentleman who founded Star Of Indiana, offered all top 12 corps that year enough cash to start their own independent bus companies as a means to generate revenue for a lifetime and use the buses and drivers to defray summer touring costs.
Everyone responded “no thanks, we like our bingo”…..
Star pulled out a few years later, and about half of those 12 corps may not even make it to the field next year.
Yep, and DCI punished and brutalized Star of Indiana to the point they had to leave. I marched Madison in the late 80s/early 90s and became a HUGE Star fan. I was devastated when they left. Now I think it was the smartest decision they ever made.
@@totesgene bummer, i really liked star's run, was the reason people star was the corporate aspect? like the idea that they got all their funds from Cook's medical and rose to prominence quicky? while every other corp took decades to build up? please correct me if im wrong
You have any proof of that? He was very generous and I have no doubt that he offered to give them the business plans to do this BUT - I am very certain that he did not offer every drum corps CASH to start bus companies. (Because he was a SMART businessman and realized some of them would piss it away to try to win drums.) Bingo was already a non-starter on the East Coast because of local/state laws. Sorry but Bill Cook for all of the good he did, was not the spurned savior of drum corps people make him out to be. On top of that.... his son who got him into drum corps has not returned to lead everyone to the promised land either. The Cook family came, they saw, they bailed and I don't blame them. So we have a clear problem with non-program revenue that is only resolved by having outside sources of income. Crown has Crown Tickets. BD had BD Entertainment. Cadets had US Bands. Boston has a huge board with DEEP financial ties. Those business models are the only sustainable way to fund a World Class Drum Corps.
@@totesgeneyeah they “punished and brutalized” Star in those last several years when they came in 2nd, 1st, 3rd and 2nd.....🤦♂️🙄🤷♂️
@@brianprato647 yeah it is not accurate, he was very generous - but this offer / refusal rumor never happened.
DCI needs a Netflix docuseries
March to survive
It’s Netflix, already more than enough crap on there as is. 👍
I think it is money. It is getting very expensive to put a corps on the field for the summer. When a young man or woman wants to go to college, they have to make a choice. Summer job, or drum corps? There is no right or wrong answer. What would you pick?
The answer for most of us is a job, unless you want to have a very difficult year.
@@Z6D4C4drum
The better option is to grow up and get a job. I wanted to march dump corps so badly but if I didn’t get a job I would not be able to afford school
When you look at the sheer number of instruments in the pits, compared to the 1980s, add to that the amplification and the prerecorded nonsense that does nothing to the experience except make it loud, and finally realize that it takes one whole truck just to wrangle the field chachi, you have something that is so expensive that it's no wonder there are corps pulling out and folding.
I’m a 90’s alum…on the fulcrum being a “Dino”. It’s not about instructional staff costs, electronics, props, costumes…it’s Gas, Food, and Lodging costs that are uncontrollable. Consumable costs are not going down
Regional touring will not solve the issues, you still need lodging and food between show dates.
The end is in front of us, sadly…and there may be no avoiding it
Back in the old old days. Easton Pa. Chessmen took kids off of the street taught them how to play an instrument. That was the true origin of Drum & Bugle Corps....
Weeeeell, the origins of drum & bugle corps actually go all the way back to old military tactics before slowly detaching itself from its military roots. 🤓
But I do understand what you mean.
I remember when ESPN used to broadcast DCI on their networks. I really miss those days.😢
Wow....I marched from 76-84 (81-84 in DCI semi finals or finals) and fund raising was always tough but the out of pocket cost today is nuts.....I don't know how any groups does it
2 things in my opinion has led us to this moment. 1) drum corps stopped entertaining audiences and focused on entertaining themselves. The only reason to go to a show is to be entertained. Some productions are so over the top that they are boring. 2.) World Championships only in Indianapolis. Back in the day, world championships were held in different cities across the country. It introduced drum corps around the country and broadened the audience. Like someone else said in the comments, people don’t know what drum corps is.
You clearly didn’t see the same corps I saw this summer…
Drum Corps never entertained audiences. Its fans have always been generated from its membership and their families. There was never a point where drum corps had a fan base who went to shows to be entertained. Its audience was always there to support the participants or were former members.
I couldn't agree more. #1 is driven by self-indulgent self-righteousness and #2 was driven by insanity (Hey, let's pick the most boring city in the US that no one would every go to otherwise, and put DCI there every year for a quarter of a century! Oh, and let's also make it just about the only show anyone has ever been to that's indoors! Oh, and since it's indoors, we should use ginormous sound systems and sythesizers cuz drums and brass are so 1990's. We must "evolve"!). Just brilliant.
Indy is a good city for finals but it is also driving the problem. Many Indiana schools are starting way early (before finals) meaning corps cannot house at school. This is causing them to rent out hotels for finals week. Rooms for 300 people plus a practice facility rental is expensive.
@@gsensel And apparently DCI reacted to this problem by signing an agreement to stay in Indy for another decade. It is quite something to watch an activity be driven off a cliff in slow motion while most people currently involved deny there is a cliff.
Two words. Cost cap. Forget about paying a zillion dollars on show design, music arrangements, percussion writers, drill designers, and rehearsal staff. Themed costumes for every season. Using five flags for each movement. For gosh sakes, the cost of props and fabrication. If you want to survive, you've got to balance those expenses with where the revenue comes from to pay for it all.
I was thinking of something similar so it doesn’t become what professional sports now are. There would have to be some consideration for cost differences in local economies though, like BD and SCV.
I was thinking the same thing and this would also help the competitive aspect since corps like BD won’t have a huge financial aspect compared to other corps
Ok but what % of their annual budget goes to props? Surely getting rid of props won't magically change the other massive financial strains present on 2023.
Drum corps has gentrified itself out of existence. Drum corps was a youth activity that grew itself with the bodies of lower socioeconomic kids and non professional instructional staff.
Now, the kids that can pay don't make space for the kids that can't pay for the 100 member staff with PhDs and 6 figure salaries. Adding to this: blaming the economic burden of "food and gas" is dishonest. When a corps fundraises to replace their instruments, costumes, electronics and props every season, that adds up to much more than "gas to get down the road". The transportation cost myth is beneficial to the "auteurs" that are making money, hand over fist, from pageantry. Personally, I am 100% behind the evolution of the activity into something unique and new-but we done goofed.
The Transportation cost of food and gas alone account for about 50% or more of costs that corps incur on a given season. Uniforms while costing corps some money are done so at massive discounts are typically sold to high school programs after a single season which offsets that cost. Additionally Instruments are also sold. As for electronics they can get pricey which is why most corps actually rent equipment per season rather than purchasing outright. The three biggest cost for corps right now are Food, Gas, and Housing.
The only think I'll agree with is the sentiment on props. Having to lug around an extra truck for props is thousands down the drain. Especially when certain corps have MULTIPLE semi's just for props.
How about moving your Corps further away from your alumni base and having NO SHOWS in your state or area where Corps originated
Cadets from where Erie
When I marched they were from NJ
@@CJsMusicTrumpet Food prices certainly have jumped since the pandemic, but don't blame gas prices. Adjusted for inflation, they are lower now than in 1980. And even though busses guzzle gas, they probably don't guzzle gas as badly as an old bus in 1980 did, either.
95% of staff barely get paid
It's a rich kid sport now. I will always be grateful for my time in DCA. It was affordable and I could keep a job.
Luckily I am a percussionist and can recommend WGI for my students. Even though the cost is comparable to DCI, they can still keep a job and come home at night.
Regional organizations (DCM, DCE, DCW) and tours need to make a comeback. Another person hit the nail on the head with the word 'gentrification' - a lot of the financial wounds are self-inflicted through absurd productions. Evolution in the activity was/is a good thing, but you can't evolve if you are dead.
Well with DCA folding/merging into DCI-All Age who knows what’s going to happen now
I don't think DCI has the number of corps now to sustain the regional circuit model. WGI's circuit model works due to the number of scholastic groups involved. If you look at Sprit's spending report they released you will see that the majority of the operating budget is spent on travel, food and housing. If you want to reduce costs you would need to reduce the days on the road. If you can't reduce costs you need to increase revenue. (Econ 101) The challenge is to find sustainable revenue streams. I am not sure that Drum Corps have expertise in this area.
The whole point of Dci was to do away with the other circuits. They got wackjobs the likes of Hopkins to completely run everything into the ground and then build it back up in their vision, just a gay broadway theme production.
See the other comment I posted on the subject.
I marched in DCM and DCE during my time and they were incredibly corrupt, and were not run well at all. Monies were not allocated fairly, and show as would be cancelled on a whim and many corps were left without making any money at shows.
Regional touring may save on fuel, but it will not save on lodging and food.
This the inevitable outcome of the self-imposed death-spiral that DCI has seemingly been unable to entangle themselves from for years now. When those of us who have multiple decades of history in the activity ever voiced opposition to the current trends that predictably led to this, or ever dared to point out the obvious writing on the wall, we were almost universally shouted down and ignored. Over the years, DCI has failed miserably at retaining support from many of the very people who are quite literally responsible for the activity even making it to the 21st century. The average person on the street has literally no idea what DCI even is. Most musicians literally have no idea what DCI even is. If you don't believe that, then you're living inside a drum corps bubble-and that's where much of the problem lies. Drum corps existed long before DCI came into being, and so perhaps its time for the next phase. The current model is not sustainable, and if the "leaders" of the activity can't recognize that then they have no business being at the helm.
Well said. When I marched Madison (late 80s, early 90s) it seemed everyone in Madison knew who we were. When we went to Europe in '88 it was like we were the Beatles with the craziness that ensued. Nowadays, people have a puzzled look on their face if I mention this activity.
I'm a young person and I have friends my age that have marched or are currently marching, and I CAN'T AGREE MORE. There is definitely an unhealthy bubble around people in the community, and part of the issue is that if you haven't actually marched or marched long ago, you are looked down on when you voice your opinion. And to be honest (and this isn't a bad thing, it's just how money works), the people that actually keep drum corps going are the alumni/older fans. Teenagers through college kids just don't have the money to donate back and support the organization (hell many can't even afford to march). So while the evolution of drum corp is important and exciting, the alienation of older fans and alumni isn't just something to be shrugged off - those are the people with actual full time jobs that can support these groups. Corps need to seriously re-evaluate how the more expensive and out-there shows of today affect the support of their biggest financing group.
What??? As if drum corps would be a massive cultural phenomenon if it only continued to look and sound like it did in 1968. This is some next level genius.
@@alexkebret5356 Yeah, of course that's not what I said. But keep impressing yourself with the deep insight.
@@jacquesdemolay5171 Sure, it's just the obvious implication of your banal rambling
Uniform costs/staff sizes/costs, show design, etc...ALL of the normal bugaboos aren't really the issue. Drum corps has been a house of cards for several decades -- corps were failing for poor finances LONG before I marched in 84. It just took this long -- and Covid and the cost increases it brought to the table on things TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL of the corps -- for the foundations to crumble, exposing a lot of orgs that barely held on my their fingernails in GOOD times.
Corps don't control food costs, insurance, fuel (and please stop saying DCI should negotiate with fuel companies...the or3g have NEVER had that kind of pull), transportation,and the like. If those costs increase, too bad.
What they have NOT done for the most part is adapt to those conditions -- looking at YOU, Vanguard -- and hope the old ways would continue to work.
HOW these corps deal with it when it hits the fan is important.
SCV is a shit show...almost House Repulicans-bad.
Spirit (and other corps) has other issues of member treatement that continue to plague the activity as a whole.
Cadets have taken the CORRECT path here...no money to tour this season, DON'T TOUR. Take the year off to recover so you can survive and come back next season.
I see Cadets returning....SCV is a far more iffy deal.. Frankly, I would not be surprised if they fold entirely if they can't find a way to field this season.
The activity will survive ONLY if the directors AS A WHOLE make changes to how the overall org operates....it has become unsustainable.
If they don't, we may not HAVE a corps activity in the near future.
Over 15 years ago i actually spoke to one of the board members. He said they spend a million dollars each year and that was 15 years ago. Insane. I hope the activity and corps can figure out something that is sustainable. I believe in the activity. But, it has drifted in a direction that is more expensive than it used to be.
Same thing that happens when you just keep throwing money at things. It gets worse. Drum
corps used to be local programs for youths during the summer. Now it’s new everything year in, year out. Drum corps should revisit its roots.
Drum Corps is a luxury. Luxury will suffer under a bad economy.
To parrot your point about money- I've worked full time for four summers (in a low minimum wage state so it wasnt great pay) but with the money I earned, I plan on marching. If i didnt have an incredible financial support group to help me with college i would not be able to march this activity. And I'd like to think I'm more fortunate with my working discipline. What about everyone else who cant set aside $5000 for even one summer to experience the corps lifestyle? I really hope something changes soon and a renaissance occurs
I’m paying for school with only fafsa and I’m working 3-4 days a week so I can march, due to other things I’m thinking of waiting until 2025 for my rookie year but yeah, I could pull it off this year if I tried. I think with good planning it’s still possible for kids who aren’t rich, but it shouldn’t be this difficult. By doing this, I’m actually letting go of what kids my age should be saving up for, ex a car...
Im at a community college rn, I wanna figure out if I can pull this off when I’m at university and make sure I march my age out.
It's tough because the Cadets are the reason I fell in love with the activity and inspired me to march in DCI.
What I feel about drum corps since 2014 is that it's nowhere near what it was. OK, you can call me that 'old drum corps guy' if you want, but it's true. Since I've been living overseas for the past ten years, I've only been able to follow drum corps every season on youtube, the DCI website, and occasionally FloMarching. I came home to visit this past summer and caught my first live show since 2013 (I saw Crown that year when they came to California). Although I enjoyed myself at the Rose Bowl, I didn't get that big thrill like I used to. Most of the shows, while performed well, were just kind of boring. The only corps I even gave a standing O for that night was Gold. I didn't even stand up for Pacific Crest, the corps that I had marched with in 2003. I had to keep checking the line-up to see who was next because I couldn't tell who anyone was anymore with their unrecognizeable "uniforms". Modern drum corps doesn't have that excitement for me like it did in the past, though I understand it does for other people, and I can respect that viewpoint. However, I feel that DCI and drum corps itself won't last much longer if trends continue on like this. Just my two cents on this matter. Hope the Cadets can come back for 2025, looking like the Cadets we have all known and loved for so long.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was really into drum corps in the 80s. The Garfield Cadets, as they were known then, were my favorite and the one my high school marching band modeled after. They actually stayed in our band room when they came through our city for a DCI contest in 1983. I also loved Santa Clara Vanguard. Once I got into college and then into the working world I fell out of touch with DCI until around 2012 when I went to DCI South in Atlanta. How Carolina Crown didn't win it all that year was beyond me. But I also noticed a drop in general crowd enthusiasm from when I had been to shows in the 80s. I found myself feeling like I was being "inappropriate" for cheering for all the great performances instead of just cheering wildly only for my favorite corps like a lot of people do now. Even when I listen to the audio recordings from the 80s compared to now, you can hear the difference in overall crowed enthusiasm and excitement. The one exception I can cite is when I went to the 2018 DCI World Championships for my first and only time. I purposefully did not watch any corps that year until I got to the championships open pre-lims. When I saw Santa Clara perform, I turned to my wife and said, "They are going to win it!" The entire crowd went nuts for their performance that year, but I did not see that response to any other corps that year. One of my favorite shows of ALL TIME!!!
Great video and for those that cannot pay attention to all of the particulars within DCI, this was a great notice and overview, and hopefully will bring more attention and potential solutions to the front.
When I marched my age out year in 1994, my tour dues, marching shoes, uniform deposit, and preseason camp fees totaled $835.00, then my total expenses during tour was $1,200.00. That $1,200.00 was food, souvenirs at shows and laundry expenses. In all my expenses were $2,035.00 for the whole year. Since I aged out I saw DCI become more about money with rising dues and less about advancing the education of the kids with far easier music. I got a copy of a Division 1 corps snare show music and SIGHT READ the snare part perfectly. Within a week I had the whole show memorized and was ready to field it with drill. Back in the 80’s and 90’s, you couldn’t do that because back then, the activity was about advancing the member’s abilities on their instrument and less about money. I personally blame in part George Hopkins for this change as the Cadets were at that time the highest tour fee Corp in DCI and their dues raised every year by $100.00 to $500.00.
sounds like this country. profit matters, and not a single other thing does at all.
I also marched mid to late 90s and I remember a girl coming back to the bus after a show and telling a group of us that her friend in Cadets said that they were paying $1,200 to march. (I'm assuming that was just the tour fees, not camps or anything else) We were horrified because a lot of us had a hard time coming up with the $800-something we were paying for tour. That was a lot of money back when minimum wage was $4.25 an hour.
I never even thought of adding up what I spent on camps plus all the tour expenses. (I guess I didn't want to think about what I was really spending to fry myself in the sun for three months and come home completely broke.) I do remember dropping down to part-time in school second semester every year the last three years I marched, so I could work more to pay my tour dues while still coming up with rent, tuition, utilities, groceries, etc. My logic was that you can only march for a certain number of years, but they'll let you finish college any time.
My guess is that Covid dealt a severe financial blow and they still haven’t recovered. Frankly, it is impressive that any of the corps have been able to still compete.
Jeff Bezos needs to give all those trillions back to DCI!!!
Ty for sharing about VMAPA's delinquency. I was the first to discover this and point it out to fellow alum and we've faced nearly non stop backlash from them ever since. The truth hurts but it must be told.
Remembering when drum corps were scout troops, VFW posts, community groups, etc. Everyone went to performances including area parades. Where are they NOW?
Last time I saw GREEN CAVALIERS was at Dick tracy days in Harvard Ill some 30 years ago.
Can't remember when , but did see ALL drum corps in a parade from Chicago area. DAMN WHAT A SHOW!
As someone who was involved in the Oregon Crusaders back in 2010-2015, I can attest to how difficult it is to be financially responsible to sustain the year after year operations of a drum corps. OC was not able to sustain the growth that was required to be competitive once they moved up to world class. In hind sight, maybe it was not a good idea. But who knows. So many factors went into the development of the corps that it was always a challenge. But I can say this. I wasn’t there for the last few seasons, but when the membership started shifting from mostly kids from Or,WA and ID, it became much more financially challenging.
It's a sad day for sure but I almost have to chuckle. Every time one of us "old People" made a comment about how this isn't Drum Corps any longer we got ridiculed and laughed at. What do you think was going to happen??? I know things change and I except it HOWEVER how much does it cost to put on one of these lavish productions? By the time you pay staff, change uniforms every year, build new props every year, equipment changes every year, travel etc it wasn't IF you were going to put yourself out of business but WHEN!! It's sad because some of my most memorable memories I have are from Drum Corps. I have friends from the 70's that I keep in contact with all because of Drum Corps. Unfortunately in my opinion you tried to get to big and over the top and no you can't continue to survive with this lifestyle!!!
I chuckle that you think anyone would watch drum corps if still looked and sounded like it did in the 70s
@@scottyt5918 Scotty you got it all wrong!! READ what I said!! In no way did I say I want Drum Corps to go back to the 70's.. My point is get rid of some of the broadway stuff. When you need a trailer just to hall props you've gone to far. You have to pay a crew just to be in charge of that stuff and you're putting yourself out of business!!! DCI's to biggest and most successful Drum Corps are out of business because of cost!! So my point is scale it back so you can survive!! By the way i'm huge fan of the Cadets and had a friend that marched during 3peat!! I'm crushed I won't see them next year!!
@@actionandy4480Lol, your wasting your time with these people. Dollars to donuts at least 2 more cores go before springtime.
I’m hearing a lot of rumblings about Cavaliers lately, they’re probably next domino to fall.
In total agreement with you. It's amazing how the cost of putting on a mini traveling broadway show year in and year out goes totally over the heads of some people. Stuff ain't free. People found a way to make careers for themselves after aging out, which I believe has naturally lead to ever-increasing expenses for the activity as a whole. Add to that the lawyers getting involved with copyright laws and such to even play some of the music on the field. Comes down to way too many people trying to turn DCI into their personal golden gooses. I really hate seeing the inevitable coming to fruition, and I hope this provokes some serious, deep rethinking what they want DCI to be moving forward.
@@DisabusingTheLeft Yes! You too can achieve your financial goals by working for far less than minimum wage in the hottest growing sector of the American economy, marching band.
Thank you so much for the subject coverage. I marched in the 70s and 80s and drum and bugle corps were folding then, because of the high cost of fielding a corps. Back then it took about a quarter million dollars to field a corps. Now that wouldn’t get you anywhere. I love modern day D.C.l. as both an art form and a sport, but the cost is too high to operate such an organization at world class levels let alone become a member of such an organization. Does modern technology have a solution? Could we possibly stream regional competitions via Internet with greater and easier exposure than the streaming movie system used today? I don’t know, but the cost of fielding a drum corps, it’s just too high and the participants are the ones who suffer. The lessons I learned in drum corps. I use to this day in my daily life. It truly would be a shame for young persons to miss out on such a great activity.. thank you for the video
Sadly, this was entirely predictable. The people who have run drum corps for the last 20 years created this situation. DCI in the 80's and 90's was incredible. Then the 2000's arrived and the new blood thought; This activity should "evolve". And so it did. So sad.
bro if you're saying dci folded because they wear costumes and do more choreography, I would recommend getting your brain checked. If that's not what you're talking about though do please tell me what has changed in terms of financial sustainability over the last 20 years, like be more specific
@@justinjohnson4278 Given that you first set up a straw man and graciously suggested I get my brain checked, I decline your gracious request to get into any sort of discussion.
@@justinjohnson4278turns out that most people who watch drum and bugle corps like drums and bugles. i don't wanna watch a bunch of guys doing yoga in spandex with a bunch of electronic sounds. i wanna hear big chords and see cool forms.
Sure, DCI definitely didn't "evolve" one bit in the 80s and 90s. Virtually no difference between Vanguard's 1973, 1989 and 1999 shows
@@scottyt5918 The inability of people to make an argument without straw-manning stuns me. There certainly was evolution between pre-1980 and post-1980-or-so. (And being pedantic about it, of course there was a spectrum of evolution going on every year). But I didn't say anything about the 1970's so I'm not sure why you brought it up except to think you made some great point by referring to an era which is clearly bygone. Letting go of single valve bugles and militaristic straight lines brought the activity in line with the modern era. The changes made roughly since 2000 haven't done anything except make the activity nearly indistinguishable from better marching bands and thus, entirely irrelevant. Well done! Now let's sit back and see which corps dies next while you argue that nothing went wrong.
Thanks for posting! My vote is for some more front ensemble (or full percussion) videos. There was a noticeable lack of content this past summer.
The entire concept of drum corps started with parades. It's supposed to be something where you put on a uniform, get an instrument, and play as a mobile group. The music should be able to stand on its own without a huge amp setup and 5 drum majors. And it was the perv from Cadets that was responsible for much of this, so as much as I feel for every Cadet and especially everyone that GH got to, that org was eternally burdened with that issue. I'm surprised it continued as long as it has. Either way, if the cost of competing doesn't go down, the number of corps will.
Oh wow😢so sorry to hear this news. I'm glad i got to see the Cadets. I know,i love BD first but Cadets are my other favorites. Now the Sky Ryders were in the audience this 2023 DCI and im stoked that they announced a come back. I'm a Pennsylvania born girl. I wish the best for the Cadets. Also, when i purchase from the DCI store,does it go to help in situations like this? I know money is really tight. I hope there will be a way to save the corps. Its like DCI needs its own side businesses such as farm,grocery store,etc.Thank you so much🥁💙
I marched at DCI Finals in '87, '91, & '92 for a grand total of $950 for all three seasons.
Of course, it was less expensive back then because all the sound was produced by my lungs, not Shure and Bose.
Audio tuned by my damn ears and lungs. Love this got me cracking up.
And your corps was undoubtedly run like Sea Org but sure, it's the amplification driving up the costs
@@alexkebret5356 Yes, "run like Sea Org", that's a perfect description of the Velvet Knights! 😂
If they still used bugles they would not need all-of the amps and synth sludge
Yes, money. My corp folded in 86 because a backer backed out. I marched 27 in 79 and 80. Wjat is neede is more corpirate sponsorships. More publicity and not just instrument manufactures but big corporations. Coke for example.
the activity has flown far, far too close to the sun.
I'm hoping that with all-age getting folded into DCI, people can think through other models than a national tour. It's a *lot* to ask of broke high school and college kids. But doing a weekend corps is still a really fulfilling experience.
Unfortunately I believe DCI won’t be a thing in the future. The costs are just too much and its only going to get worse
What’s happening to drum corps? Well, it’s the product. The don’t march anymore. The run around the field, seemingly haphazardly. Lean to the left. Lean to the right. Tilt their shakos in random directions. No sense of precision in guardwork….it’s all free form and ballet. They put on a good show, but I really miss the old real precision in marching and guard work. Just think of Lancers 1980!!! What an amazing show!
Yeah, I’m not sure what the answer is, but hearing about the Cadets was as much of a gut punch as SCV last year. 😢
We can certainly blame Covid and inflation. But to a very large extent, DCI has done this to themselves. In the name of "innovation" drum corps has morphed into an outdoor version of WGI, complete with expensive electronics, building-sized props, and new uniforms (costumes) every year. Who can afford to do all that at scale every season?
I grew up in the 80's and was good enough to play in any corps I wanted, but my parents couldn't afford to send to me Bergen County or Rosemont, so played in my local drum corps and loved every minute of it. Drum corps has never been cheap, but it used to be an accessible activity for the masses. Now it just for the rich kids.
The beginning of the end started in the 70s, we are now at the end of the end. I see the issue as the top corps only caring about themselves and not about the health of the activity as a whole:
1. No random performance order. This gives the top corps the last performance slots at every competition throughout the summer allowing them more rehearsal time. We all know, practice makes perfect and the more practice you have the more perfect you get.
2. Staff. The numbers on staff these days are completely insane. It's boarding on ridiculousness. A huge additional expense.
3. Props and Electronics. I love how this activity has modernized, I really do. I love props, I love electronics and I'm crazy nuts about trombones. Yes, props and electronics are a relatively low expense on the budget sheet, but it's still and expense and having an extra vehicle to tote all of this crap around all summer is a huge cost.
4. Increased Membership. This not only adds to costs but it, again, benefits the top corps the most, taking talent from those beneath them.
All of this removes the element of fairness in competition. DCI should create a maximum budget, like a salary cap. They should return to random draws for performance order, based on class, with the home corps going on last. They should reduce the membership load of each corps. Now we are punishing a corps that is trying to come back (Vanguard). So they'll perform 1st at every show and reportedly get no performance fees. That's BS.
I'm so angry at the top corps for being so selfish and greedy. The corps should have input into what happens in this activity, but they shouldn't be running it. What an EPIC failure.
You got a whole staff to teach all summer? I have yet to meet people above the age of 25 free all summer to teach.
Go back to straight up music and marching and ditch the traveling mini broadway show productions. Building, maintaining and hauling all the staging and props could shed costs for corps. I know the activity changes over time, but sometimes simpler is better in the long run.
I really hope this is not the beginning of the end for many other drum corps.
Sadly I think it is
Asking for a friend would a Corps carry a Chinese flag for money. A disgrace when they quit honoring the American flag.
At first they added amplification of the pit instruments, then they added electronics, then they allowed up to 150 members, then they brought in trombones, they the started having different costumes/uniforms sometimes changing during a single show, then they added more and more extravagant props, mixing boards, mic'd field brass. ect. ect. ect.
None of those things were free. How many corps have we lost because of the arms race?
Drum Corps is at risk of pricing itself out of existence
none of those things are expensive. they aren't the problem at all. it is the cost of transportation, food, and housing.
With more people and more stuff comes the need for more vehicles and more staff. More staff is more food and more vehicles. More vehicles is more fuel. It all adds up, sometimes in compounding ways.
Perhaps the way out is a commitment to the basics, at least in the short term.
@@highstimulation2497 All of the things I mentioned add to transportation cost and none of them come from Walmart.
At 3:19 you mentioned that there were full corps for southwind, it was actually quite the opposite. We only had 35 horns and around 80 members in total where as the other open class corps had 70+ horns and much more total. It’s possible that if we had the same amount of members as say Spartans, Gold, or Colombians that SW would still be performing next season. But I might be wrong. It’s been not fun to learn about the news
as a middle class child in high school it is very hard so far to pay for member dues. I will also have to come straight home in august and start paying for college so i doubt i’ll even be able to afford drum corps next season unless they lower the price.
You pronounced Boudreaux correctly. I'm impressed!
They just need to sell a few more boxes of World’s Finest Chocolate. LOL
But really….this is about funding. It’s sad, but DCI is very expensive.
And these kids can get the same thing in HS band…especially in Texas.
The UIL State contest in Texas is pretty much everything you get in DCI.
Southwind simply mismanaged their finances. Bought a food truck and a giant truck to house the drivers over the summer. They also got a third bus and couldn’t fill all the seats so they ended up giving like 20 spots out for a fraction of the cost of a normal member. Not very surprising once you know how bad they managed their money.
For the algorithm. ✊
Staff sizes. I don’t understand why you need so many damn ppl up tech. Like two techs and a tuning guy? For every sub section? Really?
How about if you write the book you teach it? His sub section staff and that’s it.
Transport.
Unchecked sexual abuse and abuse in general has cost this activity greatly in compliance admin costs.
I’ve seen so many talented kids that had what it took to make it to dci. Just didn’t have the ability to come up with the cost of tour and getting to all the camps etc
SA has been very prominent and should’ve probably been spoken about
It is official now. They are done.
It’s definitely the cost. I probably would join a drum core band if I had the chance. BUT 4,000 or even more like idk. College is already expensive. It’s insane
One thing that astounded me was when I was told Concord goes on tour with 16 vehicles. When I marched Freelancers in the 1980s we had seven.
Perhaps a "salary cap" of some kind could be implemented so corps don't have to tour with 16 vehicles in order to be competitive? Concord can afford it, but Santa Clara couldn't last year, and Garfield couldn't this year. (Yes, I call them Garfield. Get over it.)
Also the tour fees are outrageous. My older son will probably be marching this year but that's because we had a circumstance where we got $5k unexpectedly. 2025 both kids will likely do it and we'll have to start budgeting for that now. My single mom just pulled the $400 I needed from savings back then.
A thumbs-up for your use of "Garfield".
While I agree it is more expensive I don’t think it could have possibly jumped that much. I believe it’s a mix but I mainly look at DCI itself. I personally only DCI or corps when I look for it. Is DCI really pushing this out there? I could be wrong but I am not seeing it. Does DCI travel and promote. I’m not saying they don’t but I’m not seeing it as much as I would think.
Art
I know it's hard to be in the core as far as the money and times to arrange things and the hot heat . I was in core a long time ago from Framingham Massachusetts we all had our good times to go out look sharp and to have fun but I will think about all the cores that's been together over the years . I hope some day the core will be back together good luck all cheers 😊.
.... C O R P S
When DCI championships is in one place for...15 years now?...there's little to draw attention, support, and funds.
Percussion example, 2 snares 1 tomtom 1 bass drum, 1 cymbal, that's all
I'd be curious what would happen if the corps were stripped back to basics. Potentially that would mean a lot less equipment to maintain and that could be sold off to other programs. They also seam to buy new every season, id recommend they use it till it worn out. It's means potentially a large investment every few years, with proper financial planing it will be fine. My high school is still using 20+ year old uniforms and drums, so long as they get needed tlc they have been fine. Take some lessons from cash strapped school bands making it work.
I would actually start watching again if drum corps went back to its roots. Bugles, drums, and colorguard. Update uniforms maybe every 5-7 years. A musical program that can stand on its own and be enjoyable to just listen to. That's what drum corps was when I was in, and I stopped caring when it stopped being that.
@@cympimpin20 I agree. It is one of those less is more situations.
I'm so glad that I was able to march in the 60's and 70's when the activity was wholesome, affordable, and patriotic. Now, I would describe it as elitist, pretentious, and unaffordable for members and audiences alike.
This is sad. Two of DCI’s most successful groups are out for 2024.
I think DCA will be the new model. or DCI will have to have regional Champs and those Champs go to finals.
I loved Madison scouts ...!!
And phantom regiment
And 27th Lancers
Loved, as in past tense?
I miss C2 and now cadets
All the corps need to dial it down. It’s gotten to high priced and to crazy of the chain. Go back to the original ideas and philosophies of DCI. Stop the money
machine and MAYBE drag the old uniforms out and focus on music and drill. There’s a tremendous amount of talent out there with the musicians. Focus on
that and stop pumping up the staff and creators. It’s turned into an ego trip with these folks and it’s costing the kids a great experience. This was inevitable.
Blue Devils 1994 show is how it should be.
Electronic amplification is such an unnecessary financial burden for each corp.
You can love or hate electronics as a theatrical part of a drum & bugle corp show. But the cost burden on each drum corp for using amplified equipment is what’s financially killing DCI.
There is paying for the equipment, cables, and peripherals; paying adults to create, record, and edit sounds to intersect with live instruments on the field; paying other adults to manage the equipment all season (practices & shows); needing more food & travel costs for the adults who manage amplification equipment; extra truck space needed to travel with that electronic equipment; extra motor cart(s) to move the electronics; paying more for gas while touring with heavy electronic equipment & carts; recharging or replacing batteries that juice up the electronics; paying insurance premiums for electric equipment; then paying for storage in the off season; eventually disposal costs and/or e-waste environmental costs.
Adding revenue to support having electronics equipment-higher tour fees for kids, higher ticket costs for spectators, higher donations collected from all over-is not advancing marching member skills, and is not adding value to the shows for spectators.
I never get goosebumps from listening to recorded music generated by adults the way I get visible hair-raising goosebumps on my arms from a bugle performed live by a kid.
Electronics are financially dooming DCI corps.
Ban them universally, and millions of dollars each year go back to what REALY matters: giving more kids opportunities to experience marching in a drum & bugle corp in front of a live audience.
My question is why did SCV fold before Cadets?
SCV didn’t fold and neither did cadets
They completely folded.
Yo margarito!?
If anyone is tryna sqeeze in at least 1 season of dci, start working or finding ways to get money for it asap, especially for yall 18yr olds, its too damn expensive. Yall wanna march somewhere after highschool? Cool but also keep in mind that getting money together for another season (your ageout) might be tough. (Ofc everyones plans are different) but yeah expect to march at least one year because 2 seasons (money wise) is atrocious. At this point, some mfs can only afford 1 season. Ofc yall can always grind but sometimes people have things goin on in life, other expenses.
Go back to bugles and simple shows with recognizable music, no electronics and props. Staff salary caps. Regional tours. No band horns, cellos or vocalists. Be drum and bugle corps again.
Yup, the staff needs to be making far less than the $4 an hour they're making presently.
@@scottyt5918 200,000 per annum was more than three times the median FAMILY income in one corps director’s base community.
Have you priced G pitch Bugles? Sops start at $1000 Contra horns are almost 9k a pop.
@@keithbarnes9419 That is because they are now specialty items. If they start being mass produced again the prices will drop.
@@keithbarnes9419amortize the cost of bugles and contras over the span of 10 years-they are durable goods.
Compare that to the costs of one-year only props, silks, and costumes.
It’s probably money, it’s sad to see corps and participants struggle to afford the cost of competing all while Flo marching lines their pockets with the profits they had zero hand in making. One of the most repulsive and useless companies to exist.
Oh man, I am super skeptical about the new CEO of DCI. This sounds like it could be the McKinseyfication of the activity
Maybe the #1 thing DCI needs is SOMEONE who understands business, not music marching.
eh, I'm skeptical. I think it's more likely that DCI's problems stem from the fact that it's been businessified way to much in the past two decades@@bsoudi
@@kevinhateswriting see my comment below. Revenues cannot meet expenses for most corps and the activity. Hopefully someone outside will have some revenue or transformation ideas to bring in more $ for the activity to survive (besides going back to G bugles and marching in parades)
Yeah that's kind of what I mean, though. DCI has gotten so expensive, and I doubt the MBAs are going to want to do anything about that. I'd love to be wrong.@@bsoudi
@@kevinhateswriting It seems you just don’t trust people with MBAs to be competent? Or care? The new guy seemed to build an organization and media deals around a 4th tier niche sport, lacrosse (I think?). Seems like transferable business experience. I hope he and the activity’s powers that be do some hard work and soul searching to keep it alive. I hope a business person can help guide these creatives and non-profit execs.
The DCI org will have to step up and provide financial relief assistance. It’s very costly to run around the states all summer. Corps should perhaps rethink the show costs. Reduce the props and costume changes, etc. It’s cosmetics and often a designer trip. Focus on the performers! They foot a big portion of the bill anyways.
So many bad decisions led up to this point. Killing off the regional circuits, constantly adding/switching equipment and focusing on larger venues undoubtedly drove costs up. The outsize influence of a certain east coast corps director turned criminal certainly didn’t help. Not sure what the paths forward is but I suspect it needs to be more regional and approachable.
I agree with Marial8235. Drum Corps has out grown itself. Further away from Corps and closer to BAND to get an larger audience.Look what you have done. SAD!!
It's Simple . MONEY Changes Everything
How about using 2 valves on bugles, no electronics, and no thousands of pounds of props. It was a great time for DCI and the fans. And to all those who will call me names instead of having a conversation, never experienced it like that.
this comment section is an absolute dumpster fire of uninformed nonsense.
to reword the famous line from the original joker in batman (1989), "drum corps needs an enema!"
czcams.com/video/K_QBfJK73-o/video.htmlfeature=shared
algorithmm
Like we didn't see this coming. I knew that the race to cutting edge would finally catch up. I know I sound old when g-bugles were the instruments of choice and most corps would keep them for years. As we hear now, summer marching bands changed instruments every season. I thougt the reason for any keys were to cut costs? How's that working now GH??
Also summer marching bans have gotten away fro entertaining their audience. I couldn't hum one tume, again, this season. 70s to early '00 you's get full tunes and want to get the source. Today, notsomuch. It became a self-flagalting organization. Let's not forget that BD always came away with the win by designing visually boring shows.
I could go on, but I won't.
Disagree about switching to Bb instruments - that makes it more accessible to more students. But agree about entertaining the audiences and being able to hum along.
You are absolutely correct on inflation. I recommend doing A LOT of research before voting.
With The Cadets, they spent a lot of money in 2023 to crack the top 5 instead of a slower pace. I'm about 99.9% sure playing music from Man of Steel didn't help.
Again, I recommend doing A LOT of research on who you are voting for.... it's clear that our current leadership isn't hacking it.
DCI won't be around much longer. It's pricing itself out of existence, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe then we can get back to the basics with local circuits and much lower operating expenses. Go back to the G's, ditch the vocals and electronics, amps etc. and definitely lose all those silly props not to mention some pits which have become almost as large as the corps proper. Go back to 128 members max and lower the cost. Drum Corps is in dire need of a total reboot.
I doubt corps will ever go back to Gs. Not a financially smart thing to do
@@CJsMusicTrumpet That's probably true now, but it wasn't much of a problem when there were hundreds if not more corps all across North America. We have the policies of DCI to thank for that.
@@fdblade1529 sure. But the policies were created by member corps not some evil entity who wanted to kill drum corps.
@@fdblade1529 And it’s not like Gs were banned either
@@CJsMusicTrumpet Exactly.
modern uniform changes every season has got to be part of the money problems too.. you got legendary uniforms collecting dust in a closet while staff is all about designing a uniform for one summer.. thats maybe not the main budget problem but it just seems to me to be the most unnecessary expense that actually was never needed..
Drum Corps needs to go back to its roots. At one time it was a local youth activity designed to keep kids off the streets. Competition was local or at best regional. Children from all walks of life were able to participate. Today it's a rich man's activity where only the best of the best need apply.
Drum Corps has been taken over by professional music educators who have drastically changed its direction to the point where the average person cannot enjoy it. For example, just about every piece of music played is unrecognizable. They are all original compositions developed into a 10 minute theme that nobody can comprehend. Drum corps has totally lost its audience. The sound is not coming from the instruments themselves but through amplification. I've been involved in this activity since the days of the VFW, American Legion & CYO. To me it's not drum corps anymore, but something entirely else. I'm to the point where I no longer want to attend any competitions. If something isn't done soon, drum corps will cease to exist.
Waiting on the boomer comments about Uniforms and Staff pay being the reason this is happening.
there's so many sucu comments it's sickening.
I DID NOT go to the theater this year to see big and loud. there is a situation in the guards that is becoming an elephant in the room...remember when finals were held in Mississippi. Hardly a recognizable tune played all night. Do you think those people came back for more. maybe there are people with dci with interests in equipment sales. college bands are getting too big. .....those japanese corps seem to do quite well....are they having issues 2..i don't want to watch a live broad cast and constantly have a close up of a guard members face covered in make-up with a contrived expression and to top it off,,,,,no shirt on
Wack
Go woke, go broke…
Slowly killing the activity. Corps “suspending” seasons or complete operations. Why ? Changing “tradition” by UN connecting props, uniforms and music, changing to unrecognizable music. Expanding size of corps, increasing their budgets to be more “inclusive”, such as electronics, gymnastics,extra instrumentation suck as woodwinds, non bugle brass, cost of instruction from outside the corps activity for their productions…theatrics production.
It is a completely unsustainable. I know a lot of people who have lost the connection. Good for DCI and other related activities. It’s not “drum and bugle corps” anymore.
Drum Corps was never meant to be a literal broadway stage production.
Not to mention with identities, staff in dormant corps unemployed for a year may take up offers from other corps, abandoning the values that had them there to begin with. It’s great to see this activity based around their expansive budgets and demand of $$$$ at individual corps level, isn’t it. Thank you rules committee. You’ve killed the activity. It only took a decade of this mindset.
The solution is simply go back to being a drum corps, drop the broadway show props
Reduce the members of the pit , reduce staff, local regional travel, sacrifices have to be made!!
I really don't think props make any meaningful difference to the cost though, you may have a point with staff though, I marched in '21 with only 1 dedicated sound guy and things still ran pretty well
Agreed, minimal props and focus on playing clean beats/music and get creative with the drill visuals to entertain the audience (like cavies in the early 2000s) go back to actual uniforms (not some shit you see at a strip joint) and reuse them for more than one year
MONEY!!! These are not small DCI corps that are "failing"... Stop relying on all the large on field props which increases the need for additional vehicles, maintenance, fuel,, etc... and takes time and effort away from the corps members performing. It is DRUM & BUGLE CORPS at its heart... get back to it. "Traditional" shows concentrating on the musicians, drums, and guard with innovative drill has proven time and again to be sustainable. It has to be an activity that can be affordable to participant in. And stop enacting DCI rules that cut corps off at the knees.
absolutely spot on
Art