Sovereignty & Autonomy, Rafia Morgan (Collective Intelligence Series)
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- What is sovereignty and how do we cultivate it? In our Collective Intelligence Series many of our interviewees have talked about the value of inner sovereignty.
Rafia Morgan is an expert in personal growth and transformation, and has been leading retreats since the 1970s. In this discussion he talks about the importance of inquiry, how to reach coherence, and the important distiction between connection and contact. He also talks about the challenge to men and the value of men's work.
Rafia is a mentor for Rebel Wisdom's retreats: www.rebelwisdom.co.uk/retreats
He is also the creator of Path Retreats: pathretreats.com/
You can listen to podcast versions of our films on Spotify or Apple Podcasts by searching 'Rebel Wisdom' or download episodes from our Podbean page: rebelwisdom.podbean.com/
We also have a Rebel Wisdom Discord discussion channel: / discord
Self-doubt is the path to self-discovery, which is the path to self-confidence.
Still one of the best Rebel Wisdom videos, which is saying a lot.
Just coming across these conversations with Rafia. Thank you!
This envelopes almost everything I have discovered about myself through self forced discovery, after trying to reemerge from life collapse
The textbook for those interested in the state and process Rafia describes, involving autonomy and contact, is The Pearl Beyond Price: Integration of Personality into Being, an Object Relations Approach, by A.H. Almaas.
thanks...yes doing years of inquiry on whats known as The Pearl and reading this book has been a huge teacher for me...
Wow! Rafia is amazing. He keeps coming back to the importance of the inner work, and this _is_ the truth. This is the only way forward. Around 26:00 referring to this notion that person X can determine "what is wisdom", is already to focus away from wisdom necessarily being a lived experience and not something that "he" can determine for "we". These sort of questions will always come down to "I" determining this from my own lifetime work on "I", and of course this can, and will to some extent need to be, done with various others as such walk the path of growing consciousness together.
Rafia and Jordan Peterson seem to be the only two humans I have seen so far on your show that match my own inner experience of useful growth approaches without reservation. Even Jordan does have a mild repressive aspect that I have yet to see in Rafia, but his intellectual clarity and bravery are inspiring in a way that is very rare indeed.
Thanks to Rebel wisdom for giving a platform to this wonderful exemplar of growth in consciousness.
thankyou Rafia! -- in particular for articulating the difference between connection and contact, wow, and also for describing your (my)
need to sometimes pause and rewind to take in these interviews , brilliant young minds moving at speed of light
Great to see Rafia on the channel guys! Loved hearing him talk knowing that he is a big inspiration and mentor for you both. I think this timing right and this perspective is so important as the channel evolves. Much love.
These guys ones are fantastic!!!
best possible of you.....is to live your life that the fear of hate can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people......never bow, never break....live with honor
accept your fate.....seek only truth, with head held high....
Thoughts create our state of existence and the quality of our experience here on Earth.
Therefore, be responsible for everything you create by being responsible for everything that you think
Thanks! Looking forward to the next one 😊🙏🏻
Fantastic! Keep it coming x
Thanks for sharing these important conversations :)
David, I did some research on Rafia and learned about his connection to Osho and the human potential movement. I now better understand Rebel Wisdom’s underlying agenda. I’ll leave it at that.
Sovereignty is the last stage of Jung’s individualization process. You are individual and universal at the same time, and therefore your individuality coheres with the universal Truth.
Not veimg rude but not quite. Read Ken Wilber for the full picture
At 20 mins Rafia talks about his 'waiting for synthesis' over so many years but it just doesn't happen and the polarisation is growing and growing.
Maybe this is because the dialectic approach isn't working for us and we are not sitting long enough in that uncomfortable space that Rafia talks about.
The uncomfortable middle that may actually fragment instead of cohere, that may be disjointed and jerky instead of flowing, that may be a way down to differentiation and diffraction instead of wholeness and unity.
Are we brave enough to go to that place and stay with it?? Conscious psychosis.......fragmented coherence.....yet held.......held by others falling with the same humility and grace.
RW its time for a chat with Bayo Akomolafe......be brave enough to fall through those cracks.....💚
i gotta say. in order to have these new integrative, wholeness creating, bridging of divisions and evolutionary conversations, can't we agree on a common language and can we please make it that of Integral theory from Ken Wilber. He has created the greatest models in this way, he was the first to do it in their new form, he is by far the greatest mind in the field and he has spent 50 years honing his meta theory, his footnotes alone are probably longer than most of the collected works of anyone here. sorry to be so full on about it but we have the best models of reality availible to us by light years and we are still dancing around with a bunch of different takes on the same thing. Noone comes close to touching Wilbers genius or his creative contribution in depth and breadth, so everyone, pick up a couple of his later works and lets get this thing rolling properly!
7:01 my ears are listening to those amazing words.
ÆMEROX The two minutes after that struck a nerve with me. Great conversation generally, looking forward to more. Have a great 2020!
@@MatthewJohnCrittenden Same goes to you.
"All knowledge is self-knowledge."
-Bruce Lee
Beautiful 🙏
Thank you all so much for this gift of brain food!
Want some brain food and a new operating system, check out Ken Wilber
Mr Morgan says he sees sovereignty and autonomy as roughly equal but I see autonomy as the ability to act independently while sovereignty is the right to do so.
New to these delightful conversations. They sound very much like the inquiry done in the quest for enlightenment. Is this a sign of humanity evolving?
Hope si. We'll get there a lot faste and with a lot less beatimg aroumd the bush if we read Ken Wilber amd find some of the great new tech for deeper, easier access to meditative states like Genpo Roshi's Big Mind or IAwake's Bunaural entraimment
Several iterations of the necessity of "speaking the truth" as if the truth were a commonly understood discrete thing. We have a situation where different camps are convinced that their versions of the truth are the only real ones.
It's like Peterson himself said, and I am paraphrasing 'there are religious wars being fought inside the nuclei pf families about what constitutes the real ultimate values, and the reduction of the whole emobodied conflict to a polite rational debate or conversation won't move the process through and won't heal the wounds'. By religious war he means a war about meaning and about right from wrong and good vs evil. What are the right values that create a haromious and truly human life.
if you like peterson you will love Ken Wilber
So, when are you guys going to cross the pond, namely, San Francisco? This is one town that could use some rebellious wisdom.
The vast majority of the state of Oklahoma could too.
So what I'm hearing is that the results of inquiry, once they're brought up responsibly, can be metabolised into autonomy. That seems doable to this tiny mind. Useful.
Ken Wilber says it all if you want more
Hi! Love your content. But... where to get / listen to intro music?
Our minds have been weaponized. Who's holding the gun and who's going to pull the trigger?
Phantom Coyote You sound restless ;)
It is hard to have personal contact with the people around you are so asleep. My own family is barely speaking to me as they think my ideas are just not right.❤️ Much love to all
You right, sometimes I feel people think that I came from a different Planet. Much Love to You, as well.
Elsie Clay ☝🏼People are not really asleep, though it might help you if you try to open your eyes and heart more and maybe try to refrain from being so cliched in your judgements, try and develop your social skills further so they will enable you to see the truth and complexity that exists in all human beings and life. I am not saying you should have a relationship with anybody that you don’t want to but try to take full responsibility for your own thoughts and feelings. 🤷🏻♂️
Mr SuperNobody Well, since you admit you are a super nobody, you have no idea what goes on in my life. People around me are asleep. My skill set with people remains quite high and I have been around and I have successfully worked with people all my life, well since I was working. Don't talk about what you don't know ❤️ with much love to all
When Rafia said women were doing masculinity better I almost lost my shit laughing, my experience is that women should not trespass in the men’s domain. It’s normally cringeworthy at best. Though I give him the benefit of the doubt in the end as he may know some women who are killing it.
I found that to be a nonsensical comment as well, but I'd be interested to hear what you mean by laughable, trespass, and cringeworthy.
I think Rafia's just pointing to the fact that much of the success women have had through achieving greater equality has come from adopting a more masculine approach at the expense of the feminine. To the point where particularly feminine women are sometimes seen as weak/flighty/vacuous. (eg. the desire to be a stay-at-home mum instead of pursuing a career is too often looked down upon by other women. Or things like mothers actively trying to discourage their daughters adoring pink and playing with dolls.)
24:00 and following. .."the feminine has been devalued for really, really a long time.." This to my mind is looking backward with a present lens and making a judgement as if today's values are somehow universal. A common mistake. I would argue that the social strictures around women that feminism has been throwing off in the recent past, say 100 years, were originally put in place not as a devaluing of women but precisely the opposite. From the perspective of species or at least tribal survival, evolutionary necessity, women were highly valued, so highly that they were bounded and guarded at the expense and cost of any number of disposable men.
In various iterations of this over millennia, class became a relevant distinction, wherein the higher, or ruling class protected their women, and the peasant class, not so much. Everyone was disposable at a certain bottom level, because their genes were not as worthy to protect. In the age of the ascension of the middle class, those newly educated and prosperous mimicked the upper classes with their boundary social structures around women, some legal, some moral. This is the structure that feminists having been fighting.
I think you might be confusing women with the feminine. Feminism has made great strides in turning around the historical devaluing of women. But as he said, women have become better men than men. Feminism lifted women but did so mostly by challenging men through typically masculine modes. I feel that nowadays femininity is devalued by women more than men (eg. Fewer than something like 3% of scholarly articles in women's studies focus on motherhood, iirc). So it's not so much that the influence of women is lacking but rather the feminine dynamic is. And this is coming from a not particularly feminine female. (ie. me.)
Intrograted
I broadly agree.
A lot of what feminism fought historically was a very limiting, enforced restrictive view of the feminine. We are a dimorphic species but we are not that dimorphic!
Automatic behavior. That's a good term.
I wonder how shadow work applies to society...
Ken Wilber speaks a bunch about the collective shadow
@@fightington He's an interesting character. Cheers.
Yes from a "female".....
At around 6:50 you immediately get the point of the guest. The discussion shifts from a fully embodied account of a persons experience to an intelectual discussion, which don't have the same power. Don't have power, period. I find this channel has gotten boring most of the time. The Peterson stuff was interesting, cuz it was Peterson. "The ongoing conversation's" role in the process of real things and real lives is overvalued here, in my opinion. Even when it is declared as capable of bridging polarity and offensiveness. People have to change in the unconscious, emotional and active state of their being, that generally means that conflict and stumbling our way through the process is part of it. This conversations seem a lot of the time like a flimsy way to try to escape going to do the fighting for whats right and instead wanting to be inclusive and moderate about everything.
I find this channel boring at times too - most often when they recycle and adhere to Wilber-isms that feel outdated and disproven.
@@yogameditationinsight That I not know much about though.
: )
David Deida has the idea that there are three stages of relationship: 1) Passion without love, which is abusive, 2) Equality and negotiation, which is boring, 3) Passion with love. I think RW is stuck in stage two. They are all "nice guys", e.g. Rafia. Kenny might be suggesting something like stage 3, which involves a bit more push back and fire.
@@worldwidehappiness Seems like a relatively fair way to put it.
What an oxymoron a title
like some extreme philosophers ..w ....f ..... why?
I found this conversation to be very insightful, until that last moment of 'let's go grab a beer,' which undermined all the consciousness.
Lauren Elizabeth how so? I’m genuinely curious....seems to be perfectly contextual. Two lovely men who simply want to continue the contact...like when you’re on a date that you simply do not wish to end.
I appreciate your curiosity. To continue with your example, if the date is turning you on, why lubricate? I see alcohol as a social lubricant. In that sense, to me it's not necessary when there is genuine connection.
It’s all Jah works, divinity
Lauren Elizabeth well, I used the word contact specifically to highlight the context of Rafia’s use. Did not mean it to be necessarily a physiological mating response, just mirroring that similar space when pure contact occurs. And within the context of men’s work grabbing a bear is a kind of male/masculine expression of I like where we’ve gone and I’d like it to continue...not a social lubricant. Just two folks engaging in very real contact who happen to enjoy beer...
Lauren Elizabeth ...and for the record, I happen to abstain from recreational use of alcohol, though on occasion I do partake sacramentally