A Discussion on the Benedict Option
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 03. 2022
- Our website: www.justandsinner.org
Patreon: / justandsinner
This video is an overview of the Benedict option of Rod Dreher. I discuss thoughts on Christ and culture, and how these ideas can and should be implemented.
Yes! Please do a series on monasticism. Also, I would enjoy your thoughts on the development of the papacy in the west and how it impacted (gave rise to) the Reformation
I second the topic of Protestant monasticism
Another great episode. Thank you for discussing intergenerational communities and integration of long-term single adults in the church.
Very good video. Great point about evangelism and being rooted in the faith. It is especially difficult to evangelize when you are not rooted, when you are not firm. This doesn't mean "we become rooted, not evangelize" but rather, "we focus on becoming rooted so that we may evangelize."
A smart and wise analysis. I have had many of these same thoughts. The point about being open to questions is important. The more widespread and hostile the attacks that come are, the more heightened our defenses are, and those defenses can carry into discussions among each other and be a force to pull us into purity spirals, which I see happening everywhere. Like whirlpools crowding a river.
I also appreciate the realism, (in general, but especially), regarding singles in the church. I've long thought that church is for God and not to meet a spouse. That has tempered a little in recent years as I realized that I'm getting on in years and I meet no Christians in the day-to-day. But I'm in an age group where I'm often the only one in that group in a church. So, faced with the real possibility that I may never marry, it's better to focus on communion with God and not place too many expectations on how the church may perform as a social vehicle in my life. Tying into purity spirals, there's a lot of good in the trad movement, but sometimes it's not realistic. It may promote a good ideal, but no man or woman should feel ashamed because he or she couldn't find a good spouse and have children. It is not a sin not to marry and reproduce. It's enough to deal with being alone. You don't need an undue weight of moral failure attached.
The apostle Paul would agree with you!
Just discovered your channel. I've watched a handful of your backlog and it's pretty good.
Keep up the great work.
Oo. You should definitely cover Live Not By Lies too at some point!
Awesome video, I look forward to this series!!!
Really thought-provoking video. Would love to see some follow-ups in the future about the topics you touched on a bit but didn't dive super deep into, such as how to put these ideas into practice and modern Lutheran monasticism
Would love to see more videos on this topic
First time listener I really enjoyed your wisdom. Thanks
Thank you for the great content!
Academia argues amongst itself while the layman lives life. There is a bit of a disconnect perhaps.
An example is the current situation at Concordia Wisconsin with Dr. Schulz. We laymen glibly watch geopolitical slapstick and wonder if the Gospel will win or if the cancer will spread, like it did in the SBC and kill the MO Synod host. A suggestion would be to stand and FIGHT and not worry about nits to pick, or tenure.
We're waiting here to see if it spreads while we minister and care for our families.
Another amazing presentation Dr Jordan Cooper. As always another thought provoking material. By the way I am really enjoying my studies into the protestantism. And the reformation. Also what is your view on John Wycliffe. 💙❤️🙏
The Weidner hardback looks great! I'd love to the Jacobs one-volume systematic theology you publish in hardback as well.
In Greece, the educational system is 94% public. In a small country as Greece, public education is considered a national and democratic conquest and the people in general esteem it a lot. Here, the Eastern Orthodox Church is very strong and the ''politically correct''/woke/Critical Race Theory/LGBTQI+ etc agenda can not be absolutely influential as their proponents would wish to be. Personally, I 'm a confessional lutheran, not an eastern orthodox, and a teacher and I have taught in schools in villages with a church in the center of it. The priests come from time to time to the school, the kids love them and, always, in the beginning of the school year a priest ''sanctifies'' the school in a public celebration. So, there is a difference from what happens in America or in France etc. Benedict is indeed an option, the Catacombs also, but the most you can do in the States right now is to defend your political and democratic rights of free speech and free thinking. The worst you can do is to support political demagogues and not serious politicians as Trump or Putin.
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. I've lived in China. Christianity is growing faster there than State-side despite open ridicule and state persecution. No possibility of Christian private schools at all.
Another rocke em and sock em vid from Dr. Cooper. Great content. I would love to know Dr Coopers take on the work of Hauerwas and Merton. Resident Aliens and Faith and Violence stands out to me as how Christians in community can navigate our current age.
Dear Dr. Cooper, This is a very important topic for all churches today. Your analysis is excellent. Are there any models found within the orthodox Lutheran denominations that are working? Are there individual churches which are passing on the Faith intact to the next generation? This is a topic which has become ever more critical for churches.
Schools :
Your assessment of public schools is right on the mark. I know of one church which has a combination of homeschooling and classes at the church. This parish school encompasses all grades to the end of high school. From everything I can observe the school is a great success. Because of the combination of homeschooling and classes at the church the cost to parents is very reasonable. This school has been a boon to the parish across all generations.
Marriage and Schools :
It is very good that you addressed this topic. Once again I look for models that work. What was lacking in my part of the world were good orthodox Christian colleges for my denomination. Fortunately, about 15 years ago, lay people established such a college. Many marriages now come out of this college. All the students who go to this college were homeschooled, or went to a Christian school of this denomination, so we’re well prepared for this Christian college. The combination of orthodox Christian schooling from elementary school through college within a particular denomination, combined with orthodox Christian churches throughout these formative years, is the only way the Faith can be handed on intact and for young people to find Christian spouses.
Stability of Christian Communities:
You did well to point out the importance of Christian communities being located in one geographic area insofar as is possible. Not only do they need physical proximity for daily face to face interaction, but the people must do everything they can to remain on the one community across generations. Individualism and mobility must be controlled for the good of the local Body of Christ across the generations. Without this commitment to stability, the local Body of Christ will always die out. The importance of stability comes right out of the Rule of S Benedict.
Ave Maria was built as a Catholic community in Florida along the lines that you describe.
I'm also in MA and public school is still exactly how you describe it
There is an option that I never hear discussed. Amny small towns are losing population. What if a movement could be started to have people as a group move into these towns and create the communities that you hope for. Individuals now have greater options for working from home and with a population increase other jobs would follow. This is not a great format for such a complex idea but I offer as a seed for thought.
This is what I actually perceive to be the best option. I've thought about initiating something here in my small town in upstate NY.
Your thoughts at 42:00 or so about moving for the sake of Christian community kind of remind me of one of those postmil guys you mention but don't name (edit: well, that's what I get for commenting before I finished the video), Doug Wilson. It doesn't seem like he's actively encouraging people to move to Moscow, but it also seems like a lot are.
And yes, there's always a danger of idolizing people. And moving for the sake of the church (and by extension the pastor, because the pastor is really the face of the church) is something I wouldn't have recommended a couple of years ago, though it seems more reasonable today than it would have two years ago. But in the case of Wilson, he seems to have his finger on what's going on in the world in a way that few in the church do--at least, few that are speaking publicly.
Love the discussion on this topic. But I think it would be helpful to make the titles of the video more broad. Since I wasn't familiar with the title of the book I almost didn't click on it. If the video was titled: "A discussion on Christ and culture" or something of that sort it would be more clear what the topic of the video is. God bless🙏
Thanks for acknowledging the issue with young unmarried adults. I have three children who can’t find a Lutheran community with other young adults. Is it possible for Lutheran churches of an area to join together and offer programs for this group?
Non public school or homeschool is great if you can afford it. Many Christian parents cannot. There must be support in the church and discipleship for kids that are in public school as opposed to sticking public school as a bad option and leaving it there. This is a blind spot in the church I often see. Overall great discussion. Thanks Dr. Cooper
Right. I understand the difficulties of being able to do it financially.
Right, homeschool and private schools aren’t an option for say many inner city youth in Chicago or a lot of folks outside of the west. Our christian community has to deal with this… or we just end up as another voice for certain Christians and not all.
@@bmstellar right. I should've been more clear about this.
@@DrJordanBCooper no worries Dr. Cooper. We’re all wrestling through these things given the current climate. These discussions are needed to navigate all of this. The video was very helpful and thought provoking.
@@DrJordanBCooper Appreciate you and your work Dr Cooper.
I agreed with almost every word.
Dear Dr. Cooper, Alas, I tapped the wrong button and sent my reply before I finished. So, I will send this last point in a separate reply.
“Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth?”
This is the title of a book by Eric Kaufmann published a few years ago. The thesis is an important one. All projections into the future have their limitations. But this one bears thought. According to current demographic trends, by 2050 there will be more Old Order Amish in America than Episcopalians. Episcopalians, together with many other Christian denominations, are not replacing themselves. Yes, yes they are losing members all the time to secularism. But, even if they were not losing members to secularism, they would still be declining at an ever-increasing rate, because they are not having enough children. It is as simple as that. So, even demographically, young Christians have fewer and fewer people among whom to find a spouse in their particular church.
Although many will scoff at this suggestion, I recommend Donald Kraybill’s recent book, “What the Amish Teach Us”, published by Johns Hopkins University Press, 2021. Herein one will find much Christian wisdom pertinent to the Benedict Option. I can’t recommend it too highly for this topic.
Sincerely,
Larry Clarence Lewis
Ontario, Canada
I think a very real consideration regarding schooling is that for a lot of people, public schools are their only option. Economically, they can not afford homeschooling, and private schools are extraordinarily expensive. To expect them not to send them to public school means a lack of provision of their needs elsewhere. This should be addressed by parents by engaging with their children about their faith and the church by providing training and resources for the parents. As for secular values being presented on television, I see them as opportunities to engage my children about the world around us and why we don't believe that these things are right. Sure, it is sad to see certain sins promoted as good on children's TV, but why would we not expect the world to make entertainment that reflects their values? That's the world we live in and we should take these opportunities to train our children how to engage and think about the world we live in.
That being said, I do enjoy your videos and I appreciate your ministry immensely! I just got some books from J&S publishing and I am very thankful for the resources you guys have made available.
How disorienting for the little ones though, for you to place them into a context (godless schooling, subversive media, ...) and then to explain how it is bad. It is a recipe for inner conflict, especially if they become attached to the bad or the one (the lovely teacher) imparting the bad.
@James O I'm not saying it's ideal. Far from it. But assuming that all parents have the same opportunities is unfair to the reality of their situation. And those are the people that we as the church can have the largest impact in their lives, but as I observe it, they are often the ones most neglected.
Don’t underestimate determination. My parents managed to homeschool six kids on a single income that wasn’t much. Without government assistance, though most of the time we would have qualified for food stamps. We ate a lot of beans, rice, and venison, with vegetables and fruit out of the back yard or foraged. Oh, and even today you can buy 50# of potatoes for $15 if you know where to look. Onions are a little higher. Last time I checked it was more like $20 for 40#.
Mind you, I spent a lot of my childhood being used as slave labor on the plantation, er, family vegetable garden. Or shooting robins in the strawberry patch.
What you describe in minute 42. How is that different from going to your local church now? We already have buildings and congregations, but they continue to shrink...
Take my money for that volume nowwwwwwww💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸💸
Yes…. Please…. There is lots of talk. We need real things we can do to implement Christian community. Thank you!!
Have you heard of the American Redoubt? Do you have any thoughts?
Bad idea. Why congregate in one locale? Makes persecution easier if you ask me. Easier to be smeared, discounted and eventually discriminated, 21st C "hicks & hillbillies". A slur so many in Appalachia suffered when venturing to work in industrial north of Ohio and Pennsylvania etc
Ducking away, hiding in way off land will not deliver us.
Those who've chosen the Redoubt have already quit. They just won't admit so.
No, no Redoubt. Time to "get in their face". Make every one of their attempts across US expensive, difficult and bloody.
*NOT ONE STEP BACK*
I see the Church as having left the Faithful
Thank you for this review. But why was GenX forgotten. Again. Really? :)
I usually like scrambled eggs myself
How do we redeem churches that fallen away to secularism(i.e. ELCA and PCUSA are two examples)?
By going to a different church.
14:40 This wasn't written by Billy-Bob Baptist, this was written by an Orthodox Christian. There are no limits to the depth of The Faith. Baptists rely on ignorance, while We show the way to illumination and theosis.
There is genuinely nothing in biblical teaching that suggests you should retreat from society and raise your children in a sheltered environment. Frequently and repeatedly we're taught to raise children to be able to interact with and make a living within the external society outside the church. You're meant to instruct the child in the faith, let the child move out into the culture and interact with it and find their place, and trust in God that their inheritance is secure.
As to your discussion of the people who have left the church, it is very common also within more historically-oriented and intellectually open churches and traditions for children to stray from the church during their young-adult years, because the pull of culture is strong as is the pull of sinful lusts and desires in youth. I feel that the biblical instruction in that case is for parents to remain examples in the faith, to keep calling their children back to the faith by their example, and to trust in God that the children will return to the fold. And they often do, especially the longer the time horizon you allow for it.
I attended both public and Christian schools (and was homeschooled for awhile) and was exposed to a lot of evil in the former. Attending Christian schools is by far the best option. Christianity brought education to the masses after the fall of Rome, let's reclaim our heritage.
This episode was...depresing. I'm on my 30 and all my fellow brethren are all families with little children. I know you don't like the benedic option, but at least it gives an option.
Sorry. Just being realistic. But this program was not against the Benedict option at all.
@@DrJordanBCooper Sorry, I was working while I listen, I misheard.....but still depressing je. I'm from Argentina, this problem goes beyond North America Dr. Cooper. It's hard to hear a reality one is living with the desired to get married with a Christian woman and have children.
24:40 That's why we need Divine Liturgy and a prayer rule. We need to experience the Uncreated Energies of God, not just think about Him like Gnostics.
Is it worth going to Rome to find kids for your kids to hang out with?
"I am a millennial instead of that beard."
Actually, early millennials are entering their 40s. 😅😅
A multi-generational church is increasingly not as commonplace as they were in the past. We live in a context where are teenage kids are the only ones in the congregation, and their prospects of finding like-minded friends, and Lord willing future spouses, within the church are bleak.
Jonestown , Jim Jones started as local church, working with City to help the poor. An we know how that ended.
Yes. And that therefore means that every religious community is exactly the same as Jonestown.
@@DrJordanBCooper Thanks, Dr Cooper
To the 54 Commentors here and Jordan Cooper: When we add to our truthful doctrine, we can give the preaching to the Christian persons
who will project the Book of Concord, as a study aid to the Scriptures, from the subjects that it covers, while speaking the pure Lutheran
belief, without out allowing separate written statenents to add to the truths in Lutheranism. Instead of donating to LCMS false separate written
additions to the Book of Concord, and the Scriptures (The Bible), that cover what the Book of Concord did not cover, we should want to listen to a preacher who is willing to continue their own walk with Christ, such as, as one example-Roberta Morrison Gilbert; she is studying Lutheranism as well, and
she is rightfully apalled by the present situation with Lutherans, and rightfully so, she is not in denial of this. Here is a link:
czcams.com/video/cfWzJTBnpkM/video.html
great discussion- not the main point, but can't help sighing/laughing at the comment at 11:20. Talking about how we could never have seen the world turning out the way it is..... just prior to 2020. Oof
czcams.com/video/22s_IwHzYi4/video.html
Frankly, the Benedict Option is a poor analogy and ultimately doomed. Benedict lived in a time when the world was dominated by uneducated peasants and the Church had a monopoly on learning, more or less. That is not the case today.
In some ways he is too smart for his own good it is very hard to follow as he cannot stay on topic/point? Also I love a lot of his work but he is almost sickly attached in an unhealthy way or level two Luther and Lutheranism. My guess is he identifies as a Lutheran just as much if not more than Christian and if you asked him he would say: “well yeah they’re one in the same” there lies the problem :-)
You made a lot of good points. I think you perhaps have a misunderstanding of monastic life. It developed quite naturally. In the early Church there were many women and men who felt called by God to consecrate their virginity to God. Many of them became martyrs for refusing to marry. Many began to flee to the desert to live out an austere Christian life of penance and prayer, sort of like the Essenes in Israel. Prayer of course was a burden, but a burden of love. The truth is that everything we do eventually feels like a burden for a time because of human nature, but when we stick to it we show true commitment. A parent for instance does not enjoy most of the duties required in raising children, but it is worth it for love as a sacrifice.
Anyway, the desert hermit communities created a foundation which gave birth to the monastic life. Monasteries were made so that those who could not handle the austerities of a hermit life could still have the option of living the consecrated life in the safety of a community. The hours of prayer are long, but it is the main reason for being there. As soon as such places become relaxed and lose their heart of prayer it never ends well. Don't forget as well that the prayers are being offered not just for themselves, but for their local community, all of Christendom, and the entire world.