Tech Notes: ATSG states the wiring harness changed in 1993; torque compensator feed eliminated after 1993; however, if you have a 1991-1993 model year unit that has the earlier harness/VB, you can install a Rosta harness, part number 34446AK (works on all years 1991-2003), updated BW non-vented solenoid and adapt the VB and plate to work with the updated EPC (See Transgo link for instructions below). Valve bodies that use the initial vented electronic pressure control solenoid (EPC), produced by Bosch, will need to be adapted to work with the updated Borg Warner/Holly EPC. See page 5 of Transgo's SK-4L80E shift kit instructions on how to do this procedure: res.cloudinary.com/transgo/wbiss/sk/SK4L80E.pdf The front planet will interchange between 1991-1998 units but not with 99+
I went with a 62 or 64 thousand on all of my feed holes in my 1991 V3500 crew cab with a 1993 transmission in it. I did internal dual feed my trans, but it seems to shift just fine from 2 to 3 with the stock 800 RPM stall speed converter. I also used Sonnax plastic check balls in all the stock positions.
@@nickstransmissions I believe with my 1-ton truck it is supposed to be 800 RPM. I had my OEM torque converter rebuilt by a local guy with billet clutch, billet stator, and new clutch material. I had him over-build my torque converter for it use. He said he kept it at the stock stall speed of 800 RPM.
What engine is in your truck? Do you have 6.2 or 6.5 Duramax diesel? If so, you would have a GM81 torque converter which is an early low stall for the Duramax diesels and some gas big blocks at the time. I've actually never done a diesel 4L80E and admittedly don't know much about those platforms but I'd still check on that stall speed as it seems low...I'd figure it should be 1200-1400 or so but can certainly be wrong. If you'd like I will ask my converter builder later today and reply back; he will know for sure what the factory stall range is for any given GM or Chevy motor.
@@nickstransmissions My 1991 V3500 crew cab came with a 350 TBI/4L80E/NP205/14-bolt rear/dana-60 front. I am only going with what the guy that rebuilt my torque converter told me it was. My truck is a last year square body, and is the only year square body that came with a 4L80E over drive transmission.
If you have a SBC 350 TBI-based gas engine, you should have a 1600-1800 stall converter. I'd double check with your converter guy to confirm...I occasionally have custom low-stall converters done for folks w/small blocks or diesel engines who use the vehicles for towing/hauling heavier loads and those are 1200-1400 stall, depending on type and engine size/displacement.
I had someone tell me that the output planet surface is supposed to be a little rough with the early style reverse band. When I built my early style 4L80E it had some grooving, but not as bad as yours. I could not get a finger nail to catch on it, but a small amount of grooving was visible.
It can be a little rough but it's not super critical...When I have them turned, the surface is rough in appearance and slightly rough to the touch which makes for a perfect mating surface for the band. Same holds true for the direct drum and reverse input drum in the 4L60Es/700R4s and direct in the 200-4Rs. I will sometimes use a sheet of 400 grit sand paper to clean up good used drums that aren't otherwise warped.
There was a difference in the 91 to 93 Pressure Control Solenoid. The 91 to 93 Pressure solenoid is no longer available, and the updated one from 94 on is the only one available. The 91 to 93 valve body has to have a small vent hole drilled in it, in order to use the updated 94 on pressure control switch. The Trans Go shift kit instructions actually mentions this (oops! later in the video you mention this. Jumped the gun). Also, the 91 to 92 internal harness was different from the 93 on updated internal harness, and the external wire harness has to be modified to work with the updated 93 on internal harness. Luckily you have a 94 4L80E so you will not have to deal with any of this.
Thanks for watching, Christopher. You're correct with your info. I also believe the 91-92 cases were slightly different as well for those first two years. Adapting the 91-92 units to work with the 93-02 BW epc is not a big deal, just involves drilling the hole for epc vent that wasnt present. The Rostra harness for the will service all those years (91-03) as well. I have a link to Transgo's instructions in the description but thinking to pin a copy of those links/tech notes in the comments since many dont read the description and may not see the links.
Nick, I got myself in a pickle. I managed to break the retaining pin that holds in the shift linkage. It was magnetic so I tried welding a nut to it so I could pull it out but it made the nail brittle. Have you had any luck removing the broken nail without ruining the case?
Damn, man - that sucks....Had that happen to me years ago...The machine shop was able to get it out but took quite a bit of time. I don't know exactly how they did it but I believe the drilled a counter-sink around the nail to get enough exposure on it to yank it.
Great video! You mention another similar teardown video for the later model 4L80e. I can’t seem to find that video. Can you help me out? Thanks for the great content!
Hey Chris, thank you for watching and for the compliments...I actually haven't yet published that video, though it was filmed shortly before the one you watched...I see if I can get it on the channel soon...I'll definitely be putting out more 4L80E content in the near future as I have a couple builds coming up in early June....
2005 Surburban 8.1 4L80E, whines like it has an eaton blower, 1st to second. Shifts fine, clunks into reverse 8 out of10 times. Does it need a service, flush or is torque converter going bad ?
Hi AffordablePC1...I'd plug in a bidirectional scan tool, bring up live transmission data then take for a test drive...Look at things like shift speed, TCC slip speed, especially when in third and fourth gear cruising...Duty cycle will be higher once the TCC is on/applied...If slip speed is greater than 10RPM or so while duty cycle is high, the converter clutch is slipping...If you're only getting whine early, it could be converter's stator or bearing whine that simply goes unnoticed beyond a certain speed. Reverse clunk is somewhat normal, they can be abrupt when engaging reverse. Another option is to go underneath, unbolt the torque converter and spin it in place on the transmission while listening for any noises being made...It helps if you have a mechanic's stethoscope when doing this test. If it's coming from inside the transmission, it could be your overdrive planetary carrier pinion gears/needle bearings...If they're worn you'll hear a whirling/whining noise coming from the front of the transmission.
I’m about to search for a video for the bushing removal on the 4L 60 E Stator shaft I have a homemade tool that my dad made 50 years ago, but it has gotten misplaced
Just grab a blind hole bushing/bearing puller set off eBay for $50.00 or so. Will pretty much handle every light duty vehicle (i.e. GVW under 12k) transmission you're ever likely to work on. Thank you for watching, Jray!
question i have a 1995 k2500 but the rear speed sensor is there but no harness connector, this vehicle was stolen and not wont go into any gear, would this be a problem?
Hi Armando, thanks for watching. If it won't engage at all in 'Drive', D3, D2 or Manual Low (D1) or Reverse (i.e. it's neutral in all gears) then it's likely the overdrive roller clutch as failed in the unit. There is no working rear speed sensor in a 1995 4WD 4L80E...The rear speed sensors were eliminated in all 4WD 4L80Es starting in 1994. You only have the input speed sensor and transfer case vehicle speed sensor for 1994+ 4WD 4L80Es.
Have a 96 unit on bench out of motor home. Noticed no parking pawl or linkage and a bearing in the tail shaft housing? What do they use for a parking mechanism? On stock units, how big do you drill 2-3 when dual feeding? You mentioned anywhere or 60 thou gets aggressive quickly. Leave 1-2 alone? Like we talked before, leave out the reverse ball. You don't DF all units? Thanks again for your videos, learn something on every one!
You also mentioned Central Valve Bodies' AFL valve. What makes that special over a stock one. Does this restore low vacuum reading or does that still require reaming with new valve?
Hi Steve, those motor home/box truck/school bus units had the drum-style parking brake bolted to the extension housing (they used a different ext housing that was organic to that application). Feed orifice sizing depends on converter stall, vehicle weight, cam grind/profile, rear gears and driver preferences but shift start to get real firm/harsh beyond about .065 with a stock converter in a daily driver. I don't DF all units, just anything that will see HP or very HD use.
You mentioned Central Valve Bodies’ AFL. Did find on their site it’s a bit oversized. Do they work? Don’t have the Sonnax plate but made a small plate that I can vacuum check circuits per Sonnax chart. The last 80e I did had a low ACV and replaced VB. H oh w well do these valves work?
Hey I’m rebuilding a 96 4l80e this very moment. I’m assembling my direct drum but I want to leave my wave plate out. In order to get my proper clearance could I just use a old steel in place of the wave plate or do I have to order thicker steels?
Thanks for watching, thomas. Ive heead folks doing what you're thinking of doing. If you can run oversized (thicker) steels, that would be ideal but if not, a second, old steel of .090 should be fine if it gets you the clearance you need.
@@nickstransmissions so just to be clear. Stacking 2 steels on top of each other won’t hurt anything? I really don’t see how it would but Maybe I’m missing something. And where the best place to put the 2 steels together? Or does that not matter either
Yes, it should be fine but Ive never done it so cant say with 100% certainty however i dont think there's any reason to be concerned. GM stacked two flat steels together in the 200-4R's overdrive clutch so cant be all that bad . Put both flat steels on the bottom then a clutch, steel, clutch, etc.
Tech Notes: ATSG states the wiring harness changed in 1993; torque compensator feed eliminated after 1993; however, if you have a 1991-1993 model year unit that has the earlier harness/VB, you can install a Rosta harness, part number 34446AK (works on all years 1991-2003), updated BW non-vented solenoid and adapt the VB and plate to work with the updated EPC (See Transgo link for instructions below). Valve bodies that use the initial vented electronic pressure control solenoid (EPC), produced by Bosch, will need to be adapted to work with the updated Borg Warner/Holly EPC. See page 5 of Transgo's SK-4L80E shift kit instructions on how to do this procedure: res.cloudinary.com/transgo/wbiss/sk/SK4L80E.pdf
The front planet will interchange between 1991-1998 units but not with 99+
Glad you are doing this video.
Thanks, Wilburn!
Great work, thank you. Will be getting into one of my 1995’s soon. 🔥
You're welcome, 34k5 and thank you for watching!
Awsome Video
Thanks, man!
I went with a 62 or 64 thousand on all of my feed holes in my 1991 V3500 crew cab with a 1993 transmission in it. I did internal dual feed my trans, but it seems to shift just fine from 2 to 3 with the stock 800 RPM stall speed converter. I also used Sonnax plastic check balls in all the stock positions.
Cool, that's the direction I'll take with this one. I'm assuming you meant 1800 stall? If not, correct me if I'm wrong.
@@nickstransmissions I believe with my 1-ton truck it is supposed to be 800 RPM. I had my OEM torque converter rebuilt by a local guy with billet clutch, billet stator, and new clutch material. I had him over-build my torque converter for it use. He said he kept it at the stock stall speed of 800 RPM.
What engine is in your truck? Do you have 6.2 or 6.5 Duramax diesel? If so, you would have a GM81 torque converter which is an early low stall for the Duramax diesels and some gas big blocks at the time. I've actually never done a diesel 4L80E and admittedly don't know much about those platforms but I'd still check on that stall speed as it seems low...I'd figure it should be 1200-1400 or so but can certainly be wrong. If you'd like I will ask my converter builder later today and reply back; he will know for sure what the factory stall range is for any given GM or Chevy motor.
@@nickstransmissions My 1991 V3500 crew cab came with a 350 TBI/4L80E/NP205/14-bolt rear/dana-60 front. I am only going with what the guy that rebuilt my torque converter told me it was. My truck is a last year square body, and is the only year square body that came with a 4L80E over drive transmission.
If you have a SBC 350 TBI-based gas engine, you should have a 1600-1800 stall converter. I'd double check with your converter guy to confirm...I occasionally have custom low-stall converters done for folks w/small blocks or diesel engines who use the vehicles for towing/hauling heavier loads and those are 1200-1400 stall, depending on type and engine size/displacement.
I had someone tell me that the output planet surface is supposed to be a little rough with the early style reverse band. When I built my early style 4L80E it had some grooving, but not as bad as yours. I could not get a finger nail to catch on it, but a small amount of grooving was visible.
It can be a little rough but it's not super critical...When I have them turned, the surface is rough in appearance and slightly rough to the touch which makes for a perfect mating surface for the band. Same holds true for the direct drum and reverse input drum in the 4L60Es/700R4s and direct in the 200-4Rs. I will sometimes use a sheet of 400 grit sand paper to clean up good used drums that aren't otherwise warped.
I don't know if I will watch this but thanks for putting it out there. Free like's and replies to bump your channel's popularity at any rate!
There was a difference in the 91 to 93 Pressure Control Solenoid. The 91 to 93 Pressure solenoid is no longer available, and the updated one from 94 on is the only one available. The 91 to 93 valve body has to have a small vent hole drilled in it, in order to use the updated 94 on pressure control switch. The Trans Go shift kit instructions actually mentions this (oops! later in the video you mention this. Jumped the gun). Also, the 91 to 92 internal harness was different from the 93 on updated internal harness, and the external wire harness has to be modified to work with the updated 93 on internal harness. Luckily you have a 94 4L80E so you will not have to deal with any of this.
Thanks for watching, Christopher. You're correct with your info. I also believe the 91-92 cases were slightly different as well for those first two years. Adapting the 91-92 units to work with the 93-02 BW epc is not a big deal, just involves drilling the hole for epc vent that wasnt present. The Rostra harness for the will service all those years (91-03) as well. I have a link to Transgo's instructions in the description but thinking to pin a copy of those links/tech notes in the comments since many dont read the description and may not see the links.
@@nickstransmissions-The way I look at it, if folks don’t read the description that’s their loss 🤷🏼♂️ keep up the good work sir 👍🏻
Nick, I got myself in a pickle. I managed to break the retaining pin that holds in the shift linkage. It was magnetic so I tried welding a nut to it so I could pull it out but it made the nail brittle. Have you had any luck removing the broken nail without ruining the case?
Damn, man - that sucks....Had that happen to me years ago...The machine shop was able to get it out but took quite a bit of time. I don't know exactly how they did it but I believe the drilled a counter-sink around the nail to get enough exposure on it to yank it.
Great video! You mention another similar teardown video for the later model 4L80e. I can’t seem to find that video. Can you help me out? Thanks for the great content!
Hey Chris, thank you for watching and for the compliments...I actually haven't yet published that video, though it was filmed shortly before the one you watched...I see if I can get it on the channel soon...I'll definitely be putting out more 4L80E content in the near future as I have a couple builds coming up in early June....
2005 Surburban 8.1 4L80E, whines like it has an eaton blower, 1st to second. Shifts fine, clunks into reverse 8 out of10 times. Does it need a service, flush or is torque converter going bad ?
Hi AffordablePC1...I'd plug in a bidirectional scan tool, bring up live transmission data then take for a test drive...Look at things like shift speed, TCC slip speed, especially when in third and fourth gear cruising...Duty cycle will be higher once the TCC is on/applied...If slip speed is greater than 10RPM or so while duty cycle is high, the converter clutch is slipping...If you're only getting whine early, it could be converter's stator or bearing whine that simply goes unnoticed beyond a certain speed. Reverse clunk is somewhat normal, they can be abrupt when engaging reverse.
Another option is to go underneath, unbolt the torque converter and spin it in place on the transmission while listening for any noises being made...It helps if you have a mechanic's stethoscope when doing this test.
If it's coming from inside the transmission, it could be your overdrive planetary carrier pinion gears/needle bearings...If they're worn you'll hear a whirling/whining noise coming from the front of the transmission.
I’m about to search for a video for the bushing removal on the 4L 60 E Stator shaft I have a homemade tool that my dad made 50 years ago, but it has gotten misplaced
Just grab a blind hole bushing/bearing puller set off eBay for $50.00 or so. Will pretty much handle every light duty vehicle (i.e. GVW under 12k) transmission you're ever likely to work on. Thank you for watching, Jray!
question i have a 1995 k2500 but the rear speed sensor is there but no harness connector, this vehicle was stolen and not wont go into any gear, would this be a problem?
Hi Armando, thanks for watching. If it won't engage at all in 'Drive', D3, D2 or Manual Low (D1) or Reverse (i.e. it's neutral in all gears) then it's likely the overdrive roller clutch as failed in the unit.
There is no working rear speed sensor in a 1995 4WD 4L80E...The rear speed sensors were eliminated in all 4WD 4L80Es starting in 1994. You only have the input speed sensor and transfer case vehicle speed sensor for 1994+ 4WD 4L80Es.
Have a 96 unit on bench out of motor home. Noticed no parking pawl or linkage and a bearing in the tail shaft housing? What do they use for a parking mechanism? On stock units, how big do you drill 2-3 when dual feeding? You mentioned anywhere or 60 thou gets aggressive quickly. Leave 1-2 alone? Like we talked before, leave out the reverse ball. You don't DF all units? Thanks again for your videos, learn something on every one!
You also mentioned Central Valve Bodies' AFL valve. What makes that special over a stock one. Does this restore low vacuum reading or does that still require reaming with new valve?
Hi Steve, those motor home/box truck/school bus units had the drum-style parking brake bolted to the extension housing (they used a different ext housing that was organic to that application). Feed orifice sizing depends on converter stall, vehicle weight, cam grind/profile, rear gears and driver preferences but shift start to get real firm/harsh beyond about .065 with a stock converter in a daily driver. I don't DF all units, just anything that will see HP or very HD use.
Thanks! What about that AFL valve? Their site doesn’t say anything about it.
You're welcome - whose site are you referring to?
Do you have a Sonnax vacuum test machine to test the AFL circuit?
You mentioned Central Valve Bodies’ AFL. Did find on their site it’s a bit oversized. Do they work? Don’t have the Sonnax plate but made a small plate that I can vacuum check circuits per Sonnax chart. The last 80e I did had a low ACV and replaced VB. H oh w well do these valves work?
Hey I’m rebuilding a 96 4l80e this very moment. I’m assembling my direct drum but I want to leave my wave plate out. In order to get my proper clearance could I just use a old steel in place of the wave plate or do I have to order thicker steels?
When I say replace the wave plate with a steel I meaning stacking steel steel clutch steel clutch steel clutch until the drum is full
Thanks for watching, thomas. Ive heead folks doing what you're thinking of doing. If you can run oversized (thicker) steels, that would be ideal but if not, a second, old steel of .090 should be fine if it gets you the clearance you need.
@@nickstransmissions so just to be clear. Stacking 2 steels on top of each other won’t hurt anything? I really don’t see how it would but Maybe I’m missing something. And where the best place to put the 2 steels together? Or does that not matter either
Yes, it should be fine but Ive never done it so cant say with 100% certainty however i dont think there's any reason to be concerned. GM stacked two flat steels together in the 200-4R's overdrive clutch so cant be all that bad .
Put both flat steels on the bottom then a clutch, steel, clutch, etc.
@@nickstransmissions thank you so much. I’ll let u know how it’s holding up later this year. Also keep up the videos there very good and lots of help!
First!