4L80E Lube Mods
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2023
- I walk the viewer through the different lubrication mods that should be done on 4L80Es upon overhaul, especially if the transmission is being installed into a high performance or heavy duty use vehicle.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Hello again and thanks again for this video. I have referred to it several times and would bet you it will have many views.
The reason I'm commenting is to tell you a quick story (as quick as possible) as to why I am afraid of some of the holes or size. This is my first transmission rebuild.
About 30 years ago I bought a dodge dakota for $300 with a blown motor. I think it was an 87?? I can't remember. I found a low mileage motor by luck for $100! When I picked it up I found it was fuel injection whereas mine was carb. I planned to simply put my carb, heads, and intake on the fuel injected one. Everyone said it wouldn't work.
I did it anyhow. Upon starting, at first, sounded fine. Within 10 minutes I burned up all of the rocker arms. Turns out, they moved the oil holes which lubricate the rocker arm assembly.
I put an elbow fitting on the back of the engine to the oil pressure sending unit then ran brake lines down through each valve cover and tapped into the rail on which the rocker arms pivot to oil via a new route. (all of this after putting different rocker arms on, of course). I started the motor and realized the gauge registered no oil pressure. Turns out the oil was flowing straight through the rocker arms not allowing any pressure to build in the other components.
I put a ball valve from plumbing in line after the elbow, turned the handle until I got a little over 30 pounds of oil pressure then removed the handle.
I drove that dakota for 13 years like that until the frame rusted out. I remember blowing the mind of some super dodge technician upon learning of it.
I'm afraid of drilling a hole and allowing too much oil to flow, which will lower pressure somewhere. If you look at the holes in the sunshaft, for example. The later ones are much smaller than the older ones. Perhaps with restriction in mind.
I know all of your modifications are everywhere on line and I thank you very much for this video. The drain one on the pump is an obvious improvement. I wonder, though, when not increasing line pressure with that sonnax spring if some of the other ones will cause harm. Incidentally, the sonnax pressure regulator spring is 12.69 lbs at 1.235", transgo white is 15.56, green in 18.74, and blue is 17.58,. I would think hole size should coincide with the aforementioned-along with other stuff. I wonder about shimming my stock one, but find nothing about it.
Believe me, I'm, not trying to find fault. In fact, I'd rather praise you for doing what others havent. I'm just sharing information in hopes of improving all of us.
Hi, thank you for watching and sharing your experience - appreciate it...That said, engine oiling circuitry is not necessarily a direct apples to apples comparison to what's happening in a 4L80E's internal lube circuitry since you had made a fundamental change to the lube design (shifting the hole locations) by swapping parts... In this case, you're simply enlarging a few holes and making one new one for line-to-lube.
Though you do make a good point about the sun gear and/or sun gear shaft lube holes and I do not drill those for that reason as lube design engineering changes have them different than earlier designs for a reason. I've never drilled those parts out and tested it to see if there was any benefit so did not include it in this video.
As far as everything else is concerned, only do what you're comfortable doing and nothing more. DO NOT drill the little .055 line-to-lube hole if you're going to install the Sonnax line to lube pressure regulator valve as that lube feature is already designed into the valve. Beyond that, the lube mods I show are primarily for high performance or more serious heavy duty applications and not necessary for anything less than that.
Thanks again for watching!
I love this video!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥
Awesome, man!
Awesome man!
On the Direct drum bleed holes. I have been drilling on a drill press from the other side. If you measure .442 from the outer edge it puts the hole in a perfect spot. Saves a lot of drill bits.
Good info, thanks Mr_Robot!
The .442 method worked flawlessly. Thanks for the tip
@@DaltonKirtley your welcome.
Do you ever do the line to lube mod in the th400 pump? I've read about it, but haven't seen it promoted.
I actually havent to be honest. I occasionally use the Sonnax PR valve.
I'm impressed. I am rebuilding my 2500hd I've owned over 10 years and hope to get another 10. I've decided to not do most of the mods everyone else does (dual feed, rollerize rear, transgo shift) but will nervously do these, I think. I am getting that boost valve for the pump.
I have a manual that recommends drilling a hole in the case: "Drill a 1/8"-3/16" hole through the case wall. This will offer a larger exhaust for the reverse boost oil that has cross-leaked into the torque signal circuit (figure three)" This came from a 1994 technical bulletin #264. It lists 4 solutions to stop the reverse boost oil from too much pressure that breaks the case.
Should I do this?
If your wondering, the other 3 solutions are to change the boost valve, check the separator plate and gaskets, and Replace the force motor to one without a screen.
I'm going as cheap as I can without putting Chinese crap in it. (yes, I said it).
I cannot find anything on this subject.
I bought a used one from facebook for $150. I thought about just putting it in my truck but decided a $150 tranny from a guy who knows nothing about it may be wasted effort, so I tore it apart (and watched 200 videos on the subject). This thing is like new! I rigged up a vacuum tester for the valve body and it is, once again, like new! I thought the planets got a little hot and may need attention so I went to a tranny shop and he said to just put it all right back together and go with it. So I bought news seals and gaskets. Then I bought Warner clutches. Then I bought Durobond essential bushing (9 of them) and a new set of bushing drivers. Then I bent one of the return springs with my big press so I bought a cheap table top press. Now I decided to get the most miles out of it (got 500k out of a car once) I should change any moving bearing so all sprags and thrust bearings.
I should have just thrown it in the truck after getting it from facebook. Someone needs to pull me away from this thing.
Anyhow, should I drill that tranny recommended by the technical bulletin?
Hey man, thank you for watching and great question! The ATRA manual provides that as one of four options to address run-away line pressure risk in the 4L80E which is caused exactly as you describe above. And as you mention, the Sonnax 4L80-LB1 also addresses this concern in combination with the use of the 2nd design EPC (electronic pressure control solenoid) which is usually sufficient if working on a later model case...ATRA specifies that you will want to drill the hole as described when you are having to use first design spacer plate to case gasket when using a second design spacer plate. So it's up to you if you want to drill the case but I'm not sure it's super necessary if you've already done the other three things. ATRA also mentions is drilling out the pressure regulator balance orifice in the pump cover to .070-.075 and checking for a cracked PR cup plug to further mitigate overpressure risk.
Unless you're racing or doing something high performance or super HD towing/hauling, you don't need to dual feed..I would rollerize the rear of the case (it cost $10). You don't need any shift kits for the 4L80E, in fact I'd strongly advise you or anyone else reading this from installing any of Transgo's shift kits (esp the HD2) due to the HD2 sandwich-style rivet plate that cross-leaks and their pressure relief mechanism that occasionally fails, burning up the transmission.
Install a HD snap ring for your intermediate clutch pack (Chrysler A518 snap ring @.088" usually works well - $4)
I'll do a separate video on the topic of your question sometime in Nov or Dec as it's def worth discussing...
@@nickstransmissions Great answer as well! Thank you very much. BTW I've watched many of your videos and you have found your calling. Good for you. I subscribed today.
Something I've been wondering:
I see that while pulling a trailer in Drive and I go to pass someone, I should put the tranny in 3rd. I only realized this while digging into our subject. I found that there are expensive kits that insure you don't forget to downshift and put all that load on the poor little planets. Can a transmission be, instead, programmed with a computor so that when I push the button for towing and the dash icon appears, it doesn't allow overdrive???? I know not everyone would want this, but in the extremely hilly area in which I live I would definitely use it.
Thanks for subscribing, man! I believe most truck PCMs have a 'tow/haul' mode that, depending on make/model, will either lock out overdrive or increase line pressure and/or apply overrun or other clutch packs/bands to bring additional 'hands' into the mix to help share the load. You should be able to update/change the transmission shift strategy parameters using HPTuners or other software but admittedly, I only have a rudimentary knowledge of the software and programming side of things. For now, def stay in 'D3' when towing, esp when negotating grades (up or down) to help keep the transmission out of danger.
Also, if you do frequent towing, change the fluid once every 12-24k miles or even more frequently, depending on the typical workload/pattern if necessary.
Hi Nick. Love you videos. Im currently rebuilding a pre 97 4l80e following your hi performance 4l80 series and was wanting to ask do you do all these same lube mods aside from the dual feed and pump drain back when using the sure cure kit ? Thanks in advance
Thanks for the kind words, Johnathan!
I usually don't buy the entire zip kit but if you're going to install the Sonnax pressure regulator valve that comes in that kit, do not drill the .055 line to lube hole in the pump cover/stator support as the Sonnax valve is already designed to provide full time line-lube. Only drill that hole if re-using the factory valve.
@nickstransmissions thank you for the quick reply. The sure cure kit came with a new boost valve. Per the directions it says to reuse the oe pressure regulator valve. Should i replace the pressure regulator valve as well ?
If it vacuum on the factory PR valve checks weak, replace it with the Sonnax PR valve and re-test. Otherwise you can run it and drill the .055 hole.
These modifications will help in the early models also?
Primarily late models but some apply to both Gen 1 and Gen 2 4L80Es. Thank you for watching, Al!
Nick, ive drilled the 1/4" hole on the pump body (the last drilled hole in the video) but i was a little shallow on the angle and the drill bit has taken a scallop out of the pump body (I hope you can visualize wbat im taling about) have i ruined the pump?
Not sure, would have to see it...Take a short youtube vid, upload it and reply back with the link and I'll take a look, offer my opinion.
Thanks for watching, man.
@@nickstransmissions czcams.com/video/8U3adj0Y3kc/video.html
Take a video of the pump body and post it here (you only showed the stator) - try not to move around so much, either...Put the camera on a tripod for stability if that helps - also take it from ALL angles..
I'll try to look at it later but it will prob be tomorrow before I can respond...
@@nickstransmissions My mistake Nick, I do mean the stator, rather than the pump body, I was confused. That one hole on the stator is the one that has a minor scallop taken out of it. All the other lube mod holes are good to go, and match your video's instructions
Hmmm....I don't think that divot will be an issue since it didn't cut all the way through to the sealing ring but you won't know for sure until you install and run it...
Hi Nick, How do I remove the forward drum inner seal that is pressed in? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks dave.
Don't worry about that seal...It's there to soften engagement into Drive from either Park or Reverse.
Some will remove it with a slide hammer and special attachment, others use a pry bar so it's up to you if you want to replace it.
@@nickstransmissions Thanks again for the help. I going to run trans brake so I will remove it or at least cut the rubber seal on preesed in part.
Yep, if running a trans brake you def don't want that seal in there. If you have a two jaw puller and bushing driver of the appropriate size, you should be able to pull it off...
@@nickstransmissions Thanks.
Nick found my old 3 leg USA made puller it came right out. Used a head flat washer and a round bushing. Thanks again it have searched and did not find anyone who removed it before
Do sell the video on the 4L80E transmission rebuilding this great 👍 video on CZcams
thanks for the kind words, Dennis!
These lubes mods are intended for 91-96 4l80e?
Hi Omar, you can do lube mods on any year 4L80e however I wouldnt go any wider than 1/8" (.125) on anything in the gear train or od sprag lube port. Keep the line-to-lube hole in the pump cover .055" and drill the pump body drain back to 1/4" (.250).
Hello again. Is there an issue if the pump body drain back has been enlarged to 9/32"?
Nah - I'd be shocked if you have issues due to it being 9/32" as opposed to 8/32"....Probably be a little better if the trans will see lots of high RPM.
Hello, can you tell me if I can use dual feed if I have a trans go hd2 kit in my transmission?
Hi Victor, thank you for watching.
If you have that kit installed and are going to be rebuilding the transmission, I'd simply swap out the Transgo HD2 separator plate and install a factory plate, drilling the feed holes as per your application and preferences. If that stupid-assed pressure relief mod that Transgo furnishes with those kits has also been installed, remove it and either tig weld or JB Weld the hole shut. The rest of the kit can be left in or put back if you're going to be rebuilding the unit.
HD2 was already installed before me. The pressure relief plate is also installed. I live in Russia, there are very few spare parts for the 4l80e. The plate is not available for free sale. What is so bad about HD2? And yet I can use it with a double feed?
Thank you for your work and for your videos! This is very valuable information, thanks again!
@@nickstransmissions
You're welcome, man!
Since the supply chain is vastly smaller there than over here, keep the parts installed...The primary problem with the HD2 is that pressure relief mod...It's designed to provide for relief in the event the electronic pressure control solenoid fails and allows un-regulated, full line pressure to go to the solenoids and, consequently, applied elements. Running the trans at max line pressure will eventually break parts including the case lugs at the intermediate clutch. However the EPC rarely fails, assuming it's a Borg Warner OEM solenoid...4L80Es are vulnerable to high line pressure but the source is usually the boost valve and sleeve wearing and sticking wide open, which when making it to the EPC, will activate that pressure relief mod. So, theoretically, its a great idea...
The problem with the design is that the little spring occasionally fails, resulting in the plunger no longer sealing the hole drilled in the valve body, causing massive line pressure loss and burn up of the transmission. The other problem is the hole itself...The proper function of that mechanism is predicated on the hole in the valve body being drilled perfectly round and perpendicular. Many times that's not the case since not everyone will have a proper drill press....
The other issue is the riveted sandwich-style separator plate...I've seen a few 4L80Es come in with all clutch packs burnt, pressure relief mechanism working/intact and no other causes apart from cross-leaks through that plate. Many other builders like Jake's Performance also cite this as an issue. It's not quite as common as a failed pressure relief valve mechanism but it can happen.
If the trans is working fine and you cannot readily source replacement parts, then keep it in but monitor the trans closely for any anomalies...If you're going to rebuild the trans, keep a very close eye for clutch wear-burn signs on clutch packs with no other identifiable sources. Also check the forward drum for inner diameter bore wear/grooves cut into the bore by sealing rings.
You're now informed as to it's downsides so know what to do if problems associated with that mechanism arises...The rest of the kit is perfectly fine.
Also, do NOT dual-feed the direct clutch internally if you're going to keep the Transgo HD2 kit installed as it dual feeds that clutch via their separator plate.
@@nickstransmissions
The 4th was slipping a little. overrun burned out badly. forward burned to the ground! direct was slipping a little. boosted lq4, I towed 4 ton quite quickly. A few days before, in the forest, I tore off the oil cooling hose with a branch. All the oil has completely drained out! the year before this I also lost all the oil. but it worked. This guy survived two oil losses, but the towing killed him. thank you very much for your help! There are very few good craftsmen in Russia who can make 4L80.