The Lovable Misogynist Trope and Donald Trump
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2017
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Why wasn't Donald Trump's blatant and unashamed misogyny a deal breaker for voters? I argue it has a lot to do with the ways pop culture, especially television sitcoms, work to normalizes sexist behavior.
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Writer/Producer: Jonathan McIntosh
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Why do people use terms like "politically correct" to dismiss the mere concept of human decency?
On the topic of objectification, I couldn't help but notice that when talking about a female victim (I believe it was a woman who was both raped and murdered) Trump made note of the fact that she was beautiful. This isn't really exclusive to Trump, in fact it is all too common, but it is something I find odd. You'll always hear female murder victims mourned as being "beautiful" as if all that was lost to the world was their looks. You will never hear a male victim called "handsome" by a politician when they express sadness about their death.
If a woman was making this analysis, she would be bashed in the comments for it as an angry feminazi. A man is praised for it, the men listen to him, the women praise him for being so insightful. But you know what? I'm glad it's a man speaking out about this here. We need men to speak out against misogyny if we ever want to reach equality because we women just aren't taken seriously.
Same goes when Men points out the hypocrisy and bad behaviours of women.
I actually work with a "lovable sitcom misogynist." They're a lot less charming in real life.
By labeling his sexist remarks as "locker room talk" he's essentially saying, "in my defense, you weren't supposed to HEAR me insulting you." rather than offering any kind of apology or learning anything about how his behaviour was wrong.
Every time I remember him saying he thinks his daughter is attractive makes me physically ill.
I work as a barista, and my area happens to have a ton of elderly living nearby. I see so many old men in one day. And I can't tell you how many men say things like, "Hey, how 'bout you show me one o' those pretty smiles, hun?" or, "If I was thirty years younger, whew! Watch out," or, "You are just so gorgeous, can you spin around for me?" It's disgusting. One man of about eighty-five kept trying to get me to go to the movies with him, to a boat show, and one particularly memorable time he crept up right behind me and whispered in my ear to come check out his new car with him, c'mon, let's just go. It was disturbing beyond belief.
You get these kinds of comments from some younger men, too, but old men in particular have a tendency to think it's okay to say these things because they're old and it's 'charming'. They're 'harmless' now, they can get away it. It is just disturbing and really stomach churning, and if I never have to be hit on by someone older than my grandfather again, it will be too soon.
There's nothing lovable about this type of misogyny.
I don't find anything about him remotely 'lovable'- he's not funny, he's not charming, he's not smart, he's not suave, he's not cool, he's not attractive, he's not interesting, he's not a nice man, he's not well-meaning. He's repulsive in every single way.
Interesting that in two cases, Barney and Sheldon, the characters with sexist attitudes and behaviors are played by gay men. It adds a whole other nuance to the discussion, especially since their roles were celebrated in the sense of "See?! Gays can play straight people just fine! Equality!" When, in reality, their roles do much of the opposite; they dress up their strengthening of the patriarchy as "progress and equality". Gay men are just as capable of misogyny as straight men, and they don't get a free pass just because they're an oppressed group as well.
When I was younger and had a terrible taste in humor, I actually enjoyed The Big Bang Theory as a girl. But it was because I believed that no man actually talked like that. I had never heard anyone say such absurdist things. But the internet opened up a wider avenue for me to meet more people, and it changed from funny to terrifying to see there were men that talked like Sheldon unironically about women. Most often using some form of psuedoscience to explain why women were more flawed because of their hormones or more hogwash such as that. It's just creepy.
I'm actually relieved that the comment section here isn't ridiculous as the others I've stumbled across.
It is super refreshing to find a man speaking these truths about misogyny and masculinity in such a sensible way.
Thank you for this. I don't think many men understand how wearying it is for a woman to watch entertainment and constantly be told the message,"You're a woman. Therefore you suck." It's depressing and discouraging.
Stern: "I mean, you're daughter she's uh... she's a piece of ass."
Trump: "Yeah."
Real conversation he had with Howard Stern, I'll never forget hearing it and then realising that he would be the president. Thank fuck he's gone now.
This reminds me of an interview long ago with Dave Chappelle about one of the reasons he ended his show. Essentially he started noticing that his satire was being misunderstood by some to the point it was actually reinforcing the behavior he was satirizing. The show became toxic for him in other ways as well, but there is an idea that we a society don't really get satire or that we're so innudating with it that it becomes an acceptable trope.
I always thought it was dangerous to always have the sexist guy on TV. So many TV shows and movies have the sexist, sex obsessed character who is 'comic relief' but all it does is normalise assholes. Excellent video
Literally so hard to not be an angry feminist when you're constantly bombarded with sexist shit in the media. It's so hard to get away from it. I'm mad because I'm sad and it's few and far inbetween where I find a guy like you that understands this concept. Thank you for understanding; it makes this angry feminist just a little bit less angry hahahah
Really good analysis. A creepy reality we live in.
I believe discussion of men and masculinity is crucial to the development and progression of feminism, and it is so awesome to see you, among others, discuss gender equality in relation to men in an incredibly measured, analytical and sensitive way. Thank you.
I think that most mental disorders hide behind a mask of addiction , and I believe that bullying is an addiction to violence , and the chemistry that it brings forth in the system . When an entire section of the population ( women ) becomes a punching bag free throw zone , both men and women can cover up their psychosis inside of that arena . I do not believe that this behavior has anything to do with being a "Man" - I think it has to do with being a narcissist , also known as King Baby . Women also can have this syndrome , and behave in the same misogynistic manner towards their own self or to their own daughters . The person with a psychosis will gravitate towards a socially acceptable area of bullying to practice their psychosis , Be it war on women , or just plain old war , if it is socially acceptable they will engage .
Thank you! I've experienced so many sexist encounters, sometimes nearly every day of my life. When I try to call them out, all I hear is "I was just playing", "lighten up", "just locker room talk", and I've never been able to explain how the "joking" and "triviality" of these remarks and actions somehow still felt so damaging and unhealthy. This put it into words.
Brings up the point of "It's just a joke". One joke or a few might be fine, but when it is normalized, some people don't realize it is a joke. The joke becomes normalized, and then continues to allow the problem to continue.
Huh, and here all these years I just thought that I was reading too much into shows like 30 Rock, Two and a Half Men and Big Bang Theory when I told my friends I couldn't stand watching them because I found their brand of humour repugnant. I could never place my finger on what bothered me about them; I just chalked it up to bad writing on their part and high expectations on mine. But I can see how this humour permeates throughout American culture and I guess subconsciously, I was always worried about its effects on society at large. You manage to tie the election of Donald Trump into all that and boom, I'm convinced; that style of humour is legitimately toxic and I'm not just a picky television consumer.
This is where British comedy excels, because the racist/sexist character usually gets his/her just desserts by the end of the show.
tl/dr: "sexism is not a big deal to most people because it is the norm and people take it for granted, to such an extent that they don't see how harmful it really is. in other words, people/society is misogynistic so why would anyone be that surprised by the manifestation of it? i'm certainly not"
Locker room talk isn't an excuse. Ever.
This was incredibly well explained. Also the shots of the Trump mask factory were pretty damn terrifying.
A lot of people say thay Barney is their favorite character in himym, but honestly I don't get what's so great about him, he's just a huge douche. And don't even get me started on Ted oh my god I could write an essay about how gross Ted is. Marshall is the only good character in that series
It's because he is played by Neil Patrick Harris. That is the only reason. He sells the role.
"Something that doesn't make them dangerous or scary" is a wonderful point.
When I've tried to explain the implicit threat I've been aware of personally since I was 8 years old (and men began cat calling; then at 9 when older boys at school started getting creepy, and at 10 when the weird rejection responses started) to men who were feigning incapability of grasping that experience, that's how they seemed to be rationalizing their world view, which seemed to say that all male attention is pleasant unless grotesquely violent.
Run on sentence is run on, but great video and thank you for your channel.
Super poignant, but sadly it also left a sort of pit in my stomach.
I'm not from USA and rarely I hear what that man says, but it's horrifying.
I agree, I think most people find statements like "grab them by the pussy" to be childish rather than frightening. Something a twelve year old boy rather than a rapist would say.
TieDef it's mostly childish,but in a world where women are attacked every day, it still frightens me
This video is like a breath of fresh air, thank you. So many people are extreamly unkind and don’t understand how sexism is harmful, it drives me crazy. If I talk about this stuff I’m just called an “sjw” simply because I disagree with trump and sexist attitudes. People are so divided
It's so weird I didn't even think that some of my favorite shows have extremely sexist characters. Especially as someone who despises misogyny and bigotry on a deep personal level.
You are a breath of fresh air.
I don't know if Pierce from Community really falls under that trope, since it is shown to jeopardise his friendships and have consequences.
Proud to NOT be an American! :)
It's interesting because most or all of these characters are supposed to be jokes and their misogyny is so obvious and over the top. I do agree with you though that there should be consequences for their sexisum.
you're a really good person, pop culture detective, and you're giving me hope for the world again
you're just amazing !!
Oh. My. Gosh. He. Is. So. Disgusting.
Sorry but "Donald Trump" and "lovable" cannot exist in the same sentence.
I think the big exception is Dennis from It's Always Sunny, since his sexism is framed as disgusting and egregious and his behavior always has negative consequences.
In my opinion, normalizing sexism goes hand and hand with rape culture and pedophilia.
Why haven’t I seen this before? Was CZcams hiding it from me?
I feel sick to my stomach when watching this video, the one about Big Bang Theory and the one about Harrison Ford for how gross the stuff I watch is. It makes me honestly hate them more now, especially 30 Rock, something I was gonna splurge on itunes but now I don't think so.
In this light it is kind of ironic that Alec Baldwin is playing Donald Trump on SNL. He doesn't have to stray that far of his character from 30 rock ;-)
He just blatantly gets away with anything
I never write comments, but I just found your videos and they are incredible! Please keep up with this kind of quality content. Your analysis of popular culture isn't riddled with bias, jokes, or exaggeration and we need more content creators like you!
Misogynist, yes
Lovable, no
How ironic that Alec Baldwin would later win an Emmy for his portrayal of Trump in SNL.
I just came back to celebrate that he's not the president anymore c:
"Normalization is what happens when the laugh track is missing from the absurd and the extreme for the sake of humor."
Good discussion- I was completely surprised and appalled by his election because I couldn't believe women voted for this guy after everything he said and did to put us down. The context you provided helps me understand that better. Not that I find it acceptable- I don't- but I do want to understand other points of view and how they come about.
I so despise that man...
This channel is just fucking amazing
Can anyone nominate an example of satirizing misogyny done right? "All in the Family," perhaps? Is it possible to do this successfully in a long running sitcom?
This makes for an interesting watch with 4 years of hindsight!
i appreciate how in the examples of the sitcoms you included lots of different approaches because the argument that only a certain type of man can be a misogynist gets thrown around too often, like ''oh he's a ladies man, that archetype is -supposed- to represent misogyny as a whole'', or the introverted nerd who ''just doesn't know better cause he hasn't got any real-world skills'' who, even though gets thrusted into all sorts of interactions and experiences, can sometimes remain insensible after the real world and it's just not mentioned again, and most of all, like in 30 rock and the equivalent of ''but i have a black friend'', that case in which just because you allow basic rights for women, like accepting them in the workplace, somehow has to mean at the same time that you are rid of and separate from any misogyny whatsoever, which is just not true.
tldr; just wanted to say i noticed the variety in your examples and i appreciate that you took the time to present such a broad view of the phenomenon
very insightful. thank you
it digust me how some woman like and vote trump.
Now, I love your videos, but they make me SO ANGRY. I just can't find a way to cope. Jesus.
This editing style is really good, actually. Keep it up!
This only became more poignant.
his eyebrows were so weird when he was younger
This is so important. More men need to be like you as allies.
Just discovered your channel and it feels like a breath of fresh air
And now we're here. 😑
You just might be the last decent and rational person left. The same could be said of his racist statements. People who are related to or close friends with racists honestly do not believe these racists are harmful or ill-willed. They are just quirky or lovable knuckle heads. But that doesn't hold up when the racist is a teacher or cop or person in charge of people they hold racist feelings against.
the comment on his daughter is beyond disgusting. i still don't get how people can support someone as repulsive as him.
all of your videos are excellent, i feel like i could show them to people i know who dont realise their bigotry and help them understand in small clear episodes. thank you :)
great episode
good break down, with good evidence! I find myself wondering all the time what is going on in the minds of trump voters, this gives some pretty solid insight.
This analysis gave me a braingasm. Simply in love with your channel. Congrats!!
You could literally do an entire video that is just Trump's lines with a laugh track by them and make an excellent point... At least, that is what stuck out most to me here. Great video though. It's brave to talk about sexism/misogyny on CZcams because it seems like most of the people on here don't think it is a real thing. I feel like, however, you would have a better likelihood of getting people to stave off judgement and just listen to what you have to say if you avoid words with bad connotations like misogyny and the like. I agree with you, so it doesn't bother me. However, I know what your critics are going to do, look at the word Misogyny and turn off their minds to an idea, and instead start searching for oversights. You make an excellent point, I just hope people will listen to it. They don't have to agree, but just listen and discuss to try and find some kind of common ground
I don't like the lovable misogynist type unless they're repeatedly punished for it.
Conversely, I love Sailor Mars because she doesn't like men... and isn't forced to change her opinion or punished for that.
Too often women who dislike men are made out to be fools or horrible people for thinking that, when there is usually a really good reason that is never addressed.
Great vid, solid analysis. I can imagine how much time and work it took, and wish more people would see this. Im guessing they don't because it is not monetized. CZcams don't promote it at all. As of today, 5 days after release, only 2958 views, thats about 40% of your subscribers. It deserves MUCH more, and I think if you turn ads on it will be promoted by youtube and thus get much more views. Sorry if inopportunely, just trying to help.
Tbh i always found Ted's misogyny way more insidious than Barney's.
I've never thought about sit coms like this! I'm so glad you made this video! It's so important to be made aware of things like this to help stop it!
I'm so glad I found your channel.
You did a great job in showing how benign, seemingly harmless sexism/misogyny is normalised in our society, and how we fail to realise the damage that it does cause. I know so many people, and sometimes fall into that pattern of thinking myself, who laugh at Barney Stinson or other ridiculously sexist characters, and who repeat quotes of their's which they think are fun, without ever considering that even though "they don't really mean it that way", they are contributing to a kind of unconscious perception of " normal male behaviour/talk" and also to the standards women are unconsciously being judged against (physical appearance, being an agreeable wife)..
Anyway, I love the way you're shedding light on the problem there, without hysterically laying the blame of moral abomination on any one set of people. Benign sexism is something that we grow up with; thanks for trying to make us understand and be aware of it!
I am french, thank you very much for articulate sooo nicely. Your videos are really interesting and I am happy that I can easily understand what you said.
fuck, the world´s scary
great vid tho
Love your channel :) I feel constantly bothered by some things in TV shows, etc, but I cant describe or understand what it is properly, especially when people treat it like it's nothing. But you help a lot. Thanks!
I'm utterly dejected.
Thank you for this video, reminded me why feminism is still so important
It feels like i should be getting missions from him in GTA.
THANKS FOR THIS!! Great content.
Incredibly well-written
I love how honest and real you are with all of this.
I sure would love to hear what Tina Fey's thoughts on this video would be. I absolutely adore 30 Rock (watched every episode at least 3 times), but never cared for Big Bang, largely because of the sexual humor in it that made me feel icky in ways that 30 Rock somehow didn't. I always thought I saw Jack Donaghey's sexism the way Fey intended, but now I can't deny that I also saw him as lovable, which I suppose was also intended. So this video kind of rocks my world. I remember what a tightrope Fey had to walk in response to the Tracy Morgan public homophobic slurs, and so I wonder what she would say to the accusation that her brilliantly funny show may have had some small role in enabling monsters like DJT.
When you say lovable misogynist, I automatically thought of Pierce from Community.
damn... the truth hurts
So much accurate that it's scary.
7:00 We gonna ignore him using air quotes on the phone?
Thank you so much for these videos.
I'm really happy I found your channel. This video made me feel like there's a big conspiracy going on, trying to make women the stay-at-home-wives hey used to be.
Oh this needs an update.
you are actually amazing
I really, really, Love your work and how is it so inteligent!
Your videos and opinions are clearly given their due consideration and are well researched, and I really love this channel, after having stumbled upon a few of your videos, each of which I enjoyed. Thanks for your hard work.
What a fantastic video, thank you so much for making and posting