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Star Trek: TNG Review - 6x23 Rightful Heir | Reverse Angle
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2022
- Kahless has returned, as it was foretold.
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Sources:
Moore, Ronald D. “Rightful Heir.” Star Trek: The Next Generation, created by Gene Roddenberry, Season 6, Episode 23, Paramount Television, CBS, 1993.
You guys haven't seemed to pick up on it (or haven't commented if you have) but the episodes you consistently like are the ones written by Ronald D Moore, including most of the Worf/Klingon focused ones.
He also did the writing for the best DS9 episodes
6:00 love his delivery of "What Colour Where His Eyes!"
Hahaha, yeah. Furious questioning. 👍🏽 I'd a mate who looked like Gowron. And also Gandalf The Grey. A Gowdalf, if you will.
Gowrons argument was weird. What does it matter if Kahless remembers pointless details of a man he only briefly spoke with in ancient times? Do they have a clone of him too in the back to compare with? Will they reunite and catch up on old times?
@@MLBlue30 True, if the memories he has are implanted then they are still memories. Also how can you verify an ancient memory?
the other thing is where do these memories come from are they synthesised memories?lol
@@MLBlue30 I think his mindset was that someone who struck Kahless's memories so strongly, you'd think one would remember better. Then again, I've met Donald Trump and Trump Jr. Shit I couldn't tell you their eye color right now.
Sadly the emporer only gets a mention in DS9's 4th season. I forget if they mention him in TNG, but we never see him again unfortunately.
Yeah, you'd think Kahless 2.0 with Martok and Worf would be a hell of a team up.
A reasonable conclusion to this Kahless’ story comes in the MMO Star Trek online.
Spoilers:
Kahless dies being stabbed through the chest by an Iconian after cutting its arm off with the Sword of Kahless.
@@JnEricsonx Yeah that could have been pretty sweet.
@@OverkillDM Well at least he went out like a boss.
@@OverkillDM Well, I clearly haven't played that mission in STO. Then again, I stopped playing for years. Of course, I found out that Gowron's grandfather is a major piece of shit to the point where Gowron offers my PC's help to kill the bastard to the KLINGON DEVIL.
I really like the episode where Kahless opens a shoe store.
Named after his more frugal brother Payless!
Vs Gowron Hubbard's "Today is a good to Dieanetics"
Setting fires in crew quarters is not as implausible as it seems as the Enterprise D was apparently capable of housing a wide variety of environments. In canon lore, there is a section of the ship that housed dolphins referred to as Cetacean Ops, which was referenced sparingly in TNG and the Lower Decks shows.
The dolphins are also mentioned in "The Ensign's Log" podcast
I think the better way to tell this story would have been to give Worf and Koroth history. Make him the one that spiritually mentored Worf and was the only person present for his first vision. When Worf has doubts he reaches out to Koroth who invites him there.
When Kahless appeared I'd have Koroth be just as skeptical, if not downright emotional, and be very opposed to the idea it could be real. That way when Kahless remembers Worfs vision it can be a massive convincing moment for Worf, as only Koroth knows and he trusts him, especially since Koroth is acting as if he doesn't believe either. Have Worf tell Koroth about the vision and have him act all amazed and convinced as well and then when Garon shows up and calls Koroth out for manipulating Worf it would be a moment of huge tension and conflict for Worf. It wouldn't just be the Empire that would be torn in two, but Worf....does he follow his king or his prophet? His friend or his leader?
When Garon defeats Kahless Worf realises he's been played.
To finish I'd have Kahless freak out from realising he's a clone and stab Koroth.
Then as he dies in Worfs arms he ask him why and he replies "I waited my whole life for his return. To save us from the corruption. The lies. In the end I wasn't sure I believed he could save us. But there was one Klingon I still believed could do it, if only our people could be made to follow. One who could restore honour, unite us, teach us what it meant to be truly klingon. I believed...in you Worf"
"Hail Martok! Leader of the Empire. Leader of Destiny." - Worf
@@conroypawgmail "great men do not seek power, but have power thrust upon them" - Kahless
Gowron: "WHAT COLOUR WERE HIS EYES?!" *death stare*
In the end, the real Kahless was the friends we made along the way.
"Yeah, I met this guy once..."
"What was he WEARING?! How TALL was he?! What COLOR were his EYES?!"
I liked this episode ... I think Worf is one of the best characters on the show. He's had some of the best character development of anyone. As a young orphaned Klingon raised by humans, he emersed himself in Klingon culture and history. Trying to live an idealized version of what he studied, he slowly realizes that the Klingon sense of honor and duty is not as cut and dry as he believed as he comes into more and more contact with actual Klingons. and sees the corruption and deception happening behind closed doors ...
I'm never disappointed to see a Worf-centered episode, especially when it has early Gowron in it. That said, I liked this episode but it was flawed. There's no way the monks really thought this was gonna pass the sniff test. Didn't they know that someone would eventually challenge him to a fight--they are Klingons after all... The writing didn't help either because there's no way that a clone with implanted memories would be able to tell someone about an experience that they never shared with anyone. Were they trying to suggest that the image Worf saw years ago was also the clone??
Yes, for these reasons, I can't put this episode in the A tier or even the B tier. I have this one as a C+. The Klingons should have killed him as an abomination, not made him a figurehead leader. How many Klingons were going to rally to a clone, simply because this *may* have been the way they fulfill the prophecy? I guess they had him appear to Worf because his Starfleet instincts would have been to validate the illusion. I took the 'I appeared to you as a child' to be a lucky guess, since a lot of Klingon children probably make that claim due to cultural pressure.
Kahless CloneSource: doesn't it feel good to Kahless
Need a video podcast of you guys.
Gowron was awesome. I look forward to you both reviewing DS9 ...in 2089
Whoah, this episode. Good review, as always. Plenty of detail on the plot and arches.
I'm not a big fan of these clones come back to life type stories. This one is no exception. The premise of recreating the past through cloning sounds ridiculous. For one to recreate the past, you would need to go back in time and witness the actual event, where all variables are the same as the original event.
So from the get-go, the plot is implausible (to me). I don't mind how they tried to handle the clone, nor how the main Klingon characters reacted (with a couple of exceptions), yet the ultimate outcome of excepting the clone as a figurehead feels forced and unlikely (especially in a warrior-based society). It would have been better for the plot to accept the clone as a clone and write him off to obscurity (outskirts of society, cult) or straight out kill him off.
Since I'm not a big fan of this concept, nor the ending arches I think a C seems fair since they did seem to ground this concept somewhat with a plausible action outcome, and this concept is always interesting (in the mind's eye) however, it seems implausible that a warrior-death societal leader (he just defeated) would kneel before a clone. If I was Galron (and only if I'm Galron...attempting to avoid any psychopath comments here, 😁) I'm likely going to serve that head up on a spike.
FYI, they addressed your main issue. All memories were implanted.
@@macmcleod1188 Thanks for the comment. I don't think my main problem has anything to do with memory implants, it's really about me putting myself in the shoes of the Klingons in the episode. They want to believe in Kahless and see him in visions. This smacks, quite frankly, of religious undertones. This, for me, is the hard-to-believe part.
if they made a similar episode today, theres no way kahless would live to see the end of the episode. they would totally kill that dude
There is room for only one god in Star Trek and it's Stacey Abrams.
Probably with eyeball or two removed in the process.
2:01-The church I used to go to!
Yo!!!! I been waiting for u guys to do this episode. One of my favorite episodes
What do Kahless and SARS-CoV-2 have in common?
Both seemingly appeared in a cave.. but actually originated in a laboratory
But it was said Covid probably started with contaminated meat in a Chinese village. But what a strangely topical comparison to make. Your humor is odd.
@@MLBlue30 Is it so strange though when all the video thumbnails had masks on them? =) I figured I had a receptive audience. As to the cave thing, I was referring to the theory the virus came from bats and jumped to whatever meat was in that market
Awesome review. There are many double episodes.
Agree with Mac. I love the comedic stuff usually, even when it seems a bit too disrespectful of some great episodes. But then I’m a geek and these guys are genuinely watching from scratch 30 yrs later, so respect to them for that. Robert & Nick have such comedic timing and genuine buddy banter & observations that even when I’m feeling a bit hacked off at them, I just start laughing. I admit they sounded a bit more downbeat or serious during this one. And yep, it 100% made me miss the banter & mocking. But maybe it was a one-off? Maybe it was because this episode was effectively a Klingon version of the Resurrection of Jesus and they’re more religious than we thought and didn’t want to mock it? Or maybe they have some offscreen stuff going on this week that affected them? Or neither of those reasons. Either way i felt it was a spot on evaluation of a tough episode & I’m sure they’ll be back on normal laughing & upbeat form for the next one. I’ve literally binge-watched every review episode since finding them a few weeks ago and laugh out loud at every one. (And don’t forget they still have Sub-Rosa to come… ;)
One of my very favorite episodes despite it's flaws. I read the Kahless book back in high school. Good stuff.
Why can't modern Star Trek be more like this, in story telling.
Because good writing isn't encouraged in modern film and tv unfortunately.
why can't old Star Trek be more like this, in story telling?
In a lot of ways, this episode feels like a precursor to the DS9 episode “Once More Unto The Breach”, which is overall a much better episode about myths and tall tales.
Maybe they are saving Ardra's return for Picard Season 3
I’ve always been baffled what was the point of this Kahless storyline. Where were they going to go with this? It ends up just kinda sad and pathetic.
I have actually heard people say worf is the least interesting character on the show lol.
Warp 10.1 to 4k subscriptions
ENGAGE
Make it so.
I could never take Worf's commitment to being Klingon seriously, as he was raised by Earthlings.
7:20 According to Kierkegaard, faith does not have logic, reason, and rationality. Therefore, the definition of a leap of faith is a person having trust in something despite the lack of logic, reason, and rationality. There is no specific religious content in this case of data's leap of faith concerning being more than a machine; a leap of faith is ubiquitous appearing whenever an individual decides that their own rationality, logic or reason has failed and resorts to relying on dogma, chance, apathy or whatever behavior mitigates the anxiety of the unknown.
♥ Qapla!
What a cool episode
4K lets fuckin go
Lol you need to watch Season 4 of Deep Space Nine to find out about Gowron and the Klingons 😂
But kahless already returned a hundred years before this episode!
What church service is only an hour long? Duh🤪, Unitarian Universalist, & I started in 2012.
Kahless is Jesus. :D heh.
Worf as the show's most interesting character? I think the Klingons are interesting, Worf... not so much. He's a terrible father for one, even as a role model he is terrible. Most of the time he's on the bridge, he's like the other humans, and when he's with other Klingons, he sticks out due to his upbringing with humans. He's like the Wish version of a Klingon. He's there to suggest aggressive courses of action so that Picard looks like the more even keel officer by shutting his suggestions down. I enjoyed Worf episodes because they involved OTHER Klingons, not because I was excited to see Micheal Dorn take the lead in an episode.
As for the episode itself; TNG had this attitude that it needed to talk down religion as 'primitive belief systems', yet they encounter immortal beings like Q, Trelane, Nagilum, Douwd which they can't begin to explain. It's too bad that there was no arc here other than that the crew's criticism is proven to be right. This episode felt like it could have had great stakes, but it all unraveled when the monks revealed that he was a clone. After that, the episode loses all the wind in its sails. It's just another one-off character that hardly gets mentioned again.
C+
Just because they find powerful God like figures doesn't mean religion is any less bullshit. Most of these characters were just extremely advanced aliens that inspired worship or fear in primitive mortal species and their powers seemed supernatural or magic. We sure as hell know Picard didn't want anyone to go back to the dark ages of superstition and figuring out things the hard way.
Not a funny as usual. I'm going to give this review a C+. Good review quality but only a brief moment of the banter I came for.
I love the comedic stuff usually, even when it seems a bit too disrespectful of some great episodes. Robert & Nick have such comedic timing and genuine buddy banter that even when I’m feeling a bit hacked off at them, I just start laughing. I admit they sounded a bit more downbeat or serious during this one. And yep, it 100% made me miss the banter & mocking. But maybe it was a one-off? Maybe it was because this episode was effectively a Klingon version of the Resurrection of Jesus and they’re more religious than we thought and didn’t want to mock it? Or maybe they have some offscreen stuff going on this week that affected them? Either way I’m sure they’ll be back on normal form for the next one. I’ve literally binge-watched every review episode since finding them a few weeks ago and laugh out loud at every one. (And don’t t forget they still have Sub-Rosa to come… ;)
@@Shelsight yes I've seen every review they made about tng and some about other things.
Funny guys and posting *something* boosts then in the algorithm.
Good 1
I hate the end of this episode it seems so out of character for worf and klingons in general